The business is at FM, and the passion is at TFL. I have been wondering many times what the OW communityv would be without 3rd party companies, and even if there would be any community at all. TFL do a hundred times more to promote OW than FM do, honestly. I really hope one day they will open their eyes, and recognize 3rd party companies as valuable partners.
@Sylvain Chaussard yes, to those companies helping the smaller or showing recognition that a competitor has a good product means they dont value their own product. In some instances (more seen in retail or fast food) companies merge for the better and just settle out for the long ran dividends.
@Sylvain Chaussard I'm not sure. In your example, there's only busyness on both sides. When someone brings or maintain passion to a product, it is a great plus for the manufacturer.
Good insight and well said! As a European rider, we are at even more of a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with FM. From even purchasing possibilities and shipping timeframes and extremely exorbitant shipping costs! Plus being held hostage by FM if ever we need a repair as there are no repair shops in our part of the World and sending our boards back to the US would be an economic disaster! However, even with all these luxury (we are privileged to be able to afford such machines) problems, when you press that button and jump on your board it makes it all worthwhile! It is that feeling that FM are living on but as you say when there is another manufacturer that gives us that same feeling with the right to repair and listens to their riders FM might struggle in the future to hold on to our forced loyalty when they lose that monopoly advantage!🙏🏾
What a perfect video. Summarized so well. A lot of this wouldn't bother me nearly as much if the XR wasn't being discontinued. Being forced onto a GT if I kill my XR is easily what frustrates me the most. Especially when there won't be the same wealth of third-party accessories for the GT for the first few months or more of it's lifespan. I truly hope FM see's this. Then again, even if they do. I don't see them making any adjustments to the hub anytime soon.
Thanks for the thoughts. Your videos helped me really learn the OW before I made the purchase. My biggest take away from the last two months: glad I bought my pint when I did! (April 2021)
For me professor you really summed it up, the one wheel community is team human all the Way, FM on the other hand is just a model of the wrong corporate struggle, the zero sum game so many play. I get the feeling they’re trying to follow an Apple model, but missed the whole point of how Apple plays the game. Right now I’m really blown away by how many people are upset that we were making comments about this at all. The fact that they didn’t reach out to anyone in the one wheel community whatsoever during the design process speaks volumes. And look at the way they did Tyler, he basically sees the GT jumps on it, rides it, then jumps off. There’s no time to really think about any of the design changes. I love my XR, well both of them, and will hold off getting a GT until I ride it. As always thank you for a well presented video. Aoxomoxoa
You do realize that going to the 6.5 hub only reduces the sidewall by only 0.25 inches. While its possible someone may notice, I don't think anyone really will be able to tell. Th side wall is going from 2.5 inches to 2.25 inches. However it's still a super sh!t move by FM to go to a nonstandard hub size. Great video.
Joe, I think you're right. By my back-of-the-napkin calculations, the slightly larger hub reduces volume by about one percent. I'm skeptical that even the most elite riders could discern that small a difference. Even if they could, I'd have to think that a small change in air pressure could compensate adequately for such a small volume change. Agreed, too, on the nuisance of a hub size that effectively cuts out third-party suppliers. That didn't stop either of us from getting in line for a GT, did it? 🤣
I was an early investor in Future motion and own two boards. I've ask them from day-one to make a software option that would make the board start beeping when one reaches top speed and push-back. A beep that would tell you that you are about to eat the pavement. My Segway beeps when I hit top speed and I have never nose dived. Did future motion care? Hell no, now they're getting sued. Future Motion started a big campaign to blame the users of the board for nose dives. When you don't want to take responsibility for something you blame others. I also told then if they would move their operation to Florida or Taxes they could cut the price of the board in half and sell to a wider demographic but again they didn't care. Onewheel GT $2,200 WTF man. What kidd can afford that????? Great video Thanks
True about the bigger hub meaning less cushioning, but it also means more torque and less torque lag through the tire, end these are good things, so it's a trade off. Pluses and minuses. I personally think they pluses outweigh the possibility of a hub fracture (though I have ordered a GT so I've got skin in the game!)
I believe that the Centre of Gravity argument is a red herring. Our CoG is about at our waist and 1cm is maybe 1% difference. I paddle board and people think a recessed deck makes a difference but it doesn't. The difference is the width (30 inches v 25 is 20% difference). Funnily enough many people ignore 'secondary stability' which is the rail dipping in the water and getting bouyancy, which is why thick rails help (SIC and others really get this). And one could argue that secondary Onewheel stability comes from to and fro body motion, which is helped by concave footpads. So maybe FM are doing the right things?
Good point about torque. I know a lot of people don’t mind or even prefer a shorter sidewall (for example, Growler riders). But for me, when I ride a Pint tire I don’t notice a lack of torque lag, I mainly notice the comfort and traction.
@@simonbowden8408 you lost me in the second half! I don’t really SUP but I feel like if you stacked blocks on top of it and stood on those blocks it would make it way harder to balance
@@jameshite4820 seems hard to believe that FM make that much money out of tyres? I know that people think FM are only after money, but I think they are actually concerned mainly about safety, hence most of the GT changes. FM have a difficult balancing act. The young skaters who do all the tricks want no pushback etc, while most customers are actually 30+ and like the glide but don't want to nosedive. Hence the GT. Lots of torque and control, but likely quite a bit of pushback. And much fewer nosedives due to less chance of low battery fail. FM are copying the trend in EUCs I think. Which is huge battery and big torque. But avoiding the 50mph speed, as FM are US based and face law suits.
Great Video Jake. Love the Honesty. I have a dream that FM will work with a few 3rd party companies for a new board. Have FM make the Board, FL the footpads bumpers etc.. and have Chi handle the battery. Oh man that would be a dream rock solid product!
Last year, FM freaked out that TFL and FM were both sponsoring DirtSurferz. They said, “you can’t have Nike and Adidas sponsoring the same event.” We were like bruh if you’re Nike we make shoelaces. So yeah I agree a collabo would be sweet but I don’t think FM sees it that way… I mean, you wouldn’t have Nike using fabrics from Goretex or rubber soles from Continental or reflective strips from 3M would you???
