Your speakers are wrong

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  • čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
  • Are my speakers wrong? Are YOUR speakers wrong? How many ways can they be wrong? ❤️ Support My Channel ❤️ www.buymeacoffee.com/davidmellor
    CREDITS
    Waveguide - Behringer K5
    Recording studio - Ardent Studio by Katie from Memphis, TN, USA CC BY-SA 2.0 (Original Yamaha NS-10M non-studio shown)

Komentáře • 383

  • @stuartcoyle1626
    @stuartcoyle1626 Před rokem +159

    Here in Australia we mount all our speakers upside down, so that the sound comes out with the correct phase in the UK. :P

    • @cdl0
      @cdl0 Před rokem +9

      LOL! Best comment. 🙂

    • @editingsecrets
      @editingsecrets Před rokem +8

      In Australia, if you spin a record backwards, an evil message pops out with an American accent

    • @archiemacdonald553
      @archiemacdonald553 Před rokem +3

      dam Aussies lol ❤

    • @C90C60C30
      @C90C60C30 Před rokem +3

      😆😆😆

    • @not2logic
      @not2logic Před rokem +1

      Dont mess with the speakers, stand on your head when mixing or mastering.

  • @horrortackleharry
    @horrortackleharry Před rokem +6

    3:17 Reminds me of the famous Quincy Jones anecdote: in the 'Thriller' sessions, he always brought a nasty, cheap mono transistor radio-type speaker into the studio for playback. "It's got to sound good on that- that's how the majority of people will be listening to this".

  • @Carl-bd1rf
    @Carl-bd1rf Před 10 měsíci +2

    I love how people think your system should sound and be set up, not!!!
    The only person my system needs to make happy is me.

  • @msingh1932
    @msingh1932 Před rokem +2

    I love the way the Master splits the hairs. Cocking his head to one side to discern the difference in the frequencies. And he has this amazing assistant, who is always there to fill in the gaps! I wish I could afford an assistant like that...

  • @nicksmith4507
    @nicksmith4507 Před rokem +7

    I still use my father's KEF Cantors from 1975. He used them high up horizontally, I use them in a small room now vertically. The KEF logo on the front rotates to match the orientation 😊

  • @stratocat9999
    @stratocat9999 Před rokem +7

    Cheers for this from a retired mastering engineer!
    I had my NS10M's in this orientation on my personal desktop for years, and got nothing but grief from my contemporaries. About a year ago, I relocated my home studio to a larger room, and relegated my Yamaha monitors stands off the desktop and in the customary horizontal position. Having them further apart has improved imaging, but this has to do with the fact they are slightly farther apart, not the orientation.
    Yamaha is correct. It does not matter a whit or a tiddle if they are vertical or horizontal. Just keep them off of a flat surface in either case.
    I also added a 1 octave step graphic EQ that allowed me to give them a nice 'HiFi' or loudness curve. In close proximity as designed, with this addition, reveals the little units are capable of surprising bass response, and there is no need to cover the tweeters in toilet paper. 😁
    A simple flip of the switch allows me to go from flat to sweet. This has also pretty much eliminated the need for multiple monitor pairs.
    My primary use for these speakers in my personal studio is for archiving my analog library and restoring or remastering much of the same for 96 khz 24 bit wave. And the occasional multitracking for myself of 'backing tracks', something I have done since the 80's in order to perform 'live' without a band.
    I retired in 2018 after my company closed it's media division as far as in-house production and mastering after 22 years with them. All's well as ends better, as I am having far more fun being retired and working on my own projects!
    Cheers again!

  • @naibafabdulkobor4301
    @naibafabdulkobor4301 Před rokem +3

    You are totally right regarding vertical or horizontal orientation. Simple as that. Period.

  • @PapaNicksMusic
    @PapaNicksMusic Před rokem +1

    I’ve recently come across your videos (and subscribed!), and I am heartened by your willingness and ability to examine the fine details of sound reproduction while still reminding us that all of this-ALL of this-is subjective. If I mount my studio monitors in the attic pointing down through air vents into my studio because I like the way it sounds, that is good enough. If I like the way it sounds, it’s good. If I don’t, it’s bad. Far too many people throw around the word “objectively” in these discussions. You don’t, and I love that.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem

      Your comment reminds me of years ago when I saw someone's reasonably decent speakers placed tightly into the corners of their room. All wrong in theory as they excite more standing waves. Except it sounded really good, the main point being that you could be anywhere in the room and it sounded good, rather than just one 'sweet spot' listening position. I wouldn't say this is good for monitoring, but for enjoying music it's an option. DM

  • @NisGaarde
    @NisGaarde Před rokem +3

    "Always look on the bright side of yesterday"

  • @uhuhno6441
    @uhuhno6441 Před rokem +2

    As always, thank you for the free information!

  • @djtbs1
    @djtbs1 Před 10 měsíci +1

    You are just... awesome. Enjoy your content for it's analytical side, humor, and education points. Your video where you show the DAW noise floor doesn't exist was excellent as well.

  • @HomeTheatre101
    @HomeTheatre101 Před rokem +1

    I honestly enjoy watching your videos and listening to your take.

  • @theonl1128
    @theonl1128 Před rokem +1

    Good for you! 😊 You are completely right. It's all very personal.

  • @legtrax2021
    @legtrax2021 Před 4 měsíci +1

    Ideally, the tweeters should be at ear level for your listening position. Pick the most suitable mount orientation and angle using isolation to create triangle between ears and tweeters. That should get you close to the studio's listening position ie the track will sound closest to how it was intended.

