Why Student Debt Is So Hard to Forgive
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Americans are currently burdened with about 1.57 trillion dollars of student debt, and that number is climbing rapidly. For many, a lifetime of debt has become the painful reality of life in the United States. Why? What happened to make this country, and this economic system, so addicted to debt?
Why Student Debt Is So Hard to Forgive - Second Thought
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Citations and Further Reading:
Graeber
warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/englis...
• Debt: The First 5,000 ...
alexdanco.com/2020/05/15/debt...
johnathanbi.com/book-notes-su...
longnow.org/ideas/02010/04/22...
patternwhichconnects.com/blog...
Lazzarato
doi.org/10.1177/0038038514539207
irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/30123...
www.theoryculturesociety.org/...
Others
• David Harvey on Why Ev...
www.jacobinmag.com/2020/09/ca...
www.academia.edu/23770832/Deb...
doi.org/10.1177/0161468121123... www.researchgate.net/publicat...
books.google.com/books?id=swx...
doi.org/10.1177/2631309X20921567
marshallsteinbaum.org/assets/...
Higher Ed. & Student Loans
www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...
• Why American College I...
educationdata.org/student-loa...
educationdata.org/average-cos...
• #CancelStudentDebt - W...
time.com/4276222/free-college/
theintercept.com/2021/08/05/s...
newrepublic.com/article/15923...
www.peoplesworld.org/article/...
• Student Loans | Patrio...
thehill.com/opinion/education...
jacobinmag.com/2020/11/cancel...
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Been having fun listening. I have a 1.5-2 hour drive to school and am thankful for the company.
When will we start the socialist revolution?!
I love the podcast so far but i kinda wish i had more to listen to. Do you know any other good leftist podcats we might enjoy? So far all ive been introduced to is yours as well as economic update with richard wolff
true
JT, do you think the capitalist class consciously uses tools like comfort and distraction to pacify the working class? If so, how and why? Maybe a Deprogram topic.
I love how in some countries like Denmark college is not only free, but students get paid. Crazy idea, right? It's almost like education should be encouraged and students should be supported. It's almost like college should be for people with ambitions and skills, not just for rich people. But I digress...
I'm from Finland, and it's that way for us too. I was from a lower middle-class family, and might not have been able to go to university if it had been as expensive as it is in the US. But in Finland, it's free and the government pays a small amount to the students to help out with living costs. Naturally, you pay it back in the taxes, but it's not a problem and you still don't have to worry about being in debt.
Same with Greece, but you have to pay for community college and it's really cheap + they pay you for practical events after passing all subjects of your course so you can gain experience and find a job easier afterwards. To graduate university you need to have good grades in high school, but university is free. In university the system still sucks here, because professors don't give a fuck about you + everyone are passing their subjects through youtube instead of attending the lectures. Professors don't know how to teach
@Zaydan Naufal Even "sinister" leaders around the world usually have common sense when it comes to providing mass education. The US is a backward corporate oligarchy.
@@LiiMuRi Yeah, that's what I mean. And it probably produces more well-educated students, you don't need to work long hours to support yourself, so that means you have more time and energy to study
@@NikosM112 Kinda the same in Bulgaria, my country, but with very pathetic payments
It’s like what Yaris Varoufakis said in an interview yesterday. “Capitalism without debt is like Christianity without hell.”
That was a great interview, love Yaris
Thank you for this gem. It offers a level of clarity that many articles I've read don't.
Hate to be that guys but ... you got a link?
@@jwddwj9 czcams.com/video/zu0lNnXAiL0/video.html
Hope I sent it correctly.
I saw that. Very repeatable!
Imagine having politicians that actually kept their promises.
Imagine a civilization that actually knew that the elites are ruling things and not always politicians and that the system is rigged from the start and not consuming the blue pill 24/7 like there's no tomorrow
@@NikosM112 lmao, love that matrix reference
*Time to fly*
Im sorry, my imagination has limits
Oh, politicians do keep their promises.
Just not to us regular citizens.
If it actually benefits them, they will actually keep them, but we all know that under capitalism is not going to happen.
It'd be nice to get educated without having crippling debt.
Like 99% of other countries
It is!
@@TheJester-ct5pi Do you understand that if everyone was to follow your advice it would stop working immediately? The "solutions" you offer are not resolving anything. Also nice of you to assume the worst of your fellows - "either you are doing what I say, or you're just lazy and probably don't care anyway"
@@TheJester-ct5pi And why is having fun while you're going to college suddenly not allowed? And there shouldn't be this many roadblocks for someone to get an education regardless, trade school or not. Working part time to save money to go to school? Good luck, working part time wont get them anywhere near to go to school and you still dont get insurance working part time. Also baiting people to join the military just to go to school is bullshit too,and would end up in a position they didn't want to be in at the end of it. You're generalization and assumptions are really smooth-brained amigo.
You can easily get educated entirely through the internet without debt. What I think you mean is it would nice to be credentialed without going into debt.
The most disgusting thing I learned during securities licensing was that we have entire federal agencies dedicated to buying up mortgages and loans, then selling them off similar to bonds. So some rich person is likely making money off of us paying our debts, but not too slowly or too quickly tho.
just learning about trading, etfs and bonds, and when learning about my mortgage and student loans, thats when I knew just how upside down our system is and why I didn't believe in them paying back student loans...
but then c-19 happen and more economic history lesson and realize, they can pay some if not all back, but have not incentive nor desire to do so.
My mortgage company said we can't refinance, to pay less each month, because we don't make enough.
GSEs the game changer no one is talking about, the real fucked up part is when you see that the FED is the ones buying those up to use as collateral against the dollar, then lending those dollars back to us lol
People and institutions trading your mortgage has literally zero impact on how quickly you pay it off.
Find another lender, there’re literally dozens of them
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you're right! If you are unfamiliar with the market, I recommend seeking advice or assistance from a financial coach. With the help of an investment advisor, I have diversified my $450,000 portfolio across multiple markets, We were able to generate over $1.2 million in net income from seasonally high-dividend stocks, ETFs and bonds. For me, this is the most ideal way to enter the market these days.
I just started a few months back, I'm going for long term, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, who’s this advisor you work with?
Julia Ann Finnicum”is my adviser and she is highly qualified and experienced in the financial market. She has extensive knowledge of portfolio diversity and is considered an expert in the field. I recommend researching her credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.
