Carl Sagan on God as the Creator | Watchmaker Argument
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- čas přidán 17. 06. 2023
- Carl Sagan on God as the Creator | Argument from Design
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#shorts #carlsagan #universe #cosmos #atheism #atheist - Zábava
Theists see a cave and think it must be designed so that animals can have shelter during the winter.
The universe is 10^18 seconds old, and there are 10^82 atoms in the universe. If you multiply these two numbers together, it's still FAR smaller than the denominator of the probability of typing Hamlet randomly, which is over 10^130,000 possibilities. I don't know if the universe can make a watch randomly, but it DARN sure isn't able to make Hamlet randomly, unless it gets many, many orders of magnitude older.
😂Gay
How stupidity becames part of Humans essence . There are so many men evolutioning to become women 😂
Real ☠️
@@theboombody not to mention how the universe didn't have a typewriter until 1868
A compassionate genius.
He is missed.
I don’t know how he maintained his composure for all that time. I mean for me he’s like the Mr. Rogers of science.
Not missed at all, he is silly!
He will have a telescope named after him. In the mid 2030s a telescope similar to the JWST will be launched but with a mirror several times larger. It will see in visible wave lengths where JWST is mostly for infrared. A suitable legacy.
Especially in the cesspool of crap we have to endure on the airwaves now.
@@vladbukhman429 He is silly only for religious fundamentalists.
He had such a talent for cogent explanation. I don't mind Neil deGrasse Tyson, but he ain't no Carl Sagan!
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost.
NDT was also inspired by Sagan.
Why did you even mention Neil? Why should we compare the two?
@@chrisrea6841 the first question will be... how does you feel to have less sacred things in your miserable alone godless life then us? And then why are you into a cult that leads to nothing? And why you are a part on something that have nothing to offer to us believers, but loneliness?? and finally how can you deny what you do not know or have in your alone godless life? and why God should care about what you think to exist? Go and be honest once in your life you Goddenier....
He's different
Using logic, nature created man, man created God.
And, God created nature.
At the end.
Man destroy God.
God destroy nature.
Nature destroy man. 😂
God created you and gave you the power of logic. Just repent and believe in God before you die, you'll be glad you did.
@@SharriffRahman6b6b thats cute, proof?
@@Jocky8807 cute, proof?
@@Druid75Im a Muslim and I mostly agree with evolution because the Quran has nothing against the evolution theory. However, I don’t agree with you that there is no god. Therefore, Im gonna use the classic kalam argument, and you will try to refute one of the three points mentioned.
1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
You can’t show us that atoms, or matter didn’t “popped out of existence”. Not empirically anyways. Can you describe to me how they have always existed and how they are infinitly old?
2) The universe began to exist.
You can’t refute that point since science pretty much confirmed this is a reality. The cosmos is expanding, therefore, this leads to the conclusion that the universe had a beginning. And it’s agreed upon.
3) Therefore the universe has a cause.
You can give how do you think that the universe has no cause, and we can argue based on your response.
Paul davis, who is a cosmologist concluded that the universe is fine-tuned for life, and the universe to be sustained. This is a broad agreement between nearly all scientists. Nonetheless, could you tell me how the fine-tuning of the cosmos doesn’t need god? Meaning, in my opinion, the burden of proof is on you, because the scientific findings don’t lean towards atheism at all, it’s the other way around. Unless if you expected to see god above the sky, im sorry, he isn’t there.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary
evidence." Carl Sagan
exactly. That's why religion is horseshit.
yet we have never ever seen evidence of evolution ever, cuz if it happens then how come it has stopped, that is why i believe that in the future there will be no atheists,
@@WillCarbo_27 I am sorry to inform you that every day there are more people who do not believe in gods, especially the new generations, religions fight among themselves to see who has the best imaginary friend, in science we trust!
“It is easier to believe than to think”Albert Einstein
I chose to think
@@WillCarbo_27 lol you're the biggest proof of evolution. Your cognitive prowess is much more ape-like than human.
@@WillCarbo_27 Evolution never stopped. I don't know who told you that it stopped but whoever did was profoundly ignorant about evolution. You should not jump to conclusions when you know absolutely nothing about the subject.
The key concept to illustrate why the watch analogy to sustain the claim that a god is a necessary explanation is a false analogy is that watches don't make copies of themselves.
Darwinian Evolution doesn't say a thing about how life emerged (that's another field, abiogenesis). But it explains that once there is a life form - no matter how simple it is - it will change over time, which explain our biodiversity.
Watches of the future will be able to make copies of themselves
But that doesn’t prove the Christian point of genesis either, since it claims that man is made in god’s image, which has conclusively been proven to be a wrong assertion.
Whatever form of life that was originally formed it had to have had the ability to sustain itself, and *reproduce itself* from the very start. Or else it would have become extinct as "Life 1.0" in the test trials.
No matter how much time and opportunity you throw at it, non-life will not form life apart from the input of an intelligent source making it so.
It is not "inevitable."
It is not "probable."
It is not possible.
It is impossible.
Time does not make the impossible possible.
You can't divide by zero no matter how many times you try. It was impossible yesterday.
It is impossible today
It will remain impossible tomorrow.
@@krishnanunnimadathil8142just because you say that doesn't make it so. It hasn't been disproven, nor will it be.
Saying that any life form - no matter how simple it is - will change over time is true until it is false. What you’re not taking into account is the concept of equilibrium. Systems exist in equilibrium especially interconnected systems. So even while changes occur, they tend to come back to equilibrium. When the system equilibrium itself shifts to a new one, then one can argue that the new environment causes widespread shifts in the ecology and species that can thrive there. But you can’t hand wave and extrapolate small changes within an equilibrium constantly accumulating indefinitely with abrupt extinction somehow to prune out the species that fail to change.