  • @valleywoodstudio7345
    @valleywoodstudio7345 Před rokem +5

    I have an old pair of AR18's that are really useful for checking - kind of the precursor to NS10s as portable Hifi for mixing. I mostly work on my Genelec 1030a but they are a little 'veiled' in the upper mid at the crossover point even though excellent for me everywhere else. The AR show me that area perfectly - not to mention have a tight bass.
    Thanks for re-emphasising the phase aspect - I find speakers on their side super wide and weird, but thats me.

    • @annode
      @annode Před rokem

      The first component HiFi system I heard was with a pair of AR-1 in 1969. My neighbor had the system and I was 14 yrs old. He played the best music on them too. Sgt Peppers, Simon and Garfunkel - Bookends, Are You Experienced. Those speakers sounded so good to me then. :)

  • @DenisPerron
    @DenisPerron Před 25 dny

    My speakers are also installed horizontally. And I also used a pink noise to adjust my system using a Real time analyzer and a graphic equalizer to correct the deficiencies in my system as well as the acoustics of my room. It makes a big difference. My amplifier is an Electrocompaniet from the 80s.

  • @thePunkRockMix
    @thePunkRockMix Před 10 měsíci

    I have it placed the same as you did - since 15 years - never got a problem :)

  • @TWEAKER01
    @TWEAKER01 Před rokem +3

    Time alignment (tweeters & woofers to your ears) is a HUGE factor to hearing detail objectively, as you alluded to towards the end. And the more drivers in a speaker cabinet, the more difficult that can be. We're subconsciously actually more sensitive to phase response than to pitch.

    • @ottonormalverbrauch3794
      @ottonormalverbrauch3794 Před 6 měsíci

      We are sensitive to phase differences left and right for evolutuonary reasons ( where does the lion come from?), vertically not so much as it will only result in a slightly different frequency response.

  • @peters7949
    @peters7949 Před rokem +6

    I remember when the NS10M first appeared mid 1980s, as I recall their biggest selling point was that an NS10 sounded like an NS10 in almost every studio they were used in. This was the era of the freelance sound/mix engineer, who could be working in almost any studio from day to day. Other popular near field speakers seemed to interact with the room more thus sounded subtly different in different studios. The NS10 did not sound as accurate as other speakers but the sound was consistent so he/she had a known reference.
    The original NS10M had an acoustic material speaker ‘grill’, but engineers always took it off. The result was the speaker was very slightly bright, which lead to people putting a sheet of tissue paper over the tweeter. This lead to a discussions of how many sheets, what brand etc. It sounds mad but it happened!
    I remember one of the Lord-Alge brothers (sorry can’t remember which one) who said the NS10 only “sounded right” when it was so loud it was “farting” ie the bass driver hitting the end stop. Needless to say the bass drivers needed replacing very often when he was mixing. But his mixes sounded great so who am I to judge.

    • @MobiusMinded
      @MobiusMinded Před rokem

      They used to replace the NS10 woofers every single day at A&M (Now Henson) studios. There was an aftermarket here in LA for less financially blessed studios, for cheaper than new NS10 woofers.

    • @peters7949
      @peters7949 Před rokem

      @@MobiusMinded we did mot replace them every day, but we had a big stock of spare drivers & swapped out when tired, the engineer/producer requested or when they inevitably died.

    • @MobiusMinded
      @MobiusMinded Před rokem

      @@peters7949 ahh… I was at The Village at the time and this was the rumor. We swapped the out all the time too. Let’s not forget the “Fuse vs Non Fused” tweeter debate.

    • @peters7949
      @peters7949 Před rokem

      @@MobiusMinded I don’t recall the tweeter fuse debate, perhaps it was more of a USA issue. We did have Urei 813A main monitors in 3 of our studios; they had, what looked like light bulbs, in series with the drivers. They were actually Barretter resistors en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barretter. These glowed if the speakers were driven too hard, increasing their resistance & thus protecting the driver. They also served as a warning that they were too loud. These would blow from time to time & were much easier to replace than a driver. I recall a small JBL speaker in the 90s that had a similar device inside, that when driven too hard you could see, though the bass port, illuminating the inside of the speaker.

  • @carlsitler9071
    @carlsitler9071 Před rokem +1

    I loved listening to my mom's albums in the '70s and she had a wide ranging taste in music. She had Led Zepplin next to Arlow Guthrie... Nate King Cole... Johnny Cash... Fifth Dimension... Donavan, etc. She had an all in one consul (speakers, turn table, 8-track, radio).

  • @owlcavedreams
    @owlcavedreams Před rokem +7

    In addition to the "mids microscope" aspect of NS10s, I always understood the the main reason for having them is that virtually every pro studio on earth has them, and they thus serve as a reliable reference point for engineers who know them well. Great for mixing vocals. I wouldn't use them exclusively (I also have Genelecs), but mine have magic dust on them...I got them from the Townhouse studios (via funky junk) with a Quad 520f. Be Well.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +6

      We all know that the magic dust effect isn't real. But sometimes it feels real. DM

    • @rabarebra
      @rabarebra Před rokem

      Genelec's tweeters are harsh metal-dome. But if you love them and care for them, good for you. You will know them.

