In high school a few of us were scouring libraries and cut out bins for new musical flavors. We'd try just about anything. Penderecki, Can, Sun Ra, Partch, Varese, Mwandishi, Stockhausen, Braxton and Beefheart were in heavy rotation. A John Cage 8 track tape with a white cover when listened to a friend's room covered w/ tie dyed sheets had a singular kind of narcotic power that was undeniable. The favorite piece was Cartridge Music. From what I've gathered it appears that each performance of Cartridge Music would likely differ significantly from its predecessor. I wouldn't be surprised the same recording would seem to fall flat if listened to now. In that unique context, that particular recording seemed very impactful while on a diet of the most boundary pushing music we could find.
I've always enjoyed listening to "Sonatas & Interludes" (especially the John Tilbury rendition) and think much of it is gorgeous, but I'm an even bigger fan of David Tudor's performance of "Variations II" from 1961 (available on an Edition RZ collection titled "Music for Piano"). It's cacophonous and largely atonal, and utterly remarkable for being a performance from the early '60s. It sounds so ahead of its time, and so unconcerned with conventional music in general. Genuinely boundary pushing. I always get excited putting it on.
String Quartet, The Seasons, Seventy-Four, Suite for Toy Piano, Apartment House 1776, Sonatas and Interludes, A Book of Music, Mysterious Adventure, A Room, Amores.
While listening to the actual piece here on CZcams, I decided that, in the spirit of Cage, I should consider the commercial interruptions to be part of the piece.
As a Visual Arts teacher in an Australian state school I organised a performance of 4'33" for about 100 students aged 15-16. I ensured that they were not prepared in any way for what they were to experience. It was performed using the original 3 movement times on alto saxophone. It was followed by a discussion period in which students gave their opinions. Both myself and the saxophonist were amazed at the acceptance shown by the students. The senior (in her own eyes at least) Music teacher, who did not attend, was the only dissenting voice.
@@thegoatjesus6133 TBH I find some of his church cantatas and some of his lesser-known keyboard works a bit tedious. His best-known works, and many lesser-known are, of course, brilliant. Besides, I don't think that it's a requirement for any composer to be infallible.
I discovered Cage's music back in high school in the late '60s, and found it an inspiration. Then a few years later as an undergrad at York University, Toronto, I performed the bassoon part in the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra. My teacher Jim Tenney (who studied with Cage) may have conducted. I'd long since forgotten the impossible bassoon run at the end! Thanks for this reminder of why Cage still matters Samuel.
Incredible work, as always. I loved what you had to say about “what happens when you try, and fail- but you really try.” A lot of my favorite composers do this type of thing, but Gil Evans particularly comes to mind. (Congratulations on nearing the 50K mark!)
Not trying to make anyone blush, but Brian Krock's work on the Big Heart Machine and Liddle recordings is mindblowingly ingenious, getting props from him is a good indicator that you are swift to behold.
I became a fan of Cage after hearing a record by the Ives Ensemble that had Ten, Ryoanji, and Fourteen on it. Then I got the Boris Berman CD of Cage's Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano and I thought it was seriously fantastic. His prepared piano works are probably my favorites by him. It sucks that he's often thought of as a novelty act within the pantheon of 20th century classical music. He really deserves more recognition for the truly beautiful pieces that he often came up with, so props to you for giving him some! I actually hadn't heard this particular piece before but I'll definitely check out a couple performances. Your videos never fail to introduce me to cool stuff!
Speaking of cage, The thing I like about Child of Tree is that there is no barrier to musical intention/dramatic expression. You choose your sounds, do the I Ching rolls (maybe with a little accounting for taste) and you can simply express what you want to without fear of inadequate technique, missing notes etc. I have never felt more free and liberated in my life than when performing that work.
Thanks for introducing me to this fascinating work! I recently listened to a series of radio conversations between Cage and Morton Feldman, and I've become fascinated with them and their contemporaries (Earle Brown, Christian Wolff, etc.). What a wonderful return to these analysis videos!
I went into contemporary music by listening to Cage's "Three Dances for two Prepared Pianos". Since then, I have been a fan of contemporary music for over 40 years. The second work I listened to was Cage's "Credo in Us".
Great video. Cage wrote such a ridiculously varied collection music there is something for every listener whether it's In A Landscape or The Ten Thousand Things. One of my absolute favourite composers, such a shame his output is often reduced to meme-y pieces like 4'33 or the prepared piano interludes.
When I hear the word “beautiful” and the name John Cage I will always immediately think of “In a Landscape” . Performed on piano or harp it doesn’t matter , it is a stunning piece that I never get tired of hearing .
I quite like most prepared piano works, and Cage's is definitely a forerunner. Simply the idea of changing how we interact with any instrument is a very creative process, how can we not love it?
Hard for me to pick a favorite piece, but a performance of Ryoanji I attended in 2012 stands out for me. A truly life-changing experience. Half of me is sad that there is no recording of the performance, but the other half feels like maybe that's for the best. But, if I HAD to choose a piece as my favorite, I think I'd choose Cheap Imitation.
This is a most wonderful discussion of John Cage. It presents the methods, techniques, procedures, designs and instructions with sincerity that shows a deep, intimate, understanding of Cage. I found myself thinking, "what a good way to explain this or that thing." Tonight, I think I am in love with the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra.