Problem is the religious cling to their beliefs more tightly if presented with reasonable arguments
And many will, or want to, burn you at the stake for questioning their beliefs
"Problem is the religious cling to their beliefs more tightly if presented with reasonable arguments." I won't disagree. In fact the apostle Paul said that we "suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness" like pushing a basketball into a body of water, we will have to suppress that which is evident to us.
You have to steal from the Christian worldview every single day because you are made in the image of God. You live in God's world! Appeal to ethics? Appeal to truth? Appeal to logic? You cannot appeal to these without contradicting yourself.
Your name: Pursuit of truth:
What exactly is truth? How would you describe what truth is like ontologically and teleologically?
Or how about this: what of the resurrection of Jesus Christ? Look at the calendar; what year is it? Jesus split time. Hundreds of eyewitnesses beheld Him after the resurrection. I have heard a great many of refutations. You present some if you desire.
I hope maybe we can debate some things if you desire.
We ought to pursue absolute truth. We agree. What is absolute truth? We would need to discuss.
Yours,
James
@michaelburk9171 Just like the burning of Cranmer and Tyndale. They were burnt at the stake. They stood for what was right, for what they knew was true.
For the religious atheists to throw Wurmbrandt into the gulag or Corrie Ten Boom into the concentration camp.
"So what?" may be a childish question but it begs a vital question: so what?
According to your worldview, we are meaningless bags of water. What was the slaughter of millions of Jews in the 20th century but the prime example of survival of the fittest? It's the Lion eating the Antelope, the Cougar eating the Boar. In a meaningless universe, why don't we rid thousands of people that might want incredibly inconvenient for us to keep around? The disabled cost a lot, I certainly cost a lot(I have narcolepsy). That's what you guys did in Germany. We are ugly bags of mostly water! Who cares?
You have to steal from God's world. You are made in His image. Go back to first principles: the laws of Logic. Study them. Maybe you'll be a bit more consistent then (for better or for worst (nihilism)).
Thank you,
James
Hes incorrect theres no evidence of this. Theres many scientists who have proved him wrong but are not given there due exposure. How can we exist by chance, its impossible. So we have a earth, sun,moon,oxygen, reproduction which is miracle in itself when u have a baby, just to say one. Everyone has eyes noses , feet, senses, awareness. This all is impossible to happen by chance, Absolutely impossible, the very logic defies it.
😂 Is this a reasonable arguments. By his reasoning, you can turn into a car in the next 5 billion years. Never heard anything so stupid.
All because you are scared of been held accountable by a divine being. 😅
Very few have Sagan's eloquence, with not a word wasted to make the point. His books and videos would be banned in some places these days. Brilliant.
it is sad that still today we need science communicators to promote logic and push back on the lies and darkness of the biblical universe.
What lies? Examples please.
@@andrewdouglas1963open the bible to any random page and you'll find one.
your mom is fat - phillip 1:16@@michaelburk9171
@@andrewdouglas1963
what would a "supreme being" want with a petty child like you?
@@louseveryann2181
Where you important to your parents?
Do you have children and are they important to you?
If you can answer yes to these questions then you should know know the answer to your own question.
SOME PEOPLE NEED TO BELIEVE BUT NOT EVERYONE.
WE SHOULD ALWAYS QUESTION AND LOOK UP MORE OFTEN. THE MAN WHO TAUGHT ME THINGS ABOUT THE COSMOS. MR CARL SAGAN HE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY INSIGHTFUL MAN......
The fact that its the 21st century and people have more access than ever in their phones alone to an infinite amount of information that provides them viable answers and they STILL choose to pretend evolution isn’t real and take refuge in delusions.
“Evolution is impossible, magic invisible sky daddy made everything happen” 🤓
You'll see, evolution is for those who can't deal with the truth
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost....
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost....
🤣🤣👍🏼
@@paulwise6856 wrong
The watchmaker argument is a favorite of christians. Despite the fact that in their own world view, they think they can tell the difference between creation and non creation despite the fact that they think EVERYTHING is created.
They wouldn't be able to tell if something wasn't created because they dont even think that exists.
They found a watch on the ground. But the ground is made of watches next to a river bank of watches next to a river of watches under a great watch sun in the sky as they breath watches in and out of their lungs.
So clearly explained. Evolution is a brilliant explanation. God botherers don't like it because it destroys their fairy tales.
The survival of the fittest?? Quaint, antiquated science. "Science advances one funeral at a time. " very natural. Does order "spontaneously come out of chaos at your house?"
God created Evolution. Cope now
@@tubeguy4066 LOL the irony of your statement is so good. Cope harder. Prove your god "created" anything at all son.
@@tubeguy4066 proof?
@@Druid75even if God appears before you, you won’t believe. You would rather go to get a potion to make him go away 🙂
*God is a manifestation of an undeveloped mind.*
Choosing to insult those who disagree with you is an immature argument.
@@Cdaragorn It's not insulting when it's the truth.
@@Titan-vi7vh You can insult someone even if what you say is true, so Cdaragorn has a point.
ah yes Einstein, Newton were all undeveloped minds 🤡
@@Aksarallah Newton was a man of the 17th century, where the scientific revolution was in its infancy and the religion influence were stronger than today.
And Einstein's view about "god" was far different than what most people refer as "god".
If you believe in creationism in the 21st century, you simply aren't good at thinking.
