Joker & Originality
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2021
- That0therGeorge discusses his opinion on the comparisons made between Todd Phillips' Joker (2019) and Martin Scorsese's Taxi Driver (1976) & The King of Comedy (1982).
Letterboxd - letterboxd.com/That0therGeorge
Instagram - / that0thergeorge - Zábava
"If you think about it That0therGeorge is just ripping off Martin Scorsese"
The one thing I really like about the Joker film is how it made you feel bad for the Joker, if I'm not mistake almost no Movie or Video Game has done this before (other than the Killing Joke and Batman Arkham Origins)
Yeah yeah, Todd did an excellent job at subtly writing it too
@@That0therGeorge I know right
@@Sword_Man_YT Talented guy for sure. Idk what's going on with a Joker sequel but either way I hope he goes on to write and direct a lot more serious stuff, would be cool to see :p
@@That0therGeorge Same, can't wait to see what he has in store.
@@Sword_Man_YT Unlike most people it seems lol, I'm actually totally cool with the idea of him doing a Joker sequel, but I guess something new would be cool too
LB user logic:
"AAA JOKER BAD MOVIE NOT ORIGINAL"
"YEAAAAA LITTLE WOMEN 2019"
I haven't seen Little Women so I can't comment there, but you hit the nail on the head with the first part so I'll like your comment anyway ;)
@@That0therGeorge I like both movies (I much prefer Joker). My problem is LB users criticizing Joker for being unoriginal but giving overewhelming praise to a retelling that's been done several times.
@@brandonbreyer3118 Well, Joker is supposed to be an original movie, while Little Women is clearly an adaptation of the book. It's different
Just watched “The King Of Comedy” for the first time last night. Man it was a saddening yet relatable masterpiece. I love it so much
“Very good, wot ‘e said”
Good video, i´m glad that someone made a video about this, happy new year
Thank you and yeah it's super interesting topic to me so I'm glad I covered it. Happy new year to you too!
this was a good video so I clicked like. Anyways, todays question is this : Will you ever make a "rant video" about Cinemasins ?
Thank you Tom!
Believe it or not that was actually going to be one of my first video essays a couple years back but I went back on that for some reason. Nowadays I feel like there are too many rants about that channel out there so I dunno if I can really add too much to the conversation in that regard. If you do want to hear my brief thoughts on them though I do talk about them in my "worst reviews on letterboxd" video in a little segment
Man I'm so sorry for missing this initially. I love this man, i really like your film analysis. Still haven't seen king of comedy myself haha. I'll have to check it out sometime soon. I'm not sure where i stand on the whole joker critique thing but I think you do a great job of explaining your side
Great video man!
No worries man and thank you! You should definitely check out The King of Comedy when you get a chance
@@That0therGeorge I will! It seems like a lot of fun and I've always been a fan of early Scorsese. Hope to see more videos from you soon man!
Honestly the point about how people basically takes a person's opinion as 100% truth and parrot it is so true. I've seen videos where people in the comments just see this creator's opinion as a fact because they have good editing and this skill of writing essay's that if they tried could make "The Room" sound like a cinematic masterpiece. Although I'm not a fan of the movie Joker(which mainly has to do with me just not getting into it) I found that point to be great.
Yeah thanks man. It's all good if a viewer hears a point that they haven't heard before and changes their mind based off that, but there does also seem to be a lot of sheepish behaviour involved sometimes as well. An example I saw of this actually was when IHE was talking about why he thinks that Dark Rises is bad on Sardonicast, now I really like IHE and I was cool with him discussing his opinion on that movie even if it was negative, but I realised in the comments that so many people had suddenly 180' their opinion of that movie just because it was IHE who said it was bad lol
@@That0therGeorge yeah it can be so weird man, and it really sucks when the people who agree with that creator become the most vocal and go onto other parts of the fandom and just by the mere mention of the movie or (when it comes to things like superheros) the iteration of the character comment how much they hate it which just makes it to the point where on social medias like instagram I just like the post and don't even bother to look at the comments.
@@captainsensational5865 Totally agreed man. That's why I'm trying to avoid engaging in echo chambers, unless it's for a video topic like this one
@@That0therGeorge yeah probably for the best because all that would happen is a bad like to dislike ratio and repetitive comments that show they didn't watch the video.
@@That0therGeorge also keep up the great work man from videos I've seen you always bring up good points.
Just saw this. Really enjoyed your take here man 😊
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it
George!! Happy Happy New Year man!! Watching this video was an awesome way to start off 2021! I really enjoyed hearing your comparisons on Joker, Taxi Driver, and King of Comedy. I really love all movies and I believe that Joker was definitely inspired by Scoresese’s movies. I do agree with how Joker is still very different despite some of the similarities to those films. I’ve rewatched Taxi Driver and it has a lot of similarities and differences to Joker. I definitely don’t think Joker is a complete copy of Taxi Driver but still shows the heavy influence it has from Scorsese’s movies. It would have been cool if Joker was directed by Martin Scorsese in the ‘70s haha. It proves that Taxi Driver was truly a revolutionary film that inspired other films which is why it’s such an easy movie to get influence from. This was so awesome to watch and hope your New Year’s is nice George! 🎉🎥
Happy New Year! Thank you very much and I obviously agree and appreciate your input
I never thought about other Films to be compared to The Joker because obviously I have never seen them. I think I can fall under this crime too when I compare Santa Clause 3 & Shrek 4 in terms of Summary which made me realize that it isn't entirely fair at all. I strongly agree that just because something isn't entirely "Original" to the very bone shouldn't mean it's "Objectively Bad" it's the Writing, Dialogue, Characters, Chemistry, & Structure of what makes a Film/Show in the first place. Those are the very 5 Important Areas to look into Movies/Shows to see if it is Good, Bad, or Mixed/Decent.