I love John Cage's music and I hate how he's been labeled as "more of a philosopher than a composer" by so many people. I'm glad you've made a video about him hopefully more people get into his music beyond knowing he's the guy who wrote 4'33". Edit: I want to add that this was an excellent video and I agree with your conclusion on Cage. He was amazing, but like any composer some of his pieces are better than others. I'd also recommend to anyone who's curious about Cages music to read "The Music of John Cage" by James Pritchett, it's an excellent book that takes an in depth look at his music throughout his lifetime.
Thank you for the video, Samuel. I'm a big fan of John Cage and a lot of 20th century composers like Feldman, Earle Browne, Charles Ives etc but have no background or education in music theory or anything like that so your analysis videos are always a great resource for learning 🙏🙏
My favourite Cage piece? Haikai (1986). I've performed a number of his works over the years, and met the man on several memorable occasions. He's been a major influence on my compositions and musical concepts, but Haikai is the only work of his I've performed the premiere of. Evergreen Club Gamelan gave the inaugural performance in 1987. And I've played the suling part in numerous concerts since. The first rec. can be heard on this album, along with major Tenney and Tremblay works. czcams.com/video/k4pkA24zgnk/video.html
I agree . Great ideas and he brought eastern ideas to Western music ! So happy to see this. I hope youget a million subscribers and a teaching position at Yale !
Awesome analysis, thanks Samuel. I'd argue that one of the upshots of Cage's music is that performances can't be said to succeed or fail, though it's often easy to tell a competent, thoughtful rendition from a lazy one. Either way, the point is the engagement and interaction of the composer and performer(s). It's an attitude that inspired me to write a lot more than I did, and that gave me confidence to take my failures seriously. It's that kind of encouraging outlook that makes Cage one of my musical heroes. If nothing else, he's ecumenical in a way that invites creativity from everyone involved.
I thought for sure you were going to say In A Landscape is his most beautiful piece. My favorites are In A Landscape, Ophelia, of course Third Construction, Credo in US, and The City Wears A Slouch Hat.
Some of my favorite early works by Cage include Living Room Music, Sonatas and Interludes and Quartets I-VIII while some of my favorite later works of his include his Number Pieces
Excellent video! So happy to see Cage make an appearance on this channel. But for my money, his most BEAUTIFUL work is either Dream or String Quartet in Four Parts (another work that makes use of rhythmic structure (perhaps even more so: all palindromes) and harmonic gamuts).
I think anything Cage did was mindblowing, at least anything after 4'33". It is not about the particular piece, it is about a new general understanding of what music could be. Whether you find the individual piece interesting or not doesn't really matter, that's just preference. You propably chose this particular piece because it still bears some remainders of conventional music (?) It certainly is less 'radical' than concert for piano and orchestra, atlas ecliptalis, appartment house etc..
"Setting aside these amounts of time" deserves reflection in the context of the larger development of Cage's work. The Concerto is "early" (given how long he was composing). Later he is quite direct about his use of "time bracket notation" to express durational elements in a composition. This was already an element in his thinking when he composed the Concerto--and it is visible in the score when one examines, as you did, the "barred" structure in relation to the phrases. It is, quite literally, a "setting aside" of specific amount of time within the whole, which apportionments have a direct (ratio) relation to the entire piece.
Dream In a Landscape Six Melodies Suite for Toy Piano Sonatas and Interludes Experiences Three Dances for 2 prepared pianos Music for Marcel Duchamp The City Wears a Slouch Hat…to name a few. I prefer his work from 1942-48 but I know it all. Met him on a number occasions. I also spent time with David Tudor over the course of 10 years. Very important person in my youth.
Oh hey @samuel, regarding the IChing, you oughta check out this thing called Timewave Zero, I think you’d get a kick out of it lol 😂 it’s like a Data Music piece already written in stone haha
"In a Landscape" is the most beautiful of Cage and one of the most beatiful pieces ever composed. Take a listen: czcams.com/video/wQeNHAjC6ro/video.html
Yes! I was getting ready to post this but you beat me to it. Thank you. Peter Maxwell Davies' "Farewell to Stromness" is another example from another difficult composer. The piece transfers well to other instruments.
@@written12 I wonder if it is not the connection both pieces have to a place. Peter Maxwell Davies grew up in Stromness; a small town in Scotland. There's even a video of the place set to the music. I believe this is what the English also called pastoral music. It was beautiful and calming and grew out of the horrors of World War I and popular between the wars. After World War II, Gerald Finzi also composed a hallmark piece of this kind, Eclogues for Piano and Strings. In America after the WWII , the Pentagon and Veterans Administration discovered that quiet, "easy listening" music was beneficial to soldiers with what they called "shell shock" and is now known as Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, PTSD. The baby boomers looked down on this music but we did not understand what our fathers had gone through. But, all of this music is timeless and universal. I also recommend Ralph Vaughan Williams' The Lark Ascending. Thank you for your note. We both came to a same connection.
Rozart Mix is probably my favorite however certain realizations of Cartridge Music and Atlas Elclipticalis/Winter Music are also favorites, there are many. It is a mistake to dismiss Cage as a composer. Cage works are recorded extensively today as are most of the so-called "New York School". Morton Feldman works are performed and recorded extensively as well.
