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Who Is REALLY Topping DPS In Phase 3? | Wrath Classic | Trial of the Grand Crusader
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2023
- With Phase 3 and Trial of the Grand Crusader underway, I decided to do an update on my DPS tier list in Wrath Classic.
From the start of Ulduar until now, we have seen a huge shift in the dps meta. Factors such as buffed Ulduar item levels, class changes, and ofc the new raid as well as the heroic loot system have all played a part in this.
Today we look at Who Is REALLY Topping DPS In Phase 3? | Wrath Classic | Trial of the Grand Crusader
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Here is a fun video idea for you: can you make a "retail beginners guide for classic players"? Like if we're not completely new to the game but have no idea about retail gameplay loop and meta
30 MM hunters disliked this video
Who to see disliked?
Pretty sure Totem of Wrath does not stack with Demonic Pact.
How the interaction actually works is that the Demo lock can benefit from a Totem of Wrath upon the first application of Demonic Pact.
this is correct. ToW does not stack with demo pact.
Yeah if you've ever played the game you know it doesn't stack. It's worth having to buff the demo lock but that's not what I would call "stacking"
It stacked early p1 but was a bug and they fixed it ASAP.
They don’t stack, but you keep it down to boost the warlocks sp for the pact boost. Once pact is out, they swap their fire totem.
He said the bonus spell power, so he is talking about the glyph - When you cast Totem of Wrath, you gain 30% of the totem's bonus spell power for 5 min. - which does stack with Demonic Pact
Demo lock main here: your comment on ele shaman's totem of wrath stacking is only half right. It makes demonic pact bigger but doesn't technically stack in the expected way. Expect a ~30 spell power net gain if you have a demo lock and add a ele shaman as opposed to the 280 you'd expect from true stacking.
Exactly right. Have Totem of Wrath down for the very first application of Pact and it'll be about 30 bigger. There's no need to have Totem of Wrath down for the remainder of the fight unless it's for the crit debuff as the spellpower portion will be overwritten by the pact from then on for the remainder of the fight.
Can confirm, have Death's Choice[H] & 4set, dps increase is frankly bonkers especially on Anub, doing 2x the dps than a lot of other raiders. It's a shame that UH DK will drop off a lot in ICC as some of our BiS is already from this phase and Comet's Trail from Alg25, but in our dadgamer guild I'm the only UH DK so at least I'll stay useful (^_^)
Imagine if they didn't nerf haste snapshotting
Trap weaving is definitely not a new discovery haha
Thank you for mentioning Hunter chores they do cost us some dam for sure
Stats are skewed because of 4pc/trinket prio too. Give it about a month more to stabilize
You said totem of wrath stacks with demonic pact? from everything i've heard and seen this doesn't seem to be the case, unless it was changed?
agreed, i dont think it does. can someone verify this, did he make a mistake saying they stack?
@@johneibert8328 They don't stack but optimal play calls for dropping totem of wrath and then letting the demo lock get the +280 spellpower for his initial pack, then dropping fire ele once demo pact is up
They don’t stack but the demo locks sp buff snap shots the totem of wrath’s sp bonus
@@NickPopusBro classic is so convoluted with all the minmaxing lmao
@@Xfacta12482 It's half the fun honestly, the little details of optimisation.
A lot of the UH Dks got their 4pc and some even DC prio'd very early, so their damage is quite insane right now. They will probably stay near the top for this phase, but the problem is that it doesn't really get much better than this for them. They'll keep using their 4 set from TOGC as well as their trinkets (comet's trail and death's verdict) in ICC. I still expect them to be at least A tier though.
They will only get more busted as fights get shorter...
