Cookiezi vs. WhiteCat
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Cookiezi and WhiteCat are two of the most recognizable osu! players, and their respective periods of dominance (WhiteCat’s is still ongoing) have sparked fierce discussion about who is the better player. Today, let’s compare these two legendary players in two different ways - objectively and subjectively.
⭐ My Social Media
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / frenz396
Twitch: / frenz396
Subscribe: / frenz396
⭐ Cookiezi's Social Media
CZcams: bit.ly/2lCvn8u
Twitter: / shigetora_twit
Twitch: / shigetora
Profile: www.osu.ppy.sh/u/124493
His osu! skin library: gist.github.com/Fobxx/107e2ba...
⭐ WhiteCat's Social Media
CZcams: / whitecatosu
Twitter: / whitecatosu
Twitch: / whitecatosu
Discord: / discord
Instagram: / officialwhitecatosu
Profile: www.osu.ppy.sh/u/4504101
His osu! skin: • osu! MY SKIN RELEASE +... - Hry
They have basically the same godly skillset because Whitecat is Shige's pp cat
this is actually big brain
Conspiracy theory
pp is cringe
osu!theories
www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/dgj0qs/ever_wondered_what_happened_to_pp_cat/ i keep this on my notepad so I never forget
i can smell both shige and whitecat fanboys typing paragraphs
Yep
Whitecat and cookiezi dont care but yet everyone does for some reason🤷♂️
Haha
@@jimy5086 Its not that I care about if someone thinks Whitecat is the best (i think cookiezi is the best) but I hate how Whitecat fans see it as an objective thing and the only thing they see is Whitecats pp which annoys me. They say Cookiezi is way worse than Whitecat and that is just so wrong. Other than that, I think It is okay to think Whitecat is the best but to say that is objective is just wrong.
literally the comment under you was a paragraph on cookiezi
For those arguing about this and that here, listen to me carefully:
Both, Shige and WhiteCat are better than me or you. Hope you enjoy your life
No I can't enjoy my life knowing that whitecat barely reacts to 900 to 1k scores
@@dr.chopper3804 he's probably gotten alot more 900 and 1k pp scores during his ban period, so it isnt surprising that he barely reacts to his scores.
@@masalachai569 Yeah he got a 1k pp score during his unban which is the Fc on Wizard's tower with HDDT
Masala Chai he had one only 1kpp play and barely 900s
lol
We'll see how the next few years go
Merami go brrrrrr
Bet he’ll get banned
Chris ? Who will get banned?
Out of the replies I've seen thusfar, this is the most logical response. Thank you.
Grippeh whitecat but I’m not saying he’s not a talented player but only that he’ll get accused of cheating by some sort
I'm pretty sure shige still has good accuracy even in military
triple collateral headshot
so this is what they meant when they say osu improves aim and accuracy
Shooting Training [Extreme]
HRDT 100% SS FC
He's gonna FC and not waste a single bullet
@@nyoom1 and better yet, he's gonna put on relax and spray everyone
This comment section is a warzone
To me, it looks like the comments all agree the video is very biased..
@@leggo15 it's a controversial topic anyways
Please was never an option
I cant even pass a 3 stars song OvO""
@@jadebayoba7073 ?
Can we get a Shigetora vs Cookiezi next?
@@sevendigitosu I think EliteBrandon365 is better than those 2
Angry 12 year kids who don’t understand sarcasm “SHIGETORA IS THE SAME PERSON AS COOKIEZI ARE U DUMB”
@@pseudo2898 SHIGETORA IS THE SAME PERSON AS COOKIEZI ARE U DUMB
I think they are both insane, the thing making cookiezi more stellar and legendary is that he was so ahead of his time.
To me, both players are extremely amazing. While I do have a soft spot for Cookiezi as I've seen his replays for years, I do believe that WhiteCat is getting there too, albeit later. Cookiezi started a lot earlier than WhiteCat so it's expected that his skills were better.
As I see it, Cookiezi stopped improving around 2017 as some of his scores at the time were basically unchanged 2-3 years later. This includes scores like Everything Will Freeze HDHR which he had a near FC years ago before the 1 miss play. I don't believe he hit his ceiling skills but instead that he lost the motivation to keep improving for some unknown reason, thus affecting his improvement and making him stagnate on almost the same skill level with minor improvements. Had he kept improving like he did before, he would be setting stupid scores at the present time (or up until he stopped), which would go unmatched for years to come.
WhiteCat, starting years later, had a very good improvement too and to me it seems, the same rate of improvement as Cookiezi had. This means that his skills today can match Cookiezi's 2016-2017 skills because he finally caught up to him. With the added fact that Cookiezi hasn't kept improving significantly his scores from 2017-2020 are on grounds of being beat by WhiteCat.
In my eyes, had Cookiezi kept improving past 2017 like he did on previous years, he would be 3 years ahead of WhiteCat in terms of skill, but only because he started earlier and by matching their dates of when they started playing, they would be on pair with one another (yeah, I know Cookiezi would still have 2 years ahead but don't forget that maps back in the day were a lot more lacking and didn't offer such a wide array of skills found today, making it a lot harder to improve due to the limited pool of maps and skills given as the game wasn't very popular at the time and with the added breaks Cookiezi had too, those 2 years are basically nullified).
