Are early game fliers overrated in Fire Emblem?
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- čas přidán 19. 07. 2024
- Are early game fliers overrated by the community in Fire Emblem? How good they are really in terms of combat and utiity? In this video we try to explore a few fliers and how their contributions affect their games and what I think about their value in gameplay.
I also changed to a different style for this video just for the editing to be a little less time consuming. Please let me know if you'd prefer the old type, or if this new type doesn't really change/impact much. If the net gain is similar and there's not negatives, I might switch to this.
Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - Florina
02:42 - Shanna
05:59 - Caeda
07:13 - Sumia
09:55 - Chloe
11:56 - Conclusion
12:57 - Outro
What about you? Do you think they might be overrated in terms of combat or utility? Or are they absolutely essential through your playthroughs? Let me know in the comments down below, please like and subscribe and thank you for watching! - Hry
Really liked the webcam, it adds a lot of emotion (but I do worry about your eyebags, hope you can sleep better xd)
This is by far the funniest comment yet ahahhahahahha!!! The dad exhaustion coming through strong!
That's a myth, people who have eyebags have them genetically or due to aging.
Listen to Hanakko, get some Zs my guy 😂
Great video. It always got to me in tier lists when their justification is “flying good” without actually addressing the practicality. They are undoubtedly some of the most useful units in their games, but a lot of the times, the “why” gets lost
I find that a lot of veteran players hyping up fliers often gives them a bad rap since newer/more casual players don't always see the value in playing fast. Telling someone that "Yeah I was able to beat this chapter of Fire Emblem 6 quickly because Shanna carried Roy over the mountains" isn't a good argument. When debating unit viability, it is important to understand what you are arguing for. In a LTC 0% growths run, Shanna is an insanely good unit because of her rescue-utility, but to a casual player that plays slowly on normal mode, she's just a bad combat unit. I think a lot of "elitist" Fire Emblem players forget that turn count isn't something the average FE player cares about, rather they should focus on explaining how rescuing and dropping are great tools to improve your plays, but sadly a lot of elitists still think that playing quick and reducing your turn count is good in itself.
There's a big difference in how different players play the game. Some just play casually, others like to ironman, while a select few prefers to play quick and impose challenges like 0% growths. Whether fliers are good or not depends entirely on what style of Fire Emblem you are playing. This is why I inherently dislike tier lists unless you specify WHAT you are making it for. Making a general tier list is in my opinion misleading. You should instead make things like "Ironman tier list" and "LTC tier list" because then you can actually discuss these units within their proper perimeters.
So in the case of Shanna, in a 0% growths run where you spend 5 months planning out how to beat a chapter optimally, she’s one of Binding Blade’s best units. In a Hard Mode ironman however, I find her incredibly overrated, even more so in an draft race. She’s so weak that just a single mistake sees her die, just look at how she fared for Donlot when we did our Fe6 HM draft, he was unable to keep her alive, and just ended up ditching her, and Donlot is not a bad player.
So when someone tells me “Shanna is overrated/underrated” my response is “In what scenario?”. You have to be more specific when discussing the viability of Fire Emblem units, otherwise you end up with two people just talking over each other because they’re not playing the same way.
This is 100% true. Context for any type of unit discussion is the most important parameter. Take even units like Geitz for example. In practice, super good bases and weapon ranks on HHM, but in an LTC scenario, you’re never going to even see him. How does one then argue their viability? It really depends on what the player is trying to accomplish at the end of the day, like you said.
Shanna is great for flier utiliy but I always bench her later because Melady and Zeiss are better at combat for my playstyle
I really enjoyed this video. You did a great job explaining the pros and cons of early game fliers in Fire Emblem. I especially liked the part where you talked about how early game fliers are often overrated. Keep up the good work!
