The first time I figured this out was when James Stewart straight up said, “I will not race without a factory ECU,” so it was pretty obvious how big of an advantage it really is, and I can only imagine how much further the technology has advanced sense then... Thanks Jonny for pointing this out too people, keep telling the truth, not many do... respect ✊
I agree. But unfortunately 4 stroke is the present and future. And they can cheat bad. With the Ecu. But I agree with the 2 stroke . Not much you can cheat on with them except bigger engine bore kite light weight cranks ,etc. But 4 strokes are here to stay. But I agree with you . So please dont take that the wrong way , 🤘🤘👍👍
Two strokes have mapping. Maybe not as R & D’d like 4 strokes cuz all these teams are squeezing every ounce of goodness out of a motor. I can tell the difference on my 300 high and low map. I’m sure team Husky on the enduro side has made mapping changes etc. but the moto teams take this shit to the next level
I bought a 17’ 350 XC to race harescrambles with. Where I race some of the courses have tight woods sections. In stock form the 350 would flame out a lot in low speed tight sections. I bought a Vortex ECU and the difference is night and day. The bike has better cold starts and runs so much better at low rpm
Erick Thor Jeff is in race shape Johnny rips, look at the difference from the Fite race with Alessi smoking Villopoto, it would be fun content, I would bet that at a familiar track Jonhnny could rip just as fast a lap time....I think it would be fun content..
I did this study on my 450. Tested Map 2 with NO TC VS Map 2 with TC on same section of track in same conditions. TC on held higher speed and time was much quicker
Seems like the better example would have been a lap with TC on and off in the morning, and then repeat in the afternoon to see the difference in settings
People on here saying two strokes are on the way out. They're actually just making a comeback now after a long hiatus. If they would just come out with a 500cc two-stroke, no four-stroke could keep up with it.
And James Stewart was hated on so bad by so many people because he wanted a factory ECU! He knew exactly what the benefits of having a factory ECU to be competitive on that level!!
I’ve used a slipper before and it gets rid of engine breaking but that takes away some braking power so we stopped testing with one. I’ve used their torque drive but pit side by side with Hinson. I’d choose Hinson all day. Might not last as long but the feel is second to none.
Love the ECU capability these days, change my maps to suit all types of riding. So easy, the old days it was a pain in the butt for the average guy, remove carby etc etc, unless you really cared about it you didn’t bother, now days, plug in, down load the maps you’ve tested 👍, 5 minutes later , riding again, no burnt fingers either 😃. Once I said I’d never own an injected dirt bike, thought they would be unreliable, but things change , and the manufacturers have done well I think.
Wasn't this the reason back in the 80's that the AMA came up with the rule that dirt bikes had to be based off of factory bikes. This was supposed to end the proprietary "Works Bikes" that had the factory teams at an advantage. So now having a proprietary ECU program and not allowing privateers or satellite teams to use them is now having a "Works Bike" again isn't it?🤔
Factory bikes were always better than stock, I remember Marty smiths factory Honda that they wouldn’t even race because of the claim law back in the day, matter of fact someone did claim his bike and got it, because cycle world tore it apart to compare all the parts and they were all completely different, the AMA change the claim law which they should bring back or everyone go to stock some how
Johnny are you thinking of ever going back to the pro level ??? I think you can do it. You in your Prime age. And mental maturity, I think if you wanted to get there . You could be a GREAT rider. Not only a place on the track. Imho. You can do it !!! If You wanted to again . But Much better !!!!
Ummmm 😳 unless I get a big opportunity I can’t put my wife let alone my mental health and body through that again. But thx man for believing in me. #braap
I started riding in the mid 80's. Wish they had all that stuff back then. I've since changed to 4 wheels so it just don't even apply to me now though lol
Love your videos man! You should do a video on what us “jo shmo” guys can get for their bikes that make them better! Such as titanium engines mounts and etc. Yes I could name more off but your simply an experienced rider so you would know best!!