Hey I have a question and I hope you can help me with it. I am a relatively new osu player and missed the whole cookieZ dynasty. Why are people asking the question of which of these two players is better at the game OSU! when whitecat has 39 plays better then cookieZ's best of all time play?
People talk about the potential for whitecat to improve and pass cookieZ cuz he played a lot less but to me it looks like he passed him quite a bit ago
@@ronald000610 you can't really say 39 better scores than him since both plays different play style and have number 1's in almost totally different types. i can be very biased as to say; to this day only Shige able to FC and even HDHR Onigiri Freeway [Pkhg x Tatan's love extra] and only 1 other so far able to FC it beside shige, and it's only nomod. nobody has nomod FC'd it yet. also Freedom Dive HDHR which is still unbeatable after years.
but that's incredibly biased, i mean i see whitecat's play too and holy F he's definitely a faster player. so really, different playstyles
i cri ;-;
"when was the last time i enjoyed this game?" -nathanonosu
@@ronald000610 also why ppl may say shige is "better" probably because his scores are only nowadays beaten, and those once was unbeaten scores was set YEARS ago.
yeah his plays years ago is only now competeable by players
we may say he may come back, but
"when was the last time i enjoyed this game?" -chocomint
:(
The Tool Assisted Speedcore map really blew it
Wait really? I dont wanna be this person but, can u tel me when he said that? Like the video or clip or stream
@@lifeline0235 he said it during his Tool Assisted Speedcore play
@@newleafoverit thanks
@@lifeline0235 the one that had 19m point
Cookiezi is undoubtedly the greatest player of all time. Whitecat has sealed his fate as one of the biggest osu pp dictatorships ever. They’re both incredible and have fairly different play styles, Cookiezi would probably be around where whitecat is pp wise if he didn’t quit but also remember that cookiezi started playing years before whitecat. I agree that osu greatness shouldn’t be about metas but holy shit they’re both fucking legends and comparing them is like comparing gods to eachother we can’t begin to criticize either because they’re both in leagues of their own.
Great video man keep it up 👍
Saying that even though whitecat has only been playing for a year now on bancho :/ you just don't know whats coming in these next few years
Cookie fanboi
im a fanboy of all the best osu players, they're much better than i'll ever be
@@kahwws5190 nice comeback. I respecc
pp wise, i dont think cookiezi would be around where whitecat is. whitecat is just better at dt and the meta favors him way too hard.
idk if it's me but i can feel the bias towards shige lmao
Lol ur pfp looks like ur mad at this video
@@wonsherazukun5820 its Willy's pfp but red?
yup, it's from facebook messenger's old emoji design which was replaced
5:28 he literally said it lmao
This comment should be titled "Typical 6digit doesn't pay attention to the video in favour of fanboying for WhiteCat" since you obviously didn't pay attention when FrenZ said that he was biased towards Shige around the 5 minute mark
White cat's logical stim score had a shock value of "WAIT??? HE CAN DO THATT???" Proving everyone wrong that he isn't just some DT farm god.
Road of resistance hr also
not really imo his euphoria and ror already kinda proves the point before that he never was a dt one trick. I mean he is a DT farm god but he was more
Soon it will be that one retarded rubiks cube map
@@connerhagerman2470 that would be way more epic than logical stimulus in my opinion. I think he can do it. But im gonna have to wait if he even tries. That thing has like 178bpm stream as jumps basically 356 bpm jumps. But flying tuna have managed to hit it before so i imagine whitecat can. Also that map is actually pretty cool i dont understand the hate
David Silaen im not hating its just retardedly hard
Stupid theory:
While cookiezi was banned, his brother started playing again and got as good as cookiezi
when he was unbanned his brother played for him and is now the god we know as chocomint/shige
Lol
Dude that's deep
the ol' switcheroo
ever wonder if he changed his info so that his brother cant get back on?
German
I feel like it's crucial to note here that shige started playing 5 years before whitecat did, and if shige got a lot of his still legendary scores from 2014-2017, then Whitecat, if on a similar trajectory, is probably only in the first half of his time setting longstanding legendary scores (2019-2022 to account for a 5 year gap between when both players started). Of course it's fair and valid to compare two players where they currently are, so long as you're sure to note that one's been playing the game for nearly twice as long (or ~40-45% more if you go by playcount)
Or you could go by playtime and compare >1000 hours to 400+ hours. The point is that they're both great players, and I think most people are excited to see where Whitecat will be after more than doubling his playtime
@@lukioto That might be true, sure, he could have played 1000 hours in the 3 years he'd been banned. He ALSO could have only played 100 hours. I'd still be surprised if he's had more playtime than shige. Also, I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in the video that the dude that posted this video decided on 400 hours after taking private server and offline hours into account
2014 2019
I think discounting all the breaks shige took is bloating his playtime. While PPcat did play less, I don't think there's that big a difference when you can take everything into account (like how whitecate prolly played a crap ton in his ban, shige probably barely touched the game when he took breaks because he had an injury and severe burnout).
I Think you guys have forgotten that even though Shige played more, in that time the ppls wasn't that good. So what i'm trying to say is you couldn't improve that fast back then like now.
To say that there is even a comparison is showing how ahead of his time shige was.
