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Sybil & Dissociative Identity Disorder | Did Sybil Create Multiple Personality Disorder?
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2019
- This video answers the question: What impact did the book "Sybil" have on Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly Multiple Personality Disorder)?
Bates, S. (2011). I Contain Multitudes. Wilson Quarterly, 35(4), 14.
The 16 false memories of Sybil. (1998). Skeptic, 6(4), 11.
Caplan, P. J. (2012). From Sixteen Personalities to One. Women’s Review of Books, 29(2), 18-19.
Thompson, G. (2011). Multiplicity and Self-Identity: Trauma and Integration in Shirley Mason’s Art. Art Therapy: Journal of the American Art Therapy Association, 28(1), 39-42.
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I had to watch this movie for a high school class and was traumatized by it. I never heard about the fact it was likely made up. Thank you for the enlightenment, I’m really happy to have this information.
i had to watch it in high school as well-so freaking weird that this is a go-to movie in health class.
why was it traumatizing? just curious.
I had heard it was exaggerated or false due to the psychiatrist who bc studied "Sybil". That was the reason as an adult I read the book and watched Sally Field's movie. I knew of too many cases of abused children to wholly believe, because wouldn't all of us abused kids have become like her?
@@uggggggghhhhh I saw it on TV in 1977, when I was 11. Watching Sally Field play Sybil was bad enough. Sally was a former child star who played Gidget and the Flying Nun before that. 👇
The most risqué she had gotten was playing a teen runaway who comes home in 1971, in a made for TV movie called I Might See You Next Spring.
So America's Sweetheart was playing this absolute nutcase. That's how it looked to the rest of us.
Sally Field spent two nights turning into 16 different people. Peggy Lou and Nancy wanted to fight people. Marcia wanted to die. Vicky and Vanessa were sophisticated. Ruthie was an 18 month old toddler. Plus 2 boys, a grandmother type, and the rest. And it was done with the creepiest, most traumatic music possible. In one scene, she switched into one of these altars while teaching kids and ended up in a water fountain.
As if that wasn't enough, the reason given was even more horrible. Dr. Wilber and Sybil claimed that Hattie (Sybil's mother) was an abusive schizophrenic. They claimed that Sybils family were Fundamentalist fanatics who covered for Hattie. That Hattie locked Sybil in a barn loft, and crapped on the doorsteps of people she hated. They claimed Sybil was given a broken shoulder at age 3 then a burned hand, and a bead shoved up her nose.
Then there were the two most disgusting claims of all: they said that Hattie put Sybil on a kitchen table, tied her to a hanging light fixture, and gave her enemas. Then she would be tied to a piano while Hattie played long classical peices. If Sybil wet her pants, Hattie would beat her. Even worse, they also claimed that Hattie would tie Sybil to the same light fixture. Then Hattie would insert button hooks, knives, and other things in Sybil s vagina.
The book Sybil spelled all that out in 1974. And Dr. Wilbur, Flora Rheta Schreiber, and Shirley Mason were all equally involved in the fraud.
The 1977 mini series included almost all the above abuses, plus Hattie s alleged lesbianism. The only thing left out was Hattie crapping on door steps. Even the integration scene that was supposed to be happy was creepy, and set to creepy music.
Adults and children alike had reported nightmares after seeing it. And all for a fraud created to fuel Shirley Mason's narcissism and Dr. Wilber's greed.
In 1978 I got an A plus for using this as a science project. In 2012, I got an Aplus for writing about how the Sybil Case had been debunked as a fraud, in an Abnormal Psych class.
It certainly wasn't the right thing to be showing high school kids. More evidence that the current school system just gaslights kids. Sorry for the length but I hoped that helped you.
@@prettypennyschannel jeez... i regret asking but thank you.
I am astonished how neutral and objective you could portray all this, including the "positive possibility" of it all.
Exactly!
Why would you be biased????
kiwisen because human beings all have innate biases. All the things that make us up give those qualities to us. A doctor (should) do their best to be neutral, but more often than not you can’t prevent all of them from prevailing. Dr Grande is especially good at conveying objectivity, even when he is editorializing (which is usually marked by Offhanded remarks and deadpan jokes).
My mother was diagnosed with DID, but I wouldn’t describe it as having ‘multiple personalities’. Rather, she compartmentalised her life into different roles - the perfect mother, the perfect wife, the perfect daughter, the professional, without having one whole healthy identity. She would push herself, driven by a search for the approval that her parents never gave her, with the expectations of herself that her parents taught her, dissociating in order to do this, until it got to the point that her body couldn’t continue with it and she developed multiple chronic illnesses (diabetes was the first one, then it cascaded). She has been working for a long time with professional help to ‘become herself’, and is still learning to identify her own needs and not put everyone else’s before her own. She is a very intelligent woman and has a lot of insight into herself, and to break down the walls between ‘roles’ made her extremely vulnerable, which is terrifying for anyone, but I can see the process of integration working. As a daughter, I have at times had to be the mother, sister, friend, and it has been hard at times for all of us. She has set an example for those around her that no one can live up to, which caused some people to resent her, but she’s learning it’s okay not to be perfect.
I find it really hard to get my head around depictions of DID such as in The United States of Tara and some youtubers.
Could I ask where you live? That sounds so much more plausible that the example of Sybill but undoubtedly a painful and difficult condition to negotiate. Certainly less Hollywood and it helps make more sense of its manifestation. I hope your mother makes a good recovery and it wonderful she has your support.
Jemima C Yeah, I also have DID and get frustrated with the sensationalism of this disorder by those online and by Hollywood. No one would know I have DID except close family members or close friends if I told them. It’s a covert disorder built to help me stay under the radar, not overt displays or switches that are obvious to others. It’s stigmatized enough without the people who have DID adding to the stigma by filming switches like we’re circus animals on display. Why do this except to generate attention and advertising.
I didn't grow up knowing your mum as you do, but what you write really applies I think to any dedicated, obsessional person who seek to live up to parent's expectations. It applies to me, yes, i have had illnesses from this too but try to keep going. I joke about the compartmentalisation. It sounds more like a variation of normal personality traits.
Are you sure she wasn't misdiagnosed?
@@mrsgif8616 What Jemima C describes is a fairly typical example of DID. A description of the experience I've heard from someone I know with the disorder is "It's like shifting gears in your car, it's still the same car, but it's functioning differently and has different limitations - it just feels different." So, what you've got is someone with ego-alien (i.e. does not feel like it is from the 'self') disassociative state that are associated with emotional triggers - causing distress. No body claims there is actually multiple 'personalities,' only altered or disassociative states.
There is not usually full amnesia between states. Usually any difference in memory is cognitive distortions between the disassociative states, i.e. slight difference in details, difference in interpretation, difference in emotions about memory - with these differences roughly remaining static in each state (a discrete pattern.) There is sometimes some effort taken to suppress any behavioral differences or perceived behavioral differences.
'Overt' cases are very rare and may (or may not...) be associated with an outside prompt (perhaps from the therapist, or by internet encouragement, but perhaps also an abuser - convicted pedophile and murderer Marc Dutreaux was reported by survivors as attempting to provoke overt DID in them by associating certain names with certain things he was doing to them, whether or not any success was had by him is unknown to me.) But it seems like suggestion and the right personality traits could very well make someone who feels ego-alien altered states to really create something very dramatic - my opinion being that these dramatic displays are probably usually iatrogenic and should cause some skepticism, but such is far from the norm for the disorder.
Still, anything like what's in Hollywood would be and is extremely severe and extremely rare - most of the peer-reviewed literature has nothing to do with the 'Hollywood kind.'
My mother had a disorder undiagnosed but she would revert back to being a very small child. Her voice and mannerisms changed as well. These episodes would last a day or two. When she came out of it she had no memory of it. I witnessed at least 5 of these over a span of 4 years. There were more after I turned 18 and left home. It was frightening to see your mother in that state. Much later I was given information that she was sexually abused by her father as a child. I believe this is a true disorder. I've witnessed it first hand unfortunately. She passed away at the age of 47.
So sorry to hear your mother suffered so much. I know someone - more a friend of a friend - who had an alter about age 4 that she regressed to and stayed there for years. Our mutual friend interacted with her on this time, and she very much was 4 years old - couldn’t take care of herself, has a very childlike voice, a very reduced vocabulary, the attention span of a child, etc.
I believe that this disorder is real. I also believe that some folks try to fake it as well. That’s another disorder (Factitious Disorder, formerly known as Munchausen’s). But my personal experiences with people who actually do have (are diagnosed with) this disorder tell me that it’s real, and causes a great deal of suffering. I’ve seen people switch in front of my eyes, and I have experienced the effects of them losing time, and not remembering what they did for a period of time, or not remembering they had commitments to fulfill.