@@bachstrad1994 which isnt the case in ICC ...
frost is gonna be the main spec for ICC and gonna be S tier although they do get out dps'd by smourne warriors and fully bis hunters and mages
@@MultiSuitonfrost gonna be top in ICC? Hell yea I hope so ulduar was kinda painful
What you're saying about hunter is strange, I was expecting you to say MM was starting to catch up thanks to Arm Pen being more available. Speaking with the main hunter in my guild we both agreed that we would probably look at MM later in the patch (just before ICC). Also you're 100% right that Explosive trap should not be better than Black arrow for single target (or, in my opinion anything less than packs of mobs)
As I heard and experienced is that armor pen is not enuff. And to reach the hard cap you re basically endgame geard where it won't matter anymore. Survival will be better dps wise? But ppl may tend to play mm because of raid support.
it is wc logs is not relevant to how the game is actually played...😂
MM obviously scales better from AP than survival, but it scales off weapon damage more than AP. Also, the 4-3-4 ES rotation has a lot to do with why survival is still so much better.
never got why people hated the pvep in TOC raid... i loved it!
it was free loot!
I hated the idea because I was bad back then. Having played mobas and some arena I get it now, still wish that I could use things like mana burn or mind control in this fight for instance rather just fear that the npc dispels after 1.5 seconds.
I finally got a fucking weapon I've had the geared now I'm staying top 3 dps every fight with my ret pally
What do you mean hunters have found that trapweaving is strong and 434? It's been a thing since phase 1 😂
since vanilla...;)
I love playing arms and since Ulduar I have the chance to be the supporter in my guilds 25 as both our rogues dont want to play combat. Now I have just reached the hardcap for AP and Have therfore discarded the runestone. I am really excited to see If it shows next ID.
Ret actually doing good in the TOGC fights. Hoping the scaling continues into ICC
Look T10 2Set bonus
Scaling isn't what's going to make ret explode, it's t10 2p. That set bonus is why ret was awful at the start of Wrath classic--the "last patch" nature of classic included balancing changes (read: nerfs) meant to make rets w/2p not game breaking.
@@harmstrongg what nerfs did ret receive in the last patch of Wrath? hint: the answer is none
@@Whitesmoked what nerfs to damage output? Link me the patch notes. Ret was awful in Ulduar in OG Wrath after being nerfed very early in the expansion.
@@bachstrad1994 3.2 removal of Martyr and RV changes as soon as ICC started testing. The resulting final state of Wrath had Ret basically balanced around t10 2p, and the lack of martyr and some other changes had classic rets doing like half the damage they did in OG in Naxx/Uld.
This is why the glyph was introduced.
haha 3:19 with the face animations was good. warlock poggers
just saying…the players at the top end of the skill cap for spriest are doing more damage than most other casters
"Ret pallys have had a roller coaster experience in WotLK" TRUE BROTHER, TRUE
Eagerly awaiting your "So You Want To Play Hardcore Shaman" guide!
Hunter is also a little more behind because explosive trap doesn't work at all on twin valks. There is a way to do it, but it requires warlocks, tanks and healers to do extra to make a temporary hostile demon to trap off of.
Do you get a chance to trap? I'm always soaking on that fight. I feel hunter is lagging behind as WillE said with MD's and other mechanics.
@Urikhai you can get a few chances to trap on that fight, but it depends on rng of orb locations and such. Or just convince your raid leader to make someone else soak it for the night. If you have your raid doing the lock pet strat, it's assumed you are not playing goalie, as it's a strat that hurts the raid to let the hunter parse.
Of they made valks trappabke normally the hubter playing goalie would still have a few chances to trap, it just wouldn't be every time, you would still mix in black arrows dependant on orbs. But if you are on goalie, remember that you not only have to not have any nearby white orbs to grab, but no black orbs are about to hit the stack either. (Or vice versa depending on which color your group uses for goalie)
There's definitely opportunity to trap-weave as a soaker. Especially if you macro disengage with your ExploTrap. Even more so if you got nitro boots. It just bottoms to timing and how good of a goal keeper the hunter is. Its just unfortunate we can't trap the Twins. At least make the hit box annoying like Kologarn and have it be possible of the hunter alone.@@Urikhai
14:00 Afflic, Unholy and Fire Mage; good choices
Main reason melee with cleave are going up is mainly due to the availability of valid cleavce dmg for logs in p3 rather than gear.
that's undeniably true but some of the melee classes greatly scale from gear such as warriors with arm pen.