If you don't believe in a Creator you haven't learned anything about science.
What is thinking but brownian motion of electrons in your neurons? Why do you expect such flashes of charges to be right?
@ajsirch The ability to acknowledge particles requires structure to maintain matter in a manner that chaos can't produce in a void.
@@randyeldridge1222 Remember, that the materialist and strict naturalist assert that just pure motion (that is the motion of gases left over from the initial inflationary phase of the universe does all that) is responsible for everything. The fact that they can assert such shocking nonsense with a straight face is what is all the more shocking
Good at thinking 😂😂😂. Ironic that God says your type are incapable of pondering.
You don't just claim a watch has a maker.
You can show evidence that watch makers exist, as do blueprints for the products they make.
You could even probably find a watchmaker that would allow you to watch the creation of an entire watch from the first two parts assembled to the last.
Watchmakers do not prove the claims made by men on behalf of supernatural allegations.
Where's your evidence you hypocrite you know why evolution is still alled a theory because it hasn't been proven yet. And nothing is more supernatural than claiming intelligence and consciousness appearing out of nothing and putting these elements together and creating cells. Also explain to me how does DNA form on itself without cell membrane or anything to organize it or protect it
Carl Sagan is a true redeemer of
mankind. His concepts and opinions
are clear and truthful.
There's only one redeemer and that's Jesus.
Earth is now 6 billion years old and there were planty of time to form watch by itself but it didn’t.
We should have built churches to honor Carl Sagan because reason and logic should be the one true religion of humankind.
You shall not be forgotten so easily.
Very small thinking, science has completely proven evolution is impossible but the Marxists need to cancel the creator if they are to rule over mankind, stop listening to CNN and Fox
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost......
No one cares what you think
The Church of Sagan for Saganists (people that practice Saganism).
@@MillillioN Love it 😁
Carl Sagan was absolutely correct, and between his and Darwin's findings evolution is a fact. and because that has been established there's no necessity to look to religion. because god is simply conjured up by man and religion has no basis in the secular world. Carl Sagan knew this. and he was a great inspiration to me.
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost...
Forgive me but I think you have come to the wrong conclusions here. As I understand it neither Sagan nor Darwin thought like that. Darwin believed in God and that Natural Selection supported his belief. Sagan does not deny the possibility of a Creator God. Evolution is a well-founded theory (it is inappropriate to call it a fact as our understanding of it will develop over time) and there are very few credible authorities who deny it. The Catholic Church for example - since the 1950s if not before - recognises that man has evolved and that the Adam and Eve story is an allegory for our relationship with God - not the literal historical truth.
🤡 it's not a fact, it's a theory based on zero observable proof.
Correction. Evolution is a theory.
There are 2 types of science.
High confidence and low confidence.
High confidence science is science that can be observed, tested and repeated.
This is true of MICRO evolution.
Low confidence science cannot be observed, tested or repeated.
This is the case in MACRO evolution.
Especially when there is more and more evidence arising which questions macro evolution such as the waiting time problem and the lack of transitional fossils.
Darwin himself said the test of his theory relies on the future discovery of transitional fossils. His theory is being refuted by his own test.
Progressing science is making the case for macro evolution weaker, not stronger.
Spoken as a true fool.
What a brilliant chap 🍻👌🏻
Shill
His talks abd tv shows should be shown in schools even today easy to listen to and makes it simole for children to hear the facts and truth
And 50 years later these brainwashed god-fearing debaters still think the watchmaker argument is good.
It gets old for sure. That and the Kalam argument, and pretty much every regurgitated thing every Creationist says. Especially people like Cant and Errant Blowind and their buddy,Matt Foulwell.
How brainwashed are _you_ to think that?
Pretty much all the great scientists of the rennasiance who ushered in the modern world were Christians. Lets see how we progress in this secular world where meaning and reverence has been replaced with money.
You may think atheism makes you feel superior to those who believe in God, and i imagine you feel you escaped the tyranny of religion. But thats the brainwashing right there. Christianty IS freedom. The endless desires and corruptions of the physical world create a state of complete slavery. Thats why totalitarian regimes pump up those ideas and suppress religion. People who believe in a power higher than the government cannot be pushed around. They are loyal only to God, not the various systems of control the world uses
Even if I put all the watch components in one box and wait 4.5 billion years they still wouldn’t put themselves together to make the watch, but you want to tell me the universe came from chaos. Chaos don’t create order, that’s some real bs.
@@mohamedshiekh635 It's not anyone's fault that you can''t wrap your head around it. Humans are astill a primitive species, we'll grow out of religion like we grew out of dancing for rain or sacrificing goats for good crops. It's a terrible phase we have to go through, but luckily theism is dying out more and more every passing year, and people are learning to think for themselves.
Miss you Carl
What people need , need to understand is given enough time all outcomes happen and not once , the same outcome happens over and over , in the multiverse I've written this infinite times !
Carl Sagan is an awesome individual.
he's and idiot. Entropy is a LAW of physics which illustrates that chaos follows order given enough time, not the opposite.
This man was 1000 yrs ahead of his own time !
Hahaha, yeah, he was! Where is he now. He forgot to tell us alot of things.
He certainly seemed like it when compared to god-believers who are 1000 years _behind._
@@humbleevidenceaccepter7712 Sorry, but you pagans are the ones back 1000s of years intellectually. Only a fool would look at the complexity of life and the universe and say it happened by chance. Spontaneous generation was disproven many years ago.
Except that the human watch maker has the power to show himself or herself
Darwin was a genous. A good human. Evolution is now proven.