Dissociation is a real thing, and I’ve experienced it myself. Never so strongly as described here, nor as I have seen others experience. But I do know from the inside how it feels to just … not be able to function as an adult. For me, I was always what is known as “co-conscious”, even at my worst. I didn’t lose time, but I did have the sense of not inhabiting my body. It is actually quite frightening. I mostly haven’t had that happen in quite a while (years), with one exception in the last year or so under some extreme stress. It’s a coping mechanism, a way for the mind to say “that’s it, I’ve had enough, and I can’t cope anymore.”
And yes, it’s very painful when someone refuses to believe that it’s real. I had someone accuse me of doing it “to get attention” once. And I didn’t have the language skills at the moment to even respond, since I’d ended up in my preverbal self. Very hurtful. Very frustrating. I wish people could understand that must because they don’t understand something, or they’ve never experienced it themselves, doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
@@DawnDavidson Thank you for sharing your experience with this disorder. In many ways those that really have it are very resourceful people that are just try to protect themselves.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that, and your mother too💔
It’s wild to me that some people still think it’s a fake disorder. I understand that people have faked having it, but discounting the experiences and observations of thousands of people by assuming ALL of them are either faking or misdiagnosed is insane.
I remember reading the book as a young teenager. I was horrified by the whole story, sad, upset,disgusted ...I was traumatized! I never knew that this story was fabricated until watching your video today. I do not think Wilbur was a hero, Shirley Mason was a victim ....what a horrible situation!!
Me too! I was shocked at the story the cruelty of her mother, the indifference of her father. I'm still on the fence about whether Dr Wilbur was pushing a diagnosis on Mason or if it was at least in part true. In letters that Shirley Mason had written to a friend she admits that she had MPD people can be manipulated by doctors. it's crazy. Others claimed it was all an elaborate scheme made by Dr Wilbur to gain fame. I don't think we will ever know the complete truth. If you are interested I did find that if you google Shirley Mason art you will find a lot of her paintings are online.
I had a good friend in HS who gravitated towards that dark stuff. He read that book in HS, along with Communion and some others, right out of the school library, I think. Idk why he liked that stuff then. Maybe bc he was troubled as a kid. His baby brother died tragically when he was a boy. I felt so bad for him. He was a good, decent kid.
I saw the movie (2 parts?) with Sally Field as a kid first time it aired. I felt the same as you. I learned later there was a lot of doubt about the whole story, that it seemed likely it was fabricated. The movie and later the book had such an impact that I felt like I had to rewire my brain afterwards. On a side note, I feel sorry for Sally Field because she was absolutely incredible in that movie.
@@Marnee4191 This scandal is all new to me. I wonder what Ms. Field would say about this.
the mom's harshness and joyless, dense, Tense personality..YIKES!
Another unexpected pleasure 🎥 Dr. Wilbur’s methodology is problematic to say the least. Her conduct was extremely unethical. Ms. Mason seems to have been a vulnerable person. Wilbur seemed to have been more interested in being an exploitative handler than a mental health professional.
This video was so interesting. I wonder if D.I.D. just manifested into itself after Sybil? and the fact that it was a money maker. lol. I hope Dr Grande will do a part 2. I would love to here his beliefs about D.I.D.from his experience.
@@themystic6851 I agree! This is a fascinating subject and I think it would make a really good series.
@UCpwk0SWwgJeHDS5lPx5dX5g Wilbur's approach was very unorthodox and sadly, in a number of instances, that's still true today. There are huge gaps in trauma treatment and this is part of the reason Ketamine, micro-doses of MDMA and ayahuasca are growing trends. Some swear by them while others don't find these treatments helpful at all. I'd be interested to hear Dr. Grande's take on the use of psychedelics in the treatment of psychological disorders.
@@themystic6851 There were much earlier cases clear back in the 1800's.
We must also remember the Dr. treated her for free when she couldn't pay. I do suppose the book was in some part done to re coup some of her lost earnings. No one wants to clock 10-20 hours a week without pay. I think the Dr. became way too involved.
The film traumatised me because I had a really terrible childhood with two narcissistic parents , father who was grandiose and mother who was a covert narcissist , I have large amounts of voids in my life which I understand could be me dissociating myself from me . I have a codependency for which I received excellent counselling and are aware of my personality etc when I saw the film it traumatised me and I thought maybe I had a multiple personality disorder because of the Voids and my tendency to become childlike ( in a safe environment ) however I don’t feel I do have this tho I tried to convince myself that I could have and I could have treatment . Thank you for showing me that the ‘ evidence ‘ in the film was not based on fact. Xxx
morriganwitch, I'm sorry to hear that you suffered such a terrible childhood. Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a disorder that occurs in people who experience long-term early childhood trauma, usually beginning before the age of four. There are different types of dissociative disorders apart from DID. It sounds like you do have some dissociation which is not uncommon in those with abusive childhoods. The story of Sybil, whether partly true or not, is a story that was magnified on screen to draw viewers. I'm sorry that this further traumatized you. I think you should look for a therapist that is trauma-informed. They can help you without
pushing you into a diagnosis that you don't have. Good luck!
I too was terrified after watching this movie. My 6th grade English teacher played it for the class, it was such a long movie the goddamned thing lasted all week. I was probably 11 years old. I did find out many years later how much fiction vs truth was actually in the movie. I can close my eyes and picture Sally Field and hear her creepy (acting) child-like voice right now if I wanted to. 🤔😕
@@maryhorton7876 Mary OMG what teacher would show this to children 😲..I can imagine all these kids going home and looking at their parents sideways...smh
It might a defense mechanism as explained by Freud. Its called age regression. I do that too after suffering from the trauma created due to my OCD. I had suffered from it for 2 years and was extremely traumatised. I behave like a child to avoid the fact that 2 years have passed and im an adult now. (I was 18 when ocd took over) and im 22 now still recovering. I believe age regression is very real and it can be very bad with multiple personality disorder. Though i dont have multiple personality disorder myself. I can understand why the brain does it. It probably just does not want to accept responsibilities of an adult.
I was diagnosed with MPD (DID now, of course) in the 1980s, after some time as a child in a hospital for mental health assessment. I ended living in the hospital where I had several tests done.
The back story is, I was in state care after I was removed from my birth mother for abuse and neglect. I was still in a long term - foster placement when I was put in that hospital. I do not have full recollection of my childhood. I remember bits and pieces. I have been through a lot of traumas in my life, even as an adult.
As an adult I was diagnose with PTSD and BPD. Those two disorders make perfect sense to me, but the DID I cannot deny that I do not have one set personality. So, I cannot say DID does not exist. At the same time, I also study psychology now and know also from decades of therapy and through my own personal research, that some therapists do confuse DID as other disorders or do not believe in DID. I do understand people who don't believe in DID, I always say I really do not and will not try and convince anyone I have DID. It is not fun. I know I do not fake anything; Except I try and act like a normal human being and try and be as functional as possible. That is the only act I do; I will be 100 % Honest I act like a normal human being while I am in public, or anything is possible. I have done all the therapy there is out there. I have had MIR, CT scan been on that many medications and much more during my lifetime. I'm at a point I self - care now, although I do have all the resources possible to get help if I need it.
I was adopted for 10 years. Same people who long - term fostered me. They did read the book Sybil; I do have a copy myself. When my adoptive parents first read Sybil, it affected them, they were visibly upset, I do remember this moment. I asked them what happened, my adoptive mother said, this girl in this book reminds me of you. I did not know the book or who Sybil was. I never did read the book until I was an adult. \
I'm in my mid-forties now. I used to have 25 known alters, I only have 5 that I'm co - conscious with. I'm sure most of my alters have intergraded now. I have raised a family. My offspring can tell anyone they have seen an alter come out before. Those who do not believe in DID, well I wish it were not a real thing, if it were not, I would like to know what really happens with me then? I have been tested multiple times; I do not have schizophrenia that has been ruled out a few times. With only 1 % of the world's population with DID, it still is a rare disorder.
I also want to point out, it is not exactly like Sybil, and it is nothing like the movie split. I do not dress differently and call myself by different names in public, I still use my birth name. I have never known who my true self is, my name is Susan I know, that it is on my birth certificate, I have never had a real one set identity. The term multiple personalities, well in my opinion it's more like fragments of your personality that had not formed as one set whole personality. I have not found a cure for DID or BPD, it's the only unbelievable part of sybils story, is she was cured, nope sorry DID does not work that way not after 11 years than Bam in a few weeks she is cured because they decided she had to be. It's been over 40 years for me, if there was a cure. I would have found it, so would the whole psyche teams who have worked with me over the years, we would have cured me. So, there is no cure. Sybil either still had it or never did.
Sally fields did some awesome acting in Sybil though. It was brilliant, just saying.