@@JakeLeary This has nothing to do with your point...as I agree with it. However, under Nike, Converse has often offered Goretex shoes. And also Cordura shoes. They're not actual Nike's, sure. But....ya know. Again, no real point here. FM's treatment of vendors has always been very silly and unreasonable.
You are a genius Jake. FM should hire you guys as I feel The Float Life are experts and would make the One Wheel design the best with your feedback. Future Motion is so missing out on how awesome their boards can really be with the proper feedback and guidance for design from true OW riders and enthusiast.
Excellent points. Personally I think the added thickness of the board is gonna cause more issues for more people (due to reduced clearance) than the bigger hub. Would love to hear your ideas on where they could have placed the additional batteries. Can’t wait for new smaller battery technology to arrive - that should allow for some huge improvements in board design/ performance.
Agree with all points 🤘🏾 About the larger hub: I don’t see Hoosier or any other tire company (other than Vega) going out of their way to making specific tire for the GT unless they feel it to be profitable for them. I’ll admit however that this remains to be seen. We really won’t know how the tire companies will respond until GT’s release but I just don’t see owners sending the GT back to FM every time there’s a flat, (or tires companies clamoring to produce a single tire mod in the middle of a pandemic).
It would be exclusively for onewheel, a tiny market versus the big outlay to create a new mould size. Burris have already said to those asking them, that they won't be making one any time soon. £400 it would cost a uk ride to send their board for a tyre change. I can get 5 FF T2 off Hoosier for that
Pro riders break rims, the rest of us break bones. 🤣 The screen shot of you bonking up three stairs and compressing the whole tire to the rim illustrates your point perfectly, really awesome OW vid all thru. However, that bonk also shows how much of a better rider you are than just about all of FM’s customers. During Lazors 30min GT trail ride video he says the GT was designed to dramatically improve performance for the average customer. So, if the GT board lacks for pros but not for joes, that might actually increase the niche for 3rd parties to design and sell new products to everyone. Which is exactly what TFL did 3-4 years ago with it’s first product, float plates. The VESC programming seems promising too, viable competition is getting close. Bonking like that is so far out of the regular customer’s ability, the GT might have been designed to give regular customers a greater riding experience.
Excellent points! But I do think that the bigger rim and taller platform will mean less stability and comfort for the average rider. And I’ve actually never chipped or dinged a rim on a bonk, but just riding rocky trails I dinged them all the time before Life Savers
@@JakeLeary I think you nailed it, it's not designed for pros. They just split the difference on what to improve and on some key points for experts and guys like... I was gin a say us but I'm a 40 year old lame ass with simple stop turned on... They went with range first, everything else second. Not terrible but not what the die hard wanted. I don't understand why FM doesn't do more with the community. Like, make the debate friendly, welcome feedback and take questions. Agree to disagree on stuff, but this silence and lack of support really seems out of place from how the community is. Also I love the calm and logic take on this, the title is a bit click baity but the video comes across very level headed.
I feel like the onewheel community is stuck in the past tbh still trying to convince themselves that the xr is superior to the pint, pint x and gt when in reality its dinosaur tech. Just wait til the GT comes out its going to slap an XR in literally every way. Tricks and street choose pint x, offroad and competition choose GT it makes perfect sense that they discontinued something as aging and outdated as the XR.
Many of us have been saying for years that it’s only a matter of time before someone gets the firmware/software on a knock-off just right to cause a cascade of dedicated riders and potential new riders to jump ship from FM. I’m sure the GT will be fun, and bring a lot to the table. But all the flaws and logic behind them you mentioned are big deals. I’m hoping someone figures out how to tune a 3rd-party board jusssst right. While I’m not a big fan of wider board setups, they do at least have options better than the modern boards for battery storage. And extra half-Inch to inch could go a long way for torque and range. The PCBs for the 3rd party boards are also tiny compared to the FM controllers. Plenty of room for extra batteries and better weight-balancing.
Admittedly the larger diameter hub may be going in the wrong direction but it is only 1/4" difference in the area that you are describing. In fact, that makes the side wall the same as the Pint sidewall height relative to the rim. Good followup points though.
Excellent work Jake. Your points are very well thought out and explained, I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad idea for FM to push back the launch slightly to look at maybe re evaluating some of these design choices, and gather some input from knowledgeable riders.
Jake, I would love to see you do a video of a list of all the things you wish would have been on a new board. You know one thing for sure FM won't steal any of your ideas! I love the digital board sport and will not be surprised when we will have a legit competitor to the FM OW sooner than later. Let's get a list going somewhere of all the things we want to see in a new board... EUC's are sooooo far ahead tech wise and getting better every few months because there are several companies competing for business.
Good points and well presented. I'm a brand new rider and was wondering why the board wasn't lower to the ground for more stability. I felt like I was balancing on a bowling ball. I love the product, very innovative, but I get your points. I wonder if the hub was made larger to accommodate the larger motor. Also the first time I experienced push back, it almost caused me to panic and lose it. Wish we could dial in when it kicks in. And its just a matter of time before competitors reverse engineer the Onewheel with improved tweaks and offer it for less. That's probably why all the secrecy is what I'm guessing. I'm glad to support a U.S. based company that manufactures stateside.
Definitely some good thoughts. As someone who has not yet riden a onewheel but has followed onewheel's journey for years I don't think I will notice any of these flaws when I purchase a GT because I have no comparison. I suppose I am one of the lucky ones
You just killed my day. I wanted XR for a long time. Tonight, I went through my things and decided to sell all not so important things and finally get one wheel. I went to their website. I’ve noticed there’s a new one. Huge range. The hell. Superb. And then I watched this. XR discontinued. GT is basically worse. Company is shite. Damn.
Worse for me is not necessarily worse for you. If you just want speed and range then get the GT. If not then get a great deal on a used XR, lots of low miles XRs out there for around $1000
Are any riders out there able to power slide them? Especially on dirt. If so, can someone do a tutorial. I would think the type surface would be the key to start. Then once a rider gets used to doing it, they could keep pushing the boundaries. I would be doing it if I was younger I believe. 69 and still having fun.