It's not about creating a level playing feild between factory & privateer riders. MX & SX are about putting on a show to sell motorcycles. You know that Johnny. 😉
If they were to allow to public to buy the ecus it would overwhelm most people trying to tune traction control etc, the time the factory teams spend tuning bikes is what makes them shine, as far as the throttle bodies go the biggest change was flipping which way the valve opens to direct more air into the fuel injector spray pattern to allow the fuel and air to mix better. Factory engines have a ton of time spent on cam timing and “ridability” how the motor makes power as well as how it transfers to the ground. How the engine is assembled mechanically important as well as ecu. I’ve riden a few stock ecu bikes put together by factory mechanics and it’s impressive what they will do without traction control just in how they set the motor up to make power so that it isn’t needed
Right.. it's about power delivery. Too much power smoke the tires and it's about getting the most power at certain intervals to the ground without loss of traction. Don't mater how much power you have if you can't transfer to rear without going squirrly then your achieving nothing. Unless driving loose is your way of racing. Hard to keep up when your trying to keep it in a line. This is the dilemma of Nascar, drag racing etc etc
First great video, highlighting what is key in this 4t era nothing new to me, but definitely interesting and maybe increase knowledge of wider audience. I am always conflicted with unlimited vs production rule, for a few reasons, I grew up in the peak of the Works era, not this factory BS era, true works bikes, long before this crap, they had carbon airbox s titanium and unobtainum that would make babies cry out in lust for those machines even today, the 84/85/86 Euro Works RC500s being the pinnacle of the tree , but there were many great great works bikes, even to look at in magazines ! To this day I still hate the introduction of the production rule in 1986 in the US, driven by Yamaha and Suzuki at the time because they didn’t want to invest money and they paid the price in sales and the growth of the sport imho, still to this day, though Yamaha unlike Suzuki realised this mistake by the mid 90s and have really been on the right path with a few year exceptions ever since. The other reasons are too fold, it hurt the development of the sport esp 2 strokes and we hear all the BS from manufacturers ever since but in reality it’s really BS and corporate crap to increase costs, again it hurt the sport and the number are nothing like the peak of the 80s, number never lie, but Stats do and can be manipulated cheated as you highlight with the Factory ECU and frankly every other part they can get away with as it’s a very long bow the Factories get when bending the rule book. The big thing is this false pretence that somehow it would make racing more level, it’s RACING and this is my delima over my 40 years+ of racing many types of bikes and other forms of sports, cheating pushing the laws are more common than not, there is never an even playing field! Can it be one designed yes Yachting, Kayaking , Canoeing, biking to some degree, although all those sports have been caught with there pants down at some stage with cheats, motors hidden in cranks or frames. Take Loretta Lynns Amateur Nationals it’s about as Amateur as Kim Kardashians butt checks and about as much cosmetic work behind the scenes, don’t get me wrong LLs was a great concept, but it’s been high jacked by factories looking for the next big thing, it’s almost closed the door to a young Johnny no body with Dad making a pipe, home porting in his garage and some air is and jetting magic! With Orange Brigade! The Blue crew! Team Green! holding training camps for the selected few weeks in advance, media talk, fitness, nutrition, prep, it’s like a mini version of Alden Bakers factory boot camp! This is amateurs, they even sign contracts! I think like most things today, Pandora’s box is open and it has allowed and actually advanced cheating it has definitely widened the gap between pro and.amateur, at least in the Works era riders could stand out, because when they did well they stood so far out a Factory almost had to pick them up, those days are gone, it’s manufactured now, it’s not natural and the natural talent won’t rise like it used to, it’s elitist and the pool is much much smaller! The Factories themselves and the promoters have done this, unfortunately the privateers fall for this BS so it’s on them too, it has held back MX esp at every level and the crowd are coming me to roost. I have said for sometime and independent riders body needs to be formed, not a union, but a organisation for the riders at every level somewhat what the AMA was probably originally intended for, many of the things run by teams should be in the hands of this organisation, media, future, investments, training diet, welfare of riders, active, injured and contracts support, still have agents etc, payments, rise money, but the riders at all levels welfare comes first and is the first and only priority of the organisation. Somehow we have to make everything so complicated today, dam I miss the days of a basic truck turning up at the track and having a beer after a race with ya hero’s maybe you’d see a works bike down the pit line too and you’d talk abut it, wow what a concept that was. I dread the day when it goes Electric, I’ll be done following it, but still be riding my 2t till one of us quits. Just my 2 cents on a production class! it’s a idea but it’s not reality not today, it will be cheated and the same outcome will occur, history repeats! That’s what competition does!🤙
Sorry but I disagree with the opening statement, especially in the UK. You don’t see F1 drivers using ecu on normal cars, same as top gear or all other car testers. They turn it off. Same as motocross, and why have more tech that’s needed. It’s just something else to go wrong. They programme the ecu via a laptop and leave it as that all weekend. No map switches to toggle between modes
@@Johnny_Hopper Litpro would be cool to see too. Even the speed chart from the GoPro could tell you where you were making or losing the time to some degree.
I have a question, when a rider retires like Stewart or any one of the studs that are racing now. What happens to their bikes? Do they get to keep them but without the tech or do they keep them as they are from their last factory race with the condition that they cannot try and reproduce the technology for personal gain? Almost like a NDA.
What is the use of turning on and off of traction control ? Why should a cruiser bike should have this option? I am about to buy Honda H’ness CB 350, not sure why they gave this option within the bike. Could you please help me understand
I have been working and rebuilding motorcycle engines for over 45 years and probably the best way to get some better power is maybe a little cleaning up of the cylinder head. The dirt bikes today are so awesome right out of the box I mean that's why you pay $10,000 and up for a new 450F! I was amazed at the power of my new YZ 450 and usable power at that. The engineers at all the manufactures do a excellent job in developing these machines. The suspensions, engines, frame, hubs, wheels, swing arms etc. are so advanced these days and the pros should ride a so called stock bike. Its funny to watch these guys convince themselves that the $10,000 they just spent on their suspensions made a huge difference on how much better their bike handles now, BULLSHIT!! you can only move oil around so many ways and that's it! They don't want to admit that they just pissed away all that money for a negligible change if any. Suspension shops are a business and do a good job at convincing riders to spend a ton of money if they want to go fast and that the engineers that built these machines are morons and put out a junk product . OK I am done now.