  • @TheMicrophoneChannel
    @TheMicrophoneChannel Před rokem +21

    I always mount NS-10s the way they are mounted in this video. The bass response should be slightly better when mounted vertically as well as the phase coherence between the woofer and tweeter, as already stated. Combine all that with keeping the tweeters on the outside and the sound will image better across the stereo spectrum. Now, all of this is probably more or less subtle, but I personally like to have things set up as correct as possible.

    • @carlosoliveira-rc2xt
      @carlosoliveira-rc2xt Před rokem

      It's tweeters to the inside and the speaker has no bass but if it did, vertical or horizontal wouldn't matter.

    • @rabarebra
      @rabarebra Před rokem

      It depends on your height position of your ears. Your ears should be somewhere between the LF and the HF. If turning the speakers upside down fits this height, do so.

    • @TheMicrophoneChannel
      @TheMicrophoneChannel Před rokem

      ​@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt No. It's tweeters out. And it doesn't reproduce sub frequencies but it does reproduce bass, especially when using a high quality, relatively powerful amplifier. Even Auratones can sound remarkably full, for what they are, with a good amp. And if I can find the detailed write up on the NS10s, explaining why they have a slightly more full response when mounted vertically, and why it's more beneficial to have the tweeters out, I'll link it.

    • @carlosoliveira-rc2xt
      @carlosoliveira-rc2xt Před rokem

      @@TheMicrophoneChannel As I have stated, the speakers have no appreciable bass, no one but perhaps you denies this. What the speaker has is an exaggerated mid which can easily be manipulated by close proximity to any large surface. As for imaging, preferences aside, speakers always image better with tweeters in and it's common knowledge in the audiophile community. As I also stated, IF the speaker had bass orientation wouldn't matter. What you are talking about is mid/ crossover/ tweeter dispersion which is greater greater in most vertically oriented speakers so yes there will be a difference in orientation which is why we don't orient vertically designed speakers in a horizontal position. I hope this clears up my statement and position on the matter.

    • @catfart.
      @catfart. Před 11 měsíci

      @@carlosoliveira-rc2xt bruh, everyone's listening space is different, everyone's distance from the monitors is different, everyone's source is different, everyone musical preferences are different. Standing waves and reflections off the desk they're sitting on, you walls, your ceiling height, everything - all contribute. To say one is better than the other is just plain silly. Your statement is just laughable - "speakers always image better with tweeters in and it's common knowledge in the audiophile community" -- Maybe "best for you", but not "best for someone else you've never met", there is no right way vs wrong way in this comment thread. Both can have positive and negative issues. I'd suggest you start listening to concentric / coaxial drivers and hopefully stop suffering from "knowitalism".

  • @alanperry1846
    @alanperry1846 Před rokem

    Good for you ,it is amazing how all these people are experts and don't have their own speaker companies.

  • @Mitsch76
    @Mitsch76 Před 11 měsíci

    For many years I used a pair of Canton Quinto510 Loudspeakers....and they did the job very well. Combined with my AKG K240 Studio headphones I think I was pretty good prepared to mix and record audio. I used my monitors so long and so intensive that I imediately identified any mistake in mix or recording. I knew exactly what I should be hearing.
    Since 3 years I changed to a pair of Yamaha HS 7 studio monitors and still I don't feel as secure and confident as I did on my (very old) Cantons. I guess it has to be some more years of matching my ears to the new monitors..... To conclude: I think you just need to KNOW WHAT YOU HEAR. And be able to make the right decisions from that knowledge.
    Great video, as always! Thank you very much!

  • @ONESNZER0S
    @ONESNZER0S Před rokem +1

    LOL Paul McCartney, how lucky to have your audience think of Paul when you talk and what a wonderful job of recording the
    Beatles did for the music industry.
    keep up the good work!

  • @bertsmorenburg1709
    @bertsmorenburg1709 Před 11 měsíci +1

    I use my (upright) NS10s (hooked up to an old Alesis amp) for two reasons: in mono for balancing (theyre ruthless when balance is wrong or when wide sounds are not in phase), and to check if my bass is still there on smaller speakers (if not, I usually add a bit of distortion to bass in parallel to bring it up on smaller speakersets). Double checking on NS10's has saved me numerous times

  • @blainemunro7520
    @blainemunro7520 Před rokem

    I agree fully! The room dictates everything! Cheers

  • @jimsregaturntableshifijukebox

    Nicely done and very interesting.

  • @celam1244
    @celam1244 Před rokem +1

    This was great!

  • @ONESNZER0S
    @ONESNZER0S Před rokem +1

    Nice Job mate!!

  • @JAFOpty
    @JAFOpty Před rokem

    I like turning my bookshelf upside down... I love the look.

  • @mariokrizan1400
    @mariokrizan1400 Před 2 měsíci +1

    👌👌 As it is, if you listen to the final mix well on an NS10, it will turn out well everywhere, especially if the product is for radio or television stations.
    Years ago, almost all the studios where I have recorded had these speakers and they were placed both horizontally and vertically.
    Many studios had another couple of boxes to listen to after the product was finished. Greetings.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před 2 měsíci +1

      This is a commonly-held opinion. It's a shame they are no longer made.

  • @Weissman111
    @Weissman111 Před 5 měsíci

    Had my Tannoy 605 Mk 1s for nealry 30 years and they still sound great.

