Why Can’t We Make New Stradivari Violins?
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Stradivarius are synonymous with quality, but how we can replicate their sound is a mystery!
Hosted by: Hank Green
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You focus on Stradivarious but dont say a thing about Guarneri violins.
Thanks for the info, getting some now. Have a gooden
Yes, because I need yet *another* beverage option.
I really think I might have a drinking problem.
@@Cloakingsunako More commonly known, for some reason.
The blind test was performed in 2012 czcams.com/video/OHXOPjI9l0I/video.html
I suspect part of the reason Strads sound so good is that you have to be a world class violinist to even be invited to play one.
Let me just brush up on my violin skills that I haven't acquired yet...
The other half of the puzzle/story no one is mentioning here. Bravo 👏, for thinking outside of the box.
Yes, I can imagine that million dollar violin isn't going to sound so good in the hands of a junior-high beginner. ;)
@@davecasey4341 oh, man, all my dreams are crushed!
oh, man, all my dreams are crushed. You were AWESOME in Quantum Leap, for what it's worth.....
Maybe the real Strads were the friends we made along the way.
Bro I remember comments from the Muscle Hank account from years ago. The fact that this joke account is still around truly means you are worthy of being Muscle Hank
No, the friends we made along the way were Chads. As good as Strads, but not quite the same.
And the dobros we met along the way were all DADGAD's.
I'll see myself out...
I was gonna say that the Strad was in our hearts the whole time, but you pretty much beat me to it
Bonus points
Fun add: in the double blind test they made the players wear welding goggles so they couldn't see the instruments and they put perfume on the chin rests so they couldn't smell the instruments. They didn't want any preconceived notions affecting the players.
What were the results?
@@cpetrizzi 6:10
So no difference between a strad and a normal modern violin.
I play pretty bad when I wear welding goggles. I weld pretty good, though.
@@soaringvulture ok, but the violin players would know the difference even if they played bad. And they thought the modern instruments sounded better. Plus, they would've played both instruments bad if that were the case.
I saw a strad violin at the met museum. The next day I had lunch with a cello professor friend. I said isn’t it a shame that a strad sits unplayed in the museum. She remarked that of the 650 or so out there, only about 50 would be considered to be of high quality. Many have been repaired poorly, damaged or simply weren’t good from the start. She had played all 8 strad cellos and found that only three could be called great instruments.
That's some interesting insight, thanks for sharing :)
That sounds about right from a professional musician. They are particularly picky about their instruments, because after a few thousand hours you start having preferences.
A cello professor made that determination? A "cello professor!" Did you hear yourself? Would you like me to repeat it? How about if you ask Yo Yo Ma, Jascha Heifetz, Isaac Stern, or Itzhak Perlman, what they think of the strad - then get back to me (Those that can, do - those that can't, teach). In the meantime, say hello to your cello professor friend for me.
@@r-leanmygirl-gj2ktUm, this is a Wendy's
@@r-leanmygirl-gj2ktwhat’s your point??
"Why Can’t We Make New Stradivari Violins?"
I would imagine it's because the guy's dead.
Okay, but what if, hear me out...
we get a new guy named stradivari to make violins?
@@jasonling5477 Then the line of instruments would need to be given an informative name so as to not deceive customers: Strativarius II or something like that.
How about Stradivari, light? Or, Stradivari, Jr.?
@@JDavidHopkins You clearly missed the part where I said, "or something like that."
@@JDavidHopkins Neo Stradivari sound coool
Clearly, their unique sound comes from the souls of dead violinists trapped inside.
Pearl with the straight facts
The ones who went mad are especially good at resonating
Ugh, probably. Those were different times. Now there’s a lengthy application process and like 3 permits you need to trap even a single soul of a dead violinist. It’s so much red tape and for what?
...that kinda implies those violins are cursed...
It's common knowledge that Stradivari made a deal with the devil to be the best violin maker ever. As a result, each violin does, indeed, capture the souls of those who play them. The souls are trapped in the violin until such a time as the violin gets somehow destroyed, at which time the souls are pulled down hell and used by Satan, himself, as strings on his own violin. Johnny ain't never going to beat him again!
In November there was a huge “coming soon” poster in my local mall for a new store named Stradivarius.
I had to leave the state for Christmas and when I came back in January, I discovered it was just a clothing store. As a violinist my soul broke and was so disappointed
That would be disappointing. They missed out on an obvious pun. Should have called it "Strand-a-various". 😁
I feel your pain
Yeah, what the heck? What they were even thinking? I'm not a musician, and I was unpleasantly surprised when I saw one in my local mall.
We've had that in London for a good few years now, 1st time I heard the name, my sister explained what it meant
Yeah a "hot fashion" brand from Inditex.
Maybe the real acoustic characteristics of a stradivarus were the friends we made along the way
You don't need a Stradivarius when you have... family
Sell the family to buy a Stradivarius
@@michaelmurphy2112 For that ten seconds or less, I'm a strad
you're hilarious
wayn
Why am I not surprised the double-blind test proved that no one could tell the difference? 🙄 People are easily persuaded. The Wine Industry has been doing this for centuries.
Indeed. The double-blind playing/listening test results (the most important segment of the vid) had to wait to the end of the vid because they render moot most of what came before.
Yeah there was an experiment in Australia some years back where wine tasters were given quite expensive wines (in the $150/bottle range) and a $20/bottle wine from Aldi was slipped in among the fancy stuff. The Aldi wine ended up winning.
@@sirgog Some of the 2L cask wines have won medals at international wine competitions. Many of even our cheap wines are very good.
As for the sound, I'm sure it's been done, but he didn't mention audio frequency analysis of the sounds produced by the various modern & old violins.
Me tasting wine:
$12 bottle: This tastes like expired grapes.
$400 bottle: Ah, yes, this also tastes like expired grapes.
Wait, so the wine industry has been making Stradivarius violins?! Take me to their secret lair! 🤣
"The secret ingredient in Secret Ingredient Soup. The secret ingredient is... nothing. To make something special you just have to believe it's special." :D
A bird said that, A BIRD.
@@rviiiiii A bird in a kids movie about a fat panda learning kung fu.
this coment reminded me of a Garfield episode when they ate THE MOST SPECIAL LASAGNNA EVER and was a fight over the recipe from a big corporate, and once the recipe vas sold, it actually sucked because the cook tasted the sause until it was "just right" and that just made the whole diference
@Blind Betty It's probably left over from the sanding process and minerals in the varnish used. I mean they used arsenic to thin glue.
I think you nailed it right there. Stradivarius sounds better because everyone thinks it should.
I remember reading that Antonio Stradivari actually made some of his instruments from wood salvaged from a Roman temple, meaning it was already a thousand years old.
Going around the countryside, picking old wood from old buildings is what helps those violins last.
Old wood is as warped as it's going to get.
A lot of the wood was recovered from the water in Croatia. So much time in the water, absorbing who knows what.
@@scottlowell493 Where in the world did you get this Croatian wood under water story? Water-logged wood is the worst for any wood construction, never mind a fine musical instrument.
@@marcodeim. I thought that was Moses floating down the Tiber... Dang it!, coulda had a strad...
@@johnwattdotcait absolutely is not tbe worst. Some of the best acoustic instrument are made from swamp, lake and other waterlogged trees.
ON THE ONE HAND, Stradivari is a legend who deserves all the respect in the world for absolutely mastering the craft of violin-making like no one else in history, despite alot of really phenomenal competition. HOWEVER, experts truly cannot tell the difference between Strads and modern high end violins anymore. IN FACT, most professional violinists actually prefer modern ones in double blind studies. STILL, despite all of our advancements in technology, the fact that better violins only started being produced this century means that Stradivari was unrivaled for over 250 years, including all of the industrial revolution. Now that is one absolutely incredible accomplishment
... that's simply not true but okay.
@@notaspeck6104where is your source
As a violin maker, good job. Covering old violins for a general audience is tricky to do but this gave a good idea of the reality of these instruments.
I know right? I'm also a luthier and musician and this is something I might actually know, to test if Hank gets it right. And he does! Haha
Also, I have something to add. I think it's not feeling important, it's more like the ones that are allowed to play those violins are already accomplished musicians that will make a special effort to have a good relationship with it. I've heard frank peter zimmermann saying that strads aren't easy to play compared to modern instruments, he had to train to get the feel of it. Maybe if he is given a lesser instrument he wouldn't take the effort to produce the most perfect sound with it.