@@lovesandwich8783 armor pen is extremely overrated and overhyped, yes it scales melee and physical damage deals greatly but it's already been proven that warriors and other classes can't really compete on single target even in ICC bis compared to let's say an unholy dk because of how warcraftlogs chooses what dmg counts and what doesn't towards a parse. Yes warriors might look great on the meters on a ton of fights, it did in Ulduar even but most of the ad damage was not counted towards parse and made them look a lot weaker than they are, meaning yesa armor pen is best stat to stack but it doesn't matter, Unholy dk and affli lock and even now fire mage will find ways to outshine everyone by a huge margin due to how exploitative warcraftlogs encourages players to play.
@@gonzalezruben8503interesting opinion
you mention aff lock at 14:00 but then show demo lock footage - not sure if this was intended but just want to point it out in case it is an error
Boomkin scaling drops off because we've been soft haste-capped since P1 and now we're soft crit-capped in P3. We only scale strongly with spell power which feels bad. If blizzard dropped GCD to 0.75s like they "accidentally" had it at the start of TBC, boomkins could actually compete.
Boomie is my second character, not especially well geared - and the haste soft cap is a pain in the arse. Being GCD locked just feels bad - meaning if I don't get a Lunar Eclipse during Bloodlust my DPS barely goes up because I'm just casting Wrath too quickly.
perhaps they could do that, but only for druids
Hunter actually wouldn't benefit much if they didn't have to soak on Twin Valks because the Valks don't proc their traps. If you've ever pugged with more than 3 hunters in a raid you'll notice the stack Hunters aren't doing much more damage than the soak Hunters. They do more damage than the soak hunters by virtue of being able to have 100% uptime and not having to move away from Light Vortex like other DPS specs but not being able to access about 30% of their damage ensures this is a very mid spec. Faction Champions is also a fight where they can't use their traps and Icehowl is extremely RNG if they can use their traps and Gormock is just the worst boss in the game because you have like a 1/5 chance of just not getting to do any damage if a Snobold jumps on your face and you just have to AFK for 20 seconds. Your best ability just doesn't work on almost 3/5 bosses in the instance.
Surv is a top 5 spec on Jaraxxus, Faction Champs and Anub but the majority of this instance just has a passive 30% debuff for Hunters. The basic fact that Hunters are still a mid tier spec despite not being able to access 30% of their damage on half the raid speaks volumes for how good this spec actually is and being a top 5 spec on Faction Champs, a fight that also locks the majority of every classes AOE is showing just how good this spec actually is doing, it's just Beasts was designed to fuck over Hunters specifically and Twin Valks is just bugged
Regarding hunters on twins, there is a big difference between soaking vs stacking, and it’s not just the movement - you’re also hitting an un-debuffed target, usually without JoW unless there’s a pala tanking.
@@davidt5194 Even then the average stacking hunter does about 11-12k and the soaking Hunters should be doing about 9-10k. Sounds impressive until you realize that the other specs in the game should be averaging about 15-18k DPS.
And we're ignoring the best dps specs in our rankings otherwise we're pushing 18-20k. Hunters just not having access to ~30% of their damage on that fight because the boss is technically not touching the ground kills the entire class.
What makes trap weaving on XT even worse is that the heart doesn't actually trigger the trap. xD
Even though surv isn't the top dps anymore, you can still stay pretty competitive due to relatively low gear competition, especially during the progression phase.