I have a Vortec ignition mapped by Twisted Development on my 2020 KTM 450 and that is night and day better over the stock ECU it makes the bike easier to ride and reev's out farther
Could the roll speed have been better in the afternoon, less corner traction but also less rolling resistance with lines beat down? Increase the sample size, more tracks.
Just watch the Star Yamaha bikes. I feel they have a strong grasp on the ECU tuning that the old Yamaha factory team was out to lunch on. I know they have some great riders but the bikes look to be hooked up all the time. While just a year ago a Yamaha 450 was a rare thing in the top ten.
Hey Johnny, nice job! You were at Watkins? Been a while since riding there, but couldn't figure out the track..........were you jumping "Big Al" or is it even on the pro track anymore?
The Moto GP riders work endlessly on TC settings lean angle yaw slippage and things I can only pretend to understand. It will change riding Technic and just be there always on all motorcycles, yes the factories will almost always have the edge. There will be the outliers that specialize in mapping and map settings.
KTM is putting their 6 axis IMU into their dirt-adventure bikes so I don't see why dirtbikes wouldnt get them soon enough! Major advantage if computer is sorting out traction when you are fully leaned over. Many bikes have slide control settings!
dont worry, give it a try and it may change your mind. I'v benn riding KTMs for 4 years now and TC is very transparent, it is there but you dont feel it realy. On a muddy track, last moto of the day, a bit down on energy, thats where it gives the biggest plus.
not if it's a north America bike. It might light up but it won't do anything. There are soem places that will supposedly add the Euro stuff to the ECU but I don't know of any
Are the new fuel injection bikes so new that there is no tuning companies out there looking to unlock the ECU similar to the way that stock General Motors ecu's can be tuned?
So now that a few yrs have passed and you now know that that bike's TC isn't really TC at all and simply a different map what are your thoughts? Even though some of the newer bikes claim to have TC, they really don't that I've seen so far. But, for not that much money anyone can but a Vortex or GET ecu and have, although rudimentary compared to road race bikes, "real" TC that works off rate of acceleration. With a good tuner, map switch and 10 levels of TC that can be a real game changer IMO.
To me it's like using cheats codes on a video game.. you can get thru game faster. But are you really a winner in the end ?. When the computer did all the work. I'd use it to ride myself for fun. But for racing. These should be banned
@@dalpiaz16 So did people forget how to use the throttle or what? Too much computer tech is unnecessary, suspension on the other hand is nessecary and a skilled driver can manipulated it to act a certain way. Traction control is just lazy bullshit in racing. Just look at F1, they banned it eventually.
I'm sure factory bike are a pro model compared to a factor off the shelf @ the motor cycles dealers, but Eli, Webb, Ken R. Anderson Barcia they would be fast any ways may not win as many but I think there would be more top rider winner instead of 2 or 3 top contenders,
Bonestock or not, those who are currently upfront will stay upfront. Or do you think factories hire slow untalented riders? The whole point of racing is developing and testing new technology. So that’s what they are doing. If you want to race stock and have a chance, enter a local race, preferably in a two-stroke class.
JOHNNIE Always love all your videos. Your a Professional Motorcycle rider. We look up to you , with your platform , and your inside info you ket us know about. WE LOVE THE DIRTY little secrets in the crooked sport. Of motocross and supercross. I'm NO genius. But Kenny Roxen his bike and HIM are cheating to the gills , I'm sure of it . He should NOT be able to EVER beat Tomac on any night of racing . He doesn't have the RAW SKILL that Eli has , but I can see from a MILE. Away Kenny's HONDA is cheated out as MAX as honda will and can go. I'll bet $1,000 dollars if USDA came to his front door at 3 am on 8 differant trips Un announced and tested him he would pop for PEDS . I'm almost sure of it. About 95% sure. But feld is letting him do this to make for great TV ratings .and just excitement so that Eli. Dont run off with a 4 race points lead going into 5 races to go. Ty for your insite, and BRAAAAP!!! KEEP THE AWESOME VIDEOS COMMING !!!!!🤘🤘🔥🔥💯
Yes hell yes ..!! Fair to say not only are you most likely correct or 100% correct for that matter but there's cheating on top of that that we won't know about until we are a hundred and ten years old...KEEP MAKING THE VIDEOS ...you have gift and riding talent most all your audience does NOT possess. You have to be inspiring The up-and-coming Young Riders and you probably are touching a few of them because there's so much disinformation a lollipop Wonderland watching TV and thinking everything is the same as the showroom floor THANKYOU...!! TRUMP 2020!!!
