How to increase water flow to Delta Universal MultiChoice Tub and Shower Valve Body
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- čas přidán 15. 09. 2017
- How to increase water flow to Delta Universal MultiChoice Tub and Shower Valve Body (R10000-UNBX) 13/14 series by modifying Delta Cartridge RP46074
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Thank you so much for your video. After spending hours cutting /sweating tubing, adjusting stringer, I finally got this installed with no leaks. I then put it into use and was very disappointed because of the very poor flow. I made your recommended changes and found much increased flow. Sad when you spend all this money and effort and have poor performance. Some of it was my fault too. When I removed the cartridge, I noticed that the cold water side was clogged with debris. RULE.... always flush your lines before installing cartridge.
ALSO I was so glad to see that Delta has not gotten rid of their famous seats and springs (you called them O rings). You can just replace those instead of replacing a whole cartridge.
Moen is ok but I seem to have to replace cartridge once a year or two. Delta faucet has worked for decades with no issue except a little lubing of the ball and seats now and then.
Blessings,
John 20:29
Great test of theory and may I say your math skills were spot on.
Thanks!
This video and the comments below helped me double the flow of my RP46463 cartridge (Delta 17 series trim). Thanks!
Thanks to this video I was able to execute this in 15 minutes. Thank you for doing the calculations on the drill bit size in advance
Great idea. Instead of drilling a larger hole, I used a set of miniature files to enlarge the holes to a “D” shape while leaving the internal o-ring fully supported. I’ve got even more flow than the enlarged hole you show in the video.
I did it your way. I also enlarged the holes in the plastic and the metal mixing valves in the middle. Good tip!
Darn I like to see a vid how that was done. Smart man
Thank you for this video. Just upgraded my whole shower with a 6 way valve and a delta 17 series cartridge that's very similar to this one. To say I was severely disappointed in the water pressure for my shower head was an understatement as I had used it before the renovation and it felt like a torrent. Using the file method mentioned in the comments to shape the output in the shape of a "D" greatly helped water output on the 17 series cartridge.
While it's still not as good as the original valve I suspect there are limitations in other areas. My current largest restriction I suspect is now in 6 way valve rough in body because it has 3 smaller 5/32 inlet holes that feed roughly a 1/4 holes to the various shower heads but the idea of modifying the rough in valve that is already installed and tiled and messing up would be extremely costly/time consuming as potentially replacing the rough in valve would mean another new shower
The other restriction I see is in the on/off stainless plate for the 17 series cartridge but the problem is with that it's stainless (hard to drill) and the holes are with the cartridge so you are going to miss drill
Very helpful. I actually only needed to replace the top portion so it was even easier.
Great how-to video! We can now fill up the bathtub before the water gets cold :-)
What a great video guy. (I love the kids in the background.. they make this real.). Very informative, very quick… you saved the day! Thank you!
GOODLUC2U
Awesome! This worked for me! Thank you for the explanation.
Thanks for this video. Just installed a new delta tub/shower faucet set and was so disappointed with the lower water flow. Going to do this mod so I can have better showers.
I did this for a Delta diverter cartridge for a shower head it increased the flow thanks for the video
Hey Sal, how did you mod the diverter cartridge? I did this mod on my trinsic series 14 cartridge but it doesnt seem to increase flow, I think the diverter is limiting the flow now. Cant find anything on increasing flow thru a 3-setting diverter
@@jeffroyal2901 I drilled holes in the cartridge insert as per the video I watched, it increased it hope that helps
Great Tip! Just did this with my new install and definitely helped :)
Thanks. It works great.
Girlfriend and I just moved into a new place where the mains pressure is 38PSI. I'm super neurotic about water pressure and this had me losing my absolute shit wondering if we could get a pump installed fighting with the landlord or maybe even move house after less than a week. Then I stumbled upon the fact that our unrestricted sink has more flow than our shower by about 2x and came to the cartridge conclusion.
Sir, I think you may have just saved both of our asses a *lot* of headache. Can't wait to report back.
Awesome, I am going to try this.