I am so grateful for this video! Like many one-time students of music theory, I was originally paralyzed by expectations regarding the Mid-Century avant-garde in both classical music and the visual arts. I avoided embracing our professors' passions (they were all dodecaphones to the un-tonal end), or rolling my eyes their direction and instead hopped on the rock & pop bandwagon, which was the reason to be alive for every fellow (but-late-for-the-party) hippy. Looking back I cannot believe that no other genre, nothing even sorta in-between, like Jazz, R & B, Disco, Minimalism, Neo-Romanticism, Late Neo-Classicism or Tonal Modernism were tolerated! I actually loved Samuel Barber, Sibelius and Stravinsky like saints. Oddly it didn't bother me to not be cool since unlike everyone else, I totally loved counterpoint. I still believe that a serious musician must possess a mastery of the protons and electrons of counterpoint & harmony, at least, and ideally should also study composition, history, orchestration, performance, electronica, comparative world folk and musicology. But John Cage? Karlheinz Stockhausen? Luigi Nono? Helllppp!!, Samuel! I don't think I'm truly a provincial bumpkin, but I cannot exactly relax during 4'33" like a duck swims up and nests in a tree.
Back in the 60's I bought Cage's book Silence and regarded him as a performance artist like the action painters or DADA. His 4.33 minutes of silence is equivalent to the slashed virgin canvas of Lucio Fontana.
Thanks Samuel, enlightening as usual. Je préfère ne jamais avoir de préférence parmi les oeuvres ; il y en a que j'aime beaucoup et d'autres moins, certaines pas du tout. Pour Cage, j'aime beaucoup ONEViolin - je possède un CD de cette œuvre par Christina Fong.
I liked your comment that Cage shouldn't e treated as a guru, that some of the music works and some doesn't. It's as if those who regard the music as all equally good are much the same as Cage's detractors - both groups are saying that "it all sounds the same". There's a very interesting article by Paula Higgins, "The Apotheosis of Josquin des Prez and Other Mythologies of Musical Genius". - strange to see the same process at work at both ends of the history of composition..
This is a small point but I disagree with a point you’ve made in several videos. There is absolutely a connection between how a piece is made and how it sounds. Something being “audible” does not mean that you can analyze correctly in real time.
izzat Steve McCaffery's "Ow's Waif" visible on the shelf behind you? pretty appropriate background detail for a talk at least partially about Cage's developing chance methodologies!
@@samuel_andreyev jeez & furthering the appropriateness of yr bookshelf contents, Gustave Morin's "CLEAN SAILS" appears from behind yr head every so often (the blue spine), a book in which many of the pieces were constructed using "prepared typewriters" (having taken a dremel to the hammers to modify the characters). funnily enough, i just took that book off my shelf yesterday to look at & scan for its inclusion in both my own & bpNichol's bibliographies (the typestract about "wooden Nichols" dedicated to me fitting it into both our "works about or with reference to" sections). fun stuff! i owe you a letter. i'll get there soonish...
I remember when I was perhaps 13 or so, at the beginning of the 70ies, one day I turned on the radio and came right into the middle of a music performance. It consisted of apparently random and disharmonically combined tones from a double bass plus rattling tin cans. After a while it ended. There was a rather long pause of silence, and then the host of the radio program said with a very serious voice something like "We have listened to Opus 7 by Eric Peterson for double bass and tin cans." I thought it was very funny, and I have told this story to many people ever since, throughout my life. I should perhaps add, that five or so years later, I took a course in electronic music where the music we made was as unconventional.
Well, Samuel has altered my opinion of Cage in a positive direction. Like many, even those keenly interested in contemporary music, I have been skeptical of Cage. His piece (I don't recall the exact title) 3:58 or something, where the pianist remains silent for a period of time so the audience can listen to environmental sounds, struck me as simply a fraud. Part of my skepticism regarding Cage derives from my own aesthetic principles that remain in the, by now old fashioned, ideas of narrative or dramatic continuity, as well as the "auteur" principle. Remember that Boulez was sharply critical of Stockhausen's venture into Aleatoric music. So I'm not alone in this concern. Still, I will give an open minded listen to this piece.
Okay, I listened to the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra with an open mind. I did enjoy it and it may be Cage's most beautiful piece based on my limited experience of his music. Let me preface my comments by saying that I come to contemporary music from a particular aesthetic. I respect other ways of creating music but my judgments are based on certain principles which draw heavily on the ideas of Elliott Carter. I understand that Samuel and many others might disagree but this is my principled position. I found this work to be highly pointillistic which Carter believed should be avoided. It lacks a certain linearity which I look for in contemporary music. So, beautiful and worth listening to, yes, but I hope for something a bit different when I listen to contemporary music.
@@machida5114 First, let me say thanks for subscribing to my channel and your kind comments. I truly appreciate it. Second, the linearity I am referring to is the very old and venerable tradition of linking musical events together by linear continuity. It goes back to Cantus Firmus technique in the middle ages. This piece by Cage is, as described by Samuel and evident in the experience, is made up of small cells of music, sometimes a single pitch, which are then presented as a kind of mosaic rather than say a tapestry. Again, this is perfectly valid and in this case works out very well. It's simply that I decided some time ago that rather than just saying, "I like it" or "I don't like it", I would make substantive comments which derive from the aesthetic principles that I adhere to in my own compositions. So I did find this worth listening to but it is not what I find most intriguing or engaging about contemporary music.