When all a person has ever known is low wage work, there is no way to borrow from your rent or grocery fund to purchase in any type of investmegnt opportunity. That is the whole point of these videos, no?
*if you’re fortunate enough to save
It is a truly unique American experience, that the biggest 3 problems in your life financially, are often times not a big issue elsewhere. Healthcare, education, housing.
Capitalism sucks. American capitalism is pure hell
@HistorySurgeon I agree.
Transportation should probably be included as well. The single biggest expense in my budget is the cost of driving my car
@@Idf.explained You sound poor.
What country would you recommend moving too?
I love having people gaslight me into thinking yearly tuition increases are just part of running a state university 😂
It'd be one thing I'd they did it occasionally to adjust for inflation but yeah
Demon seeds is what they are, because not one University can give a reasonable answer for why they do it EVERY.SINGLE.YEAR!
ursury is a sin.
Yearly tuition increases are part and parcel of running any university.
all jokes aside, you can thank post-subsidy cost shifting for the constant tuition increases every year.
These days we don't focus on cost reduction, we focus on shoving more money into an already broken system. That's the problem.
They have to pay all of these new adminstration peons who happened to be related to the executive officers..
Also, they kinda like investing the money into stocks, even when they don't always get a payoff
I think I learned at a young age how bullshit student loans were when I realized my mom who’s over 40 with a job that pays 6 figures still pays student loans to this day. And she graduated college with a 4 year degree in 2001.
My kids are college age now. My student debt has had a huge impact on all of us. Both of my kids are terrified of accruing any debt. We were very poor, and couldn't afford most things when they were young.
One is at university on a full scholarship, but still has to work a lot. The other one is very intelligent, but probably won't ever go to college because his high school grades weren't good enough for getting scholarships. Sixty years ago, he would have been able to go anyway.
mom and my sister split 50/50 on her debt. my tia JUST finished her debt pays from...the 90s maybe?
@@flash_flood_area and let me guess you have never concidered to demonstrate and think in the next 4 years you can change everything by voting 1 of 2 preselected multimillionares that hangs on the tits of the elite? its actually funny to see how many americans complain under such videos or tell their sad little stories but at the same time i never see any demonstrations, no uprisings, no complains except when its time to vote then they swarm to their preferred candidate and act like he is jesus himself and will personallly solve every issue.
@@klauskinski5969 Idiot. And I can't believe I'm saying that to one of my favorite actors. However, as someone who definitely does not have any belief in this American electoral system, I'm telling you to stuff it, Klaus. I assume you had plenty of practice while filming Les Fruits de la Passion.
@@flash_flood_area ah yes i understand reality is hard to understand, thats why you continue doing what us-population does since the 80s...voting every 4 years for the next guy promising stuff and never deliever and 4 years later change the next one.
i guess MLK was a idiot going into the streets instead just voting or running for office himself.
Debt is a means of control. Specifically the control of students futures. Many people are understanding how much of a shitshow capitalism is, but can't get out, because they are controlled by their loans. Also, for every debtor, there is a creditor. Since neoliberalism started, debt has reached almost every corner of society, and the main means of profit nowadays isn't production, nor even consumption, but debt fueled growth. Debt is a means of enslavement. And as the late great Frederick Douglass said, knowledge makes a man unfit to be a slave.
they really aren't, aside from IRS being a literal mafia for not paying it... once I'm dead I owe nothing to them, it's bullshit.
Or just a way to earn money. It is not as exciting to be ripped of as the possibility of an „enslavement“.
The answer was in the video right there at the end. For intangible things like education, when people simply refuse to pay, there really is nothing that the so-called creditor can do.
Access to Capital is the key to the game. So take a lesson from those with that access. If they can garnish your wages, make sure you have insufficient wages for them to bother. If they can take your stuff, make sure you don't have enough stuff or good enough stuff to justify their taking it.
If you're driving the really cool car, does it really matter who owns the car? If you get to live in the big house on the hill does it matter whether you own the house or your company owns the house? They've spent decades creating a legal system in which companies have superior rights to people, so become a company.
So true the extirpation and annihilation of these continents was much more so driven by the fear of debtors prison than the weird racial/psychopathic dimensions, although those were CERTAINLY present, they were mostly an afterthought until the 1800s when they became calcified into the thinking. I wish the people who get all defensive about America and their whiteness would understand this but while talking race is a no-no, talking capitalism is straight up not even in the spectrum of language-thought for most people. Like racism is legitimately a mistake that can be walked back, it's unfortunate that it's the DNA of America but it's really just a pretext to the much larger system which makes commodities out of EVERY resource, including human beings. At the end of the day..
@@tonywords6713 yes. slavery was an economic phenomenon, not a racial one. what trips people up, is that it was always one "Race" enslaving another to do their bidding on the justification of race. but it was always about the second part, and not necessarily the first.
I’m not against so called “useless degrees” as much as I am opposed to why college is prohibitively expensive for so many people and can trap people in debt. In fact “useless degrees” are a symptom of the commodification of higher education, which is why some people think college is a “scam”. Higher education however, can still be quite useful as it expands your intellectual repertoire. I think for better education in the United States, subsidized college costs would be greatly beneficial as most jobs require education beyond high school to even compete in the economy.
What degrees are considered useless? I am curious.
Exactly. A lot of degrees considered useless by some are just an example of what universities were originally meant to be: a place for pure knowledge. I'm an arts student so I've experienced and seen both sides of the debate
The more you learn about the USA education the more you see it less about education are more about a profit if it wasn't for the fact they sell education I don't think you get educated at all in those schools, it is also bad education because that part is not important really.
No degrees are actually useless, just that some are in more or less market demands than the other. STEM careers would become "useless" as well if there are too many people studying it. of course, this is in a capitalist framework, ideally, many jobs shouldn't require a degree and it shouldn't be commodified in the first place. For example, why do many employers wanted an artist with an art degree when they already have skill they're looking for? It doesn't matter where you get that skill from. Only jobs that required a lot of supervision and/or where a mistake could cause harm like medicine need a formal education. Don't blame students from choosing less-marketable degree, blame it on the economy that commodified degrees in the first place.
Trade school seems to be gaining in appreciation as an alternative to formal college education its hard to know what trade or education will be marketable also some fields like medicine don't scale to trade school degrees although you could get some background in nursing there are just too many unknowns out there.