I'm also a baby maker
@@Zal1810 I’ve heard this as well, it’s certainly interesting to think about why they might be trickier to play. 300 years of aging and near constant playing, as well as countless repairs, has definitely made them very unique from modern instruments in a lot of ways. I’ve held a few strads and listened to quite a few old Italian instruments, and more than anything, they’re just such a cool piece of history. Yes, they sound amazing when in good hands, but at least from my perspective, they’re more important as direct links to the masters who paved the way for us modern makers.
hey, maybe one day, 400 years from now, _your_ violins will be special, unique, and sought after. thats a cool thought. I hope that is true for you
I've seen many tests and even trained ears are not able to tell them apart from another decent quality violin. It comes from the player.
I do appreciate that these violins have held up for over 400 years and are still playable and enjoyed by millions.
Make no mistake, the reason they're still playable is thanks to the dedicated work of extremely talented luthiers across the centuries.
@@syntaxlost9239 Absolutely
you've just answered the question posed in the caption. Anything as fragile as a violin that can survive 400 years must sound great.
@@syntaxlost9239 Lex Luthiers?
@@n9brb means Lex Luthor's gang
Strad is in heaven watching someone with a 10 million dollar violin and saying "bro I made that in a weekend when I was drunk, it's worth like 200 bucks, tops."
Often theese people lived a very avarge life, and only known by a handful of people for being decent at something. But they made a f*ck ton of piece of something or just had a family that after their death preserved their crap in a dark room instead of throwing it out.
but history have a tendency of overrepresenting the importance of people by the virtue of still having some surviving stuff from their life.
And most of them only enjoy celebrity demigod legend status long after their death.
I'd say the weakest among the strads might realistically have been like 50k violins. They are high quality in sound, and I listened to some sound comparisons where I found a few modern 100k violins sounding slightly more preferable. That said, most strads are well aged and cared for, which a brand new violin just can't have. And of course their uniqueness... gives them that 900% cost adjustment.
I heard one once played by Josh Bell (that Josh Bell) in his apt which was designed for incredible acoustics. He played the Four Seasons with an (obviously world class) pianist. I worked for a catering company and they gave me the gig bc they liked me. I got paid to be in that room and the audience paid 10k (Swatch event) it was so beautiful I cried. It opened up a portal in my life to allow in beauty. One the best moments of my entire life. #stradlyfe
I’m so happy that you had that experience. A portal is a good way to explain it. I have love classical music all my life, and I truly is a portal into beauty.
@@katrinat.3032 portal homies! 🌪️🌫️
@@katrinat.3032 Ahh that's the fallacy most people have about classical music, that it's about beauty and making the world a better place. No it isn't and doesn't.
Lesson learnt: Double blinded tests are the way to go.
It's sad that to this day the scientific community is still learning this lesson.
Should have done a double deaf test instead.
Totally agree with you. It should be applied more often to hi-end goods including wine, speakers, other instruments, etc.
@@heinzerbrew medical community even worse
@@undr_guv_surv thats just wrong the medical community uses double blind studys everywhere in fact you cant even get most medications and procedures approved without it
You can't make a new strad because by definition a strad is made by Stradivari, and he's dead.
Didn't stop Strahd von Zarovich.
@@o76923 it stopped you tho
Easy solution: We need to raise stradivarius from the dead. I'll get my shovel...
Um.... Technically u can, just change name to stradivari, simple lol
@@o76923 yours is an underappreciated comment.
I think it's fair to say your rolled a Nat 20 with that one.
Part of the reason Strads are considered exceptional is because they project extremely well. Earlier fiddles like those of Maggini (1600 to 1630) were built during a time when orchestras were much smaller so their ability to project wasn't as critical as it was in Stradavarious' time. Earlier violins tended to be quieter and usually had earthier, more open and perhaps more somber tones. Those built roughly one hundred years later in the Cremona school were very balanced, had better volume and were also brighter with more clarity in their highs which made them better suited for use in the larger orchestras of that time. Personally, I prefir the earlier instruments even though they ordinarily aren't powerhouses because of the sort of music I play so my assertion is that one becomes used to the qualities of whatever he plays and that becomes the preference if his instrument preforms adiquitly for the music being played. Perhaps Strads are a better choice for the orchestral musician because of their tonal character but it could be argued that the clasical player has developed the preferance for the Strad and over time, because the non playing public views the musician who plays in the string section as a legitimate authority on the subject the Stradivari is considered best because a respected player says they're the best. I'm not sure that's actually true. There are many very fine violins built by masterful makers and I believe that what makes one better than another is the preference of the person playing it.
I think when considering Strads the better question is what makes them cut across eighty other instruments to be heard above the rest when others are not. That may be what gave rise to the notion that Antonio Stradavari's violins were the best that were built in his time and are still considered the best by many today.
That explains why the one I have which was probably made by possibly an apprentice luthier was so defined when I played in orchestra
Your explanation is better than the video! Thank you.
@@user-fg4fr2bz5y Thank you! I'm not an authority on Strads. I worked as a luthier in a shop in Manhattan years ago and came in contact with violins considered some of the very best in the world and some of the ordinary type, as well. I was also exposed to the opinions of some of the best players, too. They were very kind to have given me a lot of their insights, which I considered very valuable. Personally, those older fiddles are more appealing to me because I play "Old Time" (the predecessor of modern bluegrass) and Irish dance tunes and the earlier instruments are better suited for that as I see it. It's nice that there's a violin out there to suit every taste.
When you work in a shop at the corner of 57th and 7th Ave. directly across the street from the doors of the recital hall at Carnegie Hall it's a happy coincidence if your goal is to learn about wonderful fiddles! I appreciate your comment. I have to say, it was very flattering. Take care!
Fascinating insights, thanks!
@@David-pd8libut the Stradivari were baroque violins, with a completely different bridge and board. They were also played with gut strings. Basically, what we hear nowadays has absolutely nothing to do with how the instruments sounded back then. To me, the strad cult is a scam.
But I'd love to hear them in their original setup.
Farther down in the comments is the mention of a PBS program that duplicated a Strad. The show was Nova: “What is Music” and might still be up on CZcams. It featured Dr Joseph Najovari of Texas A&M who analyzed spruce shavings obtained from Strad restorers, and also the chemistry of the varnished used. He was able to come very close to duplicating a Strad. It is definitely worth a watch if still available for viewing.
As a professional classical musician - the highest level of modern instruments are often just as good or in some cases better. Just different and the status of old instruments has a big draw
Fender guitar released a few super authentic replicas of Van Halen's "Frankenstrat" complete with rusty parts and screws, uncorrect wiring, a pickup that is not even connected and overall just looks like someone threw the guitar down a few flight of stairs. It looks like crap and it's SUPER expensive, you can easily get a better guitar out there but because it's Van Halen's...
@@felphero: When Fender started manufacturing "road-worn" guitars they lost all credibility.
Jesse Fischer: Did you ever play with the Ottawa Symphony?
I love modern equipment's ability to create amazing works of art that was once originally limited to the hands of a few.
As a movie-maker...guy, I've encountered a lot of resistance from filmmakers who used proper film stock for their films versus some newcomer like me who used (gasp) VIDEO. This was of course back in the early 2000's. A lot of the arguments against video really boiled down to "anyone can make a world-class-looking movie, and that's awful". Like, the idea of someone having a few-of-a-kind skill, like traditional filmmaking or a classical musician being invited to play on a Stradivarius violin, certainly has a mythical quality to it. But much about modern videography alleges to take that special feeling out of being a filmmaker who had to do all the proper compositing and developing, f-stops, etc., especially when some kid with an iPhone can make something that looks just as cinematic. And when something so beautiful can be reproduced so easily, it sucks some of the mysticism out of it.
I get why they feel that way... but that said, I don't buy any of it. I won't deny that the specific history of a particular skill has its draw, but to me that mysticism involved in a skill comes not from the rarity of the skill involved to do it right, but the beauty of the talent behind what is produced. And I say this as being nearly 40 years old, but if any old folk feels their proud status of having a few-of-a-kind skill is threatened by a younger lot who have access to newer equipment that can reproduce a similar/superior quality of work relative to the older folk's skill... oh well.
@@nickfifteen: Your "oh well" covers a lot of difference between humanity and technology. People caught up with todays' tech might forget it all began with "clip art", what was loaded in your computer, call it suggested artwork if you will. When the technology becomes the act of creating it's not human hands doing it any more. I am 70. I decry the pornography, drugs, violence and weapons, the plot of most Hollywood productions now, with comic books, is because tech-heads don't have the artistic and poetic creativity of human artists, both hands and hearts working together. Mankind needs to de-industrialize and re-humanize for the refreshing of our good earth.
During the Twoset video with Yu-Chien, basically, that video of 3 violinists blind-testing violins (Strad vs non-Strad), proves one thing: If you practice 40 hours a day, you can make a $1000 violin sound like a Strad; but if you are not LingLing, a Strad in your hands will sound just like a $1000 violin.