Yes to both those things. With XT I learned to time my pre-trap so that I'd have it off cooldown a few seconds before the heart phase (which had mixed results, sometimes RNG wasn't with me and 'too much' DPS was done). Gear as the only Hunter is a luxury I can't imagine having with any other class and my average item level is grossly inflated even though I'm not being given prio on trinkets and jewellery - and even then since I'm not after ArP or Haste I'm often the only person who wants certain items.
now after they fixed some specs with glyphs, how about a major glyph for the boomies that increases lunar eclipse procchance to 100% on a crit.
im fucking sick and tired of seeing my solar eclipse get of cooldown before my lunar ecplise procs with 50% effective crit on wrath
Glad to see ferals doing better.
Agreed! Finally enough pen and crit!
My Feral friend is really happy now. Still complains every time she has to form shift to Innervate or Rez, and if the tanks fidget the boss around she gets quite irritable. Which makes me laugh, honestly.
yeah a 10% damage buff will do that...
Pfft i wrecked with my pally before it was easy and i wrecked with my druid before it was cool now that shit is lame truth be told its all about the warriors
for hunters rn, if you can get 2 piece last tier and 2 piece this, your serpent keeps up 343 a lot more
What are you even saying ? 🤣
Where did you read about Dancing Runeweapon fixes??? Searched in all Hotfix Blueposts but didnt find it
Glad i benched my hunter after tbc. Hated the aspect of viper change and how beastmaster turned into a leveling spec.
hunters are also the only ranged class that cant dps on beasts with a kobold on their back. (assuming you bring it into the melee stack to get cleaved). overall we are cucked this phase
lemme just sit here and chew on Gormok's ankle with raptor strike and cry while I watch my dps suffer 😢
@@kvetcherkit Sucks to suck.
As a hunter main, I'm very concerned going into ICC. MM was predicted to be an S tier dps in TOGC b4 wrath, and it's barely above meme specs. If Surv scaling doesn't keep up in ICC we will be a dps class without a competitive dps spec in the end game.
don't say that you don't know how high they will scale my friend :D
You will at least be needed for tranqing enraged mobs on p1 LK if that's any consolation :D
Who was predicting MM to be S tier? Even sims were showing that survival is still better in ICC. Also no logs from original wotlk show MM as any kind of top dps
@@Bartooc Pretty much any tier list made before wrath classic released. WoWhead tier list, warmane tier lists on youtube (which are hard to find now since all the results are current tier lists, but there is this one for ICC where MM is S tier: czcams.com/video/GH7OoyicN-0/video.html
@@unbr3akable688 Gnev uses SS as S tier practically speaking and his SS is what others have as S so no, Marksman was never assumed to be S tier and I've never seen it being placed at the very top on any list.
The S tier (meaning the highest tier) has always been Fire mage, Fury warrior and Combat rogue.
remember when ppl cryed that unholy is an unplayable dead spec? i shure do and i say the same thing now that i said then, be lucky your garry doesnt get clobal capped like it used to be in wrath
Hmm I haven't played WoW in over 5 years until WOTLKC launched and p1-p3 were my first raiding experiences ever, as well as first time playing enhancement shaman, and as someone who went from gray-blue parsing Naxx to being 99 on a bunch of fights in Ulduar/TOGC even as Alliance, as well as seeing myself constantly top 3 DPS-wise, I still don't get why Enhancement is so overlooked and isn't A tier? Sure there are fights where ranged classes or spellpower classes have huge advantage in DPS, but as a whole I was always very content with where Enh is and I love seeing myself up there in top 5 in most fights even in a high performing guild.
>coming back for WoTLK and not TBC
Why dont you just type "DISREGARD MY OPINIONS" 500 times in a row before you start your posts?
Enhance is solid, amazing in TOGC considering the stationary cleave. But I think that your experience can be chalked up to you being a much better player than the rest of your guild rather than Enhance being A tier
Main problem with Enhancement in my guild is ours dies on the pull so often because he's got zero chill. He regularly gets splatted by Jaraxxus before the tank has even done their first attack (and is often the only death during the fight - its so easy that it upsets me), gets rezzed and then still comes pretty high in the meters. If he could learn even a moment of patience he'd probably be the best DPS in the guild (or top three, at least).
