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Loose Leash Heeling vs Controlled Walking
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- Using a harness to fix pulling when taking a dog for a walk is a common mistake from new dog owners. This question and answer is from a customer who is having this exact problem. Ed Frawley will explain what the options are to train a dog to walk on a leash and what we consider the 3 different ways of taking a dog for a walk.
Very good explanation!
Thank you. Thank you so much for your videos. Excellent information. Very helpfull.
Hi Ed,
i've recently found your channel; and i am diving into the great information on here. I just bought one of the DVDs from leerburg "Training Recall with Michael Ellis'. i really like your advise here, i have a question; after that one prong correction with Stella, did she ever pull anymore or did she never again got prong pressure? if she did, how long did it take her to understand her position on her walk? thank you so much.
Have questions? Check out the largest dog training QA database (3,000+ entries) or submit your question to ask Cindy! leerburg.com/qa/index.php
Excellent
Great info
One of my dogs are weird just a normal collar he pulls like no tomorrow and when the harness go's on theirs no pull plus the type of harness I have is designed for pulling and I'm training him to pull cause i had a longboard and I want to get my dogs energy out but I can't run a long ways cause of my cardiac problems
Excellent info!! Wish I wouldve heard years ago
Thanks for posting, I have never heard of him.
Always good information. Really appreciate your wisdom. Just curious why you don't advocate a gentle leader or a halti for a "puller".
Larger, more powerful and strong-minded dogs, a halti or gentle leader would do very little to help pulling.
olamvaed
Ive had good results w/using a gentle lead on my 120lbs GSD. The advantage to the gentle lead halters is u can instantly turn ur dogs head towards u & establish eye contact. Then u can controll the animals physical position, gaze & focus back onto u.
Most dogs hate having their face tied up and even with positive reinforcement some dogs(my dog) never accepted it. A prong works. What i'm curious about is for long coated dogs would a bigger MM be better to avoid pulling hair?
I agree I have a 130lb female Dane and would not have the control necessary without a prong collar. She is now 3 and is doing so much better on walks and I do not have to use much correcting and my voice has the control she and I need. My previous Dane I used a prong collar and she responded much better to a point I never needed a prong collar I think before she even was 2.
Mark Evans ppppppppp
Oh lol sorry just noticed this comment - I fell asleep watching the video (no reflection on the content; I was just really tired) and my finger must have hit the “P” 😁😁😁
😀
Ok so I've nailed the heeling 100% inside, nearly 100% in the hallway and nearly 100% during their walk. BUT Before all this if they need to pee I cannot seem to get them to focus long enough. It's like everything goes out the window until they pee and go #2 after that it's cool. I will be working on this for the next week, but am I perhaps fighting too much nature here and asking for unrealistic goals? Is my focus cue not strong enough maybe? /frustrated
Grizz Lee personally I would decide if my dog is paying attention to me or focused on his pee/pop spot just out side my home. Then that is good. No walking until he has done his business and will focus on me.
yup - how would you feel if your silly mum was trying to get you to do something trivial and you needed to go poo/pee NOW!!! or wet your shoe? SO maybe just wait for the walk until after they have done that one at home or if its not one cue yet work on getting the toilet thing on cue - Leerburg has a free video on this and it was the worlds best thing ever to teach apuppy even before heel :D czcams.com/video/N9cNMzVkdNo/video.html
I doubt it has anything to do with your focus cue not being strong enough (and it's actually a GOOD SIGN on how you're training your dog, the fact that your dog will ignore your focus cue until they do their business. It suggests that you have a great relationship with your dog and you're not using too heavy of hands or any aversives/creating conflict, because they're not fearful of repurcussions from you and feel comfortable enough to know they can ignore you for potty time as of current).
BUT- the way around this is simple: teach your dog to relieve/empty themselves AS SOON AS the door is opened/they go outside. Then, your dog will never even be in the position to BE ABLE to ignore your focus cue, because they'll never have the urge or desire to empty during competition or training sessions. :) (this goes back to the beginning: manage the dog to the point it CAN'T fail to begin with).