The richest people in the world had their tax evasion schemes exposed (in part of course) recently.
It turned out that they would take out big loans guaranteed by their stocks and live off that money instead of selling their stocks.
In turn writing that debt off on their taxes meaning they paid very little, if any, tax to the government on their wealth.
It is another example of the structures that harm those on the bottom being used by those on top for their advantage.
Do you have the link to an article about that? I want to read more about it in detail.
@@zZGzHD It was a ProPublica article, but @Second Thought has another video titled "How Billionaires Pay Less in Taxes Than You" where he talks about it. The link to the ProPublica article is in his video description.
The more money you have, the easier it is to get money.
It is BY DESIGN.
Is 11 billion dollar "very little" in your mind? Because that's what Elon Musk will pay in taxes this year with the scheme of borrowing against his stocks.
I managed to live debt free thanks to the US military, but I don't know if I consider that a winning move. It kinda sucks that I have to sell my soul to a corrupt bully just to avoid having crippling debt and having a half decent standard of living.
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c dude calm down. Some of us literally don't have a choice. Governments put us against eachother and it makes us go for each other's throats rather than who's at fault. We are all just trying to survive.
I'm glad that at least you're not trying to promote the recruitment. Imagine parents paying taxes while raising their children, only for them to ended up being left with no choices but to participate in an illegitimate war.
@@mickeyg7219 I enlisted but left before shipping. It was either marines or I move out so I moved out. I would never promote that garbage, not after having it shoved down my throat my whole life💀. I just want people to understand that a lot of people who join do it out of desperation or lack of choice.
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c I'm so sorry. I never ended up over there but when I signed up, it was peacetime and I was genuinely doing it purely for the college money (that was already a big deal in 2001) and so I could live on a boat. It's fucked up, though, and I was naive as hell. I was seventeen and still bought the ads on TV and the heroic movie soldiers hook, line, and sinker. They legit change you in there. I did some pretty rough things to my own shipmates just to get them in line so we wouldn't all be punished and was rewarded for it. I didn't noticed how much I had changed until I was out again but I'm a meaner, guiltier person since I was in there. Haven't been able to look at the military the same, since. Knowing that people who were broken down and built up into drones, or people who were already assholes were built into sociopaths, fucks me up a lot. 2001 happened the same year I joined and I know that many of the people who were sent had no business being given a gun and power over people's lives and we had no business being over there again, in the first place. I'm genuinely sorry.
For what it's worth, I will never stop talking against our military and military strategy. It literally hurts *everyone* whether we're talking about people in other countries or our own. Fewer people become absolutely enraged when I say this than used to, so it feels like progress. People from the US used to mostly believe in our military's innate goodness but that's changing because we see and hear from people like you now that the internet is ubiquitous. Hopefully, I'm helping change some minds too.
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c I am pretty sure Arabs in the Middle East have been living with war and devastation long before the US even existed. Nice try though guy.
I graduated from college 3 years ago, but still owe tens of thousands in debt, I've lost 2 jobs during this pandemic, and rent for most places is almost what I pay in student loans a month so I can't afford to move out on my own. I would love to be a more active member of the U.S. economy if I could afford to do so without so much substantial student loan debt. Even if I only had 10% of my student loans forgiven that's still roughly 8 grand I don't have to worry about having to try to pay on time every month anymore.
I swear I see on all progressive CZcams channels from tyt to jimmy Dore 😂
I recommend Jackson Hinkle
That's terrible, it took me 6 years to pay off my loans, and I basically had to put my entire life on hold until I could pay my 56K in student loan down to a reasonable place. I was incredibly lucky to have networked with a few people that worked out to be good connections, not everyone gets this luxury. I know a lot of people that are still tied down by their student loan and its not benefitting anyone, I live in Canada our loan system has an automatic cancellation (at least it did when I took out my loans) where if its clear that you won't be able to pay your loan back then after some time the balance is reduced to 0, but that takes like 10 years of being unable to find a well paying job.
Student debt is a scourge world wide, school should be free, an educated society is a healthy society
I graduated UC Riverside with $20,000+ in student loans. My payments are only 170$ a month and I make 26$ an hour with my job. I love my job and this is muuuuuuuch better for me than working in Taco Bell or construction🎓💸☮
You fell for there plan 😂
@@JJ-me4yu that's not the only option though. I also make that and never went to college. Have zero debt and own(not mortgage) my own home. People push college as the only option post high school and look down on those not college educated
I am one of those whos old enough and was scholarshipped enough to have graduated Uni with no debt. I still support loan forgiveness. People do not understand how much it has changed even in 20 years.
Also its the only private loan you can't discharge in bankruptcy court which feels like part of a Certain Political Party's 30+ year program of punishing people for getting an education.
I will graduate with no debt at the end of the spring from my 3rd Associates Degree and my Bachelor's. Game the Pell Grant system and make more from going to school than school costs. anybody over the age of 24 who does not have bachelor's degree, and a high paying job can do it for free. Use the Technical Colleges and Community Colleges they cost usually a third of the Universities.
You are a good person. Willing to do something, or even give something up, in order to help someone else - is the definition of selflessness and being a good person. Thank you
@@nob7094 thank you
Make no mistake, the other party has had ample opportunity to do something about that, but they don't, so it's not a certain political party's 30 year program it's the USA's 30 year program.
I would say it's been the agenda of both political parties to construct this straight jacket to saddle young people with lifetime of servitude. The man in office who could actually help people on this was the architect of no bankruptcy discharge for student loans. A person could borrow $$millions and waste it however you like, but you get to sleep better at night knowing you go to the court and be relieved of having to pay it back. But God forbids a 21yr wants to get rid of $50k, that's a no no . Like the video said, it's all about maintaining the predatory inclusion and forced offering of your labor services for the rest of your natural life.
How are we supposed to be waging forever wars on every continent if our young people aren't being strangled by debt?
Anyone remember mortgage backed securities? The reason student loan debt won't be forgiven is these student loans get packaged and sold to be used as collateral for margin trading by wall street.
"SLABs" student loans
THE LINE MUST GO UP!
…….”Oh, that makes sense.”
That might be true for a minority of the debt, but the vast majority of student loans are held by the US government and aren't available for such tricks. They are only serviced by private companies because beaks gotta be wetted.
