How to test a starter motor (no crank from a bad block ground) - Nissan
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This car had a new battery and starter installed and it still didn't crank.
I will walk you through some simple tests that must be done on every no crank problem.
Engine Performance Diagnostics chapter 1 pages 23-26
Symptoms
- intermittent no crank (starter doesn't engage)
- erratic operation of the instrument cluster lights and gauges
- new battery and starter was installed without a fix
Fix
- repair main block ground on the front of the engine
Tests shown
- how to test the load side and control side of a starter
- how to test the starter ground circuit
Tools used
- incandescent test light
- digital multimeter
Playlist
- No crank troubleshooting (starting system)
• Starting, Charging and...
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Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
This is more common than most people think. I've been called to random parking lots for a no crank no start on a vehicle and have seen this numerous times. People are not too happy when they just purchased groceries and can't leave. Fortunately, it's an easy repair.
Great video Paul
so what the issue
Coolasice2 raised a good question about an electrical schematic to illustrate the reason for the test light bulb lighting. I cannot display it, but I will suggest one to think of the starting CIRCUIT, i.e. current traveling from battery positive post to the starter, then through the block, and then back to the battery negative post via the block ground cable. As a consequence of the block ground cable being separated from the negative post, thus interrupting current flow, there is positive voltage on the block.
Voltage drop tests are your friends. Whenever I encounter a no-start condition accompanied by a lack of "action" (headlights, noise), the first procedure I utilize is a test light check as Paul has demonstrated.
Thanks for that explanation! It wasn't making any sense until i read your comment.
I will bet a lot of viewers are wondering how the test light was lighting up from a ground to ground and how did the engine block get energized positive. Great vid.
I didn't understand the 8.3 volts in run
@@adambailey7739 voltage drop
@@enzoorciuoli328 can you explain that sir my brain froze seeing the test light lighting up from ground to ground.
Great 👍🏼 training ! Emphasized electrical basics / starter system operation / dynamic loaded circuit testing for voltage drop to be revealed and finally interpreting what the DVOM is trying to tell you. Awesome detective work and amazing job juggling the 5 or 6 key concepts in your mind all at once . Thanks mate !
@Bushougoma That is absolutely correct!
This video is also a great lesson on why you should use battery ground for your point of reference for your voltmeter instead of body/block ground whenever possible. Especially for a no crank problem.
If my main fusible link on the positive battery terminal keeps blowing (we've replaced alternator 3 times, the clamps on the terminal 2 times, the 120 amp fuse terminal 4 times), can i use this test to find the short to ground or whatever? But do I have to replace that fusible link again before being able to test it? So that you can see the load or whatever?
Oh and my car is a 2006 nissan maxima
@@amaebarnes which fusible link? The one with the 120a fuse? Also what engine size?
@@ScannerDanner yes the one with the 120 amp fuse and it's a 3.5L V6 :)
@@amaebarnes okay, this fuse feeds the alternator directly. Have you made sure that the wire that goes from the fusible link box (battery) to the alternator is not shorted to ground? You MUST follow it and check it very closely for points of contact to metal brackets, the cylinder head, engine block etc.
If you've replaced the alternator 3 times, this rules out the alternator being shorted in my opinion unless you are buying sh-t parts off Amazon.
This fuse also feeds power to the following fusible links:
Link E: 100a
Link D: 80a
Link B: 80a
Link C: 60a
Have any of the above circuits been modified with a higher amp fuse or link? If not, then our problem cannot be in any of those circuits as it would blow the lower amp fuse first.
@@ScannerDanner I have not checked that wire because the nissan technician told me this: "This really more or less indicates a short to ground on the positive battery cable. Somewhere between the starter and the battery, it's probably touching or worn through the insulation and touching causing the thing to blow. Check the shorter part that goes to the fuse box as well, but this is likely on the longer part. Also, you want to closely inspect the negative cable. These sometimes break, where it goes from the body over to the transmission. That can cause a lot of electrical issues like this."
I assumed there must be one directly to the alternator as well but I couldn't understand the wiring diagram haha. All the cables are wrapped individually then the cables from different components are bundled together under that split loom stuff so it's impossible to see the colors. Should I just cut all that stuff off?
Also, the alternators were replaced by firestone each time so I certainly hope they weren't cheap parts haha.
