Group B's Mysterious Final Crash - Henri Toivonen
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2023
- Previously on this channel, we've already discussed arguably the largest crash of the Group B,
which was in 1986, in Portugal.
In the immediate aftermath of that incident, there was already discussion of drastic changes needing to be made, especially due to the number of spectators being caught in the action.
Footage Credit:
• Tour de Corse 1986 new...
• Video
• Accidente de Henri Toi...
The final nail in the coffin came shortly after, at the 1986 tour de corse,
when Henry Toivonen and Sergio Cresto both lost their lives to one of the most dramatic
crashes in racing history.
This, is Group B Rally's Final Crash.
Henri Toivonen was a finnish rally driver, born in 1956 into a family of skilled professional drivers. His father, Pauli, was the european rally champeon for porsche in 1968, and his brother Harri found a fufilling career as a circuit racer.
The Toivonen family were exceptionally talented drivers, even in one of the most fiercely competitive areas in the world for racing.
Naturally, Henri was brought up around racing, and he learned to drive when he was just 5 years old. Although going into rally seems like the natural progression he would have taken, he actually first discovered his love of racing through competing in circuit racing. Starting in karts, and moving up over the years, Henri won the finnish cup in touring cars,
and then moved over to formula vee and then super vee.
Interestingly, Toivonen's parents became concerned about the safety of this series, and this is what ultimately led to his shift into rallying instead.
After making the switch to rallying full time instead of Karts, Toivonen's Kart was sold by his family to Mika Hakkinen's parents. Mika was 6 at the time. When they say everyone in Finland can drive, they mean it.
Over the course of the following several years,
Henri went from strength to strength in the rally scene,
before landing his first contract with a major car maker in the 1980 season, where he raced in a Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. He'd shown a lot of skill, but was known to take risks, crashing often which cost the team considerably. Talbot still saw Toivonen as a brilliant driver though, and opted to pair him with a range of co drivers over the season.
Keeping Henri was a worthwhile investment for Talbot, after he won the Lombard RAC Rally, alongside his co-driver Paul White. Henri and Paul weren't even in consideration for being potential
winners of this rally, so this shock result was huge news in the scene.
Even Toivonen himself didn't expect a win.
In 1983, Henri got a win at the Manx national rally, on his first attempt.
He also won the mille pistes rally in France, although the event's organisers banned Group B cars halfway through.
Then, in 1984 he had the privilege of driving a legendary 911 SC with the iconic Rothman's livery in
that year's season.
After a mixed start, he won 5 rallies in a row in the European rally championship, coming second overall.
Henri's career under Lancia began in 1985, where he was put at the wheel of a 037. The season didn't begin particularly well, after he smashed into a brick wall in the European championship, which gave him a serious back injury, and 3 broken neck vertebrae. In August that year, Henri was back behind the wheel, coming fourth at the 1000 lakes rally.
Henri didn't get on particularly well with the comparatively underpowered Lancia, and he was happy when it got replaced by the legendary delta s4, just in time for the season's last
race. Although the claim's hard to verify, the S4 was thought be be capable of 0-60 in barely over 2 seconds, even on a gravel road.
The S4 suited Henri much better, and he won the final rally of the season with it. His final season, 1986, began much better than the year prior.
With a Monte Carlo Rally win alongside his co-driver, an American by the name of Sergio Cresto, cemented the pair as a favourite to win the series. Unfortunately, after a retirement from the Swedish rally and a withdrawal from the infamous Portugal rally, which we've covered before, the title was still anyone's to claim, although Henri continued to remain a favourite, especially with the dominant Lancia at his disposal. The 1986 Tour De Corse, ended up tragically being Henri's last race. The rally, held on the island of Corsica, was notoriously challenging to navigate, with tight corners and a mountainous backdrop.
The rally began on the first of may.
Toivonen had been under the weather in the lead up to the event, reportedly having a flu and a sore throat.
Rather than pulling out and resting, Henri really wanted to race, especially since the championship lead had been taken. - Zábava
It wasn't only crash itself but how Lancia treated Henri's family after it was a disgrace often not talked about.
Lancia were way overly obsessed with chasing titles, they also were furious at the withdrawal in portugal after the huge crash into the spectators iirc
@9.45 there is an image clearly showing skid marks going off the edge of the road and to the crash site . . . It just goes to show that in spite of clear evidence of something if the internet decides something then facts and evidence doesn't really matter.
