@@genesisosuna that's not a brawl exclusive. I'd argue players of all games harbour hatred to the other. Melee just tends to be the target because melee players do have a habit of putting others down, mainly yt comments. PM is a half exception because they're just sad
PPMD showed up less sure, but the « gods » no matter how corny it is, I do agree on that, were considered as such because they could only beat themselves especially in the glory days when the 5 of them could compete at the same time. PPMD, as most of you know has been sick for a while now, he just couldn’t go on, he still streams though ! Much love to him
Coney definitely ignores the fact that winning any major was a big deal back in the day. From 2008 all the way until 2014 no one outside of those 5 won any major tournaments, and even then the majors in 2014 that Leffen won only had Armada attending out of the 5 gods. Plus PPMD was fairly consistently better than M2K and Hbox in 2013 and 2014 which is when the whole 5 gods thing was becoming popular.
Yeah that was the point, these five guys were likely to win basically every game and every set... all day... every tournament unless they played each other. Imagine being ANY other melee player and knowing that there are some players in the room that are just so much better than you and everyone else.
@OSA don't think it's that. I think it's just the idea of calling them the gods is a bit Corby. Calling the name Corby doesn't really downplay the idea. I think a lot of smash players have to realise they are romanticising their own game a lot. I'm the grand scheme of things it may not even be the best FGC game in Spector value, id argue the thing holding smash back is how we view, we have to enable people to understand smash without having to feel so alien. I think that's why others are succeeding. No I don't hate Melee, just putting that out their I'm not just sine Ultimate kid. You may not be thinking that but I'm tryna cover my bases
PPMD was a god, since he only ever lost to the other gods, and was one of the few players among the 4 other gods to win majors and consistently be top 8. Unfortunately his health sidelined him for so long. That's what crippled his full potential
weren't they referred to as the gods because the only people to really beat them for an extended period was each other? at least thats what I thought was the reasoning for including m2k and ppmd
Yeah that was a period of time where for years only those 5 won the super majors at melee and for a notable bit majors with leffen being the one person who beat every god. while not winning a lot at the time compared to the 5 was due to his past and how generally it was only the other gods that beat him. PPMD won pound 5, apex 14 and 15 and zenith 2013 I want to say. Several huge tournies basicay which is why he was included as well
The origin of the god title comes from Scar comparing the “5 Gods” of melee and their dominance, to the Gods of Street Fighter. I’m not too invested in the FGC history but when arcades were the main way to play SF, 5 players ruled Japan for years (spanning to SF4 i think?) The name gained traction because Toph and Scar always commentated around that time, and Scar was the main story builder
I'm gonna fix your comparison there. Imagine MrBeast rolls up to an EVO-sized Ultimate tourney with Falco and starts whooping everyone with full-stage zero-to-death combos.
I got an even better one. This is literally the story of Lil Majin. He was an amateur tekken player who entered EVO for fun with King, a notoriously complicated and historically mid-tier character. He ended up winning the whole thing, taking down multiple tekken gods along the way.
im 32 and started in 64 back in 99, and competed in the chicago scene for both games. im kind of 50/50 between edge-hogging and ledge-trumping. both have their advantages. i have always felt that winning a game or set with an edge-hog was lame 80% of the time, but it got the job done. ledge-trumping to me is a really cool way to somewhat integrate offstage play and reward either player for their boldness.
The skill of edge hogs comes from when the opponent has other ways to return to stage that arent the ledge. Most characters in melee dont just go below stage then up b, as an example the space animals have a billion ways to recover Side b to ledge, shorten to ledge, side b onto stage, firefox straight, firefox low to ledge, high firefox > ledge, high firefox > stage, shine stalls etc. Correctly deducing which of these options your opponent will use and risking being reversal'd by the other options is a level of balls that isn't seen in ultimate with how safe 2 frames and ledge trumps are People only look at the times when the person recovering can only go to ledge to say that edge hogging is boring
mew2king was the best in melee and brawl at the same time for a while, mostly why he's considered a god. also because he was like the first to actually analyze frame data n stuff for melee
@@wichiewamirez5599 he definitely made some white supremacist talking points in that debate with destiny. I would like to believe he’s better now, but after Biden won, he posted a picture of the Banana Republic on Twitter. It wouldn’t make sense for him to post that unless he thought the election was tampered with. Anyways, if he isn’t racist, he is definitely ignorant.
