There was always this mystique type of feeling the first games had when it came to atmosphere, it seemed the only people that ever knew about the zombies and 115 were a handful of people and most of those people were already dead or gone to begin with. It felt like it was those 4 people in every map against everything else that Group 935 left behind. Extremely closed off feeling.
Nailed it. Each map had urban legends implemented discreetly. Also we didnt get super detailed radios, and cyphers. The radios we got were cryptic. So much to draw from with very little. Now it feels like a spec ops mission collabed w zombies
Man, I remember thinking "I wonder what kind of crazy shit they're going to do next" during the BO1 - BO4 days. Now all that stuff is gone because some people complained about it.
This is the best thing I’ve listened too in awhile. Milo please never stop. We.. yes we.. need your no nonsense break downs. I love this shit.. Mr. Master chef “ I’m cooking something” Milo !!
I just realized, the great journey from halo is just like the great war from codzombies. It was built up as this big idea but just turned out to be a suicide mission in both cases.
Its like the radio in Der Reise, when you hear Maxis trying to control the zombies, makes you think who is the true evil the Zombies or the Nazis and subjects like that really tickle my pickle of storys that make you think about a subject like Samanthas story in Black Ops and World at War, a little girl who has been basically tortured and ended up controlling the undead is just prime badshit which I love
Yeah, I’ve always felt that stories that make the viewer/reader think are extremely enriching, because in a way it pushes us toward introspection and self-awareness. From experience, I’ve loved stories that through the character(s) and story, they reflect the craziness of human nature, where we feel like we can relate. For me, wanting there to be more of a deeper meaning, and realizing there isn’t, is kind of discouraging, which is honestly how I felt about Zombies recently. Now, it really just feels like a game and not a story. 😢
I know I'm late, but your fresh view on a story I've grown distant with really helped put things into perspective for me. The rigid militarification (is that a word?) of zombies put me off getting lost in the story like before. Having the redemption arc of Richtofen and seeing the humanity and remorse of a terrible person was such a compelling narrative!
When I was 16 years old coming home from school seeing the Easter eggs getting finished in bo3 zombies and seeing the cutscene was such a beautiful moment in my life. I haven’t had any story capture me like cod zombies has and I just think everything that comes out now is such a far cry from what it once was and I have less hope every year that we will ever have that again
Bro you are spitting FACTS about the fear for the future. You absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why I don’t care for zombies story anymore. There are no REAL stakes. It’s all about fake PMC’s and launch codes and military. That’s not fun. Stopping Ancient evil and interrupting dark rituals and growing with the characters along the way are what made the original zombies story sooo good.
It makes me incredibly happy to hear you talking so passionately. I think you’ve basically said everything I could have. It feels like they’re scared of taking risks to be interesting and it took the soul out of what made the story so enthralling.
I want to see what Eddie and Peck been cooking all these years. Seeing Weaver and the rest of the requiem heads dead is likely he got revenge against him. As Peck, we’ll see.
Exactly what you talked about is why I've gotten into stories like the og zombies and more recently Destiny. The lore of the Hive is so similar to what you talked about on finding purpose in the universe and the unending hunger some have. Really hope Treyarch listens to this because I would love to be invested in zombies again. It's been a huge part of my life and is why I want to get into narrative design as a career. Love the video!
Imma be honest... watching this video has made me realize that listening to you speak is very relaxing. It is something that many youtubers in the zombies community have shared for me is that, their videos have a very cozy feeling. Whether it's you or Lex; TheRelaxingEnd or JC, or anyone else. Your videos give me refuge from the rest of life and I am eternally grateful that you have been in my life for these past 8 or so years. Thank you Milo, and keep going, for your sake and ours.
@@VironixPsn I agree vanguard is the laziest and most unrewarding thing I’ve ever played there’s no cool easteregg to grind out there’s no cool wonderweapons and the perk system is just boring
To be fair, like Milo said himself it’s the start of a new story where as BO3 and BO4 were ending stories. Getting the fundamentals down and core characters are going to take longer than ending a story.
@@Ermac43technically BO4 was ending stories plus beginning stories. In the same way they had to lay ground work in Cold War, they had to build something from the ground up with the Chaos story in BO4, and IMO it was just starting to get intriguing when they cut it off abruptly, concluding the Chaos story after just 4 maps. I don't think the community gave the Chaos story a fair shake in that regard. I mean 2 of those 4 maps were some of the best maps we've had in Zombies period with IX and Ancient Evil
I totally agree on the military guff. The fact that the Primis/Ultimis crew had military backgrounds always felt secondary to the enjoyment of their characters, especially as the story became greater in scope and started to interweave the interdimensional stuff into it. There was always a bigger picture, and BO3's greatest success was its capacity to keep its eye on that bigger picture while also somehow delivering upon some unusually personal storytelling that was localised to each individual crew member themselves. For more on that, look no further than the story behind Zetsubou no Shima. You brain starts to switch off a bit when that gets replaced with super cool army squad X and their super cool army guys who get dropped in by chopper and have a super cool army man on the intercom throwing super cool army words at you.
I'm always taken aback (In the best possible way) when Milo randomly brings up Halo. Brings a huge smile to my face hearing someone I've been watching for a decade now (still can't believe it's been that long) talk about something so close to my heart. Loved the vid Milo, keep up the great work.♥
I’m here for my cooked waffles 🧇 And I agree I think what made the old school zombies so amazing was the mystery and joining our heroes through the journey like when Sam got Fluffy teleported and being like OH that’s where Hell hounds come from. Or finding Maxis on the Moon and some how they were able to connect literally everything like you said. character connection is also so important where we truly care about everyone. Also in a way they made the story feel like it could continue forever even when it looked like the story was completed there was still more to come.