John Cage has produced some very accessible compositions. Take, for example, "In a Landscape" (1948)...It is the bridge between Erik Satie and Harold Budd (and Brian Eno)... czcams.com/video/wQeNHAjC6ro/video.html
I agree that Cage compositions can be too open ended for critical consistency. My friends and I had received a lot of flack in my 1st year at music school for this performance interpretation of his Cartridge Music (1960) at UVic in 1993 - here is the youtube czcams.com/video/FK4Y-txonRM/video.html
Great video as always. Also, not a big fan of Cage - he had some interesting ideas at times, silly at times, but absolutely no technique, craftsmanship, musicality, and he certainly did not hear what he was writing, nor did he write what he heard. While that is not always a fatal defect, in the case of Cage, at least for me, the novelty wears off rather quickly.
Yes, this a good work by Cage, but not as good as Atlas. By the way, it's concert (i.e., concertante), not concerto. Also note that the 423 thing is like a serial set, and he is into ordering things and making variations in the order, just like a serialist. Also, 23 is Berg's number. See Iddon's recent book on the concert for a very detailed discussion of the manuscript. But Cage still isn't taken seriously enough for people to put a Cage work in the context of the legacy. Carl Andre told me, there is no doubt Cage is a wise man, but there is some doubt whether he is a great composer--that's the stage people are still at with Cage. He's still a bad boy (and a GAY bad boy!). What music was Cage thinking about when he composed this work (which is really a combination of two works)? Was he thinking about Schoenbergs concerto? Bartok second? Brahms second? Bartoks music for strings and celeste? Also, don't leave out film scores as an influence on Cage. Ferde Grofe? Cage is closer to William Bryant than he is to Schoenberg. As for what Cage said about this work, it is, as Iddon says, a polemic trying to convince you of the way the piece was composed, rather than an accurate description of the way it was actually composed. Cage is a very American composer. He's very influenced by Copland. I remember being at the premiere of Apartment House 1776 and thinking, when does Billy the Kid come on stage? One thing Iddon says in his book is that Cage "cheated" on his own system in order to get the Concert into a "traditional" format. It's interesting that Iddon still isn't sure that all the paper imperfections were incorporated in the work.
How about you listen to the video before writing a long commentary? I interviewed Martin Iddon about his book for my podcast. These are two different works (the Concerto predates the Concert by seveeal years).
I always had a quite ambivalent relationship to Cage's music and philosophy. For example I really like his Imaginary Landscapes, but I always thought his chance pieces and especially 4'33'' are pure batshit.
After he went to chance procedures it was a fraud for him to claim what he was doing was composition. He was a slight composer before then but afterwards he wasn't composing at all. I don't mind people listening to it if they like it but he wasn't much of a composer, more like a salesman.
Well above my head. Perhaps I can't even see the point in this composition and all the explanation in the world doesn't make it any less pointless.. I'd go so far to say that Cage is just amusing himself with a private joke on our behalf. If all Cage's music suddenly evaporated into the air would 99.999% of the population miss it? Sorry Samuel - you've totally lost me. But your manifest enjoyment of this music is fine by me, though I find it strange, it is of no consequence to my own time or needs. Cheers.
What is your favourite Cage piece? Let me know in the comments!
I love Imaginary Landscape 5 czcams.com/video/_oNpZ8yfN7U/video.html. I think his electronic work is underrated.
In high school a few of us were scouring libraries and cut out bins for new musical flavors. We'd try just about anything. Penderecki, Can, Sun Ra, Partch, Varese, Mwandishi, Stockhausen, Braxton and Beefheart were in heavy rotation. A John Cage 8 track tape with a white cover when listened to a friend's room covered w/ tie dyed sheets had a singular kind of narcotic power that was undeniable. The favorite piece was Cartridge Music. From what I've gathered it appears that each performance of Cartridge Music would likely differ significantly from its predecessor. I wouldn't be surprised the same recording would seem to fall flat if listened to now. In that unique context, that particular recording seemed very impactful while on a diet of the most boundary pushing music we could find.
Litany for the Whale
Ophelia
One
Ryoan Ji
I've always enjoyed listening to "Sonatas & Interludes" (especially the John Tilbury rendition) and think much of it is gorgeous, but I'm an even bigger fan of David Tudor's performance of "Variations II" from 1961 (available on an Edition RZ collection titled "Music for Piano"). It's cacophonous and largely atonal, and utterly remarkable for being a performance from the early '60s. It sounds so ahead of its time, and so unconcerned with conventional music in general. Genuinely boundary pushing. I always get excited putting it on.
String Quartet, The Seasons, Seventy-Four, Suite for Toy Piano, Apartment House 1776, Sonatas and Interludes, A Book of Music, Mysterious Adventure, A Room, Amores.
While listening to the actual piece here on CZcams, I decided that, in the spirit of Cage, I should consider the commercial interruptions to be part of the piece.
😂
Based decision
As a Visual Arts teacher in an Australian state school I organised a performance of 4'33" for about 100 students aged 15-16. I ensured that they were not prepared in any way for what they were to experience. It was performed using the original 3 movement times on alto saxophone.
It was followed by a discussion period in which students gave their opinions. Both myself and the saxophonist were amazed at the acceptance shown by the students.
The senior (in her own eyes at least) Music teacher, who did not attend, was the only dissenting voice.
If I was your student I wouldn't be happy about you stealing my time.
"Not all Cage's pieces are equal, some are brilliant, some are not". But that stands for literally every (great) composer.
Not for every composer, name 3 pieces by Bach that are not brilliant...