Yet, people would rather go to the priest because their brain is lazy and they want to hear simple answers and they would rather hear the lie that comforts them than the truth. But, most importantly they easily bend to peer presure at the churches and musques.
"Because I do not understand, I make up my own explaination". 😅 Religion.
Isn't that the case with evolution also? It's still a theory, not a fact. We still don't understand the origin of universe as well, and we are assuming and making things up. How can nothing create something.
@@Denis-fs2ipyou should look up the meaning of "theory" as used in science. And evolution through natural selection has nothing to do with the creation of the universe
@@Denis-fs2ip Firstly, it's important to understand that the term "theory" in science doesn't mean a guess or a hunch. Rather, a scientific theory is supported by a large body of evidence that has repeatedly been tested and has not been disproven. In the case of evolution, the scientific community overwhelmingly accepts it as the best explanation for the diversity of life on Earth, based on empirical evidence such as fossil records, DNA analysis, and observations of living organisms.
Secondly, while we don't have a complete understanding of the origin of the universe, our current understanding of the nature of the universe allows us to make very accurate predictions about its behavior. The Big Bang theory, for example, has been supported by a vast amount of observational evidence, such as the cosmic microwave background radiation. Similarly, our understanding of the fundamental laws of physics, such as the laws of thermodynamics, allow us to make predictions about the behavior of the universe as a whole.
Finally, the assertion that "something cannot come from nothing" is based on a limited understanding of the nature of reality. Modern physics postulates that the universe is governed by principles of quantum mechanics, where particles can appear and disappear spontaneously. Similarly, the Big Bang theory suggests that the universe started as a singularity, a point of infinite density and temperature, where our current models of physics may not be applicable.
To summarize, while our understanding of the origin of the universe and the nature of reality is incomplete, the scientific community uses empirical evidence and well-supported theories to make accurate predictions about the behavior of the universe. Evolution, in particular, is widely accepted as the best explanation for the diversity of life because of the body of evidence in its support.
@@Denis-fs2ip LOL silly boy
"Because I refuse to accept the obvious truth, I have to invent a means of design existing without a Designer,"
Antireligion
Carl Sagan is sorely missed in a world where conservative nutters are gaining some traction.
Watches aren't biological...and that's where the debate ends.
Put 2 watches together and you don't get baby watches
@@michaelburk9171 Yea, and you don't what time it is either
Someone should make a video explaining how God created the Sun, four days after life came about on the planet Earth. It's kind of like being born before your parents
There may be a creator but it is not necessary. There is no absolute certainty and I can live with that. No matter what the ethic of love one another should be there.
Thank you one time somebody with some simple sense. We simply don't know that's it and that's all. We don't have tools to know atleast now.
You made my day thanks. You are great!@@manojchaitanyathirukkovalluri
@@manojchaitanyathirukkovalluriby that logic theres also spiderman but we dont have that "tools" to detect him
It goes beyond this.
We are able to recognize design by contrasting it WITH nature.
We know watches are designed because we do not find watches in nature.
Without the contrast of nature, there is no reason to assume watches on the beach are not natural.
By this reasoning, we recognize design simply because we recognize nature.
We cannot then take that line of reasoning and then claim nature is therefore also designed. We would need to show that by comparing designed nature to non designed nature and we do not have evidence of that existing.
another issue is that the only reason you know the watch requires a watchmaker is as a human you know we make watches and it's a manufactured item in a natural location. However saying that about nature makes no sense as it becomes a beach full of watches in a world full of watches and thus you couldn't seperate natural from unnatural...or supernatural I guess.
Exactly.
10/10
Bingo ice seen comments making loop saying the same point that it not naturally cuz it isn't that's the belief part.we cannot use the same thinking as we do in the physical world.
He was always so succinct, just straight to the point. Near flawless logic. Legend
Near flawless logic clearly implies the possibility of a flaw in the logic.
The flaw is time: not simply whether there has been enough time, but also whether time has been constant throughout the epochs and aeons. Finally the measurement of time over such long periods is guesswork.
One of the flaws he probably isn't aware of is the waiting time problem in macro evolution.
Science never stays static. It's always evolving. What is accepted science one day is overturned the next.
You are right: ALMOST FLAWLESS. Sagan is wrong. Darwin did not have the scientifical facts at the time. Especially not the cambrian explosion, Einstein's relativity theory, the discovery of the DNA, the fact that ttime, soace and matter had q beggining, the way a cell is assembled, the mathematical calculus that shows there was not enough time for evolution to take place...
@@romuluscerchez2883
Exactly. Darwin himself set a falsifiable test for his own theory. He said his theory would fall apart if we didn't discover transitional fossils in the future.
Well we haven't found transitional fossils.
@@andrewdouglas1963 exactly!!!
Who created the creator ? 🤔
God is Spirit,thus apparently does not need to be created,but just exists and does not live in time,so there was no time to create the creator. thanks
@@joman388I'll have what you're smoking!
@@devanwhitston7966 Good then you'll have nothing. thanks
@joman388 Worst comeback I've ever received. I hope your imaginary foggy friend will comfort you during these troublesome times. 🤣
@@devanwhitston7966 Calling God foggy and imaginary will get you zero points for eternity. You must not have gotten many comebacks during your ___ years of life.
Atleast you got the friend and comfort part correct but it is still not a passing grade.
I like to say if one would be petrified by Gods chief of creation the dinasour, how much more should we be afraid of the one who created such, that is when one says nothing nice about God. thanks
Life is not an orderly thing.... It's just a random thing in vast cosmos. It produced consciousness serendipitously. Have a great time while it lasts.