I feel that you are also tapping into the general sense I think most of us have that gaming shifting from niche to mainstream has driven the development of games that are much more accessible to everyone, and part of what's being traded away is the catering to the emotional connections that we all build through much more immersive storytelling. The zombies community is huge and an amazing group of people, but we do represent a small portion of the overall Call of Duty community for which the entire game is being developed for. In this specific case, there is more of a motivation for the creation of a zombies mode that multi-player or Warzone players might feel interested in trying, and not so much to cater to those of us who really want to dive into the niche world of zombies that we have grown so attached to.
I love the way you were able to convey exactly how a lot of us feel with zombies. I remember how vague and mystic the zombie universe was back in BO1. It built up more than I believe we all ever thought. I am happy to see Eddie and Sam in the dark Aether story because it feels like the perfect handoff especially after Tag. Now it seems thrown off like you said, very not enticing ya know? Seeing zombies coming back to MW3 is definitely gonna make me get the game bc I gotta SCRATCH that itch. Hats off to you Chefolio Milo 😂
MrRoflWaffles I only came on board with zombies with Cold War but I would never have appreciated CoD Zombies as much if it weren't for you so I have to say thanks so much for your great work on all this, I really appreciate you please keep up your great work
You're cooking. I think the biggest thing that made zombies was the mythism and the unknown, feeling small in a bigger world out there. and it's been completely stripped.
To oversimplify what I think you're saying... The Aether storyline, while being nonsensical and confusing and, at times, conveluded... Had character. Not just characters, but character. This person is doing this because they are like this. Cold War, Vanguard, and now MW3 Zombies, have operators. Which means that the people completing the easter eggs, playing the map, aren't relevant to the story in an intimate way. Even if Takeo or Dempsey didn't have much "to do" in something like Gorod Krovi, you knew how they felt about things going on by the quotes and dialogue between them. You could imagine how they would react to things and events in the future. They were people. Imagine Cold War, but you actually played as Weaver. HE investigates Die Maschine, HE shuts it down, HE saves Maxis from the Dark Aether, HE stands by and watches her sacrifice herself. You get to see his emotions and his reactions to everything. You would know what he's going through and sympathise with him. And then you see the MW3 Zombies teaser and BOOM Weaver is dead! Way more emotion just by making him a character in the gameplay with quotes and dialogue, etc. I loved the moment in Die Maschine when you ressurrect Orlov. Seeing him come to the realization of what he has become, run from it. Then you find his picture and you see his speech to his family, and you hear him come to terms and sacrifice himself to save the world, knowing he has one last chance... It's a great character moment. I really think we need to return to a set crew. It's been a surface level criticism since Cold War, but the effects of not having Characters, well, it makes the story, immersion, and overall emotional investment far worse than anything we've seen before. No matter how good the quotes are. If we can't sympathise with any characters, we can't get invested ourselves. Also, I think Cold War/modern Zombies could do better with presentation with cutscenes, in-game events, map specific stuff, etc. but I've always attributed that to the limited Dev time we've seen them get. The "themes" of COld War was really about sacrifice. Kykov sacrificed himself to shut down the machine, he became the Forsaken. Orlov sacrificed himself to shut it down again, he lost his family. Maxis sacrificed herself to contain the Forsaken, who knows what she will become. Maxis, Peck, Ravenov all sacrificed their professional work "for the greater good". Peck is an excellent example of dealing with the consequences of your sacrifices. The Dark Aether story is full of potential. The Dark Aether is one of the most interesting aspects in zombies since "the cycle". The actual events are pretty good too. Forsaken, Maxis, the Director, the pieces are all on the table. It's just how Treyarch goes forward with using them that effects how people will react to it. This is a lot longer of a comment than I originally planned for, sorry. Thanks for reading! :D
Part of the reason people aren't clicking as much with the Dark Aether story is because Activision keeps dragging Treyarch into different projects. With the Aether storyline, we got the next chapter with each Treyarch game in *rougly* the order Treyarch wanted to tell it. With the Dark Aether story, after Cold War, they planned to continue it with chapter 2 in their next game. However, Activision tasked them with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in Vanguard, so they had to punt and make a prequel that wasn't planned originally. Once again, Activision tasked Treyarch with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in MWIII, and with it being so far in the future compared to where they originally started, Treyarch once again had to punt and make a far distant loose continuation which, again, wasn't originally planned. So now, things feel more disconnected and it gives some the feeling that the story doesn't know what it wants to do.
Milo I think you were absolutely spot on, that feel for zombies that we had back in the old story just doesn’t exist anymore. One point you made is the intrigue mystery of things within the old story, like the MPD, vril device, or certain places like where maps are etc. it’s the MYSTERY about these things that would get us interested in the lore with aspects of who, when, what , where and why. It just seems now it’s already all explained to us and there’s no mystery. That’s my take from it all anyway.
So great to see your vids on my feed again! I dunno, I feel like Cold War did some really cool stuff story-wise and definitely a step on the right direction. Vanguard was 2 steps back, but they can't all be winners I guess. I think it's gonna take some very impressive writing skills to pull me back into the Zombies frenzy I used to feel back in 2015. The sheer amount of world building, information and character development in Cold War is very unappreciated I think, and they way it was presented through detailed collectibles and notes through the seasons was masterfully done. I really hope they do something similar, made the world feel very lived in and it made closing previous plot holes very organic and easy to understand. I'm staying positive, hopefully they continue Maxis' story and come back to some of the new characters (which we are already seeing with Ravenov if the trailer is anything to go by). I could gush about this for hours, your cooking was tasty and made me think.