  • @tijgerhaai3
    @tijgerhaai3 Před rokem

    I used to work at a local radio station. For that I once had a workshop making jingles at the NOB. working in the studios of the public broadcaster. Equipment that makes you salivate as a local radio station technician. Made super cool jingles, you know how those things sound. But the tip of the NOB technician was that you can make a very nice final mix on this equipment. But if you can't follow it on a transistor radio, it makes no sense. So a speaker from an old cheap radio was literally connected to the mono bus. "If it sounds good on that, and can be followed, it's good"

  • @scottwolf8633
    @scottwolf8633 Před rokem +2

    Never noticed the resemblance to Paul until you mentioned it, but damn, don't know how I didn't observe it. BTW, I employ the 1st iteration of B&G's dipole, push-pull, planar magnetic, RD-57 built by Dave Graebener at Speakerlab, before B&G Corp was formed. It features a 54 inch long by 2 inch wide, diaphragm, 4 turn voice coil for Frequencies above 200Hz. Could never imagine them not vertical.

  • @mikesaunders4694
    @mikesaunders4694 Před rokem +1

    Paul M and Eric Idle……didn’t notice until you said it now I can’t get that image out of my head…..very funny!

    • @editingsecrets
      @editingsecrets Před rokem

      We've never seen all three of them in the same room, have we? We couldn't even trust a photo of them together at Abbey Road, he could have had his AI assistant stitch their pictures together.

  • @rodericogarcia
    @rodericogarcia Před rokem +1

    Having worked myself with a couple of NS10, I wouldn´t overlook the problem with frequency response as if it was a minor issue. Those dips and bumps in the highs may become a challenge when looking for a tonal balance. It´s not only a question of having the mix sounding "good" in the yamahas, it´s also about mixin while you are aware of which frequencies are boosted by this response, and which are atennuated. A complete mess of perception, in my opinion. I never got to feel comfortable with these.
    I have enjoyed some of the latest Genelec models, and my final choice for mixing has been Neumann KH120 + Kh750dsp- Measuring my mixing room and getting an "almost flat" response, at least in terms of tonal balance perception, adding an extended bass response down to 16Hz, finally got me having my mixes translate in many other places with much less struggle.
    The Neumanns offer a rather boring sound when you use them simply for listening to other music, but are surprisingly revealing in showing hidden details in records I had listened to a thousand times. The kind of tool that helps you to take decisions and achieve your goal sooner, and more confident.

  • @drewwilson1477
    @drewwilson1477 Před rokem +1

    Nothing better than listening to a true subject matter expert debunking folklore from the unwashed masses. Please keep it up. The truth needs to see the light of day. Cheers

  • @DonnieRiddimReggae
    @DonnieRiddimReggae Před rokem +1

    I like the way you communicate sir.

  • @aagevaksdal
    @aagevaksdal Před rokem +1

    Excellent choice! Whish I had a pair. Can you do a piece on studio monitor calibration? And has it any transferable value to a hi-fi consumer?

  • @radiovalkyrierecords5102

    My NS-10s have the labeling rightways up when they're vertical, but I use them horizontally. No worries.

  • @morbidmanmusic
    @morbidmanmusic Před rokem

    Glad I could help.

  • @Daves2024
    @Daves2024 Před rokem +2

    If it sounds good on the Yamaha, music will sound good on any speaker because the Yamaha NS 10’s have a reverse fletcher munson curve. Not my idea, Eric Alexander from Tekton speakers said that. And that makes sense.

  • @EgoShredder
    @EgoShredder Před rokem +1

    I agree with all the points you made, which matches my own experience. Like you I like mine stiff and errect....the monitors that is. If anyone wishes to get horizontal that is their private business!

  • @sonic2000gr
    @sonic2000gr Před rokem +11

    Also vertical orientation helps keeping the tweeter more or less at the same height as your ear, which is important for high frequencies (which are directional). So it would help with clarity and stereo imaging. And nice speakers BTW :D

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +12

      This is key. Monitors must be the right height or it doesn't matter how good they are. DM

    • @AnthonySigouin
      @AnthonySigouin Před rokem +2

      Exactly!

    • @carlosoliveira-rc2xt
      @carlosoliveira-rc2xt Před rokem

      Nonsense!

    • @carlosoliveira-rc2xt
      @carlosoliveira-rc2xt Před rokem

      Of course with speakers so horrible orientation couldn't possibly make them sound any worse.

    • @editingsecrets
      @editingsecrets Před rokem +1

      @@carlosoliveira-rc2xt He's just trying to be less disoriented by their dizzying response curve

  • @demondik
    @demondik Před rokem +3

    It might be strange but I got some Monsoon metal highs, pretty good mids and the subwoofer is even pretty good too! I got this for $4.99 at a garage sale! One of the channels connections was hosed but it only took about 2 mins to get the pins straight and I plugged it in! I thought I must be nuts but it sounds good! LOL I've got some good monitors and headphones but I still use these Monsson's for anything media on my PC!

  • @1622steve
    @1622steve Před rokem +3

    I've turned speakers backwards! In the musical instrument business, you're producing, not reproducing. My instruments were organs and carillons. Both sounds have a large indirect component. "Speakers forward" often gave too much direct sound. It certainly puzzled a lot of customers, but they couldn't argue with the sound.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +2

      It's a useful technique in theatre too. And of course the French horn fires to the rear. DM

    • @1622steve
      @1622steve Před rokem +2

      @@AudioMasterclass I used to play the French horn.

  • @medonk12rs
    @medonk12rs Před rokem +1

    Dude... ;) my ATC are GOLDEN!

