Why Elektron Digitakt II is more important than you think
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Elektron Digitakt II is out. Are we finally seeing the rebirth of the polyphonic hardware sampler? All the important features are in place for this to happen.
www.plughugger.com - Hudba
before 2000 you had all the polyphonic hardware samplers you could wish for with crazy filters, crippled in a menu diving hell that is, but you had it. Now it's 2024... wtf happened?
I keep thinking this :)
Profit
I think it's lack of imagination, or perhaps fear of investing by money into a project that they feel could severely cripple the company if it would fail. But all those Kickstarter project that are getting funded within no time, tells me there is a wish for more advanced samplers with hands on controls etc.
There are still lots of samples that are polyphonic. MPCs, MC707 etc
On the other hand you could also argue that if you want two samples to play on the same time, just put them on separate tracks. It is/was ment as a drum machine
I guess with Elektron they want to keep things simple. Same goes for the Digitone that has less FM operators per voice then the DX7.
stupid, self entitled, Millenials happend.
Ironically enough I love that the OG Digitakt is monophonic lol. The sound of the machine is really pleasing to my ears for hip-hop and house music, and I recently just got an SP404 mk2 to compliment it for extra tracks and stereo sampling via MIDI. The Digi II’s new features and build look really nice, but for someone who already owns a MK1 I don’t think it’s worth selling quite yet for it.
How do you feel the 404 compliments your DT? Do they work well together? I have some issues with modern Roland stuff. I always feel there is a lots of button pressing and menu diving to do even the simplest of things.
@@ThePlughugger There's a bunch of odd button combinations most definitely, but coming from the Digitakt it's not so hard to wrap my head around. Things like the roll function or motion recording or editing of step sequences are a lot of fun once you get the hang of it, and I think you could chalk it up to spending time with whatever machine you decide speaks to you the most. Given the the Digi II costs more than a lot of its competitors with a limited-ish workset, I'm more than happy using the Digi MK1 and the 404 MK2 as a tiny SP1200/S950 combination. I think they work SUPER well together, no matter who's controlling who thru MIDI (even though I really love the Digi's sequencer a little more).
Thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts. And how do you feel about it can be run on batteries? Is that something you use or not?
@@ThePlughuggerThe 404’s battery feature is nice, but I only use them both in my studio for work. It’s a really cool addition for producers who wanna bring it with em wherever they go, but for me it’s a non-factor.
Thanks a lot, I haven't heard of the RK002 at all (which is surprising to me) now i absolutely need one ^_^
It's a fantastic little cable that can do so many useful things.
The lineage of polyphonic samplers ended up as workstation keyboards. Most of them can load huge multisample libraries. Korg Kronos, Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom for giant polyphonic multi-samples with huge numbers of voices.
Good point!
What’s your 1st most inspirational piece of gear if digitally is your second?
Yeah... I have to make a video about that. If I just say it out loud everybody will think I am a loon.
It’s one of those pieces of gear where the feature-set and aesthetic lured me in (v1 and V2) but I just never gelled with it or found it matching my flow...rather I had to match its flow, and that caused stumbles into rabbit holes of fun experimentation but little progress. The Octa just seems more my rhythm...and I’m more excited about Torso’s new creation for some reason
You bring up a good point. Elektron gear are a bit like that. Either you go into it fully and enter a state of nirvana, or you try to use it "as you want" - the latter is a road to frustrations. I've tried so many times. Torso? I think that have slipped my radar completely. What's coming?
@@ThePlughugger s4 granular sampler
Thanks - looks really cool, almost like a polyphonic Polyend.
I was hoping for looping functionality, like the Octatrack. I want to make loops that don’t always start on the first beat.
Currently you can sample fixed length sample that starts with a threshold, but then different loops will need different play triggers
That's a really good point. But now with the bigger memory, and upgraded internals, I could actually see that happening. Amazing though, that the Octatrack still is such an amazing instrument.
@@ThePlughugger yes I would almost just get a second Octatrack instead of the new Digitakt, since it can do so much, has the scene slider and multiple outputs
But the extra 8 channels, better time stretching and filters does make the new Digitackt interesting
It really does. But that damn Octatrack crossfader is so much fun :)
that crossfader is the single most impressive thing i've seen on any machine ever, in my limited (yet 35 years of) experience.
if i had the money it would go to the octatrack...