100% agree. This new game isn’t Cod Zombies. It’s cod campaign with zombies thrown in. The focus isn’t crazy experiments, mythical creatures, magic, dark fantasy mixed with sci fi. They’re trying to fit it all into the realistic modern warfare, and even Cold War universes when it never needed to be merged They’re limiting their own creativity by putting the creative mode into the realistic universe It makes no sense. And just doesn’t work. Cold war has good aspects, but even that game just feels way too “multiplayer-y” Black ops 2, 3 and 4 felt like their own true universe where there’s no limits. It was its OWN thing. Now it’s just being brought down by something else And when the story is just about military factions, Nukes, bunkers, helicopter escorts, human vs human, it just becomes another realistic campaign story. Not a zombies story. It’s a campaign story with zombies thrown in. It’s not a zombies story.
Bro cooked a mean steamed ham here, i love this vid style of just going off about gaming story philosophy and how to improve zombies with it, 10/10 vid
100% on board with this "recipe." I would love to love the new story, too. A different way of saying what you've said, is that the zombies storyline has become straightforward. It's just plot. The mystery is just plot, just "What's going to happen next?" It's not deeper thematic, philosophical meaning, which there was so much of in past zombies. And past zombies, for all its insane sci-fi fantastical craziness, was so human, so raw, so real. It really spoke to the deeper parts of humanity and being human and life and death and sanity and what it all means. Now it's just... military organizations fighting over biological and dimensional weapons. And that's not enough. I like Cold War zombies for the gameplay, I like the maps for the most part, I like playing it. But the story, the characters, the meaning, the questions... they're not compelling. They don't hook me. They don't keep me up at night. And they used to. That's what we've lost.
Good video, reason why I subscribed (I liked theories and deeper meaning of the game I'm invested in) What I will say that with every variation of Zombies, I could find if I like the mode or not within 20 minutes of playing the new game, I guess we will have to wait and see if this zombies will be a classic or not from the fist 20 minutes people get with the game
I believe we truly enjoy stories in which we can relate. Us being stuck in whatever situations we are stuck in, it's always nice to see our imagination become personified through stories told through media. It's an outlet for us to be able to put ourselves in the character's shoes and let our imaginations run rampant as we follow the character's progression.
They should release like 6 maps through the year which are standalone, that’s where the proper storytelling was done. It was so nice to see how every map fitted together which hasn’t been done recently. Great video Waffles 😎
I think we’re gonna see what happened around that table that weavers sitting at next year in treyarchs title…I’ll always remember one thing Jason Blundell said…a story doesn’t have to be told in order.
Wow, I had to listen to this twice and was impressed even more the second time around. I can whole heartedly relate with the thoughts of zombies. LET HIM COOK!
I think that there needs to be 1. A reason to care about the story. 2. A perpetual feeling of unpredictability and mystique that leaves space for theorizing and excitement about the future. 3. World building.
Appreciate all that you do. you bring up a lot of questions. I played the new call of duty a lot and pretty much said I'm done. BUT I love zombies.. even the bad ones great opportunity to kill some evil with the boys. They almost need to just make a separate game, people would pay at least $30 for just a good zombies map.
I think a big part of this is that when zombies started in WaW, there was no story. It was them having fun and WE started the story for them and then they took off with it and brought it in a lot of cool and crazy directions. Now when we see zombies we expect a story but they are telling it to us, not showing it to us because they already know what they want, while in the eather storyline they had an idea of what to do, they didn't know for sure and played with things and we ate it up because we didn't know what would come next I think.
It began long ago, on the battlefields of the great war. Two German scientists.... That intro and those maps still give that feeling that made me fall in love with zombies. That aesthetic of a dark and apocalyptical environment where everything is destroyed, tattered, on fire etc. The mystery of 115, crazy Germans trying harness the power, creating wonder weapons and gigantic robots. I miss those days :(
This is why I like MrRoflwaffles. Not only is he good at zombies and makes good tutorials but he gets into the depths and mental processes of things and stories and actually cares about the zombies storyline and these discussions make you think and I like to do that
I feel like BO4 had a lot of maps that would have been really good if they were in a different game. Maps like Dead of the Night and Tag Der Toten would have felt so much better in BO3. I think that Cold War zombies had the exact opposite problem. The game was really good but the maps weren't particularly unique or interesting. If Cold War had better maps then I think it could have easily been as good as the older games.
a cod zombies game that just goes back in time, before the end of the aether and tag der toten to unexplored areas of the old storyline like the things you mentioned would be a great direction i think for treyarch. maybe we could play as ultimis or primis again but it would make sense this time because it’s before they died. I just really love the old story and the characters i’d do anything to see it return in some way other then treyarch throwing us a bone by throwing in the old perks, monkey bomb , ray gun, mystery box and pack a punch
I'm glad that cold war introduced the intel system, as it and the game as a whole tried to cater towards the more casual fanbase, like giving directions for the EE's. It gave a chance to give info to those who seemed it and had an interest in the story and not having to Google things But I think they really struck gold with og zombies and people are burned out with them trying so hard to profit solely off of nostalgia I'm looking forward to cod 2024 and hope it will learn from cold wars mistakes and bridge the gap between CW and MWIII
I feel without a main crew of characters to play as, no story they come up will have legs. Players that play the mode remember the characters they play as. BO3 leaned into the playable characters so much that each of the DLC maps (DE through GK) was centered around one of the main characters because that is what the people love and remember. You as the player in the old story are helping the playable character in game complete their quest in game unlike in Cold War where you as the player are just a random op completing a quest for people far away from all the action (you feel replaceable)
Great video and yes you definitely did cook lmao, I've always wanted zombies in a Modern Warfare game but not for the overall theme or aesthetic, rather for new or tweaked gameplay mechanics that fit better for MW. I do think Cold War warranted being somewhat barebones in storytelling but they shouldn't keep going with that especially with how insane the original story became, and how much players loved it for that.