As for teaching them to automatically reliev themselves once they hit the yard for the first time: the same way you crate train, is the fame way you train this. Except for you use a leash on them when going outside going on the yard, and the ONLY time they get unclipped from the leash to get free time/roaming time/playtime/training time/reward time outside, is only when they potty within the first minute or so of going potty when they're taken out. If they don't potty on leash within the first 3-minutes, back inside they go. (Its important that you don't engage with them, look at them, pay attention to them directly when going outside on leash, until AFTER they potty within the first 3mins).
Ie- take them out on leash, post up in the designated potty vicinity with a 6' leash. Don't talk, don't look them in the eyes, and freeze all engagement and interaction until they go potty. AS SOON AS they go potty, then immediately reward with unclipping the leash and going crazy with interaction. They'll quickly figure put that going potty, as soon as they get outside, is the only way to freedom/fun/engagement/etc. After enough repetition of this, they'll begin to actively per/poo immediately because they've become conditioned to do so as soon as they go out. You'll know once they're ready to go out off leash, and still will go potty immediately, once they're going out on leash and they're not hitting the end of the leash, not dicking around just looking at things, and they just instantly start sniffing to potty and potty quickly. Then, you'll know they're conditioned.
After you feel they're close enough to conditioned/have associates it well enough/learned what you're asking or expecting them to do, then start some trial runs by going through the motions as if you're putting them on leash (but not actually clipping the leash to them) and take them out off leash but still walking with them to the designated potty spot off leash just as if they were in lead. After a little while of doing this, and they're still performing pottytime correctly, then fade out walking out every single time by only walking out with them every other time, then every other three or for times, then finally to where you let them out and they just automatically go and run the routine religiously with just your distant supervision. But, IF they start to wonder or veer off by not going straight to the potty spot first, then immediately correct it via calling them inside and keeping them in (with no interaction/engagement) for 20-30mins or so. Then, re-try. If they're consistently failing in a step, then you rushed it a little too quick and need to go back a step and re-affirm there learning correctly/making the association.
This is how I've done all of my dogs, and every single one of them beeline it to the potty spot and start to pee and poop within like 10secs. Then, they get to roam, engage, and have fun thereafter. I've never had an issue again with pottytime overriding cues or peeing/pooping inappropriately during performance day. :)
Hope this helps somehow!
Have questions? Check out the largest dog training QA database (3,000+ entries) or submit your question to ask Cindy! leerburg.com/qa/index.php
that is actually my problem, my dog is much stronger than my weight and danger occur if he pull me i fall down, now his big, i have Belgian mallinois one year and two months old..... at home he listen very good
when we go out now that is my big issue ,,pulling leash, listen less..????how to???
Seems like a prong collar should help, exercise and interest will probably be the main thing. They're working dogs so they need a job but have fun with it.
I had a trainer that use choke collars and while it worked for him, it was useless for me and I was never confident I was using it correctly and not hurting my dog(he continued to pull, gagging and choking for most of the walk). The trainer wanted to move up to a prong collar but I refused because if I couldn't use the choke collar correctly, chances of using the prong collar correctly were not good.
I just ordered a front clip, no pull harness, now listening to this and that harnesses don't work, just makes me want to give up completely. He's a high energy dog that has already pulled me down once. Even when he was a puppy, he'd jump and bite while walking, now he just pulls, ignores treats and attempts to engage. I've honestly stopped walking him completely at this point.
Did he mention to start in a very quiet environment with no distractions? The people who have hurt my dog are stupid trainers at kennels who try to use a slip collar or a plain collar when my dog wants to come greet me - i hate seeing my poor doggy choking herself at the end of a stay try to get to me :( I have to train the trainers to let her run to me or to get her to sit ...... unbelievable!
I don't understand this. He is talking about using the prong collar for correction, but isn't the FIRST step to train your dog to heel nicely at your side? This can be done in easy steps, first in the house and then outside during distractions. I don't believe a prong collar should be used to train your dog to walk by your side because then you are only training him or her to react to the collar, not to heel! If all attempts to train heel have failed, then I can see this, but not until heel is taught.