It's less about the violin, more about the violinist and how many hours your practice.
and if you practice the violin for 40 hours a day, you don't have time for any other education, so your maths skills suffer badly - along with basic common knowledge skills, such as how many hours in a day :P
@@mehere8038 I can’t tell if you’re not aware of the LingLing 40 hours meme or if I’m currently wooshing myself
@@mehere8038 Ever consider that maybe the Violinist is practicing on another planet?
@@meisteremm very true he could've been practicing on Venus where a solar day is ~115 earth days which means he was actually being quite lazy only practicing 40 hours each day 🤔
My mother was a music professor and a violinist. One of her stories from the early 20th century was about a well practiced violinist with a high reputation. The story goes that his Strad was getting more column-inches than his playing. In a fit of jealousy, he arrive in a town known for having a demanding audience. He went incognito to the local department store and purchased a cheap, beginner violin. To start his evening performance, he flashed the cheap violin for all to admire based on the advance publicity that a Strad was coming to town. He performed his first three pieces to thunderous applause. At the end of the third piece, he crashed the violin onto his knee, breaking it in half. (add audience sound effects) After chastising the audience for being seduced by the Strad name, he finished the concert on his Strad because he, himself, preferred the FEEL of the Strad, something the audience could not experience. I suppose most of you have heard this story a thousand times, so I will not delay you with my mother’s story of Fritz Kreisler vs. Jasha Heifetz.
The magic of a Strad is like handing a guitarist the Strat used by Hendrix when he played the National Anthem at Woodstock. Just knowing you're touching not just a piece of history, but a piece held by some of history's greatest musicians makes the holder aspire to show they're worthy to continue that generational connective line.
Why are you comparing a real musical instrument with a electric?
@@rooooooby wait until you find out about electric violins...
I think its down to roughly 3 factors that make the strads so special:
Age: Obviously lasting so long builds a formidable reputation, leading to people believing there is something superior to the object.
Quality: These strads inherent qualities were/are so good they are already extremely exceptional violins. Doing much of the leg work.
Main users of Strads: If all the strads are only played by those who many would call the best violinists. Than the reputation is impart, deeply associated with the best of the best who will only generate more and more good PR for the strads.
And when you combine all three, they are deeply connected to one another. The shear quality and craftsmanship garnered the respect and care of the best violinists, and said quality allowed the strads to last for centuries in surprisingly good order. Which their longevity due to craftsmanship has gained them a undeniable and strong reputation throughout many many generations of violinists and music lovers. Which than caused these instruments almost exclusively played and used by the finest violinists.
Which than further feeds into their awe inspiring reputation, and causing a eternal cycle of "Excellent quality and craftsmanship garners the best players to play it, who feed into its reputation as a unmatchable instrument for the best of the best. Which than causes only the best of the best to play strads. If Strads had been played by lesser players throughout the centuries, I doubt it would be as well known as it is today. But it wouldn't of lasted till today if it wasn't so well made and preserved by those who have the money and connections to do so. Which is pretty amazing.
This reminds me of the psychology of the Doom video game. They had a gun that passed from version to version with the same damage specs. But all of a sudden, users responded that the new gun wasn't as good as the old one and statistics showed that it did not perform as well. Turns out the sound effect changed from a low thunk to something higher pitched. That was the only change.
Wasn’t that the MP40 vs. Thompson in Wolfenstein?
This is why I couldn't work in any user related industry. I would've increased the damage of the gun the next game, but have it make pew pew sounds when shooting instead of an actual gun shot, just to see people lose their minds
@@tave6202 I mean... I feel like this exactly why you SHOULD work in the industry 🤣🤣
@@tave6202 this sounds more like a confession than you saying you don't work in that field.
I believe the was a similar occurrence in League of Legends. It was quite some time ago, but the patch notes mentioned nerfs to Vladimir. Desire the fact that the nerfs weren't implemented (so literally nothing changed), his winrate dropped and he got a bad wrap.
As someone immersed in the audiophile world, I can say this placebo effect is stronger than most people think.
Placebo was the word I expected to arrive somewhere in the comments and you nailed it!
I feel that the sum effect of a bunch of small upgrades might be audible even if they aren't individually, but never scrimp on your source components just to get something like fancier cables. Spend your money where it does the most good.
@@bryede I remember an interview with a company that did (IIRC) fancy speakers some years ago, in which their equipment was lauded as fantastic, and everyone wanted to know their whole set up. They revealed for cables they'd just used some bog standard shielded power cable from a hardware store, that you would use for an outdoor lawn mower. Their point being, audiophile gear is usually all marketing, after you get beyond "just not cheapest made stuff from aliexpress".
Agree
Or is it true that only a very few people have a good enough ear to distinguish good from great.
I don’t for sure .
Somebody actually did make a violin that was "indistinguishable" from the original Cremona Stradiveri violins. His name was Georg Gemunder. You can read his stonishing story in his book, Georg Gemunder's Experience in Violin Making. There is a good version on Kindle. It is an amazing read - remarkably insightful.
Antonio Stella Bottom Tile from Craig Mona is my favourite guitarist of all time.
I heard a side by side demonstration of a Strad next to a couple of other violins, not only did it sound significantly better, it was quite a bid louder. Great post, in depth, you ace'd it. Thank you for your great information.
@@user-wz2qe2pv6r I'm an accomplished musician, have an RME Fireface UFX an interface used by a majority of top end recording studios across the country. My band took top place among 50 other bands in a contest, only standing ovation of the evening, and I am telling you that there was a marked difference between the Strad and the other violin. There was no indication that they were playing it harder. Oh well. To each his own. Just an observation.
As a guitarist, I can say the same attitudes about “older=better” are generally the same, but again in blindfold tests players rarely tell the difference, however you do play different once you know something is ‘vintage’. And they’ve only been popular less than a century! The big brands go to great lengths to make new models exactly like they did in the 50s/60s
It's pretty similar to how the whole "tube amps are superior" thing goes, where sort of recently it did hit a point with the awesome profiling amps by brands like Kemper that have made their electronically generated emulation of the sound of tube amps basically indistinguishable from the real thing. I can almost guarantee you that a vintage instrument connoisseur would even probably slip up in telling one from the other, yet beforehand would likely tell you something along the lines of "computers can't match the real deal."
Really the benefit of a good vintage guitar is not the sound, it's the playability. But these days, the cheapest guitars (like Squiers) are so much better than they've ever been before. These days we know how to make very cheap and very consistently great guitars, usually it involves computers and machines these days whereas back in the day it was all handmade, which meant inconsistent. If you can afford a good vintage guitar then it might be a great deal. But there were way more bad guitars around back then too. Buying something like a vintage Gibson is a bad idea. They've always been terribly inconsistent with quality. You're far better off buying a knock off Les Paul today by a company that's not Gibson, than buying a vintage Gibson, or even a modern Gibson. It'll be better than the vast majority of vintage ones. But, those few vintage guitars that were genuinely well made, are absolutely fantastic to play. They feel like butter. So smooth. Cos they've had decades of being broken in, played in. But the cost will be like £30,000 so it's a bit pointless unless you're super rich.
And no, they don't sound better really. Modern pickups are also a lot more consistently made. Not even actual guitar players can tell the difference between vintage pickups and new ones in blind tests. Let alone mere music fans. And that's with the guitar on its own, let alone when it's in the mix with the drums and bass etc. It really makes no difference. Don't spend money on pointless vintage pickups to put in a modern guitar. Nobody will even be able to tell.
@@duffman18 yep, exactly. I think part of the reason this got so ridiculous is people looking up to bands of that era and believing only that certain rig can reproduce those sounds. The price on vintage guitars has absolutely skyrocketed in the last few years, it's honestly a bit gross. They've become more of a collectible status symbol than anyone actually going after them for their supposed sound
@@adio222 well, there is something to tubes. And yes, modeling has gotten significantly better, and for most it's pretty indistinguishable. But there are exceptions. Amps with a very dynamic and uncompressed power amp section sound quite different from their modeled counterparts, even when run through the same cabinet with the same microphone in the same place.
And some of us don’t hear well enough to know when our own instrument is out of tune. No I’m not making it up. If you have hearing deficits you simply don’t hear what a lot of other people are excited about. I’ve been trying to learn guitar post stopping flute…some things I just don’t hear
I hope that after the experiment was over the musicians were told that they had played a Stradivarius. The sound quality "magic" might not be true, but I bet those musicians would have been excited to find out that they had played on an ancient instrument shared by some of the best violin players across centuries.
That actually makes me wonder what would happen if you ran a version of this experiment with only modern violins but told some of the performers they were using strads. Then have the audiences make judgements. I wonder if the violinists that thought they were playing strads would in any way play with a small but possibly noticeable extra bit of care and reverence that might lead to a detectable increase in audience satisfaction
I'd guess they would have been told what about the study is, in order to simply attract and engage people in. I may be wrong, but I think double blind studies truly are double blind, for player and audience, like here, but I think all of them might've been told that there were different types of violins, and that was the point.