You’re right, nobody is arguing shive wasn’t ahead of his time, that’s a fact, everyone agrees on that, but now we need a new timeless thing to argue on, who is the best player of ALL time
He's showing how ahead of this time he was and how ahead of the time he could be now. Shige just doesn't play enough anymore but if he did he'd be able to set many records that would last the test of time. They're both amazing players but he's showing how Shige could have easily took number 1 and could have done so much but since he doesn't have much time to play he'll never be able to.
@@muushki4875 sadly Shigetora Hands are getting worse and worse. His eyes are already holding back his skills. But his hands makes it worse. Despite that he still pull many amazing play even if it's not ahead of their time anymore.
@@Ersdown_Liberia Sadly... He is still amazing though, and it just proves that anyone can get as good as him as long as they try.
yea the fact that cookie and rrtyui were far ahead of their time,with 100% big black and with shige having the 800pp record and setting a 900 pp play while the closest players were at best getting their first 700s says alot about how good they were. i have a bet that the hdhr freedom dive score wont even be contested for another 5 years seeing that hes the only one thats done it with hdhr and the closest score is a hidden one with alot more 100s
This seems like some sort of, retired veteran, ex-number one Rocky Balboa vs the prodigy of prodigies unbeatable rookie kind of thing
cookiezi started 5 years earlier than whitecat and played longer than him. I feel like whitecat still isnt done improving and isnt done setting impressive plays
Edit: Let me rephrase, im not saying that whitecat is better than cookiezi, I'm saying in that the short time that whitecat has been unbanned, he has made a lot of non dt farm plays and is still improving. This video seems like it wasn't showcasing whitecats non dt plays and it seems like it was made too early, because you can't really see someones legacy until they are gone. We won't really see whitecat's full potential until he inevitably stops playing.
@@goaway4991 i agree
To be fair shige has hand issue so when he plays intese aim map his thumb starts hurting and can't hold pen properly (and if you didn't know he's had this issue for 3 years now)
and seeing how fast whitecat is improving, there's more to come than what we have right now
@@iamgamer2032 You can't just keep using that as an excuse, there's a reason why he got a hand issue in the first place, it's because he couldn't handle doing it. Saying that he got a hand injury doesn't excuse him of not being able to play as well. It happens to a lot of players.
@@doworian You got some statistics showing that it happens to alot of players? or do they just say they do.
want to see a war? follow these 3 steps
nubmer 1: go to comments
number 2: sort by newest first
number 3: enjoy
Because you talked more about Shige, here some Skilles/Scores from WhiteCat:
Can read EZ and AR11 (with high acc), can play technical maps (like Logical Stimulus, Sound Chimera, Frozen One, Vanity Clock + HDDT, High Way Oblivion...), best aim and jump skills on this world (regardless if he plays HD, HR or even both at the same time, look Fool Moon Night, Galaxy Collapse, Monster, Inside, Altar and multiple unranked 9/10* jump maps) and can stream pretty good (on normal BPM) (Songs Compilation +HR, multiple Yomi Yori maps, Road of Resistance +HR, Euphoria...). Last but certainly not least, look at his (currenlty) 12 plays over 1000pp (and even 3 above 1100pp)! Of course they weren't all FCs, but they are all above Shiges skills. WhiteCats only real weakness is: that he can't stream high BPM (and maybe old maps)...
PS: WhiteCat was 2 weeks after his unban #1 in the world (in pp) at the age of 15 years!
For raw skill WhiteCat is clearly better (look at his age, of course he can't use this skills 2 years ago...) but Shiges fame and in matters inspiration he is probably the winner
WhiteCat isn't 15, he never claimed it, the community is just dumb and most skill you said are matched by other players which as said in the video makes the difference between a specialized player and a dominant player. Also TV Size 1kpp are common now by many players and i don't think that the whole 50 leaderboard is over shige. Also what you call "Raw skill" is actually specialized skill which are not the same, and in "row skill" you take into account EVERYTHING which is clearly not the case here because "WhiteCats only real weakness is: that he can't stream high BPM" and you make your statment without this. He has aim and reading speed, definetly not the fastest player (which is either Mrekk, RyuK and FreddieBenson), in fact, not being able to stream high bpm stops you from playing like 50% maps above 7*, DT or not.
@@ruruchi_ his one miss chimera play was his 16 birthday
@@ruruchi_ "definitely not the fastest player (which is [aim player], [stream player], [aim player]' Care to elaborate what you mean with a 'speed player'? When it comes to streams it's safe to say Merami is the best at the moment, while when it comes to pure aim WhiteCat is definitely the #1.
@@spaghettikink1998 hmm Badeu could rival him now
@@ruruchi_ You talk about, that many players rivals his skills, but shiges aren't rivaled, there are mostly beaten. But sure, many years later
While i do agree with you that Cokiezi was a much more influencial player and probably will be for some time, the comparisons you make are not fair at all in my opinion. Where are all the ifranked 700pp HDHR fcs that noone can match? The fact that he outdoes Touchscreen players on jump maps and that he can basically stream followpoint-streams comfortably? That he holds the Nomod record with a lot of potential in store for him? That he is STILL improving rediculously fast? I'm not trying to discredit Shige in any way, shape or form, but unfair comparisons like these are not healthy for the community. It just fuels polarising and extreme opinions that end up maybe in a harmless insult like:"pff yeah farmer".Though alltogether, many people are downplaying a person who is an inspiration to a lot of osu players TODAY... who is setting groundbraking scores every week in the PRESENT time. Wanting to compare players is completely fine, but having a mindset that restricts an openminded conversation is not. It is sickening reading comments on CZcams and reddit that are mocking people inspired by WhiteCat, or that are basically just happy for him. I know this is kind of a rant on a video without any ill will and also the position of subjectiveness, but if we could live in a world where "shige fanboy" isn't a negative term for people who make unjust comparisons and downplay one of the best players in the current date and time and his fans, that would be great.
