TI3/TI4 Comparison with Sam Healey
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Sam Healey points out some of the main differences between the 3rd and 4th editions of Twilight Imperium, from Fantasy Flight Games!
00:00 - Introduction
02:16 - Basic comparison
32:37 - Final thoughts
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The biggest disadvantage of TI4, that I hope FFG will fix ASAP is, that it's not yet on my shelf. :D
Sam's new top four games
4. Twilight Imperium 1st Edition
3. Twilight Imperium 2nd Edition
2. Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition
1. Twilight Imperium 4th Edition
Jokes aside, you're forgetting blood rage... BLOOD RAGE!!! Clearly that should be between 3 and 4.
I found out ti 4 was announce the same day i bought a copy of ti 3
Robo 1234 what a bummer, return it if you can
Ouch....
same with me... sad.
This video made me spend the $125 to order the game even though I've yet to play my copy of TI3.
jumpyg1258 I ordered it way before!
jumpyg1258 Same here.
i've had Ti3 and shattered expansion for a year now. Haven't played. and just order Ti4. I have issues...
impulse bought TI3 and both expansions and everything aligned perfectly so within a month i played an 8 hour game...took 14 hours...greatest board game ever
Maxx Mittelstadt I fully get that. I am the one with better salary out of my group and want everyone to have a good time so it's usually me hosting, purchasing snacks and beer. Yet it is worth it and those who have the means should always do what they can. But I completely relate to your comment
This video omits A LOT of differences - racial abilities have changed, no Lazax side-game, no traps or captains/commanders, tech trees are simplified/changed, no political figures for sabotage/assassination, AND THE FACT THAT YOU NO LONGER NEED TO POP THE SHIPS OUT OF PLASTIC - THEY ARE PROVIDED SEPARATED AND ALREADY ZIPLOC'D.
I'm here 2 years later to say the Expansion has some of this stuff if your miss it
One of the guys we played TI4 with the other day suggested simulating ground combat with a 40k battle. 5000pts per infantry unit in TI! And simulating the space combat with xwing or Armada! Just imagine....
thats like bannerlord CK combo on PC
however this kind of tabletop monster combo would make 8hour game into weeeks worth of play
@@marosmierka1904 If you had a massive dedicated gaming space this could be epic - like a long intensive campaign.
OMG... such and epic moment... Sam taking on TI4... the intro music was spot on XD
Awesome! I've been waiting for this!
Great video, Sam! Hearing your thoughts on the comparisons was very insightful!
Playing TI4 this weekend. Thanks Sam!
Thanks for doing this comparison! Great video Sam! :) Well done! This really helped me understand the differences very quickly and easily!
Thanks Sam, been waiting for this!
Been waiting for this video
As someone who has put a ton of time and money into customizing a lot of things in 3rd edition, I'll stick with it. I played 4 full 6-player games of TI4 now and it's good. I prefer it over TI3 any day, but there are a few things I actively dislike about the new system. One is I'm not a fan of the new tech as I feel it is too streamlined and the tech wasn't that hard to get before (especially if players had tech trees to reference). My other gripe is I don't like the lack of combat objectives. I get that they're mixed in with the secret objectives, but there was something about having a 2-point combat PO out on the table that just raised the tension in the game. I will probably eventually switch to TI4, but not in the near future. Again, TI4 is much better than base TI3, but with all the custom rules and races that I and many others use, it's not worth the switch just yet.
Julia Jannace would you recommend 4 over 3 for new players?
Strider Zessei "Again, TI4 is much better than base TI3..."
Almost certainly. 4 is more streamlined and you really don't need any houserules to "fix" it. 3 requires a ton of houserules and modules to get to the place the 4 is at.
I really like ti4 over -3. (Except the new destroyer model). Way better than ti3 base game
@@Julia-vh3ky which in particular do you use? everyone seems to have their own preferred fixes
I was waiting for Sam's opinion on TI4. Great comparison review! I've only playe dTI3 once, but we really enjoyed it, so I expect we will enjoy TI4.
The commodities thing was a really good move to increase deal making. In TI3, you rarely had such a surplus of trade goods (unless you were Hacan) that you would ever trade them away instead of just spending them yourself. At most you might have minor deals for 1 TG.