@@booradley6832 who hurt you?
@@booradley6832 TBC is the worst of the Vanilla-TBC-WoTLK Trio, Mr Greentext Andy.
"They're not goint to buff arms and mm because they have another spec"
Le blizzard buffing ret palas when they have SSS tier tank and SSS tier heal spec
MM does not need help for the same reason frost mage, arms war, sub rogue, destro lock doesnt need help. These are the pvp specs of the class. They dont need to be bis for pve as well.
Also MM is pretty dull compared to Survival. Every time I had to switch to MM I was sad the entire raid.
@andromidius Yeah i agree, surv is funto play
Your logic stops when you realize that pretty much every mage plays fire in pvp. The “it is a pvp spec” is a boomer take. Blizzard was just not able to balance them
@Blubking1 Many play frost for pvp. Fire wasnt as popular back then for pvp like it is now. And arcane was very popular for pve, which is really bad for competitive pvp. blizzard have always done this on purpose. Dont act like the logic i used is false. There are some a lot of classes with good pvp specs and good pve specs that are not good in both
@@H-D-D your logic is still flawed. Its just bad balancing on blizzards end, which is expected in 2008. It isn't because a spec is doomed as pvp and another as pve. I just gave you an example for that with fire. Look up the top 500 players and tell me when you find a frost mage which is the supposed pvp spec
Imo beat mastery found its home in Titan Rune dungeons. Fast attack speeds for mirror images and wraps while your pet does "some" dps is nice
what a great PVE spec...
Depending on the fight, my Hunter is doing quite well. I use warcraft logs to get a general idea of how good my DPS is compared to my guild mates (I'm not going to on be par with the parsing guilds - that requires everyone to be a pumper).
Currently I do the most damage on Northrend Beasts and have a lower parse percentage then our best Warlock who is just behind - suggesting Hunter is very favoured on that fight for some reason or another. Meanwhile I struggle to stay out of the bottom five on Twins due to being a soaker and being unable to drop traps (can't trigger on floating enemies).
Warlock seems to be consistently very strong, though.
Try MM on Twins, I get better DPS output than with Surv due to inability to use traps.
@@yannicdelafuente796 You might be right there - I get no (or little) benefit from Sniper Training too since I never get to stand still for very long. I might try it next reset.
Honestly it just means that your warlock is bad.
To my fellow rets, your bis is wrong unless you have 4 heroic teir pcs, which is not really realistic til perhaps late phase. 2pc and cruel intent heroic chest yeilds much fatter reselults IMHO (sims back this up). Also no one other than enhance shammy will want that chest
Blood if in the hands of a good player does more dps than arcane and demo and close to frost so being D tier is a farce. Should be B tier especially if close to if not full BIS gear
I’m bummed I missed out on wrath classic, just didn’t have the time.
I fucking went blood dps just to see how it was compared to frost. I think its pretty good ended up being like 7th overall in my raid. And an officer in my guild told me not to play cause some people were angry, how you gonna be angry at me when theres a bunch under me SMH.
I wouldnt say that everything is right or argued correctly, but the major thing to keep in mind is that this tier list is made very early into the patch, therefore its very in favor for classes which get a high dps increase through small/fast upgrades. Best example is ret, they get a crazy dps increase due to their new book (600 Dps or something) which acquires basically no effort to get. Therefore they seem like starting to pump, compared to the other classes Dps gain in this small time window, but they actually arent. I dont see a world where ret is actually A tier DPS in TOC, but for now it could be low A.
curious to see where the hybrid demo/destro spec is in this list. seems decent
I think it's too obscure and geared pure destro should beat out demo and the hybrid
wasnt survival hunter supposed to only be the best hunter spec in phase 1. Guess they were way off on that.
FERAL!
Shadow priest are actually alot better on most meters than anyone has expected. On my server they are usually top 3-5.
Unholy is dogshit in classic. In vanilla you'd be using double deaths choice with 258 t9 and snapshotting for so much damage.