And those other fusible links are part of the actual entire terminal that holds the 120 amp fuse as well. It's this: www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/dorman-oe-solutions-3387/lighting---electrical-16777/fuses-16615/fuses-11492/da78d762ece6/dorman-oe-solutions-60-100-120-amp-battery-fuse/924078/4260509
We bought the part from nissan the first couple times but as you can expect it was very expensive so then we used this dorman one the 3 times after that.
We didn't modify anything in any way, we don't know how to do that haha. In all 5 times that the 120amp fuse has blown, the other 4 fuses in the piece did not blow.
Another great video showing the basics of voltage drop testing.
@MrJgonzalez2 good question. the answer is no because the circuit isn't truly loaded. however if you read 12v on the feed and 0v on the ground then you can feel safe to put a bulb in it. of course you could have a burned out bulb AND a wiring problem but its highly unlikely.
GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER YOU ARE GOD SENT. TODAY I RAN INTO THIS PROBLEM WOULD JUST GET A CLICK FROM THE STARTER. TOOK IT OUT DID A BENCH TEST TURNED OVER EVERY TIME HAD POWER, I WAS ABOUT TO REPLACE THE STARTER BUT DECIDED TO LOOK YOU UP FIRST THAT GOD I DID. I DID YOUR TEST AND IT WAS JUST A LOSE GROUND. THANK YOU BROTHER
Awesome!
y replace it if it past bench tests ? Test and test dont just part change
+Joseph Sepe God Bless You My Brother. I was thinking maybe a week starter
U did better than me
Nice job, you deserve an Ice Cream.
Thanks for the video Dan. Got a intermittent no crank issue I've been chasing for a couple years now on a 2013 KIA soul 2.0. It comes and goes, and never does it when the engine is fully warmed up. Only on following random days it chooses to no-crank.
I have full 12V to main starter positive always
Full 12v to signal when cranking only
No short to ground key-on-crank with block ground test
Newest symptom the last two days it's not cranking: starter turns for a split second then nothing every attempt. Next day today, again starter cranked for a split second and no longer cranks again.
Does this just sound like a bad starter?
That's a great demo of a common problem.
Great video I have been looking all over and found nothing about it,And then found it here,I also ran that test and have power to the block.Keep up the good work and thank you for the help.
Nice
You have been putting out some great educational videos, thanks!
Glad you like them!
This video helped me find a loose earth cable, thanks
so to start it can you just clamp on a jumpercable from the - of the battery to a hunk of metal on the engine
Great info. It would be very helpful, however, if you showed the starter circuit diagram so we can see why the test light lights up when the ignition switch connects 12v to the starter. Thanks.
So What if you don't have volt on the S terminal of the starter solenoid ,but you do have power in and out from the ignition switch , just wonder.. Great video tho
That could indicate 1: a bad starter relay 2: an open/short in the wiring between ignition switch and relay, or between relay and solenoid. 3: also park/neutral/clutch-switch could be a factor here, which also could be PCM controlled. Testing from the relaybase can be a good starting point here, verify you have two powerfeeds etc. If that checks out, then you know the problem is between the relay and the solenoid :)
Is this the same test you'd run for a slow cranking condition? Vehicle starts but is throwing both cam sensor codes and stalls intermittently. I smell a strong burnt electrical small under the hood seems to be coming from the area of the starter. Also has code for low battery voltage but battery is new and charged. Was just replaced and connections to the battery posts were cleaned thoroughly and are tightened down properly. I suspect a bad ground or wire or the starter itself but there may be more to it.
Absolutely, if you suspect a block ground issue (starter ground), measure the starter housing or the block during the cranking period with your voltmeter black lead connected directly to battery nagative
Nicely done brother I think I'm having the same problem
You are The MAN
Clear and to the point,can't ask for more,Cheers!
I know how to check bad ground with a test light awesome dude thanks
great demonstration. keep up the good work brother.
I need that info, thanks bro
When you were checking the smaller gauge wire, did you have a t pin in there? Or did your volt meter read that just clamped on the wire?