@@BD-yl5mh If memory serves, Yo-Yo Ma at one point said that you had to play Strads differently or something, so that may have been a factor.
@@BD-yl5mh If you play on something that cost milions off dollars yes put extra bit off care probably
- If you have the ear for it a Strad jumps out from all other sounds. It has a greater depth and breadth that is noticeable even on radio speakers. Those who preferred the modern units were used to that sound. Not everyone has the ear for it.
I've played violin since 5th grade orchestra. Never played a Strad. However, I've played many different makes and models and could easily tell the difference between ones that had greater clarity, acoustic qualities and especially reverberation. I find it difficult to imagine that an experienced violin player would not know the difference between a Stratovarius and a modern violin. But maybe that's just because I've never played one.
Not a violinist, but if violin manufacturers have chased the sound of Strads because they're the best, and as some have said, Strads have wildly deferring sound qualities due to differences in manufacture, upkeep, and in some cases, repairs, then it stands to reason that it shouldn't be all that difficult to pick a pair of modern vs strad to compare that sound very similar.
And you don't know the difference between a Stradivarius and Stratovarius.
It's all in the name. It's an amazingly good instrument to begin with, but the name "Stradivarius" or "Guarneri" is what inspire awe and majesty. Just like a Rembrandt. It may be a good Dutch painting, but knowing that Rembrandt's brush had once touched it, the price and admiration just suddenly skyrocketed.
When the Devil went down to Georgia, he had a fiddle made of gold because he couldn't afford a Strad.
For all the rap gold gets for being valuable, it's only about $50 per gram once put into sensible units. Doesn't really sound like that much, does it?
@@Roxor128 That's a lot. Damn gold is expensive
Be wary of people that believe in the devil
Fry: Wouldn’t a solid gold fiddle weigh a ton and sound crummy?
Robot Devil: Yes, but it’s mostly for show
An average violin weighs 500 grams, the price of gold today is 58.28 a gram.
So a gold violin costs just over 29k.
Slightly cheaper than a Strad.
"The shared experience of music, history, and science." This sentence sings to me.
Gil Shaham has entered the chat...
I dunno, feels like science is butting in on the purview of the arts there.
@@SaltpeterTaffy - Think of it this way. There’s no science in the making of a violin? I think science is being complimentary here.
@@SaltpeterTaffy In my eyes, any pursuit of perfection is the application of scientific thinking to a creative pursuit. Science is an invaluable tool for distilling what makes a master, a master.
@@Art-nj9jq Complementary to music and history? Science may run parallel to music in this case, but Hank called it a shared experience, connoting an inextricable intersection I don't perceive to exist.
When I was in the 7th grade about 1961 the violinist Romanov came to our school and played and then that evening I attended his concert. My parents knew of him from radio performances. And yes he was very good.
At the local wine shop, there's a tiny room with fantastic aged wines from good vintages. In the rest of the shop, finding a fantastic bottle of wine is quite a challenge. I'd say 99% range from just okay to very good. About 1% are fantastic. If you're going to save a few bottles for a few decades it takes some work to keep them under the right conditions as well as carefully selecting vintages that will age well. Probably worth it for a fraction of the fantastic wines in the 1%. Fast forward 20-30 years and you have a fine selection of the best wines aged to perfection. Good enough to find themselves in that tiny room.
Think of Stradivarius violins as one of the best of the wines in that tiny room. No one bothered to keep the thousands of lesser violins in such good condition for the last 300 years. It's not that difficult to find a fantastic violin if you're looking at only Strads, Guarneris, and Amatis.
I've had the privilege of hearing a Strad played in person, and I can't say it sounded any different than a modern, well made violin. It was beautiful, though.
Modern, well made violins tend to sound beautiful, even more so if played by a world class violinist. If you're good enough at violin to be allowed to touch a Strad, chances are it's going to sound beautiful when you play it.
That’s because modern, well made violins are just as good. It’s not that Strads aren’t amazing instruments, it’s that they’re being equalled by modern instruments.
I can tell immediately when a top violinist uses a modern instrument.
human error
It’s very simple to tell the difference.
I've heard that the chemicals found in Strads were possibly used to preserve and protect the wood, the way that lumber is still treated with arsenic. Strads are famous for being famous, like the Mona Lisa.
Quick point of information: they don't use the arsenic any more. Too many people got sick or died from burning or working with the treated wood.
Yeah, as a carpenter, when he listed the chemicals the first thing I thought was "That sounds a little like pressure-treated lumber to me"
Famous for being famous. Like the Kardashians.
Well, Mona Lisa isnt "just" famous, it is famous for a reason. Dunno about Strads tho
@@JackF99 You beat me to the Kardashian reply -- curse you!
i'm doing a long school assignment and you're the first voice i've heard that didn't make my ears hurt. nice.
Thank you for delving into the science. I am in my sixties and from the time I was a very small child I was told that the Stradivarius file in was unmatched and could not be reproduced. It was simply, due to whatever magic from whence it was made, the instrument of all instruments. You have demystified and yet helped explain the mysterious beauty of these most precious of all violins
I find it hilarious that strads and fine wines have similar characteristics; even the 'experts' can't tell it's something special until someone tells you it is.
I mean a honda & a mclaren can’t compare so irrelevant video imo
@@pacodeluciiaa cars has objective things that can be measured to be better; speed, acceleration, power weight ratio, brakes, etc. Wines and violins is way more subjective. You can easily compare 2 different well made cars for its positives and negatives. Not with 2 different well made violins or wines that comes down to only preference and psychology.
A wine expert can pick out from 100 a single glass described only in words like 'honey, oak, blackberries, burnt pencils', by another expert. A curiously accurate analogous language
@@tim40gabby25 idk about that but wasnt there a study that dyed white wines red and when the "expert" wine tasters tasted them with the notion they were reds from a particular part of europe they described them with the expected notes of wines from that region.
@@christiandavegutierrez475 There are many such experiments and they always end up with the same conclusion. Whine snobs are clueless. Same kinda experiment has been done with violine players who listened to violins, to see if they could spot the Stradivari. Same result.
Also in 2018 extreme wind destroyed a great portion of the forest that source the wood for modern Cremona violins, so we could have a shortage of modern "Stradivari style" violins until the forest regrow.
Most of the precious downed trees are currently been harvested but is a race against time to get some useful material from this disaster.
You and this video all sound like a conspiracy to keep prices high from big violin also known as chelo
@@stickypaddle6432 you made me laugh louder than it should have
@@stickypaddle6432 is not a big violin cospiracy. It's a conspiracy from slightly bigger violin also known as viola
You can't grow new old growth wood. The planet is not what it used to be.
@@masterpython Well you can't grow new "old-growth" wood, because it wouldn't be "old-growth" by definition. However with enough time and proper soil, you easily can replicate the texture of wood found in an old-growth forest.
One thing to take into account is, originally the Stradivarous violins were set up for the baroque style of music, so they had a different neck angle & other differences. The surviving ones were all converted in the late 1700's & early 1800's to modern style violins, after baroque went out of style, so none of them have their original setup. They're "resto-mods"!
I saw one that was taken apart for repair. It was so full of large patches on the inside the guy doing the repair asked. What is left of his work? If they sound so great you must praise the years of repair people.
Thank you for a great explanation video!
It has been clearly demonstrated that even world class music experts can't hear any difference between "Strads" and well made modern violins in blind comparisons.
Where has this been demonstrated? I am very curious
@Literal-Littoral because of a thing called "elitism"
source: just trust me bro
@@timxu6631 I mean, they literally said in the video this comment is under how neither the professionals playing nor the audience could hear a difference.
In my opinion that is not as relevant as a comparison with instruments of the same age, there might have been a great difference then, what is considered basic now was for the rich then, like having most of the child live to adulthood.
First 1 want to say: 400+ years of musicians playing on these instruments and then having them still be in a condition to be played today can't be taken for granted.
The musician playing the instrument is important too because a good musician knows how to get the best out of their instrument.
I played the viola for 7 years.
Lessons and classes on music theory...
I loved it and planned to play professionally.
Then in 10th grade, while standing on a table, I fell and broke 3 of the fingers on my left hand.
The guy I was working with vomited when he saw the directions my fingers were in - if you want an idea of how badly they were broken.
I even had one of them rebroken in the hopes that it would heal better.
I kept playing after they healed until I got out of high-school but never got back the range of motion needed to play professionally.
Not that you need to "be" in the business to know about those fabulous violins.
They were the dream.
Thanks for adding to my dream.