Ppmd was one of the gods because during that stretch of time, there were 5 players who were consistently either winning or competing to win and ppmd was one of the five. He was winning or considered a top player for a few years before leffen really broke through. He actually may have been falling out with his health stuff when leffen really starting playing well.
PPMD just showed less, but when he did, he was god-tier, I think??? Fair enough though Also it's a shame Jontron turned into a crazy person, because he was THE guy for a time.
14:04 My (main) issue with ledge-hogging is the person grabbing ledge is supposed to be in disadvantage. Melee's edgehogging is SO beneficial that ledge is the safest place to be, provided you grab ledge again before your invincibility expires. See Westballz vs M2K, where M2K grabbed ledge over and over while throwing out Marth fair in-between ledge grabs. Westballz gave up because he couldn't contest M2K's "disadvantage" state.
disagree, ledges are generally disadvantageous in terms of stage control but only when you want to return to the stage. the ledge itself is safe, but its about the interaction afterwards that puts the person on the ledge at risk. this obviously gets skirted around if you just never leave the ledge.
Ledge hogging isn't why m2k camped, that's because they always renew invincibility. If this wasn't the case, westballz could've daird him whenever. Whilst the invincibility effect was changed alongside ledge hogging, meaning in smash we have only seen them together, they aren't tied to each other and ledgehogging doesn't need invincibility refresh.
M2K Westballz is a terrible example btw, West was just too afraid to do something. He could run up and grab ledge - even when Hbox ledge regrab was at its peak, the meta became "just run up and down tilt lol", seriously
@@mangaprofilepicture5820 Luigi's Cyclone in Melee has a charging system. The general gist is that using the move on the ground grants you the charge and using it in the air expends the charge. Luigi is unable to rise with the move via mashing if the charge is expended. This is what the bait was in reference to.
I could be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, PPMD reached "godhood" insanely fast. I ran the first Smash tourney he (and his brother, I think?) ever attended, or so he told me, at some dinky little video game store in NC. His first tourney, and he was taking out guys from our state's Power Rankings. I don't remember how high he placed, but he was super impressive from the offset.
I personally like edgehogging but I get why it was Removed and don't mind. You forget that 90% if not more that plays Smash are casuals and could not care for competitive balance and what competitive deems "fun." Casuals want to be able to get back on stage and fight more so devs buffed a lot of recoveries and removed edgehogging. Sm4sh was the worst with magnet hands but at least that was toned down into Ult.
I love how all the weird glitches and exploits in melee make it the lovable mess it is, but it’s still a valid e-sport Edit: 13:17 as someone who played competitive brawl, I like the old way better. Way more fair to both players
who was and wasn't a god is the people who could win majors between 09 and 18. in that time frame only the gods and Leffen won tournaments, the reason why he was the god slayer was he was the first ( and technically the only) won who had beaten all five but hadn't won a tournament. the reason why we don't think of Plup that way is because he was a little too late to play in the era with PPMD. most people would agree the five gods era definitely ended in 2018 when armada retired. the reason PP was so certainly a god was he had beat all of the other four consistently before the term was even coined, so he didn't have to be the slayer. Also i think he was ranked 1st in the summer 2014 rank, and only the gods ( and now Zain) have ever been ranked no.1 in the world.
12:26 I think chatter was right about missed wavedash sorta, I think that full hop land shield was a waveland on stage, which allows you to go a lot farther than a normal wavedash, but Abate just didn't tilt the stick enough to get a direction
9:04 "But he's been like this since Melee." My guy, Luigi's been the weird one since Super Mario Bros. 2. That's where he gained a higher jump and lost traction. Games that keep those two features simply add on to what was there and make him weirder. And yes mean Lost Levels (though it applies to Super Mario Bros. USA / Doki Doki Panic as well). And yes I'm aware this video is two years old.