DC volts, most likely a 20v scale depending on your meter
good video but what the car doing ? before fix the problem mine is making one click lights work , radio work ( my lights have been flicking for the las past month so if that helps ) mecanic is telling to get a new starter and i want to make sure since is 300 dollars and he didnt run all those test car been park for 4 days now the monirng before this happpened the car star slow cracking so i kind of new something was wrong then in the afternoon i turn car off never turn back on ( i charge battery and hit the starter multiple times nothing ( just a click seems like coming from starter area ) ( hard to reach under engine block ) Honda crv 2012 any ideas? thank you
why did you say the voltage at big post was good if the voltage read 12.12v? Same question for the small gauge wire which read 11.97? If the battery is fully charged to 12.6 and a battery needing a charge at 12.4..how do you explain those two voltages as good if they read well below 12.4?
+centexn normal cranking voltage is around 10.5 to 11volts. Yes 12.12 and 11.97 were slightly low considering a fully charged battery but definitely high enough to tell you it was NOT a battery issue. Make sense?
It makes sense only in that normal cranking voltage is 10.5-11v. So it would be fair to say nominal batt charge can be -.5v from 12.6 or 12.1v and still be considered a full charge? Cranking voltage can be a full v1/2 less than "full charge" at 12.6? What then would be the lower limit on voltage reading to be considered bad? Start line control voltage(spade connector) should read 12v on the meter. Ignition switch start mode should read the same. I dont have a ground problem. Nocrank yes, then very sluggish and labored one time start yesterday returning to nocrank. It did crank with jumping big post and spade lug w/remote start switch. Its got to be on the start control circuit. I thought I had won with your assistance....still fighting
+centexn So, I need two voltage readings from you like I showed in this video DURING cranking, when the car is not starting. Can you do that for me? Then I can help.
+ScannerDanner Premium my own comment went to spam! I just unlocked this
@@centexn dirt or part broke wire,it work when you use temp wireing
the first thing that happen was i went to start it ,IT crank then died within seconds tried it 4 times and then the was no crank ,no start. First thing I through of was the starter took it out and had it tested. I broke off the ignition screw on the starter when reomove it.but the auto store said it was a bad starter
I have a 02 chevy trailblazer with no crank,no start.I have replace the starter. test ignition switch,test starter relay and socket,replaced both neg and pos battery cables.cleaned all grounds, check all fuses both front and back. moved around some relays that where the same. I still have no crank no start any help I would really appreciate because the vehicle has now been sitting over a month.
scan reader has no codes.
Thanks Paul Danner
Ya the clicking is coming from behind the back seat relay
?
@Bermaringen LOL, you heard that huh? I shot this one months ago when it was still warm, I don't know why I waited so long to upload it.
Would a bad ground cause your starter fuse to blow??
@@tyronekitchens4245 I've seen bad grounds do crazy things and typically I'd say no. However, it is possible with electric motors for a bad ground to cause excessive current flow
We have a 2005 Grand Marquis, it has a no start, no crank issue. when you remove the negative cable of the battery, then you clip the test light to the negative cable, and touch the negative post on the battery, the test light lights up, how do you fix this issue???
It is becoming more and more difficult to answer questions here. I have 80,000 people asking me for help now. So I have created a forum to help you guys better. It is free to join and we can exchange pictures, wiring diagrams and waveforms if needed to help guide you through the process of troubleshooting your vehicle. Thank you so much! Hope to see you there.
Paul Danner (ScannerDanner)
www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
Good job. God bless you.
will a bad block ground cause battery to spark when connecting the terminals? please respond
You sir are a legend!
My situation was a little bit odd (laguna 1 2.2 1998). Dash went crazy, a ticking noise could be heard from the computer which holds the glow plug relay. The car fixed itself after a few hours of tinkering around and unplugging the glow plugs. After a week it died again. I went on a cable cleaning spree but still no luck - managed to screw up my odometer ( it never goes back to 0 when the car is off, and shows a constant 1000rpm more than it should ). After 30 hours of searching for problems, cleaning every fuse, relay, cable and sensor - no luck. I gave up, accidentally found this video - had the same symptoms. A hard lesson to learn on your own. Thank you once again!
with that bad block ground , is that from battery negative black cable to mottor ? or is that a separate cable or wire from block to car framework ground ? I'm having this same problem.... and don't know if motor has a separate cable from motor to car framework if so that would answer my problems , help
It was a bad block ground, which I believe went straight to the battery. There are some where the the main block ground will go to the frame or body of the car. Then their will be another main ground cable that would go from the frame or body of the car to the battery.