Commodities makes it possible for big deals to be made very often for 3 or 4 goods. Add in the improved promissory notes (and the very interesting racial promissory notes), AND the much improved political system, and you have a TI that finally lives up to the politicking promise that never quite materialized in previous versions.
very good video sam thanks for the effort!
Dear Sam Healey,
I'm frustrated and utterly annoyed that you went to Gen Con, played TI4, and then took this long to make a video about it. Come on, you slacker.
Sincerely,
Ike Evans.
P.S.
I'm just kidding (sort of). Please don't punch me in the throat.
I love the changes to tech tree, so easy to remember the changes to your ships :)
No fighting over a game rulebook to check your tech tree while someone else has a rules question.
Are the strategy cards hard cardboard like TI3? Or are they regular card stock?
Since I've heard FFG was releasing 4th edition, I've been waiting for this video. ^^
Great review, Sam! It would be interesting to hear your thought when you compare the two versions including the expansions to TI3. Do you feel something is missing in TI4?
Sam, are you OK? It's a war sun. I know that you know this. War Sun. Senior moments are fine, as it eventually happens to us all.
War Sun. :)
So much hate against the Black Player (lol)...but seriously, I did pre-order TI4, but I will STILL play and keep my TI3 collection. #TI3-4ever!
Public objectives also reference the planet type btw
Live playthrough please Sam.
Thankyou for your trenchant review though I note you had difficulty with the name of the deathticles.
Am looking at getting TI4 but not sure about how difficult it is to learn. I'm not concerned about the game time but unsure of its challenges. Can anyone let me know how hard it is???
So you want to tell me this is a video comparison ?What exactly did you compare except downgrading all the time 3rd Edition?
I hope they reintegrate the Spy, Bodyguard and Diplomat system for voting on things. Just adds a little bit of political intrigue that I find interesting. Leaders and Mercenaries would also be cool. Looking forward to the expansions they get out for 4E.
so Ti4 doesn't have strategy allocation/fleet supply/command pool?
Wow, even the "simplified" TI4 sounds very complex.
NICK Van DAM that's kinda the whole point
Describing TI as "very complex" is like describing the ocean as "very deep". You're not wrong, but it's an understatement of epic proportions!
Watching this makes me feel happy for Sam :)
I like what they did with the Imperial Strategy card. It was too easy points in the 3rd edition.
Didn't answer my question of if you need to buy all the expansions for TI3 or just TI4.
I need to know if any of the functionality of the expansions is in the base game of TI4 if so what?
The races are in it. It doesn't have tanks, doesn't have planet hazards, doesn't have representatives, doesn't have mercenaries, doesn't have production facilities. What it does have is a better tech tree, one you can follow without the book. Streamlined rules, better game pieces, better player mats and a nice insert that keeps things nicely organized.
Would you consider Space Empires 4X from GMT a competitor to TIx?
Where can i pre-order this?
I have TI3 and I love (LOVE) it however I got it for Christmas of 2016 so it's not even a year old yet. I also don't have any of the expansions due to them being hard to find and pretty expensive. So my question is, since I don't have any of the expansions and personally I think this game looks great, would this be worth getting? I feel like there is enough different to warrant a purchase since I don't have any the expansions I just want to know what someone else thinks.
I haven't played TI4 yet so take my recommendation with a grain of salt, but having played probably close to 30 games of fully expanded TI3, I would lean towards getting 4. New mechanics aside, it seems that they have incorporated a lot of the refinements from the expansions, like strategy card changes, promissory notes, all the extra races, etc. as well as made adjustments to reduce the table clutter. The main things you would miss out on from 3's expansions would be the extra tiles allowing for another ring of board space and several minor variant mechanics that can be hit or miss depending on how you play. Plus you would probably be paying close to 4's base price just to get both expansions, the core of which appears to have been integrated into 4.
Thank you Petey. I've been checking Ebay for quite some time now looking for the expansions and they seem to be the same price as TI4 is (keep in mind, I was looking before TI4 was announced). I will pick this up for sure, I just needed someone to help justify buying a brand new version of a game I've only played a couple of times haha.