@@thegoatjesus6133 TBH I find some of his church cantatas and some of his lesser-known keyboard works a bit tedious. His best-known works, and many lesser-known are, of course, brilliant. Besides, I don't think that it's a requirement for any composer to be infallible.
I discovered Cage's music back in high school in the late '60s, and found it an inspiration. Then a few years later as an undergrad at York University, Toronto, I performed the bassoon part in the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra. My teacher Jim Tenney (who studied with Cage) may have conducted. I'd long since forgotten the impossible bassoon run at the end!
Thanks for this reminder of why Cage still matters Samuel.
Incredible work, as always. I loved what you had to say about “what happens when you try, and fail- but you really try.” A lot of my favorite composers do this type of thing, but Gil Evans particularly comes to mind. (Congratulations on nearing the 50K mark!)
Not trying to make anyone blush, but Brian Krock's work on the Big Heart Machine and Liddle recordings is mindblowingly ingenious, getting props from him is a good indicator that you are swift to behold.
I need to listen to more of John Cage.
This is so well-done.
Thank you Samuel for delivering another banger.
Best youtube channel.
I became a fan of Cage after hearing a record by the Ives Ensemble that had Ten, Ryoanji, and Fourteen on it. Then I got the Boris Berman CD of Cage's Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano and I thought it was seriously fantastic. His prepared piano works are probably my favorites by him. It sucks that he's often thought of as a novelty act within the pantheon of 20th century classical music. He really deserves more recognition for the truly beautiful pieces that he often came up with, so props to you for giving him some!
I actually hadn't heard this particular piece before but I'll definitely check out a couple performances. Your videos never fail to introduce me to cool stuff!
So glad to hear it.
Speaking of cage, The thing I like about Child of Tree is that there is no barrier to musical intention/dramatic expression. You choose your sounds, do the I Ching rolls (maybe with a little accounting for taste) and you can simply express what you want to without fear of inadequate technique, missing notes etc. I have never felt more free and liberated in my life than when performing that work.
Thanks for introducing me to this fascinating work! I recently listened to a series of radio conversations between Cage and Morton Feldman, and I've become fascinated with them and their contemporaries (Earle Brown, Christian Wolff, etc.). What a wonderful return to these analysis videos!
One of the greatest musical philosophers. This is my favorite work of Cage too.
I went into contemporary music by listening to Cage's "Three Dances for two Prepared Pianos". Since then, I have been a fan of contemporary music for over 40 years.
The second work I listened to was Cage's "Credo in Us".
I love the "Three Dances" and performed them in concert in 2002.
The first dance is such a banger, it has such wonderful rhythms.
Great video. Cage wrote such a ridiculously varied collection music there is something for every listener whether it's In A Landscape or The Ten Thousand Things. One of my absolute favourite composers, such a shame his output is often reduced to meme-y pieces like 4'33 or the prepared piano interludes.
I know right? He has a vast catalogue of gorgeous and very digestible music, even for the layman...
@@ClaudeWernerMusic i agree
I agree, though the prepared piano interludes are beautiful and, I believe, the first place to send a Cage neophyte.
When I hear the word “beautiful” and the name John Cage I will always immediately think of “In a Landscape” . Performed on piano or harp it doesn’t matter , it is a stunning piece that I never get tired of hearing .
I quite like most prepared piano works, and Cage's is definitely a forerunner. Simply the idea of changing how we interact with any instrument is a very creative process, how can we not love it?
Hard for me to pick a favorite piece, but a performance of Ryoanji I attended in 2012 stands out for me. A truly life-changing experience. Half of me is sad that there is no recording of the performance, but the other half feels like maybe that's for the best.
But, if I HAD to choose a piece as my favorite, I think I'd choose Cheap Imitation.
I love Cage's 4 '33 " . Very relaxing.
This is a most wonderful discussion of John Cage. It presents the methods, techniques, procedures, designs and instructions with sincerity that shows a deep, intimate, understanding of Cage. I found myself thinking, "what a good way to explain this or that thing." Tonight, I think I am in love with the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra.
I love John Cage's music and I hate how he's been labeled as "more of a philosopher than a composer" by so many people. I'm glad you've made a video about him hopefully more people get into his music beyond knowing he's the guy who wrote 4'33".
Edit:
I want to add that this was an excellent video and I agree with your conclusion on Cage. He was amazing, but like any composer some of his pieces are better than others. I'd also recommend to anyone who's curious about Cages music to read "The Music of John Cage" by James Pritchett, it's an excellent book that takes an in depth look at his music throughout his lifetime.
Thanks for a great video. I really like the third movement of "Three Dances".
Thank you for the video, Samuel. I'm a big fan of John Cage and a lot of 20th century composers like Feldman, Earle Browne, Charles Ives etc but have no background or education in music theory or anything like that so your analysis videos are always a great resource for learning 🙏🙏
Thank you! Glad to hear that.
That was a very fair assessment of that piece. I like it too.
My favourite Cage piece? Haikai (1986). I've performed a number of his works over the years, and met the man on several memorable occasions. He's been a major influence on my compositions and musical concepts, but Haikai is the only work of his I've performed the premiere of. Evergreen Club Gamelan gave the inaugural performance in 1987. And I've played the suling part in numerous concerts since.
The first rec. can be heard on this album, along with major Tenney and Tremblay works. czcams.com/video/k4pkA24zgnk/video.html
John Cage is one of the very few composers who I genuinely believe values sound and music completely equally.