13:38 (I play melee and ultimate) the reason I like the new system better is melee punishes way too hard for going deep off stage and technically ultimate does not (even though its best to just ledgetrap). Melee's ledge is just waaay too safe so a lot of edge guards feel kind of samey. In ultimate if you choose to edge guard instead of ledgetrap you have tons of options and even if they get back you can trump back air and still do stuff. You also don't just die if you have a bad recovery and your opponent grabs the ledge.
PPMD is a god. Because it’s not how many tournaments you win. It’s the way you win and the impact you make, and boy did PPMD make a huge impact on the Melee scene, especially the way he revolutionized the way people play falco
Should also try to check out AsumSaus at some point. I know his vid on the flaws with Melee is controversial to some of the pro players, but many of his other vids also do a good job highlighting the jank you see in many tournaments
I’m from the old days and much prefer ledge trumping. Edge hogging mainly hurt the worse characters, for example Zelda, Ganondorf, and so on. Everyone being *able* to grab ledge just means that there’s a lot more mind games allowed at ledge AND it means that players can go deeper off stage for active attempts to keep people from coming back. We can’t have the hype Fatality chasing off stage moments with ledge hogging, it’s extremely risky to go off stage with ledge hogging in place.
i prefer ledge guarding how it is in ultimate, as in "intercepting them before they have the chance to hit ledge" as opposed to "i touched ledge and you didnt"
Yooo wtf, I've never heard about JonTron showing up to a tournament! AND he just chaingrabs for one match. That's craaazy. He did play Brawl with Arin in the old Grump days, so I guess I'm not totally flabbergasted that he played Smash more than I thought.
4:41 This is how I play competitively some times and it's fucks people up so much 🤣 Doing things that don't make sense and playing low tier is one of my strats
TIL luigi's cyclone needs to be "charged" in melee. but the smashwiki doesnt explain what charging it actually does. does it make it do more damage or something?
Ik this is a year old but how luigi cyclone works when the move is charged it allows luigi to use the moves recovery utility(of course being mashing down b to rise up)However when the move is not charged cyclone recovery don't exist which makes you fall like a rock
Luigi down b can be charged or un charged. Un charged it cannot help with recovery. You charge it by using it on the ground. It becomea uncharges when using itnin the air.
What they should do or should’ve done with ledges should’ve been: ledge hogging exists but only when you have invincibility so if you grab the ledge before the other person but you have no invincibility the get a trump
@@treedude4246 I’m pretty sure that when Luigi in melee finished cyclone on stage he would get a charge which allows him to cyclone better the next time ye
RE: your comments about the five gods and why some were considered gods Armada and Mang0, self explanatory. Hungrybox could generally beat any of the five gods but could never beat all in attendance until 2014 when he started shooting for Armada's number one spot. Mew2King was the first god and was the best player in the world until Mang0, and even then was the last god to lose to Leffen. PPMD was usually considered the third or second best god throughout the five gods era, at least until the end and his eventual retirement. What defined godhood was at any point not losing very often. Even the worst god (most normally M2K or Hbox) was leagues better than the next best player. Leffen was not that good compared to the gods, he was just better by a long stretch than any other non-god. During the era before he beat every god he was giving people runs for their money, but could not beat M2K, and could not win anything with more than 3 gods in attendance to my knowledge.
Just because he wins one tournament doesn't mean he isn't a choker anymore. I hope he isn't anymore because it sucks to see people choke, but we'll just have to wait and see.
edgehogging > ledgetrumping With ledgetrumping, it makes offstage less disadvantageous than being cornered by the edge. The point in edgehogging is to force your opponent to land on stage, which is generally bad, because you get invincibility for recovering to ledge and your in endlag when you land on stage. Ledgetrumping doesn't do that which is why people tend to recover to ledge. Not to mention, recoveries have only gotten better over iterations of smash, so players will have more than enough resources to recover under the ledge 99% of the time. I thought the point in putting you opponent offstage is that they have no stage to work with and your resources are limited until you touch the stage again. But for characters like ROB, it seems has more options offstage than when he's cornered onstage, which, to me, is stupid. Like why should it be easier to kill someone when they have a little bit of stage control than when they have no stage control?