Combat wise, the early game flier is a hit or a miss depending on unit and game. The utility to me is unrivaled however. To me, the early game flier is similar in utility to the dancer later on: in that the flier can often help facilitate movement plays and extends the main combat units reach over time. Karin of Thracia comes to mind in how she can aid with map transversal and get key combatants to areas they otherwise wouldn't be able to reach. Chapters 6, 10, and the whole of b route are greatly mitigated in difficulty by using Karin.
For Galeforce Lucina I think it's actually easier to get F!Robin reclassed into Peg Knight and into Dark Flier to pass on Galeforce as Lucina's mom than it is to do it with Sumia. Veteran combined with Robin's very good growths make it easier to feed her kills and hit Galeforce despite needing at least 10 more levels
To add to this Lucina gets more class options from Robin(vantage, aether, armsthrift and rightful king with a strong forge can easily solo the game) and what you pointed out means Lucina will also be much stronger stat wise if you do it with Robin instead.
Oh 100%! I didn’t really look at the female Robin option because I was more focused on analyzing Sumia’s impact and her importance on that specific topic, but there’s no doubt the easiest and best way to get a strong and consistent galeforce user in Lucina is to use F!Robin!
i didnt get the hype behind Chloe as a unit until my first Lunatic playthrough where I power leveled her early with Mercurius and then made her a mage knight with a levin sword and some sword skills. Her stats scale really well in the endgame with great HP, passable bulk, and good speed.
I've never found her to be great. She is never going to be the best at anything. Yes she is fine as a Mage Knight but Pandreo is just better most of the time, plus Everytime I use her I find myself swapping her out for Mage Knight Veyle since she has quite a bit more magic with only slightly less speed.
The issue is that flying is just less important in Engage.
In GBA games, for example, Flyers has tons of utility outside of offenses (like rescue drop strats).
In Engage, the added weakness just hurts more than anything, and being "pretty good" isn't enough.
This is such a great talking point. I usually just use the early game fliers for the early game.
I think Shanna needing setup to get kills isn't a downside. Before the western isles you're not one rounding much without using Marcus silver lance. Everyone needs setup. Even Dieck and Rutger aren't consistently one rounding. If everyone needs setup anyways, it's not that hard to fit in a few kills for Shanna to keep her level up so that she's able to provide acceptable combat in a game where very few of your units are ever exceptional.
So the reason I think this is kinda dismissing Shanna’s problems is you are correct in that nobody is one rounding, but at least 4 of those units are enemy phasing: lance, Allen, rutger and hell, even Roy can enemy phase a guy or two. But more importantly, they have access to swords in a part full of axe guys that can 1 tap Shanna on enemy phase. She’s really reneged to javelin chilling/killing/soldiers/ hitting 3 hp targets. She can’t functionally enemy phase a lot of the threats there, or at all, and struggles to even hit the enemies due to weapon triangle disadvantage. It’s kinda scary how many 60,70s she has against the axe guys and if the solution is “don’t hit the axe guys”, then we’re ignoring the issue at hand which is her disadvantage against the one of the most common enemy type during that portion of the game.
@@fireembros1165 If you play hard mode Alen and Lance are fragile on enemy phase in the early game as well. Dieck and Rutger are BARELY holding it out but if they get hit 3 times (not unreasonable) they die too. Before western isles you are avoiding enemy phase combat as much as possible, and the maps where it's unavoidable are rightly considered excessively difficult (maybe even the most difficult in the entire game) and often result in the deaths of Alen, Lance, Dieck, and Rutger in iron man playthroughs (too be fair, shanna too).
Shanna can take one axe hit. That's about as much as you're gonna let Alen or Lance take. She is not standout bad, you just have to be slightly more careful with her because of bows than you do the cavs.