  • @kampfire
    @kampfire Před rokem +8

    NS10's are the most critical speakers in my experience and was pleasantly surprised to hear him say what I learned 20+ years ago: If you can make your mix sound good on NS10's, then your mix will sound good on anything. This is why you'll notice most major recording studios had a pair of NS10's in them...

    • @pauldavies6037
      @pauldavies6037 Před 11 měsíci

      it creates a "standard " sound but not the best available

    • @rabarebra
      @rabarebra Před 10 měsíci

      "If you can make your mix sound good on NS10's, then your mix will sound good on anything"
      This is a myth created just because they were kind of standard in studios. It is the skills of the person that matters, not the speakers. Room and environment is the most critical, then the skills....

    • @ShabbyBroom
      @ShabbyBroom Před 10 měsíci

      @@rabarebra Hi, you seem to be misunderstanding my remark. NS10's are not just popular, they are critical in the sense that instead of pumping your mix through large JBLs, portable boom boxes, and running outside to your car to check your mix, if you get NS10's to sound good (obviously using your skills/ear because it's not easy), there's not much need to check the other monitors.

    • @rabarebra
      @rabarebra Před 10 měsíci

      @@ShabbyBroom I am not a newbie but a engineer. Where did I mention any use of large speakers only? NS10's are not critical to use. There are a bunch of speakers on the market you can use along with larger speakers to check your mixes.
      Cheers from a Mastering engineer whom like to be anonymous.

  • @Chris-St-DE
    @Chris-St-DE Před 4 měsíci

    I have one horizontally and one vertically. Sounds good.

  • @Sonnell
    @Sonnell Před rokem +3

    I am glad you got the path changes right. Since there are 2 drivers not one, your movement will change the length of the sound has to travel, and since you rarely move up and down but a lot side to side, a vertical orientation is better (as with 99% of speakers)
    Though your best bet is to place the speakers fruther away, if you can, and such problems get a lot less prominent.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +2

      Thank you for your comment, which I appreciate. Regarding placing the monitors further away, this would contradict their use as nearfield monitors. Even so, the best distance will depend largely on the room. DM

    • @rabarebra
      @rabarebra Před rokem +1

      Further away, no. They should be in a 30 degree axis with a joint just behind your back head. Then that axis hits your ears. The height is crucial, so flip them upside down if you want, horizontal or vertical, just make sure you got that axis right and tweeter and woofer right in the sweet-spot of each your ear (ear in the middle between woofer and tweeter).

  • @vassmarc1
    @vassmarc1 Před rokem +1

    We used to tape some tissue paper over the tweeters , they are very bright and fatiguing sounding speakers and are supposed to represent the average hifi speaker on the home . That was back in the late 80s early nineties. Horrid speakers , pretty much every studio had them .
    Thnx Eric McCartney 🙏🏼⭐️🥁

  • @Theupgradeguy
    @Theupgradeguy Před rokem

    I JUST got through telling a friend about your channel and how you could have been separated at birth from either Paul McCartney or Eric Idle. LOL! Love your channel. Very informative.

  • @soberhippie
    @soberhippie Před rokem +1

    0:04 Yeah, right. Pull the other one

  • @sallopiccolo7336
    @sallopiccolo7336 Před rokem

    I have the same speakers as you and I love them.

  • @witzendoz
    @witzendoz Před rokem +1

    My ns10’s are early versions and have the writing the other way, so when they are upright the writing is the correct way up.

  • @Lous_taunau
    @Lous_taunau Před 8 měsíci

    Wise man, wise words.

  • @ahareally
    @ahareally Před rokem

    I guess this clears up my confusion about a setup I recently saw in a video (by Andrew Masters) of Tim Pierce's home studio, where he has his Adam Audio S3a monitors placed vertically. Besides the manual mentioning they are supposed to be placed horizontally due to the position of the "woofer-midrange units" - I assume - it's not THAT big of a deal (at least how he uses them).
    Great channel - superb content!
    Cheers :)

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem

      I don't know of any speakers that look more intentionally horizontal but if there was any reason to mount them vertically I'd certainly give it a try. DM

  • @JaviBello
    @JaviBello Před 3 měsíci

    I've ben using my original 1978 Yamaha NS10s as main monitor for maybe 10 years now. I used them on 4 or 5 places since I bought them, and half of the time I've used them vertical, as they're supposed to be. The other half of the time(and right now) I'm using them horizontally. Never been able to hear a difference in response or performance. In other monitors I had with horns, the difference was obvious instantly when you flip them. People saying that the orientation is wrong, clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, and of course never used their ears(or had a pair of NS10s hahaha)

  • @DWHarper62
    @DWHarper62 Před rokem

    As long as the tweeters are at ear level, you can mount them any which way... Using them vertically, as you said, allows the listener to move horizontally and not have any phase/freq. response problems. Since we normally don't move our heads up and down when listening but do normally move a little left or right, you will get the most accurate response using them vertically... Just don't stand up... LOL... I have Kali Audio LP-6 monitors which are becoming the budget standard and very accurate for the money...

  • @UCS0608
    @UCS0608 Před rokem

    I agree with the fact that you should have speakers that you can use to hear if your mix sounds ok on "any" speaker, but I absolutely want to have a real good set of speakers to check the soundbalance of the mix. So, not too much low, mids or highs etc. However, the levels (with a little focussing on vocals) I usually decide on speakers like this, on a rather low volume, because almost every mix sounds good on high volume... 😏
    But I really think there are good alternatives for the, imho, way too expensive (occasion) Yamaha's. I used to have them, but sold them a long time ago, for a good price. Nowadays I use a set of Adam ANF10s and they are more than ok and you can find them used for a nice price.
    I still have two mid 70s Auratones somewhereShould start using them again. 😄
    Btw, I love your videos! 👍

  • @Jesse615
    @Jesse615 Před rokem +1

    I think it was none other than Bob Clearmountain who started using the NS-10s (and porting them around with him).