I felt this, deeply. I was a skilled trumpet player for 9 years; seriously considering a University programme in music and performance. Then a freak ice-fishing accident ended up with a piece of bar-steel puncturing my upper lip, cutting the muscles in my embouchure leaving me with a Mercedes symbol scar and the inability to hold my embouchure for longer than 5 minutes without significant pain. Was just about to purchase a Bach Silver Trumpet that spring... I still love all music, and still dabble playing other instruments, but when I hear a well-played trumpet, or see one at a music store... the "road not taken" still gives me pangs of loss and regret.
Excelente explicación gracias
There are technically phenomenal violins being made that are comparable. However nothing can defeat the lore of a Strad. Additionally, those that play a strad professionally. i.e. the greatest violinists on earth, can render music that they are playing on one superbly. Witnessing these performances is a memorable experience. Many years ago I attended a rehearsal of the New York Philharmonic. Isaac Stern was the solo violinist. It was a memorable experience.
I remember, many years ago, talking about this with a friend who owned a music store. He said that whatever Strad treated the wood with caused the 'stoma' - little holes in the wood that let air in so the tree can breathe - to stay open; normally they close up as the wood dries. And that it was all those little open stoma in the wood that give Strad violins their unusual resonance and tonal character. I was hoping this video would mention that, and whether it was still thought to be true. Interesting video, regardless.
I read somewhere or another that under a microscope, the cells in the wood are a bit enlarged by the brining process the maker used. The reason nobody can replicate it is thus far may be that nobody cares to take the amount of time required to prepare the stock for work. It may also be that comparable stock is just not available any more. -Veteran '66-68
@@rogeranderson8763 I once heard the wood he used was also water logged before manufacture because it was floated in a river in transit.
I also heard the varnish Stradivari used had gem dust. People think he got the dust from jewelers who gave him leftover scraps from gem cutting. Yeah apparently he may have just used it for added sparkle, but some think it might have a minor effect on the sound too. Too minor to be audible? maybe.....
@@marhawkman303 indeed, that is what I heard too about the floating. It was common practice that trees would be floated down rivers, as well as stored in them for a time. The gem dust is new to me, but makes a lot of sense. It would still differentiate the Strad from others as other makers would also have access to the same timber. A combination of those factors, as well as the climate at the time and the passage of time would all contribute to set them apart from anything made today.
Old furniture from Europe often has small worm holes in it. We don't have that happening here in the US, unless the object is imported.
@@howardhiggins9641 The stoma are microscopic.
The moral here is remember first principles; Your assumptions must hold up to scrutiny!
I have no doubt that the name Stradivarius will still be legendary long after the time every last one of them have become rotted and unuseable. Humans are like that. We value stories over objective truths.
Then I don't wanna be called "human".
@@lake5044 that's why I'm a Lich King
@@arthas640 Make it Lich President, otherwise we're definitely going to invade Northrend for the oil.
Stories make for v good copy and entertainment. When real life tells a fantastic story without being embellished either by the story or by the everyday experiences people add to it, you have the best of both worlds!
@@arthas640
Do you lichen that to something? 😉
Thank you so much. I was really wanting to know why the strads are so valuable and quality. You told me everything I could have wanted to know. So interesting about the slow growth little ice age spruce trees.
Almost all the Strads that have come down to us went through the hands of J. B. Vulliame in Paris. He applied a well - know trick used to brighten up old instruments -- he shaved the Tail Blocks DOWN !! Then when he re - glued the tops, they got STRETCHED ... Get It ? like a Drum head ... Of course, the Flat arching was perfect for this treatment. i've done it myself to a cheap Chinese instrument and it made a HUGE improvement.
The conclusion of the blind test is that we’re in another golden age of violin making.
That actually makes some sense, given modern manufacturing methods? The real thing would be to compare one with its contemporaries
@@runeanonymous9760 I wonder if there's any documents from that time describing the difference. If strads were really that superior to other contemporary violins I'm sure some musicians would've written about that
@@runeanonymous9760 It's not so much that the manufacturing methods are "modern" nowadays (although modern tools like bandsaws--and in some cases even chainsaws if you can believe it--increase the efficiency and speed of early steps). Modern violin makers still use the same glues, tools, and most of the time even the same clamps as they did in the 17th century. The reason we are in another "golden age" is because a lot of that knowledge had been lost for centuries (mostly thanks to plagues wiping out violin making towns and various other economic shifts in the violin making regions of the time) and we are just now, through research and tons of practice, re-learning everything that was mostly forgotten.
(P.S. I'm a trained violin maker)
We really are. A lot of knowledge and craftsmanship in luthiery diminished in the years after Strad's death as the center of violin production moved from northern Italy to Germany where the process was broken up and made super efficient--at the expense of quality. This helped to popularize the instrument by lowering the cost, hence the vast majority of violins found in American attics and barns and antique shops were made in Germany and are of middling quality. It's just in the last few decades that makers in the US especially have ramped up our techniques and returned to historically accurate practices that have created instruments that, arguably, rival those made by Strad and Guarneri and the Amati family.
Underrated comment.
Considering how few violin survive from the age of Stratovarius... ie: competitors violins.
Maybe the real secret of Stradivarius is that whatever his chemical treatment was helped his violins to last longer. So the Mystique is really by virtue of being the best known violin maker of some of the oldest violins left in the world...
I mean, another reason that helped Stradivari violins lasting longer is that they were more famous and expensive than most violins, so people valued them more, making a larger amount of strads survive till today
Pysch definitely has a part to play. I am a drummer. Even though i feel like due to the practice and honing of my skill, I do well with what is out in front of me to play. When you change to better quality wood (maple cherry mahogany etc) you get a better quality sound. But there are more affordable sets that sound just as good as a 10000 dollar set. But the prestige and esthetic of that custom work of art really dials in your focus and your head tells you by lookin at it that it sounds better because it looks better or has more pedigree.
thanks for the video I just learned something new even tho I have been playing a violin for a while
According to the History Channel, everyone's grandma has a Strad sitting in the attic.
Oh yah, after the name got famous, there were metric **bleep**-tons of imitators. Many of which are now antiques themselves. 🙂
Hell, I got half a dozen, in assorted colors!
@@fubartotale3389: Grandmas, Stradivari, or both?
I'll give you $5 and this chewed piece of gum. I'm gonna have to do all the work and take all the risk.
History Channel told me the Little Ice Age was responsible for the violins.
We can absolutely duplicate the sonic characteristics of a Strad, but it still wouldn't be a Strad. We can similarly make an exact replica of, say, the Sistine Chapel, but it wouldn't be the Sistine Chapel. The history and mystique obviously can't be duplicated. And we have, at this point, defined "perfect sounding violin" as "sounds like a Stradivarius" so it becomes a tautology.
I was gonna refute this, then I remembered that I listen to LPs over CDs and the arguments are literally the same lmao
There is still a very minuscule difference between the old original and the best ever digital copy of it.
True that it might not be possible to consciously discern that, but somehow maybe subconsciously it might be discernible somehow.
Perhaps double-blind tests could test if individuals with extremely fine musical hearing capabilities could sense any difference.
Then it should be possible to achieve to duplicate an exact copy of a Stradivari violin sound by electronic means, somehow.
I believe that technology of our current time (2021-22) would be capable to do so.
If not, then work on the difference between accuracy of human physical perception means and technological recording means.
If there are still any differences, then refine the technoloical recording instruments further.
How difficult can it get?
Qunantum level?
Well then, even if, it would be a matter of a few years or decades, at the most, wouldn't it?
So, rather work to extend your lifetime, so then you find more answers in your lifetime.
I doubt that we could duplicate the Sixtine Chapelle, not with all those idiots and lazy people breathing around.
So... what you're saying is that Strads are NFTs XD
This becomes a Ship of Theseus type paradox if you start to argue the point that even if you would recreate the exact characteristics, it would not be the same thing.
Besides the wood aging, I've read there is playing in or being played that has a positive effect on the wood !
One amazing thing is that there are 650 still extant!
I am also sure I read that Yo Yo Ma's cello is a Strad !
The ability to discern extremely fine distinctions is something people have in varying degrees. It's partly physiological and partly training. I know someone with extremely acute color sensitivity. This person can (for example) not only match fabrics dyed from the same dye vs other dye lots, they can match fabrics within a specific dye lot. I've tested this individual's color matching ability using the finest distinctions possible with 24-bit color, at it is indeed pretty exceptional. In tests, no one else I've found (including professional artists), can match it.
The same goes for taste, hearing, and touch. So unless an extremely high standard set and bench-marked, these blind test are meaningless. If perhaps only one person in 1,000 can reliably tell a Strad from another violin, or 1 in 10,000, or 1 in 10 million, it doesn't mean the difference is not there. It simply means that only that person can discern it.