So glad I looked this up! I have a MTI therapy tub “jacuzzi” ( I have a separate shower ) and I usually use Delta mixing values on my projects. I had this conversation with delta years ago and of course they told me there was nothing I could do ( they are not going to tell me to drill out the cartridge lol ) but I had thought of it but wasn’t sure how to go about it! I have a “virtual” spout that allows up to 20gal per minute and a cartridge rated at 1.8?. Never occurred to me at the design faze that this was bad math! I will be manipulating one of the extra cartridges I have for this!! Thank you (thinking I’m going to file the d shape for maximum flow)
Thanks hugely. I was having trouble putting the cartridge back in I saw you twist it and that saved me Yaaa.....!
Thank you Thank you Thank you!
I did all this and it made a small difference but not enough. Ditched this cartridge and bought a 1300 series non-pressure balanced one (Delta Faucet RP73598 1300 Series Non-Pressure Balance Cartridge. $25)). Had to forgo the separate temp and pressure adjustment and also had to buy a new trim kit ($25 ebay). Now this thing rocks. Fills the tub in half the time as the drilled out one. Could possibly scald you if your plumbing sucks but that is how things used to be anyway until the Govt. got involved!
Can you share the list of pat numbers please
? I am in the same boat.
what is the delta trim kit number? did the non pressure balanced cartridge fit right in place of the pressure balanced cartridge? i can pee more water than those things put out.
@@pl747 read my post
sorry, i thought you mean cartridge. Any of the more recent ones that do not have separate pressure and temperature control
Rob, I’m going to try . Thanks for that! So right, govt cutting down my pressure and hot water! Like to shove a Tesla where the sun don’t shine! 😂
Good job, thank you
Chris, I performed the same surgery on a Delta RP46463. It flowed 1.4 gem before and 2 gem after surgery. Sure would like to have your 5 gem for my wife’s tub. Oh well. I’ll try going a little larger diameter with a spare cartridge and see what happens. Gary
This is a water saving method required by law there is also on the shower head a small O ring that restricts water but delta is not alone in this or the worse.
The worse is Price Pfister there is barely any water coming out of the shower head.
To double the area of the circle, you just multiply the diameter by square root of 2 = 1.414. Since you went from 5/32 to 13/64, you multiplied the diameter by 1.3, which increases the area by 69% (1.3 squared is 1.69). I will do the same with my cartridge.
Spherical volume is a cubic function (corrected 4/3 Pi R **3) - increase the radius by 10%, the volume doubles. If an obese person resembles a sphere - that is why weight gain is so hard to recognise - small change is waist, huge mass change
@@zipzippery Yes, sphere volume is cubic (4/3 Pi R^3) but disk area is the relevant quantity in this video. The cube root of 2 is approx 1.26, so increasing the radius by 26% doubles the volume.
@@Clarionetist yes, you were working with a squared function for area and I couldn't resist throwing in the effects of a cubic function for volume (and it is 4/3 not 2/3.. my mistake)
I drilled out both sides to get equal control of hot and cold water.
thanks
Just installed a new faucet - My wife was really upset with the water flow - this should do the trick - Happy Wife Happy Life - as they say
I have the same question as DRIZCOL. one side or both.???
I was very nervous about drilling holes in my brand new cartridge but afterward, I can't see even a hint of the o-rings and there are no leaks. I haven't tried to fill the tub as I haven't finished installing the hardy backer and tile, but I'm pretty happy with the mod so far.
glad to hear it, been living with mine for quite some time... no problems
For those who cant seem to refrain from commenting that i showed the whole time it takes to fill a bucket before and after cartridge modification, i would like to say that there has been many a video posted on youtube that has been "edited" to save time but only to falsely show a claim of success because they "cut out" the failure on the video... if you cant seem to figure out how to speed up your playback, dont comment on the video leaving nothing out. thank you.
I agree with you. Great video. Thank you!
Good point and great video. Making videos isn't easy, and there are an infinite number of critics. That said, I don't think you actually showed the water level after the 1st fill. We took your word for it that it was half full. I don't have a problem with that. Just saying... :)
@@murky2502 True, i didnt SHOW the actual height on before fill, but it can be seen that it is nowhere near the top of bucket (so at least 3 to 4 inches down) i guess you will have to take my word for it, or read others responses after they also did this modification. Thanks for watching and keeping me true.