This is why it would be so simple for the President to write off most student loans. They already only exist as numbers in a federal ledger that is essentially imaginary. They're maintained in order to keep people under the bootheel, nothing more.
@@the_exegete "They are only serviced by private companies because beaks gotta be wetted."
THE LINE MUST GO UP!
The Deprogram REPRESENT! Incredible systematic analysis as always, I mean why am I even surprised.
Thank you for all the work you do as well!
Been listening but some of what's talked about is going over my head, specifically episode 6 where you guys talk about what socialism etc. is. Do you have any recommendations of videos for simple folk like myself to better understand what you guys are talking about sometimes?
@@DavidSmith-oy4of check out the recent podcast episode. They drop a bunch of books and podcasts
@@Itstwistedroots Thanks will do. Am checking out the playlist mentioned earlier also.
@@DavidSmith-oy4ofhi there! If I may, I recommend Richard Wolff explaining socialism.
I think there is a series of lectures called 'Socialism for dummies'.
Richard Wolff is the most comprehensive for me, especially because of his slow-talking and his use of simple terms.
As a Zoomer, I can confirm. We do indeed have the most ring lights.
I’m currently in my first semester of college to become an aerospace engineer, and my first year cost $26,000. It’s absolutely insane how much it cost.
Aerospace engineering? That sounds dope af. Hopefully you will do well in your career
@@omegamusic3055 Thanks! It’s incredibly fun so far!
Drop out now.
Go learn an actual Trade
❤❤
What school is that?
In the Dutch language debt and guilt are actually the same word.
😮😮
Meanwhile in my language it’s the same as duty
@@fedunya1 lol in Chinese debt is literally and visually a person with responsibility or accountability.
In German too kinda
@@fedunya1 taki da!
You know it’s a good day when you see a new Second Thought in your feed
You know he releases one every friday at this exact hour?
@@untraceablefgc-9mkii251 yes, and I look forward to them every Friday
@@untraceablefgc-9mkii251 let ppl enjoy things
Hell yeah
Good day no good time yes
Really makes me appreciate living in Denmark. Here, we get paid up to $1,000 each month to go to school and don't have to pay anything to go to college.
@@shotelco Name one country in the world that never ever fought in a war, never committed any form of genocide and never had any revolutions and I'll agree with you that Denmark is the worst country in the world!
When your country has stealed so fucking much that can have an effective social democracy and brag about it XD
@@annekekramer3835 The fallacy of "the tie", a classic
@@shotelco Not to rain on your parade or anything, but the colonies were a net loss to most colonial powers. Obviously somebody made money, but it wasn't the states, it was rich private individuals, who, like today, avoided paying their fair share of taxes (hence why they were/are rich).
The same college deal is available to some former colonies.
So now having answered your question, why aren't you paying Afghanis for the mess your country made over there? Poor Afghanis now have to sell their organs in order to survive (no joke). Or why aren't you paying reparations for the civil war that Saddam prevented and therefor you started in Iraq? I could go on but it'd turn into a novel in here. Also why isn't Puerto Rico an American state yet or any of the other "overseas territories" (euphemism for colonies) of the USA? It's real easy pointing to a now peaceful country from the comfort of your home in the most aggressive country the world has ever seen, talking about their colonial past while your country's colonial times are still ongoing. Pot and kettle and all that jazz.
Denmark used soviet and east german policies to forward capitalism, and turned against the socialists they stole from
Most disgusting thing I have read in regards to debt is that some lendors might punish you with a fine for paying back a debt EARLY. This system is so bad that they encourage you to pay back the entire loan + interest to term so they can get the most money out of you. It's ridiculous.
You do realize that no one is forcing you to take out loans right?
@@ATHFANATIC Name one person you know that saving up money for college. It's unrealistic at this point to try to save for college in America just saying.
@@toshj177 I saved money myself for my graduate degree. I actually have two degrees, one undergraduate and a graduate and didnt have to take out any loans for the masters. It is possible. The more you live in delusion and make yourself helpless, the less likely you will succeed.
@@ATHFANATIC you most likely don't live in america
@@ATHFANATIC bro millions of people in the usa are not even saving up money for school because pointness to do so
I feel like I should blame middle schools and high schools for telling students almost everyday that we need to go to college to make it anywhere and mention often nothing about college debt.
I avoided it simply because I hardly ever listened to my teachers anyway.
Not sure if that's smart or really stupid.
Yea I work at a school and I advise the seniors to go to public school or somewhere that will give them decent financial aid. Otherwise, it’s just simply isn’t worth it.
Smart. Fuck school
save your money kid.
Making college cheaper (or better, free) at point of purchase isn't even an illogical choice from the idealist capitalist perspective. If one believes capitalism thrives off innovation, then we should be educating people so they have the ability to innovate. If an ideal capitalist society is an 'individualist meritocracy', then a person's ability to get a degree should be determined by their own willingness to learn and not the economic status of their family. The only capitalist defense of our current college system is that of those who'll make a little less yacht money if the system changes.
Edit: please just read the second and third reply to this comment before you start feeling like a special little genius with your 'capitalism doesn't innovate' reply. I am an anticapitalist, whatever you feel like typing won't be anything I haven't heard before.
Quite literally Adam Smith argued essentially this point, one of the contradictions capitalism explicitly cannot solve without intervention
Capitalism thrives on innovations of EXPLOITATION not raw innovation of technology especially to the benefit of people. If it thrived on meaningful innovation, cars wouldn't be a dominant means of transport, planned obsolescence wouldn't be a thing, etc.
@@gemain609 I'm aware of that, but that's not how pro-capitalists view it. Appealing to the internal logic of capitalist ideology is a good way to dismantle it, because it points out inherent contradictions and allows people to straighten those contradictions out. Eventually a person will accept so many new ideas that their new worldview isn't really comparable to pro-capitalism at all. They don't resist that change in the process because they think they're just building a 'better' capitalism. That's my experience, at least.
