Plot Comes Last When I Write A Screenplay - Elias Daughdrill
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- čas přidán 22. 04. 2021
- Eli Daughdrill teaches courses in both film production and film studies at Long Beach City College. He is a working filmmaker; his documentary Jonas, which details his brother’s struggles with schizophrenia, is available via Amazon.com.
He has written and directed several short films (including Professor, Cosmetics, and Open My Eyes).
In 2019, he released the feature film FAITH starring Brian Geraghty, Nora-Jane Noone, Iddo Goldberg, Aaron Guest, Thomas Francis Murphy, Lucca Daughdrill, and Julien Daughdrill. The film is a story of a devout Evangelical Christian struggles with his faith and against the insistent pressures from his family and community after a sudden and unexpected tragedy.
Professor Daughdrill earned an MFA in Film Production from Loyola Marymount University and a BA in Cinema Studies from San Francisco State University. He lives in Long Beach with his wife and two sons.
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![Why Plot Doesn't Help Writers Finish A Story - Alan Watt [Founder of L.A. Writers' Lab]](/img/n.gif)
I once read "character is plot," meaning the plot is the external metaphor, the visual representation, of the story's theme. In good stories, the characters drive the plot, not the other way around.
That has always stuck with me.
People like to treat writing a screen play, as paint by numbers, when it's actually a free flowing and ever evolving work of art.
Good luck.
Facts.
Every work of art has rules and form.
Every writer has their own way of working. For me the plot comes first every time.
Plot comes last he says. I always find it fascinating when writers claim that "this comes first" or "this is most important" completely ignoring the fact that it all has to work together, as a whole. As if one thing could function on its own, with the rest being birthday cake or window dressing.
This is how we end up with nonsensical plot, bland stories and improbable scenarios, mediocre movies with lots of emotional characters that have nothing to say.
Could not agree more. Plot isn't unimportant, or separate from character, it is motivated by it. The absence of plot is an absence of story.
True, but this is where context comes in. What works for them, might not work for you. So for instance, you might have a natural tendency to plan out everything, yet that can get in the way of your spontaneity. A better balance might then be to focus more on letting the characters show you who they are. Since planning and structure is already one of the things you do naturally, what little you do, requires less effort. Same for writing notes for scatter brains vs people that can remember the tiniest details years later.
Evidently what this guy is doing seems to be working for him, whether you agree if his work is the best you think it could be, or if his methods apply to you requires introspection. Which is where you'll find the most value for these kinds of interviews.
Yeah, I agree.
I see issues with plotting everything in advance and sticking to it 100%. Your story can't grow. Better to treat plotting as more of a guide than something strictly to adhere to. But in the same measure, tacking any plotting on at the end, I don't even see how one could have a coherent story in that case.
I agree with him and he’s successful
It absolutely makes sense. I just started to play with a new story idea two days ago and used, for the first time, a good old notebook. No electronic devices at all and it works surprisingly good. Shifting from plot is a good advice especially for "new" writers. It's easy to get lost in plot structure and lose the drive of the original idea.
I write exactly in the same way. Except I’m constantly talking into my phone into the notepad 😂
Same here! Any ideas for stories or, “huh, what if this was a movie?” kind of ideas live in a folder in my notes app.
😂😂 Mine is everywhere. Paper, google doc, index card, scrap paper, OneNote.
I used to do the phone but I went back to notepads. Now people are always asking me about my notepad which creates a conversation. But I love it both ways. Happy writing.
Folded up sticky notes.....so many folded up sticky notes. Oh, the joys of trying to write while also working in a warehouse.
I know this advice sounds good on it’s surface but a strong plot is very important. If your characters have nothing to do or aren’t thriving for something, no matter what it is, than it will feel like a nothing script
He says pretty clearly that he imposes plot in his redraft.
@@L_Martin That's the problem; you can't impose an element as integral as the plot after you've written the scenes. The scenes don't flow from one to the next seamlessly. If you leave the plot to be imposed, up to that point your screenplay will literally be just like The Room; a meandering series of scenes tenuously held together by a vague theme that can't properly be conveyed without a plot to force the characters to make difficult decisions under pressure.
@@thomasmacisaac1503 I relate a lot to this “impose rigid plot later” approach simply because every single story I’ve ever attempted to write with plot structure first was a story I never got beyond the plotting stages with because I bored myself to tears. It made me hate the process. Whereas writing unstructured (a “pantser”) and getting as far as you can, throwing things roughly together, getting stuck at some point, sticking it in a drawer, then returning to it a while later and imposing structure THEN… That’s how I’ve gotten my books actually written. I think people are too rigid. Going at it plot first might be best for most people? Not for me.
thomasmacisaac Plot is just the order of events that a story is told in. It can definitely be refined later. You do want to understand what the story is early enough on but the plot is an implementation of that story so it’s better not to lead with it.
1:14 wow it is so refreshing to hear a writer say this, it’s how I’ve felt for a long time, after killing my enthusiasm for what feels like SO MANY stories by trying to Robert McKee my way through plot and scene/sequel, turning point, act structure 🤢 Doing all that anywhere near the front half of the process kills it dead for me. I feel like the life drains out of the work when I try and think about plot in such a structured way. Now, BACK half of the process, it’s great stuff. But I need to be “in love” and just flow with what excites me in an unstructured way for the front half of the process.