Exactly !
On the new blue ones I was able to drill to 1/3 inch hole on both sides and that was the limit of the oring being able to seat still barely by guiding it in with a screwdriver. That oring doesn’t really matter I don’t think since it just prevents water from bypassing the tube core thing. I also enlarged half the holes of the metal core with a step drill bit. I’m back to my shower head being the limit. Oh and I couldn’t figure out how to remove the clear back flow cap things so I just cut the spokes out and pulled the rubber bits out.
This guy figured out the real fix.
czcams.com/video/NHH_yD_OQZw/video.html
czcams.com/video/u3ZIeydRWMs/video.html
What can I do to one of my delta shower just like this exactly but I have no flow at all should I follow your steps like this magic you just perform thank you sir looking forward to your advice
hmm.. if you have NO flow at all.. you either have not turned your back water on, or an installation error. Or possibly you didnt clear the line out before installation and it now has plugged your valve. easy test. disassemble your valve removing the cartridge. With out cartridge in slowly turn water back on to see if water comes into housing. if yes, then something is wrong with cartridge or its installation.
having an issue with the delta trim kit matching the minium 5.5 Noritz EV40 tankless requirement
FYI to resurrect an old topic Ace replacement cartridge 4563730 has the holes enlarged in a "D" shape for those hesitant to drill a Delta out. I haven't tried it yet but if it doesn't work I will edit this post to correct the info.
Awesome, thanks for letting everybody know!
Does Ace have a cartridge that works in the Delta shower faucets?
I actually looked it up and saw that they do indeed make a replacement cartridge....and it's much cheaper than the Delta cartridge. I keep having problems with the Delta ones being hit-or-miss with the mixing valve working properly. It's nice to know I have other options to try if need be...and a cheaper option at that. Thanks for mentioning this aftermarket cartridge.
Elongating as opposed to enlarging the hole supports the flow more effectively. Also adding extra holes to the narrowest two rings on the plastic insert makes a dramatic difference.
Question when elongating the Im assuming not towards the center of the plastic insert is that correct thanks
@@saltags5500 yes, that is correct. You're limited to the width of the diverter ring cutouts.
What Narrow rings not the plastic insert are you referring to?
It's been a while but if you pull everything apart, you'll see a metal internal diverter that slides from side to side based on, assumed, pressure differences.
Shady that’s what I thought you meant but wanted to make sure! Thank you sir!!!
Question for you - will that increase the volume going to the shower head as well?
yes, the diverter is past the cartridge, so it literally diverts the water from the tub to the shower head. now your bottle neck is the shower head.
Thanks for asking this question
Plus I only drilled out 1 side. I’ll go back and drill out the other side now and compare.
Great idea. But when you increase the hole just for cold water supply, you change the hot water mixing ratio. After this modification, You will not be able to take a hot shower as before! Shouldn’t the hole size be enlarged for both hot and cold sides?
yes, both were enlarged.
Have you try the shower head? I think it make no difference on shower head because delta has its tiny hole in their brass valve body where water goes up to shower head after it pass the catridge.
The shower head has its own restriction, so it made no difference for that... this was strictly for increased flow to the tub faucet.
CURSES!! I was seriously reading last comment before going to the garage to drill this...and I learn it's just for tub. 😖😫
Even though it would be more work, if you have shower only, you can get a high flow valve which is what i did. delta r10000-unbxhf is a shower only high flow valve body@@brianolson3988
@@brianolson3988 Remove the FLOW RESTRICTOR from the shower head. Search it on YT. Immediate fix.
That’s a brilliant idea but those hole’s changes all the temperature ratios of the spool safety vibrations and other features the cartridge offers
Thank you for showing how to resist the water fascists
Its not that i'm against saving water, i am. But it is that your GOING to fill your tub to the level you want....Why should i have to wait. The real restriction is at the shower head, as it should be.