I miss when Zombies was about four men trying to overcome impossible odds and their own flaws, realizing along the way that they needed each other more than they'd admit. That more human element is largely missing from the story now, and it's starting to feel more like the campaign with people talking in your ear 24/7 telling you what to do, rather than the characters carving their own path amidst the chaos. I really hope COD 2024 explores Eddie and Sam's relationship more and their reconciling with their past, because that would provide that emotional impact the story is missing and make it 10000x better.
Love you and your content - been watching for years. I say that so you know I'm not hating when I say you should put gameplay on screen with videos like this one. Keep up the great work 👍
Brilliant rationalization! The problem might be that, in the golden days of zombies, the story had the chance to be placed on the cosmic stage. There was a sort of big picture to make sense of, back when the story got to play with concepts that are bigger than humanity. There was depth there, something to actually think about. The mystery of Easter Eggs had always been the King of zombies, not the narrative. Exploring hidden meanings or things we came up with, to make sense of it all, is what made it fun. When the Easter Eggs actually had substance, they would make you ponder some of the greatest mysteries of our very existence... The real life Easter Eggs.
I’m in your boat. The more intertwined the zombies story is to the campaign universes, the more generic and less outlandish the zombie story can be. It does feel like something tacked on to fill out the content and sell the package as a game instead of dlc, but the story aspect will continue to suffer, so long as it is tied to the campaign world. We become bystanders watching some one else’s story, instead of becoming the protagonists and living the story through someone’s eyes.
Treyarc just needs to hire Milo and the rest of the major zombies youtubers that have been doing this since day 1 to lead the creative story team for zombies
Something I want to know is what happened to the transit crew once everything was banished to the dark aether. They didn't die because all we see is them in darkness. From what I know time works differently in the Dark aether. There are a lot of theories about them but I wonder if they ever escaped through a rift or died within the dark aether.
I've been eating at that exact feeling all this time without knowing the recipe - the waffle-iron is once again cooking and I could never be full of it ❤
I think the main thing is that there is no main cast. It feels like we aren't really connected to the story other than being a tool for the other characters that don't really interact with us either
Honestly, it feels like stories and games don’t make interesting/complex yet incentivized antagonist/villains plot goals anymore. The Covenant is a damn good example. We knew who they were and how their overall goal was bad and how we the player had to stop them while also realizing that there was more to the bad guy than we thought. And still, the Covenant stayed true to its roots of its goal making us want to stop them even more.
I’m only in the middle of the video. But talking about purpose, this is why I fell in love with Primis Richthofen. He already knew his fate in a way, but after so long he just wanted to journey with his friends and he was relentless to fail to Monty. He wanted to seek out that his purpose and his work wasn’t for nothing in saving his friends. I forgot where I learned it but I heard that after so long there wasn’t a plan because the cycle never stopped. And Richthofen truly was just having fun killing zombies with his friends and that’s when he got betrayed at Mob of the Dead, to end that cycle for him.
My boy went from telling me how to build the fire staff to operating as a Greek philosopher. Love it
There was always this mystique type of feeling the first games had when it came to atmosphere, it seemed the only people that ever knew about the zombies and 115 were a handful of people and most of those people were already dead or gone to begin with. It felt like it was those 4 people in every map against everything else that Group 935 left behind. Extremely closed off feeling.
Nailed it. Each map had urban legends implemented discreetly. Also we didnt get super detailed radios, and cyphers. The radios we got were cryptic. So much to draw from with very little. Now it feels like a spec ops mission collabed w zombies
Facts!! There was so much more mystery and nuance early on but they gave enough to keep everyone hooked but didn’t spoon feed everything
I loved all the theory crafting, now I feel a lot of that original nuance and mystique has gone
YES!!!
i loved that fucking feeling and u just described it perfectly. maps like kino and verruckt giving that feeling PERFECTLY
“The story feels a little bit vanilla now” is an understatement.
Man, I remember thinking "I wonder what kind of crazy shit they're going to do next" during the BO1 - BO4 days. Now all that stuff is gone because some people complained about it.
@@lucas169Now even the map settings arent even interesting. Each one is just another generic “facility”
@@lucas169no it's all gone because u can't just milk zombies forever lol
Came for the zombies, stayed for the philosophy
This is the best thing I’ve listened too in awhile. Milo please never stop. We.. yes we.. need your no nonsense break downs. I love this shit.. Mr. Master chef “ I’m cooking something” Milo !!
appreciate that bud
@@MrRoflWaffles yo Milo it says under my comment you got a surprise for me
It say that under my comment as well.
@@SuperSaqer probably a bot
It makes me so happy to see you passionately talk about Zombies again, reminds me of the old days :')
LET HIM COOK
Stay back, hold your fire, LET HIM COOK.
@@matheusmelisguerrapeixe2330hol' up, let him cook
LET 👏 HIM 👏 COOK!!!!!!
So Requiem are dead in the containment zone... are they coming back as zombies? Manglers maybe?
Let him cook Let him cook man
I was so engrossed in what you were saying, that when you said “20 minutes” near the end I was shocked. Well done. Great recipe
thank you!!! the chef sends his regards!! 🤝
@@MrRoflWaffles you have a scum bag in your comments section trying to scam honest people bro just letting you know!
Homie said "Let me cook", and produced a banquet. I've loved these last 15 years Milo, keep up the fantastic work.
Damn it’s been 10 years of COD zombies. Enjoyed every tips & tricks learned to complete Easter eggs from this channel.