Yeah your right, diffo skid marks and maybe some rust there on the right, could of been a steering issue or is it from the tow truck in the thumbnail 🤔
Skid marks on the concrete and into the grass
There's a good chance those are the drag marks of the chassis being pulled out after the crash. To think you could figure out from an old picture something that experts, true experts didn't see is a real stretch and a bit arrogant.
@@racer0316drag marks ? When they draged the burnt car with only the chassis left ? Nothing was left on the car due to the fire
@@bfc3057 I don't know why your so offended by me saying one look at an old picture doesn't tell the story and if true crash investigators couldn't definitely tell what happened but all the you tube experts think they know the facts tells me who's looking at this through a clear lens and an open mind and who's not. All I said was I don't know for sure and nobody else on here does either. Nothing to be butt hurt about.
Those spectator deaths in Portugal were extremely tragic, but they weren't the fault of Group B. They were caused by the complete absence of crowd control in Portuguese rallies. If you look at earlier footage from Rallye Portugal (say, the late '70s), you'll see the exact same thing - spectators obscuring the road and moving aside at the last possible moment.
The only contributing factor, that was a result of the group B cars, is they made such good watching.
Not just Portugal, I used to see it at many Rallies on TV. My mum and I used to comment on it quite a bit.
@johnbower7452 - yes you're right. But it seemed to me at the time that Portugal was always the worst for that.
you are defenetly one of the most underrated car historiean youtubers. keep it up. ypu will get out big one day man!
Thank you so much, means a lot to hear that
Loving the videos brotha recently found your channel loving the documentary on racing history as i have a huge passion for racing and motorsport history in general.
Fantastically clear and informative video. Really nicely put together. 👍
Appreciate your awesome vids.
Keep up the good work mate - Cheers.
They said there were no skid marks but i can clearly see them at 9:45
Great job. You covered this story with a level of respect and dignity that other channels have not shown. The writing was great, the editing was great, and you have a nice voice to listen to. Keep it up.
Thank you so much! That' the nicest comment I've had :)
A cultured English voice always wins out...
I saw Henri when i was a lad in the Circuit of Ireland 1984 - he was driving the Prodrive run Rothmans Porsche 911 SC RS A974 BRX - He had a karting accident half way through and then the Porsche got jammed in 5th gear - I remember the mechanics trying to change the box outside Sligo at 2am - They ran out of time but i recall them with the engine and gearbox on the floor !! Thanks for reminding me ! Great video.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing that :) You're very lucky
Litteral chills man, what a great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've been in an ex group B delta... It was a cardboard box and if it was not Henry, it would have been someone else. I love group B cars, i don't miss group B at all. As impressive as it was, as talented as the drivers were, death waited at every stage, and that's not soemthing we should miss.
You're going to allow me to correct one detail: Toivonen is hired by Lancia the same year that he also races with Richards' Porsche in the European Rally Championship: the year 1984, which he almost won. Which was truly crazy, racing in the same year at the World and European Championships at the same time. That was perhaps the biggest mistake of his career. Obviously he could not run all the World Cup races if the dates coincided with the European races where he did have a chance of victory. In the end "he who covers a lot, squeezes little" as they say in my country
It would also be necessary to assess a series of circumstances regarding his accident in Corsica that for me have not been sufficiently valued, apart from the terrible passive safety of the cars.
On the one hand, the marathon rally that was the Tour de Corse at that time, stages of up to 80 km. some, super slow and winding that took more than 1 hour to travel in exhausting legs, with these cars that were so stressful to pilot (turbo engines of almost 480 HP in that rally, achieving up to 550 HP at the end of the season for both Lancia and Peugeot, not 600 as you say), so in any regrouping they needed the assistance of physiotherapists .
And then there is a reason that is also little talked about: the serious irresponsibility of team boss, Cesare Fiorio; It's said that he was even forced to run by contract with a strong flu and medicated, I prefer to be prudent and to say that Fiorio allowed him to run in physical circumstances that were inadvisable for competing. In fact, there is a revealing detail that is told, and that is that when he went to get in his car in the parc fermé, he made a mistake and got into the car of one of his companions, I don't know if in Alén's car or in the Biasion, which it denoted his state of lethargy due to medication effects.