As for the psychological effect, this is also can also be misunderstood. Our brains can be trained to recognize fine distinctions, but they don't always. It takes effort and motivation -- the brain needs to be "primed" to do the work, to focus and concentrate, to detect these fine distinctions. Otherwise, they'll be missed. Telling a person "you're playing/listening to" a Strad could be just such a clue.
Finally, the whole "these 2 things are exactly the same" -- no. No 2 things are exactly the same. There are always differences. They exist at gradations varying from course, to extremely fine, down to the molecular and to atomic level. What is the limit of discernment? Under the proper conditions, the naked human eye (some exceptional human eyes, that is) can detect as few as 2 photons -- possibly even one. It's quite remarkable -- and not easy to achieve. So whether it's violins or cigarettes, the powers of human perception often exceed the ability of people setting up tests to determine the degree of similarity between the things being tested, and the testing method can be based on unfounded assumptions. All of this must be considered before concluding two things are "the same" or not.
For the record, I have a tin ear. I couldn't tell a Strad from a bust chainsaw. (Well, maybe I could? Barely.) But that doesn't mean no one else can.
"it doesn't mean the difference is not there. It simply means that only that person can discern it. "
Their brain could be lying to them, they could be lying to you, or they could just be an idiot or egotistical. If someone has better than normal hearing, that's something we can definitely measure.
"Telling a person "you're playing/listening to" a Strad could be just such a clue. "
That's not how psychology works, telling someone they are listening to a strad doesn't suddenly check all the boxes for maximum perceptual acuity. What it does do is enforce any mental biases and ruin any potential of impartial judgement.
"the powers of human perception often exceed the ability of people setting up tests to determine the degree of similarity between the things being tested, and the testing method can be based on unfounded assumptions"
Surely you realize the researchers themselves do not have to have senses on the level of the participants to measure results. That's ridiculous. If you are measuring human reaction time for example, you are going to be using either a light based system or a high speed camera. Both systems of which will be vastly faster then even the most exceptional human and it won't even be remotely close. Average Human reaction time is 250ms whereas a high speed camera can measure time at the sub millisecond level. Ditto goes for the ability to perceive color. The scientists do not need to be able to actually perceive each individual gradient out of 16.7 million because a computer can precisely map that for them and can be checked against a reference. I do color work all the time myself and computer monitor calibration is vastly superior to hand calibration. I do not need to be able to see every shade to know it's correct, I receive data on precisely how correct it is vastly more accurate than any human could produce.
Great comment!
The fashion industry operates under the same premise.
Also the wine & spirits industry; double-blind taste tests, professionals with years of experience can't reliably tell cheap wine, whisky, beer, etc, from the expensive stuff just based on blind tasting.
Lesson being: Don't chase labels, just buy what you like and don't be afraid to experiment with cheap options.
The famous Palessi springs to mind ;p
The $16 million cost of a true Stradivari violin is more akin to the investment in a great work of art. I doubt it sounds 500 times better than a modern high quality violin.
Bottled waters too
Wines!
The placebo effect is strong.
@B Rian I think it's like how wine experts often rank wine based off the label. Like when they did a test and put OK wine in high ranking wine labels and put the amazing wine in the crappy bottles and they ranked the crap wine highly and the awesome wine ranked lower
Excellent video!
Very interesting. Thanks
I am not a musician but I thoroughly enjoyed this very interesting episode.
Hmmm interesting
K.
iNtErEsTiNg
I am a musician, and I thoroughly enjoyed this episode as well.
@@ZacksRockingLifestyle K.
Reminds me of the video of people ignoring the dude playing violin in the subway, having no idea he was playing a Strad and the next night his show at Carnegie Hall was sold out. "Nobody stopped to hear him, though he played so sweet and high."
Real Good for Free-Joni Mitchell
Aight listen, nobody goes to the subway for shites and giggles. They've got places to be. Why would they risk being late to listen to a violin, as sweet as it may sound? And why does no one take this into consideration before making these kinds of comments?!
Not only that, but what if anyone KNEW it was a Strad in the subway?
Now I'm not saying ALL subways are dangerous, but if a gang new there was a Strad to be had?
Sheesh. Didn't mean to rhyme!
Yeah I heard about that and wondered why they didn't pick a mall or some bar. A subway is a horrible option, most people go to a subway because they are heading to work, or to a meeting, or a date or something that requires them to get there fast. Even if they are not in a rush, there is a schedule to those places, they need to hurry or they will be forced to wait to get to where-ever they want to go, nobody likes being forced to wait.
Maybe if they still wanted to stick with a place people would walk by fairly fast, a sidewalk next to a coffee shop would have worked; but a subway? Na.
@@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa why did I read this in my head as the voice of qxir?
Hey Guy, I have studied Strads and Guarneri instruments. I even purchased CAT scans and diagrams with tiny details of these instruments, through The Library of Congress. Most of what you have said is accurate but I detect 3 mistakes or omissions. 1. mentor and teacher. Stradivari had been Guarneri's apprentice. They were neighbors and had houses and workshops a few hundred feet apart on adjacent streets. 2. Stradivari used several different woods because good wood was expensive. At first at least, he most often used wood from the ocean. He would search for sunken ships and broken boat oars, because the wood was very good and free. Later in life as he and his sons became more prosperous their primary wood of choice was Norway Spruce, for the front and back. Maple on the side. Ebony or rosewood on the neck. 3. The "special process" chemists talk about may have been as simple as getting salty driftwood from the ocean and nothing more. But, thank you for this excellent piece. BTW, experts seldom agree about anything, especially Strads. So take what I say with a glass of old saltwater.
Nice vid. I've read that Victor Schauberger believed the wood to be "special" because of it's transport methods via water flume. I like the psychology take, and would add that a preference toward modern instruments could also come from them being normal, or expected, and shying away from those that sound unfamiliar, or less so.
A friend of ours is a fabulous violinist who plays internationally. She was loaned a Strad. One day she had it at our house during Christmas season. She played beautifully. What made it so special was how our Border Collie howled the whole time. She laughed and smiled the whole time she was playing. Unforgettable!
And as she played the last note, Stradivari's ghost appeared from the sky wrapped in golden glow, then gave your violinist friend a high five and bailed.
@rogertorgersen9995 - That is a beautiful experience.
And if you crank your amp loud enough, you can see what frequency your house resonates at... mine is somewhere around B
I just get an angry phone call from my neighbors.
Much thanks for the laugh.
If you crank it up to full, the house crumbles and then it Bb
@@cheapskate8656 B-eutiful!
@@lunakoala5053 Thus you know the frequency your neighbors resonate at.
I"ve played the Cello for 32 years. My mother has played it for 50 years. Her Cello is 80,000 dollars and one of 8 ever made by its maker. Mine is a copy of some kind that is maybe worth 8 grand. I can tell that hers is higher grade instrument just by touching and playing it. I can tell how good a Cello is by just touching and playing it. I can tell how old it is by touching and playing it. That double blind study....it blows my mind that someone with any experience playing an instrument cannot tell that what they are touching is a better instrument UNLESS strads are not all that and a bag of chips afterall.
Guarneri had access to the same wood as Strad. so maybe that's what makes them both so good! (about equal value)
BINGO and all the other violin makers had access to the same wood. Which was not harvested by virgin beavers in the winter solstice .
As a violinist myself, I am so happy with this video. For a second there I thought you were falling for the same trap of just assuming the Strads must really be different but then you made my day right at the end :). You can always trust Sci show to be un-biased to the core!
I was freshly home from Navy deployment when a friend showed up with a heart-broken look in his face. It was 2AM and he NEVER acted like that. He was an Army Ranger, in for holiday leave as well, and so I invited him in. I knew something was wrong. He carried a familiar, ratty looking guitar case and laid it on the kitchen table. Without a word he opened it and I knew what I would see, but my heart sank when the damage was visible.
It was a guitar his father had made in 'Nam, the old man's second tour. He'd improvised his own jigs, bartered wherever he could for materials, and glue, and slowly fashioned probably the lightest guitar I'd ever held in my hands, before or since. Apparently, on his trip home, the airport staff had dropped the case, and the impact had sprung about a third of the seam between the top and side around from next to the pick-guard around past the tail-piece.
The old man had died while my friend was on his first tour of duty, and this was especially hard for him to deal with... I was the only person he knew who remotely resembled a lutier... SO I nodded and offered a brave smile... and still without a syllable, he retreated to the door and out. He was never one to let anyone see him cry.