@@fatcat1414 I did this exact thing myself, from believing staunchly in capitalism to realizing it needs tweaks to make a "humane capitalism" to finally realizing we need to toss the whole rotten structure out, if you want the society Capitalists claim we are, socialism is, ironically, the best path forward
@@Nota-Skaven Technically I would argue there is a multi dimensional spectrum for governance and economic systems but yes shit has rotted and metastasized and among theoretical extremes socialism is more ideal. Sadly I don't see an easy way to theoretically implement a radical shift in governance without prebuilding the institutions and policies prior to the removal of the old system which the old system will not allow to occur. It is an ugly paradox tied up into human nature and the unfortunate evolutionary factors that have selected for personality types driven by hierarchy position i.e. a need to have power over others. This is unfortunately a quite common feature of social animals from primates to birds and even insects which means it is hard to deal with at least without understanding what drives the expression of specific personality types in humans.
Why do we all think we don’t live in an authoritarian country
*LONG POST*
I have a close friend that would rather save money for years then live with debt or having to rent and I can't blame her for that. She asked me one day if it's possible for her to live free of debt in the US. I told her that it is BUT it's extremely hard because in this country you have to have credit. As my fellow Americans know, credit scores rule this country. Without a good score or no score at all it'll be very hard to get a house or a car, etc.
An uncle of mine didn't have a credit score back when he wanted to buy a house for his family and banks wouldn't give him a mortgage because of that. He's been renting his house ever since. He's atleast 60 by now.
NOT VERY LONG
This is a Medium Sized post.
I've seen far longer stuff than this o the YT Comments section.
@@cakeisyummy5755 I've seen 8-16 paragraphs
That's bizarre, I live in Australia, they asked for credit card record but I had none so they looked at my savings pattern and rate, problem solved. If you can save you can pay mortgage repayment.
And Americans have the gall to laugh at China's Social Credit memes. The irony is so thick if I didn't know any better I'd think I'd have bitten my tongue.
I remember i went to the Netherlands for 2 weeks in collage and the students there were like
"oh we have student loan debt too!" And we were like
"oh shit that that fkin sucks, how much"
"About 3k?"
Imagine the look on our faces to hear it was ONLY 2,000- 3,000
Its absurd that we are subjected to tens of thousands of dollars for education that they expect us to have
On average it has risen to 20+k, sadly. However, that horrible system should be abolished soon, hopefully dropping it back to the old 2k-3k on average.
@@annekekramer3835 but… college costs €2,000 ish in the Netherlands… I am not from EU so I paid €10k while it is only €750 in my home country… South Koreans don’t feel a thing cuz that is how much it costs in SK while Americans in general don’t say that much… €10,000/year is still a burden for some I guess.
I remember a Dutch roommate who worked as a helping hand in the kitchen cleaning stuff said I have good parents who are willing to paid my college tuitions without knowing as a non EU student I had to pay more… way more. Paying €4,700 was considered to be a scholarship, as they said lol.
$3k is a lot and terrible too. Just because someone else suffers more doesn't make that less terrible. That's like saying people should care about you cause homeless people suffer more than you.
Another thing that is somewhat related to student debt is school lunches, I'm in high school and although yes the base meals are technically free, due to a pandemic, that stuff is as edible as the contents of a sewer and even the expensive stuff would be only half the quality of a good meal from an actual restaurant, but let's take a step back
Why in God's name should a school charge to give us the worst food that one could imagine,
1 ounce of chicken on q small tortilla? That's a goddamn luxury
Apples that taste as if the apples soul has left and all that's left is a cold husk of an apple?
You bet that's a separate thing from a base lunch
Lines so long that they take up 80% of out lunch blocks, and yet we still have to PAY?
That's school
Thats how (at least my school) school lunches work
This shouldn't be a thing, we have to waste the only time we get in school in a line instead of even getting a chance to eat, or talk to our friends, or do anything
And they charge us for this bullshit?
Absolutely abhorrent
Not to speak of the education we receive, not to mention the shit support for people who need or could greatly benefit from help
I've seen so much bullshit, the people who run schools have been doing us a disservice at best, and from my experience, figuratively backstabbing and putting debt on children
I can't speak for yall but what I see is disgusting behavior from the school, and I haven't even gone through everything I've seen
Remember, it's not the teachers that are the issue, they are good people, it's the system
For reference, this is public high school I'm talking about
My belief is that if minors must go to compulsory school then their needs must be met for free by the institution during those hours.
This is the result of spending half a century deliberately sabotaging the public education system. It was done primarily by the Republicans, but the Democrats made it possible.
They changed the objective from education to political/financial acquisition.
Education is absolutely the key to being independent of the owner class. Therefore, education must be eliminated. As George Carlin said so long ago, "educated people that are capable of sitting around their kitchen table and realizing how badly they've been screwed isn't in their interest".
@@EpwnaExeter while I agree with you, i think that the school system has shown it is very out of touch with its students, kinda like the US government now that I think of it
@@rickb3650 well I would say the school system is more just general indoctrination into ideas like
"Communism has never worked"
"Capitalism is the only way"
"The United States is the greatest country"
And the ideals they hammer into students until they ate nothing but cutthroat husks of their former selves
"Your are worth as much as your grade"
"You are a failure if you don't get good grades"
Those 2 are never truly said, but it's implied so heavily that I've seen what can best be described as students who would sel their souls for 2% higher grades
The schools system has made students rather frightening in terms of their attitude twords work
The school system is not just making people working drones, they're removing what is not work from people's life
The future the school system is making is one that is frightening at best
Gambling debt is easily bankruptable but student loan debt is not, that is just wrong. We here in the USA should be more like wonderful Denmark, which is why I voted for Senator Bernie Sanders for president in the primaries in 2016 and 2020.
It used to be dischargeable until 1998, and you can thank Biden for writing the legislation that ended it.
I'd say we're about six or seven immolated billionaires away from that outcome.
I just wish he had more of a backbone and didn't get pushed around so easily by his peers.
I've been aggressively paying down my student debt for the last seven years, I should be able to have it payed off by this summer. I can't even remember what it feels like to be debt free.
I’ve been paying off my loans while the pause has been going on. They should be fully paid off by my birthday next month. A great present.
Don't worry. After you buy a house and a car, you'll feel right at home again.
I had a great job with a toxic employer and my partner (now wife) finally convinced me that it wasn't worth the money dealing with him. It's really depressing that our debt can place us between a rock and a hard place, feeding on our mental health, bribing us to go all in on a get rich quick strategy and then benefiting from any failures. Our economy is designed to profit from misery and life wasted on building a better mousetrap for the rich to buy, use and throw away. My wife is watching that anime about kids brains being fed on by demons after being promised a better life. It really feels familiar.