(surv) Hunters have to many jobs to do and traps dont work on twins, thats why they're down there but its still the most fun spec imo! But I hope icc will be better for traps ^^
Yeah, I like playing my ret more in TOGC because I don't have all those responsibilities. Plus don't you just love as hunter when you get a kobold and have to run into the melee cleave and chew on Gormok's ankle and cry while your dps suffers? 😂
In icc Marksman becomes a monster in dps with troll race 100 % Armor pen cap
@@DocSherif The MM copium is real. We are one phase away from ICC and MM is barely above meme specs like BM. I def think MM hunters need a fix, this is simply not how MM was represented in original Wrath, similar to Feral & Ret.
Most tier lists before wrath had MM as an S tier dps spec by phase 3 then dropping to A tier in ICC.
Shadow priest goes to A tier single target in ICC, due to their 4 piece. So don't leave them out for the count yet.
why don't you link the actual tier list in the description :)?
Big WillE i love you
Fury all around best to play. Yes i am basis asf
12:56 you want a Shadow in the raid? Why? Whats this big utility your talking about? Its all covered already by other specs in the raid. The unique utility it had in ulduar was on algalon but why do you want one in your raid?
Also crazy that you talked so long about trapweaving but didnt mention that its impossible to even trap twins
This tier is 6 fights and shadow priest utility isn't needed in this tier. But as you said having shadow priest made Algalon encounter, the second hardest fight last tier much easier. This tier is pretty easy though. But that's how it is. But think of the poor restoration druids, they had no good fights save perhaps the hard mode Iron Council until now. I count their niche as healing 4-5 people taking damage constantly. They really need their mastery and suitable raid encounters.
Having a few Shadow Priests really makes Anub easier - the healers can often just chill and let the passive healing do its thing.
Hymns, 3% spell hit debuff and replenishment (yes others also cover these things i know). And for this phase, soaking valks and healing for anub p3.
none of this is surprising tbh. Both fwarr and mhunt need softcap (60%) armor pen for first damage spike, also mhunter is really unique because they can put 1 singular talent into a pet talent and increase their overall dps by 10-15%
Not a hunter player. Out of curiosity, what talent is that?
@@AleksanderPetrov 1 point in go for the throat. It is an obvious talent to have, but in 2008 i barely spoke english and didn't know untill i tried it.
Fire mage is now ahead of affliction on WCL
after raiding with blood dps dk in togc long as you keep diseases up along with stacking strength/armor pen heart strike is you best friend for decent parses
Yeah, and besides incandenza, There is no 100% parse worthy Player Playing blood is Near BiS whatsoever. He does up to 3k More dps than the Rank 2-3-4 … so you cant really measure it By the the logs stats
Well it looks like fire, afli, fury will actually be the top 3 dps in ICC. Unholy got prioritized 4p 258 and DC as it's bis for them till end of the game, so they aren't getting that much stronger. But the sets for mage and lock are ridiculous. The lock set bonuses are literary 5% and 10% constant dmg, and mage is 12% constant haste and 18% dmg for 30 sec on 3 min CD. Warrior is creeping in even now, but with 100% armp and shadowmourne should be top 3 ;)
Hey! I quit playing wotlk after naxx so my chars are around 4.2k gs i am planing to coming back but dont know whats the best way to gear myself up to trial ? what the min gs needed for it ? how can i go from 4.2 to 5k the fastest ?
There and new Beta dungeons (H++) and they drop a lot of gear that comes from raids, including tier pieces. They're supposed to be "harder" but many aren't and some are even easier!
Like the guy above said, run H++, then add on some ony/ulduar/voa wherever you can and try get into some togc even if they're normal runs your gear will boost super fast
Being hunter at this point doesn't feel too good right now tbh. Gotta trapweave on all 3 specs to keep up. But it's either inconvenient or straight up impossible on some bosses. Mm and bm are just meme specs too.
