Silicone 3D Printer Heated Beds: Everything You Need to Know
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- How many watts do I need? How do I wire this thing? Oww... why did that shock me? All questions I try to answer in this in-depth look at silicone heated beds for your 3D printer.
00:00 Intro
00:35 Disclaimer
01:45 Heater Basics
04:57 Heating Speed Benchmarks
05:21 Wiring #1: Control Board to Bed
06:39 Wiring #2: Single PSU w/ MOSFET
08:06 Wiring #3: Dual PSE w/ MOSFET
08:59 Wiring #4: A/C w/ SSR
12:26 Wiring #5: A/C w/ SSR and Thermal Fuse
13:19 "Bed Sandwich"
14:29 Cable Strain Relief
15:08 PID Tuning
This video was republished without the volts/watts/amps graphics as they diverged from the normal model and could cause confusion.
Per Andrew Kowalczyk - when attaching a ground wire to frame it's best to do so via a screw through the aluminum as even 'clean' aluminum extrusion can have non-obvious oxidation that could prevent a solid connection. - Věda a technologie
Firstly, for DC voltage, a threshold of around 30 volts is often considered relatively safe for brief contact. This is based on the concept that at low voltages, the body's natural resistance limits the amount of current flowing through it to levels that are unlikely to cause harm. However, depending on the current source it can be dangerous if the output is shorted in that it can cause severe burns. e.g. an automobile battery output is 12 volts with a current capacity > 200A and it can literally melt metal and if you're in its path then you'll be severely burned.
Likewise, AC voltage can be more dangerous than DC voltage of the same magnitude due to its ability to induce muscle contractions, potentially causing the victim to be unable to release from the electrical source. For AC voltage, the threshold for safe touch is generally considered to be lower than for DC voltage. Around 50-60 volts (25v positive and then 25v negative) AC is often cited as a threshold for safety, again for brief contact.
These are well established safety margins. I learned these margins long ago early in my career as an electrical engineer in the aerospace business.
Secondly, the cork method will likely work fine but be aware that you're adding height to the bed and some printers may not allow you to compensate for that added height easily. You may be able to compensate in the firmware but many don't have the skills or wherewithal to know how to do that. So be cautious when doing this kind of modification and have a plan to compensate for any deviations from the original machine physical characteristics.
Excellent video, and an extremely good point about SSRs most commonly failing closed!
Thanks Fritz. I found out about the SSR failure issue the hard way. Luckily I was close by and was able to shut it down before anything bad happened but I'll never run one without a temp cutoff fuze again. Mains voltage is no joke.
I just picked up an old folger ft5 myself and one of the first things i thought to do was sort the 12v bed heating out. Perfect vid tyvm 👍
I love my FT5. I guess it's no longer an FT5 since it's been gutted top to bottom but it has been a fantastic printer for years and I still love the ladder design for the side. It feels much more sturdy than just sticking a 2040 on one or two edges. Good luck with the printer!
Excellent Video!! Great explanation of the different options. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
very concise and to the point--left me with minimal questions
Take it from a EE and use a power switch that switches the live and neutral. The switch is called a DPST switch. For the AC ground I would attach it to the aluminum plate that the silicone mat is sitting on since most beds have leveling springs or silicone standoffs.
Those beds attached with springs have a screw that goes through the middle of the spring or silicone spacer to the bed and through the mounting hole on the frame to a bed leveling nut. While not always perfect it typically allows connection through to either the y axis rail (for bed slingers) or z axis rails (corexy). Obviously it doesn’t have that connection if your bed is attached with printed parts but if it’s all metal (like mine) it can allow the connection through. I did have to add a wire to the bed still because just that previous connection was still about 60ohms from ac ground on psu to the bed.
Recently found your videos through my bad experience with my Tronxy. Still working on upgrading but I love the informative nature of your videos and delivery. Keep it up!
Glad to help! Seems there are lot of quality control issues with the TronXY which I why I generally point people at the Ender line if they're on a budget. If you're looking at it as a bag of parts, though, there are some good deals to be had.
@@LilMikeysBigPlans So I’ve found. Thanks for offering solutions and not just leaving a review calling it bad and walking away.