"The fundamental reason why a lot of paleontologists don't care much for gradualism is because the fossil record doesn't show gradual change and every paleontologist has known that ever since Cuvier. If you want to get around that you have to invoke the imperfection of the fossil record. Every paleontologist knows that most species don't change. That's bothersome if you are trained to believe that evolution ought to be gradual. In fact it virtually precludes your studying the very process you went into the school to study. Again, because you don't see it, that brings terrible distress." (Stephen J. Gould, Professor of paleontology from Harvard University, During the question and answer session following his Hobart and William Smith College lecture, Dr. Gould was asked if there was not Stratigraphic evidence indicating gradualism)
Smart man
Earth is now 6 billion more or less years old and there were planty of time to form watch by itself but it didn’t.
"Cosmos" changed my life.
Really? So what caused the Big Bang?
How refreshing - so tired of trying to prove things to theists - the burden should be on you to prove to me - also if you point at a sunset to cite your source imma scream
Would you scream if I pointed to the sun and said it is the creator and sustainer of all life as we know it and that I could prove it.
Furthermore if you find that watch and go speak to its watchmaker and the watchmaker claims that the watch was divinely inspired, the mere existence of the watch does NOT support that claim either and in no way lends any credibility to subsequent claims by the watchmaker with regards to moral edicts and rules of conduct coming from the same divine source.
Deluded theists making presumptuous arguments incoming.
Lots of them.
Because if you "like" a fairy tale often enough it becomes reality.....
He's hurting feelings from beyond the grave! Marvelous :)
After hearing someone masterfully explaining; why the universe cannot be 6k years old, and still seeing people claiming it is. I give up. It was a good run fellas. Let the morons have this piece of rock.
Carl Sagan is sorely missed.
Not at all!
@@vladbukhman429 Well I guess not if one may happen to be a flat earther or hard core christian, I however was simply stating from my perspective and all those with an interest in science who grew up listening to him.
Earth is now 6 billion years old and there were planty of time to form watch by itself but it didn’t.
@@realinfinity5649 Huh ?? Earth is 4.5 bn years old and I don't understand the rest of your statement.
@@thomasowens5824
Carl was so silly, yes intellectual but silly as a train 🚂
I'm sure God must be orders of magnitude more complex than anything we've known; therefore, who created God?
Let's see if Theists can answer this age-old billion-dollar question
Spoiler Alert: Special pleading fallacy 🤣
That's the same question I was asking to a whole bunch of theist. But, they either ignore my question or turn my question into different meaning😐
God is a 4th dimensional being, there for infinite
@@deason2365 if God is a fourt dimensional being, then God should have another God which will be a fifth dimensional being.
@aparnajana4923 what would the 5th dimension be then? What's above time?
@@aparnajana4923 how could something be beyond infinity?
All I need to do, to figure out who is trying to BULLSHIT me... ask what they are willing to do to me, should I choose to... NOT, believe as they demand...
No you are not asked to do anything, nor to challenge your belief, that is on you, we just find stuff and we don't worry about your feelings that's it, if you believe that the earth is 6 thousands years old I'm just sorry for you
Science doesnt condemn you to eternal hellfire for not believing, cause it doesnt depend on emotional investment to exist. I would rather have questions i cannot yet answer, than answers i cannot question.
"It is called belief because it is not knowledge"
-Christopher Hitchens
@@brutis41 the first question will be... how does you feel to have less sacred things in your miserable alone godless life then us? And then why are you into a cult that leads to nothing? And why you are a part on something that have nothing to offer to us believers, but loneliness?? and finally how can you deny what you do not know or have in your alone godless life? and why God should care about what you think to exist? Go and be honest once in your life you Goddenier.
@@nobs997 the first question will be... how does you feel to have less sacred things in your miserable alone godless life then us? And then why are you into a cult that leads to nothing? And why you are a part on something that have nothing to offer to us believers, but loneliness?? and finally how can you deny what you do not know or have in your alone godless life? and why God should care about what you think to exist? Go and be honest once in your life you Goddenier....
If the world is so complex that it needed to have a creator then that creator must be incredibly complex. So who created the creator?
I remember the watch maker argument from when I was a child. They said "you can't put the parts of a watch in a shoe box, shake it up and get a watch " I will never forget the 😮 I got when I asked what would happen if you put the parts to millions of watches in a box and shook it for billions of years. I was told it was an interesting question, but not a "reasonable" question and they didn't let me ask questions in front of the congregation any longer 😂 my born atheistic, childish logic was too much for the believers.
The watchmaker argument is ridiculous from theist because it's a paradox.
A theist says "the watch is clearly created, it had a maker, the Universe is more complex so therefor that had a maker".
But the issue here like in them being able to tell the difference between made and non made. A watch vs for example a rock. But if their theistic point is correct than a rock was made as well and therefor you nothing is not made so the difference between made and not made can't be drawn, therefor defeating their own point.
Nope
@@grantandrew619 maybe elaborate.
Cause just saying "nope" just makes you look like you want to deny it without having an actual rebuttle....
@@grantandrew619actually its exactly the point. as the watchmaker argument assumes that everything is created. saying a watch is equally as created as a tree stump. while we know and can proof that a watch is created. we can do no such thing with natural things. its why it is called natural. because it occurs naturally
Thats the supernatural part,that's why they say faith because that's the truth. we have our scriptures and recordings and other facts. The leap of faith I think it was just made this for people that ask that question he has already proven carton the only thing left is accednce that's the belief part.i might be wrong but I'll take such leap.
@@joshmcgill4639 scriptures aren't facts....