Depends if you started counting 10 years ago, but I’ve been playing since 2008
15 Brother
15 years lol if your an og 😂
Homie didn’t play World at War
@@NoVACorpsGaming nor BO1 if they are saying 10
Milo isn't just cooking, he's making a thanksgiving dinner.
I just realized, the great journey from halo is just like the great war from codzombies. It was built up as this big idea but just turned out to be a suicide mission in both cases.
Its like the radio in Der Reise, when you hear Maxis trying to control the zombies, makes you think who is the true evil the Zombies or the Nazis and subjects like that really tickle my pickle of storys that make you think about a subject like Samanthas story in Black Ops and World at War, a little girl who has been basically tortured and ended up controlling the undead is just prime badshit which I love
This man just made a whole All-you- can-eat buffet
"Let it sink in" hasn't been in zombies in a LONNNNGGGG TIME. We definitely could use it to make a more compelling story
Yeah, I’ve always felt that stories that make the viewer/reader think are extremely enriching, because in a way it pushes us toward introspection and self-awareness. From experience, I’ve loved stories that through the character(s) and story, they reflect the craziness of human nature, where we feel like we can relate. For me, wanting there to be more of a deeper meaning, and realizing there isn’t, is kind of discouraging, which is honestly how I felt about Zombies recently. Now, it really just feels like a game and not a story. 😢
I know I'm late, but your fresh view on a story I've grown distant with really helped put things into perspective for me. The rigid militarification (is that a word?) of zombies put me off getting lost in the story like before. Having the redemption arc of Richtofen and seeing the humanity and remorse of a terrible person was such a compelling narrative!
When I was 16 years old coming home from school seeing the Easter eggs getting finished in bo3 zombies and seeing the cutscene was such a beautiful moment in my life. I haven’t had any story capture me like cod zombies has and I just think everything that comes out now is such a far cry from what it once was and I have less hope every year that we will ever have that again
Bro you are spitting FACTS about the fear for the future. You absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why I don’t care for zombies story anymore. There are no REAL stakes. It’s all about fake PMC’s and launch codes and military. That’s not fun. Stopping Ancient evil and interrupting dark rituals and growing with the characters along the way are what made the original zombies story sooo good.
It makes me incredibly happy to hear you talking so passionately. I think you’ve basically said everything I could have. It feels like they’re scared of taking risks to be interesting and it took the soul out of what made the story so enthralling.
I want to see what Eddie and Peck been cooking all these years. Seeing Weaver and the rest of the requiem heads dead is likely he got revenge against him. As Peck, we’ll see.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
19:17 ur so right cuz I remember how good the Der Riese radios hit and they were just teleporting shit around
Exactly what you talked about is why I've gotten into stories like the og zombies and more recently Destiny. The lore of the Hive is so similar to what you talked about on finding purpose in the universe and the unending hunger some have. Really hope Treyarch listens to this because I would love to be invested in zombies again. It's been a huge part of my life and is why I want to get into narrative design as a career. Love the video!
Imma be honest... watching this video has made me realize that listening to you speak is very relaxing. It is something that many youtubers in the zombies community have shared for me is that, their videos have a very cozy feeling. Whether it's you or Lex; TheRelaxingEnd or JC, or anyone else. Your videos give me refuge from the rest of life and I am eternally grateful that you have been in my life for these past 8 or so years. Thank you Milo, and keep going, for your sake and ours.
What a video idea, zombies is one of the wildest examples of community building THROUGH content and I hope they continue to make it worth watching
Treyarch almost seems lost when they are making zombies today compared to bo3 and before bo4 shattered everything they thought they knew about zombies
I will take bo4 zombies any day. Better than vanguard or nothing.
@@VironixPsn I agree vanguard is the laziest and most unrewarding thing I’ve ever played there’s no cool easteregg to grind out there’s no cool wonderweapons and the perk system is just boring
To be fair, like Milo said himself it’s the start of a new story where as BO3 and BO4 were ending stories. Getting the fundamentals down and core characters are going to take longer than ending a story.
Coincidentally the same time they let Jason Blundell go 🤔
@@Ermac43technically BO4 was ending stories plus beginning stories. In the same way they had to lay ground work in Cold War, they had to build something from the ground up with the Chaos story in BO4, and IMO it was just starting to get intriguing when they cut it off abruptly, concluding the Chaos story after just 4 maps. I don't think the community gave the Chaos story a fair shake in that regard. I mean 2 of those 4 maps were some of the best maps we've had in Zombies period with IX and Ancient Evil
I totally agree on the military guff. The fact that the Primis/Ultimis crew had military backgrounds always felt secondary to the enjoyment of their characters, especially as the story became greater in scope and started to interweave the interdimensional stuff into it. There was always a bigger picture, and BO3's greatest success was its capacity to keep its eye on that bigger picture while also somehow delivering upon some unusually personal storytelling that was localised to each individual crew member themselves. For more on that, look no further than the story behind Zetsubou no Shima.
You brain starts to switch off a bit when that gets replaced with super cool army squad X and their super cool army guys who get dropped in by chopper and have a super cool army man on the intercom throwing super cool army words at you.
So glad to see You back to enjoying the video making and doing what you love ❤
Milo looks CRAZY! you look like you havent slept in weeks my dude. Bro be getting nightmares over MW3 Zombies.
😓
I'm always taken aback (In the best possible way) when Milo randomly brings up Halo.
Brings a huge smile to my face hearing someone I've been watching for a decade now (still can't believe it's been that long) talk about something so close to my heart.