@@Wakefieldneo this is false. When people make this claim they completely ignore the fact that terrain exists and is plentiful abundant EVERYWHERE within the first 7 chapters of the game. Forests are pretty much designed to make it so the cavs and rutger can’t get hit and don’t even get me started on forts. It also makes it so they survive more than 2 rounds of combat with enemy fighters. This happens as early as the first chapter for Allen and Lance in which if they are on the forest they can now take 2 enemies instead of one. Dieck in his join chapter can tank almost the entirety of the right side just by moving to the fort. And I don’t really get “avoiding” enemy phase until western isles at all. If anything I’m enemy phasing the majority of enemies with those 4 I mentioned and cleaning up on player phase with my other units. In either case, Shanna cannot benefit from terrain, and if the fighters roll up on strength, she gets 1 shot. Unlike her, the people that can (and should) use terrain can indeed do multiple rounds of combat.
@@fireembros1165 Yeah, those strategies work on normal mode. You try that on hard mode and watch how fast it collapses. Dieck can live on that fort with a little luck, but only if the person occupying the other fort is Marcus. Anyone else will crumble trying to hold the right forts on chapter 2, and the left only works because you only have to do it for a couple enemies on one turn.
explicitly going onto the forests to enemy phase in chapter 1 is also doing it slowly. what you do is have marcus hold the front line and everyone else cleans up, and you kill the enemies faster than you can lure them to a forest and still get the important kill exp on alen, lance, and roy.
chapter 3 is horribly lacking in terrain, 7's setup so that if you try to hold on the forests you need an entire damn line of tanks or they'll just kill the weakest units and chapter 8 once again is lacking in terrain.
@@Wakefieldneo You can check my stream right now for my FE6 HM ironman and see me do it. And on chapter 2 Dieck easily holds the fort on the right hand side on HM. I also do use Marcus a lot, but there' absolutely no downside from using the others to tank and set up kills to snowball them a little and make those chapters easier. The issue i find is people OVERLY RELY on Marcus. And you should, but you shouldn't just use him. Hence why they run into this issue of not being able to tank anything and dying to everything in the later chapters because they literally didn't get a single level up on the units that can.
7 is the one chapter where i'll agree they can't really do much and you have to rely on marcus more.. but.. still.. if Alan, Lance and rutger can't.. Shanna sure as hell ain't doing it. And if these guys are suffering so much, then it only makes your Shanna argument weaker, because she is DEFINITELY doing worse then they are against the majority of enemies.
Im actually really glad someone brought this topic up. Ive never been a big fan of Florina or Vanessa in the games where they should shine thanks to rescue assistance, but they just never seem to do well combat wise, especially in games with such low unit slots.
I think there’s a lot of overhyping of Vanessa in particular, but I can see her being considered better due to her game being easier. But I still think it’s a stretch to say her combat is fantastic or stellar. It’s ok, but it’s not really why I’m deploying her for if we’re being honest.
A lot of the flier good mentality harkens back to LTC being the measure for unit rating days. Now while they are still good I feel like a lot of people simply parrot that idea for ALL of them without fully understanding why some of them are very good, so its nice to see this sort of format with actual explanations to back it up. Very similar to the concept a lot of people have of ALL armour knights are bad, when its actually only a handful of them.
ltc's are a bad way to measure how good a unit is i agree.
hardmode speedruns are the only way to tell how good a unit is.
But horse girls tho...
For me the biggest factor is how much favouritism you give an early peg. If you're focusing on other training projects then your flyer will never really get good, but if you have plenty of xp that you're happy to shuttle into the flier (like lyn mode florina or fe8 vanessa), then they can scale quickly and stay ahead of the difficulty curve for combat
Very fun video, and I don't have too much to touch up on, making sure to stick in my area of better knowledge, I'll give my own thoughts on Caeda and Sumia, and maybe Chloe to some degree.