"El que mucho abarca, poco aprieta", ¿eh?
Another little-known fact about Toivonen was that in the lead-up to his death, he confided in close friends that he was suffering from micro-blackouts as a result of injuries he'd received in earlier rallies - particularly his serious neck injury he'd sustained in the 1985 Costa Smeralda rally which was part of the European Championship. He deliberately kept this to himself as he would have been at serious risk of having his competition licence suspended and hence lost his place in the Lancia Team.
@@bugattieb110ssI also heard that story.
@@bugattieb110ssyeah, we (unlike you) actually watched the video.
1986 might have been the worst year in rally history. Portugal, Toivonen und Surer's crash at the Hessen-Rally were absolutely horrific.
I was 10 when the group B started, for a Finnish kid it was truly the golden years of rallying, and Henri was my hero, still is, I am a big rally fan. Great job, I subscriped.
Awesome video
Great video mate. Subbed 👍
Much appreciated!
Great video man the deltas are some of my most favorites rally cars thanks for the this great video now I know much more of its history and the drivers
Your videos are so good!! You are going to be big one day. I am sure about that
And even then it wasn't the last Group B death, with Marc Surer's accident in the ERC round in Hessen with the RS200 burning his codriver Michel Wyder alive
The quality of these videos is insane
Thank you so much, glad you keep coming back :)
In the McKlein Group B book, which is excellent if you can find a copy, John Davenport raises the issue of toluene and other fuel additives that were definitely being used in F1 fuel at the time as an octane booster, and probably in the WRC too. (It's the magic substance that let BMW hit the magic 1400bhp figure that used to be boasted about.)
Toluene builds up in the body and acts aa a sedative, and can render a person unconscious. When you consider that the S4's fuel tanks were right under the seats, and that fuel cell tech was not being used, it doesn't take too many leaps of logic before you see the possibility that any leakage into the cabin, say a hairline crack in the tank, and a build-up of fumes may have put Henri to sleep before he left the road.
I didn’t remember paying for CZcams premium.
There is clear evidence in the photo shown at about 30 seconds that the fuel tank was punctured by the broken and crushed chassis (not tree limbs), as reported at the time.
The same photo is shown around 17 minutes, and it indicates that the car landed on its tail, not roof.
9:40 am I crazy? there's clearly tire marks in this image, leading straight off the cliff...
I remember those times, intensely exciting but yes very very dangerous indeed. RIP Henri!
Watch the movie Henri, even at the monte Carlo rally, the S4 burned out its front brakes every stage and suffered severe understeer at high speed. Plus the driver and co driver sat on the fuel tank, the S4 needed more testing and alterations
your underrated,remember me when your famous
Bro I love your videos
Interesting film, thank-you. Your narrative makes a pleasant change from the US-style hyperbole and BS. Ironically, it fell to Alfa Romeo (with an Auto Delta GTV) to secure a win at that rally, a name with strong motorsport connections but not in rallying. RIP Henri and Sergio.
May they rest in peace. Unfortunate group B had to end in a tragedy.
very high horsepower, which the suspensions, brakes, tires, and even the frames could not manage properly. that's why all the drivers who raced the group B cars were tremendous drivers. they were literally struggling to drive these beasts
great to see another video from blags 👍 RIP Henri Toivonen
Glad you enjoyed it
My favorite car-related youtuber. Extremely underrated
The fuel tank was puntured by a broken chassis tube, not a tree limb. That was what was reported at the time.
Would you want to do a video about TT rider Jarno Saarinen’s fatal crash (plus Renzo Pasolini’s) at the 1973 Nations GP in Monza?
The Group B reminds me to the Formula 1 of 1967, when the Cars had no wings and about 600hp.
These were death traps!
His last words were chilling. Why did group B end? Your brains cant keep up.
Rest in Peace
Nice vid, also you sound like Ashley Neal.
Lancia spirited away the remaining lancias out of the island b4 scrutineers could check them, a well known and respected motoring journalist had been following lancia around, asked a mechanic why they changed the fire extinguishers at every service halt, the mechanic said sheepishly, for safety, rumours circulated that nitrous oxide had been put into the extinguishers for more power, totally illegal, one point about group a being quicker, yes, on short twisty roads, hannu still holds records on a few 1000 lakes rally stages.... great video tho
I’ve never understood why spectators are allowed to stand on the outside of corners where they are directly in the path of the cars if they loose control.