I struggle with Bi polar both and ptsd
My friend was dissociative she experienced things no child should see. I got to understand her more as she was dying of cancer I sat hours with her. Just talking and making her be able to show love, something she struggled with so. Bad. I told her I love you everyday. She would say I'm not a sappy type. Then in the last month with her she could finally say the words. I love you to. It made me so happy I wanted her to know she was loved by us me my family.. She bonded with my autistic son well and strongly. My daughter not so much.
Can you please outline your position on psychoanalytic theory and whether 'repressed memories' really exist and if so, in what way? Thank you
I actually had things I forgot until my 16th birthday. Something happened and I remembered a lot of stuff I am still remembering things. 40 years later. They say when it's safe to remember you will. But also when your triggered you'll react like it's now.
I have the same wonder.
Repressed memories are totally real and valid. It's how the memory is organized and remembered. I have a lot of repressed memories recovered while starting my treatment and I can say for sure that while it's possible to completely forget. The memory has always been there. It's hard to delve in to a memory for specifics and it shouldn't be. What psych professionals usually look for are the bits that come back because a traumatic memory is not processed as a normal memory. They do exist. I suggest reading The Body keeps the score by Bessel Van der kolk. It thoroughly explains how traumatic and repressed memory works, it helped me understand some of the body memories that I have.
Yes the difference between the common line in current psychology as described by Zachariah which I believe is that it is unlikely that suppression of memory takes place and in fact false memories are very common. And the lay view which I believe is predominantly in opposition to this and I have to admit makes intuitive sense to non professionals such as myself if only for two reasons. Firstly we are all familiar with forgetting things or difference in recollection. I only have to consider conversations my sister and I have had as adults about our upbringing; we were raised together and yet have such different perceptions about our childhoods. When we compared notes it was incredible how different our recall of many past events were. Things one of us would remember and the other did not. Some of these events triggered a memory in the other, some did not even when supported by other evidence so they must have taken place. And this leads me to ask what were these recalled memories? False? Most of them were very mundane and not in the least traumatic but what we believed were simply forgotten and then reminded and recalled. My second example of the accepted view is that of compartmentalisation. I had come to understand that this was a common coping mechanism particularly in children experiencing long term abuse. Again this makes logical sense and must involve the suppression of memory to some degree. It's not difficult to find anecdotal accounts of this in the population. While I have not experienced any form of abuse and trauma, (so far as I am aware!) In my upbringing and I have no psychological problems to suggest this I have held this belief not only through reading and the media but predominantly having come across many individuals who feel they have experienced this and give a very credible account. However I waver on the subject because false mories undoubtedly exist
I appreciate it is always wise to be wary of what makes sense intuitively but even the most rigorous of research can be prey to cognitive errors and lead to false conclusions and the subject of this kind of memory is not yet open to scrutiny with neuropsychological research methods which in the future may prove to be more conclusive. In the meantime it seems to me there are many conflicting views on traumatic memories even within the field of professional psychology.
@Miss Mia Culpa Thank you for sharing
I remember seeing the TV miniseries “Sybil” starring Sally Field when it first aired. I was haunted by that story and never want to see it again. Horrifying. This role proved that Sally Field is a great actress and capable of much more than playing Gidget or The Flying Nun.
Interesting analysis. I was a career paramedic for the Los Angeles Fire Dept, 1973-2014.
I recall a case that we encountered at a West Los Angeles hospital. We had transported another patient there. About 1976, they had a female patient that was thought to have multiple personalities. We remained there for hours, rather than go to back to the station and sleep. She had several personalities present. Different personalities, genders, ages, voices, and some were aware of other personalities and some were not. I spoke with her for a long time before her therapist arrived. Her therapist, I don't recall his credentials, spent a lot of time trying induce a personality that he knew would be cooperative so the patient could be transferred. Eventually he was successful. I had taken notes on the personalities, lost many years ago. In 34 years in EMS, I have seen many people with mental issues or drug issues. This was a particularly unique experience. I believe it was real but extremely rare.
@Gary Inman Thanks for writing. Very interesting.
Every time i read about DID ,.I learn something knew. Especially the part where an alter can speak a foreign language that the main host never learned before.A a Psychology student, i am fascinated. I feel bad for anyone who is going through it.
I spent 20 years in therapy dealing with what my doctors and therapists deemed, "catastrophic childhood abuse". I have had a sodium amytol interview in a psychiatric hospital to help me prevent suicide. One of my doctors has written a book and I am one of 20 case studies. He was a retired professor and took on my case. In my estimation, the condition is not an illness but rather an alternative to insanity when the mind is completely overwhelmed with traumatic situations and has no place to go, especially when you are a defenseless child...
When I was about 16-17 I had the sodium amytol twice..( back in 1962 or so) .the few people I told about it said I was lying.....and that I had sodium pentothol.....even after showing them the description in the dictionary, and that it was used as 'The Truth Serum'...even with that, I was able to suppress some answers from the Psychiatrist...
Thank you! I read one of the books exposing the truth of the case a couple years ago, it was horrifying. So sad for poor Mason. According to the book I read, it left her seriously worse off than when she began "treatment".
I believe this, and it hurts my heart for her. I wish things had been different. She deserved better. :(
Yeah. The movie had a happy ending, with Sybil teaching art, and Dr. Wilbur says "She tells me she is happy." I guess it was Dr. Wilbur who was happy with all the money she made.
I read that book too! Wilbur was a nutcase
I worked with a woman who claimed to have this disorder. It seemed to me that she used her alleged episodes to abdicate responsibility for her actions. Her actions were very calculated and deceitful, were goal-oriented, and consistent over a period of months
I asked my own psychiatrist about her behavior, and she advised me to get away from that woman ASAP, and i soon did, (I believe that she was a dark triad narc). The psychiatrist told me that she had evaluated quite a number of patients who supposedly had DID, and out of all of them, she believed that only one of them might have been authentic.
Letecia Stauch who murdered her 11 year old step son Gannon claimed to have this disorder and that her alter Maria killed him.
It would be really interesting to see a video describing the job aspects of the different professions and the differences between them. (Psychiatrist , psychologist, counsellor, therapist etc) I feel like a lot of people use these terms either inaccurately or interchangeably
This reminds me of the book The minds of Billy Milligan, which is a must read for anyone who’s interested in this topic. It was a mind-blowing, unbelievable story. He had 24 personalities and one of them could do really good artwork. Which I found particularly interesting. I don’t think he was able to merge all of his personalities at once, if I remember correctly.
About this case, I think it’s fairly obvious that she was manipulated and deceived. The psychiatrist’s behavior seems really unprofessional.
Thanks for another great video, Dr. Grande.
I just immediately posted this request, before I read the comments. One personality could lock pick. There is an updated interview with him. I believe you are correct that his merge was not full.
I also read the Minds of Billy Milligan. It was pretty good
there's a doc on Netflix, it's really trippy to know he could have actually killed people by another personality or if he was faking... it mind*** you up until the end. He took his secrets to the grave
@@starfirechik He confessed the murders to his niece on his deathbed. This doc made me (even) more skeptical of MPD. It often seems like a collaboration between therapist and patient, with both unconsciously manipulating the other.
He was faking it to avoid prison just like Bianchi. There is a very interesting documentary about Bianchis attempt to fake it on youtube, made by pbs i think.
It seems to me that the revelation that "Sybil" was mainly or all fiction led to a backlash against repressed memories in general. I didn't remember I'd been sexually abused at a young age until I was middle aged and whenever I mention this to counsellors or others I feel I have to add that I remembered it myself and not in counselling, which I wasn't even having at that time. Later, one shrink told me I couldn't possibly remember anything that happened when I was so young: I didn't see him again. People are usually surprised or shocked when I say that remembering this was a huge relief, because it explained behaviour in my life which I hadn't been able to understand and also the weird behaviour towards me of the family member involved.
I’m glad it was a positive experience for you. When I “remembered” the face I had repressed until my mid 30s, it put me in a 3 day flashback period, and then another week in rehab. This stuff is nothing to mess with or sensationalize, which is what Shirley’s doctor “surely” did. Angering.
@@mydailyangel Did she sensationalize it tho? Bringing such a deeply traumatizing experience to the public eye was necessary and the implications alone are dramatic. The book writer perhaps did paint the scenes with vivid and striking details meant to capture attention but that is what good writers do.
@@CindyTemple She did it for gain, not awareness.
Yikes. She wasn't a victim of her mother. She was a victim of her psychiatrist.
maybe both - not entirely made up.
And her mother as well
@@aprilsilvers381 yes, her mother was made out to be horribly abusive and unstable which probably caused her to be rejected in her community
@@karenv5103 She was unstable. Neighbors would find her wandering in the middle of the night, looking in their windows. And that's from statements from said neighbors, not the Sybil book. Maybe she wasn't a horrible person, but she was unstable and unwell. That's not her fault, it's not a moral failing, but that alone could have been traumatizing for her daughter. And this is how people in the town figured out so quickly who "Sybil" was. Her mother was already well known in the town for being very unwell.