Anime: The Promised Neverland.
Your wife sounds like a woman of culture
Holy shit! I'm just now realizing the probable anti-capitalist bent of the Promised Neverland. The irony that it comes from a hyper-capitalist country with an infamously self-destructive concept of work is not lost on me
and let me guess you have never attended any demonstration regarding these issues - except visiting a bernie sanders rally?
@@otakuConn don’t worry, it’s probable that the opposite will happen. Sorry for being an asshole!
I don’t like living in a system where your only options are to exploit others, or be exploited.
OMG I agree. I JUST finished paying off my student loans last year and I’m 42. No, I will never get on the “well I suffered so you should too,” train to those still paying. It’s unfair, predatory (targeting people to sign documents at 18) and needs to change NOW.
Too many people still buy into the “because I suffered you should too” mentality though. Perpetual bootlicking to the max. Enslaving their country’s own children to it. US won’t last much longer because of it.
Got to keep those kids disciplined so they’ll accept the conditions the bourgeoisie wants to give them and keep them in line.
I don't mind the debt, what bothers me is the interest. Once the principal debt is payed off, you still have a ton of interest debt left to pay.
Right 👀👀👀 like if it didn't accrue daily interest id actually have hope of paying it back. They want to trap us
If it bothered you that much why'd you go through with it?
@@roycewidrick3247 Sometimes it can be like 'an offer you can't refuse.'
I graduated from the best high school in the country and then from one of the best colleges in the world. Didn't pay a dime for any of that. In fact, in college I was paid a stipend.
You know what my secret is? You guessed it, this was not in the USA.
Where did you get your degree?
best high school in your country? You prob living in the Vatican or somethn
@@bqpahdoesstuff5123 Europe aor post-communist country, I guess
100% acceptance, nope
Wrong, you DID pay it.. only it was thru your taxes. You know who else paid for it? People who live in your country and didn't go to college. 🤨
I was lucky enough to be born with two parents who were able to secure alright jobs with little higher education. I'm gonna be the first one in my family to have to deal with the large student debt when I finish community college and actually go to a university so if you guys want to go ahead and start the international proletarian revolution so I don't have to worry so much that'd be great.
We got you hommie, times are changing faster than ever.
@@IPoopNaked it just seems like it's for the worst 😑
why dont u join us
Why would you first go to college and then to university? In my country you either go to college or to university.
@@dimfre4kske67 it's cheaper to go to Community College first
As someone who graduated with zero debt, the thought of having that kind of predatory cloud hanging over my head and knowing it will never go away terrifies me. We need to do better as a country.
When I arrived in Australia i didn't know having student debt is considered normal in Western countries including those coming from middle class. In my family, education is basic children right, they saved hard, lived frugally so they can send kids to college. I had thousands dollars surplus (by working part time and parents allowance to cover living cost while studying) and zero debt after graduation. I thank them forever for all their sacrifices.
In the EU you don't have student debt, families don't need to save for years to send children to university.
Student debt in the western world only exists in the former English colonies.
I graduated from Swiss universities without any debt, even though I was a foreign student. The only challenges I had was that life was very expensive for me because I came from Africa.. But fortunately, I had the ability to build my life, and I hate loan or even borowing from anyone!
The thing I learned in Switzerland is that I can live renting all my life renting, why would I constrain my future for a house that I don't have money to buy it or at least 70% of its worth ?
My mom lived frugally, but couldn't afford to send any of her kids to college. She could barely afford to feed us, and I'm certain in feeding us she went hungry more than once herself.
Living frugally doesn't mean shit in the US.
@@brandygibson5003 So sorry to hear that, hope things improve for you and family. Yeah living frugally won't make a difference if you currently live down to bare bones.
@@TheDanorte yeah i heard EU and Scandinavian countries are much better when it comes to kids' education
I feel unbelievably lucky I found a job as a firefighter which pays me to get my certifications and schooling I constantly hear friends and family crying cause they have no idea how they will be able to find a job that pays enough to live let alone pay off their loans before they die
For once I'm glad one of your video has ads, I'm not quickly skipping theses ones. We must support our favorite CZcamsrs by any means we can
Thank you 🙏
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c I understand the ads, doesn't mean I like them. If an ad is skipped a creator won't receive revenue from it. CZcams probably still does though. It's just my way of supporting.
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c It's perfectly okay to make money if it's not exploitative. Wtf is this fetishism with being poor if you want a better world for everyone?
@@mcduckington it's not, he's doing the tu quoque bullshit thinking it's an actual argument
@@user-oi6ec8ge4c the problem is when it is still not socialism you have to survive even in such a barbary as capitalism. By the way in USSR there were also ads - what do you think it was intended for?
Thanks for this, capitalism has fueled my depression because I didn't want to live my life just paying off debt and I was told I was crazy and need to grow up. Everyone does it,
There's always been a better way and the treatment I received made me go to community college so I dont accumulate too much debt that ic an pay off in my 30s atleast
I have ~$23000 in debt and I graduated 11 years ago. I haven't been able to make regular payments on them until just a couple of years ago. Between having major surgery and getting pneumonia, moving out of state and back, working multiple jobs before stumbling into my current career, being married to a control freak who is awful with money, and divorcing said control freak last year, making consistent chunks in that debt had been virtually impossible.
I live in Belgium, the most I ever paid for College was my books and that came to around 350 euros a year. School itself was less. And in Highschool, I got paid back for my books if I hadn't ruined them at the end of the year.
🐢
@@Lobos222 I'll take it LOL
Remember, Cuba, a nation that has been under economic warfare for over half a centuary, has a better education system than the richest nation in history.
The USSR also had... But Cubans are great being so small but so strong
@@IIII...... they are
@@IIII...... What good is having great schools for the richest 0.001% of the population when everybody else gets fucked by debt for a mediocre education from exhausted adjuncts making less than minimum wage? Like have you even considered the idea that education should be good for more than a tiny sliver of elites?