Lack of awareness in those days
@@d1want34 I think there’s more to it. They must get some kind of thrill being so close to the cars as they scream by in a drift…getting pelted with dirt and stones. Insane to me but I’m not a Rally fan.
I've heard a bunch of theories on the crash. It could have been a health problem (blacking out or something) or a simple driver's error (anything from judging the corner incorrectly to misshearing a pace note), or a co-driver's error (calling a wrong pace note or even incorrectly writing it during the recce). Could have been a technical problem like a brake failure or the mentioned stuck throttle. I've also heard a theory about the team forgetting to change one of the tires during service, which may have caused the accident (like a sudden tire failure).
Who knows what really happened. He apparently had a big lead, so he didn't have to push. Perhaps if he went a little slower or if the car had a skid plate, it could have been a very different story for the duo and for Group B. They would have probably been champions that year. But even if they survived, the thunder would strike somewhere else. Group B was simply not sustainable and it likely wouldn't last more than 2 years longer. It was becoming too expensive, some manufacturers were quitting and it was obviously very dangerous (and not really popular with the drivers, I assume, since they found the cars too fast), both in terms of crew safety and spectator safety. I think Group S would be more of the same. As great as it was, killing it was the right thing to do and Group A was just what rallying needed.
Can you make a video about karl wendlingers crash at monaco 94?
They didn’t call them the “killer Bs” for nothing. Insane
Black outs, sticking throttle, dangerous course, car with too much power with a driver who took too many risks. What did you expect to happen.
Honestly I feel nothing for the crowds involved. Yes people, get in the way of the car barreling at 90+ mph you're all just superman
In memory Toivonen Crespo S4 😢
You can clearly see skid marks on the road leading straight off the edge , never heard so much nonsense , don’t please use their own senses when it comes to things like this, he is clearly under the weather and not himself in footage prior to the accident. The fans in the mid eighties were crazy and were the demise of the sport they loved. I know I was out there at all hours and weathers . Portugal was always ridiculous spectator wise
Nothing comes close to the legendary Group B....
How can you mention Group A cars and not mention the Lancia Delta integrale!!
True, true
6:20 oh, I've never seen the clip of the accident.
only heard there is one in other videos... I never searched for it, though.
really f'd up. especially, when you consider what he said the day before -.-
EDIT: I'm confused, now. you said there is a video but it didn't surface? O___o
yeah, it didn’t seem like there’s footage of them losing traction, only moments afterwards so it’s hard to tell exactly why they crashed
@@blagssss aight
Btw what is the most scariest rally car ever made in your opinion?
Group B is legendary but don’t try to start something like it. It will just end with unnecessary death
9:47 there's clearly a skidmark visible..
There are fucking skid marks right after the curve into the grass and off the edge. Am i fucking loosing my mind or?
They were not only too powerfull but were also not very safe cars.. after group b era fia concentrate on safety ...RIP Henri &Sergio .
It's just silly to say the cars were to powerful for the course because you have a choice race safely or recklessly and if wining means more to you than your life you make your choice and pay the price that is in no way the cars fault
Actually Toivonen had no choice, but to start. His widow told that they got a letter from Lancia, that if the drivers themselves refuse to start, they would be sacked.
Having the drivers blood type on the side of the car is so bad ass
In sad ill never know what real racing and competition is not saying none of the races nowadays are bad but the stories i hear from back in the day i wish i was late 30s not 16 😂😢
henri was top
incredible driver, especially at such a young age compared to many of his competitors
the bodies were actually found away from the car. this has been left out of all FIA investigations, yet widely talked about by the other drivers ever since.
his co driver survived but henri not so much..
A stuck throttle being a "known issue" on a rally car (let alone a group B) and still allowing it to race? Sounds... implausible, to be diplomatic.
If you want to read about the (many) downsides of the S4 definitely check this out. It was a legendary but highly temperamental beast:
rallygroupbshrine.org/the-group-b-cars/rally-cars/lancia-delta-s4/
@@blagssss Thanks, will do! I was just a kid back then, times were different (not all to the bad though)
Nothing mysterious. Delta had so weak construction that every morw serious crash was potentially fatal.