Just because the abuse story wasn't real doesn't mean her mother wasn't ill or that her daughter wasn't effected by that.
Oooh. Harsh.
In this day and age, your even-handed presentation of information is so welcome. I keep watching your vids to see the two (or more) sides to these issues.
DID is absolutely real. I think its difficult for most people to comprehend unless they either have DID themselves or know someone who does. The dsm is right to include memory problems in day to day life, that does happen, so its nice to see that we are advancing in the right direction.
I can certainly comprehand it. I can also comprehend situations where people knowingly lie and fool professionals and people in their lives. Like munchausen by proxy. So I don't know. I certainly believe it could be real.
I see Mason as a victim, first in her childhood then by her therapist. And I can understand why she later said that none of the stories were true. Perhaps for that personality the events never occurred...........I was diagnosed in 1989 and would say that "We are not multiple." I discovered that even tho the memories always felt like they were not mine, a criminal investigation later proved that they were. 30 years later and I still dissociate occasionally, as it is a knee jerk reaction and times are stressful lately. But I handle life pretty well, earned a degree, held down a job, married a professor and am now retired. Good analysis Thank you.
As a child in the 70’s this movie terrified me particularly the mother.
I seem to remember forced enemas, murdered kittens & her tripping Sybil & saying “Have a nice trip see you next Fall”
Billy Milligan was an inpatient at the Athens Mental Health Center when I was getting my nursing degree at Ohio University.He was my case study.....that is all I an going to say about that.Being in his space is definitely memorable.
My mom literally had 3 personalities. Her ages were 3, 7 and 11. She talked in those voices. Without a doubt she had dissociative disorder. I was 11. My mom had struggled with alcoholism too as well as bipolar.
As far as I know my mom only saw a psychiatrist. This was in the mid 80s.
Wow! And I thought I’d be the only one with a recent comment on this 2yr. old video….it must’ve been in a lot of viewers “Recommends” 😉
Just wanted to say to you Dr., that I appreciated watching this vid & Thank you for posting this. As a child & teen growing up living with someone, (my “mother”) whom had MANY different “faces”, I always referred to her as “Sybil”. And although I’d never read the book, I had seen the movie as a young kid & knew the meaning of my reference. The only thing I’ll say here is that, NEVER was there a dull moment bc you never knew who you’d be waking up to. Crazy stuff. Anyway, thanks for shining a light on the subject. And congrats on your recent achievement here in YT land!! 🏆🎊🍾🥂🥳🎉👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🤝👍🏼✌🏼😸
Dr Grande we have a case in Australia that really came to light in the past couple of years of a lady named Jeni Haynes who is said to have over 2,000 personalities, an apparent strong psychologist army crated to protect her from the horrific abuse she endured as a child . There is a detailed interview about her on 60 Minutes Australia , here on CZcams. Could you please consider giving your opinion on her case ? I am intrigued to hear your thoughts 💜
I read this book several times way back when and can still remember the horror I felt when the book described the abuse the mother put her through. Now I wonder if any of that was true. 😕
I am feeling relief at the real possibility that all of the terrible treatment never happened. I read this as a teenager and remember crying over how terrible Sybil's life was.
Me, too. It was so detailed. The really creepy thing is if you're an avid reader, you form pictures on your head as you read. I can see pull up those pictures based on what I was reading. That book gave me chills.
That piano part 😳 I’ll never forget
@@jpk5148 The Mom played Dvorak's "New World Symphony 1st Movement" in the original move. I'm a pianist and, the times I play that piece sometimes, I still get the heebie Jeebies!
@@jpk5148 It definitely struck home with me. I am 75. I still clearly remember the frequently administered hot, soapy enemas my mother gave me from a very early age.
I remember reading it in my early teens, it was mind blowing then ... and sally field in the movie was great
Back in the '94 or' 95 when I was around 19yrs a friend of mine was diagnosed with MPD in a mental health hospital here in Helsinki. The only time I saw a clear change was once after a night out (we used to live together, yet had our own apartments for the most part). We got into a fight (non physical, always) and I yelled at him to leave, and told him this was it; that we were done living together. He left, but came back about half an hour later. And there was nothing about him that was familiar. His stature, the way he talked and walked, everything was different. And he told me he had come up from the sea where Kevin had now gone, and to put my clothes on because we're going to see Kevin off now (to the sea). Mind you, it was winter, and freezing cold outside. Yet his commanding tone and the WTF factor made me go to the shoreline with him. We stood there, and just stared/paid our respects, and he then asked if I realized that I had just lost my bestfriend, who also loved me. And that he didn't even know if he liked me. Then we started walking back home, and this whole situation kind of dissolved, as if nothing had happened. The next day when I brought it up, he looked kind of confused and said, dismissevely, "yeah, that was just one of my little deaths".... About a year later
he was diagnosed. The doctor at the hospital even wanted to talk with me which I thought was pretty odd. I don't remember if I told him about this or not, I only remember that I thought his questions were pretty generic. And that I asked why they keep him so sedated there.
Nowadays he lives in another country, a tropical paradise judging from FB photos, and is sober and seems to be thriving. Idk if he had/
has MPD/DID.
Thank you for yet another awesome upload, Dr. Grande. This has become a morning routine for me. Coffee and Dr. Grande... (who is NOT diagnosing...)
Remember Truddi Chase? She was the “1980’s Sybil”
She was on Oprah & was portrayed in a movie by Shelly Long.
Compelling forensic analysis. I especially appreciate your demand for Professional Ethics, and a coherent explanation of the harm that such divergence can visit upon not only the exploited patient, to whom is directly owed an unswerving duty of care (and no harm), but also to society writ large. We need to be able to trust those who undertake such care. Failure by parents is often what generates the need for a competent & ethical Mental Health Profession in the first place. Therefore, ...
Thanks, Doctor!
It is not surprising that cases of Multiple Personality Disorder spiked after "Sybil." After the novel and film "The Exorcist" came out, The Catholic Church was flooded with requests for exorcisms.
Thank you for this Dr Grande. I read the book in the 70’s and always wondered if it was a true story. Tragic.
That was a jaw dropping story, and extremely interesting hearing your thoughts on such a case!
It sounds very much like the therapist wanted; Breakthrough, Freud like fame for herself and used a vulnerable patient for many years for all her own gains. A terrible abuse of power!
Just catching up on some older Dr G videos. This one is pretty shocking - I saw the movie when I was a kid and it left a huge and frightening impact. I had no idea Dr. Wilbur was a fraud! I love how thorough the research is here and the passionate push back against these exploitive practices.
Hi. I just found this older video too. For some reason the movie never bothered me as I felt it was Hollywood movie making. Now I realized it was a lie haha. Love Dr G...he's so good. 😊
I remember watching the film when it came out. It is really iconic and opened my eyes and mind to the relationship between childhood experiences and mental health. Thank you.
Where can it be watched? I can't seem to find it.
@@renellelapointe8375 Search CZcams for SYBIL 1976 SALLY FIELD and you will see some options
@@cindyrhodes TY. I have been trying that but only shows half clips or not the whole film. I will keep looking.
Can you please talk more about depersonalization-derealization disorder? This disorder is insanely common relative to how little professionals know about it. I had to show my psychiatrist where to find it in the dsm and many counselors ive been to over the years had no idea about it. And this happens to almost everyone ive talked to with the disorder. It really needs a lot more attention and research! Its a horrific condition that can cause ridiculous levels of suffering.
barschben there is a video about on yt but i dont remember who made it, because didnt dare watch it:(
Good thst you bring this up sounds tough for the sufferer.
czcams.com/video/tB3UE-Ckn6k/video.html
I don't have the disorder, but I will experience episodes of depersonalization and/or derealization. It's been almost six months since it's happened. It is terrifying. I had to do my own research, and even though I could mention the names of what I was experiencing, my psych blew it off. I later figured out it would happen when my anxiety was extremely high. Ive have Generalized Anxiety Disorder for 12 years officially now, so it's not uncommon for me to be hyper aware all of the time. I think what happened was my anxiety would get out of control and the neurons in my brain were over firing to the point I suddenly felt like nothing was real. I have Panic Disorder as well, so I knew it wasn't a panic attack. I did finally explain this to my Dr.s and they agreed it was possible. Since we changed my treatment plan, it's very rare to happen anymore.
I am one of those black-box kids, just after Prozac when they "thought" you could give adult dosages to 8 year kids of SNRIs. They changed it to 25. So it is possible my brain pathways weren't able to develop correctly, though I have "treatment-resistant" disorders, which are probably because of the early medication.