By that same logic every other holy book would be correct too. And like we know they can't all be correct given that they heavily contradict eachother....
Even within christianity alone scriptures can heavily differ. Even within same translation scriptures can contradict eachother....
Again those are not facts mate. They are written down words with human biasy and current believes. Not neutral historical facts.
Who created God? He must have been created ! Right ? 😂😂😂😂
Humans created every god I've ever heard of.
@@nmappraiser9926 😁 careful with stating the obvious, you might get cancelled 🤣😇
@srb4722 what? You get canceled if you are religious especially Christian
Aways the supernatural part
Love Sagan, miss him too.
Amazingly put together. Carl Sagan is a rare gem.
Was.
Still is, and always will be!
@@oliverpearson1577
@@oliverpearson1577
and you IS petty
@@louseveryann2181 Are.
People bout to be pissed about this. 😂
Chaos is incapable of producing order.
@@Triggerman1976 but given enough time and right things set in motion, disorder creates order, order to disorder.
Example: I drop a glass cup, it shatters. I pick up everything single piece put it into a bin to heat up and create the same structure. It won’t be the same glass as before bc of different microstructures or dimensions but in essence it functions like a cup.
What’s to say about our world, our universe? Things propagate in harmonic resonance but who, what sets them in motion?
@@rray5506 Except, a piece of glass severs an artery and you bleed to death, They bury you in the ground and your body decomposes..!
WHO IS GOING TO PUT YOU BACK TOGETHER AND PUT LIFE BACK INTO YOU so you can mend your broken glass..?!
You KNOW you're taking nonsense, don't you?
Creationists... Are you listening?
Yes. Loud and clear. 🙏
@@Jocky8807😂😂😂
Yhea 🥳 just face the facts people, life on Earth is an Anomaly, we utterly alone in the Universe, no God , no Aliens 😢
Evolution didn't start when the universe started. It started when Earth became habitable and condition were between that of mars and venus. That that not been the case life would be everywhere in the universe
Their thought is still 4000 years old😅.
Genesis apologetics channel. Datations are totally false, as a reseacher I can tell you.
Quantum physics debunks materialism. Video.
Andres Bisonni channel. Mark Hermans channel. Apostle Kathryn Krick channel. The Supernatural Life-daniel adams channel.
Many scientists can prove
To you, you've been lied to.
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost....
And still undefeated..!
@@danielcoetzee5793 by forcing their thought on someone's mind👍
@@danielcoetzee5793
and still coping
I hate the watch metaphor. For one thing the very first watch prolly didn't tell proper time so the watchmaker kept at it til they got it right. So that was around 1500. 400 years later they put a strap on it and it becomes a wrist watch. 70 years later the first LED watch was invented. 15 years after that the Swatch makes an appearance. It shows that just like life, even watches evolve.
You forgot that Fred Flintstone had a sundial for a watch.
@@kaduisaui4596 he also had a living toilet, so uhm yea. LOL
@@FatMadt666 You mean garbage disposal?
@@kaduisaui4596 I was sort of wrong and somewhat right. The toilets were made of stone but somehow a mammoth trunk would rise up and act as a bidet. And since the trunks acted as plumbing "IT" had to go somewhere? Poor mammoths.
@@FatMadt666 Mammoths were used for showering, washing dishes, vacuuming the floors and watering the garden. The cartoon never showed how they used the toilets. We might have to rewatch every episode to verify.
A discussion about the Flintstones is much better than discussing the bible.
The only one who can come up with the watch comparison is your Sunday pastor.
Brian Cox and he are cut from the same cloth. Loved watching the Cosmos when I was a kid
Even the watch has its own evolution. It started out as a humble sun dial. Humans are to the watch as time to evolution.
That is just godless BS... Evolution is no sense and can not explain why and how the life come in the earth. It is incomplete... anyway even Darwin was a godless and Souless alone person so why are???? What have understood that if the universe had a begin there must be an entity (God) made it happen??? BS that only white westerns says and believe it, westerns always the worst and now even in godless version... Atheism leads to nothing and you know it. No respect for you godless alone person and this new cult called atheism that have nothing to offer to is even to us. So sad. Let's hope in a better generation because this one is so lost.
Excellent point! Hadn't thought about it.
@@MK-lh3xd the first question will be... how does you feel to have less sacred things in your miserable alone godless life then us? And then why are you into a cult that leads to nothing? And why you are a part on something that have nothing to offer to us believers, but loneliness?? and finally how can you deny what you do not know or have in your alone godless life? and why God should care about what you think to exist? Go and be honest once in your life you Goddenier...
But the watch evolution - like any other technology - is a result of creators. A creation requires intention.
Evolution, on the other hand, doesn't need need a creator to explain biodiversity. Therefore, it lacks intention. No species - including ours - exist or existed because some entity desired that. It's just a natural phenomena.
Except we don't have any natural watches
Someone didn't understand 😂 damn dude this is stuff taught to 4 year olds and they understand it
@@TheTerribleGamer1 ofc, decieve them when they're young..it's not rocket science, even Christian kids understand this 🤣🤣
@@TheTerribleGamer1living organisms replicate themselves, and in that replication every now and then accidental small changes (mutations) occur, over large timedcales these small changes accumulate and end up being large changes from the original organisms.
Watches, and all other inanimate objects, be they created by us, or by nature (such as rocks or sand) do not replicate themselves, they are not living organisms,.
His is the worst analogy. And you didn't understand why it is a very bad analogy.
Actually we do, the seasons are watches, shadows are watches.
@@Techumsa those replicate?