Cars too powerful for the course? Well, use 75% of the throttle then and stay alive
Or fix the course and cars and allow drivers to race properly
They complained and banned group B. But look how WRC cars are developing these days...are they not becomming the same?
I think the roll cage was filled with NOS that why it went up so quick and why lancia removed the car so quickly which was also illegal
Maybe go back to school and study chemistry.
ÕMĞ é PôWéŘ-PhÛľĽ
Modern cars are more powerfull and faster. Modern crowds are little better,, and then organisers put spectator areas right in the line of a crashing car. Rallying is really plain stupid in all its forms, offroading as well as Targa events. More people killed in those three than any other area of motorsport.
I am a road racer, and do the occasional hillclimb [and safety there can be an issue] as well as playing dirt speedway. Where there is fire crews, ambulances and fences to keep the cars out of the crowd.
Modern rally cars are not more powerful, a typical 4-wheel-drive Group R5 car has 310 HP and weights around 1100kg, front-wheel-drive R2 around 220HP. They achieve faster times thanks to vastly improved handling, curtesy of 30 years more advanced tires, and suspension. Not to mention modern rally cars don't use manual gearbox
Modern rally cars dont use manual gearboxes?? That is except for the majority that do. I am not talking dreamworld championship cars but the more normal cars. And many of those have manuals as well.
And all of these cars are downright dangerous, as is the whole sport. Us road racers are heavily subsidising your liability insurance. Try getting insurance for rallying on its own,, would not happen. @@kireta21
Why can nobody pronounce Lancia correctly
I went to a group B style rally late 90s .. nearly got deleted rolling one back on its wheels
Exhausted driver from flu and probably affected by medicine " may cause drowsiness do not operate machinery etc." Way car was destroyed is an eye opener. As to too fast, the modern rally cars are faster, indeed many road cars are faster today than the B cars were then.
Group A is great, but it isn't Group B. It isn't just the speed but the danger, the man v machine, how edgy it was. Was it worth peoples' lives? Not saying that, but like F1 in the 1960s or Isle of Man TT today there something about 'death defying' spectacle. There's a romance to it. As racing has become safer it has lost a little bit of that something that made it one of the only three real sports: Mountain Climbing, Bull Fighting, and Motor Racing (as stated by Hemingway 'everything else is just a game'). You had to be more than a good driver to race Group B, you had to have real balls. And for anyone who says 'Hey Michael Mutton' she had more balls than this whole comment section combined.
They often had fake roll bars too in group B super thin walled tube bearly taking its load and weight let alone impack
Cars are much faster, safer and with higher cornering speeds now. We are as close to group B if not beyond it now
Great cars, but perhaps too hard to drive on those roads. And can we all learn to pronounce the name of the car properly? It is not "Lawn-see-ya". It is "Lan-cha". One of the great marques, and sad to see that it's been reduced to a local Italian city car.
Cars are going faster these days than then. Poor spectator behaviour never happened in UK just abroad as the Marshalls did nothing about it. In UK no standing anywhere on the outside of any corner and stages were cancelled if the crowds didn’t follow the rules.
The Lombard tour of Britain Rally was the last proper rally anywhere. No pace notes or practice allowed, all driven blind and the rally was a full 5 day and night affair.
I used to go watch it for 6 years courtesy of an entry pass to all stages. You could watch 1 in 3 stages generally and covered around 1000 miles in those 5 days. Brilliant times.
The Corsica crash was a direct result of it being a pace note rally and he was going far too fast to make the corner.
Man, watching the Stratos round the Great Orme and through Keilder. I was once allowed to drive the Sunbeam Lotus built for pacenoting the Manx, what an experience that was. It was supposed to be a standard car: not even close 😀
Mystery? Lift off oversteer followed by pendulum effect.
What about the RS200 outdated Sierra chassis death trap, Should've designed the chassis fresh start totally new,not redesign old technology
You can see the skidmarks at 09:45??
1986 was bad but you have to remember that in 1985, a year before Henri's death, Attilio Bettega: died at he same event exactly a year earlier, also in a Lancia as well and that in many ways shook the sport just as much as 1986 did.
I've read in various sources Toivonen was taking medication for his flu however and yes I've run across those claims before, IIRC wasn't one of the videos on the old tbk.fameflame boards or similar ones?
-85 bettega car number was 4, -86 toivonen car number was 4. 😢