It took a week, but very VERY carefully I steamed and prayed, inching my way around to fully expose the joint and extract the neck of the thing. I took off the tail-piece and simply enough, sacrificed the strings. They weren't important. They get used up, and for about 5 bucks, I could easily replace them. Every creek or murmur of the wood and my nerves were rattled, I'd cringe or wince so hard I could practically taste my own testicles! BUT finally, the top rose away and I was able to gaze at a delicacy of carving and shaping I could scarcely fathom... Next I examined every inch. There were a few stressed cracks, but some super-glue or urethane was dabbled into them deeply with X-Acto's and a biological probe, I'd found in a microscope kit years before... AND careful weighing down or clamping kept the thing from curling out of place while the glue finished curing... I scraped and scraped and then snapped off the end of a square file to scrub through grooves to get rid of the old glue, and finally cleaned it all before adding fresh, modern adhesive and then pressing the guitar carefully back together... I went ahead and rode down to a store in town for a new set of strings... and a set of AA batteries for my old digital tuner... A new piece of leather was needed for the neck, firming the fitting properly before I could remove the last of old wires and immediately replace them with fresh... AND it was nicely tuned when Nate came around to check up on my progress...
AND his joy at seeing his Daddy's old guitar not only back in one piece but to pick it up and play it again... THAT was a moment I will never forget. Not only had I been truly privileged with the trust of a beloved instrument, the last piece of his father's heart, soul, and memory embodied in something hand made by the old man, but I'd accomplished what I was trusted to do. Two boys had left their home town for different ends of the world, during our own war-time services... We'd become men and done a LOT of growing up for that.
...BUT for that beloved guitar, hand crafted in a hell-hole like Vietnam by the grizzled hands of a Marine who'd be hated when he returned... We were boys again... if for a short time. We could sing and dance as if we were rock-stars, and the old man was right there in our hearts and memories... dancing and laughing with us...
It was GLORIOUS. It was the single MOST BEAUTIFUL sounding instrument I'd ever heard in my life... and will likely remain so. ;o)
Your story brought a much needed smile to my face. Thank you for sharing it.
Amazing wording
You ever heard of fragging?
@@BattGaming Thanks... The video theme, mentioning how an instrument's sound, voice, or beauty is more in our own ears and psychology than necessarily in the instrument, itself, just reminded me. Seemed like the kind of thing that belonged here...
I'm glad you enjoyed it. AND you're always welcome for sharing... ;o)
@@kagitsune Yeah... I have. It goes by various descriptive terms... I'm not sure what brings it here... BUT I also know that the first 30 seconds or so of a fire-fight is for getting rid of friends you don't need or want to keep around...
They called it "fragging" in 'nam... because quite often a fragmentation device (grenade or mine or improvised...) was involved... ;o)
Excellent video
We could, and by "we" I mean the finest luthiers in the world, make a new, accurate and so fine-sounding Strad as long as "we" had on hand exactly the same materials as were used to make the original ones.
Of course, that is as impossible as paining with Rembrandt's paints. None of the original materials exist anymore and replicas of these materials, no matter how attentive and finely crafted, would not be accurate to the original materials as many if not all of the ingredients that went into making them also no longer exist, and so on, etc. Also, the exact ratio of these ingredients, colour by colour, is unknown. Great age has deeply affected what we observe or can measure on his canvases today.
This so for Strads. They surely sound and feel quite different today, and would do so even if they were played over the ages by the same musicians, which is, of course, impossible, than how they sounded when they were made, which is yet another thing that we cannot know.
Even the piss that was so famously, fortuitously and randomly sprayed upon the wood piled on the dock, which wood was used to make Strads, had chemical compositions that are unknown and therefore unreplicable, not mention that of the wood itself.
Making a great Strad-quality violin is just like creating a great lawn. First, you get the very best grass seed available and find a relatively flat field covered with thick, rich planting soil. This field must be in a place such that it has the best ratio of hot, moderate and cool weather, as well as the perfect quantity of rain fall throughout the year. Then you sow the exactly correct amount of the seed per square foot. Finally, you fertilize it, mow it, and weed it for five hundred years. No problem.
It would have been nice to actually hear a “Strad” played.
Well there are about a million recordings of Strads around -- go listen to some of them.
Listen to some Nigel Kennedy, one of the greats. The classical world hated him though, when he started doing Jimi Hendrix covers on his Strad lol.
@@franktriggs,
Thank you for the info, I’ll look this up. Joni Hendrix in a strad! How cool
If you're listening on the internet, the main factor would be your computer or smartphone's speakers.
@@johnnyquist8362,
Makes sense. Still, it would be nice to hear.
I thought what made the "STRAD" sound great was the treatment they received for storing the wood. At the time they where making these violins, there was a spruce bud worm explosion. So before storing the lumber they would treat it with borax to prevent the worms from eating it. Over time it would crystalize and produce a lumber that was very good at conducting vibrations.
He mentioned that the wood was chemically treated in the video. :) The issue is that people don’t know the actual full process he used.
@@princessaria What ever the process, it cant have been that complex given the period and the a relatively limited availability of chemicals that could be used.
That's interesting. I didn't know that, hadn't heard it.
@@princessaria Did he rub them down with ashes? Or sand? We may never know.
I heard he sank the wood a lake for a prolonged time and then dried it.
I think the reason some old electric guitars resonate so much unplugged isn't just that they have been played a lot. But that they were actually getting wet, laying in a hot car, then cold car, getting sweat on and that made small "pockets" inside the wood loosen up.
I can’t believe they did spend more time discussing the wood he used. Drum Workshop covered this and demonstrated how the trees are selected from the singing forest in the Dolomites.
I was so close to commenting with some criticisms half way through - glad I kept watching instead, because your counterpoints at the end took care of most these criticisms for me.
Well done.
For the group test thing where people couldn't tell the difference or preferred the modern one feels weird too me. I don't know too much about violins (like the actual violin) I played violin before but at a beginner level. I recently watched a video by TwoSetViolin where they compared Expensive violines to strads, guarneri, etc. Even as a blind test I was able to pick out the old classical million dollar violins everytime. They resonate a lot better in particularly the strad. After watching the video I found I preferred the sound of the Guaneri which resonates better than the expensive violins but has a thicker, warmer sound than the strad. But the strad 100% resonated and carried its sound better than the expensive violins. Fyi the "expensive" violins weren't "new" they are $10,000~$100,000 violins some I think were made in 1800s. (The video was mainly just comparing the top of the line vs expensive). Also the video I am referring to is "Professional Violinists Guess the Price of Violins
".
TwoSet both have modern violins made recently by Kurt Widenhouse. The blinded tests have been replicated and most people prefer modern violins.
A deceased friend who was very wise, an amature string instrument maker and also an amateur Apiarist (bee guy)..used the bee glue , propolus (spelling questionable) for many things. as an antiseptic, as a cure for tinnitus, as a wood finish and many others. He swore that the Strat was finished with propolus. I have used it on rifle stocks, and can testify that it is very difficult to even a small area, that to do a violin would take weeks if not months. The tone could be worth it, and the smell is awesome and totally waterproof.
My Viola teacher in Phoenix had a Nicolo Amati Viola, one of 4. Amati taught Stradivarius
I laughed when he said "today only 650 Strads remain". Seems like a huge number to me if they were handcrafted by one dude.
More like he had a whole workshop and a couple of interns. Famous painters were the same way. Someone would do the grunt work and they'd put on the finishing touches and perform the final quality check on it.
Let's also consider the overall age of these things together with the sum total of violins, etc that exist in the world. It's shockingly small. How many things can you name that are 350+ years old and still used? How many violins are used around the world? The place where these two circles overlap is minuscule.
If you consider that this was someone's full-time job, and he probably had other people in his workshop, 650 doesn't sound that huge.
He probably made even more specimens that just didn't survive.
Yes, because the idea of making 1.78 violins every day for a year is so outrageous...
@@Zeverinsen Well yes, but the actual construction of a violin in a workshop is usually done in bulk. While it could take weeks or months to gather the materials, treat the lumber, carve it into the necessary shapes, and so on, once the prepwork is complete, assembling it could be done in a matter of hours, and as one violin is completed, another is ready to be assembled, and so the rotation cycles through again and again. Depending on how much of the process actually demanded Stradivari's personal attention, he could have made only 1 violin a week, or he could have finished dozens every day once the ball started rolling.
I remember a tv show where some famous wine specialists were seriously discussing the outstanding quality of the red wine. Which in the end appeared to be a cheap white wine coloured with beet juice.
But that does not mean a strad is not an outstanding instrument. Like some modern violins too.
'cuz it was later shown that after the first comparison taste, so-called experts are so saturated with numbing alcohol that none can tell any difference whatever...
@@LibrawLou
Experts spit out the wine after tasting.
That shows ,that "experts" are not always real experts(anymore),especially taste can get wrong ,when you get old
I seriously doubt it can happen with anyone remotely a wine specialist. It won't even happen with a casual home drinker. The tannins in red wine gives it a distinct mouth feel. A swirl of the glass will show that the legs do not match the colour. The aroma would be a dead giveaway before it is even drunk.