Thanks for watching Coney!
you had a rad vid broski
Thanks for making melee so interesting to outsiders of the community like me!
Love your stuff dude, getting to watch Coney's goofy shit on top of it is just the cherry on top.
Hehe, Walt is a good name
@@samdilophosaur9787 how did you manage to send this right as I was watching the first episode of breaking bad, funny coincidence
I love the Cosmos choke joke coming out the day after he wins Glitch
Well he did choke in winners
As a Cosmos fan I can confirm he has choked a lot in the past tho 😔 but yeah I’m so happy he won the major
Zomba just choked harder in grand finals.
6:09 That example is so funny because Timothée Chalamet actually plays (or played) melee and has an old youtube channel where he mods controllers
2:57 this was like
The first time ive seen coneys general facade of baiting dropped
He seemed legit angry here
Either he was low-key completely serious or gave a very convincing performance.
@@SaberToothPortilla i think the first part was serious but went to joking at the "we are all buddy buddy now"
lowkey Coney's done years of research
I feel like a lot of brawl players have a lot of bottled up hatred and anger against melee players.
@@genesisosuna that's not a brawl exclusive. I'd argue players of all games harbour hatred to the other. Melee just tends to be the target because melee players do have a habit of putting others down, mainly yt comments.
PM is a half exception because they're just sad
PPMD showed up less sure, but the « gods » no matter how corny it is, I do agree on that, were considered as such because they could only beat themselves especially in the glory days when the 5 of them could compete at the same time.
PPMD, as most of you know has been sick for a while now, he just couldn’t go on, he still streams though !
Much love to him
Coney definitely ignores the fact that winning any major was a big deal back in the day. From 2008 all the way until 2014 no one outside of those 5 won any major tournaments, and even then the majors in 2014 that Leffen won only had Armada attending out of the 5 gods.
Plus PPMD was fairly consistently better than M2K and Hbox in 2013 and 2014 which is when the whole 5 gods thing was becoming popular.
Yeah that was the point, these five guys were likely to win basically every game and every set... all day... every tournament unless they played each other. Imagine being ANY other melee player and knowing that there are some players in the room that are just so much better than you and everyone else.
@OSA don't think it's that. I think it's just the idea of calling them the gods is a bit Corby. Calling the name Corby doesn't really downplay the idea. I think a lot of smash players have to realise they are romanticising their own game a lot. I'm the grand scheme of things it may not even be the best FGC game in Spector value, id argue the thing holding smash back is how we view, we have to enable people to understand smash without having to feel so alien. I think that's why others are succeeding.
No I don't hate Melee, just putting that out their I'm not just sine Ultimate kid. You may not be thinking that but I'm tryna cover my bases
Hungrybox was the last one of the 5 to be recognized as a god... I'm surprised Coney didn't know that
PPMD was a god, since he only ever lost to the other gods, and was one of the few players among the 4 other gods to win majors and consistently be top 8.
Unfortunately his health sidelined him for so long. That's what crippled his full potential
Did y’all know subscribing to Coney is free? I didn’t, but now my life is so much better knowing that it is and having done it
Yes. Subbing changes your life
I did not, but this comment helped me to turn my life around(single parent on heroin now reformed)
@@michaelkarim57 I'm so proud
Big vouch. 👌
I stopped watching all other Smash content and my life has improved immensely after consuming Conerium
weren't they referred to as the gods because the only people to really beat them for an extended period was each other? at least thats what I thought was the reasoning for including m2k and ppmd
Yeah that was a period of time where for years only those 5 won the super majors at melee and for a notable bit majors with leffen being the one person who beat every god. while not winning a lot at the time compared to the 5 was due to his past and how generally it was only the other gods that beat him. PPMD won pound 5, apex 14 and 15 and zenith 2013 I want to say. Several huge tournies basicay which is why he was included as well
That and they were the only people winning major tournaments from 2008 until 2014.
The origin of the god title comes from Scar comparing the “5 Gods” of melee and their dominance, to the Gods of Street Fighter. I’m not too invested in the FGC history but when arcades were the main way to play SF, 5 players ruled Japan for years (spanning to SF4 i think?)