Just drilled out my cartridge and basically got double the flow which gives me 4 gallon per minute, the minimum required for a bathtub. The problem is in the valve body design as I see it as well. The top of the valve body has what looks like a permanent tube installed that extends into the valve body and blocks the flow from the cartridge to both the shower and the tub. If I could cut that little tube inside the valve body out, I could double the flow again. Not a very good design as I see it. I have had nothing but trouble with Delta valves.
I need to try this on my delta T17238 faucet. You only showed drilling the one hole. Do you drill one hole in each of the two pieces?
Hot / Cold balance.. so yes.
boss thanks for doing this does it speed up the shower?
most likely not, it has its own restriction
Thinking out loud here. If you are not really worried about tub flow rate and wanted the shower flow rate increased could you turn the valve upside down (new construction) and use the tub outlet for the shower and get a higher flow that way? Would this reverse the handle or anything?
uh, all the water goes thru this valve. whether its for the tub or shower head... a diverter, usually in the tub faucet will redirect the water to the shower head. so, if there is a lack of flow in your shower head, then the problem is in the shower head. same amount of water will flow to each.
@@chriscastelein2260 I was just referring to some of the posts below that said that this modification would increase flow to the tub but not the shower. So I was asking if you thought making this modification and then mounting the valve upside down would increase the flow to the shower instead. I would assume it would but I would be concerned with if the handle would then be upside down? Thoughts?
THanks
@@caseyspradlin4653 haha know all that would happen would be that the hot and cold are reversed the shower handle live install the same way right would be hot left would be called opposite of what it normally is..
@@caseyspradlin4653 The shower head has its own flow restrictor behind the filter screen. Remove that and you'll have great flow. Search it on YT. There are at least 10 videos showing how to.
I was so disappointed when I bought a delta valve that controls the volume /h&c separately only to find out the cartridge is restricted?!. So stupid. Thanks for this I'm going to drill out both the hot and cold. I would drill it out with a 3/8 but the stupid o ring is in the way.
czcams.com/video/u3ZIeydRWMs/video.html
Installed a new Delta multichoice in my tub, i swear it fills twice as slow now
out of the box, unmodified?
@@chriscastelein2260 yes, well maybe not 2x slower but like 1.5 or so the old one was a moen. I installed an entirely new Delta rough-in and cartridge. Definitely seems to fill the tub slower. The old moen was 18 years old, maybe before any new "regulations" came into effect lol.
@@researchandbuild1751 well yes, thats the reason for this post. If its the same make try my modifications and let all know your results.
Here's a question. I know the metal mixing valve is there to guard against scalding when the pressure changes unexpectedly, but is it essential? Would removing it, along with slightly enlarging the holes in the plastic portion of the mixing valve, increase the flow rate even further? Or is it a bad idea? And, if it is a bad idea, why? Any responses would be appreciated soon, as I've already bought a second cartridge and modified it. All that's left to do is reassemble it and swap it in. Thanks.
Honestly i dont know. If you have a modified second cartridge it wouldn't take much to try it out and use if for awhile. if you do, reply back on your findings.
@@chriscastelein2260 - I guess my question is, does that metal piece perform any sort of essential separation function in addition to regulating the mix? Is it somehow keeping incoming flow away from outgoing flow? I live in an apartment; so I don't want to try anything potentially damaging. Also, shutting off the water to the building multiple times is a bit more problematic than it would be if I lived in a house.
And thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
@@sklarini well, first if this is a rental apartment i would not do this. second im not a plumber or the engineer who designed it, i would say yes, it does prevent "back flow" into the opposite water supply (ie cold into hot, and hot into cold) so i would recommend leaving it in, tho you might be able to drill it out more for more flow...tho i think what ive shown is plenty.
@@chriscastelein2260 - Just swapped the valves. I'm now the proud owner of a Silkwood shower. Thanks!
I know this is older video but hoping someone can answer...Once I enlarge the 2 holes to get more flow I will still have a flow problem at my shower head because those also have flow restricters correct?
Correct... that's a whole other issue.