Personal preference, I'm loving it. But I know other people who switch ed from playing Hunter for that reason. I seem to be in a minority that enjoys trapping, even if a failed trap is very frustrating (luckily, doesn't happen often now my muscle memory is developed).
Do not agree with where you placed Shadow priest, should be a bit higher
i probably would have put feral in s tier. it's not quite as high as the other 3, but it's so much higher than the rest, that it's insulting to put it with them
Feral is right with all the other not-top specs statistically lol
Give us 1 more tier, boiz ! 1 more tier !! #FeralPlayer
Phase 1 I got my ret and mm hunter to 80. I didn’t make it to phase 2. I’m a filthy casual who couldn’t stick it out.
"You could very reasonably argue MM is the PvP spec"
My guy, this is already the argument for not buffing BM. lmfao.
I main a MM hunter, i think i do fair dps, but overall logs are crap. Idk why
For as much respect as I have for u on your other videos, it was a blast to watch this series where u say your opinion on what is gonna be good/bad next tier.
It was so funny to see u amazed by the fact thst a class is good or bad when ppl thst played on private servers already knew how tiers would go. But u said that it will not be how it was on private servers, but it was exact how it was o private servers and I was always watching ur videos and hearing u saying "this is incredibile, this class is good" and I was like "yeah, I could've tell u that before they even launched the servers".
Got upset sometimes when u shit on some classes without knowing they potential or how goot they actually were.
Yes, naturally you knew druids and rets will be buffed, druids are gonna be implemented in a semi-buggy way and also could take into account what was blizzlike or buggy on private servers.
@@shibbe1 so u took 2 specific thing wich are not in the base tier lists and gave them as examples. Take a look st the tier 1 videos, the before and after naxx launch, same with ulduar where he missed most of the classes, specialy in naxx video when ppl told him before what would be good and not and he dissmised what ppl told him.
love your vids man
fury behind ret? even if were completely ignoring rets utility of mana regen, improved might, haste, replenish and aura, checking the last dps rankings (like you show in this video) ret is above fury in every category... overall damage, 95 percentile and all of it so uhhh yeaaa ret is STILL ahead of warriors :)
Honestly think survival is being slept on
I find it funny that Blood DPS is doing something and it’s performing better than actual dps specs.
If i'm not mistaken, in fully fully fully ICC BIS and 100% Armor Pen, they're in the top 3 if i remember correctly
@@evoknzI wouldn’t say top 3. Warrior, Mage, Rogue, Warlock are usually the best
blood dps in full icc bis is the best dk dps spec lol, every dk spec was meant to be able to dps and tank, of course that didnt work out but hey at least blood dps is a thing
BM getting a buff would make me dust off the hunter
They should have removed the dmg reduction on titan's grip for every phase before ICC, like original Wrath. For some reason they did good buffs to Ret and Feral but really screwed fury warriors for the first half of the expansion.
The Damage reduce was always there in Orginal Wrath…
It was there in TBC prepatch if im not mistaken.
@@derekjanisch584 I just double checked and it was introduced in the 3.1 Ulduar patch... still its clear the 10% damage buff was unneeded for the first 3 raids of the xpack given how, you know, fury sucks and is just started to be okay 3 raids in now.
@@jgalla5549 All fair points. I main a Fury War so im for it... just need to get that ARP and hold out for Shadowmourne I guess.
@@derekjanisch584 The eternal joke of needing to beat the game before you can start doing good damage is so tragic and funny. I hope you enjoy it because in Cata Classic Arms turns into gigachad spec and Fury becomes somewhat of a meme.
WillE, I love your videos but..."having raided ToGC a bunch"!? You mean, all three weeks since it's release? How are you making an accurate raid tier list with: 1. A miniscule sample size; 2. Classes having MAYBE earned 3-4 new pieces of gear at this point? Like, how can this be accurate at all?
Multiple lockouts, multiple chars, plus PTR. Everyone already has 4 set tier plus some random item or two, let alone the people who were lucky enough to get priod loot.
have you ever heard of warcraft logs?