But your a good person. So everyone is allowed our own political preference. But were all people . And all great people !!!! But I agree with you 100🤘👍👍✌
I agree that they make a huge deal but honestly, if you put the top 10 dudes on a stock 450, I'm sure they would still beat the "slower" 40 guys. The level of talent doesn't get talked about enough in this sport because we have machines which really sucks because we're discrediting how talented the top elite guys are. Think about Tomac on a stock 450 vs dudes who are barley making the top 36 in qualifying. I'd guess that Tomac would be a few seconds a lap faster because the man is insane. Having that factory equipment does aid him and puts him another notch ahead. My point, these dudes have to show they have the talent and speed to get the factory rides. You act like you can't get top 15's on a near stock bike. If the right dude has the conditioning and talent, he will get top 15's. Of course, this gets him noticed and he may pick up better equipment and training regiments further aiding in progress.
Just look at freddy norén when he was a privateer. He were still fighting the top ten many times. So yeah talent and skill is what get's them there at the end of the day.
I have a 2020 Yamaha yz450f, it doesn't have a TC setting per say but it has a phone app to adjust fuel and ignition tables to create custom maps. I had noticed a few times it felt laggy like it was spinning or slipping, which wasn't possible. So, being a no prep drag racer and knowing about how Holley sets up traction control using fuel and ignition tables and a few other things I decided to take a closer look at the Yamaha and sure enough the factory maps are set up to retard timing if it thinks your spinning but the problem is, I haven't found wheel speed sensors, so it can't really know you're spinning without rpm randomly jumping up, which is why it's so inconsistent. I had to make a custom tune to get rid of it. But I still use the Yamaha tunes on our sand track because it atleast works there. Also noticed slowing down at certain parts around a track can increase lap times. Even tho pros look like they blast around every corner and through every jump, they're going fast enough and have enough control to not notice them slowing down as much. Average riders are way more noticeable. We honestly don't ride for track times, we even built a straight rhythm course because we like jumping more but it is fun to try to keep up with or beat the fastest guy
The first time I figured this out was when James Stewart straight up said, “I will not race without a factory ECU,” so it was pretty obvious how big of an advantage it really is, and I can only imagine how much further the technology has advanced sense then... Thanks Jonny for pointing this out too people, keep telling the truth, not many do... respect ✊
This is why I like the two stroke. Fewer tech decisions and if I absolutely have to...Ive got the screw driver.
I agree. But unfortunately 4 stroke is the present and future. And they can cheat bad. With the Ecu. But I agree with the 2 stroke . Not much you can cheat on with them except bigger engine bore kite light weight cranks ,etc. But 4 strokes are here to stay. But I agree with you . So please dont take that the wrong way , 🤘🤘👍👍
Two strokes have mapping. Maybe not as R & D’d like 4 strokes cuz all these teams are squeezing every ounce of goodness out of a motor. I can tell the difference on my 300 high and low map. I’m sure team Husky on the enduro side has made mapping changes etc. but the moto teams take this shit to the next level
Does anybody know the real reason "dirtbikes" went 4 stroke?
@@Dopeassbikevids way faster
@@matthies1000 not really
There was a joke 30 + years ago; How many formula one drivers does it take to change a light bulb? None the traction control does it for them.
I bought a 17’ 350 XC to race harescrambles with. Where I race some of the courses have tight woods sections. In stock form the 350 would flame out a lot in low speed tight sections. I bought a Vortex ECU and the difference is night and day. The bike has better cold starts and runs so much better at low rpm
Who else wants to see a Johnny Hopper vs Jeff Walker video!!!
@jeffwalker we should dude just for kicks
Jeff Walker would shred this dude. Its day and night difference of speed.
Erick Thor Jeff is in race shape Johnny rips, look at the difference from the Fite race with Alessi smoking Villopoto, it would be fun content, I would bet that at a familiar track Jonhnny could rip just as fast a lap time....I think it would be fun content..
Erick Thor I have done a few laps with walker before he’s not all that lmao
@@ParaMoto910 lmfaooo.. Walker would fuck up johnny
So why on earth didn't you do a lap in the afternoon with the TC off??
Skills still pay the bills 🤷🏼♂️
I did this study on my 450. Tested Map 2 with NO TC VS Map 2 with TC on same section of track in same conditions. TC on held higher speed and time was much quicker
Seems like the better example would have been a lap with TC on and off in the morning, and then repeat in the afternoon to see the difference in settings
Good idea 💡
Pointless otherwise. It just proved the same rider, on the same bike, achieved the same time.
Awesome topic homie... I dont think anyone should be allowed TC unfair edge.... But what do i know..... Great video bro.....
Braaaaaaap!!!!!
Loving the tips Johnny! Thanks for the inspiration over the past months, finally started making my own moto vlogs! Cheers mate 🤘🏼
I am a 2 stroke man, BUT just bought a rmz 450 2019 and wow! Its a weapon love it just as much as my 2 strokers now, its won me over
People on here saying two strokes are on the way out. They're actually just making a comeback now after a long hiatus. If they would just come out with a 500cc two-stroke, no four-stroke could keep up with it.
And James Stewart was hated on so bad by so many people because he wanted a factory ECU! He knew exactly what the benefits of having a factory ECU to be competitive on that level!!
Johnny nails it again looking for an even playing field love to have all that fancy but I got what I ✌️😷
This is actually just more proof that almost everyone is faster on a less powerful bike, but lap times are the only way they will believe it.
They should make a stock class
Why would a company like Honda pour loads of money into that though?
