Intel NUC Roon Rock Part 3: how to use it
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2017
- In Roon ROCK - Roon Core for the Intel NUC part 1 and 2 I have showed you how to prepare an Intel NUC computer for use with the Roon ROCK music server software. Now we are ready to see how this little wonder can be used. Where should it be placed, how can it be connected to the stereo, how to make it a multi room system, and so on.
Reviews mentioned:
AudioQuest Jitterbug: • Audioquest Jitterbug
Alldac ADQ: • Review: Alldaq ADQ pro...
Sonore microRendu: • Review: Sonore microR...
SOtM sMS-200: • SOtM sMS 200 Network b...
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About Questions: • About questions - Věda a technologie
This is the best explanation of Roon and how it works as well as the main objective of setting up a NUC Roon Core. Thank you Hans
Great set of videos outlining the use of NUC’s and Roon in a digital workflow.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent Hans, thank you very much for this video!
Thanks!
I've finally sorted out my home network with decent Cat5e cabling and various Gigabit switches that connect my home office (over my garage) with my house. I have an Auralic Aries Mini in my office and a Sonore microrendu in my 'set 1' system in the house. I've just ordered an Intel NUC 7th Gen I7 on which I will install Roon Rock. I'm very excited. Thanks for all your help Hans. I love Roon!
It all arrived today - all working two hours later! Excellent!
Thanks Hans, great video
I confirm: I've used the promo code and now I'm a roon lifetime member. ;-)
Hans a great video as per usual, I am new to your channel but I am working my way through your video catalogue. I have a question. I have just set up my NUC with Rock now just trying to figure the best location in my chain to have the NUC. My music is on a NAS in my study which is connected to a Netgear Wifi AP.
In my music room next door to the study I have my Netgear Router connected to the AP in the study via Wifi and Ethernet cable to my Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra which is connected to my Gustard X16 DAC via USB
My question is Where do I put the NUC ? Does it go near the NAS in the Study connected via Ethernet to my AP or does it go in my music room and connect to my router via Ethernet.
But I am getting the feeling from your videos it doesn’t matter where it’s located just as long as it’s in the network somewhere Thank you
Hans, thank you once again for a very informative video! I understand you are not comfortable providing purchasing suggestions, however would you consider providing a "good, better, best" setup workflow with multiple suggested equipment offerings? I think the greatest benefit to your viewers would be the optimized setup configuration that would be outlined. I know you outlined in the part 3 video most if not all of these suggestions, but having an actual graphic optimized workflow chart accompanied by a list of suggested parts would be a huge help. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
I am who I am. This means that I am physically incapable to do 'bought' reviews and I consider absolute buying advice to be a lie. See czcams.com/video/EykkzxUstL4/video.html. Don't ask me to be unfaithful to myself. Rather invest some time in finding the equipment that fits your needs using the info I provide you. Last week a viewer more or less blamed me for advising the Mytek Brooklyn over the Chord Hugo. He had bought the Brooklyn to replace his Hugo but ended up liking the Hugo better. There is no absolute truth in listening. Sorry.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel I completely understand. I was more hoping to get some guidance outlining a workflow chart presented in a logical layout. The hardware would have been the cherry on top, but not required. The goal is to implement the best practices that yield the best audio output, for the budget I, and others can afford. In any case that you for what you do, and your response. Also, I just don't understand people today, how can someone listen to your reviews and then blame you for their own systems preferences? Much of this hobby is matching equipment that yields the desired output. Very few manufacturers create 100% neutral products that can automatically produce the desired output.
One can only make an outline if the starting point and the target are known. In my book I sum up all possibilities and variations. Impossible to turn them all into outlines. I did one that started out as a 3 part video but will need a 4th part (working on it): czcams.com/video/AtfXsVM9QDE/video.html.
Hi again. Thanks so much, I plan on becoming a Pareon member very soon. This video is now a year old and I like the lower cost of building a Rock but I just don’t have time and ability anymore. Id like a reasonable equivalent dollarwise to accomplish the same. Ive been looking at the Brooklyn and the + as my end DAC, is the + worth getting or do you think they’re about the same? Haven’t seen any real upgrade for the price. These are a couple of big questions I know. But more current information would help as Im in the planning stages of my purchases. Looking forward to your new class. (Education)
God Bless,
Nick
There are companies like Small Green Computer that offer ready to use Roon servers. But not for the same money, of course. The Brooklyn and the + don’t differ that much. If you can save money by buying the non + version I would.