The name gained traction because Toph and Scar always commentated around that time, and Scar was the main story builder
@@hibiki8473 and almost plup.
@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 2008 to 2016*
"Cole and Dylan Sprouse.. from Big Daddy" 😂
Not Suite Life of Zach and Cody. BIG DADDY 😂
You miss 100% of the misfires you don't go for, Coney.
I'm gonna fix your comparison there.
Imagine MrBeast rolls up to an EVO-sized Ultimate tourney with Falco and starts whooping everyone with full-stage zero-to-death combos.
I got an even better one. This is literally the story of Lil Majin. He was an amateur tekken player who entered EVO for fun with King, a notoriously complicated and historically mid-tier character. He ended up winning the whole thing, taking down multiple tekken gods along the way.
@@theotherjared9824lil majin didn’t win evo tho
I literally came here to say that 😂
I've never heard of the guy he said but if you said Mr. Beast we'd all know.
Wow this JonTron guy sounds awesome! I’m gonna look up what cool stuff he’s been doing since then
we havent heard from seth since.
Genuine question, what happened with JonTron?
White supremacist ideology from why understanding
@@myrox8792he moved to New York so he realese videos on his channel still but not as much as when he was on game grumps
Yup, still making comedy videos.
im 32 and started in 64 back in 99, and competed in the chicago scene for both games. im kind of 50/50 between edge-hogging and ledge-trumping. both have their advantages. i have always felt that winning a game or set with an edge-hog was lame 80% of the time, but it got the job done. ledge-trumping to me is a really cool way to somewhat integrate offstage play and reward either player for their boldness.
I'd prefer if edgehoggint only worked with well timed rolls
The skill of edge hogs comes from when the opponent has other ways to return to stage that arent the ledge.
Most characters in melee dont just go below stage then up b, as an example the space animals have a billion ways to recover
Side b to ledge, shorten to ledge, side b onto stage, firefox straight, firefox low to ledge, high firefox > ledge, high firefox > stage, shine stalls etc.
Correctly deducing which of these options your opponent will use and risking being reversal'd by the other options is a level of balls that isn't seen in ultimate with how safe 2 frames and ledge trumps are
People only look at the times when the person recovering can only go to ledge to say that edge hogging is boring
mew2king was the best in melee and brawl at the same time for a while, mostly why he's considered a god. also because he was like the first to actually analyze frame data n stuff for melee
Its actually insane jontron was there. Mustve been the most hype tourney ever
Was this where he said H
@@relaxation_and_tax_evasion this was where he decided to be racist. It was inspired by the smash bros community.
@@notswush except he’s not racist. Go spread your misinformation somewhere else
@@wichiewamirez5599 look at those chain grabs. He's obviously some sort of freak.
@@wichiewamirez5599 he definitely made some white supremacist talking points in that debate with destiny. I would like to believe he’s better now, but after Biden won, he posted a picture of the Banana Republic on Twitter. It wouldn’t make sense for him to post that unless he thought the election was tampered with. Anyways, if he isn’t racist, he is definitely ignorant.
"stop reading anime" okay grandpa it's time for bed
Gotta get Grandpa Coney to bed so his dentures can soak
To be fair, this makes sense for the weebs who choose subs over dubs.
Ppmd was one of the gods because during that stretch of time, there were 5 players who were consistently either winning or competing to win and ppmd was one of the five. He was winning or considered a top player for a few years before leffen really broke through. He actually may have been falling out with his health stuff when leffen really starting playing well.
PPMD just showed less, but when he did, he was god-tier, I think??? Fair enough though
Also it's a shame Jontron turned into a crazy person, because he was THE guy for a time.
He showed a lot, he was definitely better than Hbox and M2K in the early 2010s which was when the whole 5 gods thing started coming up.
Its generally shame yeah
Cause he is MAD funny but like
Hmmmmm
14:04 My (main) issue with ledge-hogging is the person grabbing ledge is supposed to be in disadvantage.
Melee's edgehogging is SO beneficial that ledge is the safest place to be, provided you grab ledge again before your invincibility expires.