Although religions are called faiths because they require belief in the absence of evidence, believers are always looking for affirmation of faith. Sometimes they are desperate for it, hence the watchmaker argument. When evolution comes along, they despise it because it does just the opposite, it shows their faith is wrong.
Theists seem to have little or no issues with other scientific theories.
Evolution is the theory that most directly refutes their beliefs
@@michaelburk9171 Actually, I think it is reasonable to believe in both evolution and intelligent design.
@@todradmaker4297 isn't that like being a capitalist and a communist?
@@michaelburk9171 Not at all; it might be that biology was designed to evolve.
@@todradmaker4297 that could be possible.
The theory of evolution explains how species radiate and change over time. But not how life began.
And that's not a weakness. No evolutionary biologist claims it does.
My problem with design/intelligent design is that it's clear there is no intelligence or guidance behind evolution.
Extinctions, cancers, lethal recessive genetic diseases, wisdom teeth, and some dolphins being born with small hind limbs don't show design. They show random mutations that some times give some organism a slight survival and reproductive advantage
Because Evolution is a natural process its progress is on the basis of trial and error. Meaning "it makes mistakes". And these "mistakes" can be CLEARLY OBSERVED in any living thing.
But "gods-believers" only focus on the hits and completely ignore the misses.
Laryngeal Nerve has entered the chat.
the whole "a watch must have a watchmaker" argument is like, the highest level of idiocy.
"if one thing has one property, then that must mean an entirely different thing must also have that property!" if i plant a seed a tree will grow, therefore if i plant a lego a lego tree will grow
Denying God is the highest level of idiocy
@@SharriffRahman6b6b i agree, denying zeus is the highest level of idiocy.
oh wait, not that one? guess youre an idiot now :/
You don't like the watchmaker argument because you only chose to be logical when it suits you and you have "logic" in you favor..!
You turn it "on" and turn it "off" at your sole discretion...!
Your analogy of the "Lego tree" is actually the "highest level of idiocy". Who ever suggested that...! Not us..!
You lay words in our mouths and create a strawman argument which is easy to defeat..!
No one suggest that you plant a lego block..! You're the one that did it...!
@@SharriffRahman6b6bclaiming God is real is the most idiotic thing you could do. Try saying I don't know from time to time. Would save you a ton of effort
Man! I miss this dude.
You can hug him when you join him in the place where he is at now..!; you'll join him soon enough..!
@@danielcoetzee5793 Cool! Thanks! 😁👍
Only one thing with
Sagan on this. Darwin had no idea what the 'process' of evolution was . This wasn't discoverd until 1953 by Crick and Watson so Darwin's theory was absolutely confirmed this makes his theory even more credible but he did not know the process .just the fact .
I like how dillahunty put it once. We recognize design by contrasting with nature. X occurs naturally y does not occur naturally. We recognize y as design
I just love his voice
That does not make him necessarily right.
@@romuluscerchez2883 No, his argumentation makes him right.
Such shallow, stupid thinking.
@@romuluscerchez2883
you're coping makes you pathetic
what would a "supreme being" want with a pathetic child?
Almost anything we propose is eventually discovered to be incorrect---even our limited concepts about a Creator.
even the alledged Creator itself
@@Shrektus We don't know!
@@ralphstarling6707 We know some things, and we know enough to call out bullshit
You are welcome to believe whatever you wish!😊
@@ralphstarling6707the believers believe. The skeptics think.
yeh but crazy people will believe whatever was put in their heads by their crazy parents...
Or money/fame crazed scientists. 🤪
Sagans 'billion' 😊😊 i miss that
The thing is that it’s technically possible for a watch to spontaneously appear with our current understanding of physics 😂
Technologically possible and mathematically impossible
Just very unlikely
How, that's supernatural 😑
only in your dreams 😁
"Spontaneously"? Maybe on the same basis that if one puts a monkey in front of a Keyboard... then eventually, by random hitting of the keys .. it will write, word for word, the works of Shakespeare... Take a very long time mine you.. A few billion years.. You don't beleive that? You don't beleive that the lottery result one day will be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7....Nah "never" happen, right? 🤔🙄😱
If inside a watch there was still a sundial and the remnants of other time pieces that have appeared over the evolution of watches, you could more accurately compare a watch to a living organism.
But a watch is designed and therefore composed only of parts designed for it and exists independently of previous time pieces.
None of that can be said of living organisms
Evolution isn't contrary to God. Studying a painting doesn't disprove its painter.
The biblical narrative does not describe that the earth is 6000 years old.
I complete agree with Sir Sagan, huge fan actually. I pretty much do think of it the same way, that all life whether it be the microorganisms or the most complex life forms are consequences of evolution from all the organic and inorganic elements found in nature. That being said, given enough time complex life would appear in vastly different combinations.
But the fact that we still do not know from where all the known and unknown elements have come, we cannot say for sure that a Creator doesn’t exist for sure. For about antimatter, dark matter etc etc. We cannot even tell how the normal matter is formed out of nowhere. And some believes the Creator is God where as some believes to be some Advanced civilisation that created this Simulation, if you know what I mean
Yeah but the point is not to say that a creator doesn't exist. Just to say that it doesn't necessarily exist. It doesn't necessarily follow from observation that a creator of the universe exists like it follows from a watch or a cellphone.
It might... We just don't know, and maybe cannot know.
We don't know yet..
Sure, you can try to cram a god into any gaps in our scientific knowledge. The issue is that this gap is becoming smaller and smaller as science progresses. In the end, you wind up with one tiny god.