  • @zer0tzer0
    @zer0tzer0 Před rokem +2

    That has always been said of NS 10s. The speaker so lackluster that if it sounds good on them it'll sound better on anything else. I don't think they were even Studio Monitors originally. It's just that so many engineers and producers were using them as near fields that Yamaha jumped on the Band Wagon and started putting that on the front. The HS series are flatter, though not much better. But eventually White Coned Yamahas were ubiquitous in studios. So much so, that if they weren't in your studio, people questioned whether it was Pro, so of course I have them. And they look so cool. But, of course, I have to hear my mixes on a Jambox and in the car, headphones, etc... to really know what's going on. It was ever thus. Cassettes for the ride home.

  • @teckelteckels2730
    @teckelteckels2730 Před rokem +2

    Nice video. I have the same speakers. I used to have them horizontal but have recently been experimenting with them in vertical position while I'm in the process of moving my studio round. People always comment that I've got them set up wrong but as you point out - They can be used both ways. I've found out the expensive way that it's important to drive these with a decent amp with plenty of power. Replacement drivers aren't cheap, or even easy to find.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +8

      With great power comes great responsibility. With little power comes clipping and blown tweeters. DM

    • @naibafabdulkobor4301
      @naibafabdulkobor4301 Před rokem +1

      @@AudioMasterclass Brillant! And so true. 😁

    • @fredfox3851
      @fredfox3851 Před rokem +1

      @@AudioMasterclass OOH! I may have just found my epitaph. : )

    • @klinkske
      @klinkske Před rokem +1

      The first version was tweeters up. They just changed the print. It s the same speaker. But now it s ‘studio’ - it s just a trick to,sell them

    • @allanmoorhead9492
      @allanmoorhead9492 Před rokem

      @@AudioMasterclass I thought that the "over-driven amplifier blowing tweeters" thing was a myth, though I've seen it stated many times in various books on loudspeaker design and home audio.
      If it's true, shouldn't Metallica's "Death Magnetic" album be blowing tweeters? Ordinary guitar distortion effects are produced by clipping the waveform, yet I never hear about loud guitar music blowing tweeters.
      I've read about tests which found that the harmonics produced by clipping aren't powerful enough to blow tweeters.
      The logical thing to do is to buy an amplifier which is powerful enough that you don't need to set the volume near maximum for whatever your listening conditions and preferences are, and buy speakers with a power rating that can handle the maximum power from that amplifier.

  • @soundssimple1
    @soundssimple1 Před 9 měsíci

    NS10 in whatever flavour with or without the tweeter covered with tissue paper, if good enough for Bob Clearmountain then should be good enough for the rest of us as a reference. Great video as always.

  • @borisgrigull7772
    @borisgrigull7772 Před rokem +1

    Someone one bought a bass guitar from a Music shop and was really impressed. So i went to the music shop and mentioned that someone I knew had bought a bass guitar from them and it was great and they were happy, And the shop assistant chirped up and was clearly proud to hear about a happy customer, then I said I was confused, I didnt realize there was such a thing as a bass guitar that didnt sound good..... The speakers a fine, Our heads are all wrong....

  • @bear-headstudios1212
    @bear-headstudios1212 Před rokem

    I have Yamaha NS a380a and love them

  • @jagmarc
    @jagmarc Před rokem +1

    Before I lost my hearing upper register the monitor's tweeters always had to be square-on perpendicular & equidistant. Vertical has advantage I find better viewing through controlroom window

    • @jagmarc
      @jagmarc Před rokem +1

      Oh and a pair of substitution closedbox tinny little speakers are great for hearing how it translates

  • @Not123Or
    @Not123Or Před 2 měsíci

    Your speakers are spot on. I've compared many speakers, the ones i've kept are NS-10M STUDIO. Make sure to not get non-STUDIO, i really dislike those.

  • @keithneal5369
    @keithneal5369 Před rokem +2

    Very well explained article. I'm still using 30 year old tannoy 609 mk2s , dial concentric speakers and I dont think that it would make any difference to the sound whichever way they were orientated as long ss the center of the driver Is about head height. Lots of studios used tannoys for this reason. Easy to set up and consistent in quality.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +3

      Yes, there's something about those Tannoys. The proper ones of course. DM

    • @keithneal5369
      @keithneal5369 Před rokem +1

      @@AudioMasterclass I do realise that there is a huge difference between studio monitors and domestic speakers from the same manufacturer. I also understand the shape and size of the room your system is in has a huge effect on the sound. Our rooms here in the UK are generally a lot smaller than those in the USA. . This does influence the choices I have regarding loudspeakers I can accommodate. And my rooms are larger than the average.

  • @petertimp5416
    @petertimp5416 Před 11 měsíci

    Haha…don’t forget baffle reflection for the tweeter.😊

  • @Bluelagoonstudios
    @Bluelagoonstudios Před rokem

    You stated it right, they are reference speakers, I have different types on my desk, even small pc speakers. Because the music that you master must sound "great" on smaller devices too, and if I want to test the material wonderful, then I go to my car, that's also a reference. With the years you learn these techniques.