Yes smaller hubs and bigger tire sidewalls can improve suspension action of the Onewheel but no-one makes smaller tires for smaller hubs, and FM has locked themselves in to the new tire/hub size. This will improve with time as the tire vendors make tires for this new size. Before you know it we will be rolling on 20's with spinners. If the GT tire wheel combo has the same tire diameter then it may be easy to do a hub swap if the motor which appears to be the same on all FM devices. Put up some number facts please. Love the honesty you present to FM about the relationship we have with them. An area they have misrepresented is the top speed with the new form factors Pint and soon GT they are not able to hit the advertised top speed without putting oneself at risk by fighting pushback, the XR would start a milder but increasing level of pushback at 15-16 mph. Pushback is meant to be a safety mechanism that unfortunately kicks in way before the average cruising speed and top speed of FM's platform of devices. This also may be a result of only having in house testers rather than hitting a range of users in the real world that should include pro riders on down to the family that one wheels. A suggestion for FM you have the software in place use the diagnostics to include real world stats, like Tesla does. You can see average speeds, top speeds and terrain with as much other data that is collectible. Between the users phone and the devices sensors there is no limit. The one wheel has become a cult icon device and should stay that way. Nice commentary Jake keep up the great content.
Here’s the thing, speed controller PID algorithms have already been figured out. You don’t even need to design the software, it’s already there. The thing that future motion did very well is figuring out that sweet spot in what makes this board operate so smoothly. It’s not really IF it can be copied, it’s when. And I have a strong feeling that once it’s figured out it will be completely open source. Here’s hoping FM decides to stick around by supporting third parties, because despite all the negativity, no one really wants to see them go.
FM needs to realize that they have an absolute gem of a product, but they simply do not have the staffing, facilities, or capacity to manage everything themselves. The repairs, production, R&D, marketing…they need to allow third party repair shops.
I'm so scared to order. I got burned by my pint. When I first ordered, i didnt know it was pretty much crowdfunded. And when it finally arrived(4 months late) The mileage was laughable. FM is very sneaky.
Really good point about the bigger hub being an issue. I can't remembering hearing that the tire size itself was a tire supply issue so hopefully this reinforces that TFL have something in the works
Yea, I'm already a little bummed out about my GT. Don't feel bad at all for my two friends who bought an XR just weeks before the GT announcement. I don't like the GTs tire profile, I don't like that future motion is pushing out 3rd party companies, and to be honest I like my XRs ride more...
As much as I would love for fm to listen and work with us it’s kinda awesome to have the opportunity to expand on their products to build our dream boards. Suspension kits, wtf, growler and tail rails. In a way I enjoy the challenge. Whatever problems the gt board has this community will fix it. Keep up the good work dude!
Everything said here was pure fact. And just as you said when another company is able to create a similar device everyone will hop ship and go to a more customer friendly team.
So I just bought the GT a couple of weeks ago. Because of the cold and snow I’ve only put like 70 miles on it. Because I would be at four times that if it was summer. I love this thing. So much. That being said as a newbie rider, I agree we should support FM to an extent because they created probably the most fun thing I’ve ever bought in my entire life. On the other side, the hardware is lacking. Like you said it’s too thick and they could just make it wider so your damn feet can actually fit on it. And my lord the two sensor design is so dumb. I know they hafta do it probably for safety etc but I already ordered a Surestart pro because it sucks SO much when it won’t activate. There are definitely quibbles. But it’s an amazing product. They really need to embrace the community and get input from pro and casual riders for their next product.
Honestly i would just want them to put in the work for their own low profile suspension system that doesn't stick up a full foot above the wheel like the current 3rd party options.
Look man, I'm all for this "Advocating" for the community and how the company should do better... But this video is missing the larger picture. FM dose not care about the community; they would be doing all the things you mentioned, if they did. They would not have designed a board with a proprietary hub size for a tire only they sell, and keep installing more proprietary integration tech into their components to make mods, additions and cross compatibility nearly impossible. In the end, I got my board for fun and what it can offer me.... I did that knowing their customer service is the worst in any modern company, all the while striving to become more and more like Apple and the iPhones crazy software/hardware handshaking tech. You got the ball, you just forgetting who is pitching it to you... they don't care. its all money.
Great video Jake! I agree on all points. I have a GT on order, and I’m excited for it- but I have a nagging feeling that I’ll continue to choose my CBXR XR with a TrailPro for much of my trail riding. Here’s hoping the pros outweigh the cons 🤙
The reason future motion doesn't have any competition is because they have a million patents and basically own the form factor, the only reason boards like the trotter exist is because they're shipped from china, this allows fm to rest on their laurels ._.
Arduino is community freeware ide. Onewheels ARE arduino mega boards the are printed pcb by one wheel, literally earlier versions pre v1 were built using the mega.. arduino should sue Fm.. Fm also stole this idea from others
Good info. But we all know how stiff of sidewalls fm loves having on thoer boards from the factory. And as we know there is only 2 options of tire for the gt. They will probably be rock hard tires. I'm pretty confident that the busted rim in the video had a Hoosier or burris on it when it got busted vs the hockey puck it originally came with
you're spot on bro. The future motion people suck ass. They increased the hub size so we can't use go-kart tires. they didn't listen to any riders. This GT is a fail and future motion would be nothing without craft and ride and others helping us modify our wheels. I have seen these clown at events and they are very unfriendly and arrogant. way to cool to talk to the fans.. I ride around 10-12 psi. I don't think the GT will handle this. Great video. also just a note, Future Motion didn't invent the onewheel. They did do a good job producing the XR. I hope someone will make a better one.
Knocked it out of the park ! Couldn't have put it better. Do we know the exact dimensions yet? I know the initial and subsequent stat sheets all had different sizes from pint ish size to middle ground and xr size? GT looks shorter and not as wide but thicker rails. You're absolutely right once a competitor comes along with software fm will lose half or more of their customer base... they'll end up like rollerblade(company) and get left in the dust.
I own an agency and help newer companies scale their brands. Secrecy is really important. I get what you’re saying, but competition is fierce. Companies always need to stay ahead of the competition or they could go under. I built a website for a big company this year and they delayed the launch of the site and held off until the last possible second to give them an edge. I get what you’re saying. Maybe consulting with riders would help a bit. But it could do way more damage than good. Also, I think people geek out a little too much over the Onewheel. It’s already awesome. Just enjoy it. I’m so grateful I was born in this era where a Onewheel can exist. Could it be better? Sure. But I ain’t gonna sweat it. Float on dudes.