@@clanbob Sure thing! It may not be a great printer out of the box but it's a fantastic cheap bag of parts if you don't mind tweaking and fixing things - and you can find it on sale :)
Thanks. Mainly focus on security. I'm looking for the safest AC hot bed possible and this is probably the only video that mentions using the hot line and ground details on the SSR.
Useful info, Im building a X350 x Y700 x Z450 bedslinger and was going to double up but buying a cut to size stand alone sounds good.
great video man.. i extended my ender 3 v2 recently to 300x300x400 and this is exactly what I was looking for to upgrade the bed heater
Glad I could help! Which option did you end up going with?
Ive watched loads of these guides and done the upgrade a few times the one thing no one ever mentions is that the mat heating to temp quickly isn't the same as the heat propagating to the top of the bed you need to allow time for this
You are correct that the surface trails the measured temp especially on thicker glass. I've not personally had too many issues - just allow for some time for temperature normalization and my first layer is a bit hotter than the rest - but I can see that being a concern with more picky filaments.
Well explained.
Thanks!
Great video
Thanks!
Excellent tutorial, thank you!
I believe 'uxcell' is just a generic Chinese retail brand. Meaning other generic Chinese retail brands likely sell the same SSR's as uxcell.
holy crap what a good video
This is my favorite comment ever! Thanks!
Hey a fellow FT-5 owner! Great video. What about using a large heat sink for the SSR instead of the print frame?
Thank you!
You're welcome!
wonderful video, so in the end which is best, the Mofset or SSR?
thanks
How are you sending your bed temps to home assistant and what relay are you using to switch off power to your printer. Are you querying moonrakers api in home assistant?
Hi. I wonder why i can not find any 48v silicon heated bed's?
Everywhere i look i only can find 12v, 24v, 110v or 220v bed's.
Does anyone know why i should not use a 48v silicon heated bed?
I have a Mean Well 48v 13A powersupply.
So I can hook up the silicone heater to my mainboard? I don’t mind how long it takes I just want something simple for now.
Thanks for your video. I was wondering if the silicone heater of 200x200 I wanted to buy would be a problem for my 225x225 aluminium bed.
I do have some feedback regarding your safety disclaimer. It came across with me as if only Voltage matters when it comes to safety risks. In fact, although it's relevant to account for all factors, the real danger lies in the amperage. Voltage will just determine how likely your body's resistance will be enough to prevent becoming a neutral or ground.
High voltage will easily arc thrugh the air and reach your body, but if the current is low, you will just feel a pinch. That's how some domestic 5000 V electrified fences work. They carry a very small current and will only scare you if get near it.
Now I'd rather take 240 V shock from my a circuit in my house than (which I have), than 12V shock with 600A from my car's battery. Not sure I'd survive that easily as the times I got stung manipulating the 240 live without shutting it down.
Unless you had cuts in your hands, 12V from a car battery cannot possibly shock you. It's not a "likelyhood" thing, you objectively will or will not get shocked at a certain voltage with dry, moist wet or cut skin. With cuts in your hands, 12V and 240V are equally as likely to kill you. The threshold for sending your heart into fibrilation is under half an amp. Once you get past the skin layer, your flesh is quite a salty and wet medium, making it a great conductor. Result? Both 12v from a car battery and 240v from the wall will be able to supply enough current to your heart to mess it up.
@@somedude2492 I agree, my main point was that it made sound like low voltage is not dangerous, but low voltage and high amp is very dangerous. It all boils down to a factor of the two which will determine the amount of energy passing through you (J/C and C/s). My hands more often than not have cuts in them. Higher voltage may break the skin barrier easier, but then that is assuming, like you mentioned, you don't have cuts on the skin. Which is quite a gamble for people that tinker a lot.
Helpful video! two questions: are you using a zero-crossing SSR? Are you using PID control on your SSR controlled bed? Is so what switching frequency? From what I understand a Zero crossings SSR can’t switch nearly as fast as a mosfet I’m just wondering if that causes issues with PID control.
I am using a zero-crossing SSR. My understanding is that most SSR - even quite cheap ones - have zero crossing detection if for nothing else but to prevent arcing. I'm using PID control with no issues. My PID tune came up with these values:
pid_Kp: 54.027
pid_Ki: 0.770
pid_Kd: 948.182
Beware that lot of SSR's do not go well if PWM controlled, they will just fail / melt..