I literally dont understand how these guys try to defend this ineffective system put in place for the small minority of rich parasites because I doubt any financial elite watches these videos. It's like trying to defend the guy who bends you over and claps ur cheeks every night, I dont understand them lol
@@IIII...... Thats because of income inequality. Overall the US is very poor and a 3rd world country, but it can invest ALL of its resources into the top 5 percent of the population to create extreme luxury and great status for a select few that were born into wealthy families and had everything going for them. For everyone else, they get a standard of living far far below other 1st world countries.Since Americans never travel abroad, they never know how terrible and impoverished their lives without healthcare and 2 months yearly of paid vacation are.Your instinct will be to act like 2 months of paid vacation is such a terrible thing, but that's well within company budgets and you're just an indoctrinated slave that has been put in his place.
I worked in student loans for 8 years, I can tell you some insane stories and the amount of profit those companies rake in especially from defaulted loan debt. All for loans that are supposed to be non-profit. Why is their interest if they are non-profit? Why does it double if you default? Why is it unescapable through bankruptcy? So many issues. Now there were plenty of people who would borrow 500k+ to buy cars and vacations and stuff, but that means the entire system is flawed. Why could they take out loans for that when it was meant for schooling? So many issues.
They were able to take out for a vehicle because under the terms it says you can use student loans for transportation. Also you can get a lawyer and if you can prove to the court you've been severely poor and within the long term future you will never be able to pay it back there is a hardship bankruptcy. As well as if you become disabled.
@@rc10gttb unless there is some loophole no one is aware of, Biden, when he was a senator, signed in legislation that made student loans debt the ONLY debt that can NEVER be discharged in bankruptcy. Ever. In any kind of bankruptcy.
@@ewetn1 My understanding is that it's technically possible, but very difficult and unlikely. I don't know the details but you seem to need to be so destitute and hopeless that you could never hire a lawyer, and also you need a lawyer to actually pull it off.
I have never had a credit card, nor have a ever taken a loan from a bank or other financial institution. And I can attest that doing so does result in the life of a pauper, but it also does come with a real sense of freedom. Not being beholden to anyone goes a long way to reduce the anxiety of living.
Credit cards are great!
Especially their promotions for opening NEW account.
In November, Capital One paid me $200 for charging $500.
In December, Citibank paid me $200 for charging $750.
Next month, Wells Fargo is gonna pay my $200 for charging $1,000.
And Yes... I already canceled the first two.
❤❤
It's not the life of a pauper. It's called living within your means.
Just had to redo my IBR for student loans. The low end is 114 a month. I first attended college in 97. Job hunting problems and cost of relocation kept me there (refund check and housing costs were a better deal than leaving for a lower skilled job and off campus housing) kept me there through grad school. Then the Great Recession compelled me back into school in 09 (workstudy paid more plus refund check) since jobs were cut.
Check out The Bad Faith Podcast - Is It Time For a Debt Strike - Debt Collective - Zoom mtg scheduled for 01/23
This just consolidates my firm belief that no debt is ever truly justified. True freedom comes at a cost, and that cost is renunciation of whatever could imprison you.
Gen X here. I remember trying to get through a semester in community collage back in the early 90's. My Pel Grant would only pay tuition and HALF of my books. I was on an income too tiny to fund collage by myself, and my parents were too poor to help out. I was told to apply for a student loan.
I remember sitting there and having the financial aid person try to talk me out of reading the contract carefully. I got part way through reading it when I realized it was a trap. I refused to sign and flunked out because I had no way to get the rest of my books. At almost 50 I am sitting here knowing that signing that paper would have only made my life harder.
getting ready to turn 50, wish I would have read more of the fine print
Our parents correlated College Degrees with success because the rich went to college.
So they pressured us to go so we wouldnt fall behind in the workforce.
Now we are worse off.
Failed to mention a number of different things. Education spending has been cut drastically in part because prison spending has blown up with just bad ideas like mandatory minimums+private prisons. The less funding the state puts to education, the more expensive it becomes for students.
You absolutely can live without debt. It's about priorities and living differently. You don't need all the things they tell you you need. A "normal life" as you call it isn't actually a normal life and that life isn't the route to happiness- that's just buying in to the myth.
I never gave the origins of debt a second thought, until now!
Lol, Second Thought
Imagine even considering making this video if you had defaulted on your debt. Like you said, we've been conditioned to feel that it is morally wrong to default on debt or take debt that we cannot pay back. The feelings I go through, and anxiety because I became disabled and wasn't able to work any more. I couldn't get unemployment or disability for over a year so now I am being taken to court by multiple creditors. What's worse is I believe that pretty soon they will end bankruptcy protection except for people who are rich. You wait and see.
Watching this as a European (Belgian) is so weird
Last year I graduated as Industrial Product Designer with a minor in engineering, and have zero debt.
This is pretty amazing, considering my parents both make very little money. It's just that here in Belgium, higher education is highly subsidized, to make sure even parents with very little money can give their kids a good education, and it works.
I'm an example of this, I just got my second job, and am now making almost as much as both of my parents combined.
Unrelated to the subject at hand, your content, scripts, and soundtracks have been exceptionally great lately. Great work dude!
I go to a community college, and there are some teachers that work there because the pay is better than an university. They have a program for free college as well. The problem isn't that college is getting more expensive, it's that college is getting greedy, and college is a nessesary part of life.
I graduated in December with a degree in environmental science and a concentration in soil and water science and I am $108,000 in debt, with this in mind revolution seems like the logical solution
Nah dawg just get a job making 38,000 and then buy a house when you're about 90
You can check out The Bad Faith Podcast - Is It Time for a Debt Strike - Zoom mtg scheduled for 01/23
who forced you to take that loan???
Every time I watch your video I realize just how good I have it in my third world country.
I really enjoy The Deprogram!
And i love that it made me aware of your content, which is among the best on YT.
Keep up the great work comrade!
This is such a well written video with so many potent sentences to unpack in such an easily digestible amount of time. You are doing an invaluable service. Please continue making videos like these. They are eye-opening at worst and I wouldn't mind watching hours of them like I do with folding ideas.
Here in Canada, while post secondary isn’t free, the government programs to help people pay for post secondary seem are more generous than comparable American programs I’ve been able to gather the information on. I know second thought mentioned this fact in a previous video (talking about how post secondary education is much cheaper in Canada and other countries).
It should still be free in Canada and everywhere
@@georgekostaras It is free if you wait till age 24 to start college in the USA.
Don't forget how many dozens of times helpful legislation was called "too expensive" only to be closely followed by billions in bailouts to those who would never need it, (such as the Covid era Wall St bailouts) who in turn often gave themselves bonuses and raises.