I will say I feel Caeda is still the strongest flier of the units and games mentioned, and it really goes to show how insane the wing spear is as a weapon, especially when compared to it's only effective competition in the rapier, which tends to lose might considering the classes weak to it are generally given lances (there are sword cavs and bows on generals, but going well against half the cases is another point for the early flier in comparison). The only real case against Caeda is how frail she is, at least that is the case up until you promote her into Dracoknight, at which point her only flaw is the terrible speed cap of the class. She may not answer to completely everything and by that it's really only Medeus she can't answer, which is hard to say about any of the other fliers on the list, though Chloe does make a pretty strong second contender
Sumia had her most valid points touched on, but Galeforce Lucina isn't the trait to lock on to. Considering Chrobin works a lot better assuming we're referring to Luna/+ and the average Robin (aka female +spd -skl), they'll be the ones setting up Morgan + Lucina, but this isn't to say Sumia is a bad candidate. This just means that Sumia isn't in as much of a rush as is proposed if she instead pairs off with one of her other bachelors, and is used to focus solely on getting Galeforce Cynthia. I will add on that flier utility is not as cared about in the grand scheme of things as the rescue staff removes most of what's needed for flier utility, granting major mobility to your most offensive units who can get a +5/6 movement from even the weaker options, so with the mobility being contested the real value of Awakening fliers is their combat, which the base fliers both struggle with in their own ways (Sumia needs a really good backpack, and Cordelia is surprisingly slow for the class she's in). This is also ignoring the fact that it's easy to focus on funneling the dynamic duo and juggernaut the game, which is another point against any unit not named Robin, Chrom, Lucina, or Morgan.
Chloe is definitely the most buildable unit in this list, but that is very much a trait with Engage, though obviously she is extremely strong, though the reality is she sort of runs into a bit of a fight with the other two absurdly strong fliers you get later on in the form of Ivy and Hortensia, and for Engage's notoriously low deployment slots is a bit of a problem that was definitely missed. So as a flier, I think Chloe is a bit overated specifically in the sense, of an early game flier but she is a strong unit that can especially flourish in other classes (Such as Martial Master Chloe), which makes her as a unit very good.
Very much worth the like, and can't wait to see what discussion comes next up for the channel
Great video but the Vaike section was awful, comparing one of the best units in awakening to donnel and acting like Vaike needs to be babied to be good, when it's the opposite.
He might've thought Vaike is a bad unit, just because he doesn't come with a Iron Axe, without knowing Miriel is supposed to give it to him haha. Jokes aside, Vaike is great either as a hero or warrior. Sadly the berserker class in awakening is deprived from it's crit bonus, so changing and promoting him to a berserker might have put Vaike into a bad light, even though he is amazing just in his basic, normal class.
>best units in awakening
Lol
The new webcam transitions are good imo,I like to put faces into voices personally.
With awakening I feel it's less that flier utility isn't that good(which personally I think it isn't) it's moreso that the game liters about a surprising amount of bow units in assassins and snipers. Awakening is a game where you want a unit to be able to take on a lot of enemies and fliers struggle to do this becaue of that and keep in mind enemies in this game get FORGED weapons. Some snipers can even have longbows so they can't even like counter and get HP back from sol and you have to instead commit to killing that longbow sniper with them or another unit and limit the amount of enemies you can expose them too or just move them out of range likely away from enemies.
I'm talking about the class itself not skills for the record altough if galeforce didn't exist this would probably be one of the worst games to be a flier in(and I still do think it is for the aforementioned reasons) although the flying classes skills are kinda mediocre. The only good ones are like the rallies but like things like Relief and like Swordbreaker aren't really good in the context of this game. And like staffs on peg knights are really bad because all the peg knights have horrid mag(Cordelia, Sumia) so the only one really good at it is Lissa and I mean it's nice but nothing crazy. Lissa is likely going to be you're primary staff unit with the highest rank so rally speed on her is kinda redundant anyway so the only way you can make it work besides her is like child units which like... are you really gonna invest in a high move peg knight with staffs when you can just give lissa a mov+ 1 pairup or Maribelle one if you really need it. And even the flier utility like only two maps come to mind, that lava map in the valm arc and the desert map early on I can't think of much others.