When using a SSR, keep the heating control to "BANGBANG" (Marlin) or "Watermark" (Klipper) which just turns the SSR on or off without using a destructive PWM signal
I gotta ask, how much additional time was added to your o to 120°C temp drag race, putting an insulator between the Keenovo and 6160 plate?
I too was a bit concerned, but my solution was to add one more layer of the High Temp 3M double sided affixing tape.
Negligible increase, as I'm still sub 50 seconds to 120°C.
I did use cork though, but as the final layer in my hotbed sandwich 😋😅😁
... Reason being, I've got a 500watt PTC in the chamber, and one of the high velocity 120mm always seemed to wabble the bed temp 5°or more when it kicked ok.
Not anymore with a cord finishing piece tho!
As always, gr8 vid my friend!
...And if you have a spare minute, lenigma1 has sent more than 1 email since Christmas 😉😉
Hey Bo. I've only ever run my silicone beds with a cork insulator so I can't really compare however the numbers should be faster with the insulator as it will keep the aluminum from leeching away the heat so quickly. Either way, I doubt it has anywhere near the impact of the 1/4" glass. That is some thick heavy stuff that adds a ton of mass.
My apologies on the email. Picked one from 2/14 out of Spam. Will reply tonight :) Take care!
This is awesome. Sub'd
Hi, I got a 110v 220v 650w heating mat that has a total of 5 wires coming out, 2 small wires for the thermistor and then 3 red wires with no markings or instructions on how to wire this to 110v and or how to add a thermal fuse in-line, any help would be appreciated
Hey Radikult, the only time I’ve seen three power points on a bed heater was on a 12/24v model that had one pad for 12v, one pad for 24v, and one for ground. Do you have a link to the mat you purchased?
@@LilMikeysBigPlans the mat came with a kit (Voron 2.4 “siboor” was the seller)
I checked all 3 red wires and in between them I get 37omn and 75omn depending on the mix of cables.
If I start combining cable 2 / 1 I get a reading of 20omn
I have contacted the seller but because is a Chinese seller I won’t hear from them until tomorrow or next day if lucky
Wait. What? 14:25 you said you have a solder joint on a mains heated bed? Umm. Am I misunderstanding what is being said. I have always been told that you should never, never have a solder joint on a heatbed connection anywhere. Can you please explain this for me... Thanks.
Great info. What thickness did you use for the cork tile?
Hey Paul, glad you found it useful! I'm using regular 'ole bulletin board cork tile from Walmart. It's 3/16" thick but you should be able to use pretty much any thickness as long as it's thick enough to take pressure off the pad wiring.
@@LilMikeysBigPlans Thanks for the response. This is great timing as I was getting ready to do the heat bed upgrade.
I have a question, lets's say I want to put 3 Ender 3 V2 Beds all together, at 220W per bed I will need at least 660W. If I buy a 1000W power supply, will the mainboard be able to accept the wattage and high amps?
Depends on what you mean by the mainboard accepting the amps. You can power the board off of the 1000w PSI with no issues. It will only draw the amps required. You cannot push that same 1000w out of the board's bed heater terminals as the switching circuitry is not rated for that much draw (at least no board I've seen is). You'll need to use a MosFET for board power.
If you're doing that, might want to consider getting 3 additional MOSFETs, one for each bed. Connect the bed heater output from the mainboard to the 3 MOSFETs and this will reduce the load that a single MOSFET would have.
Your ac silicone bed is very different from mine apparently. You’re showing just over 4 minutes to reach 95c while I did with mine (750 watts while yours is 700 watts) in just under 2 minutes.
which type of cork to be used natural or rubber cork?
Hello Akshay. Mine are just regular cheap-o 1/4" thick natural cork tiles. Cork has a very high flash point and is generally considered flame resistant so it's great for an application like this.
Any recommendations for an SSR from a reputable source? I am very sketched out seeing 10 dollar relays on Amazon/eBay.
I went with uxcell because I've had good luck with their other components - and it's been solid so far - but that's anecdotal. If you're really worried about it, getting a name brand like Omron from a reputable site like Mouser or Grainger would be the safest bet but you will spend quite a bit.