Here in the Netherlands, the previous generation didn't have to lend for college, my generation did and the generation after me not anymore. They call my us the 'bad luck' generation. I remember politicians who had taken 8-9 years to finish college blaming us for our loans, saying that it was our own fault we had loans if we switched studies or took longer than the 4-5 years the studies last. And if you're still paying off your student debt it makes it a lot harder to buy a house, in case that wasn't difficult enough yet.
Pharmacist here with $236,125 in total student loan debt.
Rip... i'm grateful that i'm going to a community college. I'll have no debt and graduating next year
@@NikosM112 That's excellent, good on you. If I could tell my 17-18 year old self anything it would be to do my undergrad at a community college; my college experience was one I'll remember fondly, but I'm not sure that it was worth ~$90k in debt. Regardless, I'm on my way to paying it down and even if the fed announces total loan forgiveness the day I pay it off I won't have any qualms about a decision to wipe out student debt. You see so many people who are against it saying, "well I had to pay off MY debt..." and it's such a selfish mindset.
damn!! you gotta sell alot of medicine..
Wow, early to a Second Thought video. Never thought I'd get here.
Watched on Nebula twice yesterday. Such a good video. 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Also watching here cuz it’s just that based
Let's goooo, another Friday, another Second Thought video!
Thanks! I was just looking for something to watch!
It’s not that we can’t get enough debt. It’s that we can’t avoid it. And this is by design. It is advantageous to the debt holders in a multitude of ways.
While I am not wealthy, my parents have been saving for years to pay for me and my sister's college so we won't have to start life in debt and I am forever grateful for their decision to do so. While I am not rich, the simple act of not having a loan opens up so much opportunity to do the same to my eventual children as I can save earlier.
Thank you for posting this excellent video
Following the podcast! Thanks for the good content!
I listed to I think it was MPR. And they interviewed a medical doctor that is paying off his debt. He claimed that this can discourage new doctors to go to schools. We may have a brain drain if we put people in debt with our education system.
"There is literally nothing stopping the President from canceling student debt, or most forms of debt for that matter, with the stroke of a plan." except there is a lack of political will, not just on his part, but on the federal government in general, as well as fears that doing so would have damaging economic effects.
You know how you cancel the debt? Don't take it out in the first place. 😉
Love the podcast have been listening to it in on my long drives. Hilarious, quality content keep up the good work!
I went to college for 1 year and dropped out because the financial department lied about all of my expenses being covered by loans and grants. 20 years later, I still owe for that one year of college.
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" ~ George Carlin
No offence but if the American dream is dead, then why does the US still to this day takes in the most skilled immigrants in the world. Why does the US still host the most international students than in any other country?
@@samyak4165 cause you're living in lala land. Black Rock and other financial giants are buying property at lightning pace way above value price as we speak. Also most work is exploitative by nature. Those skilled workers you champion are often fired and rehired for a cheaper wage to lower market values. You can keep sleeping though.
@@rickeybernard8156 Bruh, I am not even American, I am from India. I just happen to know a few people who live in the US and for the most part they like it there. That's why I asked the question in the first place.
@@samyak4165 then you are unimformed, and whether or not you are telling me the truth, good for your friends. The truth is America is suffering from constant exploits due to the misinformation and propaganda. I watch people blame themselves for being underpaid and inevitably fail trying to slave their way for basic needs. A lot of these people are educated. Even if they weren't, it's disgusting to exploit anyone that way.
@@rickeybernard8156 Well I am telling the truth. I understand your view as well, hopefully one day you get everything you need. btw, do you really think a socialist revolution is gonna happen?
Your video is great, best communication of the principle of "debt is slavery". Keep up the good work!
Any video that mentions Graeber gets my upvote. Debt was among my favorite books that I read last year. So much so that it's probably going on the list again this year. Great video, JT.
Wait, this makes it sound like I didn't love the rest of the video, too. I did. Your ideas are always so clear, thoughtful, and well conveyed.
I'm reading Graeber's book right now! Very good!
4:53 got chills. That was a whole revelation about money right there 💀
Anyone joining the debt strike? It's gaining traction on r/debtstrike like second thought said, "they can't imprison us"
I clicked on the link to find the book but the link took me to the entire book! Thank you!! :)
Been waiting on you to cover “Debt”! Happy to see it getting some more traction
i wish i could one day be on your guys podcast id love to talk to you.
To understand debt you have to understand how our banking and financial system really works. Under a "fractional reserve banking " system all money is loaned into existence by banks. It's how all money is created. So then where does all the money to pay all the interest come from? From even more debt of course. And then more and more. The whole system is just a big pyramid scheme where the money supply has to continuously expand to keep the system from collapsing and destroying itself.
So well written, thanks for that!
Really love all you do and especially uploading the books as free pdfs thank you comrade
I love your videos so much they honestly give me reprieve from my own preoccupation with the state of affairs lol. Would you consider doing a video about how insurance operates in ways that, if an individual were to operate the same way, wold go to prison for Rico predicates??? Insurance companies basically agree that we can’t afford something and hang it over our heads. Car insurance being mandatory is evidence that pricing for things are incongruent with value
Videos like this make me glad I never went to college.
What a strange series of words that is.
excellent video. one of your best !
Thanks for the video :)
Here in India I paid roughly around $75 in 5 years combined for my graduation and post graduation. For university hostel I paid around $80 a year. That's how I could get educated, otherwise it's unimaginable..
In India private Institutes are Upper Caste Ghettos. The fee is extremely high, but with money you can get admission there. Public universities and institutions are very difficult to get, a very highly competitive exam is required to get through in the limited seats.
Also we are paid here for doing PhD. Its good enough to even support your family if you enrolled in a PhD course. That's how some of my friends are supporting their sibling's education
Most places here offer a stipend for the PhD program. You can get some if you're just really brilliant, but almost everyone can get one from helping out teaching courses. It's nothing amazing, but it's usually enough to pay for all the fees, housing, and food, with a tiny bit left over if you're frugal.
@@Zarincos Okay, I didn't know that, everytime I tell American people that I receive fellowship/scholarship for PhD they are surprised
I love your content and the promotion of class consciousness
1:37, I recognize my old university from that clip you used. University of Oregon. gave me flashbacks to a few years ago.
Thanks for the thoughtful video