You just said everything, thank you.
don't forget his "2 names of his are blocked" argument. there is not much top players that remamed. only 3 i can really name are freddie benson, gayz (twice), and merami. like i'm sure their names are blocked too what's the point lol
The yomi yori FC was probably done after they already edited most of the video. This video is obviously biased towards cookiezi(FrenZ even mentioned it) so don't take it too seriously, its badly written if he actually meant it to be an unbiased video, which it clearly isn't. FrenZ would have to make an hour long video just talking about only WhiteCat or Cookiezi.
You didn’t get the point of the vid, maybe watch it til the end. Cookiezi is the greatest player of all time, that objectively facts. If whitecat has more influence and impact in the future we can talk. Only because you start dominating the leaderboards you can’t compare to someone who’s been at the top for many years
Haigrill-chan
2k viewers on average, one of the most subscribed osu youtube channels, and even got into a popular minecraft event.
if you're going to count impact, then btmc is objectively the best. he streams constantly and always pulls in 1-2k viewers.
might as well change title to why cookiezi is better than whitecat
Lets be honest,
*Cookiezi was ready for coronavirus with his mask*
sightread
what
@@aimtenshi lmao
8:05 fyi, whitecat has an s rank with ~98 acc nomod on dokitos yomi yori. arguably better than cookiezi's score, but the FC will definitely cement him above cookiezi on this map.
only on that map 😪😪
u r effectively saying that whitecat could only beat cookiezi on ONE map
@@PluginArtz whitecat has beat many of cookiezi's scores
@@PluginArtz cookie can't come close to sniping whitecat
@@muhammadidris2000 if you have seen his HDHR play on yomi yori where he fc'd the part he choked with HD only you would know that your statement is false
Being a player that joined late 2019 (so no nostalgic memories about legendary past scores) I can kinda tell that what holds people from liking Whitecat is merely the time he came in, with both Vaxei and Shigetora gone and no one contesting him it looks like some people just can't accept his presence or recognize his skills. I don't have a "favorite side" to fight for, but I always feel like Whitecat kinda gets less credit and too much hate for no reason other than coming back in the scene "late", if it was Shigetora or Vaxei setting some of the latest Whitecat's scores it would be a bigger deal in the community.
Influence does not equal skill... also you barely talked about white cats plays at all
I know i actually laughed when he started comparing social media stats. I hardly ever dislike videos and this is one of them.
Imagine comparing "Views, Followers, Replay watched counts" it's just funny cuz Cookiezi has gained all those in these 10 years while Whitecat only started getting attentions from last year
Well, I mean he did say he was gonna compare them both subjectively and objectively
@@awoo4772 Don't bother explaining, these people are deaf and illiterate.
@@Spectator9672 ^^
i have waited for a video like this
both, both is good
Sus
The video feels so incredibly biased. I'm not a "fanboy" of either but it feels like you spend 80% of the video talking about cookiezi's accomplishments and then just going like "yeah whitecat is a farmer who will be passed soon" At least talk about Whitecat's scores where he proved he wasn't just a jump map one trick such as ROR FC and yomi Yori s rank. This doesn't feel like a fair comparison especially considering the time you spent on each person. If you wanted to make it fair at least split the video 50/50
It's exactly the feeling i had in the entier video, one of the exemples that comes me in mind is when he talk about cookiezi's chokes and not whitecat's ones, such as Happy Song (wich would have been the 1st no mod 1000pp) and others. Any ways it will always be like this beacause compare 2 players who didn't play at the same time is, i think, not possible (to do it fairly, and objectivly on any point wich makes a player good or not).
Mehdi Mahboub
he acknowledged yomi yori s rank? i only saw him acknowledge his #1...🤨
Maybe he has been performing in top for 7 years so he has so much more achivements huh 2010-2014, 2016-2019
@Santiago Rodriguez Newton i do agree with you but the point of my comments is just correcting that he did talk about his yomi yori play that and only that nothing else
And his galaxy collapse with like 50 less misses than the second lowest miss count
Why are you comparing a 10 year old veteran vs a player who literally got famous half a year ago?
Bc people compare them all the time, that was an opportunity to a video.
Because they are basically the only two players in osu! history who's skill/rank has basically been uncontested whilst they were/are in their prime
bruh you know that he's been banned for a long time, like he's been good for a long time he didn't just become god overnight
@@SoullessNazzerin he became known overnight, thats the thing
@@dijinixiamn-5272 known not good
2019
WhiteCat : I can’t stream
2020
Me : * looking whitecat’s stream replays *
Me : what
he still can't do 300-350 bbpm streams
@@fiert1097 lol
@@fiert1097 ?????
@@fiert1097 ?????
@@fiert1097 ?????