But I certainly don't have the disorder, the most likely mild and short episodes I had (maybe 1-2 hours) were still terrifying. I would like to learn more about it, but I haven't found anyone who can speak on it either
I experience depersonalization-derealization, and anxiety. I know some people have them caused by trauma, and maybe that's the predominant thing, but I have literally always had anxiety, I don't know what it's like not to, even as a toddler I remember before I knew what anxiety was, I had it. But I also have had serious ear issues over the years, and I've read that ear problems can contribute to dizziness, anxiety, even causing people panic attacks and paranoia (Lars Mittank, a guy who had a blow to the ear then swore people were after him and ran off and disappeared, never to be found again even though he hadn't had any mental issues up to that point, I swear it was his ear!). So I feel like with me, and maybe some other people, the ears could be causing the feeling of not being one's self, and the world feeling unreal like when you get a head cold, and even anxiety. Therapy can work for things I've experienced that have hurt me, but it can't do anything for these 'mental health' issues that I truly, truly think are caused by something physical. I wish there was more research into it.
Since cptsd and DID have similarities - seems like psychiatry was still gathering information and needed published, but it wasn't popular idea, so she decided to write the book to get the idea out. Could also have combined other people into one character(s). It certainly wasn't an ideal situation for either, but it did get us to the next level. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing. I am a tax accountant and enjoy learning about new topics for stress relief and often the information helps me on the job (your NPD videos). I remember being quite disturbed by the content in the movie, Sybil, and I’m glad to learn that many of those facts were fabricated and to learn more about the supposed condition.
Love your professional ethics, I never knew any of this followup information about Dr. Wilbur and how she crossed the line with Ms. Mason, what a downer. It does seem people claiming to have DID are crawling out of the woodwork these days. Thanks for another interesting and informative evaluation!
The "crawling out of the woodwork", as you so rudely put it, is likely due to the movie "Split" and its severe impact on how DID is viewed. There were diagnosed cases before the book, so it's highly likely that the disorder is real (or as I believe has a spectrum on which only the most severe cases split into independent personalities, while the lest severe just act differently with different "roles" such as daughter/employee/spouse/etc.). People with this disorder would now want to give their own account of what they go through and not have a murderous holyeood monster as their overly known representation.
I agree that it is interesting to hear about Wilbour's (most likely) wrongdoings. It is interesting to have a look at how vulnerable and manipulateable people asking for help are and how someone can do wrong (Wilbour(most likely)) even without intention to harm.
@@kiram.3619 Thanks for the information, I guess. Not sure what "holyeood" means, couldn't find it in the dictionary.
@@polarbearsrus6980 Sorry, that should have been Hollywood
My husband just told me to tell you have nice pants... cracked me up. You just seem to bring me happiness on many levels. Keep it up. I love it. Myself and my Therapist actually even talk regarding you as if we were in a book club. You've definitely cemented a positive place into my life. A great addition.🤙
In the early 1980's Dr. Wilbur diagnosed the grandmother of a friend of mine with........multiple personalities! After a short time the family switched doctors because they "didn't like" Dr. Wilbur and didn't believe the diagnosis. This was in the Lexington Kentucky area. When Dr. Wilbur was called as an expert witness in some local court cases she wasn't convincing and her testimony was either thrown out or ignored. Her reputation in Lexington wasn't what I'd expect for a hometown celebrity.
I had a co worker with DID-i didn't even know until i saw him standing off to the side of the group during a break and asked him if he was okay. He said, "Oh, yeah, I just haven't been here for the last couple of hours." This obviously confused me and he explained he had DID and that one of his other identities had been in control. He told me that the others always respond to the primary's name so that other people are unaware of what is going on. He was on lithium (i saw him taking the medication at work several times before) and had severe physical and emotional abuse as a very young child. If I worked with any other identities, I was never aware of it-i liked him, he was a good guy.
I read the book. Twice. A long time ago. I had some doubts about its authenticity. It was just too "squared-away". In its conclusions. Thanks Dr. Grande.
This is interesting to me,
Growing up in a highly stressful abusive alcoholic family supported by being born on stimulants;
during my life and more specifically up into my 20’s (currently 59 yo) I experienced such rapid uncontrollable internal breathing almost hyperventilating with my mind racing at the same time it made me feel like what you’re explaining as did/mpd while during the formative years of my growth/personality development.
There were varied sounds/voices in my mind but often transitioning very quickly, up into my 20’s I was fighting with my thoughts, I am fairly sure that this had allot to do with the abuse that I experienced while growing up.
It started to stabilize the more I learned the breath control of meditation, now it has become easy to see how reckless destructive thoughts/memories could become disturbing if the root of my breath were to get/become allowed to remain uprooted, of course diet plays a big part in keeping my energy and breath rooted.
Thank you for your posts
They are very educational
Wow, what a fascinating story! My mom was a psychiatrist in the 1970s, and I remember her talking about a (male) colleague of hers who diagnosed almost all of his patients with MPD/DID. It's easy to see that DID is a dramatic condition that must appeal to doctors who have a romantic/theatrical sensibility. I can imagine Dr. Wilbur as one of very few women psychiatrists in the 1950s, struggling to find a way to make a mark on the world and getting sucked into this chronic fantasy that seemed to offer her success, recognition, and power. I wonder what was actually going on emotionally between those two women. Are any details knows about the dynamics of their relationship? What were they actually getting from each other? Was it sexual? Did Shirley Mason feel like she was earning love by abdicating her rational mind? Was *Wilbur* abused as a child? (Okay, this comment is long enough.)
Let me share some fallacies in your logic. First you described the patient coming to therapy stating she was a different name, and coming the next time saying she was Peggy. This is what started the diagnosis and was not due to any suggestion from Dr. Wilbur. Later work identifying alters May have been a result of leading the client but not the original visits where the client initiated identifying the first personalities.
Second, you accept as truth the letter saying this was all fabricated, but not the hours in therapy of the client sharing her experience.
As an intern on my way to becoming licensed as an LMFT therapist, I encountered a client in a mental health hospital where I was working and counseling her, and she expressed deep anguish, tears, shaking and full affect describing details of being sexually abused. The next day that same client with absolutely no affect announced what she said the day before wasn’t true and she made it up. It is still clear to me that the first day was the truth spoken and the second day simply protective denial, based on affect expressed. An alternate explanation for that letter written by the patient that Sybil was based on, is that it is common for abusers to insist the abused never reveal what happened and that no one will believe them. Add to this the fact that her story was about to go public, which would surely expose what happened and that alone would be plenty motivation to express denial. Neither of us were there so we can never know for sure, but I for one don’t buy your analysis of the facts. Later in my career, I have worked with correctly identified DID clients, and can vouch this is a real disorder. We as a profession have learned not to lead the client, and let the information come only from the client. This is not to say that there probably been misdiagnosed clients. One of the comments below about her mother may be a case in point.Heck, the first cases of Covid-19 were not diagnosed correctly. Thanks for letting me share.
I have DID and from the inside I can tell you it is the weirdest thing ever. I also keep doubting I have it until something fairly blatant happens that mitigates that denial for a time. That sort of denial, "I don't have DID," or "I don't have alters," seems to happen frequently with DID or OSDD-1a and 1b.
Since it's been suggested in the comments here and by the clinicians most opposed to DID's existence (such as Paul McHugh), no therapist broached the topic with me. I broached it with my therapist.
We don't always know what we don't know, and the impact of knowledge on practice can be profound. We went from island universes to a few dozen galaxies to over 100 billion galaxies in the space of around a century or so.
I'm sorry you have met with such difficulties from mental health 'professionals'. Unfortunately, based on my theoretical knowledge of DID (and OSDD although I know very little about that condition compared to DID), it's difficult to find competent therapists for DID and there's a great deal of stigma and misinformation about DID both amongst psychiatrists and psychologists let alone the general populace.
Whilst viewing videos on CZcams regarding PTSD - I have C-PTSD - I came across the channel by a British woman titled DissociaDID and was interested in her videos particularly the "Meet the Alters" ones she's made. The one involving 5 or 6 female alters was eye-opening and it helped reduce most of my remaining scepticism after seeing how not just seemingly unconscious body language but facial muscles completely changed between the female alters. No doubt those who will always remain cynical about DID will just say it's someone whose a good actor and has convinced themselves that they've got alters, whether protectors, trauma-holders, persecutors, "littles", or hosts of their 'system(s)'. Nevertheless whilst there are cases of people faking DID for attention and/or other reasons and unethical psychiatrists and psychologists who want to see DID where it doesn't exist, I do believe there's genuine cases of DID like yours, and DissociaDID's.
Have you seen the videos by the DissociaDID channel? Or the ones by an earlier, fairly ground-breaking channel (in terms of generating awareness about DID) by a British woman which is entitled "Multiplicity and Me" and she's also been featured in a few reputable Current Affairs programs such as Australia's 'Sunday Night' (if I am recalling the program's name correctly!). She's married and now has a baby and seems to manage her condition quite well. So does the American woman who created the channel "The Entropy System". She's also married.