Anyway at least that's my thoughts on it I always felt she is overrated a bit because of the "early flier? must be good" consensus the community has these days. P.S orry this is so unorganized and long lol good video btw would love a version for early healers
You’re right 100% on the bow thing. It is true, they spam a TON of bows in that game now that you mention it, which further dampers that flier combat issue.
Also, my “priests are kinda bad” is actually kind of a look at the early game healers and them being overrated, but I focused more on the infantry for that one!
I dont recall alot of snipers, but assassins and warriors do surprise me sometimes when I forgot they actually have bows. Also you have to mention Rexcaliburs, you have to check every potential tome user to see which amongst them carry forged Rexcaliburs.
Also I dont know for sure, but are there Longbow Snipers with Counter in the game? If not, the game developer is not psychopathic enough (doge).
I also forgot like there's forged wind tomes and beast killers so yeah being a flier is way worse than I thought when typing this comment
Early fliers are always good because they're cute
(very cool video btw)
So, a funny story of how I got into Fire Emblem: my first game was awakening and I was having a good time. I eventually went to paralogue 1 and I lost Sumia to an archer. I proceeded to ragequit on the spot and didn’t pick up another FE game for several years. Sumia almost made me ditch FE for good. In fact, it’s been like 8 years and I still havent played awakening since that day. And yet, I’m still an FE fan.
Awakening can be very very infuriating at times! But glad you stuck it out with the series!!!
Wrong correction: 1:43 Florina still have 3 chapter in between the time before you get another flier even on hector mode
Based webcam user, I agree with most of your takes, for me personally 90% of early game fliers are pretty lame.
So what you're saying is that Chloe and FE 11 Caeda are great fliers not by the type of class that they're in, but what the game gives them in comparison to the others in other games. Caeda. Wing spear. You get like 5 of them. The chapters are littered with horse and armors. Yes, great flier.
Chloe. Saying she has great mixed bulk on a 5 def flier makes me think this is more of an Engage ring generalization or of her way overbloated hp pool than fliers from other games. But in these games, units are more about combat capabilities than utility. So its natural enough for a combat-focused game to give a unit 9 more hp than the classic GBA pegasus with 17/18 hp to be better at combat. And that's not even considering engage ring stats. Oh, and weapon triangle not being a thing in Engage.
While I won't deny that these are great units, comparing early fliers to these two with what they have access to is like comparing Amelia to Seth with a silver lance (which is what he comes with anyway). So at that point, other than them being able to traverse over water, you might as well be comparing two different units just because IS decided on giving them a spear or the ability to not get oneshot by a iron bow.
I am one of the people that would say Chloe is not one of the best units in the game. Early on she does struggle to one round since ahe either cant kill with lighter weapons or gets alowed too much by hevier ones. She starts doing ok if promoted immediately but i feel there are better users of the early master seal. For the Hortensia map example I would typically already have Alear or Louis promoted into Wyvern/Griffin respectively so they can fill that role as well. Yes she is good with resources but the problem is that she requires resources that other units don't. I personally play by giving no stat boosters/SP books and without them ahe can't get power skills or anything to boost her damage ao she just falls behind most other units who function without these boosts
One flier that definitely gets screwed is vanessa, since you face a lot of axe fighters early. Ends up easily replaced by tana or cormag
I don't think anyone is making out Shanna to be this God of warfare. You use her for three reasons: fetch stuff, move dudes and not go to goddamn Sacae I think that places her way above most of that weird cast and if she crits something with killer lance, then hey, she contributed even more. Let's go
I agree with you 100% on her uses, but in this comment section alone you’ll see a bunch of people trying to say her combat isn’t even that bad against the early game enemy types and try to pass her as on the same level as Alan, Lance, Dieck and even Rutger somehow. Going as far as to claim even their enemy phase combat is roughly the same… which I think is just absurd.