Yep! My point exactly :)
You made some pretty good points against originality in film!
Thank you very much!
What if Scorsese had directed ‘Joker’? I am sure no one would have said a word?
First off, I really appreciate your analysis of ralphthemoviemaker's review and you've earned yourself a new subscriber. Keep it up. Second: (this next part is a little long but it's been on my mind) Having seen both _Taxi Driver_ and _Joker_ (though not _King of Comedy_ yet, so I cannot speak for any comparisons above a surface level!) and enjoyed them both, I gotta say-I'm baffled at the popularity of this 'rip-off' insinuation among reviewers. It seems so elementary and lazy, especially for those who claim to be these serious film critics or enthusiasts.
Arthur and Travis, their character arcs and arguably even resolution of their stories, are just so diametrically different beyond the gritty 1970s aesthetic and label of antihero.
Off the top of my head, Arthur is a relatively unassuming civilian who gets beat up and has to be lent a gun by a coworker. Has no friends except his mother but not really. Antisocial to the point of engendering mockery. The consumate underdog.
Travis is a war veteran who keeps a journal, has a gun, restless with energy. Has people in his life he can at least talk to, such as at the nighttime diner and the woman for a bit (trying to avoid spoilers) as well as the kid. Travis is a little childlike but also burning to do something about the less than pleasant world he lives in-he's very active in his story, yet not antisocial to the point of total dysfunction.
Arthur doesn't really become active until he takes that one particular subway ride (and loses steady access to his medication, by forces outside of his control no less). (If a comparison had to be made for _Taxi Driver_ I'd argue the better candidate would be the protagonist of _Mr. Robot_ especially in the later seasons, but I digress, I like all three of these pieces of media.
Thank you very much for subscribing. I really like your input here so I hope to see you around more on the channel in the future.
As said in the video I do believe that there is a lot more similar between king of comedy & joker, than taxi driver and joker, that being said I'm with you that the "criticism" is quite vapid, no critic has really convinced me on anything to be honest. It's one of those things where it's a homage if you like it, but a rip-off if you don't.
& I obviously agree with you that I think Travis and Author have completely different characteristics.
I really need to see Mr. Robot, but it's funny you bring that up because I'm pretty sure it's Ralph's favourite show.
Thanks again for subbing and giving me your input, appreciate it a lot!
Would we all call every single marvel or dc movies copycats after the original Superman movie from 1978? No? then this movie is not a clone by any means. Like I mention in the video before I would call it an homage at most, but let's think about it for one second, there are a few points I like to say.
If a movie DECIDES to take elements from others, does it make it completely bad? not in my opinion if that was the point, If the elements do mix well with the idea then why not use it? Again, is every superhero movie bad because is about the same subject? (A being more powerful than a human facing a thread that could destroy him or the world it loves), because at its very core, every single movie in that genre is about that.
Second, if the movie was so influential that it affected other flicks as well, then claiming that this is a clone is ridiculous, every single movie made is not 100% original, every single cop movie is not, nor dramas, or love stories to mention a few, is the tiny differences that made us watching a new movie.
Third (And this is completely my personal point) Is the fact that this was quite a bold move, to begin with, how many times have we see a movie where the SUPERVILLAIN is the main character? Joker is one of the most popular enemies of batman if not the MOST. I am going to assume that King of comedy and Taxi driver start by placing their characters as normal people for what you say in this video (I haven't seen them so please correct me if I am wrong), but with Joker? we know from the start who he is or will become, we KNOW that is bound to turn into a psychopath, we know that because that is what we expect from the character. I do believe that the media was so scared of this idea of people wanting to watch a movie about a psychopath that they would claim anything to go and say "Don't watch it".
Fourth is the character itself, the joker is the embodiment of somebody who just for one bad day can turn mad but he doesn't have a particular origin story in the first place. In the comics, he even says "If I wanna have an origin story I prefer to be multiple choice", So you wanna make a movie about a character who BREAKS, with an origin story that does not exist officially. This is even a greater reason why to take concepts from movies done in the past, WHY NOT? taking inspiration when it suits the character well?
loved the video up until the burp
It was the best part!
most
originality doesn't come from the idea it come from the execution of idea
Well, neither the ideas nor their execution are done well in this film IMO. But yes, Joaquin Phoenix did deliver an intense performance, and the film has good cinematography (and soundtrack I guess, I will have to listen again).
You Were Never Really Here was based on a book tho lol, not every movie about anti-hero character studies is inspired by or related to Taxi Driver.
spoiler alert: the channel just insults anyone who says its a clear rip off, and just attack them personally like in around 5:20... joker is a clear rip off of kings of comedy and they rub it in your face. it even has Robert deniro and the cover has a joker card on it. lol
Many films are inspired by other films, so what??? Isn’t the key the story you are telling???
don’t let the redditors see this lmao
Incel movie