@teacake
John Cage hated a lot of improvised music and very much detested a lot of jazz
The production quality and editing keep getting better and better. Nice work
loved it😍 must give it a listen again🎶
You're doing god's work Sammy! You are like the shadow of a great rock in weary land.
subscribed liked commented
Credo in US. Suite for Toy Piano (Orchestration)
I like the Sonatas and Interludes for prepared piano.
Later "compositions" are more conversational pieces than actual works to be listened to.
I agree . Great ideas and he brought eastern ideas to Western music ! So happy to see this. I hope youget a million subscribers and a teaching position at Yale !
past works can gather quickly covering floors at first then rising rising to block windows leaving future light very little room to exit
Awesome analysis, thanks Samuel. I'd argue that one of the upshots of Cage's music is that performances can't be said to succeed or fail, though it's often easy to tell a competent, thoughtful rendition from a lazy one. Either way, the point is the engagement and interaction of the composer and performer(s). It's an attitude that inspired me to write a lot more than I did, and that gave me confidence to take my failures seriously. It's that kind of encouraging outlook that makes Cage one of my musical heroes. If nothing else, he's ecumenical in a way that invites creativity from everyone involved.
Thank you for posting! Even though it may not be daily or even once a week, at least a couple times a month is super nice. Love your channel.
Thank you Isaac. I’m posting new videos every other Wednesday.
I thought for sure you were going to say In A Landscape is his most beautiful piece. My favorites are In A Landscape, Ophelia, of course Third Construction, Credo in US, and The City Wears A Slouch Hat.
Truly excellent as always Samuel
You deserve way more subscribers!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, love listening to your talks. (from someone who has zero musical training)
Some of my favorite early works by Cage include Living Room Music, Sonatas and Interludes and Quartets I-VIII while some of my favorite later works of his include his Number Pieces
Excellent video! So happy to see Cage make an appearance on this channel. But for my money, his most BEAUTIFUL work is either Dream or String Quartet in Four Parts (another work that makes use of rhythmic structure (perhaps even more so: all palindromes) and harmonic gamuts).
Fascinating as always! Thank you. I look forward to listening to this piece for the first time. Do you recommend a particular recording?
the Callithumpian Consort recording is excellent and is available on Spotify, etc.
I think anything Cage did was mindblowing, at least anything after 4'33". It is not about the particular piece, it is about a new general understanding of what music could be. Whether you find the individual piece interesting or not doesn't really matter, that's just preference. You propably chose this particular piece because it still bears some remainders of conventional music (?) It certainly is less 'radical' than concert for piano and orchestra, atlas ecliptalis, appartment house etc..
Your videos are amazing and unique. Keep up great work!
Great video as always
"Setting aside these amounts of time" deserves reflection in the context of the larger development of Cage's work. The Concerto is "early" (given how long he was composing). Later he is quite direct about his use of "time bracket notation" to express durational elements in a composition. This was already an element in his thinking when he composed the Concerto--and it is visible in the score when one examines, as you did, the "barred" structure in relation to the phrases. It is, quite literally, a "setting aside" of specific amount of time within the whole, which apportionments have a direct (ratio) relation to the entire piece.
Really great videos. I'm glad I stumbled across your channel. Many thanks!
Thanks, and welcome
Cage and I were on the same page when it came to mushrooms.
Dream
In a Landscape
Six Melodies
Suite for Toy Piano
Sonatas and Interludes
Experiences
Three Dances for 2 prepared pianos
Music for Marcel Duchamp
The City Wears a Slouch Hat…to name a few.
I prefer his work from 1942-48 but I know it all. Met him on a number occasions. I also spent time with David Tudor over the course of 10 years. Very important person in my youth.
Exactly, thanks
15:00 What is that chord? It's a complicated chord. Man, that just saves a lot of time. Thanks for this.
Keep making great vids 🙏🙏👏
Oh hey @samuel, regarding the IChing, you oughta check out this thing called Timewave Zero, I think you’d get a kick out of it lol 😂 it’s like a Data Music piece already written in stone haha
4'33 is Cage's most beautiful piece.
SO Aaron Copland! Bright lights, big city. What a hayseed Cage was. He closer to William Cullen Bryant than he is to Schoenberg. So midwest.
"In a Landscape" is the most beautiful of Cage and one of the most beatiful pieces ever composed. Take a listen:
czcams.com/video/wQeNHAjC6ro/video.html
Yes! I was getting ready to post this but you beat me to it. Thank you. Peter Maxwell Davies' "Farewell to Stromness" is another example from another difficult composer. The piece transfers well to other instruments.
@@grahamcombs4752 I first heard Fareeell to Stromness the other day and Cage's piece immediately came to mind
@@written12 I wonder if it is not the connection both pieces have to a place. Peter Maxwell Davies grew up in Stromness; a small town in Scotland. There's even a video of the place set to the music. I believe this is what the English also called pastoral music. It was beautiful and calming and grew out of the horrors of World War I and popular between the wars. After World War II, Gerald Finzi also composed a hallmark piece of this kind, Eclogues for Piano and Strings. In America after the WWII , the Pentagon and Veterans Administration discovered that quiet, "easy listening" music was beneficial to soldiers with what they called "shell shock" and is now known as Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, PTSD. The baby boomers looked down on this music but we did not understand what our fathers had gone through. But, all of this music is timeless and universal. I also recommend Ralph Vaughan Williams' The Lark Ascending. Thank you for your note. We both came to a same connection.