See Westballz vs M2K, where M2K grabbed ledge over and over while throwing out Marth fair in-between ledge grabs.
Westballz gave up because he couldn't contest M2K's "disadvantage" state.
Yeah Melee ledges are dumb haha. West did let the salt get to him tho
disagree, ledges are generally disadvantageous in terms of stage control but only when you want to return to the stage. the ledge itself is safe, but its about the interaction afterwards that puts the person on the ledge at risk. this obviously gets skirted around if you just never leave the ledge.
Ledge hogging isn't why m2k camped, that's because they always renew invincibility. If this wasn't the case, westballz could've daird him whenever.
Whilst the invincibility effect was changed alongside ledge hogging, meaning in smash we have only seen them together, they aren't tied to each other and ledgehogging doesn't need invincibility refresh.
@@ego9939 So, what if you don't want to return to stage?
What about wavedashing onto stage with invincibility before it wears off?
M2K Westballz is a terrible example btw, West was just too afraid to do something. He could run up and grab ledge - even when Hbox ledge regrab was at its peak, the meta became "just run up and down tilt lol", seriously
I'M CRYING LMAO
He caught me with the cyclone bait 💔💔💔💔
Wait whats the cyclone bait? I feel like its on the tip of my tongue but i can’t remember what the bait was in reference to
@@mangaprofilepicture5820 Luigi's Cyclone in Melee has a charging system. The general gist is that using the move on the ground grants you the charge and using it in the air expends the charge. Luigi is unable to rise with the move via mashing if the charge is expended. This is what the bait was in reference to.
2:57 was real. Melee players did treat us like lesser people, if like people.
I could be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, PPMD reached "godhood" insanely fast.
I ran the first Smash tourney he (and his brother, I think?) ever attended, or so he told me, at some dinky little video game store in NC. His first tourney, and he was taking out guys from our state's Power Rankings. I don't remember how high he placed, but he was super impressive from the offset.
I personally like edgehogging but I get why it was Removed and don't mind. You forget that 90% if not more that plays Smash are casuals and could not care for competitive balance and what competitive deems "fun." Casuals want to be able to get back on stage and fight more so devs buffed a lot of recoveries and removed edgehogging. Sm4sh was the worst with magnet hands but at least that was toned down into Ult.
I thought brawl was magnet hands
Maybe since it had the switch it still carries the stereotype
I thought it was common knowledge that Hbox was the last of the 5 gods to gain god status, I'm surprised Coney didn't know that
I love how all the weird glitches and exploits in melee make it the lovable mess it is, but it’s still a valid e-sport
Edit: 13:17 as someone who played competitive brawl, I like the old way better. Way more fair to both players
As a Luigi main, this set was extremely satisfying to watch
who was and wasn't a god is the people who could win majors between 09 and 18. in that time frame only the gods and Leffen won tournaments, the reason why he was the god slayer was he was the first ( and technically the only) won who had beaten all five but hadn't won a tournament. the reason why we don't think of Plup that way is because he was a little too late to play in the era with PPMD. most people would agree the five gods era definitely ended in 2018 when armada retired. the reason PP was so certainly a god was he had beat all of the other four consistently before the term was even coined, so he didn't have to be the slayer. Also i think he was ranked 1st in the summer 2014 rank, and only the gods ( and now Zain) have ever been ranked no.1 in the world.
Yo that bait at 11:13 had me rolling for a minute
Hilarious XD
I love how the 8 bit graphic of the 5 melee gods accurately represented M2Kings hairline
12:26 I think chatter was right about missed wavedash sorta, I think that full hop land shield was a waveland on stage, which allows you to go a lot farther than a normal wavedash, but Abate just didn't tilt the stick enough to get a direction
9:04 "But he's been like this since Melee."
My guy, Luigi's been the weird one since Super Mario Bros. 2. That's where he gained a higher jump and lost traction. Games that keep those two features simply add on to what was there and make him weirder.
And yes mean Lost Levels (though it applies to Super Mario Bros. USA / Doki Doki Panic as well).
And yes I'm aware this video is two years old.