I really like the idea of writing a draft before structure - I can easily fall into the trap of idea, then structure, then draft and can see how that places too much emphasis on plot and not character. This way is a nice middle-ground to get started from - also still want to live out the 'dream' of renting a place for a week to finish a screenplay.
What's everyone's place of choice - room by the ocean or cabin in the woods?
You always ask such interesting questions! :)
I always try to look at the work before we take earnestly what “experts” have to say. There are so-called “authors” of books on CZcams giving sage advice. Same with directors/ writers. Problem is most are unpublished or self published. No disrespect to Mr. Daughdrill because he did get a movie made which is more than most people can say...BUT seriously, seriously this is a tiny movie, an indie movie with only two user reviews on IMDb that average 5.8. A RIDICULOUSLY low rating. Rotten tomatoes rating? There are no reviews. I guess Robert Zemeckis was on vacation. The most important point I want to make is he cares little of plot and more of the characters, and I hear this a lot - I think it started with Stephen King. It’s total bullshit. You need a balance of well plotted movie or a book combined great characters. In fact one of the (only) two reviews on IMDb stated there “was basically no storyline to follow.” So there you have it. Take it from once it came.
Its credibility. I'll listen to what GRRM or Alan Moore say about story telling but some 24 year old woman on Booktube talking about how to write is not something I'm interested in hearing
I love how we are referring to two ratings on IMDB to talk about the plot in this guy’s movie. It’s an indie movie. They don’t always get a ton of ratings but that doesn’t mean it’s not very good. I also love how you mention a reviewer on IMDB saying the movie lacks plot. In the 1st ten minutes of the movie the main character hits his son and his son dies from an over dose while the main character tries to save him. Lol. That’s a lot of big events in ten minutes. Maybe there isn’t enough aliens threatening to take over earth in this movie and maybe the fact that it’s about a guy and his wife isn’t enough to keep the masses entertained. Maybe we need to add 14 superheroes and an alien that snaps his fingers to kill half the planet. People are dumb. I swear
Likewise. The characters and themes. Every time.
Hey! I'm curious if he might be able to share what the draft between the notes and outline stages looks like. Something like a raw scrapbook of possible rather unconnected scenes including "gaps" that then would be "filled" during the outlining process?
Wonderful. I love how here is an iterative process that does not entail a Linear Process.
This may explain why I have trouble understanding the plots of some films I watch. Now it’s clearer, according to this video, it may have been a film about characters and themes and plot was the last thing on the writer’s priority list.
What did you like about this video?
I always love the real, raw advice from these amazing artists!
Thanks Moses, we appreciate you stopping by
I liked that the artist was laid back and relatable.
Thanks for watching Joseph!
That jukebox in the background.
I write the same way! Glad to hear there are others
Great, down to earth advice.
Call it whatever you want, get there in whatever way works... plot matters lol
I write exactly the same way also, but instead of "pounding it out" in three days it takes me at least three months... every three years... minimum (definitely not the careerist!!). Am I bad?
Finally, someone who writes like me.
A fellow LMU Alumni, awesome!
A very misleading yellow sticker on the video. PLOT MATTERS. Yes of course character will always trump plot, but it doesn't help you have game-of-thrones-level characters that gets FORCED into bad plotting (as we've seen for example). The art of plotting is like a rubik's cube, you need to turn that cube until you get at least 2 colours perfect.
He's so disorganized, he mistook himself for someone who was organized
I do exactly the opposite, no, characters is just a literary weapon, yes they are important but the how is more to me than the characters and the hole journey's hero has to take a break as well as the Aristotelian 3 acts. We need new ways, new forms to tell new stories. Those are my two cents.
I agree with his approach, as I am pretty much the same BottomUpFirst way (collecting thoughts, letting them blend, letting the characters speak,...) and in this way work towards what I think makes a set of interesting characters. Then -- once there is a critical mass, then develop outlines, ensure causality in the plot, hit the beats, etc. I find the risk to starting top down is that you miss the story you might otherwise have discovered; one that has the emotions that make the characters worth caring about, and thus hold you to the end.
Can’t do it this way. Plot comes first for me then pick the best characters for that story.
Proves we are all different.
In the past I’ve plotted but if a beat or point interrupts or holds up the story with no good reason, I’ll junk it
❤❤❤
Love it. I really connected with what he was talking about.
"If it's interesting to me, then it's prolly going to be interesting to others!" - I relate with that!
Why is this guy giving us classes he has done literally nothing in his life
He might do more if he cared about plot.
Same, for some
This sounds dumb to me. This guy has had produced, just 5 things, and only one was an actual film. The other 4 were shorts. Shorts he shot and produced himself.
My advice. Take your most marketable idea, write it super fast, in like three days like he did, and make the first scene awesome. They are not keeping everything you wrote, IF, big IF, they buy it, and produce it.
Is he in front of a green screen?
This was filmed at Long Beach City College.
To be a screenwriter and say “I’m not interested in plot at all” doesn’t make sense to me… But hey, to each their own.
Hi Elias *****
This advice may work for him, but most bad screenplays are bad because they lack structure and flow and end up dull and aimless.
This is terrible advice. You need both. Concluded.
Outlining isn't about plot though.
Says who? Outlining is about outlining whatever you need to outline. Some people actually care about plot.
I took a couple classes from Eli. Absolutely one of the best professors out there!!
🤦
HAHHH............no wonder your shows go down the sewer drain.