@@fireembros1165 I've read a bunch of comments and the best I've seen was that fliers are great project units. I think that we're on the same page and you're talking about a weird (potentially vocal, but I didn't catch it, maybe it's in replies??) minority not a lot of people would agree with in the first place
@@bvd_vlvd as humans we do tend to focus on the outliers more and there’s one specific reply chain that I’m recalling in which some outlandish claims (IMO) were made so perhaps that was it! Apologies, maybe the general gist of it is people are reasonable and don’t overrate her combat as much.
@@fireembros1165 hey, no biggie, I enjoyed the video nonetheless
Florina i think is absolute dogshit personally.
Shanna is both underrated and overrated, giving her kills is not *that* hard. And she does have a lot of speed and luck. But her damage output leaves a lot to be desired.
One thing not that often mentioned is the fact she has some pretty quick supports with dieck and lot. If trained she can become a dodgetank, which makes pretty much any unit good.
because of supports you can arena abuse. making her better.
Rescue dropping over normally unpassable Terrain is just really nice. No matter that they can't hold bigger weapons without a massive speed drop or are one shot by a lot of early enemies.
I gotta disagree with one notion about Florina she is kinda hard to train in Lyn mode most of the enemies are brigands though more soldiers and mercs appear later I find her difficult to take care of when I first played fe7 florina was my first loss because the game encourages to save the village with her putting in danger of a brigand that just destroyed her in two hits. She just takes too much babying for a unit so mid at fighting of course I won’t deny her rescue utility being able to rescue units like Oswin and Hawkeye is really useful but I find no reason to use when in every playthrough Fiora turns out better
Shanna's low force and her high speed mean that she will hit the enemies a lot before killing them so she will get many weapon experience and will be able to use a silver lance in early game
She has D rank in lances and most enemies use axes lol
Also, she has 8 AS with an iron lance at base she's not doubling anything except ch3+5 soliders, she needs tons of babying
RE FE6&7: the fliers are better than you think they are because these game really lack good early game project units. Pretty rare for any of the early cast to stick around so might as well train the flier since they provide cheese utility if nothing else.
Florina: She justifies any resources from Lyn mode, without that mode it's hard to justify a deployment for her outside of her flier utility. Heath is one of the worst midgame Wyvern Riders in the series and STILL has enough time and resources with his bases to get the ball rolling, so you can just wait for him for a combat flier.
Shanna: Yeah her combat is bad, but she's the only member of Dieck squad who never struggles to double and she has flier utility. I don't think it's THAT hard to train her, it just depends on the map as some have too many axe units and some print soldiers to feed off of. If she had more competition for that exp than I'd say she'd struggle to justify it, but until Rutger comes her competition is the Christmas Cavs (goated), Lugh, and arguably Dieck himself, but he has problems long-term, mainly speed. So why not try for more?
Caeda: One round more than half the units in the game at base. Only downside is Elysian Whip dlc is the way to get the most out of her growths with those caps, but nothing wrong with Wyvern and Paladin.
Sumia: I'm doing my first Awakening Lunatic run (NOT Lunatic+ or Ironman, so some cheese is allowed here), and before pairing her with Chrom she was immediately CRUCIAL to get Robin doubling units. Basically, before reclassing the only units who boost Speed with their pair up bonuses are Robin (usually pair up leader because of how exp works for them), Chrom, Sully and Stahl (who each give 1 speed at base... wow), and I don't think people appreciate how powerful effectively cheating the speed calculations in this game are. Frederick cannot one tap anything but sword units at base, and he doesn't double all that much without a pair up on Lunatic. He's your work horse for the first 10 chapters and arguably the whole run if you just give him resources (Donnel and Vaike need those Second Seals to go through 3 different classes to be pwnage incarnate trust), so he needs a Chrom to get work done, and in comes Sumia to give someone else that power. This niche starts to fall off after you get Cordelia, Lon'qu and Panne, but at worst for her she's one of 4 early units keeping your army from being ripped apart and at best now she can start getting kills on her own (no one really mentions this, but Cordelia is a straight upgrade... when she doubles, but she has a lot of troubles actually doing that, especially since male pair up partners that give speed are literally just Robin and Lon'qu for a while.
