should you duck while air strafing? (any difference between strafing with / without crouching?)
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2021
- Music: Risk of Rain 2 OST - The Rain Formerly Knows as Purple
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big thanks to: Mustache & trigger_hurt for their contributions in research
FAQ:
Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations). - Hry
hey. just wanted to quickly explain why this video is kinda weird / different. someone decided to give me a lot of money to check if there's a difference in air strafing with or without ducking. since the research's already done, i might as well turn it into a video and share it with everyone, which is why this was made. back to the usual next video :)
So you basically got commissioned to do this? Very nice
@@bassbusterx indeed
oh wow
So I'm guessing crouching doesn't help you turn faster whilst in the air right?
think you could make a video explaining the weird crouched while you appear standing bug? you did it at 0:20 in the video. it seems to be a client side thing where you have to actually see the player press and hold crouch while they're in the "flailing arms and falling" animation, otherwise they'll just appear crouched as normal.
I remember telling someone that there's no difference and getting heavy pushback from multiple other people.
They all insisted that they could "feel" an "obvious" difference. Placebo is crazy, man.
I think it's the carpal tunnel.
@Cecilia Cole don't need personal experience when we're literally underneath a verifiable proof lmao
They can feel e difference in confidence
They can feel a difference, the camera changes right? That's why it feels different lol
@Cecilia Cole that makes sense, thanks for being constructive btw
every tf2 surfer is gonna come to this video and reccomend you to actually duck while surfing in tf2 since there's a difference in it from other source engine games
Yeah, but what Shounic is referring to in this is pure air strafing, when not touching anything like the surf ramps
I'm gonna come back to this video tomorrow, and if I don't see every TF2 surfer in the comments section, I'm going to register a complaint with the Management
Hello, I'm every tf2 surfer, you called?
Bro this vid legit explains why this makes no fucking difference
It’s still good to duck because, like with crouch jumping in general, you can reach ledges you ordinarily wouldn’t if you’re crouched…. Am I whooshing here?
I always *duck* when I rocket jump
Gotta keep Merasmus happy.
So you don't know how to c-tap
@@jUppers I ctap then hold crouch after. Why so confrontational?
B O N U S D U C K S
B O N U S D U C K S
B O N U S D U C K S
unrelated to anything discussed, but those glowing airtrails make me think you could pull some crazy fireworks shows with script-controlled scouts
This is brilliant
theres an ancient video thats pretty similar to what ur suggesting: czcams.com/video/Dn9970dxQ2g/video.html
Somebody should do this
even if it did change something I wouldn't be able to change my habits. I always keep both duck and jump held while rocket or sticky jumping, and I've been doing that for 7 years, the muscle memory has been written into my muscle fibers and it's never getting out
Came here to say this lol. It feels too weird not to hold duck
for rocket jumping, you're supposed to hold crouch for follow ups (wallshots) and for sticky jumping it's really just preference on how you airpogo (uncrouched is for the weak)
never ever give up on replacing a habit, even an ancient one. the old one is sticky, but reinforce the new one and it will inevitably overcome.
it's actually pretty easy to change that habit, 2-3 hours and you'd be done
As an expirienced rocket jumper I agree with this statement
You take more knockback while crouching so if you are jumping into enemies: you should let go of crouch (otherwise bullets deny you ez) and if you need to leave: hold crouch and jump/rocket jump out to surf their damage out of there edit: but also sometimes explosive classes will make you go too high and get stuck above a doorway if you crouch and don't pay attention to what's going to hit yah
This is something that I wonder about though.
You go higher when you crouch and rocket jump, but if I am not mistaken, this is because you are closer to the ground. It's the same reason for why ctaps work.
That explains a few things. Will keep that in mind.
@ุ bruh hes in australia its midday for him
or morning. but definitely not night time lol.
Damn that's a super good point. I'll make sure to remember that when I'm gardening morons on hightower.
The rain that was formally known as purple in the background is always a win
didnt know there was a risk of rain forecasted for this weeks shounic.
:(
Been looking for a comment like this! Soldier's ATG is electric
@@goatboy4018 ???
@@cf1925 this is a reference to the popular rogue-like video game duology Risk Of Rain. In Risk Of Rain 2, there is a specific phrase written in the description of the weapon known as the "Ukelele." This phrase has been known as "...And his music was electric." Thus, his joke, is a reference to the famous quote from popular video game Risk Of Rain 2.