Thanks Hans. I enjoy your very clear simple explanations. I am a tech guy, who has a dedicated Roon Core installed on an i5 NUC with Ubuntu 16.x. I have a few end points, including a Raspberry pi with USB out to a Bryston BDA-3. I have an uptone USB regen in place with upgraded power supply too. I'm impressed with the low noise floor and detail. My question is: Am I better off with ROCK (I have about 20,000 tracks, slowly grows) with this same end point and/or eliminating the pi and go direct between the i5 and my DAC with USB. Sometimes I find the pi looses connectivity to the DAC. Many thanks and happy holidays!
Rock works nicely but since you're a tech guy, I don't think is will offer you benefits over your current i5. Depending on your stereo you might consider the SOtM sMS-200 (czcams.com/video/TV-FvRF9KGA/video.html) or the SOtM sMS-200 Ultra. That certainly will improve the sound
Your review of the sotm ultra sounds very impressive and substantially better than a $50 raspberry pi3. I take a look. Happy holidays and I appreciate your prompt response.
Thanks Hans for the great Videos ! Always very knowledging !
I just discovered roon (through your videos), and the reason why i'm commenting here is that i'm planning to get a NUC to run my Plex server (i made the mistake to buy the 16 GB Nvidia shield, metadata cannot be stored on adoptive storage, so i ended up running Plex server on my NAS synology j216, which in fact is wayyy too poor), and i might use the promo code to give roon a try.
My question is : i will hook the NUC (an i7) to my Denon X1300 AVR which outputs the sound through a 5.1 system speakers i have (Taga Harmony speakers), do i need a DAC between NUC & Denon ? or HDMI is enough for a great sound quality ? how different would adding a DAC be?
Music files will be stored in my NAS.
Thanks in Advance.
I really can't say what's the best choice for you. But I would start connecting the NUC to the Marantz using HDMI, If that's not satisfying, I would go for a Raspberry Pi with HifiBerry Digi board or the Allo Digi One.
Hi, Hans. Thanks for this video series. I'm considering buying an Intel NUC and installing Room Rock. I have my return on a Hades i7 NUC. Do you think that form factor will work or should I look into a cube-shaped NUC? Thanks.
I don’t know the Hades but I don’t see how the form factor can be of importance.
Hello Hans,
a great series about Roon. I would also like to change. But don't find anything about backup.
Not the backup of the Roon data.
The backup of the music data hard disk should be included.
Is this backup included?
Are there other possibilities?
As always,
many thanks for the video and their work on them.
mk
Ron only backs up the Roon data. To back up your music files you should use a backup programm. I use Carbon Copy Cloner but any proper backup program will do.
Hi, now i have roon server on a mac mini, roon endpoint is an sotm sms-200 ultra.Mac mini works perfectly with roon.Is there any reason to go with nuc/rock route? It will be a change in Sq?
Thanks
Hi Hans, Thanks for the informative series on NUC/Roon. I am building a NUC to be used as Roon Core and my problem is that in my listening room (man cave) I have no ethrnet connections, only WiFi is available. Does it make sense to have the NUC hooked to my router in the living room and then stream music to my Chord Dave through my PC (Toslink connection) in the listening room?
So the path would be NUC -> Router -> WiFi -> PC -> Toslink -> DAC
Yes, absolutely, but given the quality of your DAC I would rather use a network bridge. Minimally a SOtM sMS-200 Ultra but even better the Auralic Aries G2. There must be others too, but these I know. You will be shocked by the sound improvement and it's certainly what the Dave deserves.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks. Yes but then again, I have no Ethernet so where do I hook the network bridge?
Hallo Hans, Is it your opion that the Nuc with Roon Rock sounds better with a better LPS rather than the standard wallwart powersupply?
It depends on how it is connected to your stereo and the distance between your stereo and your Roon Rock.Having the NUC in the attic and the stereo in the living connected using a network audio interface, I hear no difference. But having the NUC next to your stereo and connected over USB, a LPSU does improve the sound.
Hans, If you could buy only one box to have between your NUC and you DAC. Would your first choice (from a SQ point of view) be a NAA or a USB re-clocker?
+High End TV NNA, clearly. But a good one, of course.
Thanks Hans. I am considering a NUC with 2 Ethernet connections (such as the Sonic Transporter i7) as I imagine one can improve SQ by not having to send the data over a switch in order to reach the NAA, and being online at the same time. I had a look at the specs for Roon's Nucleus+ but it seems like it will "only" have one RJ45. Following your advice I will then start with a NAA (such as the SMS200 Ultra) with dedicated PS. And then when funds allow add a reclocker.