Chloe: A lot of units struggle to double in the early game. She does not, and she does not have garbage stats. Easily justifies one of the first master seals to get a Wyvern for tasty strength growth and bonus build. Even if she gets strength screwed forging and engraving can work around that, at least for a while.
Im actually glad there’s a lot of discussion happening on the Sumia aspect of awakening. I 100% agree that the early spd pair up is underrated. Plus the fact she builds supports pretty quick with the males in general allows for some good carry strats even if her combat is the best.
And yeah florina is a rough sell without Lyn mode for sure
@@fireembros1165 5 speed to double is actually a brutal threshold to clear, and while tonics exist the enemies have an innate base stat advantage. Also Speed Tonics don’t come up until iirc the desert maps, so unless you want to wait for 3 IRL days or manipulate your calendar to get a +4 speed boon at random on your units from the barracks you can’t go without it from one of these beautiful units.
" shanna never struggles to double" she has 8 AS with an iron lance, which is literally the same AS lance has at base
Training Shanna really isn’t that difficult. You have EIGHT chapters to do it before she absolutely needs to promote, so while it can seem daunting, the amount of time you have to do it makes it very easily attainable. Plus, even early on, she provides useful combat niches thanks to flight + speed, even if she’s a bit squishy. But then again, everyone’s kinda squishy early (and no one rounds early as well, so Shanna can routinely swoop in and perform the last bit of damage to a weakened enemy). This is amplified by the fact that a lot of the early joiners in FE6 don’t really demand a lot of exp, either to being more short term (Marcus or Dieck), being super self sufficient (Rutger), or just being shit (Wolt, Bors, axe bros). There’s plenty of exp to go around and Shanna makes the best use of it thanks to her flight.
Thea is more of a side grade to Shanna if anything. It’s only one point of con over Shanna, so she’s also weighed down a ton, and the strength difference isn’t all too large anyways, and Shanna is likely to be much faster, which is the actual most important combat stat in FE6 from my experience. Plus Thea’s weapon levels are kinda mid. A trained Shanna can not only use swords, but also use the Silver Lance throughout the Western Isles, something even Melady will be some ways off from for a little bit.
The benchmark for early game fliers is always gonna be Vanessa, Shanna, and Erinys, and by extension, Fee.
I'd still say they're overrated.
"They can do hit and run tactics!"
So can other units.
"They have great avoid!"
Most units have similar avoid while they can benefit from terrain.
"They have 1-2 range!"
So does every Mage, Lance and Axe wielder.
"They have great movement!"
So do Cavaliers.
Cadea isn't good, the Wing Spear is. If she was an Armor Knight it would still be amazing.
Good video though.
Flier utility is a meme.
Flier utility is very map dependant, since their USP is ignoring movement penalties or outright obstructions from terrain.
Cavaliers can't do hit-and-run over a chasm or ferry infantry up a sheer cliff face, no unit clears thick forests or sprawling deserts or crumbling ruins as fast as a flier, and all that is to say nothing of maps that have as much land as they do water or lava.
Overrated? Absolutely but only on a case-by-case basis.
Florina is extremely great if you count lyn mode, can get an energy ring and a seraph robe, extremely easy access to XP and weapon xp courtesy of Lyn mode having extremely extremely awful enemies
" but but!! You have to repeat Lyn mode all over again!!! "
No lol, literally play through it one time, and then when you get to the main game make a backup save, now you can always play a playthrough with Lyn mode interference as long as you keep that Lyn mode save and save the main campaign on any of the other two remaining safe files
Tl;dr, be smart
Also even if Fliers can't fight well, they also can rescue and trade weapons quickly
Yeah, it's always gonna be a valuable deploy no matter how you look at it!