@@mindblown42069 I envy people who could switch to the non-heroic tier gear. I'm stuck with my Ulduar gear until Regalia come my way, and its a long list.
Where my arms warriors at
Hunters are so shit in this xpac lmao, we're struggling so hard. When our best spec is only middle of the pack, oof...
Hunters are lower tier because of valks, otherwise sv hunter is top A tier in dps, mm wont be relevant until late p4 and even then its not a guarantee since hunter is mainly a theorycrafted spec atm due to lack of competent hunter main youtubers. Even in full p4 BIS MM is only marginally higher in dps lol. Most people still think of 2007 hunter rather than modern hunter meta
Wooooo Frost Mage go.....
enh sham B tier? i get alot of your rankings are based from warcraftlogs but enh shams PUMP this phase. i think its not higher because of how much min/maxing you have to do compared to other classes like assas rogue or UH dk who can just turn their brains off and press 3 buttons to really pump out some serious dps.
it doesnt, it pumps less than the classes he put in front of them
Is it fun to play game just for sterile stats and numbers?
YOU CAN can you make a tank guide
Gladiator Warrior??
Fury finally feels good. Nice with dual spec in wrath being prot/arms the first half of the expansion, and then fury later.
Hi Will!
For sure you'll need a shadowmourn to compete with fire or afli as a DK, but you get to use the most busted weapon in the game. A UH Dk with it will be so unreasonably strong it's not even funny, all of the fights in ICC are made in a way that UH DK thrive. On the other hand, the earliest possible you can get a Shafowmourn would be week 3 with all the questing prep done before even going into your first full HC clear. By that point you've beaten the game so who cares :P
Assuming many guilds can clear heroic Lich King early on. Some definitely will. But I have a feeling it'll require gearing up for many guilds.
@@andromidius top 1% of guilds will be drowning in shadowmourns, but for the rest of us plebians it's will take a while.
UHDKs are not getting fucking Shadowmourne LMAO not for a long time
@@bachstrad1994 Warrior brain, simple as
ToW does NOT stack with demo pack.
Has munching been fixed for warriors yet? Or just mages
it said "ignite and deep wounds" so would assume both
yes
In Phase 4 with the abundance of ARP on items physical DPS classes start to skyrocket. Imo TOP DPS specs will be TTW Fire mage, Fury Warrior, Combat Rogue, Aff Lock execute phase is literally nuts.
Gladiator warrior?
My ret is embarrasing the raid.
Ret paladin were cringe day 1
@@CaughtColdBoxing were!
No it’s, your raid just sucks.
disagree on Hunter. good hunters will be mid to bottom A tier imo
Elemental was sick back in the day too people just kinda sucked at it, mine was in the top of our dps on mosy fights (toc and icc)
How did they suck on elemental? It just didn't scale because nobody used fire ele, and fire ele didn't reset every pull. If you didn't have fire ele reset, elemental would be bottom of the charts. This can be seen in sim where fire ele alone provides 1000-2000 dps
I wonder these things but in pvp
This man is still underrepresenting blood dps. I get it’s not great but saying it’s only D tier is just wrong.
I really wish Wrath was actually as fun as it was in 2009.
This. After playing classic hardcore, wrath has just become a boring log in, raid, and log out expansion. The leveling is just as dull as well
@@ericpadilla2454 It really surprised me how boring Wrath leveling was having not done it in over a decade. The zones are great but the quest design is mind numbing and tedious. The only thing good about Wrath is its class design. Even Ulduar was boring, Naxx was boring, ToGC is 30 minutes and a simple boss rush. The expansion is surprisingly awful.
Affliction is by far the most complete spec in wotlk. Even in patch 3.3.5 where warriors mages and rogues take over the single target, a good affliction warlock will still be a monster dps in all possible raid situations, not only single target.
MM is as much of a meme as BM currently. Please let’s buff one of them atleast
isnt this info already out there like 10 years ago