@@LilMikeysBigPlans Thanks!
thanks impotent information
Thanks for watching!
bro I need help, the more I look at yt the less I understand ... I'm afraid I'm going to screw something bad with the heater connection.
I took myself (skr 1.2 pro motherboard) with a few upgrades that I plan to apply ... but the more I look, the more insecure I am about the security of everything.
I need a heat bed, a nozzle heater, a chamber heater (80C max) and maybe a filament heater for drying.
I plan to connect 5 stepper motors (no 17, 3x32mm, 1x40, 1x48mm)
Probably 8-10 fans
2x chamber fans
3x housing
1x power supply
2x cooling of the print
1x hot end
1x filament dryer
+ screen, bl touch and other little things if I left something out
I currently have a 12V 360w (30A) power supply, I think I will need another 24v power supply to connect it all.
Besides ... how many fuses do I need .... 60? How much mosfet do I need?
Wow, Danijel, that's quite a lot to figure out. You're definitely not going to want that all on one power supply - especially a small 12v/360w one. To go through it one-by-one:
8-10 fans, 5 steppers, and your hot end can probably be driven by a single PSU
If you are using a 110/220v bed that won't draw anything but signal from your PSU but if it's 12/24v then you'll want something in addition to the 360watt one you have now.
There seem to be a bunch of options for chamber heat and almost all of them are 110/220v based so no additional PSU there.
You'll want fuses on mains powered 'stuff' - so you'll need fuses for each of your PSUs and make sure whatever your chamber solution is has some sort of fuse. As for the mosfet - they generally have a large operating voltage range and are either 10 or 15 amp which should be plenty for a DC heated bed so as long as you get something from a name brand you should be fine.
It sounds like you're building something quite complex so I would strongly advise you get a friend, family member, or other associate to assist as this kind of electricity is no joke.
Voltage doesn't kill. AMPs do.
great informative video. thanks so much making and sharing your knowledge. for future you try and normalize your audio little better. it's something i haven't done well myself for my videos. but a quick right click on your video, launch the `stats for nerds` and you'll see the audio for you video is normalized around ~ `-9db` get that sucker closer `0db` so i dont have turn my volume on youtube to 100%.
Yeah, I usually apply Vocal Channel with a compressor to bring up the lows but my recording levels were off and it was amplifying noise so I just left it a bit soft. Will spend some more time on the next one. Thanks for watching!
12v Will Never give you a shock! even with water on you hands. Perhaps some people can feel 24v with wet hands i cant!
Wait, you don't lick your printer? :) You are right. 12v generally won't be enough to outright shock you. It can arc though which can cause a jump.
Hello im working on a printer with a dual bed combination do you have a contact mail? i have few questions to ask
Hello ertence, my email is available in the About page.
"ac ssr" is a simple thyristor circuit. There is nothing to pay $50-60 for.
Nice shirt.
Pretty sure it would take at least 2 people.
Maybe 3.
Why don't you go ahead and take 20% off there tsstn :)
im hoping that shirt is a letterkenny reference haha
You're pretty good at recognizing a reference there, Mike, and that's what I appreciates about 'ya.
@@LilMikeysBigPlans this video is unbelievable
@@mikeherald6014 Get this man a Puppers!
@@LilMikeysBigPlans settle down
So, the cork sit on the top of the aluminum bed, the heater pad sits on top of the cork and the glass sits on the upside-down heater pad with the 3M sticky side still covered??
How many people does it take to #*^# an ostrich?? 🤣😂
we heard it was a sick ostrich
Bad gas travels fast
12 to 24 can't shock you heck even 84vdc can't
You're right, 12-24v will not normally give a shock but with a little sweat, open wound, or other conductivity enhancer it can definitely cause a noticeable tingle - as evidenced by a 9v battery on your tounge or a TENS machine (which start as low as 16V output).
No, none of this will electrocute you but the moral of the story is that you should be careful with electricity at all voltages and currents.
so much babbling and overthinking ... 220v heated bed with a cheep chinese SSR is just fine .. no fuse bullshit or grounding wires to frames and other crap like that ... juust keep an eye on the printer when you print .