I have never been a fan of Shanna regardless of her utility. Unless you play LTC her flier itility isnt that necessary. Playing at an average pace can get you all the side objectives easily. Most of these arent even that far out of the way prior to Thea joining anyway so anyone can easily get them.
Honestly my views are the early game fliers out of games I've played on harder
difficulties I'd say shanna is most definitely over rated her combat is horrible I just give her exp so I get illa then just use tate if I want falcon knight because her bases are usable in combat and still has shanna other uses
Floria I will admit I haven't play hector mode much but each time she has ended up bad honestly it goes into favoritism levels with using but next time I play I will see if I'm proven wrong.
Vennesa slightly over rated I'd call her great not amazing but really good.
caeda amazing end of story
Fe12 is interesting because you get two and well catria is great and Pala is amazing
Rev subaki is hilarious levels of bad in combat but flying pair up is good.
And finally Chloe she good one of the few early game units that are good long term.
Most FE8 tier lists put Vanessa above Tana, which I just don't understand. Tana has always been much better in terms of combat than Vanessa and in my opinion the first 8 chapters of FE8 where Vanessa is the only flyer does not need that flier utility as much as FE6. So I really think there does exist this over hype of early game flier utility.
Tana came in a chapter with enemies that won't easily get killed by her, of course it's fe8 so it's not hard to train her even without grindding but in general when they get her Vanessa is already trained
Vanessa if you decide to focus on her can easily be over level 10 by the time Tana joins so Vanessa can promote to Wyvern Knight pretty fast which fixes most of her issues as she hains good strength and con.
Tana gets some use on her join chapter in Erika but is literally in prison in Ephraim. Then the next level has literally ballista gun boats limiting her movement range.
Tana has good stats for hee level and will be better then Vanessa at equal levels but Vanessa can already be snow balling by then.
Her flight is also useful early on to recruit Ross and Garcia faster, dropping units on the second to last Erika chapter and getting houses in Joshua join map.
Yes
The thesis here seems to be "early fliers arent that good at combat, they need investment to be any good, hence theyre overrated" wich i get, but i disagree.
No, esrly fliers cant do everything on their own, theyre not broken combat units, but they can be, and thats the point. If you have to invest on a unit and have to chose between an archer, a mercenary and a pegasus, the pegasus just has _so_ many points in their favour that even if they need some babying they turn into one of the best and most autonomous units in the game.
Are they overrated? In any game where they can sneak grab a village, no they are not.
They're pretty good yeah, they just aren't the absolute best in every game, in some games they are the best however.
Palla fe3 where ?
They are overrated. Most of them are bad versions of Palla. How good they are for investment isn't an accurate estimation of their overall inate strength as a unit.
Shanna is extremely overrated
Her flying utility is only useful in ch7, 8x, 9, 11, 14, 18 Ilia and 21
That makes 6 out of 31 maps, and even then none of it is necessary enough that it warrants her being considered " great "
Her combat is awful, lack of swords and terrain advantage is awful, weapon triangle advantage and lance locked is bad, and her strength base/growth sucks, her durability is also awful
She's not even faster than half of your army at base, she has 8 AS with an iron lance which is barely faster than most of your army in the early game
And no she's not using the silver lance, not when her Base weapon rank is D and wexp gain in FE6 is super slow ( and her combat again is bad ) and when Marcus/zealot already burnt most of silver lance uses in the early game anyway
Her combat in the western isles isn't that good either, 9 str at average 10/1 is awful and iron swords are super weak her damage is just ok even with doubling and WTA, heck half of ch11+12 enemies aren't even axe users so her combat is only good for ch9+10, and afterwards her combat is still bad
Tl; Dr she's a good unit but she's not amazing or noteworthy especially since again there's very few maps where flying matters, none are necessary and her combat is bad, she's literally just a B-/C+ unit who everyone acts like she's OP lol
Maybe... but I keep using them because sexo and they're cute
Nope
no. they are some of the best units. marcia being the best.
didn't watch, no
L