I had the exact same dilemma. But, I couldn't find those damn expansions and so I did the leap of faith (and money) and bought the final copy of TI4 in my game store here. I was not disappointed. It's like comparing a sports video game. The old version might be good, but the new one is good and updated in every aspect. If you love TI, I think you will eventually succumb to the temptation. And I want to point out that I wasn't excited about the aesthetic of the fourth, I preferred the third. But I stand corrected, everything is top quality.
But Sam I'd gladly sit through 2 hours of you talking about your favourite game!
I have 25 lbs of TI3 in the coffin box, both expansions. It has taken years to perfect the exact means of storing and organizing it. Rarely can I find 7-9 hours of a group's time to finish a game. Of course the game could be cut down. simplified (into Eclipse). and some game balance and glaring asymmetries straightened out. Turtling and kingmaking were common complaints about TI3, I don't know if those issues have been sorted in TI4. Experimenting with action phase variations across the different boxes was actually a + for me but the new ones look streamlined as they should.
The apparent OP of Yssaril also comes up a lot. I have never seen stats on victories by race, but I imagine Yssaril probably had an edge. House rules and forum squabbles solved those problems. I can't actually bring myself to move on. So much was invested in TI3, the madness and variation was part of the reward, but also its frustrations. I wouldn't mind just buying the better models though. Hopefully FF will offer components. I am surprised they kept the Nekros though. You're born enemy #1 and can't participate in an entire essential chunk of the game? I usually toss them to the side as an optional pick.
I`m able to find a copy of a used TI3 for about R$ 250 - 300 (65 - 75 US Dollars). While the new TI4 was about R$ 700 - 800 (190 - 220 US Dollars). Is the difference in price really worth it on this case?
Ty TI3 full is on my Kallax;-) TI4 coming soon
Great video, way to feed my fomo, Sam! But in all seriousness, I couldn't justify the cost even if it fit my budget. It sure is a beautiful package though. My big question is about the race abilities. Have they been tweaked? I know that many of the races in TI:3 were not well balanced.
Nice video. Good editing.
I have the same hype hearing this I had about Mcgregor v. Mayweather.
I had hoped this was a review of the differences in game play, not just components, from what I'm hearing it doesn't seem like there's enough differences to make the change. Cool ships, reorganized player sheet, graphic changes on the planets ect. other than an over haul of the components why would this replace TI3?
Yes the day we waited on, go Sam
Could you tell me if the lore on the racial sheet are the same? Word for word, or hopefully, expanded, cause I am dying for some more TI lore.
Sam here...there is an entire lore booklet in TI4.
That is great to hear! However, not what I was asking specifically. But I guess I'll just wait till I get my copy to compare it.
Thanks.
The main improvement I see is the fixing of the overcomplicated tech tree.
TI3 is easily my favourite game and whilst I'd play TI4 I don't think I'll be buying it myself. There is simply not enough that is different. With the expansions to TI3 I have more game to play as well. Unfortunately I like a lot of the things that FFG have dropped from the new edition (e.g. tech tree, leaders and distant suns). They may surface in the future with further expansions but unless these inevitable expansions add something pretty major to the game I cannot see it being worth the additional expense. If it ain't broke...
Sam, general is fine; generalistic does not appear to be a word. :) Cool video, though!
Disparigant as well. Think he meant disparity.
No more Distant suns! That is a relief! ;-)
"One of the coolest things that I like about Twilight Imperium 4" *WHOOOOOOOOSH*
WHERE'S MY COMPONENT DROP, DICETOWER?!!?!
I was less impressed with the plastic at GenCon. It's not that the quality is low, but that the Cruisers, Dreadnoughts, and particularly the Flagship look too similar; to the point that you can confuse them at a distance across the table.
As far as this video, I wish you'd discussed some of the action cards. It sounds like they're more political than they used to be, whereas they were much more combat oriented in TI3.
Haven't played TI3, but I agree with the flagship and dreadnauts in particular.
As a side note, this kind of makes me wish I had a 3D printer. Designing a unique flagship for every race would have been a fun endeavour and would help alleviate the issue at my table.