More competent and effective training for dog lovers should be the norm and not the exception. Dillligent attention is a trainers most valuable tool🐶.
train the person,rehabilitate the dog.
i whis this american came to mexico and not the ones came or are hear
Why don't you FIRST talk about methods to teaching your dog how to walk nicely, then talk about equipment? Maybe there is no need for equipment, even in huge strong pullers, if they learn how to master the walk and desensitize to distractions.
Like most people my CZcams video attention span is about 2 minutes, so the only word I got out of this talk is "prong collar". If I was an inexperienced dog owner I would go right outside and start "correcting" my dog into submission after watching videos like this. And that is exactly what I see people do everywhere on walks, dog parks, etc. They go all "Cesar Millan" and simply abuse their dogs. And guess what, they still pull. Or worse - they "surrender". Congratulations, you successfully lobotomized your dog.
You can train heavy high drive pullers loose leash walking, with just a harness. Of all people in the world I'm sure you must agree on that. Shouldn't the focus be teaching, desensitizing and counter conditioning, when people ask about their dogs pulling?
TOMT prong collars are my favorite. I’ll put 10 or 12 on a dog, some are just for fashion but the rest are because we are evil trainers. You do the hug method a? Hugs and kisses train dogs so well I hear but I won’t try that because I like hurting the dogs so much. Pffff you snowflakes are are just so out of touch with how people actually use these collars. Gtfoh
I agree and I think that same philosophy of using teaching and learning first, saving equiptment/accessories as a "plan b" or backup option could be applied to almost every aspect of training. I have used prong collars with big dogs and yes, they do work well without hurting the dog so I am not opposed to their use, especially since I weigh just over 100lbs myself. But I prefer and have had success with front clip harnesses used in conbination with the basic principle of rewarding the Behavior I want (which is calm, "loose leash" and at my side), and ignoring the dog and stopping the walk completely the second i feel tension on the leash. Then, with enough practice, you can easily and quickly stop your dog or change direction by applying slight pressure whichever direction.
It really doesnt have anything to do with resistance to discipline, corrections, etc, as a previous comment so politely suggested lol
Sure, teaching loose leash walking with JUST a harness can be achieved, IF:
- you are well versed and educated in canine cognition, how animals learn, and canine psychology
- you start out immediately with a pup 4mo old or younger, that hasn't developed months upon months of bad habits, or that does not have behavioral issues from being confused by an owner who doesnt understand the above bullet point above and has been incorrectly communicating with the dog (which is most laymen pet owners)
- you have A LOT of time to put in, weeks upon weeks of patience, to wait until the dog finally gets through the learning processed AND proofed (unrealistic for most working-dog owners, and not going to be successfully done by the majority of amateur run of that mill pet owners) as it can take many months for the general "I don't get to go where I want if I'm pulling" learning concept finally sinks into the dog and THEN after proofing of all levels of distraction have been thoroughly worked through the dog is under easy control.)
- you have one of the types of dogs who fit into a very small minority of high intelligence, to the point they WILL understand and learn the concept, and allow it to override their natural desire to pull and lunge because it's a self-rewarding behavior no matter how you look at it when in a harness for the majority of dogs (I'd be willing to bet the majority it fails on is upwards of 90% or better).
You see what I'm saying now? All of the above is applicable, in order for the harness-only method to work. Otherwise, the laymen is going to have to hire one of us professional trainers to complete the task, or resort to a tool to be utilized as an effective method of manipulating circumstance to where their dog learns how to loose leash heel/walk nice. The majority of pet owners don't have the extra play funds to hire one of us at $500-$1k, and the majority of pet owners don't have nowhere NEAR the knowledge and experience needed to teach in the form you're speaking of unfortunately.
These videos are made for the laymen, as that is who is sending I these questions on these Q&A videos - the general pet owner/layman. Thus, the directional info given is geared toward helping them and getting them to understand the basic principle on how they can achieve what it is they're asking, in the most effective way possible - for the layman.
Tools of the trade are completely fine and acceptable as long as it achieves the desired result AND it doesn't affect the confidence of, well-being of, or relationship of the dog and handler... As long as those two criteria are met, then there is no "best way" or "method/tactic" better than the other in regards in any way, shape, or form other than how quickly the desired results are achieved.
Why would you put a harness on a dog?