Great video (as always) but I'm not convinced that this small increase in hub size will impact shock absorption much. By my rough calculation, the resulting volume change is only about 1 percent. I doubt that most (if any) riders would notice the difference in suspension effect. On the other hand, the difference in torque could be noticeable because there's an 8 percent difference in hub radius. (Mechanical engineers and others who paid more attention in school, feel free to set me straight on these points!)
Engineer from the future. Unfortunately, the 8% increase in the hub size was used for literally nothing. Motor stator is the same from the XR, but deliberately manufactured so you can’t use the XR hub with the GT to prevent you from being able to go back to a standard tire size and thus, have more options for tires. So you get all the downsides of a bigger hub of a 1% decrease in air volume and none of the upsides like more torque.
If someone were to design longer rails for the GT. This would allow for factory footpads and the proprietary electronics to be utilized. As a result a larger profile, larger diameter tire could be mounted onto the factory hub. There would have to be a mild sores and angle adjustment made within the app. Hmmmm 🤔
I want to know where would you put the batteries !! PS: You need to try newest VESC boards, considering you rode alternatives year ago, a lot of changed during the year :)
this video is so much more relevant now that the GT launched and Jakes Fears are coming right into the light. ya the new board has more torque but that bigger hub and less clearance is going to be an issue for anyone that trail rides which is I think most of the community unfortunately. I have flat feet and any time I over filled my tire oh boy did I feel it so I imagine GTs very hard tire I would absolutely hate especially when theres also more hub and less area to absorb impact...... Good thing I got my trusty XR I guess. I prob should badger it to make sure nothing hurts the thing now more then ever just for that piece of mind. I already through on some bang bumpers as well.
I absolutely agree with you on pretty much everything you talked about. Especially about how future motion doesn't seem to care about the community. They also keep doing things that highlight the anti-right to repair views the company has...
After trying the GT, I will never buy one, canceled my order, was hoping it would be What they said it would be, but between the feel of the board (discounting the firmware problems it has at the moment from tail drag to lack of custom shaping this mini review does not include that since they'll be inevitably be updated/fixed), the hardware design flaws, and the business practices, the GT and FM do not deserve my money for it. Keeping on used XR's, I do believe it will always be superior to the GT, even tricked out to the max for trail riding. I wish I could say otherwise but until both the company changes and more importantly they accept 3rd party feedback to make a solid stock board that isn't inherently flawed I think I'll stick with used XR's and later vesc chips/software to keep them in good condition till the day I'm dead. That simple. I legitimately do not like having to write what I'm saying because yeah I want to see good change so the onewheel lives on for generations like snowboarding, biking, surfing, skateboarding, etc. I hope it does, but I don't see it being that way without the major changes. I don't even feel it can unless they change or someone manages to take them over if they don't change. Guess we'll see what happens, have a lot of faith in vesc rather than FM. Anyways that's all before this is nothing more than a rant repeating the same things repeatedly. Have a good day Leary
Eyy you used the members emojis! Onewheeling will be here for generations for sure. I think FM is going to make some changes soon, but even if they don’t we’ve got VESC
Was thinking about buying one, but thanks for the heads up, they need to work with the float community, we did spend thousands of our hard earned dollars to have one
We waited so long for a truly new flagship board, and this is what we get. A board that is probably worse than the XR in most ways and requires international shipping for a tire change. They don't care about us. FFM
The business is at FM, and the passion is at TFL.
I have been wondering many times what the OW communityv would be without 3rd party companies, and even if there would be any community at all.
TFL do a hundred times more to promote OW than FM do, honestly.
I really hope one day they will open their eyes, and recognize 3rd party companies as valuable partners.
🎯 that first part
@Sylvain Chaussard yes, to those companies helping the smaller or showing recognition that a competitor has a good product means they dont value their own product. In some instances (more seen in retail or fast food) companies merge for the better and just settle out for the long ran dividends.
Yes but who gets sued when someone gets hurt or killed? Not FL.
@Sylvain Chaussard I'm not sure. In your example, there's only busyness on both sides. When someone brings or maintain passion to a product, it is a great plus for the manufacturer.
So true...
The retailers here in europe are just terrible too. It's a shame.
As always, good thoughts, and very well articulated. Definitely food for thought and things to look at as the GT makes its way out into the wild.
This video is CONCISE AF. we’re lucky to have people like you advocate for better in the community
Good insight and well said! As a European rider, we are at even more of a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with FM. From even purchasing possibilities and shipping timeframes and extremely exorbitant shipping costs! Plus being held hostage by FM if ever we need a repair as there are no repair shops in our part of the World and sending our boards back to the US would be an economic disaster! However, even with all these luxury (we are privileged to be able to afford such machines) problems, when you press that button and jump on your board it makes it all worthwhile! It is that feeling that FM are living on but as you say when there is another manufacturer that gives us that same feeling with the right to repair and listens to their riders FM might struggle in the future to hold on to our forced loyalty when they lose that monopoly advantage!🙏🏾
What a perfect video. Summarized so well.
A lot of this wouldn't bother me nearly as much if the XR wasn't being discontinued. Being forced onto a GT if I kill my XR is easily what frustrates me the most. Especially when there won't be the same wealth of third-party accessories for the GT for the first few months or more of it's lifespan.
I truly hope FM see's this. Then again, even if they do. I don't see them making any adjustments to the hub anytime soon.
I forgot to say that this is a great, thought provoking video. You bring up excellent points.
Everything Jake says is consistent with the laws of physics. Can’t wait to field test.
Excellent Jake. For all those who haven’t had the pleasure Jake is just like this in person. Lovely
This is a very true statement, Jake has been one of my buddies for a while, he is super genuine!!
Thanks for the thoughts. Your videos helped me really learn the OW before I made the purchase.