@@DaNeale64 it would be primarily privateers
@@DaNeale64 To win it 🤷♂️
Some big jumps out there. 😬😳
THANK YOU IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOREVER THATS THE FACTORY RIDERS ADVANTAGE OVER THE NORMAL RACER !!
Actually noticeable, bike is so much more planted imo. I almost want to get an Austrian bike it looks that good. Wow
Nice riding, have you messed with a Rekluse auto clutch yet definitely interested on what you think about it.
Didn't think pros used the auto clutch as it has strange effect on your own clutch slipping besides it's more fun having your own control
I wouldn't get one, my buddy had one on his bike and after trying it ill never ride a bike that has rekluse in it
I’ve used a slipper before and it gets rid of engine breaking but that takes away some braking power so we stopped testing with one. I’ve used their torque drive but pit side by side with Hinson. I’d choose Hinson all day. Might not last as long but the feel is second to none.
No all the supercross riders run the recluse so they don't stall out if the fall over or bite the dust.
@@codenamenoob4973 Yes they do use it use still can use your clutch but they use them so they don't stall out if they tip over or eat shit.
Love the ECU capability these days, change my maps to suit all types of riding. So easy, the old days it was a pain in the butt for the average guy, remove carby etc etc, unless you really cared about it you didn’t bother, now days, plug in, down load the maps you’ve tested 👍, 5 minutes later , riding again, no burnt fingers either 😃. Once I said I’d never own an injected dirt bike, thought they would be unreliable, but things change , and the manufacturers have done well I think.
Lol I ride an 03 cr 125 so I have literally no tech. But I like the more raw feel
The TM Racing 4-strokes came stock with Traction Control ! You have No idea ,how well it works. until you un-plug it !
I just put money down on the new carbed 300 enduro and it is sick! Can't wait to get it home soon!
Now that I have a 2t I would love getting the 300 dual-piped 4t! These bikes are racing animals! Every piece of the bike is factory racing art...
Hey Johnny, try fitting a standard exhaust then pair it against the FMF
Thanks for the surpluss of content
Watkins has gotten so much better over the years!!
Wasn't this the reason back in the 80's that the AMA came up with the rule that dirt bikes had to be based off of factory bikes. This was supposed to end the proprietary "Works Bikes" that had the factory teams at an advantage. So now having a proprietary ECU program and not allowing privateers or satellite teams to use them is now having a "Works Bike" again isn't it?🤔
Member when they found traction control on Stews bike? OH I MEMBER.
Factory bikes were always better than stock, I remember Marty smiths factory Honda that they wouldn’t even race because of the claim law back in the day, matter of fact someone did claim his bike and got it, because cycle world tore it apart to compare all the parts and they were all completely different, the AMA change the claim law which they should bring back or everyone go to stock some how
They all have it not just the factory editions. I had it on my 2017 KTM normal 250SXF. Worked awesome.
Johnny are you thinking of ever going back to the pro level ??? I think you can do it. You in your Prime age. And mental maturity, I think if you wanted to get there . You could be a GREAT rider. Not only a place on the track. Imho. You can do it !!! If You wanted to again . But Much better !!!!
Ummmm 😳 unless I get a big opportunity I can’t put my wife let alone my mental health and body through that again. But thx man for believing in me. #braap
Funny Bubba had it years ago when racing for Yamaha and they mentioned it. They had it before anyone else and was talking how it effects wheels spin.
This was such an eye opener. Great video!
I started riding in the mid 80's. Wish they had all that stuff back then. I've since changed to 4 wheels so it just don't even apply to me now though lol
Agreed completely they should only be able to use whatever everyone else can get
I love the TC and mode settings for when im gas ed out woods racing in all conditions
Love your videos man! You should do a video on what us “jo shmo” guys can get for their bikes that make them better! Such as titanium engines mounts and etc. Yes I could name more off but your simply an experienced rider so you would know best!!
It's not about creating a level playing feild between factory & privateer riders. MX & SX are about putting on a show to sell motorcycles. You know that Johnny. 😉
Privateers can also buy a Athena GET Pro ECU? The advantage comes from setup, testing and mapping.
If they were to allow to public to buy the ecus it would overwhelm most people trying to tune traction control etc, the time the factory teams spend tuning bikes is what makes them shine, as far as the throttle bodies go the biggest change was flipping which way the valve opens to direct more air into the fuel injector spray pattern to allow the fuel and air to mix better. Factory engines have a ton of time spent on cam timing and “ridability” how the motor makes power as well as how it transfers to the ground. How the engine is assembled mechanically important as well as ecu. I’ve riden a few stock ecu bikes put together by factory mechanics and it’s impressive what they will do without traction control just in how they set the motor up to make power so that it isn’t needed
Right.. it's about power delivery. Too much power smoke the tires and it's about getting the most power at certain intervals to the ground without loss of traction. Don't mater how much power you have if you can't transfer to rear without going squirrly then your achieving nothing.
Unless driving loose is your way of racing. Hard to keep up when your trying to keep it in a line. This is the dilemma of Nascar, drag racing etc etc
Sometimes efficiency and tad slower is better because your not focused on instability.