I use RK-002 for Volca Sample and Circuit Rhythm. Besides facilitating polyphony it gives the option for variation. For example: I have selected voice polyphony on the Rhythm. I have a little more distortion on one voice, a little less attack on another, sample length is shorter on the next, etc. Most polyphonic samplers, unless it’s multisample and even then there is often limitations, just use the same parameters for all voices.
Anyway, I enjoyed your video and am also excited for the DT II. Stereo samples, double the voices and larger memory are the biggest game changer.
That's so damn cool. Thanks for sharing. How do you use it with the Volca Sample? Just the same sample and settings?
Have you ever tried the Maschine+? I just got one and i love it.
Congratulations! The Maschine+ looks cool. I have the mk3 and I have a strange relationship with it. I like it when I use it - but I rarely do. No idea why.
It crashes way too much still.
Thanks for the mention, I thought the polyphonic play on the DT1 already made it a serious sampler and with 16 voices of poly it's even more wild. You can reprogram the RK002 to do all kinds of different stuff though, the Digitakt has always been a good source to play with sequenced controllers and clock signals on the RK002
Thanks for chiming in! You make really thought out products and I've been close to pull the trigger on your pocket calculator sequencer. What a fantastic design!
Have they ever mentioned their reasoning behind no polyphony?
Isn’t the Akai Force a modern day polyphonic sampler, with multisamples?
That and the MPC range. It a trend I hope will continue.
I'm not sure I got your point - that the Digitakt isn't a polyphonic sampler but that Elektron might make one? Or that they'll upgrade the DT2 with this functionality like how polyphony works on the Digitone? Or did I miss your point entirely? 😊
Right. That Elektron is about one step away to create a mode that could turn the Digitakt into a poly sampler. It's been shown both with software and the Retrokits MIDI cable it's not difficult at all. The DT2 have more voices, stereo and more storage - so technically it should be a perfect candidate.
@@ThePlughugger they had years of opportunity to do this and chose not to for launch, not sure why they would bury that lede
@@ThePlughuggermy guess is that TonVerk might have it and share a lot of the Digitakt engine
@@charlesv It's a good question. I am sure Elektron must have thought about it though.
What is the #1 inspirational tool that you own if digitakt is #2?
Regarding polyphony they could implement it the same way as on the Digitone where voices are allocated to the thing that’s playing
I'm not a coder, but I thought exactly the same thing. I shouldn't be too hard to make something like that happen.
@@ThePlughugger the same thing would be useful for single waveform samples that could be played like an instrument
Same thing with The Analog 4. It was only 4 mono voices when released, and they later added polyphony via voice stealing.
Right, so technically it should be doable. The Digitone and A4 does this.
I was hoping for duophonic and quadraphonic modes for the the DT2... but no
Why duophonic?
@@ThePlughugger cause you want chopped drum samples to have a bit of release to overlap, preventing silence and keeping the character of the sample.
agreed !!
This release looks quite interesting, although if we are talking about polyphony, why struggle buying midi cables and be stuck with limited polyphony when ppl can get an Mpc One for much less and easily create keygroups/multisample programs.
I've tried them all (really - all of them!) and I just don't like the workflow. Or maybe it's my fingers that doesn't like the touch interface. I never seem to get a good connection between the screen and my fingers. But just looking on the tech spec, the MPCs are absolutely fantastic.
@@ThePlughugger In order to arrange songs and play synths/control other HW, I prefer the Mpc, but to experiment and come up with interesting stuff I prefer the Digitakt.
That's a really interesting workflow. Never thought of it that way. How do you use them? Separately or do you sync them?
@@ThePlughugger I usually have them synced when I want to use the Digitakt, then I might sample the Digitakt back on my Mpc key 37 or in the Roland mc 707. Sometimes I might start something on the Digitakt and move it somewhere else
Interesting - do you do all the work on the hardwares or do you involve the computer as well?
What is your first piece of gear? :)
I’m wondering the same thing
Yeah - that's something I really should break down and make a video on.