I've seen a wine drinker pickup the fact that the glass he was given were the same style red from different parts of the world. He discerned it just from the bouquet and confirmed his opinion on the first sip. It was a trick to catch out sommelier trainees in a Michelin starred resto. The commis were fooled, not the boss....
@@rebecca4522 yeah if they cant tell the difference between red and white wine they have an issue. Whites and reds taste distinctly different and beyond that you can tell eg a merlot from a cab. As for tasting the vintage idk about that stuff.
The wood on a Strad was aged in volcanic ash and the varnish contained diamond dust.... ✨✨✨🎻
I've got to say, I have a strong suspension this 'silvery sound' is really just a quirk of human psychology. We have attached some significance to these instruments, so we hear something different.
Humans can tell the difference in sound between hot and cold water when poured. The water had undergone zero chemical or physical changes, other than temperature
This is the same thing. Sometimes humans are just weird
@@dustinodunne3572 I mean, he talks about it latter on in the video. They did tests and people couldn't tell the difference. A bit like wine in that way.
That's preference of instrument by human perception, so, you're partially right. You can measure the 'darkness' or 'silveriness' with a with spectrograph. If you have more of fundamental pitches read the instrument sounds 'darker,' but if you hear more of the harmonics of the pitch the instrument sounds brighter. It's how lots of strings are designed, to either double down on characteristics of an instrument, or neutralise them. If you look a maker like Del Gesu or Guarneri, who Strad is usually compared to, there tends to be thicker plates, which translates into more material to excite/vibrate, which means a 'darker' sound. Strings are designed in a similar way - strings with denser material or wider diameter produce spectrographs with more of the fundamental pitch relative to its overtones.
Dustin, that is completely false. The reason we can hear the difference in the sound of hot and cold water is because the density and viscosity is slightly different. So it absolutely does change physically.
I think originally Strads really did stand out from the rest - as stated, Stradavari was an excellent violin maker who had access to high-quality materials - so there really was a special sound they produced that the rest did not. But in the modern era, we are now able to produce high-quality instruments consistently, so today's violins don't lose to Strads. But because we've been told for generations that Strads sound special, we believe it, even though they don't sound better than modern violins. There's also the factor that only the most skilled violinists get to play Strads, so the belief that Strads are better gets perpetuated since we only ever hear excellent performances with them
So the Strad was basically the Monster Cables of their time. Something for “audiophiles” to overpay for because the placebo effect made them think it sounded superior to other cables. 😂
Actually no. Strad wasn't particularly favoroured during his lifetime, and wouldn't be until nearly seventy years after his death.
Strads were baroque instruments, and with the baroque set up Amati grand patterns were, and still are, considered superior to Strads.
However when the "modernisation" process happened, Straviarious and Del Gesu were the only two makers who's instruments were considered able to do the job of filling a concert hall, and so that stigma remains today, despite the wealth of makers capable of reproducing that quality.
@@adifferentangle7064 I've always wondered this, so thank you! Regarding what people from his time thought of him, I mean. It's a bit bizarre that these instruments lasted hundreds of years when nobody back then was fond of them. I wonder if any of the supposed "top violin makers" from those days have instruments that are still alive
@@adifferentangle7064 It's not strange for famous figures in the arts to have become famous after their death. Bach, Van Gogh, Monet, H.P. Lovecraft, are just a few examples
@@raerohan4241 It's not that Strad wasn't famous, or well known.
He was quite well known. He just wasn't in favor to the extent he is now.
Not the "creme de la creme".
@@vangoghsseveredear The Cremonese started the violin making family and the instruments of the Amati family were considered the best at the time, virtually until the end of the baroque period, and this would not really change that much until the modernisation of the violin. There are still quite a few Amatis floating around, although almost all of them are in institutions now.
Even today, Amati patterns are typically preferred for baroque fiddles.
I love that metal calcium - it doesn't half weld a treat...
Reminds me of high end golf club, pool cues, and other sporting goods
Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. Music is a subjective art for the listener, so believing that an instrument is special does have an impact. Combine that with the fact that anyone even touching a strad is probably already a world class violinist on their own and of course they will have a reputation of sounding beautiful.
That's what seldom gets pointed out--that you need to be a world-renowned fiddle player to drop a deuce in the loo in the same building that has a Strad violin in it, let alone be allowed by its owner to even consider looking at it up close, let alone attempting to play anything on it.
Strads sound good because of the skill of the people playing them, not because there's anything astonishing about them other than their age and price.
The same thing goes for any other kind of decently-made, mass-produced musical instrument today.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Same reason 1958-1960 Gibson Les Pauls ("Bursts") are so highly regarded...just look at who was playing them. Tons of "self-fulfilling prophecy," especially since the majority of an electric guitar's tone comes from the pickups and amplifier (Glenn Fricker of Specter Media Group had a luthier build two guitars with the same specs and hardware, but from different woods [one ash body with a maple neck and maple fretboard, and one mahogany body with a mahogany neck and ebony fretboard) and put them in a mix where the two guitars would swap in and out. He offered one of the guitars as a prize if someone could identify where the changes were and which guitar was used at each point. He still has both guitars.
The instrument/equipment does make a difference as I've found singing with an "average" voice into to top recording gear, but it's the performer, not the instrument that really brings out the nuances of the piece. A fine violinist will sound great on a K-mart Blue Light Special.
"Has a silvery sounds"
"Found metals in the wood"
So while the process is unknown, has anybody tried to make violins with metals in the wood and see what it sounds like with different metals? That would probably be an interesting paper just for the sake of it.
I've seen electric violins that are just frames, for that matter. Still sound like violins, though!
@@NemoConsequentae but can they reproduce the silvery sound that people report but cannot be measured by scientific equipment (right now)?
@@uplink-on-yt That is for people with better ears than I to decide! :D
Metals in the wood - that's a lot of hoo-ha garbage!! ALL woods absorb metals into them from the ground. There are too many speculating about why these sound better. It IS the age of the wood as it dries it becomes harder and therefore deflects the sound waves increasing the tonality of the instrument. I am not just a maker of instruments but I too play. I understand all physics that are involved in acoustic and electric instruments. Nothing makes a magical formula for tone since what sounds good to one ear may not sound good to another. More than anything Stradivari was popular because he was an established name and not so much that he was a great maker. At that time who can name all the instrument makers of the day? Don't buy into this - it's all hype.
Most of the violins of today actually sound better as they are new woods that aren't ancient and won't have the same resonance but the tone will be softer and therefore have higher treble response over all without muddy overtones from the bass strings. It doesn't absorb volume or deflect sound so much as it helps to soften it. This makes for a more desirable effect. I believe that people want something that is old and made in a time before they existed and put an emotional value on it because of that more than any true quality.
I violin made of metal would sound somewhat similar to a banjo. Clarinets have a "woody" sound. Saxes are more metallic.
I equate this with the Zen $100 cup of coffee experience. A small monastery runs a small restaurant (or did years ago) on a slope opposite of Mt Fuji. They offered a cup of coffee for $100. You would sit in a special room with a magnificent view of Mt Fuji, while someone steeped the coffee in front of you, and with great ceremony and formality bowed their way out of the room to leave you alone to enjoy your coffee, and the view, and the moment of quiet contemplation as you were considering you just paid $100 to do this. I don't know of anyone who said this wasn't the best cup of coffee they ever had.
I remember hearing about this in school, and had often wondered if it was really true. Thank you for clearing it up?! 🤔
"why can't we make new Stradivari violins?"
Me: probably cuz he died like 300 years ago, but I'm not a musician so what do i know.
R.I.P ✝️.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Prolly put the wood in salt water or something simple like that lmao, but ig well never know😂 not until we get that rick sanchez tech
Oh jeez i didnt even get to the "he may have put salt" part lmaoooooo
Nice, but wrong. The real reason you can't build a new Stradivarius violin is because their already old.
In the middle of the video, I wrote a question about double-blind studies, comparing them to similar studies that looked at sommeliers . . . only to have to delete the comment when you actually addressed it! 😆
Same with me about a comment on the little ice age.
I did the exact same thing
I'm a bit unconvinced by that though.
The double blind study could be absolutely authentic to completely disingenuous depending on the whether the population involved is random people off the streets or violin virtuosos.
As someone learning, some things really have to be taught to realise they were indeed there. My medicine professors call it "the eye doesn't see what the mind doesn't know"
Same here....but I did keep the second part of my comment intact.
@@dr_arcula I would prefer a study in which an audience listened to Strads, then other violins - and only then were 'blinded', together with the players.
I had opportunity to taste some vintage Napa grown wine aged to peak, and nobody could exaggerate how heavenly the taste was.
I am new to this channel… heard Hank’s voice and knew this is reliable…
*Hank
@@robinroryld thanks haha