My biggest take away from the last two months: glad I bought my pint when I did! (April 2021)
For me professor you really summed it up, the one wheel community is team human all the Way, FM on the other hand is just a model of the wrong corporate struggle, the zero sum game so many play. I get the feeling they’re trying to follow an Apple model, but missed the whole point of how Apple plays the game. Right now I’m really blown away by how many people are upset that we were making comments about this at all. The fact that they didn’t reach out to anyone in the one wheel community whatsoever during the design process speaks volumes. And look at the way they did Tyler, he basically sees the GT jumps on it, rides it, then jumps off. There’s no time to really think about any of the design changes. I love my XR, well both of them, and will hold off getting a GT until I ride it.
As always thank you for a well presented video. Aoxomoxoa
Great breakdown Jake. I appreciate the analytics
Still so fricken stoked to have my hands on it lol
You do realize that going to the 6.5 hub only reduces the sidewall by only 0.25 inches. While its possible someone may notice, I don't think anyone really will be able to tell. Th side wall is going from 2.5 inches to 2.25 inches. However it's still a super sh!t move by FM to go to a nonstandard hub size. Great video.
Joe, I think you're right. By my back-of-the-napkin calculations, the slightly larger hub reduces volume by about one percent. I'm skeptical that even the most elite riders could discern that small a difference. Even if they could, I'd have to think that a small change in air pressure could compensate adequately for such a small volume change. Agreed, too, on the nuisance of a hub size that effectively cuts out third-party suppliers. That didn't stop either of us from getting in line for a GT, did it? 🤣
@@OakCityRandy it did for me.
I was an early investor in Future motion and own two boards. I've ask them from day-one to make a software option that would make the board start beeping when one reaches top speed and push-back. A beep that would tell you that you are about to eat the pavement. My Segway beeps when I hit top speed and I have never nose dived. Did future motion care? Hell no, now they're getting sued. Future Motion started a big campaign to blame the users of the board for nose dives. When you don't want to take responsibility for something you blame others. I also told then if they would move their operation to Florida or Taxes they could cut the price of the board in half and sell to a wider demographic but again they didn't care. Onewheel GT $2,200 WTF man. What kidd can afford that????? Great video Thanks
Well this video aged like a fine wine 🍷
True about the bigger hub meaning less cushioning, but it also means more torque and less torque lag through the tire, end these are good things, so it's a trade off. Pluses and minuses. I personally think they pluses outweigh the possibility of a hub fracture (though I have ordered a GT so I've got skin in the game!)
I believe that the Centre of Gravity argument is a red herring. Our CoG is about at our waist and 1cm is maybe 1% difference. I paddle board and people think a recessed deck makes a difference but it doesn't. The difference is the width (30 inches v 25 is 20% difference). Funnily enough many people ignore 'secondary stability' which is the rail dipping in the water and getting bouyancy, which is why thick rails help (SIC and others really get this). And one could argue that secondary Onewheel stability comes from to and fro body motion, which is helped by concave footpads. So maybe FM are doing the right things?
Good point about torque. I know a lot of people don’t mind or even prefer a shorter sidewall (for example, Growler riders). But for me, when I ride a Pint tire I don’t notice a lack of torque lag, I mainly notice the comfort and traction.
@@simonbowden8408 you lost me in the second half! I don’t really SUP but I feel like if you stacked blocks on top of it and stood on those blocks it would make it way harder to balance
I think it will make zero difference plus or minus. I think FM did that to target having a proprietary wheel size. I’d do the same if I was them.
@@jameshite4820 seems hard to believe that FM make that much money out of tyres? I know that people think FM are only after money, but I think they are actually concerned mainly about safety, hence most of the GT changes. FM have a difficult balancing act. The young skaters who do all the tricks want no pushback etc, while most customers are actually 30+ and like the glide but don't want to nosedive. Hence the GT. Lots of torque and control, but likely quite a bit of pushback. And much fewer nosedives due to less chance of low battery fail. FM are copying the trend in EUCs I think. Which is huge battery and big torque. But avoiding the 50mph speed, as FM are US based and face law suits.
Really well thought out and communicated points. Please keep making your videos
Great Video Jake. Love the Honesty. I have a dream that FM will work with a few 3rd party companies for a new board. Have FM make the Board, FL the footpads bumpers etc.. and have Chi handle the battery. Oh man that would be a dream rock solid product!
Last year, FM freaked out that TFL and FM were both sponsoring DirtSurferz. They said, “you can’t have Nike and Adidas sponsoring the same event.” We were like bruh if you’re Nike we make shoelaces. So yeah I agree a collabo would be sweet but I don’t think FM sees it that way… I mean, you wouldn’t have Nike using fabrics from Goretex or rubber soles from Continental or reflective strips from 3M would you???
@@JakeLeary This has nothing to do with your point...as I agree with it. However, under Nike, Converse has often offered Goretex shoes. And also Cordura shoes. They're not actual Nike's, sure. But....ya know.
Again, no real point here. FM's treatment of vendors has always been very silly and unreasonable.
@@TheBoardGarage nikes been making tons of goretex shoes for years, I was being sarcastic
@@JakeLeary Ohhhh. My bad. In fairness though...I'm kind of a moron usually.
@@TheBoardGarage lol I think your videos prove otherwise
Facts! Thank you Professor for representing. 🤙🏽
You are a genius Jake. FM should hire you guys as I feel The Float Life are experts and would make the One Wheel design the best with your feedback. Future Motion is so missing out on how awesome their boards can really be with the proper feedback and guidance for design from true OW riders and enthusiast.
Excellent points. Personally I think the added thickness of the board is gonna cause more issues for more people (due to reduced clearance) than the bigger hub. Would love to hear your ideas on where they could have placed the additional batteries. Can’t wait for new smaller battery technology to arrive - that should allow for some huge improvements in board design/ performance.
Agree with all points 🤘🏾
About the larger hub: I don’t see Hoosier or any other tire company (other than Vega) going out of their way to making specific tire for the GT unless they feel it to be profitable for them.
I’ll admit however that this remains to be seen. We really won’t know how the tire companies will respond until GT’s release but I just don’t see owners sending the GT back to FM every time there’s a flat, (or tires companies clamoring to produce a single tire mod in the middle of a pandemic).