13:38 (I play melee and ultimate) the reason I like the new system better is melee punishes way too hard for going deep off stage and technically ultimate does not (even though its best to just ledgetrap). Melee's ledge is just waaay too safe so a lot of edge guards feel kind of samey. In ultimate if you choose to edge guard instead of ledgetrap you have tons of options and even if they get back you can trump back air and still do stuff. You also don't just die if you have a bad recovery and your opponent grabs the ledge.
props to the editor for that Dastardly reference
PPMD is a god. Because it’s not how many tournaments you win. It’s the way you win and the impact you make, and boy did PPMD make a huge impact on the Melee scene, especially the way he revolutionized the way people play falco
Should also try to check out AsumSaus at some point. I know his vid on the flaws with Melee is controversial to some of the pro players, but many of his other vids also do a good job highlighting the jank you see in many tournaments
Luigi is the altrive of smash bros
Can’t believe that Coney predicted Cosmos winning a tournament
I’m from the old days and much prefer ledge trumping. Edge hogging mainly hurt the worse characters, for example Zelda, Ganondorf, and so on. Everyone being *able* to grab ledge just means that there’s a lot more mind games allowed at ledge AND it means that players can go deeper off stage for active attempts to keep people from coming back.
We can’t have the hype Fatality chasing off stage moments with ledge hogging, it’s extremely risky to go off stage with ledge hogging in place.
I have no idea what you’re talking about deep edge guards happen literally all the time in melee LOL
@@doomgu544 with…who? Jigglypuff Pikachu and Fox? Maybe Peach horizontally. Possibly G&W too.
@@doomgu544 off stage moments in ultimate mostly feel lame because of ledgetrumping. also recoveries are insanely overpowered imo
This video of Walt's is very well made, fascinating and funny. It's what got me into Melee content on CZcams
Asumsaus has a good movie on when PPMD was #1 in the world which highlights how good he was. When he was in his prime, oh boy.
i prefer ledge guarding how it is in ultimate, as in "intercepting them before they have the chance to hit ledge" as opposed to "i touched ledge and you didnt"
"Cole and Dylan Sprouse" :D
"From Big Daddy" D:
Imagine how sad it would feel losing to a green dork doing his best mime impression
I never knew that John Tron played smash him showing up to that and chain grabbing is awesome
I remember watching when this happen and yelling ceiling glitch as the casters did know what happened.
Angry Coney is amazing
I just noticed during your cosmos speech was spliced
I had no clue jontron played melee that Story is kinda cool
Yes! More TDFW content! I’d recommend watching the Axe video if that’s in your interest :)
14:25 THANK YOU
Funny that coney used Timothee Chalamet as the example because he actually played Melee at that time
Yooo wtf, I've never heard about JonTron showing up to a tournament! AND he just chaingrabs for one match. That's craaazy. He did play Brawl with Arin in the old Grump days, so I guess I'm not totally flabbergasted that he played Smash more than I thought.
4:41 This is how I play competitively some times and it's fucks people up so much 🤣 Doing things that don't make sense and playing low tier is one of my strats
Timothy Chalamet is a melee frog so he would never
Every game at some point or another will become a flow chart. Thats just how it goes.
Had to google what the bait was, i always thought the luigi down B was just a stupid taunt in between stocks
This is completely unrelated Coney, but have you ever seen the bee movie?
You have to watch the meleestats video on ppmd and lozr vs hbox and crunch. It's soooooo good
"YOU STILL GOT IT
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
YOU STILL GOT IT"
Crowd knew how to make that engaging and hype
Genuinely leaving a like on this video because Coney gives credit to the people he's reacting to
I played against abate’s marth on unranked once and he kept wd downsmashing me
Yo, Turndownforwalt content?!? Heck yeah. Shoutouts to his "Best of _____" montages, I loved those vids.
6:28
Damn ummm... I kinda don't know who this is...
TIL luigi's cyclone needs to be "charged" in melee. but the smashwiki doesnt explain what charging it actually does. does it make it do more damage or something?