    • @jnn6201
      @jnn6201 Před rokem

      Wasn't it Phil Spector who always played the final mix through a cheap 3-inch speaker, to make sure the song worked on the speaker most people would first hear it on (the car or a handheld transistor radio)? Or am I mixing him up with some other producer from that era?

  • @PorchBass
    @PorchBass Před rokem +3

    You do consider lobing in the crossover regionand yes diagonal would fix that offset in theory! Also edge diffraction will be different I suspect vertical mount gives a more consistent dispersion through the treble.
    Fascinating stuff. No wrong really all speakers are terrible with square waves anyway

    • @naturalverities
      @naturalverities Před 11 měsíci +1

      "...really all speakers are terrible with square waves anyway..." True, however, some are less terrible than others. And I believe the difference is audible.

    • @PorchBass
      @PorchBass Před 11 měsíci +1

      @@naturalverities definitely! Isn't it like the Platonic solids - the perfect square wave only exists in our minds!?!

  • @TTTzzzz
    @TTTzzzz Před rokem +1

    As long as it sounds good. Up, down or sideways, your ears are the judge.

  • @c128stuff
    @c128stuff Před rokem +1

    Yes, revealing speakers which make you hear all the problems are the thing for monitoring.

  • @ONESNZER0S
    @ONESNZER0S Před rokem

    Love this....

  • @donaldbundy3499
    @donaldbundy3499 Před rokem

    I prefer reference monitors to be positioned or mounted vertically like yours. That puts the time alignment at the speaker's crossover point to be more in alignment. No I do not raise my wiring off the floor.

  • @user-gg4is6db4u
    @user-gg4is6db4u Před 4 měsíci

    I stick with my monitors because I have used them for years and know them through and through!

  • @AudioGuyBrian
    @AudioGuyBrian Před 11 měsíci

    I have a unique situation where my speakers are sitting directly on a tile floor upside down with the super tweeters and tweeters in my 4-way Sansui speakers are only inches from the floor. I had to do this because I have a 150" pulldown theater screen and it blocks the speakers except for the bottom 8" which is unobstructed. So they still sound good during movies as the fronts, I have compensated for the strange layout with my 30 band EQ's so I get great sound even with screen down.

  • @MariJu1ce
    @MariJu1ce Před rokem +7

    absolutely love ns10s, with a good amp like a bryston they sound much better than people say. I have actually not heard a speaker that I like the transient response as much as these, ns10s feel fast and tight and i really like the papery sound. I feel the papery sound is so much more natural than for example dynaudios or Atc with different material for the cone. I also much prefer the sound of a closed enclosure to ported speakers. Also the lack of sub helps me focus on the midrange in the mix. Ns10s just work for me, but may not work for other people tough, there is definitely a learning curve also. There is also something with 2-way speakers that i find sound less plastic/phasy than 3-way speakers. They may not sound flattering to clients, but they help me make much better mixes than I did with other speakers. The only thing that matters in the end is how the mix sounds outside the studio ofc.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +1

      We're speaking the same language. DM

    • @EgoShredder
      @EgoShredder Před rokem +1

      Totally agree and especialy about 3-way designs.

    • @MobiusMinded
      @MobiusMinded Před rokem

      Try a pair of ProAcs

    • @MariJu1ce
      @MariJu1ce Před rokem

      @@MobiusMinded arent proacs ported? They look interesting tho, maybe they work for me. They certainly work for serban :)

    • @MobiusMinded
      @MobiusMinded Před rokem

      @@MariJu1ce I didn’t know that about Serban, though he’s mixed a few things I’ve done. Rick Rubin would always bring in a pair. Of course you want a really good amp. Bryston 4b, or equivalent.

  • @hellomeatrobots
    @hellomeatrobots Před rokem +1

    I'm relieved, I was afraid you were going to tell me that my speakers were wrong.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +3

      Nothing's wrong if it suits you and gets the job done. DM

    • @thepuma2012
      @thepuma2012 Před rokem

      i thought that too. I do have my bookshelf too low, which is on the floor. Gotta do something about that 🥴

    • @editingsecrets
      @editingsecrets Před rokem

      @@AudioMasterclass Except clipping the master!

  • @analogkid4557
    @analogkid4557 Před rokem +1

    My monitors are flat within 4 db from 18 hz to well beyond 20khz ( tweeters go to 45k) in my room, but if I want to hear just the midrange, I put a highpass and lowpass on my mix to see how it sounds.

  • @mrboat580
    @mrboat580 Před 10 měsíci

    I listen to my old budget JBL monitors vertical. They even made it to where you could twist the JBL logo 90 degrees in which to accommodate this. I have 9 pairs of speakers that I use in rotation, or set up in multiple systems in my home at times, all of which are wrong. Been listening near field for 50+ years by now, starting with the suitcase Victrola arranged on the floor when I was a lad, with 45s scattered allover the rug. That close-up listening habit followed me throughout life, even when the equipment became much larger.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před 10 měsíci

      I certainly like the detail I hear when listening close-to. DM

  • @Projacked1
    @Projacked1 Před rokem +1

    LOL, the smart-ass comments here 😂.
    So much technical blabla , while the video already explains everything. Hilarious.
    They have to vent I guess.

  • @Ab20222
    @Ab20222 Před 10 měsíci

    I enjoy your videos very much. What’s your opinion about coaxial drivers?