Rozart Mix is probably my favorite however certain realizations of Cartridge Music and Atlas Elclipticalis/Winter Music are also favorites, there are many. It is a mistake to dismiss Cage as a composer. Cage works are recorded extensively today as are most of the so-called "New York School". Morton Feldman works are performed and recorded extensively as well.
I remembered that "Rozart Mix" was included in the third LP record I bought. More than 40 years ago.
I am so grateful for this video! Like many one-time students of music theory, I was originally paralyzed by expectations regarding the Mid-Century avant-garde in both classical music and the visual arts. I avoided embracing our professors' passions (they were all dodecaphones to the un-tonal end), or rolling my eyes their direction and instead hopped on the rock & pop bandwagon, which was the reason to be alive for every fellow (but-late-for-the-party) hippy.
Looking back I cannot believe that no other genre, nothing even sorta in-between, like Jazz, R & B, Disco, Minimalism, Neo-Romanticism, Late Neo-Classicism or Tonal Modernism were tolerated! I actually loved Samuel Barber, Sibelius and Stravinsky like saints.
Oddly it didn't bother me to not be cool since unlike everyone else, I totally loved counterpoint. I still believe that a serious musician must possess a mastery of the protons and electrons of counterpoint & harmony, at least, and ideally should also study composition, history, orchestration, performance, electronica, comparative world folk and musicology.
But John Cage? Karlheinz Stockhausen? Luigi Nono?
Helllppp!!, Samuel! I don't think I'm truly a provincial bumpkin, but I cannot exactly relax during 4'33" like a duck swims up and nests in a tree.
Ha ha, brilliant comment, thank you :)
So many but.... The Prepared Piano pieces, the percussion Constructions, and HPSCHD, to name just 3!
You were supposed to react and analyze kurtag stele 🥺🙁
Back in the 60's I bought Cage's book Silence and regarded him as a performance artist
like the action painters or DADA. His 4.33 minutes of silence is equivalent
to the slashed virgin canvas of Lucio Fontana.
Thanks Samuel, enlightening as usual. Je préfère ne jamais avoir de préférence parmi les oeuvres ; il y en a que j'aime beaucoup et d'autres moins, certaines pas du tout. Pour Cage, j'aime beaucoup ONEViolin - je possède un CD de cette œuvre par Christina Fong.
❤Dream
23! Berg's number!
I liked your comment that Cage shouldn't e treated as a guru, that some of the music works and some doesn't. It's as if those who regard the music as all equally good are much the same as Cage's detractors - both groups are saying that "it all sounds the same". There's a very interesting article by Paula Higgins, "The Apotheosis of Josquin des Prez and Other Mythologies of Musical Genius". - strange to see the same process at work at both ends of the history of composition..
09:47 to 10:35 So true.
This is a small point but I disagree with a point you’ve made in several videos. There is absolutely a connection between how a piece is made and how it sounds. Something being “audible” does not mean that you can analyze correctly in real time.
izzat Steve McCaffery's "Ow's Waif" visible on the shelf behind you? pretty appropriate background detail for a talk at least partially about Cage's developing chance methodologies!
ha ha, yes it is. Hi res video shows all the details..
@@samuel_andreyev jeez & furthering the appropriateness of yr bookshelf contents, Gustave Morin's "CLEAN SAILS" appears from behind yr head every so often (the blue spine), a book in which many of the pieces were constructed using "prepared typewriters" (having taken a dremel to the hammers to modify the characters). funnily enough, i just took that book off my shelf yesterday to look at & scan for its inclusion in both my own & bpNichol's bibliographies (the typestract about "wooden Nichols" dedicated to me fitting it into both our "works about or with reference to" sections). fun stuff!
i owe you a letter. i'll get there soonish...
Great stuff, keep it up! We would love to add your music on our music blog!
thanks, that would be great!
roaratorio
In a style called T. Reximalism!
What's the best place to listen to his pieces? Maybe a website or particular channel or Playlist you recommend?
I remember when I was perhaps 13 or so, at the beginning of the 70ies, one day I turned on the radio and came right into the middle of a music performance. It consisted of apparently random and disharmonically combined tones from a double bass plus rattling tin cans. After a while it ended. There was a rather long pause of silence, and then the host of the radio program said with a very serious voice something like "We have listened to Opus 7 by Eric Peterson for double bass and tin cans." I thought it was very funny, and I have told this story to many people ever since, throughout my life. I should perhaps add, that five or so years later, I took a course in electronic music where the music we made was as unconventional.
I want to hear that piece!!
@@samuel_andreyev Yeah, me too! But I don't think I would be able to find it.
Well, Samuel has altered my opinion of Cage in a positive direction. Like many, even those keenly interested in contemporary music, I have been skeptical of Cage. His piece (I don't recall the exact title) 3:58 or something, where the pianist remains silent for a period of time so the audience can listen to environmental sounds, struck me as simply a fraud. Part of my skepticism regarding Cage derives from my own aesthetic principles that remain in the, by now old fashioned, ideas of narrative or dramatic continuity, as well as the "auteur" principle. Remember that Boulez was sharply critical of Stockhausen's venture into Aleatoric music. So I'm not alone in this concern.
Still, I will give an open minded listen to this piece.