@@ohnojericho_ Oh, okay, thanks!
(Portal 2 speedrunning knowledge here) Ducking while strafing is usually used not for better air control but instead for faster bunnyhops. If you do a bunnyhop while crouched and the next hop uncrouched then continue this alternating pattern, you can maintain a higher speed than normal. This is due to the way that the game handles friction during the very short time you're in contact with the ground. Granted, Portal 2 has an aircontrol limit of 300 UPS, so past that you can't airstrafe anyway. In that circumstance, alternating crouches helps preserve speed better (assuming you're going in a straight line).
This is entirely irrelevant to the point of the video, I was just reminded of it.
i got scared as fuck reading your comment, if i fucked something up, but the end was a huge relief :)
@@shounicyoutube comment correction jumpscare
Two things to keep in mind:
You should consider that ducking causes you to get pushed further by enemy attacks for the same reason that ducking causes you to get pushed further by your own explosions. So if you try to strafe around a sentry: don't duck, it will push you away. If you are trying to jump away from a sentry: DO duck, because the Sentry's bullets (and rockets) will push you further and get you out of danger faster.
Also remember that you can only duck twice during a single jump, so don't spam it (a lazy bandaid fix by Valve to combat crouch exploit, which is a huge topic I wish shounic could make a video about lol)
The following at least used to be the case:
Ducking mid air moved your player character visibly, thing especially scouts could abuse.
This was “fixed” by limiting the amount of times one can crouch in air to two, for each jump
Ducking mid air also caused increased knock back, meaning to crouch or not was also cituational. Soldiers rocket jumping in never should crouch and medics surfing damage (even hitscan) would try to maximise the time they were airborne and crouching while escaping.
So if soldiers wanted to pogo after a rocket jump, they couldn’t spam crouch mid air to surf some damage and tank the rest, or to mess with their own hit box, as they needed at least one crouch to chain rocket jumps.
I have no idea if this limit was removed and animations/hit boxes fixed at some point, so all of this might be outdated information.
I like the risk of rain 2 soundtrack
Agreed. Noticed it right off lol. "The Rain Formerly Known As Purple" for those yet to be enlightened!
thank chris christodoulou for that 🙏
i'm just expecting brass contraption spawn sound now lmao
I always crouched while rocket jumping to make my hit box smaller
this was my reason too
Ok haven’t had time to watch yet
The reason we duck while market gardening is it extends the amount of time we can click the Market Gardener and score a critical hit (typically if the person is moving backwards, but if they are on a floor that you wont land on, that will work too)
Additional tidbit, when you crouch on the ground your torso moves down but if your airborne your legs come up. This is why as it delays you hitting the ground by a couple HU.
@@Bean41 that is placebo levels of delay and could not even exist
@@stolentrevin He did say it was literally just a few of hammer units. This isn’t to say it’s a massive difference, but a difference nonetheless.
@@OGSumo yes... that is why im saying its placebo levels of delay
@@stolentrevin I don't think you know what a placebo is
March 31, 2022: I finally got my phone to autocorrect "ducking" to "fucking," perhaps we can escape this cursed timeline yet.
Loved the song you chose for the video, and it was my favorite part too
I always had this doubt, thanks for answering it, Shounic!
Just here to say I appreciate the choice of music. Video was as informative as ever too.
when you use mantreads and rocket jump without crouching, there's a chance you'll get 2 different falling animations that only appear when using mantreads
Thanks shounic very cool!
Very useful info in the video and comments love this stuff thanks
Simple, concise and informative. I love your content.
Very cool miniscule detail thanks shounic
Among other things, I like the immortalization of ROR2 by its soundtracks seeping out. Chris Christodoulou is a great composer
Really happy to hear Risk of Rain music in the background!
I've always wondered about this, thanks!
Don't you take more knockback in the air while crouched?
Yes, one reason not to crouch if you are bombing scouts
taking more knockback is good. take enough and you can airstrafe, literally free speed boost and less predictable movement graciously gifted to you by the enemy
just dont hit a wall or ceiling >:(
Ducking in the air gives you a couple more frames before landing, increasing the chance of hitting your market garden
hears the first few beats
"oh yeah, here comes some fine tunes"
Amazing music choice
I shall use this new information, thank you kind sir.
the risk of rain soundtrack has become a great tool of the tf2 youtuber
couldn't be happier
my favourite tf2 youtube channel + the rain formerly known as purple as bgm? SIGN ME THE FUCK UP
Wow thats really fascinating
Any difference in how the hitboxes line up while ducking in mid air?
previously, yes. now, i don't remember, my gut says no.