It would be exclusively for onewheel, a tiny market versus the big outlay to create a new mould size. Burris have already said to those asking them, that they won't be making one any time soon. £400 it would cost a uk ride to send their board for a tyre change. I can get 5 FF T2 off Hoosier for that
Pro riders break rims, the rest of us break bones. 🤣
The screen shot of you bonking up three stairs and compressing the whole tire to the rim illustrates your point perfectly, really awesome OW vid all thru.
However, that bonk also shows how much of a better rider you are than just about all of FM’s customers. During Lazors 30min GT trail ride video he says the GT was designed to dramatically improve performance for the average customer.
So, if the GT board lacks for pros but not for joes, that might actually increase the niche for 3rd parties to design and sell new products to everyone. Which is exactly what TFL did 3-4 years ago with it’s first product, float plates.
The VESC programming seems promising too, viable competition is getting close.
Bonking like that is so far out of the regular customer’s ability, the GT might have been designed to give regular customers a greater riding experience.
Excellent points! But I do think that the bigger rim and taller platform will mean less stability and comfort for the average rider. And I’ve actually never chipped or dinged a rim on a bonk, but just riding rocky trails I dinged them all the time before Life Savers
@@JakeLeary
I think you nailed it, it's not designed for pros. They just split the difference on what to improve and on some key points for experts and guys like... I was gin a say us but I'm a 40 year old lame ass with simple stop turned on... They went with range first, everything else second. Not terrible but not what the die hard wanted.
I don't understand why FM doesn't do more with the community. Like, make the debate friendly, welcome feedback and take questions. Agree to disagree on stuff, but this silence and lack of support really seems out of place from how the community is.
Also I love the calm and logic take on this, the title is a bit click baity but the video comes across very level headed.
I feel like the onewheel community is stuck in the past tbh still trying to convince themselves that the xr is superior to the pint, pint x and gt when in reality its dinosaur tech. Just wait til the GT comes out its going to slap an XR in literally every way. Tricks and street choose pint x, offroad and competition choose GT it makes perfect sense that they discontinued something as aging and outdated as the XR.
ALL onewheels are exactlly arduino megas in a self balancing robot utilizing a 5volt control rail pulling 62v relays
Many of us have been saying for years that it’s only a matter of time before someone gets the firmware/software on a knock-off just right to cause a cascade of dedicated riders and potential new riders to jump ship from FM.
I’m sure the GT will be fun, and bring a lot to the table. But all the flaws and logic behind them you mentioned are big deals.
I’m hoping someone figures out how to tune a 3rd-party board jusssst right.
While I’m not a big fan of wider board setups, they do at least have options better than the modern boards for battery storage. And extra half-Inch to inch could go a long way for torque and range. The PCBs for the 3rd party boards are also tiny compared to the FM controllers. Plenty of room for extra batteries and better weight-balancing.
Admittedly the larger diameter hub may be going in the wrong direction but it is only 1/4" difference in the area that you are describing. In fact, that makes the side wall the same as the Pint sidewall height relative to the rim. Good followup points though.
I hope that The Float Life along with Jake will create a complete FL Onewheel some day! I would be first on the list to buy one!
Excellent work Jake. Your points are very well thought out and explained, I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad idea for FM to push back the launch slightly to look at maybe re evaluating some of these design choices, and gather some input from knowledgeable riders.
Jake,
I would love to see you do a video of a list of all the things you wish would have been on a new board. You know one thing for sure FM won't steal any of your ideas! I love the digital board sport and will not be surprised when we will have a legit competitor to the FM OW sooner than later.
Let's get a list going somewhere of all the things we want to see in a new board...
EUC's are sooooo far ahead tech wise and getting better every few months because there are several companies competing for business.
Good points and well presented. I'm a brand new rider and was wondering why the board wasn't lower to the ground for more stability. I felt like I was balancing on a bowling ball. I love the product, very innovative, but I get your points. I wonder if the hub was made larger to accommodate the larger motor. Also the first time I experienced push back, it almost caused me to panic and lose it. Wish we could dial in when it kicks in.
And its just a matter of time before competitors reverse engineer the Onewheel with improved tweaks and offer it for less. That's probably why all the secrecy is what I'm guessing. I'm glad to support a U.S. based company that manufactures stateside.
After release, it seems that they just made the rim bigger to make it harder for riders to swap tires. The motor is the same size on the GT as XR
Definitely some good thoughts. As someone who has not yet riden a onewheel but has followed onewheel's journey for years I don't think I will notice any of these flaws when I purchase a GT because I have no comparison. I suppose I am one of the lucky ones
You just killed my day. I wanted XR for a long time. Tonight, I went through my things and decided to sell all not so important things and finally get one wheel. I went to their website. I’ve noticed there’s a new one. Huge range. The hell. Superb. And then I watched this. XR discontinued. GT is basically worse. Company is shite. Damn.
Worse for me is not necessarily worse for you. If you just want speed and range then get the GT. If not then get a great deal on a used XR, lots of low miles XRs out there for around $1000
Man heaing you talking is so chill I feel like im high
this is why i dont want to pre order, but wait for people who are trust worthy to test it and put out reviews, great video, very informative
Perfect! Thanks!
Love my "Pint X"!
Waiting on a kush nug hi replacement for rear foot pad from Float Life. (Best company ever!) Thanks Brandon & Jeff!
watching this now and seeing how good vesc now has gotten with the new settings i think that's the way to go now
Are any riders out there able to power slide them? Especially on dirt. If so, can someone do a tutorial. I would think the type surface would be the key to start. Then once a rider gets used to doing it, they could keep pushing the boundaries. I would be doing it if I was younger I believe. 69 and still having fun.
Yes smaller hubs and bigger tire sidewalls can improve suspension action of the Onewheel but no-one makes smaller tires for smaller hubs, and FM has locked themselves in to the new tire/hub size. This will improve with time as the tire vendors make tires for this new size. Before you know it we will be rolling on 20's with spinners. If the GT tire wheel combo has the same tire diameter then it may be easy to do a hub swap if the motor which appears to be the same on all FM devices. Put up some number facts please. Love the honesty you present to FM about the relationship we have with them. An area they have misrepresented is the top speed with the new form factors Pint and soon GT they are not able to hit the advertised top speed without putting oneself at risk by fighting pushback, the XR would start a milder but increasing level of pushback at 15-16 mph. Pushback is meant to be a safety mechanism that unfortunately kicks in way before the average cruising speed and top speed of FM's platform of devices. This also may be a result of only having in house testers rather than hitting a range of users in the real world that should include pro riders on down to the family that one wheels. A suggestion for FM you have the software in place use the diagnostics to include real world stats, like Tesla does. You can see average speeds, top speeds and terrain with as much other data that is collectible. Between the users phone and the devices sensors there is no limit. The one wheel has become a cult icon device and should stay that way. Nice commentary Jake keep up the great content.