Agree. Even carriers and cruisers of the 4th edition look too similar to one another . The 3rd edition's ships design works way more better for the game purposes - to distinct clearly each ship class on the overwhelmed game board without misconception. Though, yeah, the quality of the 4th edition miniatures is impressing.
I wondered how long it would be before we saw a video like this from Sam. :-P
28:50
No. You pay 6 influence to be ALLOWED to land troops on Mecatol Rex. Since landing troops is the way you take the planet.
Just having a ship in the zone does nothing.
I'm only going to talk about the most significant differences. Starting with the box dimensions. ;)
Supposed to edit out the snorting?
Nah, leave it authentic!
Yeah dude that was disgusting
man I wish I could just get the new miniatures somehow =\
Did opening the boxes make Sam out of breath? 3:50
does he know so forth and so on is not the colloquialism?
I don't understand why reviewers feel like they have to hide their opinions until the end of a review.
LOL 11:45 snorting is excellent
Well, having bought TI3 only 7 months ago, and played it only once, I guess I'll stick with it, and buy the Shattered Empire expansion at a cheap second-handed price..
Good luck with that. A single expansion goes for more the TI4
Dana Dodd Jr. Nah.. You can find the Shattered Empire expansion for 60-70€ atm, and it'll become cheaper in the next weeks
Yeah, unless they reprint the expansions (which who knows with TI4 coming out) you're going to spend maybe $100 for a used expansion.
Phil D I guess I'll keep playing with the base game + printed SE strategy cards and printed racial techs, if that's the case
If you discover such a thing as a "cheap second-handed price," please let me know where. I bought it three weeks ago.
not having watched the clip yet - i really hope they have switched the card system (the planet ownership and technology tree) this time. Virtually all other games have moved on. Other than that I've no expectations.
Sadly, the tech tree is still going to be a mess. Why don't they just set the player cards up as in Eclipse, or Terra Mystica (where you put a token on a tech tree)?! That's so much better and easier to track. With cards, I can't see what my opponent has. Sam did not discuss the planet ownership cards (I bet they're cards too). IMHO a very lazy update (although I like the new player sheets).
There's so much more that could have been streamlined and updated with little cost and effort. Instead, FFG spent 5-10 minutes while making an update and ordered a print run in China.
The biggest grudge I have with TI is how much mess it creates and how careful you have to be not to make a mistake while playing (unless you're playing with only experienced players). This does not fix the problem at all.
Great for new starters, but if you already have TI3 + the two expansions then where are the mechanised units, the political delegates/assassins, extra piece sets in grey and orange, optional mix and match agendas to customise play style and so many other small elements. Does it even have racial tech or minefields? Not sure. I can't imagine wanting to leave out delegates though as they are superb. This is an enhanced base game, but does not compare to a fully expanded TI3 yet. Once expansions come out to sell all your missing features back to you again, that will help, but the price point will then be too high. I will not be buying this any time soon and possibly not ever, but I wish the new starters a lot of fun.
Just sad that cruisers don't like a Battlestar anymore =(
Some constructive criticism here. I own TI3, thats why i (and i guess most of the other viewers) watched this video. My intention was, to get an impression of which game changing upgrades TI4 has, so i can decide if i will have to buy it or not.
1) Half of the video, you talk about cosmetic changes: The insert, the new player boards, the new tiles, the new units etc. Imo you could handled those informations in about a minute. I KNOW that it will look different. I wouldve give a quick overview, point out major changes which impact the gameplay and then moved on. No need to compare every unit and say "this is lightyears better" every time.
2) I was looking forward to learn about the new strategy cards because this was a massively discussed issue in TI3. A comparisson to the old strategy cards wouldve made totally sense here (because the whole video is about comparisson), instead of just reading them out and say "thats cool as well" ;)
3) I liked the techtree-section and the trade-explanations ( although this was alrdy shown in the TI4 Miami Dice Episode....)
4) So the most informative stuff was the "other stuff" section which only took 4 minutes of the whole video....
*Facit:*
1) I am totally not happy with how you graded the priorities of relevant information in order to give an effective comparisson of TI3/TI4, because more irrelevant sections (e.g. the units) got way more space than the gameplay changes.