Hi Hans, what do you suggest if you have a DAC (cost $2.2K) that you live but the USB input is NOT Asynchronous? how to best connect to the Roon system to minimize jitter?
Use a DDC like the Singxer I reviewed: czcams.com/video/E9zA9-LPZBw/video.html.
Hi Hans, love your videos!
I am struggling to build good system for local high res music. Initially I was going to buy Cambridge audio CXN and play music from my NAS over DNLA, but then i saw how bad is CA app interface.
Now I am thinking of Roon Rock, and just trying to choose DAC and network player for it, hopefully to come to similar price as CA CXN would cost me, maybe you have any suggestions?
Thanks
I wish CXN was Roon ready..
Or perhaps you could recommend network players with DAC similar to CA CXN but roon ready? Under €2k
You can see what player I like in this playlist: czcams.com/video/f4FU1tqZdeU/video.html
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel thank you Hans. Although I would like to have a player with built in DAC that has rca cable for my amplifier, and also if I would go with rpi route, I would build my own than spend all this money as I own few rpis. Did you ever had a chance reviewing NADs network players that are Roon ready?
Or maybe I still need to go with CA CXN and then get a simple Roon endpoint between CXN and Roon Rock server hmm
Hans, a great set of videos, thank you. If I setup the roon rock in a different room to my roon end point (aires mini), does it matter from a sound quality perspective whether it is then linked together by WiFi or an Ethernet cable?
Hard to say. The protocol Roon uses is extremely robust but Wifi is not. I always go for Ethernet, just to be sure. It is a bit of a hassle but then again, it's only little money.
Hans, I assume you are running you set 1 as Nuc->Network->SOtM->Brooklyn DAC What settings are you using(including DSP). Thanks
in vanilla, actually. No DSP, no upsampling, no volume control other than device control, nothing. In my setup that delivers the highest sound quality.
Thank you for your reply - I ran my SOtM in airplay mode prior to my NUC+ arriving and the sound was absolutely FAB. I am now using as a Roon endpoint and I am less than happy. I did improve things using DSP, which I thought you might be using and I wanted to save time experimenting. My NUC+ is directly connected to my office router - so that maybe my issue - thoughts?
There is definitely something wrong.I don't have the time to guide you through a fault finding procedure but start with eliminating as much as 'smart tricks' from the system. Make sure the power supplies are good, run my 2 step loudspeaker placement procedure and don't give up. Your front end is of high quality and should sound like that without tricks.
Hi, is there a way that the NUC can connect to the Router wirelessly instead? Or does it really have to be hardwired? Thanks
If you run Roon Core on Windows or Linux, you can. If you have installed Roon Rock, you can't simply because Roonlabs think wifi for a music server is a bad idea. And I agree.
Hi Hans, I have a NUC7i5BNK with Roon Rock in the Living Room downstairs directly connected to the router with ethernet cable. I have also a NUC7i5BNK with Roon Bridge in the sleeping room on the first floor and a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC connected to one a USB port of this NUC.. The Pro-Ject DAC is connected with interlinks to an AV-Receiver with the speakers connected to it.
My question is.. what is the best solution if a want to reduce noise and jitter caused by the standard power supply of all my devices?
Please watch czcams.com/video/G9EreotBL6c/video.html
Building my system over time I can start with running Roon on my Mac Mini and go USB directly to a Brooklyn DAC followed by purchasing perhaps a Stom msm 200 ultra. Both of which should have good upgraded Linear power supplies and upgraded USB cables. Eventually I can do something like an Intel NUC or dedicated audio computer, sever/streamer. All of which can be controlled by an Ipad / Roon marriage. Sound right?
Thanks, and Ill be patiently waiting your next video.
Nick
Sounds great. Enjoy the music.
You can install Roon server on a NAS, but i'm pretty sure that "ROCK" is only supported on intel NUC?
Well you can install a special version of Roon Server on some high end NAS'ses (see the video) but that's an expensive business. You can also install Roon Server on Windows, Mac and Linux (each with its own version). And you can use a dedicated NUC to run Roon ROCK on. It's your choice. As I said in the video Roon runs on anything speedy enough and can work with a lot of Roon Ready devices.
I agree, however "ROCK" (Roon Optimized Core Kit) is a specialized version for NUC only.