Loved the vid Milo, keep up the great work.♥
I’m here for my cooked waffles 🧇
And I agree I think what made the old school zombies so amazing was the mystery and joining our heroes through the journey like when Sam got Fluffy teleported and being like OH that’s where Hell hounds come from. Or finding Maxis on the Moon and some how they were able to connect literally everything like you said. character connection is also so important where we truly care about everyone. Also in a way they made the story feel like it could continue forever even when it looked like the story was completed there was still more to come.
I feel that you are also tapping into the general sense I think most of us have that gaming shifting from niche to mainstream has driven the development of games that are much more accessible to everyone, and part of what's being traded away is the catering to the emotional connections that we all build through much more immersive storytelling. The zombies community is huge and an amazing group of people, but we do represent a small portion of the overall Call of Duty community for which the entire game is being developed for.
In this specific case, there is more of a motivation for the creation of a zombies mode that multi-player or Warzone players might feel interested in trying, and not so much to cater to those of us who really want to dive into the niche world of zombies that we have grown so attached to.
always love hoping on youtube just to see that my fav zombies youtuber made an upload.
Keep up the good work Milo!
Alternate title: Milo has an existential crisis for 23 minutes
Love you Milo your enthusiasm has helped the stoke stay alive in these stories
I love the way you were able to convey exactly how a lot of us feel with zombies. I remember how vague and mystic the zombie universe was back in BO1. It built up more than I believe we all ever thought. I am happy to see Eddie and Sam in the dark Aether story because it feels like the perfect handoff especially after Tag. Now it seems thrown off like you said, very not enticing ya know?
Seeing zombies coming back to MW3 is definitely gonna make me get the game bc I gotta SCRATCH that itch.
Hats off to you Chefolio Milo 😂
MrRoflWaffles I only came on board with zombies with Cold War but I would never have appreciated CoD Zombies as much if it weren't for you so I have to say thanks so much for your great work on all this, I really appreciate you please keep up your great work
I didn’t expect to watch a video this deep today. You sir have fulfilled your purpose for sure
You're cooking. I think the biggest thing that made zombies was the mythism and the unknown, feeling small in a bigger world out there. and it's been completely stripped.
To oversimplify what I think you're saying... The Aether storyline, while being nonsensical and confusing and, at times, conveluded... Had character. Not just characters, but character. This person is doing this because they are like this.
Cold War, Vanguard, and now MW3 Zombies, have operators. Which means that the people completing the easter eggs, playing the map, aren't relevant to the story in an intimate way.
Even if Takeo or Dempsey didn't have much "to do" in something like Gorod Krovi, you knew how they felt about things going on by the quotes and dialogue between them. You could imagine how they would react to things and events in the future. They were people.
Imagine Cold War, but you actually played as Weaver. HE investigates Die Maschine, HE shuts it down, HE saves Maxis from the Dark Aether, HE stands by and watches her sacrifice herself. You get to see his emotions and his reactions to everything. You would know what he's going through and sympathise with him. And then you see the MW3 Zombies teaser and BOOM Weaver is dead! Way more emotion just by making him a character in the gameplay with quotes and dialogue, etc.
I loved the moment in Die Maschine when you ressurrect Orlov. Seeing him come to the realization of what he has become, run from it. Then you find his picture and you see his speech to his family, and you hear him come to terms and sacrifice himself to save the world, knowing he has one last chance... It's a great character moment.
I really think we need to return to a set crew. It's been a surface level criticism since Cold War, but the effects of not having Characters, well, it makes the story, immersion, and overall emotional investment far worse than anything we've seen before. No matter how good the quotes are. If we can't sympathise with any characters, we can't get invested ourselves.
Also, I think Cold War/modern Zombies could do better with presentation with cutscenes, in-game events, map specific stuff, etc. but I've always attributed that to the limited Dev time we've seen them get. The "themes" of COld War was really about sacrifice. Kykov sacrificed himself to shut down the machine, he became the Forsaken. Orlov sacrificed himself to shut it down again, he lost his family. Maxis sacrificed herself to contain the Forsaken, who knows what she will become. Maxis, Peck, Ravenov all sacrificed their professional work "for the greater good". Peck is an excellent example of dealing with the consequences of your sacrifices.
The Dark Aether story is full of potential. The Dark Aether is one of the most interesting aspects in zombies since "the cycle". The actual events are pretty good too. Forsaken, Maxis, the Director, the pieces are all on the table. It's just how Treyarch goes forward with using them that effects how people will react to it.
This is a lot longer of a comment than I originally planned for, sorry. Thanks for reading! :D
Part of the reason people aren't clicking as much with the Dark Aether story is because Activision keeps dragging Treyarch into different projects. With the Aether storyline, we got the next chapter with each Treyarch game in *rougly* the order Treyarch wanted to tell it.
With the Dark Aether story, after Cold War, they planned to continue it with chapter 2 in their next game. However, Activision tasked them with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in Vanguard, so they had to punt and make a prequel that wasn't planned originally. Once again, Activision tasked Treyarch with making a time-period accurate zombies entry in MWIII, and with it being so far in the future compared to where they originally started, Treyarch once again had to punt and make a far distant loose continuation which, again, wasn't originally planned. So now, things feel more disconnected and it gives some the feeling that the story doesn't know what it wants to do.
Great point
Milo I think you were absolutely spot on, that feel for zombies that we had back in the old story just doesn’t exist anymore. One point you made is the intrigue mystery of things within the old story, like the MPD, vril device, or certain places like where maps are etc. it’s the MYSTERY about these things that would get us interested in the lore with aspects of who, when, what , where and why.
It just seems now it’s already all explained to us and there’s no mystery. That’s my take from it all anyway.