Ik this is a year old but how luigi cyclone works when the move is charged it allows luigi to use the moves recovery utility(of course being mashing down b to rise up)However when the move is not charged cyclone recovery don't exist which makes you fall like a rock
14:56 I LOVE LEAN 💜
FELLAS!
Coney will smith is relevant, he's one of the biggest youtubers
I never knew John Tron played smash :D
11:12 the best bait of all time
Lmao the JonTron appearance
Luigi down b can be charged or un charged. Un charged it cannot help with recovery. You charge it by using it on the ground. It becomea uncharges when using itnin the air.
Chat not knowing who timothee chalomet is very telling
What they should do or should’ve done with ledges should’ve been: ledge hogging exists but only when you have invincibility so if you grab the ledge before the other person but you have no invincibility the get a trump
eddy mexico is a real one
I got baited by the luigi down B thing
6:43 he WHAT
funny thing timmy plays melee
The down B after taking a stock is to charge the move
We are so many layers of irony deep that idk if this is a legit response or a bait
@@treedude4246 I’m pretty sure that when Luigi in melee finished cyclone on stage he would get a charge which allows him to cyclone better the next time ye
@@treedude4246 Luigi cyclone have 2 state, one of them is good, the other one isn't, so you reset it to have the good one !
Timothee Chalome actually really like Smash Bros
RE: your comments about the five gods and why some were considered gods
Armada and Mang0, self explanatory. Hungrybox could generally beat any of the five gods but could never beat all in attendance until 2014 when he started shooting for Armada's number one spot. Mew2King was the first god and was the best player in the world until Mang0, and even then was the last god to lose to Leffen. PPMD was usually considered the third or second best god throughout the five gods era, at least until the end and his eventual retirement.
What defined godhood was at any point not losing very often. Even the worst god (most normally M2K or Hbox) was leagues better than the next best player. Leffen was not that good compared to the gods, he was just better by a long stretch than any other non-god. During the era before he beat every god he was giving people runs for their money, but could not beat M2K, and could not win anything with more than 3 gods in attendance to my knowledge.
Who was the strongest god
@@spicymeatballs2thespicening armada probably, armada makes the strongest case for it
Yes, cosmos the choker who won glitch last night lmao, shit changes
Just because he wins one tournament doesn't mean he isn't a choker anymore.
I hope he isn't anymore because it sucks to see people choke, but we'll just have to wait and see.
This video is just Coney explaining for far too long that he hates fun
Leffen got called the God Slayer, as the first to beat all 5. Leffen's fairly sus, but that title is dope af.
PPMD is the Hades?
You should react to AsumSaus he does great content on Melee
Lol that Jontron fact was random. Good to know.
"Obama SDI-ing Bayo comboes"
JON TRON KNOWS HOW TO CHAINGRAB POG!
11:25 - See Asumsaus Port Priority for why Luigi Down Bs. :)
iBDW posted a vid of a Bo5 with Abate on unranked
Timothée Chalamet already sad that he was into melee
The Cosmos part aged very well
edgehogging > ledgetrumping
With ledgetrumping, it makes offstage less disadvantageous than being cornered by the edge. The point in edgehogging is to force your opponent to land on stage, which is generally bad, because you get invincibility for recovering to ledge and your in endlag when you land on stage. Ledgetrumping doesn't do that which is why people tend to recover to ledge. Not to mention, recoveries have only gotten better over iterations of smash, so players will have more than enough resources to recover under the ledge 99% of the time. I thought the point in putting you opponent offstage is that they have no stage to work with and your resources are limited until you touch the stage again. But for characters like ROB, it seems has more options offstage than when he's cornered onstage, which, to me, is stupid. Like why should it be easier to kill someone when they have a little bit of stage control than when they have no stage control?
Bruh ppmd didnt go to big house cuz he was depressed
Anyone think Coney should watch the April Fools Hbox faint clip?
I wouldn't mind ledge hogging if you remove ledge invincibility.
AsumSaus is another really good melee youtuber
i accept no PPMD slander
Coney- “melee is corny”
no yeah sometimes made my day
brawl ledges were my personal fav. actually had to hold and not melee where you can just occupy it for 2 seconds as you slowly roll off ledge