It costs 10s of thousands of dollars to mold a new tire, its not likely that 3rd 0artys will make a tire... unfortunately
Thank you. Excellent video. Glad someone brought both of these items up in an intelligent way.
Here’s the thing, speed controller PID algorithms have already been figured out. You don’t even need to design the software, it’s already there. The thing that future motion did very well is figuring out that sweet spot in what makes this board operate so smoothly. It’s not really IF it can be copied, it’s when. And I have a strong feeling that once it’s figured out it will be completely open source. Here’s hoping FM decides to stick around by supporting third parties, because despite all the negativity, no one really wants to see them go.
FM needs to realize that they have an absolute gem of a product, but they simply do not have the staffing, facilities, or capacity to manage everything themselves. The repairs, production, R&D, marketing…they need to allow third party repair shops.
I'm so scared to order. I got burned by my pint. When I first ordered, i didnt know it was pretty much crowdfunded. And when it finally arrived(4 months late) The mileage was laughable. FM is very sneaky.
A rare, dispassionate perspective. Great stuff!
Really good point about the bigger hub being an issue. I can't remembering hearing that the tire size itself was a tire supply issue so hopefully this reinforces that TFL have something in the works
Yea, I'm already a little bummed out about my GT. Don't feel bad at all for my two friends who bought an XR just weeks before the GT announcement. I don't like the GTs tire profile, I don't like that future motion is pushing out 3rd party companies, and to be honest I like my XRs ride more...
As much as I would love for fm to listen and work with us it’s kinda awesome to have the opportunity to expand on their products to build our dream boards. Suspension kits, wtf, growler and tail rails. In a way I enjoy the challenge. Whatever problems the gt board has this community will fix it. Keep up the good work dude!
Don’t get me wrong, it’s an incredible opportunity to be able and come in and pick up the slack!
Well seems that the hub did end up being an issue! We’ll see if aftermarket lower durameter tires help without the hub causing issues.
Any high performance car will have low profile tires. It will ride stiffer but feedback is improved.
Everything said here was pure fact. And just as you said when another company is able to create a similar device everyone will hop ship and go to a more customer friendly team.
100%. I would sell all my onewheels and switch in a heart beat if there was a compariblle product available.
Speaking truth to power. The professor makes excellent points. Listen up FM!!
Jake, you should have a podcast!
Great explanation, you're spot on
So I just bought the GT a couple of weeks ago. Because of the cold and snow I’ve only put like 70 miles on it. Because I would be at four times that if it was summer. I love this thing. So much. That being said as a newbie rider, I agree we should support FM to an extent because they created probably the most fun thing I’ve ever bought in my entire life. On the other side, the hardware is lacking. Like you said it’s too thick and they could just make it wider so your damn feet can actually fit on it. And my lord the two sensor design is so dumb. I know they hafta do it probably for safety etc but I already ordered a Surestart pro because it sucks SO much when it won’t activate. There are definitely quibbles. But it’s an amazing product. They really need to embrace the community and get input from pro and casual riders for their next product.
Thanks for breaking it down again, brother. Look forward to the next one.
Honestly i would just want them to put in the work for their own low profile suspension system that doesn't stick up a full foot above the wheel like the current 3rd party options.
Look man, I'm all for this "Advocating" for the community and how the company should do better... But this video is missing the larger picture. FM dose not care about the community; they would be doing all the things you mentioned, if they did. They would not have designed a board with a proprietary hub size for a tire only they sell, and keep installing more proprietary integration tech into their components to make mods, additions and cross compatibility nearly impossible. In the end, I got my board for fun and what it can offer me.... I did that knowing their customer service is the worst in any modern company, all the while striving to become more and more like Apple and the iPhones crazy software/hardware handshaking tech. You got the ball, you just forgetting who is pitching it to you... they don't care. its all money.
They made the board, it's their idea. Can't say I blame them to be honest. And if you owned fm you would probably do the same.
Dude everyone knows you are one of the best riders on earth. And I've seen all the best.
Great video Jake! I agree on all points. I have a GT on order, and I’m excited for it- but I have a nagging feeling that I’ll continue to choose my CBXR XR with a TrailPro for much of my trail riding. Here’s hoping the pros outweigh the cons 🤙
I’m buying another XR. Screw the GT lol
The reason future motion doesn't have any competition is because they have a million patents and basically own the form factor, the only reason boards like the trotter exist is because they're shipped from china, this allows fm to rest on their laurels ._.
Arduino is community freeware ide. Onewheels ARE arduino mega boards the are printed pcb by one wheel, literally earlier versions pre v1 were built using the mega.. arduino should sue Fm.. Fm also stole this idea from others
Please do tell...where would u put the additional batteries!!
What silliness! Guy says he isn't going to speculate and that's all he does.
You know that guy is me right? What, specifically is one thing that is speculation in the video?
Good info. But we all know how stiff of sidewalls fm loves having on thoer boards from the factory. And as we know there is only 2 options of tire for the gt. They will probably be rock hard tires. I'm pretty confident that the busted rim in the video had a Hoosier or burris on it when it got busted vs the hockey puck it originally came with
you're spot on bro. The future motion people suck ass. They increased the hub size so we can't use go-kart tires. they didn't listen to any riders. This GT is a fail and future motion would be nothing without craft and ride and others helping us modify our wheels. I have seen these clown at events and they are very unfriendly and arrogant. way to cool to talk to the fans.. I ride around 10-12 psi. I don't think the GT will handle this. Great video. also just a note, Future Motion didn't invent the onewheel. They did do a good job producing the XR. I hope someone will make a better one.
100%, onewhels ARE ardunio mega pcb self balancing robots.