Anyway, I wanted to mention those three channels by others with DID which seem genuine to me. There's unfortunately going to be cynics who believe DID isn't real. I used to be more sceptical but after watching videos by DissociaDID and then the other 2 channels mentioned above, I decided that these women weren't faking their conditions and I wanted to learn more about this very misunderstood condition. I have, in the past, found C-PTSD difficult to manage and whilst it's barely an issue these days - due to intensive work on my part and counselling from a reputable and caring psychologist - I wouldn't want to also have DID to try to deal with. The difficulties inherent to DID such as 'losing time' and having no recollection of how one ended up somewhere and having others call one by different names or refer to actions one doesn't recall, just to name a few common issues especially when DID isn't diagnosed, seem to me to be extremely traumatic by themselves let alone then trying to determine what's going on and finding problems from therapists who misdiagnose the individual often with conditions like BPD, schizophrenia and schizo-effective disorders, or even with "malingering". I hope you've been able to find a good therapist and have a decent support network including supportive loved ones and friends.
If you haven't yet checked out the channels I mentioned, I'd be interested in your views of these. In the comments section of videos of these three channels - especially that of DissociaDID - there's often some comments by some people with DID or OSDD. That and the list of the channels subscribed to also connect one to others with DID so you might find these interesting and possibly supportive, too. Best wishes, from Australia.
@@Adara007 Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I have been watching several DID-related channels including DissociaDID and Multiplicity and Me. Others include The Entropy System, Acrylic & Aether, and a channel run by DissociaDID's partner system that I forget the name of offhand. I've found them all helpful and shed light on multiple experiences I've had over my lifetime.
OSDD-1a and OSDD-1b are very similar to DID, except that I believe the first one has alters who are effectively different versions of a "core" person, but can still experience dissociative amnesia. OSDD-1b has alters similar to DID, but without the amnesia.
I'll try to get back to this when I have more time to focus on it, but thank you again.
@@femmedracula6857 I had thought you'd most likely seen these channels but wanted to mention them in case I was wrong. Thanks for summing up OSDD -1a and -1b. I need to learn more about those conditions. Reply more only if you have the time but if you can that would be great as I'm not well versed in OSDD and it would be helpful to learn a bit more from someone who knows these matters more thoroughly than via an article from a psychiatric journal. Best wishes, Kybele.
This was my experience too. My therapist refused to tell me she thought this was what I have. That led to nearly 3 years of walking around in circles. Then I lost 10 days, had an appointment in that time, and things sort of went from there.
Normally I'll lose a few minutes to an hour or two.
I always remembered the line from the movie that her mother said, "Have a nice trip, see you next fall" as she tripped her and Sybil fell down the stairs
Oh I know! The mother was horrifying
For me, it was the line....Hold your water Sybil. Hold it till the very last note! I cry every time.
@@christopherdavidson7757 me too 💔🥵
DID/MPD always struck me like Fibromyalgia: It isn't real.
There are symptoms, people don't feel well, but these aren't real causes. MPD is worse than Fibromyalgia though, at least getting diagnosed with Fibromyalgia is essentially "we don't know what's wrong but you experience pain."
I once witnessed a female friend seem to switch between personalities and or emotion and attitude, multiple times within 30 min or less as if it was at the flip of a switch. The majority personality (for lack of a better description) was slightly fake happy but somewhat maybe arrogant, smiling but sort of lacking emotion, during our conversation she was smiling, staring straight into my eyes, rocking her head and passing blame on anybody but herself for events that had happened it the last ten years. The minor Personality was highly emotional with real crying and tears, crying about the events and more in touch with reality and not accusing anybody. It was as if the personality I would normally see her in at this period in her life, was a mask personality trying to hide or block emotions, memories or the type of life she was currently living and possibly to appear less defeated, guilty, bothered by opinions of others about things she had done or her current social stature within society and probably to appear more mentally tough or less vulnerable, in a defense to the type of people she was associating with during this time. The change in this persons basic personality over 10-20 years was dramatic and did involve drugs, mostly opioid pain meds, but what was surprising to me was how dramatic the change in moral values from the person she once was, a quick description of the negative side was multiple false rape accusations as revenge for non-sex related events that were not to her liking and to her detriment but justified, pathological lying, kleptomania (not always to afford drugs) and seemingly lacking complete memory of events (sometimes to her benefit and sometimes not to her benefit) during some of these events she didn't appear to be under heavy influence of opiates.
More like psychosis or bipolar
Dr G; it’s so sad 😞 that the psychiatrist was unethical and was out there for pure greed. People like the psychiatrist gives a bad wrap to mental health clinicians whose intent is to help and do no harm to their clients. Once again, awesome analysis and narration of another interesting topic👍🏼
There are very few movies that have affected me like this one. I watched it when I was in my 20’s. It scared the heck out of me! I remember scenes from that movie to this day!
I went to Dr. Herbert Spiegel for hypnotherapy to help me overcome some emotional issues - back in the late 90s. I had no idea about his association with "Sybil." I brought her up during my first visit because of my interest in hynotherapy. That's when he told me that he had treated "Sybil." I was shocked. He didn't speak to me about details obviously - for professional reasons - just that he believed that her 16 different personalities were encouraged by Dr. Wilbur and not real. That much is already publicly known.
I only went to Dr. Spiegel twice. He was WAY to expensive for me. $200 a visit!
The abuse in this book was incredibly shocking, to say the least. Horrific. I just finished reading this book...
Excellent video Dr. Grande!!
Kudos to whoever gave you the suggestion to do Sybil. I read that book in the 70s when I was a teen. I thought it was fascinating. Even though they said it was a real story I wasn't completely sold. However, it was a great read though. If you read it just look at it as a Mockumentary.
I agree with you completely...I am a retired licensed Psychologist who specialized in the treatment of trauma in sdults. I never saw a case of MPD or DID that wasn't created by a therapist. It is unfortunate that the media and unethical practitioners have created this epidemic of misinformation and misdiagnosis.
Thanks for your complete description of this case.
There is also a very good article by Mikkel Borch-Jacobsen about Sybil in one of his books.
Great overview of DSM History in this video and the" Sybil "case. Siting Dr Wilbur being "Sybl's" Guardian," Drug Pusher, Friend, Mom, etc and basically only person who believed in all this drama is important too. What I find problematic was Dr Wilber naming, aging and giving gender to all of Sybil's alleged ego states, which the writer Flora Rheta Schreiber knew and questioned..
-Her persona's exhibiting behavior of different developmental age ONLY, not is what she used to identify persona"s. making "alters". Most problematic is the dynamic in Psychotherapy that still exits today that says " a true abuse survivor will always defend their abuser, recant and take back their stories of horror and abuse, as a defense". Because of the "resistance /defense theory" many people have been falsely accused, lives ruined and many are living a lie especeally during this recurrence of repressed /recovered memory in "Me Too" Movement Peace to you
I agree❤
I love watching this knowing Dr. Grande hit 900k subscribers. Keep up the good work Doc!
Another fascinating case was “The Poet” in Wichita, Ks in the 70’s. This story was making headlines during the time of BTK’s murders. She was being stalked and eventually police figured out it was her who was sending the letters and threats to herself. She was a middle-aged, married mother. She claimed she didn’t know she was doing these things and there was a book written about the case “Little Girl Fly Away”. Some ppl didn’t believe she had DID. She lived in Wichita her whole life and passed away last year.
This is a power-packed video, Dr. Grande! Thank you! I watched that movie a long time ago and could never watch it a second time. I felt so sorry for that young lady.
Fascinating analysis, really enjoyed your measured thinking. It made me wonder how much the "Sybil" fame via book and film provided a catalyst for the "satanic ritual abuse of children" moral panic that emerged in late 80's/early 90's with many therapists uncovering "repressed memories" of satanic abuse, as well as troubled people "recalling" it. Would love to hear your analysis of this strange time, I know you're too young to have been practising then but I'm sure you have some salient speculation to share.
I know, I read the book in 1976 when I was 11 years old, and I screamed! I was scared out of my wits. The mother did some really horrible and depraved things to her. Now it turns out not to be true. I am glad in a way, don’t know how her mother could inflict such inhumane torture on her own daughter. The whole thing was made up because of money, lots of it, what else?
who allowed you to read this at 11??
I read it was I was 10 years old and it stigmatized me. My mom was reading it, and when she wasn't looking I grabbed it, and read it, and when she found me reading it she did take it from me and said that it "was not a book for children to read," and I didn't finish it, but had read enough to make me physically ill.
You have heard about the severe sexual abuse I suffered at my mother’s hands when, she, as a homosexual woman, forced me, her heterosexual daughter, to go to bed with her while she fondled my private parts. to me, I can easily imagine a victim’s personality becoming altered as a consequence of being mistreated in such a way from the time I was a baby until my early teenage years when I put at end to this situation by firmly refusing to let it happen anymore. I might have mentioned that I took several psychology courses, educational psychology classes, and studied anthropology, and sociology. I wrote many papers and read many books on psychology and social sciences, both for my classes and on my own. I have always been fascinated by overtly watching individuals and small groups and studying how they acted and reacted to situations and one another. Even though I was a music education major, I could say I sort of had a second minor in social sciences. At any rate I try and classify undergoing serious trauma, like I endured, in three ways:
1) Thinking of a happy memory, while sort of “spacing out” while I was “touched”.