@@chriscastelein2260 Dang... Thanks for the quick answer
@@craig156 Tho recently i did modify my shower head restriction washer, i went pretty big on it and now have WAY to much water flow... so a little goes along way.. so start very small and test as you go, until you get it right where you want it.... otherwise you cant go back :(
The older carts dont have a round hole but a half moon. I enlarged the hole then made a half moon shape with smaller bit. Why they have to do this makes me angry. I prefer to take 5 min showers vs 10 minute showers. Water use is same.
*Seems like this would make your water bill go up if taking showers all the time. Is this true?*
no, the shower head has its own restriction, which i have not touched... this only affects the tub fill rate.
@@chriscastelein2260 *That's what I thought as well, just wanted to confirm. Thanks for the awesome vid and your response.*
How would I increase the flow rate for R22000? We live in the country and are on a well. Our water pressure already limits the water flow enough.
im not familiar with that model, and the number you gave was just the manifold, not the cartridge. if it uses the same cartridge as mine then this video is for you.
A 22000 is the same cartridge unless you have a 1700 series(different temperature control). In either case, your problem is with the shower head and handheld water restrictors. Look inside and see the tiny o - ring in the center of the blue plastic restrictor. Try removing just the o ring first and retest your water pressure. Usually, this helps. If not, screw a drywall screw into the center of the blue restrictor and pull it out with needle nose pliers. Once the full blue plastic restrictor is out, there's no fix if you have too much pressure. So, use caution.
- plumber
Need help! I installed new rough in valve in my house and no now there's no hot water. What I did wrong? Probably hot and cold water mix in the valve. How can I fix it?
wow, alot to process there... your going to have to get waaay specific on what you did... lots of unknowns. like.. A) all new plumbing in house? B)did you clear the line before valve installed? C) is there hot water at all coming to the houseing? D)did you install same valve body as shown? E)did you drill exactly as shown? F)is there hot water even availble? ie no water heater? not sure how much of a help i can be, but i'll try.
@@chriscastelein2260 Thank you sir! I just made a stupid mistake for beginners. I forgot to put a cartridge in the valve so hot and cold water were mixed.
@@Alex-pj6tc Well good to hear it was a simple fix.
Can I do the same with T17 cartridges too? They have 2 separate handle for temp and pressure.
I am unfamiliar with this cartridge, and it may be possible... having said that, judging by the reviews on deltas website, www.deltafaucet.com/parts/product/RP46463.html#reviews , it looks like you should stay away from this cartridge... just my opinion.
You drilled out both sides correct?
correct
How much of a change did you notice at the shower head?
None really, maybe a little more. But the shower head has its own restrictors.
How does this affect the pressure in the shower head?
Can only assume it increases the shower head pressure, but it really depends on your setup... Most shower heads are restricted by default, and if so, wont see any change. Mine was unaffected.
The fact is that my shower head has no pressure limit, and the original cartridge that came with the new faucet gave more pressure than the new cartridge that I changed a week ago
How much pressure do you have in your water line ?
i had city water, so it was 12gpm
how you get it out mine won't budge
Do you have the valve shown in the video? if so, look around the 7 min mark in video you will notice a retaining ring. remove this. then wiggle valve and pull out.. its only an o-ring that seals it. Hope that helps.
you'd done your math calculation... LOL, where Einstein when I need him?
I must be missing something. I followed the steps, drilled a 13/64 hole in one side and only get about a 1/2" more water in my bucket (5 gal.) than I did before drilling. Is there some step I missed? I will try drilling out the other side of the cartridge but I don't think it will make that much of a difference. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
yes, i drilled out both sides, but you should have had more water than that....look to see if your tub spout has an aereator or restriction..
@@chriscastelein2260 Thank you so much for your video. I was hoping you'd see my post. Here's an update. I missed that you did both sides (duh) so I only did one. Measured the amount and it was minimal. However, today I shut off the water, etc. and drilled the other side, not thinking it would make much of a difference. Man, was I wrong! Tested the flow and doubled the output. Btw this was on a new valve/cartridge. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I was very concerned about the flow and surely didn't want to have to change out the whole valve, etc. Now, I have a great flow. Thanks a ton! I appreciate your video and you taking the time to do it. Oh, and don't sweat those who complain that you showed the whole bucket filling, that can be easily skipped if so desired. I appreciate your endeavor to show the whole process.