2) Strategy Crad comparisson didnt really happen.
This is ofc just my personal subjective opinion and you might totally disagree, but as I usually totally like your videos, i thought I share my thoughts on this one.
Greetz
Hi, you bring up a lot of good points. There is too much tap dancing going on avoiding any issues that may put TI IV in any negative light. Money inflation problem, as the the gaming world keeps getting bigger so does the budgets and demand for ever increasing profits. FF merges and right away they raise prices.
Dice Tower used to not pull as many punches as they do now as they are I believe too spooked to step on the big bad FF toes and sour relations with CS.
Feels vs facts says that TI IV is better but does not break down a list of why it is better claiming it will take too long? An item list would have worked, even a link yet it is not provided - convenient as no blame could be assigned to the reviews.
Same goes for the related review video of TI IV, I believe there was no item drop as it would show that there are a bunch of duplicates, no unique models and the card stock is a lot flimsier. They said the game was so much bigger but nothing was provided to back up their claims of how the game took up two tables.
Yes TI IV looks more sleek and modern with some streamlining but quick house rules would fix their prior game just as well. It will be interesting to see as commented in the review if the likely two expansions shape out the rest of TI IV or will it come up short.
cool
Me: "I have TI3 with all the expansions. Is buying TI4 worth it?"
The entire Internet: "YES, ABSOLUTELY. 100% CORRECT, YES'ED, AND AFFIRMED."
Me: **watches this video** "Uh, it doesn't really look like it's really worth it at all."
What am I missing here guys?
No more battlestar galactica cruisers :'(
MDF insert coming in 3... 2... 1...
4-8 hours to play. More like 14-18 hours.
The old flagship is a way cooler design.
dannalbob I agree. That being said, the new miniatures are way better quality.
im just yappy the yssaril got nerfed
sad, so sad... this wasn't comparison of ti3 and ti4, this was "ti4 is beater, buy it..."
No more Battlestar Galactica style ships? NO BUY! (kidding obviously)
new tiles look like their are from a totaly generic SF game... they do'n't have the epic TI feel to them
Good grief edit out the snorting X(
Didn't he throw his TI3 copy in the trash?
That would've been a waste, with no satisfaction either (like throwing away a bad game).
So, I am at the 15:21 mark in the video, and so far all you have talked about is cosmestic. That's all well and good, but really, all of it could be summed up in 5 minutes. At the beginning you said to cover all the differences it would take 3 to 4 hours, yet halfway through, still not a thing on actual game play differences. I think the only thing you have mentioned that is tangible is the trade goods bit, and not in depth. Really, cosmetics are not reasons to make the switch. What are the REAL differences?! 20 minutes left in the video to sum up what you initially said could take hours. Bleh.
You spent too long explaining why you couldnt do a thorough comparison. Just say, it wont cover every detail. 12 seconds instead of 2 min. And then you tell us about the size of the box? That's not an important detail. In terms of the rest, maybe script out your dialog. Too many ums, uh, pause. Etc. Otherwise thanks for doing the comparison. I have 3 so wanted to see the new v old
Come on FFG come up with something new instead of re-hashing/Reinventing everything in your catalogue.
No ideas left?
The L5R-based Battle for Rokugan boardgame perhaps? "Something new" often sell less than more of the "same", and they are in the business of making money. If you want fresh ideas, check the plethora of smaller companies pushing new ideas.
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen I do. There's some great new games from other publishers which is why I'm not buying much from FFG of late.
On the question of Battle for Rokugan, sorry to disappoint but looks a lot like a reinvented GOT the board game 2nd ed to me. So once again another reinvent an old game by tweaking a few rules to suit the theme and slapping a new name on the box instead of real game design.
World of Warpaint Battle of Rokugan is nothing like Game of Thrones besides being an area control game.
Wasyl Kurek looks pretty close to me. Similar board, player screens, order tokens.
Same game, it's obvious.
Seriously, you consider that such superficial common elements count as "same game"? Do you also consider Magic: the Gathering to be the same game as Cribbage because playing cards in front of you and some point system is involved?
I am an atheist. To whatever god or deity.... please restrain me from spending cash on this game :(