Most of the video i find more or less reasonable but the whole "x years before y" point gets repeated far, far too much and is quite frankly not a valid point since neither of the two players prime time or even time in general overlapped. The point im making is that theoretically if whitecat joined osu when cookiezi did (2009), his recent yomi fc, his happy song S or his 1100pp plays would have happened around the same time or even before shiges freedom dive hdhr. Im not saying shige wasnt't was totally ahead of his time, cause he totally was but it shouldnt matter at all or act as a detriment to whitecats plays.
Note this comes from an unbias POV cause i personally think the whitecat vs shige thing is fucking stupid and they shouldn't be compared
side note: Not enough focus went on whitecats newer non farm scores and was portayed as a strict farmer which isnt entirely true anymore
yeah. Like the galaxy collapse [galaxy] 6 miss play.
i fully agree with you, there are so many plays like the 10* Jumps Lemon Tree or the Square Jump plays, Galaxy Collapse, so why portraying him as a strict farmer? ;)
2xmiss on Altar is terrifying
I prefer whitecat but remember maps that helped him get better wouldn’t have existed if he started when cookiezi did. His most impressive plays are 8-10* which weren’t common earlier than 2014
You have to think, you continually improve as you play the game right? Now if shige was doing that shit 2-3 years before everyone, imagine where he'd be today with out super long breaks or just outright quitting. The dude would probably be insane prolly FCing galaxy collapse since that type of map seems to be his strong suit. But, we will never know.
When I started Osu back to 2010/11 There was Cookiezi on rank 1 in Airman. That was so awesome.
I Think that cookiezi is still the best player today because he know how to do a wide variety of map and he is really consistant on anything. I don't play osu anymore but it's fun how it is so insane today. The most impressive player is Merami !
Comparing players cmonBruh
Edit: Im not trying to join in the arguement but this guy seems to dislike and/or is trying to undermine whitecat throughout the video imo. I could be wrong dont flame me pls
welp he doesn't, as he said clearly in this video, the main point is not a number on a freaking HTML page, it's just about what the player did for the community
Can't wait to see Shigetora back
can’t wait what the top 50 has in store for us in the future !
Damn, this was actually really biased, not saying its a bad video, but boi was this subjective.
Yeah cause the only thing I heared is that cookiezie is the best and whitecat dosent deserve his rank cause people can beat him
He showed stats and gave the objective result and continued with his opinion and supported it throughout the video.
I mean he did call it subjective opinion
He literally said the second part of the video would be subjective and biased to his own opinion.
He literally said he was going to give his own opinion but go off 💀
4:33 then there’s also the first places he lost when he was banned and then got again after being unbanned so less than 400.
8:01 yeah but if you look at the replay whitecat chokes acc and misses only at the beginning and ending and he has a play with like same combo as cookiezi but S rank.
Also there are a lot of crazy whitecat plays you didn’t include like his galaxy collapse 6 miss when everyone else had 50+ misses and euphoria hr 4 miss.And also whitecat got all these scores whitin less than a year of being unbanned so who onows what he will do in 4 years.Not to disregard cookiezi but in my opinion whitecat is definitly better than anyone else
S rank on Happppy Song, 1k combo on t-t-techno with dt, 98% on Tool-Assisted-Speedrun.
@@finger1079 and dont forget, all those plays didnt have hd on
To be fair shige has hand issue so when he plays intese aim map his thumb starts hurting and can't hold pen properly (and if you didn't know he's had this issue for 3 years now)
Whitecat would have serious competition if vaxei played more, but there's still others with potential such as merami
@@eqhlipse8120 T-t-techno did have HD on. Also, not having HD doesn't make the play less impressive you Cookie fanboy.
I think tournaments should be considered in the "objective" comparison
Plus its also about mindset , if you see a map and think "wow thats not possible , ill just give up" but then see someone else do it , it gives you a sense of being able to do it.
At the future, there will be another one surpassing whitecat and dominating osu for a period of time then it just repeats
Cue Mrekk
The term “Greatest player of all time” was poorly defined. Makes it difficult to know what your actually arguing for.
Anyone else notice that this was just a shigetora play video then more of a "unbiased opinion comparison video"?
can we compare shige's unranked maps and whitecat's? Havent seen someone comparing their unranked scores.
even though Im a cookiezi fanboy I can tell this is biased and actually a comparison unfair to whitecat
He literally states that he does have a bias to Cookiezi
School Presentations isnt an excuse that he doesnt research whitecat more
@@NotKotori No matter the amount of research he makes, the fact that he already has a pre determined bias will always lead to his choice as Cookiezi being the GOAT. In the unbiased section he sufficiently explained both players' origins and play style; he even stated how it was impressive that Whitecat managed to get to that skill level when Cookiezi played Osu way longer. In the end (or until we get a Whitecat era as/more dominant as/than Cookiezi's) it all will come down to personal preference.
And? You're welcome to challange his opnion in efforts of changing it but stating what was clearly said in the video is just... Idk man. What are you even trying to say here? Saying that it wasn't a good enough comparison? Well maybe FrenJ should have added a [opnion] tag somewhere... Though he clearly stated it was an opinion. Whatever, idk why I'm here trying to tell people to be more articulate.
Sidhant Tomar you’re welcome to challenge me too
another notable play in shiges favor would be his unsubmitted score on tool assisted speedcore.