Always use plumbers grease on o-rings
Good to know, thanks
drill both side or just the cold??????????
Here is the REAL FIX. I drilled and it didn't fix the problem. Drilling the metal tube totally fixes the problem, but pay attention when the guy in the video tells you to go easy and be careful. Every one in the thread says that it fixed their flow problem. I suffered for years and then found this. czcams.com/video/u3ZIeydRWMs/video.html
Your test is skewed! The benchmark test, you flipped it over to hot only. The after mod test went all left and then back to the center. You have much more volume in the middle than you do from either side!
Good catch. since i cant test it correctly with the original catridge, the only way is to retest the modified cartridge at this setting... if i get around to it, i'll let you know.
Unless his hot water supply is badly constricted, it probably doesnt matter, though for the sake of consistency you're right.
Interesting, but for me I guess this is a dead end. Delta supposedly does have a valve/cartridge that will do 8.6 GPM. Haven't looked into that too much yet I'd like to get over 10. There are higher flowing valves with built in thermostatic control but they are freaking expensive. I guess I'll just have to talk to a building inspector and see if an external thermostatic mixing valve with an old fashion 2 handle valve will work as that should flow at least 10 GPM.
Delta has a high flow cartridge without a thermostatic balancing spool that will give you 10+. I believe it will give you 13+ with the assumption that your plumbing is proper.
The thermostatic balancing valve isn't as important for tub fillers, but if you use the same valve for a shower, install an aftermarket balancing valve if you have children in the house. Delta has been the best valve on the market for many years. So changing manufacturers isn't recommended.
- plumber
@@mikerichardson5593 I ended up going with a Kohler valve that can do around 10 GPM. I was considering non pressure balancing/thermostatic valves and placing in a separate thermostatic mixer, which if I am interpreting code correctly is fine for a tub filler(this does have to be inspected) but I decided against it. The cost was going to be about the same and using a valve with a thermostatic cartridge is just a bit less work.
Just tried this, it made no difference to flow. Same valve cartridge as in the video.
sounds like there might be a restriction at the the tub faucet.. have you looked that and the supply pipe to it? ... and i assume you are on city water... and not looking at a shower flow of water...
czcams.com/video/u3ZIeydRWMs/video.html
Hi
I had the flow so low, .6 or less that the hot water heater would not function prperly and the shower was little more than a spritz. I did some of the same things and was only able to get to .8 GPM. This valve is pure crap.
that sounds like you have something else going on... id try, shut off water, pull out valve, turn water on 1 second, then shut off water and re-install valve. sounds like you have debris in your line.
For some reason this made no difference at all in my Delta multi valve.🤷♂️
Make sure there is no other restriction on your tub faucet, like a screen. otherwise im not sure what could be restricting it.
This didn't make a difference for me. May look to see if this is the fix however - czcams.com/video/NHH_yD_OQZw/video.html
I F'n hate these people who do this. Shower i had installed absolutely SUCKS!! It's a stupid DELTA. I Really hop its the shower head and not the stupid valve...
Auto correct. Geez Gallons Per Minute
Sort the comments by New and see my document regarding increasing the flow of the RP46463. Did you perform a test without the cartridge? What is your GPM without it?
That tile job is horrible
I will never get that two minutes of watching water run back. Too bad there's not something like video editing that could have cut that out. Now I have to pee!
This idea is useless because the tub spout has an aerator that controls gallons per minute. The shower head also has a design to limit water flow. All he had to do was take out the aerator and water will gush out to the tub. Delta designed the valve for safety. Drilling holes just defeats all the work engineers did to make the valve work. This also voids the lifetime warranty. What's the use spending 50 to 70 dollars just to ruin the valve? Better off just jumping into a lake and taking a bath.
My tub spout does not have an aerator.
He stated that he intended to increase the flow of water into his bathtub, not his shower head.
Delta designed the valve to comply with regulations.
Voids lifetime warranty? Just buy a new valve for less than $100 if something goes wrong. Pocket change when it comes to home ownership.
What does bathing in a lake have to do with anything presented in this video?