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před 10 měsíci

      Possibly it might raise a flurry but I might say they should all be this way. But a proper HF driver not a whizzer cone. DM

    • @Ab20222
      @Ab20222 Před 10 měsíci

      @@AudioMasterclass Have you ever built one? Would you like to make a video about it comparing with your other builds?

  • @motorax.service.motociclete

    Omg, who didn't knew these SUPER basic reasons, can say don't know a damn about speakers in general and sound. Still amazed you had to explain these reasons. This was a hard one😂 🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @Jack96993
    @Jack96993 Před rokem +1

    I've never considered mounting my Maggie's horizontal 😅

  • @lindsayweir4931
    @lindsayweir4931 Před rokem

    i expected the worst from this title, but very reasonable takes! i’ll check out some more of your content

  • @vladdyvansavage8760
    @vladdyvansavage8760 Před rokem

    fascinating stuff, been using Yamaha HS5 vertically for couple of years and they're clean and detailed sounding but very fatiguing to listen to so got Pioneer Andy James bookshelf speakers and tried mixing on them with varying results still gotta check my song mixes often on open headphones like DT990, Shp9500 and on the ole Iphone, and since i'm in Oz we do things upside down here, and break the audio recording rules.

    • @Dr_Beat
      @Dr_Beat Před rokem

      Because its not a NS10

  • @Hermiel
    @Hermiel Před rokem +1

    I've definitely notied the Paul resemblance. Eric Idle... That's a bit of a stretch. _Eh? Eh? Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge! Say no more!_

  • @Grimwriggler
    @Grimwriggler Před rokem

    I have this issue with quad els 57s , they have to be positioned high way more those little legs they came with. mine are now placed on wooden bar stools . i have found that unconventional placing and positioning of speakers often yields dramatic improvements. your room your speakers, your ears so experiment

  • @Comedy4cast
    @Comedy4cast Před rokem +1

    I assumed the background, including the speakers, was simply a static image via a greenscreen. So, I learned something today.
    By the way, did you do the speaking character. If so, any info on how you did it? Either way, carry on!

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +1

      It's a photograph of my room on a green screen background. I only had to tidy my desk once. As for Betty, she likes to keep her secrets secret. DM

  • @fredygump5578
    @fredygump5578 Před rokem +1

    LOL! Apparently you underestimate the determination of youtube commenters! I might have gone on at length to explain that the relationship between the two drivers to themselves and to the baffle does not change when the speaker is rotate. And I would like to note that if I stood on my head while listening to the speakers in their "correct" orientation, they would still sound the same! It's good to be thorough! :)

  • @BennyFade
    @BennyFade Před rokem

    Thank you for the nice video, I can see audio now

  • @TheFRiNgEguitars
    @TheFRiNgEguitars Před rokem

    correct !!!

  • @OrangeMicMusic
    @OrangeMicMusic Před 11 měsíci

    Another brilliant video :)
    Misunderstanding tends to breed misinformation, which is often disseminated by well-meaning amateurs: those whose knowledge of a subject is sketchy are always prey to the intuitively plausible but utterly wrong explanation for one phenomenon or another.
    You can place it however you want. Why?
    Because NS10 began its life as a domestic hi-fi speaker in '78, but it was relatively poorly received and quickly faded towards obscurity.
    Later on, in the mid '80's after few mixing engineers used it, Yamaha decided to re-brand it 'NS10M Studio'.
    That's it. Nothing "magic". Use it, do mixes and be happy🙂

  • @ramblinginmeath4950
    @ramblinginmeath4950 Před rokem +2

    My trusty Lintons do a mighty fine job - pushed by the Leak Stereo 130.. and its my personal taste .. greetings from Ireland

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +2

      Wharfedale Lintons. One wonders vintage or heritage. DM

    • @EgoShredder
      @EgoShredder Před rokem +3

      My dad worked at the Rank Wharfedale factory in Idle, Bradford in the early to mid 1970s. At home back then we had a LEAK 2000 amp with Wharfedale Denton 2XP (1971 - 1973) speakers. Lovely sound although not audiophile.

    • @ramblinginmeath4950
      @ramblinginmeath4950 Před rokem

      @@AudioMasterclass I have the Heritage ..

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +1

      @@ramblinginmeath4950 Very sensible. But there's be a hi-fi fiend out there somewhere who thinks you're not getting the authentic experience. DM

  • @imnickleonard
    @imnickleonard Před rokem +2

    Nice looking speakers. I don’t give a bollox about optimal sound, if they look pretty and the sound is good. Good enough.

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před rokem +2

      They're so nice looking people seem to want to poke the dust caps. You'll rarely see one that isn't dented. DM

  • @wojciechczupta9185
    @wojciechczupta9185 Před 11 měsíci

    ATC studio monitors have two places to mount high freq driver, so that it remains above mid range regardless of vertical or horizontal placement. I guess they may sound different to some extent or maybe it is to keep left and right drivers more separated from each other in near field?

    • @AudioMasterclass
      @AudioMasterclass  Před 11 měsíci

      If the midrange and tweeter are mounted horizontally then small side to side movements of the head will affect the sound. If vertically, then up and down movements. For most purposes I believe vertical is best, although there's no real solution other than dual concentric. DM

  • @headfirstonly
    @headfirstonly Před rokem

    My Focals havs passive radiators on the side, so I'm stuck with vertical. But you've got me wondering whether there's money to be made in making bespoke angled stands for the Yamahas to put the tweeter directly above the main driver...