That was a 1k wasn't it? If he submitted it I mean
@@froag1020 i dont believe so, but i could be wrong
trace I'm pretty sure it was, but he didn't submit it for a specific reason, I don't remember what
Im_Frostey i just checked, it wasnt even 800 pp with his acc. it also wasnt ranked. he didnt give any clear reason as to why he didnt submit.
@@froag1020 he paused on the last slider and got depressed, like:
Criminal: is your hand okay?
Cookiezi: no
Cookiezi: not ok
Criminal: holy that was insane
Cookiezi: I can't really hold my pen anymore
Criminal: maybe time to call it a day?
Cookiezi: so fucking bad
Criminal: thats not a good sign
Cookiezi: it was bad and first half literally killed my finger
Cookiezi: yo...
Cookiezi: rng player
Cookiezi: when was last time i enjoyedthis game
Cookiezi: fking tilt every single day
Great video, both players’ skill level are and were definitely far above their time, but since Shige had been around longer, he had been a bigger influence to the osu community than Whitecat has, ignoring raw pp top plays (two different eras of top players). Thats what I’m thinking about this comparison
I’ve just started playing this game on my iPad can I get eny tips?
This sounds very biased towards cookiezi, if we're talking about which player is objectively better, than social influence shouldn't be a factor at all
At 5:29 he does say he is biased towards Cookiezi but before that point he was speaking in an unbiased way
wholeheartedly agree
We could talk about social media, but only when White cat quits, because he's still on the rise in popularity.
Objective measure isn't a good way to measure who is the GOAT imo, because players are just going to get better and better. In 2023 there will be many players better than Cookiezi. Most of them won't be "greater" than Cookiezi though
True, but the greatest player is different than the most skilled player. I would say osu is most represented by cookiezi, whereas pp is represented as whitecat.
Damn, I miss Cookiezi.
What is the skin for the first clip?
if yall didnt see shige's twitter post, he said 'quit w' for osu
Bro stop lying to ourselves , Cookiezi might be more influential through Osu's history but Whitecat is clearly a better player overall with various skillsets .
Senkazo /cry
And who are you to say that as a fact
So, right now yes whitecat is better, but overall throughout all the years, shige did things NO ONE else could even think of doing. If shige didn't quit ever, literally no one would be able to top him. Not to mention the types of maps shige liked to play, they aren't just DT farm maps like all of whitecats top plays. They are genuinely challenging feats of skill, done 2-3 years before anyone else could do them. if he kept playing he'd still be years ahead of everyone. That's the point, he did shit no one else could do.
True but for some reason cookizie fans dont want to listen 🤷♀️
@@alancrome3684 lets be real who the fuck thought that galaxy collapse would get a 6x run. That play alone says how much ahead whitecat is of anyone
So you claim to compare the skill of the two players... and proceeded to compare social media stats and goes on about "cookiezi WAS better than everyone three years ago"... I hardly ever leave dislikes, but come on man this is a joke. Also, you seem to have a lot of bias towards Cookiezi. I would bet my life that if cookiezi FC'ed RoR with hardrock you would be fanboying over him but when Whitecat does it you write it off like it was nothing. Also not to mention that you say Whitecat is a meta player, but he has a the nomod PP record right now on a stream map, and a 6miss play on Galaxy Collapse. G a l a x y C o l l a p s e. S I X. M I S S.
he also covered almost 0 of whitecats plays. look at whitecats channel. a year worth of god mode plays busted out every 2 days
Also not mentioning such crazy scores as 2 misses on altar and an insane pass on lemon tree and the list goes on and on. I see a complete bias towards shigetora tho he mentioned it himself.
they comparing the two players not their skill only
@Cobra Yes, comparing social media stats wasn't a good idea, it would make more sense if whitecat quit, then we could compare what impact he had there, but to RoR, he even acknowledge that because Idke was so close to FC it wasnt as good. And yes if cookiezi would fc it before Idke even tryed than your coment would make sense in this regard. Nomod pp record isn't this crazy just because there are 2 other players who have the same score just with lower acc, and he wasn't even the first to do it. But if it comes to Galaxy collapse, I agree with you, he could include it in the video.
This was the comment we needed
this is a great video i love it
honestly if shock factor is your argument for why cookiezi is better than whitecat, then you've made a weak argument. if a play is groundbreaking and then some one tops it and it doesn't get as much buzz, it doesn't make the play less impressive (ex. idke played ror hr almost a thousand times and didn't fc, and there were major buzzes around chokes, but a big but lesser buzz when whitecat fced, idke's buzz doesn't make the play better). both players are extremely versatile with their skill set but whitecat overall is the better player, with the best aim the game has ever seen, along with some plays like ror that rival players like idke, when he doesn't exactly focus on that skill set. cookiezi was dominant, and ahead of his time, but whitecat is too, and he's much more dominant player than cookiezi ever was.
didnt he also beat cookies yori yori with a way higher combo choke and then he also got an s rank a couple days later
@Santiago Rodriguez Newton LOL I wanna see him making ep2 of this after the end of this year
well there's also cookizies hdhr play on yomi yori out there...
@@misuzu1flv629 no worries whitecat will fc it soon hdhr bro
@@Jose-qu9qk Jesus I hope ur joking...
@@berka8587 i'm not.