@@ThePlughugger can't wait! mine is the Dirtywave M8
The tiny tracker thing? That's your number one piece of gear? I never used it, but I've heard lots of positive things about it. What is it that you like about it?
I probably will buy it anyway. I love the fact I can load my old OG DT projects to it. If polyphony ever gets added (with combining tracks likely), I'm just buying it, no questions.
Mine is already on it's way. Cool days ahead!
@@ThePlughugger Jealous, I live in Vietnam, so it'll be a while before I see one. :)
Then we are jealous of each other :)
Vietnam is a beautiful place!
At that price I’m good you can almost get the same thing for half the price what’s your favorite machine if this is second?
On paper, the Digitakt (OG or II) sounds like a basic instrument. I think the problem just reading tech specs is that you miss out on the value of the whole. If the OG became my second most inspirational piece of gear, this update will surely not make it less powerful.
@@ThePlughugger good points
Thanks - you got a nice channel btw. Been looking for things to put me on track with the SP404!
@@ThePlughugger thank you 🙏 I’m still trying to give the sp 404 some more love now that I got the time work slowed down
I really love that it runs on batteries. Looking forward to check out your videos on it.
what is the first most inspirational unit? I don't think poly sampler would be that fun, rather, I would prefer to see outboard control be more poly-oriented. Meaning, Octa still rules when it comes to controlling the setup with a synth that has to play chords, and even then there is 4 note limitation and LOTS of MIDI glitches.
Yes you have a point. But a poly sampler is like a polyphonic synth, it adds a layer of possibilities. Music made with polys vs monos have different poles they naturally drift towards. I have nothings against monos - it's just that monos have been the majority of releases the last couple of years.
@@ThePlughugger and I agree and wonder why Elektron can’t upgrade their sequencer forever now. Maybe Digitone mk2 is gonna do it? :)
incredible upgrade if this was there when I bought my SP16 TORAIZ the choice would have been harder :p hum, 16 stereo audio tracks now wow that's very cool. it's even address all my "meh" arguments coming from the dark trinity and flagship electron MKII to go on the DT form factor. Very well done Elektron ;) (not be able to play chords on one track would be my last "meh")
Agreed! And I still miss the Toraiz a bit. It could have been such a cool instrument if Pioneer worked on it a bit more. The filters were absolutely lovely.
I just bought a second hand SP16 a few weeks before the announcement of the DT2. But I am very happy with it, I pair it with the syntakt and actually I think that the form factor and the operation being different from one box to another helps me to perform them live better. The SP16 and the Syntakt play very well together, maybe that both have analog filters and saturation helps to that. I´m just starting with that setup and it feels great from second one.
@@FernandoCarvalhoprod I really liked my SP16. The filters were the best thing with it. I have no problems with the Elektron filters but the Dave Smith filters really really works well on the Toraiz.
The 1010 Blackbox is my polyphonic goto sampler
I've heard lots of good things about 1010s stuff.
Same here - and the Blackbox is a couple of years old and does 16 polyphonic stereo samples with no problems whatsoever. @Elektron: where's your problem? 😱
@@g3cd Couple of years old? Ha! My old EPS 16+ have 20 voices is from the 90s and probably has the processing power of 1/100th of the Elektron.
@@g3cd I have DT1 and BB. totally different philosophy. the DT is first and foremost a drum machine. yes it can do other stuff but people want it to be everything to everyone and its never going to be that. the BB is better in some ways and worse in others. they complement each other well I think. I havent explored integrating them much yet, im interested to hear what others have done with this.
It looks great but still no slide trigs though... whyyyyyyy? As an old school Elkektron user it's something I always took for granted so can't get past it if a machine doesn't have it.
Hm. Good point. Doesn't the Analog Rytm have slide trigs? And the A4?
@@ThePlughugger yea both do
Yeah - that's definitely missing. Just by curiosity - how do you use the slide trigs? I never got into them.
Stereo sampling is necessary if you have true stereo sources or synthesizers to sample from, where there is a substantial pre-processing difference between left and right channel (and not just pannin) ....my case moog matriarch
In the beginning I was a bit skeptical about the "hype" of stereo sampling, but it's really a big thing when sampling synthesizers. Just put a chorus on the synth and the stereo field increases dramatically.