2) Repressing memories deeply embedding them in a safely hidden space so as not to experience the actual event. This is what I did for all the years I experienced the “torture”. I also repressed the feelings I had when these events occurred, except for one particular experience when she forced me to go to bed with her when I was very sick, and practically delirious with a high fever and some sort of flu bug. I believe I felt that this event was so depraved and heinous, that I could not repress it. That a mother could take a very sick child and force her to engage in a one-sided sexual encounter and completely ignore the fact that I needed aspirin to lower my fever and bed rest and not be virtually “raped” by a totally uncaring parent. My mother never cared if I was sick and needed medication for pain and fever. She liked to see me suffer and dependent on her for food and whatever she felt like giving me. Her sadistic side came out very clearly at these times.
3) I can quite clearly understand how a person could “temporarily” become someone else (but not with real “physical changes”), so as not having to face a horribly traumatic event.
I only literally remember clearly the one event when I was so sick. But all the years and all the events and memories can never be fully hidden, especially when I have observed in my classes and group therapy both men and women having unwanted and forced sexual encounters with a parent. Even in dealing with my moderately severe clinical depression and anxiety with decades of meds and therapy, the anger and emotions can never, it seems, be totally reconciled. PTSD is as much a part of me as breathing, eating, and sleeping are. Even as an empathic person who can feel the emotions of others, and even as I spend my retirement years in learning about everything I can and using my creativity to explore many different concepts, and writing a lot, because I enjoy it, as it serves as a release from the stress of life in dealing with political and medical strife and slowly changing myself to be, in these tough times, as helpful and friendly as I can be to everyone and as positive as I can be as a 75 year old who has decided “kick the butt” of overwhelming negativity as much as I can. My complaining is done privately in my head and sometimes just talking to my wonderful cat who doesn’t talk back and loves me, as I do her, unconditionally and loves to cuddle whenever she feels like it, which is very okay!
Funny, because "Schreiber" is German for "Writer"
My older brother had undiagnosed multiple personality disorder. He became a different person entirely in order to cope. He had at least one other name, which people at his job knew him by. More important, however, family members would see the change; hear him talking in strange voices; and he would become very confused at times. As adults, we all talked about it (after he passed away of a seizure), and agreed that he surely had different personalities. At one point, he got angry and hit my cousin, saying, "You're dealing with 'Charlie' now!" He would begin one action and, in the middle, become startled and stop doing it and run away.
You should review the life of Truddi Chase, who with her alters wrote the book, "When Rabbit Howls."
It's a tough read...she got through however.
Good suggestion. A very disturbing book.
Read that during my PhD program.
RIP Truddi.
Wow! The clarity of your mind and discourse, the fairness of your coverage and its breadth astound!
I have read the book and watched the films made from the book [1976 and 2007]. I recall the part where Sybil character approached Dr Wilbur to say all the personalities were made up. This was after she was getting near to remembering the traumas which caused the development of the different selves to survive each new trauma. I realise we can never know what was true or not now they are both dead. The important thing is to listen to individuals now who suffer in ways unrealised or denied by society in general which does not want to know how horrifically adults can treat their children. That should be the focus, rather than which label is given to us. Human empathy and support is what heals, not just psychological theories. I believe whatever happened, Dr Wilbur provided Shirley Mason the compassion she needed. I have read she was able to teach and continue her creative work herself, but she ended up on her own, unable to form relationship for mutual love and care. What do other people think?
I worked closely with folks who had severe mental illness in several settings, both inpatient and community based clients. I only ever met one person who convincingly displayed more than one identity.
Another here who would love to hear your thoughts on "When Rabbit Howls" by The Troops for Truddi Chase! An actual account of DID written by the sufferer herself. There's also an old Oprah appearance of hers, and one with her daughter not long after Truddi died a few years back. Used to be the only video uploaded to my channel until it eventually got deleted by whoever owns Oprah :p Really powerful appearance, Oprah actually starts to break down as memories of her own suffering as a child are triggered.
I've already "liked" though I've just started to listen, but I know it'll be good. Read the book and I'm curious. It's way over bedtime here in Sweden.
Me too
Dr. G is one of the few CZcamsrs whose videos I “like” even before I watch them.
Hi Dr Todd, you may not read this message, I found this an interesting analysis of the issue, and of the lived experience you have described in which a patient was essentially used/misused by a proffesional for their own benefit.
Any form of power has the potential for corruption and in this case it was the power differential between doctor and patient, which I think doctors, perhaps particularly psychiatrists should always attempt to remain aware of. My only criticism in this analysis is that some aspects of the analysis were limited to this case and not generalised. Like the then newly described diagnosis in dsm of either multiple personality disorder, or, as it was later described, dissociative identity disorder, after it was publicised there was an explosion of new cases, new diagnosis, of this kind.
I don't disagree but I would add that it is a more general phenomenon connected to diagnosing mental illness?
Many mental illnesses once diagnosed, described in the dsm have also increased in number almost exponentially.
My question is, does diagnosis sometimes create illness?
I'm not attempting to undermine the dsm or your profession but I do think it is a phenomenon that can't be simply ignored, or shouldn't be.
More generally, why are there so many more mentally ill people, is it that contemporary society is making them ill, or, is diagnosis contributing, or is it a combination of both?
I would be interested in your opinion.
Thanks
What is the best way to deal with or respond to patients who come in after a few years saying that they were faking their symptoms? How can a clinician differentiate if they are lying now, testing the clinician or they are infact telling the truth now perhaps wanting out of treatment.
Thank you for sharing the information, in some of your videos, especially this one, regarding unethical behavior in the mental health professions. I personally knew two unethical counselors. One, who was dating the patient even as therapy progressed. She was reported to the authorities, and lost her license to practice. The second turned out to be a middle school teacher, parading herself as a mental health therapist. She lost her teaching job and and her career permanently. One should always know exactly what the credentials are for any professional, regardless of profession. One shouldn't hire a plumber who is unlicensed, uninsured, and unbonded. Certainly require that information when treating the mind.
I went through something similar back in the late 1980s' The psychiatrist was a Freudian too. In this oil town in Oklahoma there was a strange mental health community. Two of the three psychiatrists in town along with one of the psychologists was diagnosing multiple personality disorder for individuals like myself who were just very depressed.
I had lost my mother and sister in an automobile accident and I was not coping well. All I wanted to do was talk about how much I missed them and how they had left such a deep void in my life.
Since I was having issues with memory problems it was decided that I must have multiple personality disorder.
Since I appeared to have amnesia I must be repressing memories of past abuse that occurred in my childhood. I was encouraged to try to remember heinous acts. I just sat there for a long time because I couldn't really remember any. So therefore, I thought after awhile that I really must be MPD.
The name of the doctor was Dr. Kyle Stewart out of Bartlesville Oklahoma. You can look up some articles of the abuses he heaped on some of his patients. He gave up his license finally in 2014. He tried similar tactics with me that he was caught doing with other patients, but I my memory was too fogged and my depression was to great to be able to process what he was trying to do. It's sad when all you wanted to do was process the deaths of people you loved and you end up believing bizarre stuff. He was so good that I ended up with hysterical blindness and hysterical deafness at times. It was all by hypnosis.
I work in education and have my M. Ed. is in Counseling and I’ve got an Ed. Specialist in School Counseling as well but am still in the classroom for most of my schedule and when I had to take over for a Psych instructor who had left suddenly due to a grim cancer diagnosis, I was amazed at how much material she had used that came from Sybil. I honestly think she taught about 3/4ths of the semester based on it. In fact, I had grown up in my district and even found a horde of old papers she saved from students in my year and I called some of them to inquire about it and they told me that literally all they remembered from the class was Sybil. (For ref, I graduated high school in 2001 and finished my Masters in 2011 and Specialist in 2013). My experience with it was starkly different, not only because of the several decades between but also because the course I had that had me studying the DSM the most was the semester before DSM-5 came out. Luckily, the prof for the class knew how much of a waste of time it would be to not address that a lot of what we were studying might appear to be very different in only about a month’s time, so he focused a majority of the class on watching several of the lectures and round tables that the APA has been conducting in the time leading up to publication. Of course, his caveat was that there really was no way to know what would differ until it was finally out, I remember his assertion that he would bet that this disorder would be excised or greatly diminished. Personally, I’m much more in his camp as I think most of those who were educated in the 90s/ oughts compared to those conducting the work around Sybil.