On my NAS i would use docker to install Roon, I'm sure there are also native versions, but in both cases it would be "Roon Server" (Yes it's basically the same thing, but then again, its not)
Hans, great set of videos. I've been using Roon for a long time, but don't want to run the server on my computer any longer, because my antivirus software interferes with it. I have decided to buy a NUC to set up as a Roon server. I have read in the Amazon reviews, that the Intel NUC's fan is very loud. Can you comment on that? Was that negative review correct, or overstated? Would I want to place the NUC in a room where I don't care about the fan noise? Can I put it in a cabinet (well ventilated) in the room where I watch TV and not have the noise bother me?
I don't think mine has a fan and if it has, it is inaudible. But I don't use it in the living and prefer a networked audio adaptor near my stereo. There are several generations of NUC's out, so you might check what type was meant. The model number starts with NUC, followed by a generation number and the the processor used. The remaining alphabet soup is about the type of cabinet used. So NUC6i3 DKS is a 6th gen NUC running an Intel i3 processor. I use a 6th gen i3 NUC in the housing that can also hold a 3.5 inch drive. Not that I use that, but more space makes easier cooling. The i3 serves me well and I have around 10,000 albums on my external USB3 hard disk.
You describe the way data is sent over USB from the NUC to a DAC. Since data over USB doesn't get corrupted or go missing, this means the DAC gets the data bit perfect. This being the case, why do USB cables sound different and why would the NUC have better sound quality than say a RaspberryPi running something like RuneAudio
See my video How digital can go wrong
Thank you for the response and the link. In my simplistic view, you seem to be saying that there are two causes for sound differences, corrupt data and jitter. If a cable caused data corruption then using it to transfer data a USB hard drive would be disastrous. If a cable was good enough for connecting an HDD I would have thought it would be good enough for a DAC.
The other cause is jitter. But in your explanation of how data over a USB is buffered by the DAC and signals are sent back to the source to start and stop the flow of data as the buffer fills and empties, the data is clocked out of the buffer rather than being reliant on the precise timing on the USB cable. So there would be no jitter induced by the USB cable.
I'm afraid I still don't understand why they sound different :(
That’s because you think like a ICT guy. Quality audio appears to be vastly more critical. Even reading out a buffer creates noise. But I think the only way to convince you is to have you listen. Try to get a demo of a SOtM or microRendu. That will take away the tech floor under your feet. Please do appreciate that I do understand your view. Been there, done it.
Thank you very much for your help. I have first hand experience of the difference between a cheap patch USB cable and a £400 Chord Reference cable. I'm using a Innuos Zenith Mk2 network player and a Bryston BDA-3 DAC and wanted to understand why this combination sounds so different when using different USB cables. I guess I should just go and listen to music and stop worrying about :)
Will a high quality LPS add anything to a fanless NUC connected over Ethernet (EtherRegen in between)?
I don’t think so.
Hi Hans
If I want to use an Intel NUC with Roon Rock in the same rack as the rest of my system, would I have to use a linear power supply, or would an iFi Audio iPower Supply be sufficient?
The iPower 15 volts version only does 1.5 amps, which for the NUC is probably too low since a SMPS is hard limited at its specs. sBooster does support the NUC, as can be seen here: www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-18-19v/.
If i also want a Nuc as my audio device, and i have both the sPS-500 and tX-USB Ultra, would i also have to use the linear power supply to get better sq?
I don’t know, I haven’t reviewed the SOtM’s you use
Okay thanks for your answer!
Hans, Thank you for the instructive videos. I know have a NUC i7 running the Roon Rock OS. I want to run it from a separate room to boost sound quality but how do I setup the Roon player to use my DAC as the playback
You need a network bridge then. Watch czcams.com/video/n26CMGX_yrk/video.html and my playlist for network bridges: czcams.com/video/2XRi9utNBl4/video.html
I’m currently using Sonos and I use the SPDIF coaxial output connected to an older high quality DAC that only supports TOSLINK and SPDIF coaxial inputs. I want to improve my sound quality and start using Roon without replacing my DAC. I’d really like to buy and use a Roon Nucleus but it doesn’t output SPDIF coaxial. I’ve considered a Bluesound Node 2i but I’m not sure it would improve my sound quality very much. Can you recommend a high quality setup option that allows me to continue using my beloved DAC?
The Roon Nucleus is not needed if you use a network bridge. Watch
Things I learned about digital audio over the last years. You cab make a simple network bridge using a Raspberry Pi (watch czcams.com/video/DmeUxk14vCc/video.html) and if you have more to spend watch czcams.com/video/2XRi9utNBl4/video.html
Thank you for your quick response. Your suggestion of the Micro Rendu won’t work since I only have a SPDIF input on my DAC. The Raspberry Pi setup with the Berry board looks interesting and is inexpensive. Would you expect the Raspberry Pi output to sound better than my Sonos output into my DAC?