So great to see your vids on my feed again! I dunno, I feel like Cold War did some really cool stuff story-wise and definitely a step on the right direction. Vanguard was 2 steps back, but they can't all be winners I guess. I think it's gonna take some very impressive writing skills to pull me back into the Zombies frenzy I used to feel back in 2015. The sheer amount of world building, information and character development in Cold War is very unappreciated I think, and they way it was presented through detailed collectibles and notes through the seasons was masterfully done. I really hope they do something similar, made the world feel very lived in and it made closing previous plot holes very organic and easy to understand. I'm staying positive, hopefully they continue Maxis' story and come back to some of the new characters (which we are already seeing with Ravenov if the trailer is anything to go by). I could gush about this for hours, your cooking was tasty and made me think.
100% agree. This new game isn’t Cod Zombies.
It’s cod campaign with zombies thrown in.
The focus isn’t crazy experiments, mythical creatures, magic, dark fantasy mixed with sci fi. They’re trying to fit it all into the realistic modern warfare, and even Cold War universes when it never needed to be merged
They’re limiting their own creativity by putting the creative mode into the realistic universe
It makes no sense. And just doesn’t work. Cold war has good aspects, but even that game just feels way too “multiplayer-y”
Black ops 2, 3 and 4 felt like their own true universe where there’s no limits. It was its OWN thing. Now it’s just being brought down by something else
And when the story is just about military factions, Nukes, bunkers, helicopter escorts, human vs human, it just becomes another realistic campaign story. Not a zombies story.
It’s a campaign story with zombies thrown in. It’s not a zombies story.
Bro cooked a mean steamed ham here, i love this vid style of just going off about gaming story philosophy and how to improve zombies with it, 10/10 vid
I needed this, and i need friends like this man.
I love these sorts of vids. I relate to you a lot with all the lore stuff. I'm a sucker for it
100% on board with this "recipe." I would love to love the new story, too. A different way of saying what you've said, is that the zombies storyline has become straightforward. It's just plot. The mystery is just plot, just "What's going to happen next?" It's not deeper thematic, philosophical meaning, which there was so much of in past zombies. And past zombies, for all its insane sci-fi fantastical craziness, was so human, so raw, so real. It really spoke to the deeper parts of humanity and being human and life and death and sanity and what it all means. Now it's just... military organizations fighting over biological and dimensional weapons. And that's not enough. I like Cold War zombies for the gameplay, I like the maps for the most part, I like playing it. But the story, the characters, the meaning, the questions... they're not compelling. They don't hook me. They don't keep me up at night. And they used to. That's what we've lost.
You've always been such a great story teller 😊
Good video, reason why I subscribed (I liked theories and deeper meaning of the game I'm invested in) What I will say that with every variation of Zombies, I could find if I like the mode or not within 20 minutes of playing the new game, I guess we will have to wait and see if this zombies will be a classic or not from the fist 20 minutes people get with the game
I believe we truly enjoy stories in which we can relate. Us being stuck in whatever situations we are stuck in, it's always nice to see our imagination become personified through stories told through media. It's an outlet for us to be able to put ourselves in the character's shoes and let our imaginations run rampant as we follow the character's progression.
3:50 Holy Shit, Milo just described my life in a nutshell. Except the satisfaction in the end is living life with the journey I have done🤯...
They should release like 6 maps through the year which are standalone, that’s where the proper storytelling was done. It was so nice to see how every map fitted together which hasn’t been done recently.
Great video Waffles 😎
Can’t lie, I zoned out every 10 seconds, snapped back into it 60 seconds after that then that cycle repeated right up until the video ended
I think we’re gonna see what happened around that table that weavers sitting at next year in treyarchs title…I’ll always remember one thing Jason Blundell said…a story doesn’t have to be told in order.
Wow, I had to listen to this twice and was impressed even more the second time around. I can whole heartedly relate with the thoughts of zombies. LET HIM COOK!
I honestly think this is a revolution within the zombies series and also setting a bar for the new releases as well.
I think that there needs to be
1. A reason to care about the story.
2. A perpetual feeling of unpredictability and mystique that leaves space for theorizing and excitement about the future.
3. World building.
Appreciate all that you do. you bring up a lot of questions. I played the new call of duty a lot and pretty much said I'm done. BUT I love zombies.. even the bad ones great opportunity to kill some evil with the boys. They almost need to just make a separate game, people would pay at least $30 for just a good zombies map.
Don't let this guy cook ever again
I think a big part of this is that when zombies started in WaW, there was no story. It was them having fun and WE started the story for them and then they took off with it and brought it in a lot of cool and crazy directions. Now when we see zombies we expect a story but they are telling it to us, not showing it to us because they already know what they want, while in the eather storyline they had an idea of what to do, they didn't know for sure and played with things and we ate it up because we didn't know what would come next I think.
Always a solid upload.
Appreciate you Milo. 😄
It began long ago, on the battlefields of the great war. Two German scientists....
That intro and those maps still give that feeling that made me fall in love with zombies. That aesthetic of a dark and apocalyptical environment where everything is destroyed, tattered, on fire etc. The mystery of 115, crazy Germans trying harness the power, creating wonder weapons and gigantic robots. I miss those days :(
You are very skilled at explaining abstract ideas.
12:39 that moment when Milo describes how religious texts grab people’s attention
We need a cutscene showing us what Primis/Ultimis is doing in this universe (like the end TDT cutscene where they all say what they're going to do)
This is why I like MrRoflwaffles. Not only is he good at zombies and makes good tutorials but he gets into the depths and mental processes of things and stories and actually cares about the zombies storyline and these discussions make you think and I like to do that
13:29 "You don't need to be much from nothing" -Fischerspooner: Emerge
You know the world is healing when Milo is back to making zombie vids ❤
Great video! 😊 hope you’re feeling better with the throat pain and everything 🤗
Really wish we could just continue the chaos story. It had so much potential to be so good.