I think this video is a *bit* biased against whitecat. or is it just me idk
lol is this sarcastic
@@wasakurwa3722 hopefully
@@wasakurwa3722 I think what he meant was that hes biased towards Cookiezi because he said "against" idk
@@berka8587 oh I see
Bro did we even watch the same video? How can you hold such a sentiment against an opinion video? He clearly stated it so. He's stating what he believes to be true, and you're welcome to challange his opinion but just saying "oH tHiS viDeO wAsN't oBjEcTiVe eNoUgH" is just dumb. And if it's a troll, you got me.
The comparison is about which player was better, and I believe that if you were to match cookiezi and whitecat both at their primes whitecat would win, and not only that I believe he has not reached his prime yet as you can see how improvement is really insane. Sure cookiezi was really influential and was way ahead of his time but we are talking about cookieizs best versus whitecats best, I don't even know his best he just keeps getting better honestly
well said
edit: i agree with you overall, but you did one side it a *bit* much. whitecat has scores like embryo HR, TAS, galaxy collapase etc that are pretty unique and well ahead of others that are worth mentioning before dismissing him as a 3 mod precision aim player. you should also mention that shige has had nearly double the time to develop as a player compared to whitecat. But in the end, shige was more dominant in his time period than whitecat is now (if you dont believe me, his first 800 was set before most of the top 10 even got a 700pp score and took 2 years to even match (if you count remote control being nerfed, vaxeis fc was under 800). there are many ppl who can contest many of whitecats scores but not the same can be said about cookiezis scores in 2016 or really even now.
Everybody gangsta till Cookiezi starts doing Freedom Dive with DT after his break
They’re both good players. Cookiezi literally just plays it as a game now
Correction. He doesnt even play anymore. He quit long time
Use Way back machine for player profiles maybe
im so disappointed that you didnt mention galaxy collapse !
Im still waiting Whitecat's "Freedom Dive HDHR FC"
i mean he attempted it on stream before and got 1.4k combo before losing stamina cause he did other stream maps that day like yomi yori s rank
Yeah, it's definitely doable for him, he just needs to improve his stamina
recreational_Fish possible for a 99.84 like cookiezi though you think?
@@riceuu I honestly don't care about sniping or the acc, I just want to see that text pop up in my notifications someday
@@Oxydeologist yeah the score in general would be impressive either way
So ppl gonna beat White cat in 2 year's ???? Doesn't that mean that White is 2 year's ahead.....
and always been
Well, that's a fair point, but you have to remember that this is only the thing he said, White Cat can be beaten in a year or half, you don't know how long will his dominance last.
@@lospierdol FOREVER THATS THE GERMAN DEDICATION
@@weirddesign439 WW2 didn't work out that good though.
@@timerertim Hitler was from Austria dummy
Cookiezi FC'ing furioso melodia HDHR was also legendary.
can’t wait for the return of Shige. mans going to be physically buff and alright from military time. his arms and hands ache no more brothers.
Its a little bit too obvious that youre a shige fan
Nani ospastilein Did you watch the entire video? Lol
Watch the vid
Damn, i am a fan of shige but this is just so biased. He could've at LEAST talked about whitecat's INSANE improvement regarding the fact that he started playing fairly early. But well, shouldn't have clicked in a video with this title(FrenZ's channel is still good tho)
.
Can anyone tell me the name of the song started playing at 3:40? Would be great.
Seiryu - Seiryu pretty sure
@@gyro1269 thank you found it finally
@@Itami-Sama np :d. i think Seiryu means Blue Dragon in japanese btw
It'd be an interesting few months when Shige comes back
Your prayer has been answered
I think that many people underestimate Shigetora's current achievements in the face of Whitecat's ridiculous chokehold on the global leaderboards BUT I also think many people underestimate Whitecat's insane rate of growth compared to literally anyone else ever (maybe except Rafis when he first started?). In maybe one-two years WhiteCat can definitively become the better player than Shige and I think he will be because his mindset and rate of growth are incredible whereas Shige's mindset definitely wasn't the best most of the time.
I did like this video but Shige was too much in focus for the later half. Whitecat's 3mod skill isn't the most impressive thing to me, what's most impressive is his absurd consistency combined with his already insane skillset which makes him able to pump out these plays regularly. Also WhiteCat himself has crazy plays that weren't mentioned, Nobore Susume DT (comparable to Shige's), Galaxy Collapse 6 miss, Techno DT, Union DT, Scarlet Rose DT, and Roze DT among others. I respect that your personal analysis is your own, but I believe that WhiteCat deserves more credit than you give him.
This video could be titled, I tell you why whitecat is better but I like cookiezi better cause it gives me nostalgia
where can i get this skin on the video??
I find the end quote really confusing? You were trying to clarify what you mean by “greatest player” by saying that it wasn’t by the pp or scores then just ended of by just repeating “who was the greatest player” without defining what “greatest” meant
I almost never dislike videos but the bias in this is incredible. As someone who isn't a fanboy of either player, it was incredibly obvious how little respect you have for WhiteCat, skipping over so many of his mind blowing scores. Like come on man, of course Shige will be better if you spend 80% of the video talking about him. This is why I hate comparing players, and even worse players that aren't even playing at the same time.
He completely ignored how little tries it took whitecat to fc RoR with HR
@@martijn7000 And galaxy collapse.