I would like polyphony instead of stereo samples on DT2 as the new chorus can create pseudo stereo and there is a third lfo to automate the panning.
Whenever I want this on my og DT I just record a stereo track into my daw and bounce as stereo split and the 2 files on 2 tracks panned hard left and right. I understand that this is hassle for some people and they don't like sacrificing 2 tracks but I find it easy and like to keep my music minimal in terms of tracks anyway.
@@soundofmai Not a bad solution at all. Sure, two tracks are gone - but you've solved the problem.👍
@@ThePlughugger You can make also make up for using 2 tracks by using sound locks to use multiple sounds on 1 track. You can then get very interesting results when you change the parameters of whatever machine (slice, werp etc.) is on that track because it affects them all at the same time. I love the way creativity can arise as a result of limitations on Elektron machines and I honestly feel that just as good music (not just drums) could be made on the og DT as the DTII.
Maybe the polyphony will be a firmware update feature in the future?
It's a possibility. Maybe. Things have changed a lot at Elektron lately, and they started to listen more to their customers, so yeah - it might be a possibility.
@@ThePlughuggermaybe for example a poly group machine and if you select this one for three channels, this machine is working with the same sample and you can play chord with three notes. Just an idea 😅
It's a good idea! I think that's how the Digitone works. And of course the Analog Four. So it should be possible.
@@ThePlughugger thanks for your positive feedback and sharing your opinion!
To be fair, there is 1 new effect (chorus).
I'm really, really happy about Elektron bringing in a chorus. Maybe it's imported from the Analog Heat FX? In either case. My unit is arriving on Tuesday.
An Akai S6000 type sampler engine in an Elektron box would be awesome. 🤷🏼♂️
The S6000 is one of the Akais I've never owned. Looks fantastic. Do you have one?
I actually have owned a couple of them. Just sold my last one to a friend.
@@thesurgingmass Is the S6000 your favourite Akai?
It’s the reason I sold my Octatrack to buy an MPC. I need a powerful polyphonic sampler for what I do..
And you feel happy with the MPC?
How's that working out for you?
I hated MPC One... sure it's powerful but the interface is dogshit
It's really more like a workstation when compared with something streamlined as the Elektron Digitakt. The problem with the modern MPCs are they are trying to do too much. Older MPCs (maybe not the 4000 and 5000 models) were like the Elektrons. You just turned them on and started working.
@@ukbloke28 those were my feelings exactly.
Thinking of getting one but will i have to buy a cat too as Mr Twiglet my Jack Russell might not approve ?
Try to negotiate! One cat often leads to more cats. Or am I thinking of synths now...?
@@ThePlughugger I like the way you socket too me Plughugger - my synth situation is more analogous to rabbits than cats.I noted once that the most difficult challenge a human being can face in their life time is to own just ONE synth.Nigh on impossible !
@@twiglet2214 For me too. I was way more productive with two synths than... eh... the madness I am having right now. But productivity is not the end-all of music. Just having silly fun is important too.
MPC and 1010 Blackbox are already very capable poly samplers. DT2 is only jsut catching up tbh,plus Its still not as crazy as an Octatrack MK2
True. The MPCs fit that bill, but the interface doesn't work for me. I think it's because touch screens / my fingers are not very conductive. With the modern MPCs I'm spending more time trying to do things than actually doing them.
this!!!
Thanks! (cool demo reel by the way)
@@ThePlughugger Thanks you 🙏
Should I upgrade to a D2? No, I bought a barely.used mint condition MPC1000 instead.
A good choice. The MPC1000 is a very nice and inspirational sampler.
There are current polyphonic stereo samplers everywhere. Elektron didn't release something new in this realm. Check out the Akai MPC-X and Keys. Fantastic samplers.
Indeed! But what I am thinking of is that (maybe) we are (hopefully) seeing a trend of going from monos to polys. Don't agree with you on the modern Akais though. They are capable, but I have owned every one except the Keys and I didn't enjoy working with them. But that's just a matter of personal preference of course.
I feel like if you want a polyphonic sampler something like a Torso S-4 is a better fit. The Digitakt is more of a beat machine to me.
So excited for the S-4.
The S4 looks really cool I agree. Sounds amazing too. I have to look into this one.