I feel like BO4 had a lot of maps that would have been really good if they were in a different game. Maps like Dead of the Night and Tag Der Toten would have felt so much better in BO3. I think that Cold War zombies had the exact opposite problem. The game was really good but the maps weren't particularly unique or interesting. If Cold War had better maps then I think it could have easily been as good as the older games.
Bro just did 23 minutes of self discovery and I did in fact watch allat
a cod zombies game that just goes back in time, before the end of the aether and tag der toten to unexplored areas of the old storyline like the things you mentioned would be a great direction i think for treyarch. maybe we could
play as ultimis or primis again but it would make sense this time because it’s before they died. I just really love the old story and the characters i’d do anything to see it return in some way other then treyarch throwing us a bone by throwing in the old perks, monkey bomb , ray gun, mystery box and pack a punch
Such a great video and discussion. Thank you!!
Let’s all just take a second to be thankful that this young man has never wanted to start a cult…
I'm glad that cold war introduced the intel system, as it and the game as a whole tried to cater towards the more casual fanbase, like giving directions for the EE's. It gave a chance to give info to those who seemed it and had an interest in the story and not having to Google things
But I think they really struck gold with og zombies and people are burned out with them trying so hard to profit solely off of nostalgia
I'm looking forward to cod 2024 and hope it will learn from cold wars mistakes and bridge the gap between CW and MWIII
Milo you are voicing my thoughts about up coming zombies.
Bro didn’t cook about zombies bro cooked about life
I feel without a main crew of characters to play as, no story they come up will have legs. Players that play the mode remember the characters they play as. BO3 leaned into the playable characters so much that each of the DLC maps (DE through GK) was centered around one of the main characters because that is what the people love and remember. You as the player in the old story are helping the playable character in game complete their quest in game unlike in Cold War where you as the player are just a random op completing a quest for people far away from all the action (you feel replaceable)
This is like a podcast, but interesting and introspective
Great video and yes you definitely did cook lmao, I've always wanted zombies in a Modern Warfare game but not for the overall theme or aesthetic, rather for new or tweaked gameplay mechanics that fit better for MW. I do think Cold War warranted being somewhat barebones in storytelling but they shouldn't keep going with that especially with how insane the original story became, and how much players loved it for that.
I miss when Zombies was about four men trying to overcome impossible odds and their own flaws, realizing along the way that they needed each other more than they'd admit. That more human element is largely missing from the story now, and it's starting to feel more like the campaign with people talking in your ear 24/7 telling you what to do, rather than the characters carving their own path amidst the chaos. I really hope COD 2024 explores Eddie and Sam's relationship more and their reconciling with their past, because that would provide that emotional impact the story is missing and make it 10000x better.
vanguard really did a number on this man, respectfully
Love you and your content - been watching for years. I say that so you know I'm not hating when I say you should put gameplay on screen with videos like this one. Keep up the great work 👍
Brilliant rationalization! The problem might be that, in the golden days of zombies, the story had the chance to be placed on the cosmic stage. There was a sort of big picture to make sense of, back when the story got to play with concepts that are bigger than humanity. There was depth there, something to actually think about. The mystery of Easter Eggs had always been the King of zombies, not the narrative. Exploring hidden meanings or things we came up with, to make sense of it all, is what made it fun. When the Easter Eggs actually had substance, they would make you ponder some of the greatest mysteries of our very existence... The real life Easter Eggs.
I’m in your boat. The more intertwined the zombies story is to the campaign universes, the more generic and less outlandish the zombie story can be. It does feel like something tacked on to fill out the content and sell the package as a game instead of dlc, but the story aspect will continue to suffer, so long as it is tied to the campaign world. We become bystanders watching some one else’s story, instead of becoming the protagonists and living the story through someone’s eyes.
Unfortunately I don't think zombies will ever be give us those same feelings we had before. Soo many failed attempts
Treyarc just needs to hire Milo and the rest of the major zombies youtubers that have been doing this since day 1 to lead the creative story team for zombies
Damn bro cooked up a whole philosophy lecture.. and im all here for it!
I love these more philosophical videos. He should definitely do more like this
Something I want to know is what happened to the transit crew once everything was banished to the dark aether. They didn't die because all we see is them in darkness. From what I know time works differently in the Dark aether. There are a lot of theories about them but I wonder if they ever escaped through a rift or died within the dark aether.
I've been eating at that exact feeling all this time without knowing the recipe - the waffle-iron is once again cooking and I could never be full of it ❤
Nah but fr you looking fresh with that black t - chain combo
I think the main thing is that there is no main cast. It feels like we aren't really connected to the story other than being a tool for the other characters that don't really interact with us either
It's all symptomatic of the damn operators.
Milo cooked a whole 5-course meal in this video
in my opinion, as long as craig houston is still at treyarch the story is always gonna be engaging and fulfilling
Honestly, it feels like stories and games don’t make interesting/complex yet incentivized antagonist/villains plot goals anymore.
The Covenant is a damn good example. We knew who they were and how their overall goal was bad and how we the player had to stop them while also realizing that there was more to the bad guy than we thought. And still, the Covenant stayed true to its roots of its goal making us want to stop them even more.
I’m only in the middle of the video. But talking about purpose, this is why I fell in love with Primis Richthofen. He already knew his fate in a way, but after so long he just wanted to journey with his friends and he was relentless to fail to Monty. He wanted to seek out that his purpose and his work wasn’t for nothing in saving his friends. I forgot where I learned it but I heard that after so long there wasn’t a plan because the cycle never stopped. And Richthofen truly was just having fun killing zombies with his friends and that’s when he got betrayed at Mob of the Dead, to end that cycle for him.