"ThAt'S bAsIcAlLy aLl YoU sEe FrOm HiM" pls
I dont think it's mentioned enough how much HARDER streams are with hidden
Yeah I think that too, it's like yeah sure Cookiezi is a HD only player but that doesn't make it any less harder to do. He has mastered HD but that doesn't mean that you can disregard the difficulty of HD. It's like saying EZDT scores are not as impressive as people think just because youve masterd the skill of reading low AR...
still wondering if shige will play osu! again one day
Merami goes brr
Now do a osuShallah vs Cookiezi and WhiteCat, we will see who is the real god
osuShallah isn't so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a player with such an ability and movement with fox? Alex puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see a player with his skill and passion for the game again. Shige breaks records. WhiteCat breaks records. osuShallah breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic
@@likewise5938 osu Shallah breaks the game with his infinite skill being too much for peppy to handle
Cookiezi vs rucker, shaggoN, www, tana, siLVia, niko, thelewa, Dragon human, reimu, hvick225, rrtyui, happystick, rafis, idke, vaxei, white cat
Gotta love 2010-2013 shige, constant battle with other players
I just wanted to say that whitecat's accuracy is only due to his 3 mods plays, it would be different if he was only playing 2 mods max (99.55% acc on euphoria for exemple, 99.83% on sunglow hddt 5min today). Also cookiezi was here before 2014 and whitecat is improving a lot on streams and is already the best at tech streams. For now i agree that cookiezi is the most legendary player, but we'll see for the next years how it's going to evolve.
The fact that shige was so ahead of his time is scary. imagine if he still felt enjoyment from the game. freaking hell
I would say Cookiezi is much more influential, while WhiteCat has earned himself the #1 title for his ability to set 1000+ pp scores so easily. I would love to see the 2 compete for #1 head to head, as I do not doubt Cookiezi's ability to set 1000+pp scores.
I doubt cookiezi could set over 11 1ks and multiple 1.1ks
@@epicpeegaming2438 We know 3 he could set if he actually retried maps at the very least
this makes me really want a cookiezi v whitecat to happen
Furioso melodia +HDHR one of the best plays
Someone: Cookiezi or Whitecat?
Me: Bacon boi
well obv Whitecat is better, there is absolutely no doubt about that.
It’s the truth idk why people won’t accept it
@@DonDJ423 yeah man right but what if cookiezi continued to play until 2020? What would his skill level be? But he didn't play so WhiteCat is better xd
@@dr.aeshma You cantsay that ? he just didnt play, imagine if everyone continued to play until 2020 ? hvick ? a lot of players could, but saying this is the same as saying "if i played as much as them, i would be better" well maybe, but dont talk
I seen direct comparisons between WhiteCat and Cookiezi and Cookiezi most of the times gets better accuracy but misses or gets a slider break, and WhiteCat is able to hold the combo longer. I would say that Cookiezi has better and insane plays than WhiteCat, but WhiteCat is more consistent in his plays. Feel like if Cookiezi didn't take a break this year for whatever reason he'll probably be rank in the 3rd place just behind WhiteCat and Vaxei, being Vaxei the number one if he didn't take a break as well
@@pedrogarabito8664 I doubt Vaxei could catch up to WhiteCat at this point. WhiteCat has way too many 1.1k, 1k and 900s to overtake easily.
"i dont think he will quit like dropping it like a potato"
Literally the tweet: quit w
What is the map/songs name in 7:44?
Cookiezi has more upvotes on reddit so he's the better osu player and can click circle better
"now that I'm free of the shackles that is unbiased reporting"
guys being mad about his bias missed this part
@@YourMom-ny4ri Yes that is not bs at all, people seem to think he is taking social influence into his skill but he's not. He's simply making a statement about how much impact he has on the game and for that, it's totally a fair argument to make when looking at who the greatest player is. Nothing to do with his skill arguments.
name of the 1st map pls ?
thank you for blessing us with more content
What do you think about vaxei?
Imo vaxei is better at speed, consistency maps, tech maps and old maps. Whitecat is better at the rest
@@dijinixiamn-5272 the thing that separates cookiezi and vaxei from whitecat is speed. They can do everything that whitecat can do like aim jumps three mod and spaced streams but whitecat can't do high bpm streams at all
@@SM12Killer3 which is Ironic because he has the best yomi yori score
@@rhy8521 yomi yori is 220 and for example there is koa who is rank 160 and he can do 240. 250+ is considered speed
Sm12KiLLeR GaMeR name some 3 mod scores from cookiezi, and some really good 3 mod scores from Vaxei. They aren't close to matching him in 3 mod. Cookiezi at the end of his time, couldn't even read ar10.
The only thing i heard was "Cookiezi is the better osu play because more twitter follower and youtube subscriber"
Ok
okay and what?
Well the thing is that I personally disagree with FrenZ opinion here about how fame impacts your skill at the game. To me at least it seemed that FrenZ thinks that Cookiezi is the better player overall for a multitude of reasons (which is fair), however some of these reasons has to do with how famous Cookiezi is, for example when his twitter and youtube account gets mentioned. This is when I have to disagree a bit. But this is all just my opinion so take it however you want and that there isn't an opinion that is objectively correct. Hopefully this clears up the "okay and what?" question!
Felix Nordling ah got it thank for the input. I wanted to hear people’s opinions
@@felix56291 He wasn't taking social influence into the skill apartment of the players, he was making a statement about who the greatest is in the game and for that sense I do think influence comes into factor totally
the links in the description arent working idk
Legendary battle