I tried to find the specs / manual for the S4 but I can't seem to find any of that. Is it still a pre-production build? Curious on how many voices you can get out of it.
@@ThePlughugger It's a new product so I'm not sure if they finished the manual and stuff. The last thing I read is that they didnt decide the amount of polyphony yet. But I'm sure it has polyphony. It has different modes, and one of them is using it as a polyphonic synth/sampler. You can see it being used that way on their channel, looks really cool.
@@ThePlughugger supposed to be releasing in a week or two, so lots more info will be available. But it does for sure have polyphonic sampling, granular mangling, looping- all the things the DTII doesn’t have.
I prefer only dealing with mono tracks for samples. The TE KO2 is polyphonic out of the box. The electribe sampler 2 is polyphonic with 16 tracks and people complained about voice stealing 10 years ago, but they still make it.
Anyway, I'm seriously curious how they packed 400mb of ram into that box. I assume they were using some sort of arm cortex-m cpu with an external 64 meg ram chip previously. If they've managed to port their sound engine to a beefier SoC with A cores and embedded lpddr, then it has huge room to grow. So I'm keeping an eye on it.
Your phone still has more audio and processing capabilities than any of these boxes, you just need the knobs to plug into it.
I forgot about the Electribe 2! Very true. And amazing it's still being made. Wasn't there some clever guy who made a hacked OS for it not too long time ago?
“You just need the knobs to plug into it…” it’s called a FaderFox EC4. And I prefer to use my tablet (iPad Pro).
@@EverettVinzant The "knobs" is any USB midi controller you find useful, over OTG.
@@PaulSpades I just wanted to provide a starting point for an option. Saying “it’s anything you like” is nice when you know some things to like. Not everyone starts there.
@@EverettVinzant Yep - that's a cool working solution. But dedicated hardware always trumps generic controllers in terms of workflow.
SP404mk2 is polyphonic.
And so is the new Teenage Engineering KO 2 if I am not mistaken. But the Boss should be worth checking out. Do you own one?
Polyphonic sampling is a bit overrated. Ive had it on my Akai & Ensoniq machines, and honestly rarely use it….okay sometimes….. but the SP1200 will also only play one sample at a time per track. Its no problem, you learn how to make it work for you. And with 16 friggin tracks you got PLENTY of room to play around
I agree with you actually. Polyphonic sampling isn't the end all be all. I use my Ensoniqs for polyphonic work all the time. It's not about making Rachmaninov chords - for me it I use it for long release tails and or adding an interval here and there. The doctrine of Mono Sampling Elektron is effing glorious though. It teaches you to think and work differently, and as you said with 16 channels you are set for almost anything. That being said. If Elektron would release a polyphonic sampler with the Elektron workflow I would be the first in line to buy it. Example, sample a normal sine wave with an Ensoniq. Give it a long release tail and maybe a reverb. Now feed this into some tube saturation and just play notes with the tails overlapping each other. The release start to interact with the distortion in incredible ways.
I've never used an elektron product, but they do look like a lot of fun. Personally, I went for the Deluge years ago and still use it. Seems like a perfect culmination of the digitakt, syntakt, digitone, and octotrack. Granted, it's not as fleshed out in some areas, but it makes up for it with a bunch of other features that elektron just don't offer. Seems cheaper than buying all 4 of those other boxes. Anyways, not hating on the elektron croud. I just see them complaining about missing features a lot and I'm always amazed by what these boxes lack.
The Deluge is a bit of a headscratcher for me. I own both the Digitakt and the Deluge, and I much much prefer the sound and the workflow of the Digitakt. Yes, you can do more with the Deluge. But the effects, filters and general sound in the Digitakt is much better to my personal taste.
The presentation was weak and kept the audience in the dark. A better one would be if Mario or Ricky would have talked us through it
Everything went downhill since Hector stopped doing the presentations 😨
no internal battery, no arp/midi arp, no polyphony, and no looper. Zzzzzzzzz
This makes a lot more sense once you realize that Elektron still want you to buy an Octatrack.
An internal battery would have been awesome. I think that was made me most disappointed about the Elektron Model series, that the battery / carrying handle was faulty and discontinued. I would love to have a battery power in an Elektron.