Knocked it out of the park ! Couldn't have put it better. Do we know the exact dimensions yet? I know the initial and subsequent stat sheets all had different sizes from pint ish size to middle ground and xr size? GT looks shorter and not as wide but thicker rails. You're absolutely right once a competitor comes along with software fm will lose half or more of their customer base... they'll end up like rollerblade(company) and get left in the dust.
Thank you very much for this helpful review. I was just feeling ready to upgrade from Pint to GT. Looks like better to wait for its version 2 now.
Yoo came for one wheel info left with a valuable lesson from tyga
Great content. Keep em coming
Jake- great passionate message delivery to F.M.
Always love to hear thoughts from community leaders, please let everyone know what your design ideas are 👍
I've decided to get a backup XR instead of a GT, thanks
Yo this was definitely the best way to put this out and hopefully they listen
Noisy ducks!!! Recognized UCD in the background. Go Aggies!
Jake Leary, you’re my Hero!
I use to be angry with FM, now I’m just sad. Seriously. Why they gotta do us like this? Tail rail rider and trails only here.
I own an agency and help newer companies scale their brands. Secrecy is really important. I get what you’re saying, but competition is fierce. Companies always need to stay ahead of the competition or they could go under.
I built a website for a big company this year and they delayed the launch of the site and held off until the last possible second to give them an edge.
I get what you’re saying. Maybe consulting with riders would help a bit. But it could do way more damage than good.
Also, I think people geek out a little too much over the Onewheel. It’s already awesome. Just enjoy it. I’m so grateful I was born in this era where a Onewheel can exist. Could it be better? Sure. But I ain’t gonna sweat it. Float on dudes.
Great video (as always) but I'm not convinced that this small increase in hub size will impact shock absorption much. By my rough calculation, the resulting volume change is only about 1 percent. I doubt that most (if any) riders would notice the difference in suspension effect. On the other hand, the difference in torque could be noticeable because there's an 8 percent difference in hub radius. (Mechanical engineers and others who paid more attention in school, feel free to set me straight on these points!)
Engineer from the future. Unfortunately, the 8% increase in the hub size was used for literally nothing. Motor stator is the same from the XR, but deliberately manufactured so you can’t use the XR hub with the GT to prevent you from being able to go back to a standard tire size and thus, have more options for tires.
So you get all the downsides of a bigger hub of a 1% decrease in air volume and none of the upsides like more torque.
If someone were to design longer rails for the GT. This would allow for factory footpads and the proprietary electronics to be utilized. As a result a larger profile, larger diameter tire could be mounted onto the factory hub. There would have to be a mild sores and angle adjustment made within the app. Hmmmm 🤔
Great video and insights! Couldn't agree more!
I want to know where would you put the batteries !! PS: You need to try newest VESC boards, considering you rode alternatives year ago, a lot of changed during the year :)
Excellent points. Just like my rigid fat bike. High volume at low pressure is key for cush and grip!
This guy gets it!
this video is so much more relevant now that the GT launched and Jakes Fears are coming right into the light. ya the new board has more torque but that bigger hub and less clearance is going to be an issue for anyone that trail rides which is I think most of the community unfortunately. I have flat feet and any time I over filled my tire oh boy did I feel it so I imagine GTs very hard tire I would absolutely hate especially when theres also more hub and less area to absorb impact...... Good thing I got my trusty XR I guess. I prob should badger it to make sure nothing hurts the thing now more then ever just for that piece of mind. I already through on some bang bumpers as well.
I mean your opinion, your the only video out of the 20 ive watched thats complained about it so see ya bud🤘💚
Really good video man. I agree with everything you said. Thank you 🤙🏽
I absolutely agree with you on pretty much everything you talked about. Especially about how future motion doesn't seem to care about the community. They also keep doing things that highlight the anti-right to repair views the company has...
After trying the GT, I will never buy one, canceled my order, was hoping it would be What they said it would be, but between the feel of the board (discounting the firmware problems it has at the moment from tail drag to lack of custom shaping this mini review does not include that since they'll be inevitably be updated/fixed), the hardware design flaws, and the business practices, the GT and FM do not deserve my money for it. Keeping on used XR's, I do believe it will always be superior to the GT, even tricked out to the max for trail riding. I wish I could say otherwise but until both the company changes and more importantly they accept 3rd party feedback to make a solid stock board that isn't inherently flawed I think I'll stick with used XR's and later vesc chips/software to keep them in good condition till the day I'm dead. That simple. I legitimately do not like having to write what I'm saying because yeah I want to see good change so the onewheel lives on for generations like snowboarding, biking, surfing, skateboarding, etc. I hope it does, but I don't see it being that way without the major changes. I don't even feel it can unless they change or someone manages to take them over if they don't change. Guess we'll see what happens, have a lot of faith in vesc rather than FM. Anyways that's all before this is nothing more than a rant repeating the same things repeatedly. Have a good day Leary
Eyy you used the members emojis! Onewheeling will be here for generations for sure. I think FM is going to make some changes soon, but even if they don’t we’ve got VESC
Nick and Jeff need to put the banks and brains together and create a new branded Onewheel for us
I don't do sidewalks and bump tricks so this is cool. The Offroading thing for me is a little concerning, but I don't ride rough.
Was thinking about buying one, but thanks for the heads up, they need to work with the float community, we did spend thousands of our hard earned dollars to have one
Great vid! lots of good insight.
the tinder swindler got a onewheel hahahahhahha. I'm joking . awesome vid.
Here's where Jake was prepared to hate gt. Two months well before even getting it
Called it!
This video so far is aging well
We waited so long for a truly new flagship board, and this is what we get. A board that is probably worse than the XR in most ways and requires international shipping for a tire change.
They don't care about us.
FFM
How will it be worse?
@@coreykirby1632 wTch the video, these are all valid points
9:52 Oof you predicted what would happen to a tee
Wow. I live in the U.K., in the countryside (Oxfordshire) and I have mine about 13 psi. Quite squishy. Nice.
Lucky 13 is my trail psi. :)
Jake, the legend!
Don’t be sad when the guy with a gt leaves you in the dust.
“I’m not gonna speculate” adds tunnel echo for effect lol 😂
So true and so well delivered