First great video, highlighting what is key in this 4t era nothing new to me, but definitely interesting and maybe increase knowledge of wider audience.
I am always conflicted with unlimited vs production rule, for a few reasons, I grew up in the peak of the Works era, not this factory BS era, true works bikes, long before this crap, they had carbon airbox s titanium and unobtainum that would make babies cry out in lust for those machines even today, the 84/85/86 Euro Works RC500s being the pinnacle of the tree , but there were many great great works bikes, even to look at in magazines !
To this day I still hate the introduction of the production rule in 1986 in the US, driven by Yamaha and Suzuki at the time because they didn’t want to invest money and they paid the price in sales and the growth of the sport imho, still to this day, though Yamaha unlike Suzuki realised this mistake by the mid 90s and have really been on the right path with a few year exceptions ever since.
The other reasons are too fold, it hurt the development of the sport esp 2 strokes and we hear all the BS from manufacturers ever since but in reality it’s really BS and corporate crap to increase costs, again it hurt the sport and the number are nothing like the peak of the 80s, number never lie, but Stats do and can be manipulated cheated as you highlight with the Factory ECU and frankly every other part they can get away with as it’s a very long bow the Factories get when bending the rule book.
The big thing is this false pretence that somehow it would make racing more level, it’s RACING and this is my delima over my 40 years+ of racing many types of bikes and other forms of sports, cheating pushing the laws are more common than not, there is never an even playing field!
Can it be one designed yes Yachting, Kayaking , Canoeing, biking to some degree, although all those sports have been caught with there pants down at some stage with cheats, motors hidden in cranks or frames.
Take Loretta Lynns Amateur Nationals it’s about as Amateur as Kim Kardashians butt checks and about as much cosmetic work behind the scenes, don’t get me wrong LLs was a great concept, but it’s been high jacked by factories looking for the next big thing, it’s almost closed the door to a young Johnny no body with Dad making a pipe, home porting in his garage and some air is and jetting magic!
With Orange Brigade! The Blue crew! Team Green! holding training camps for the selected few weeks in advance, media talk, fitness, nutrition, prep, it’s like a mini version of Alden Bakers factory boot camp! This is amateurs, they even sign contracts!
I think like most things today, Pandora’s box is open and it has allowed and actually advanced cheating it has definitely widened the gap between pro and.amateur, at least in the Works era riders could stand out, because when they did well they stood so far out a Factory almost had to pick them up, those days are gone, it’s manufactured now, it’s not natural and the natural talent won’t rise like it used to, it’s elitist and the pool is much much smaller! The Factories themselves and the promoters have done this, unfortunately the privateers fall for this BS so it’s on them too, it has held back MX esp at every level and the crowd are coming me to roost.
I have said for sometime and independent riders body needs to be formed, not a union, but a organisation for the riders at every level somewhat what the AMA was probably originally intended for, many of the things run by teams should be in the hands of this organisation, media, future, investments, training diet, welfare of riders, active, injured and contracts support, still have agents etc, payments,
rise money, but the riders at all levels welfare comes first and is the first and only priority of the organisation.
Somehow we have to make everything so complicated today, dam I miss the days of a basic truck turning up at the track and having a beer after a race with ya hero’s maybe you’d see a works bike down the pit line too and you’d talk abut it, wow what a concept that was.
I dread the day when it goes Electric, I’ll be done following it, but still be riding my 2t till one of us quits. Just my 2 cents on a production class! it’s a idea but it’s not reality not today, it will be cheated and the same outcome will occur, history repeats! That’s what competition does!🤙
Sorry but I disagree with the opening statement, especially in the UK. You don’t see F1 drivers using ecu on normal cars, same as top gear or all other car testers. They turn it off. Same as motocross, and why have more tech that’s needed. It’s just something else to go wrong.
They programme the ecu via a laptop and leave it as that all weekend. No map switches to toggle between modes
Hmm the testing for the maps aren’t really scientifically done sadly but manually adjusted till the engine breaks.
Brrraaaap! Cool video
3 to 5 laps. Morning first ride, same temp, same conditions, with on, then off. Same for afternoon.
I’ll go more in depth and make the video longer next time.
@@Johnny_Hopper Litpro would be cool to see too. Even the speed chart from the GoPro could tell you where you were making or losing the time to some degree.
I have a question, when a rider retires like Stewart or any one of the studs that are racing now. What happens to their bikes? Do they get to keep them but without the tech or do they keep them as they are from their last factory race with the condition that they cannot try and reproduce the technology for personal gain? Almost like a NDA.
They usually keep them. Unless they weren’t that big of a name
Cool info..but I have a '90 yz 250. Is what it is..its fast. Cool seeing you sail that huge jump!
Could you give me some throttle body replacements for Husqvarna FC350/450?! More responsive options?
What is the use of turning on and off of traction control ? Why should a cruiser bike should have this option? I am about to buy Honda H’ness CB 350, not sure why they gave this option within the bike. Could you please help me understand
The newer Betas have TC and I love it!
sorry are you talking about an ECU or track control 2 different ones?