Your hitbox will be small if you duck if I remember correctly
Hitboxes are smaller while crouching, however, you take *much* more knockback while crouching
That RoR2 music activated a very specific part of my brain
That is helpful. Thanks!
I love your thumbnails and your graphics
This is one of my favorite tf2 channels
I’ve been listening to risk of rains soundtrack so often I thought Spotify was on playing it in the background 😂
Happy to hear ror2 music! Great video!
Good job lad
“What a great and informative vide- WAIT IS THAT THE RAIN FORMERLY KNOWN AS PURPLE?!”
Your knowledge of and interest in this game is amazing, I enjoy watching your videos a lot!
IS THAT THE RAIN FORMALLY KNOWN AS PURPLE POG I LOVE RISK OF RAIN 2
Hell yeah! I'ma go listen to the song again
Nice music choice.
Neat. I'd assume standing while strafing is standard for trolldiers since you can get some bhops in before getting a market gardener crit.
holding crouch gives u a bigger window 2 time ur swing then u cn let go n bhop if u miss the first swing
@@nya69 You'd need some insane reactions to be able to see yourself miss and then quickly uncrouch to bhop, since by the time you hear either the hit sound or the whiff sound, you're going to hit the ground in a fraction of a second.
@@nya69 Never thought of it that way. Guess I need to look into practicing the time between being crouched and being able to jump ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@whirl3690 You don't have to know if you missed, you just do the same inputs (uncrouch+mousewheel) every time you land anyway because you want to be able to walk and jump as soon as you hit the ground to get out.
@@whirl3690 w a bit of experience u know when ur gna miss before u swing so its a lot easier 2 jus uncrouch n jump again when u land bt its still viable to swing, miss, bhop n swing again since u cam uncrouch n jump while swinging
love this song
Thank you, now i need to erase that for my muscle memory, I hope it's not gonna take so much time.
I approve 👌
You just opened the box of pandorica
Nice and little thx :D
I really like this style of video. When there are small things and I just don't know which one is correct if makes me so mad, having clarification is really nice. Quick follow up, do you know if ducking when are in the air can alter the amount of damage you take from fall damage?
I love when sniper mains tell me "bro just hold crouch xddd" when it literally makes zero difference
Nice Risk of Rain 2 music!
informative 👍
Good to know, I was always think that I was doing it wrong for holding the duck while rocket jumping due laziness.
yo i appreciate the risk of rain 2 music
THE stage five Risk of Rain SONG
So that's why rocket jump was so hard for me! I always thought you needed to duck in mid-air to maintain air control, making holding all the buttons down super hard.
Lols.. I was curious about this and Im like "well if anyone has a video on the subject it would be subject" and sure enough with a search I found your vidja lmaooo Nice.
Nice unusual, I have the same effect on a Brigade Helm for my pyro :)
Top shelf thumbnail
Love the Risk of Rain music
I have been unlearning to press crouch at every possible moment because landing while crouching slows you down quite a bit. Most jumps in maps (not talking about rocketjumps) are built to be doable with non-crouch jumps and are sometimes actually faster that way since you reach the grounded state earlier. More specifically: A non-crouch jump can allow you to reach the grounded state while you are still moving up, and is consistent with very specific ledge heights. One example would be the long dynamite-crate prop.
Thanks!
~every soldier in existence
I haven’t watched any TF2 content in ages and yet this got recommended to me out of nowhere today. Has this video been chosen by the algorithm? Interesting findings either way.
Loving the ror2 music in these
My first thought was "Hey, thats RoR2 OST!"
Damn, even though I just got to know the game, its nice to notice that :)
Hello shounic! I've been wondering with the halloween season, how is damage calculated for pumpkin bombs? If I shoot at an enemy who has 40 health with a rocket, will I kill them with my rocket or will I kill them with the pumpkin bomb? Does the game check if I hit pumpkin bombs with my rocket before applying the damage? And by extension to the halloween theme, how do halloween spells work, like how does the short circuit ball suck you in? Would this be enough for a video? :D
Would be interesting if crouching whilst rocket surfing made any difference though (like playing a surf map, but also using the rocket jumper as an extra form of acceleartion)
Aw, dude, love that ror2 soundtrack!