Only if you use it with a specialist sound card that outputs SPDIF like those by Allo or Hifiberry.
Thank you very much for your input! I think I’ll get the Raspberry Pi and HifiBerry board on order.
So my Node 2i is connected via cinch to my preamp (DAC inside), my NUC is connected via LAN to my router. I guess my NUC "talks" to the Node 2i via WiFi. Is this a bad setup for sound quality? Should I switch to a wired solution with proper power supplies?
Hard to say. It depends on how busy the Wifi band is at your place and what router you use. Can't help you there.
hi, can I use roon connected roon bridge on my windows 10 pc? o roon bridge can only be used with roon rock (nuc), sorry for my english.
2. on my windows 10 pc, is it better to install roon or roon server? Gracias.
Roon bridges work with any Roon version, be it Windows, MacOS, Linux or Roon Rock. On Windows 10 just install the full version of Roon. There is nothing to gain from installing the server part only.
Roon Bridges funcionan con cualquier versión de Roon, ya sea Windows, MacOS, Linux o Roon Rock. En Windows 10, simplemente instale la versión completa de Roon. No hay nada que ganar con instalar únicamente la parte del servidor.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thank you very much for your help. my pc is in a room away from my denon receiver, this is in the living room, so i want to use a raspberry bridge connected to the dac (ifi zen) and this connected to the denon receiver (i prefer a dedicated mqa dac over the denon's dac ), also the Heos app is horrible, much better the roon display. does this configuration work for me?
Hola, como estás? Consulta, si instalo roon rock en mi oficina (sala 1) y quiero usar mi receiver a/v como punto final, todo conectado en red ethernet. Se puede, o debo usar algo más (raspberry??), por presupuesto solo puedo agregar un nuc.
I have an Adcom Gda-700. Only has spiff coax or tos link input. Roon makes a server. I like my dad just want to use 44.1 or 48. Any suggestions?
Spdif
I have 900 McD's I am an audiophile
Cd's
I don't really understand what you want to know.
hi, can i connect a nuc with roon rock directly to a DAC? or should i put on a raspberry bridge? Because there is also a roon server, I don't know what difference it has with roon rock.
Roon Rock and Roon for Windows, Mac and Linux all contain the server program and the user interface. You can run Roon Rock (and the other versions) and connect the DAC directly to the computer it is running on. But a good network bridge offers higher sound quality.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel roon server y roon rock tienen que estar en una pc dedicada?
Not necessarily. But if you want to use the Roon Rock software, it will only run on a dedicated Intel NUC computer. On a computer running Windows, MacOS or Linux you can have it run next to other applications as long as there is enough computing power left to run Roon properly.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel roon server tiene interfaz? Porque en página web de roonlab veo que hay roon rock, roon server y roon?
You are right, Server has no user interface. So use "Roon".
Is rock software free.without roon subscription can it be used.
The rock software won't work without a license
I have tried ROCK and I don't really get it?
I find it very limiting and overkill for what it does.
I instead have installed Debian Linux on my NUC and have installed roon server (via docker) and I use a microrendu as endpoint.
The cool thing about this setup is that I can do all kinds of things with the NUC while still serving Roon. I also run Beets (to fix metadata) and Plex Media Server on the same NUC.
If you are not using the ROCK as an endpoint, don't use it, run with docker instead...
To each his own. I wouldn't have my music system be busy with anything else. But that's just me.
I agree, but i rarely listen to music and watch movies at the same time. and since it's server only, there is no noise to worry about.
Also i had my ROCK crash and found that I did not really have any troubleshooting tools in ROCK, and I was forced to reinstall the whole thing.
Using docker it works the same as ROCK except for the endpoint part. I'm sure that works better in ROCK, but since i have a microrendu it's not an issue.
Is the promo code still valid?
I’m afraid not. Sorry
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for this extremely fast answer! Kind regards, Tom
Do you compared the roon core on windows 64 and Rock ? there is a quality difference managing USB DAC?
Whether Roon will run better on one or the other computer is impossible to compare since it will be the hardware plus the drivers that will make the difference. The best way is to make replay independent from the computer by playing over the network to a Roon Ready device.
I was thinking to install Rock but, installing roon core on my windows fanless PC I'm happy about quality of sound and have more flexiblity... I can use Jriver or easely other players when needed. Dedicated system is fine for stability and good performance but I don't like lost flexibility of the system.