@@unduloid I do not believe in god and you are right that god is often a god of the gaps. But your line of thinking I think doesn't work quite well. Because it is true that as our knowledge increases the gaps diminish in some areas. But in reality overall the opposite is true. The more we know the more questions we have about all the specific subjects we study and the deeper we go the more our theories tend to fail. The questions begin to be more fundamental. And so it might be true that we don't believe in a god of the sun or the plants, i don't think this diminishes the power of god, quite the opposite. Now people believe in more fundamental gods that answer more grand questions of science, and so they actually end up feeling more strongly about it. To the point that some gaps are so deep that we are not even sure that science could ever answer them, like questions regarding quantum mechanics and uncertainty principles. Previously it was enough to find out how storms form or how the sun moved across the sky to just drop the god. Now the existence of God becomes more and more unverifiable as science goes on. Doesn't mean that you should believe in him, just that the gaps are getting bigger and deeper, more fundamental and so also the appreciation for this ultra deep God that explains all of them. Gaps won't cease to exist, they would just become larger and more fundamental each step we take
@@diegog1853
Inventing gods just to pave over out lack of knowledge seems like a fool's errand to me.
Much more elegant argument than the intelligent design
There was no argument there at all. Just a false assumption that given enough time, anything is possible. This is childish reasoning.
@@jjwinn2495 Carl Sagan had the wit of a few civilisations
Darwin was a beliver i think he never refuse the existence of God , just the way life evolves
The teleological argument it’s already been refuted 1000 times. The reason you picked up the watch is because you’ve seen watches before and know for a fact there made by man you can go into a watch factory and see how they are built you can’t do that with god not to mention that god would be infinitely more complex than anything in the universe so by the same logic he too would require a creator
RIP Sagan
But what about the Baby Jebus? I thought the BABY JEBUS did it all!!?!? 😂
Hooray Jewish Zombie 😺
There are thousands of gods
Thank you!!!❤
Sadly however, many still believe in a creator.
Worse yet, many still lie, discriminate, hate and murder for their imaginary creator.
The brainwashed and feeble minded
Sadly, many think this man and scientists have proved that there is no Creator.
They haven't
Sagan: no god
God: Hello
@@hobartchapel9515 No scientist, including Carl, has ever wasted a single moment trying to prove god doesn't exist, or saying so, because it's impossible to prove what doesn't exist... Proof of the existence of any god is down to the claimant .......
@@foreversurf1ngthenet you can feel the pain but you can't see the pain it mean the pain doesn't exists? God should be felt within yourself.
So many people will have their little bubble burst!😂
Let me explain abiogenesis very simply
Every English book you've ever read is just a combination of the same 26 letters
And most stuff around you - people, trees, cars, houses - are just patterns of arrangement of the same 118 elements and 3 fundamental particles (up quarks, down quarks, electrons)
While rolling a dice you have no control over which face ends up on top, but you just keep on randomly rolling till you get six dots eventually
Similarly particles and elements keep on randomly arranging and rearranging themselves in all sorts of possible patterns and the perfect pattern for life eventually arises over time, without needing an intelligent creator
Another appropriate analogy would be password hacking - it's not about knowing the right combo, it's about trying all combos
The thing is, there isn't enough evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a God. So this can never be settled unless we find some new evidence
On point Mr. Sagan.
Time cannot create anything
No, that’s chemistry you’re thinking of. Try again.
Mike drop, please all faith leaders pack up and sell your gold and give to the poor and go away
Point of view I heard once that was interesting was “Someone programs a fractal to create vast quantities of shapes and designs. The programmer didn’t tediously design every single detail of the patterns, those came into their own, but there was a programmer who input the computation to create the vast amounts of variations.” I’m not telling anyone what to believe but that viewpoint allows people to believe in “a creator” and “the existence of starving children” simultaneously because instead of a “god” who tediously designed every atom of life it’s more like an artist splashing paint against a canvas and shrugging when some of the paint drips off.
Sounds like you're referring to a deistic god
No you are wrong. Millions of different circumstances lead millions of biological forms to develop independently and therefore, no creator is required. You are merely clutching at straws.
And who made the watchmaker? A watchmaker can’t come from nothing.
Nope, but there must be a causeless cause. If there is not and the universe is not infinitely old (as was revealed by the CMBR), then there must be what Aristotle called the “unmoved mover.” The one that is a cause and yet has no cause. Theists call this first cause God
@@JacksTheater Special pleading nonsense. It's just making an exception for this so called god for no reason. The same could apply to the universe, but somehow you don't even entertain this idea, simply because you so desperately want your fairy tale figure to be true.
@@JacksTheaterbut the start of the universe can be it’s own unmoved mover. What then?
@@JacksTheater that's the deist argument that you pointed out. The theist argument is that this unmoved mover runs the universe and interferes in human affairs. There is a huge leap from deism to theism.
Nor can a God.
So eloquently stated. A treasure in man's history.
Lol. You are wrong. As is Sagan. Darwin did not have the scientifical facts at the time. Especially not the cambrian explosion, Einstein's relativity theory, the discovery of the DNA, the fact that time, soace and matter had a beggining, the way a cell is assembled, the mathematical calculus that shows there was not enough time for evolution to take place...
“I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science.” (Charles Darwin, 1800’s Evolution Theorist, in a Letter to Asa Gray June 18, 1857)
Charles Darwin: "(Since) innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them imbedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?" Origin of Species, p. 162. "Why is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain: and this perhaps is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory." Origin of Species, p. 293.
Pure genius ❤
That's what you call genius, lol? That is pure stupidity. That is logic and reason gone out the window. Coocoo