As for what all of this happened the way that it did in the first place, I would hang my hat on the highly suggestible nature of the client and the rigidity of psychoanalysis. I can only imagine what this would look like In my practice of counseling high school students because this power dynamic shows up A LOT with teenagers. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had students come in and tell me they were experiencing some strange phenomenon like shared hallucinations and almost always the roles are pretty clear; one student is convinced by the other that they’re psychologically damaged or just fragile while the other is of the mind that their friend needs desperate help, but that they’re the ones who should oversee it. And that’s not to say that the prior wasn’t in need of help nor that their friend was wrong in bringing them in or informing us about a situation. It’s just that when watching this video and hearing about the boundaries that were breached, my mind is drawn back to those situations I’ve seen in my student population.
How interesting! I remember seeing the movie that was made when I was a kid but I never read the book. I did not know the background to all of this, just assumed it was true. I love learning something new every day. Thank you Dr Grande.
It's sad neither of these women is alive to defend herself. DID comes from sexual and physical abuse in childhood. It's very real. Denying it just victimizes the survivor with DID over again. I am a survivor and I fear this content to be harmful. People might not believe someone who needs help.
Excellent analysis, Dr. Grande! You are so ethical. Thank you!
Fascinating video, Doctor Grande! A great sequel to this would be your take on the fake DID sufferers that have their own CZcams shows.
Watching your videos feels like I am in school again! Keep up the great work!
It’s very hard to understand and believe the diagnosis of DID until you actually know someone well who has it. Many mental health professionals miss it and think it’s just psychosis or even schizophrenia. Often DID patients say contradictory things. That is part of the disorder. The inner parts are very often in conflict with one another. The compartmentalization is done to survive horrible abuse. The parts are not in alignment and they hold the memories as to not overwhelm the person they exist within. Mason could’ve very well written said letter, then the next day given interviews about her personalities being real with all honesty. Another book, “Sybil in her own Words,” is a worthy read and has art from her personalities years after the book was written. If you’re a mental health professional the place to go is the ISSTD. This psychologist gives interesting talks but sometimes misses critical points. Shirley later in life actually helped take care of her former therapist after a stroke. I don’t think she thought the therapist exploited her at all. Also, sometimes people with DID think they’ve integrated and when they come under another stressful time, back come the parts to help them. They, the parts that is, are a very sophisticated survival strategy. Generally speaking these days, the treatment goal is smooth transitions, cooperation and incorporation of parts. So called integration or aka disappearance of parts is not an up to date way of thinking about this disorder.
Many years ago, I was employed driving medical patients to and from their appointments at various doctors' offices and hospitals. One afternoon, I had a pickup at a well known psychiatric hospital. A woman got in and, after identifying herself, said, "I have Multiple Personality Disorder. I have 17 different personalities."
Startled by her sudden and unexpected admission, I spontaneously opted for what I thought was a humorous approach, saying, "Well, you always have plenty of company!"
She forced a brief laugh, but was clearly troubled by her affliction. She said, "I don't like it. I just want to be normal." After a couple of minutes, we were out on the highway and she fell asleep; probably emotionally drained by her therapy session. Glancing at her in the back seat, asleep, I thought, I hope she doesn't wake up as someone else. But she didn't.
Half an hour later, we arrived in her old coastal town and she woke as we got there, and woke as herself, the troubled, middle-aged woman who had gotten in back
at the hospital. I dropped her off at a variety store and, although we had many repeat clients, I never saw her again.
There's no point to this anecdote, really. It was just the only time I've ever met anyone who claimed to have, and may well have had, "MPD." (Or "DID.")
There was a case in Australia recently involving a woman, Jennifer "Jeni" Haynes, who developed "2500" (yes: 2500) personalities after suffering terrible abuse at the hands of her father when she was very young. Some of her "alters" were allowed to testify at her father's trial, which resulted in a conviction.
Amazing story. Plenty of info on it if you Google her name.
Well I have it and am healing. I've come a long way. Nice to meet you!
I saw the Haynes case on 60 minutes Australia here on youtube-fascinating and horrific.
THANK YOU! Ha, when Dr. Grande first said, "Now I'm not going to get into... I felt sure he'd joke, "whether or not Sally Field's acting is over the top in this one." .. Beyond the book, her darn acting job also really sold this one- I saw the tv movie before I tried to read the book. I was like 12 and into Harlequin Romances. I think the appeal is also something in the American Gothic range on this one. Haunting of Hill House kind of universal dread-appeal. About light bulbs! // I love when my prior comment(s) contribute to current topics!
I was diagnosed with DID but unlike Sybil’s case. I have co-consciousness between my alters. I have a main apparently normal part (AMP) that functions to work and hide the rest of my seven alters. This type has little amnesic barriers. There are many ways dissociative disorders are expressed and experienced. It seems as through cases like Sybil’s with amnesia seem to make for better entertainment for singletons who are skeptical and simply enjoy shock value.
I was recently diagnosed this year 2024 with (DID) Dissociative Identity Disorder formally known as (MPD) Multiple Personality Disorder. A lot of people think this is a fake disorder but, I can tell you it's not. It's not easy living with this disorder especially when you have family witnessing my different personalities come out, out of nowhere. I'm in therapy now and trying to understand why this happened to me. I just wish I was normal but, I'm taking it day by day to learn how to love with having (DID).
Dr. Grande, Thank you for a clear, unbiased analysis of this condition. You always explaine to, the listener in a non-judgmental way. I have learned something new today.
For me, there's no question about if DID is "real".
When I listen to psychiatrists talk about DID it's intense.
I can't even quit rapid switching
Man we're All disociated parts of a whole. Every consciousness disociates from a greater whole. That's so cool. If that's true.. then I actually am sharing an Avatar with other people.
Just wondering out loud- another possibility might be that Mason was overwhelmed by the treatment and wanted out hence lied about her symptoms being fake. It appears that Mason at least did have some mental disorder given her childhood experiences with her Schizophrenic mother. Dr. Wilbur clearly crossed a lot of boundaries in the process & found herself at a point where she couldn’t turn back.
I really believed this story. I was a young teenager when the movie came out with Sally Fields and I was horrified to think a mother would do all those terrible things. I can’t believe it’s a scam . I’m 52 now and finding that people can trick all the time
I love your channel, and the fan base! I finally found a place civil passionate debate can be had! And a good majority commenting are as long winded as I am🤣
Youe always have interesting videos I love them. I remember being in high school and watching and reading the book I found it fascinating
I am glad to know her abuse at the hands of her mother never happened. I would be interested to hear your analysis of The Child called It.
Please talk about Transgenerational Trauma... please
Historical trauma. Some of my indigenous friends have been negatively affected by it
That's more like a phobia where the fears are pushed onto the new generation but thing to fear no longer actually exists. My mom was scared of spiders, so I became afraid of spiders. I grew up and realized it's kinda dumb to fear spiders. The fear was unjustified.
This is so interesting. I have an aunt who was diagnosed and misdiagnosed with nearly everything under the sun, but her family swears she has had alters, and occasionally she will still dissociate into ome of her other alters. It's much more subtle now, but once she tried to tell my mom she was a virgin while her son was in the next room.
I definitely believe in the disorder and have had some personal experience with people who have it, but I think it has to be misdiagnosed in a good amount of cases.
It's just so complex and the amount of trauma and the types of attachment styles are so specific.
My parents had this book and I read some of it when I was little. It really creeped me out. That cover still scares me!
I think some times the " therapists " are the problem they want to believe they are special because of their patients
They can be if they are not trained well. My first therapist tried to convince me to reconcile with one of my abusers. Thankfully I resisted and finally found another therapist. But it did cause some damage to me mentally. I was already suffering so badly because I was always questioning any choice I had to make. What was right? What was wrong? I have no doubt that had I followed her lead, I probably would have become a criminal. My abusers did not want or need my forgiveness. They wanted permission to continue with their abuse of me. It is insane to think a victim's work is to fix the very people that broke you. That is their job. I suffered so much unnecessary abuse because as a child I held onto the belief that I could convince my mother to stop the madness. Not understanding her part in our abuse was consensual.
Yeah no joke. We sometimes forget therapists aren‘t flawless gods of understanding of the mind. Rather they are people who learned a lot about psychology in their training bit they still aren‘t flawless people. But this kind of abuse really is a power imbalance exploited to the max. This is why ai think therapists shouldn‘t be allowed to take too much liberty with their methods and if they do have a special method, said method should be tested first to determine if it‘s safe. Mainly to avoid cases like this one where fals memories are prioritized over actual real evidence and in some cases memories that you didn‘t forget. For example, one disturbing thing is that in a court you could literally have ur case thrown out if you‘re called out with having a memory that wasn‘t repressed because at some point repressed memories were literally viewed as more legit than ones you always had. Wich is certainly ironic because it‘d mean more evidence of you being harmed by someone leads to you being dismissed. How messed up is that?