Having some empirical evidence for this is actually pretty useful
Love the RoR2 music dude
Instant like for the Risk of Rain 2 OST
the fact that shounic is using ror2 music is extremely based
You should make a video deducting every mechanic that makes a rocket jump, and why certain jumps work the way they do like cramping
Now if only I could learn to stop holding _forward_ while air strafing.
gunboats will get you there
that's one of the first things you learn though D:
Hey shounic, does detonating stickies while you have the sticky bomb launcher out do more damage or is it placebo effect?
What about hitbox size? Will it help with dodging rockets aimed to airshot you?
Hey Shounic, I was wondering if you'd ever do a deep dive into the Raid gamemode, I'm sure there's some leftovers that you could find in the leaked code.
I appreciate the risk of rain 2 soundtrack
if you press tap duck very quick for like a couple frames after jumping you do some weird air animation thats only visible to other people, maybe you could look into t
giga chad for using risk of rain music
well in that case ducking is a tiny bit better, since there is less chance you will bump into something when flying trough small holes. and maybe air-shots might be a _tiny_ bit harder for enemy soldiers/demos
Nice to know for demomen too
Gotta love that ror 2 soundtrack am I right
Let’s go Risk of Rain soundtrack
bonus ducking
ok but ngl all this video made me want to do is play some risk of rain 2 cause of the great song choice
I always hold crouch out of habit but yeah the few times I do let go/forget to hold it I never really noticed a difference
damn it now i wanna play risk of rain
I saw you at Dustbowl, duct, payloads. Not only once, but serveral times. your name was 'aa'. You are living in the Asian religion, You good.
Ducking has lot more uses for hitting melee tho like market garden and airstabs. Does it affect the hitboxes as well?
I was taught to crouch in the air because "it reduces your collision hull and so mitigates the physics engine's application of drag on your launch speed"
And so I've lived for over 12 years believing that.
It is truly fascinating that the design of a game like Team Fortress 2 continues to be taken apart so many years after first being published. ^_^ It fascinates me and I've never even played the game (enjoyed the lore drops though).
Me, who can’t even straf during rocket jump: Interesting question!
Thats interesting. I always felt that I could strafe harder while not ducking. When ducking, it felt like it just didnt turn as well and lost speed while trying.
Everytime I hear the ror2 music I pause and or get closer to the speaker. My mind is stuck in monsoon
Hi shounic, there is indeed a difference between strafing crouched and uncrouched! This is well known with surfers since some shortcuts can only be performed if you do them uncrouched. From my understanding of it, this is because tf2 calculates your airstrafing speed based on your walking speed [as such, scouts are able to strafe sharper than all other classes in tf2] this means that whilst you are crouched you’re effectively reducing your groundspeed which affects your airstrafing ability. You can see this as you cannot airstrafe while crouched as heavy. I can see that your video doesn’t really show these differences but that’s because the way crouching affects strafing is by reducing your ability to turn sharper. You could try playing with surf settings and seeing if there is a difference in higher ranges of motion.
This is the case in CS:S but not TF2. Many tf2 surfers instinctively hold down crouch while surfing since it not only makes no different in airaccel but also makes your hitbox smaller allowing for fitting through tighter gaps. Any skip that requires being crouched or uncrouched would likely depend solely on the hitbox size difference. In CS:S crouching makes your airaccel noticeably lower so your strafes have significantly less power over your trajectory.
@@Xbman98that might be true now since plugins have been updated to also allow other classes such as heavy which wasn’t the case back then, but the fact you’re crouched in midair should technically provide a little difference which is negligible when your air accelerate is set to 150, in a real game though it’s much more noticeable since the ground speed of each class paired with the lower air accelerate make it fairly obvious if you’ve ever played against s really good scout
As a lot of people here have said that knockback is affected by crouching, so does that include knockback on yourself aka rocket jumping? I feel like the test you did is incluclusive since you didnt account on being in a "rocket jumped" state (like when you get the woosh sound effect)
how about having more movement speed mvm upgrade + mantreads = tighter airs trafing?
I've noticed this when i memed in mvm as a trolldier, and as i upgraded the movement upgrade, i somehow can strafe tighter than before, but not sure if its acrtually true, please check it out if you want.
I've had an opposite situation on a x10 server where the skullcutter gives you -100% movement speed. I tried using the sticky jumper with it to perform a crappy market garden with it and quickly found out I couldn't airstrafe with the skullcutter out.