The factory teams should be sharing maps with everyone else
I have been working and rebuilding motorcycle engines for over 45 years and probably the best way to get some better power is maybe a little cleaning up of the cylinder head. The dirt bikes today are so awesome right out of the box I mean that's why you pay $10,000 and up for a new 450F! I was amazed at the power of my new YZ 450 and usable power at that. The engineers at all the manufactures do a excellent job in developing these machines. The suspensions, engines, frame, hubs, wheels, swing arms etc. are so advanced these days and the pros should ride a so called stock bike. Its funny to watch these guys convince themselves that the $10,000 they just spent on their suspensions made a huge difference on how much better their bike handles now, BULLSHIT!! you can only move oil around so many ways and that's it! They don't want to admit that they just pissed away all that money for a negligible change if any. Suspension shops are a business and do a good job at convincing riders to spend a ton of money if they want to go fast and that the engineers that built these machines are morons and put out a junk product . OK I am done now.
I have a Vortec ignition mapped by Twisted Development on my 2020 KTM 450 and that is night and day better over the stock ECU it makes the bike easier to ride and reev's out farther
Could the roll speed have been better in the afternoon, less corner traction but also less rolling resistance with lines beat down? Increase the sample size, more tracks.
try tc in loose sand vs no tc.
Just watch the Star Yamaha bikes. I feel they have a strong grasp on the ECU tuning that the old Yamaha factory team was out to lunch on. I know they have some great riders but the bikes look to be hooked up all the time. While just a year ago a Yamaha 450 was a rare thing in the top ten.
Hey Johnny, nice job! You were at Watkins? Been a while since riding there, but couldn't figure out the track..........were you jumping "Big Al" or is it even on the pro track anymore?
I was and it’s been three years since I have been there,people yell me it’s backwards.
Ohhhhh, ok that makes sense! I rode there for 15 years and couldn't figure out what was going on. Cool, Brrrrrrrrrrr😄
Hi Johnny. Watch all your vids great stuff. He safe
The Moto GP riders work endlessly on TC settings lean angle yaw slippage and things I can only pretend to understand. It will change riding Technic and just be there always on all motorcycles, yes the factories will almost always have the edge. There will be the outliers that specialize in mapping and map settings.
KTM is putting their 6 axis IMU into their dirt-adventure bikes so I don't see why dirtbikes wouldnt get them soon enough! Major advantage if computer is sorting out traction when you are fully leaned over. Many bikes have slide control settings!
Traction control? Wtf. I haven't been racing or riding for a long time, and this makes me sad for the whole sport of motocross.. Sigh
dont worry, give it a try and it may change your mind. I'v benn riding KTMs for 4 years now and TC is very transparent, it is there but you dont feel it realy. On a muddy track, last moto of the day, a bit down on energy, thats where it gives the biggest plus.
wheres you funny face gone? its better than a blank screen lol
Hopper, don´t stop.
How is the throttle body better?
So these switches are just plug n play? If I put one on my 501 then I’ll have access to 2 maps, TC & LC?
not if it's a north America bike. It might light up but it won't do anything. There are soem places that will supposedly add the Euro stuff to the ECU but I don't know of any
You have good pace man
Great Video 👏👌🏻👍
Interesting!
middle finger clutch? how do you not end up hitting the back of your other finger?
Are the new fuel injection bikes so new that there is no tuning companies out there looking to unlock the ECU similar to the way that stock General Motors ecu's can be tuned?
That is not true. There are guy in my area, who tune stock ecu on dirt and road bikes. Even a ktm tpi ones.
Very interesting
So now that a few yrs have passed and you now know that that bike's TC isn't really TC at all and simply a different map what are your thoughts? Even though some of the newer bikes claim to have TC, they really don't that I've seen so far. But, for not that much money anyone can but a Vortex or GET ecu and have, although rudimentary compared to road race bikes, "real" TC that works off rate of acceleration. With a good tuner, map switch and 10 levels of TC that can be a real game changer IMO.
Omg , i never knew theres dirt bike have tc !
Sorry i lived behind rock , dont bully me
Is traction control only for factory bikes
So you’re saying the factory ecu has much better traction control?
So I’m joe smoe that bought the rockstar smh imma take her too the local track and see what happens
Interesting
Can not have "Traction Control" with out wheel speed sensors.
Braaaap!!
I put a vortex on my bike with custom maps from xpr no need for traction control anymore the bike is better in every way
I use a Vortex ECU in my YZ250F and it makes a huge difference.Your saying they make a better factory ECU than a Vortex?
100x better but you can’t buy it.
didnt know jewell rides backwards now
To me it's like using cheats codes on a video game.. you can get thru game faster. But are you really a winner in the end ?. When the computer did all the work.
I'd use it to ride myself for fun. But for racing. These should be banned
so if you use a better suspension, the "computer" did all the work?
@@dalpiaz16 So did people forget how to use the throttle or what? Too much computer tech is unnecessary, suspension on the other hand is nessecary and a skilled driver can manipulated it to act a certain way.
Traction control is just lazy bullshit in racing. Just look at F1, they banned it eventually.