Stellar tutorial!
Right now I'm on my 01 maxima v6 it wont start. it would start before but it would make this weird sound(kinda like a dyeing duck). To get it to start I would have to hit the gas while it would crank (But this would happen when i run errands and turn the car on and off) Now when I try to start it no start no crank!! all I hear is the starter click what do you think it could be ?
Thanks for the help
So far i already ruled out
*starter
*battery
*Neutral safety switch
The flywheel looks good too.
I am directing all help requests to my forum. Sign up (it's free) and create a new post. Be sure to add a name under "alias" as this is the name that will appear in the post.
Here is the link to the forum.
www.scannerdanner.com/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=3226
I have a 2003 honda that will crank but will not start and there power still in the starter ignition line and no obd2 reading why.
Great video Paul.
Thanks again!
Wicked. Nice demo.
Awesome. South Africa
Nice and simple
cool,good simple info nice.
Good video... you missed the Ice Cream Truck!
can you differentiate "key on" versus "crank position"? i do not speak this kind of english.
Ignition switch on or run position would be "key on"
"Ceank position" is ignition switch in the crank position. If it's a push button, you're pushing the button 🙂
My 97 Acura RL w/200k has been doing this for years intermittently and now it just clicks with no dimming lights. I hear the starter is a 500.00 job and you have to take 1/2 the car apart to get to the starter :( battery brand new and tests okay. loud click but no crank.
Not on my honda accord 97, im a noob and I did it for the first time yesterday in like 4 hours, put it back on this morning in like 40 minutes. There are literally like 2 cables, 2 main bolts and a few nuts n shit attached to it. It's about the size of 1 big fist or 2 woman sized fists.
When doing a loaded circuit test on a light bulb circuit if theres an open filament on the bulb the result you get would it be a true result?
That’s why he checks with battery first
all you vids the best,,
@scannerdanner Where can I get a wiring diagram for my 03 Mercury?
What do u set the volt meter to ?
very helpful video..tnx n Godbless!
Another bad ass vid. Thanks
+Miguel Torres thanks bro
thank you scannerdanner
thanks for watching!
I would have WENT? Non Monsieur c'est : i would have gone.
?
..am from Chile, south America and I got a S10 Apache 2.4 MPFI with brand new solenoid starter motor, thing is; as soon as I did crank it, two of the wires coming from the starter switch burned up real bad, both of these negative (I have the schematics)...is it bad ground symptoms?
Where are these wires? Bolted to the battery post of the starter or bolted to the block?
no they come from the starter switch, gave crank and I did end up with smoke and burned insulation in those wires....give me an mail and I´ll send the schematics, those are marked B2 ´nd D2!
I don't know what a starter switch is. Do you mean the ignition switch?
yeap ignition switch going down or going up to...I just don´t know but am about to give crank again, ....any suggestion on do testing before do it?
Awesome 👏
How would I do the test light test if the battery is in the trunk. Please help asap, I have a no crank with a brand new starter, starter tested good. Battery is good. Checked fuses, swapped starter relay with known good relay. Neutral safety switch seems to be good. When trying to start, the starter just clicks.
Connect it between the body of the car and the block
@@ScannerDanner Thanks for your reply, I used a voltmeter on the block and frame. Meter shows 0. Block ground is fine! Any more suggestions is greatly appreciated. 08 Charger 3.5 Can hear relays clicking and starter clicks as well when trying to crank.
Yep. Take two voltage measurements on the starter while someone holds the key in the crank position.
Both the heavy cable stud and the solenoid wire
@@ScannerDanner Did 2 test at the starter, the big heavy wire has 12.6 volts and the small control wire had 0.26 volts at crank but dropped down to 0.02 volts within a second after crank. Also back probed the small control wire but same results.
@@tinytim9453 so you are missing "control", now it is time to tell me what you are working on. I need year, make, model, engine size
Park/Neutral switch, ignition switch, anti-theft or immobilizer issue etc is where we are.
Do you have access to a scan tool? Can you check for trouble codes too for me?
bad ass video tho. thanks
👍👍👍
Здравы будьте наши Американские браты)).