The piece is named Four Thirty-Three (I write it out so CZcams doesn’t turn it into an index point to this video as happened with your guess).
@@richardjarrell3585 Right. Thanks.
Okay, I listened to the Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra with an open mind. I did enjoy it and it may be Cage's most beautiful piece based on my limited experience of his music.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I come to contemporary music from a particular aesthetic. I respect other ways of creating music but my judgments are based on certain principles which draw heavily on the ideas of Elliott Carter. I understand that Samuel and many others might disagree but this is my principled position.
I found this work to be highly pointillistic which Carter believed should be avoided. It lacks a certain linearity which I look for in contemporary music.
So, beautiful and worth listening to, yes, but I hope for something a bit different when I listen to contemporary music.
@@polystrophicmusic what is a certain linearity which you look for in contemporary music?
@@machida5114 First, let me say thanks for subscribing to my channel and your kind comments. I truly appreciate it.
Second, the linearity I am referring to is the very old and venerable tradition of linking musical events together by linear continuity. It goes back to Cantus Firmus technique in the middle ages. This piece by Cage is, as described by Samuel and evident in the experience, is made up of small cells of music, sometimes a single pitch, which are then presented as a kind of mosaic rather than say a tapestry. Again, this is perfectly valid and in this case works out very well. It's simply that I decided some time ago that rather than just saying, "I like it" or "I don't like it", I would make substantive comments which derive from the aesthetic principles that I adhere to in my own compositions.
So I did find this worth listening to but it is not what I find most intriguing or engaging about contemporary music.
Great video! But, somehow, I miss your colder, non-excited, (not personally involved) tone of previous videos :)
It's 4'33''
Depends on what the audience had for dinner.
@@peewee678 That was a long time I've laugheed this good at a YT comment.
John Cage has produced some very accessible compositions. Take, for example, "In a Landscape" (1948)...It is the bridge between Erik Satie and Harold Budd (and Brian Eno)... czcams.com/video/wQeNHAjC6ro/video.html
I agree that Cage compositions can be too open ended for critical consistency. My friends and I had received a lot of flack in my 1st year at music school for this performance interpretation of his Cartridge Music (1960) at UVic in 1993 - here is the youtube czcams.com/video/FK4Y-txonRM/video.html
Cage's best piece is, without question, Third Construction.
czcams.com/video/C_ZHd-ReIUg/video.html
Great video as always. Also, not a big fan of Cage - he had some interesting ideas at times, silly at times, but absolutely no technique, craftsmanship, musicality, and he certainly did not hear what he was writing, nor did he write what he heard. While that is not always a fatal defect, in the case of Cage, at least for me, the novelty wears off rather quickly.
You were close, my response to Cage is "I like his ideas, but I've only listened to 4'33"
Yes, this a good work by Cage, but not as good as Atlas. By the way, it's concert (i.e., concertante), not concerto. Also note that the 423 thing is like a serial set, and he is into ordering things and making variations in the order, just like a serialist. Also, 23 is Berg's number.
See Iddon's recent book on the concert for a very detailed discussion of the manuscript. But Cage still isn't taken seriously enough for people to put a Cage work in the context of the legacy. Carl Andre told me, there is no doubt Cage is a wise man, but there is some doubt whether he is a great composer--that's the stage people are still at with Cage. He's still a bad boy (and a GAY bad boy!). What music was Cage thinking about when he composed this work (which is really a combination of two works)? Was he thinking about Schoenbergs concerto? Bartok second? Brahms second? Bartoks music for strings and celeste? Also, don't leave out film scores as an influence on Cage. Ferde Grofe? Cage is closer to William Bryant than he is to Schoenberg.
As for what Cage said about this work, it is, as Iddon says, a polemic trying to convince you of the way the piece was composed, rather than an accurate description of the way it was actually composed.
Cage is a very American composer. He's very influenced by Copland. I remember being at the premiere of Apartment House 1776 and thinking, when does Billy the Kid come on stage?
One thing Iddon says in his book is that Cage "cheated" on his own system in order to get the Concert into a "traditional" format. It's interesting that Iddon still isn't sure that all the paper imperfections were incorporated in the work.
How about you listen to the video before writing a long commentary? I interviewed Martin Iddon about his book for my podcast. These are two different works (the Concerto predates the Concert by seveeal years).
when I hear monads categories I wonder if im in a math class 🤔🤔
I always had a quite ambivalent relationship to Cage's music and philosophy. For example I really like his Imaginary Landscapes, but I always thought his chance pieces and especially 4'33'' are pure batshit.
Cage's music is suitable as background for "Twilight Zone" type movies and TV shows..
After he went to chance procedures it was a fraud for him to claim what he was doing was composition. He was a slight composer before then but afterwards he wasn't composing at all. I don't mind people listening to it if they like it but he wasn't much of a composer, more like a salesman.
When I first met Cage, he made anti-Christ comments and was unkind, selfish, and a narcissist. At best he was an arrogant fool.
Well above my head. Perhaps I can't even see the point in this composition and all the explanation in the world doesn't make it any less pointless.. I'd go so far to say that Cage is just amusing himself with a private joke on our behalf. If all Cage's music suddenly evaporated into the air would 99.999% of the population miss it? Sorry Samuel - you've totally lost me. But your manifest enjoyment of this music is fine by me, though I find it strange, it is of no consequence to my own time or needs. Cheers.