Where are you riding
I'm sure factory bike are a pro model compared to a factor off the shelf @ the motor cycles dealers, but Eli, Webb, Ken R. Anderson Barcia they would be fast any ways may not win as many but I think there would be more top rider winner instead of 2 or 3 top contenders,
Fkn-A Johnny Fkn-A
If all the riders had the same exact bike...who you think would be the fastest 3 riders?...
The same guys , watch video of all of them on old 2 strokes shredding a track and it gives you your answer.
John Babb Ok so even if being factory gives them a advantage then nothing would really change if everyone was on a level playing field...
@@minusx31 yeah the gap between riders might change but same outcome.
You cut the track in the morning! Who do you think you are AC?
Don't tell no one posts on CZcams🤣
250 or 450?
Doesn't the AMA have a rule on traction control?
@Tommy Ealey thanks, this topic will get messy when electric bikes come in.
My day we were men and didn’t have a ECU hooter dooter thing. Brappppp
Lmao ya me too but still ride and the modern bikes are beyond superior to the old stuff
Maps ,groomed tracks, maps ,efi .... why not mx vs atv unleahed?
Bonestock or not, those who are currently upfront will stay upfront. Or do you think factories hire slow untalented riders? The whole point of racing is developing and testing new technology. So that’s what they are doing. If you want to race stock and have a chance, enter a local race, preferably in a two-stroke class.
JOHNNIE Always love all your videos. Your a Professional Motorcycle rider. We look up to you , with your platform , and your inside info you ket us know about. WE LOVE THE DIRTY little secrets in the crooked sport. Of motocross and supercross. I'm NO genius. But Kenny Roxen his bike and HIM are cheating to the gills , I'm sure of it . He should NOT be able to EVER beat Tomac on any night of racing . He doesn't have the RAW SKILL that Eli has , but I can see from a MILE. Away Kenny's HONDA is cheated out as MAX as honda will and can go. I'll bet $1,000 dollars if USDA came to his front door at 3 am on 8 differant trips Un announced and tested him he would pop for PEDS . I'm almost sure of it. About 95% sure. But feld is letting him do this to make for great TV ratings .and just excitement so that Eli. Dont run off with a 4 race points lead going into 5 races to go. Ty for your insite, and BRAAAAP!!! KEEP THE AWESOME VIDEOS COMMING !!!!!🤘🤘🔥🔥💯
Yes hell yes ..!!
Fair to say not only are you most likely correct or 100% correct for that matter but there's cheating on top of that that we won't know about until we are a hundred and ten years old...KEEP MAKING THE VIDEOS ...you have gift and riding talent most all your audience does NOT possess.
You have to be inspiring The up-and-coming Young Riders and you probably are touching a few of them because there's so much disinformation a lollipop Wonderland watching TV and thinking everything is the same as the showroom floor
THANKYOU...!! TRUMP 2020!!!
You had me 100% untill 😥😥😭😭
But your a good person. So everyone is allowed our own political preference. But were all people . And all great people !!!! But I agree with you 100🤘👍👍✌
Thank you
I agree that they make a huge deal but honestly, if you put the top 10 dudes on a stock 450, I'm sure they would still beat the "slower" 40 guys. The level of talent doesn't get talked about enough in this sport because we have machines which really sucks because we're discrediting how talented the top elite guys are. Think about Tomac on a stock 450 vs dudes who are barley making the top 36 in qualifying. I'd guess that Tomac would be a few seconds a lap faster because the man is insane. Having that factory equipment does aid him and puts him another notch ahead.
My point, these dudes have to show they have the talent and speed to get the factory rides. You act like you can't get top 15's on a near stock bike. If the right dude has the conditioning and talent, he will get top 15's. Of course, this gets him noticed and he may pick up better equipment and training regiments further aiding in progress.
Just look at freddy norén when he was a privateer. He were still fighting the top ten many times. So yeah talent and skill is what get's them there at the end of the day.
slo mo.
I have a 2020 Yamaha yz450f, it doesn't have a TC setting per say but it has a phone app to adjust fuel and ignition tables to create custom maps. I had noticed a few times it felt laggy like it was spinning or slipping, which wasn't possible. So, being a no prep drag racer and knowing about how Holley sets up traction control using fuel and ignition tables and a few other things I decided to take a closer look at the Yamaha and sure enough the factory maps are set up to retard timing if it thinks your spinning but the problem is, I haven't found wheel speed sensors, so it can't really know you're spinning without rpm randomly jumping up, which is why it's so inconsistent. I had to make a custom tune to get rid of it. But I still use the Yamaha tunes on our sand track because it atleast works there. Also noticed slowing down at certain parts around a track can increase lap times. Even tho pros look like they blast around every corner and through every jump, they're going fast enough and have enough control to not notice them slowing down as much. Average riders are way more noticeable. We honestly don't ride for track times, we even built a straight rhythm course because we like jumping more but it is fun to try to keep up with or beat the fastest guy
P.S. DEAR THUMBS DOWN PLEASE STATE WHY ????..KEYBOARD CLOWNS