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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in-person with Steven Bonnell II, also known as Destiny. They discuss the differences between the left and the right, force versus invitation, the feasibility and pitfalls of command economies, the dangers of ideology, and government response to worldwide crises.
Destiny, also known as Steven Bonnell II, is a prominent political commentator and content creator known for his debate skills and provocative takes on various issues. With a passion for gaming, politics, and philosophy, Destiny engages in lively discussions that often challenge the status quo.
This episode was recorded on February 3rd, 2024
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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On X TheOmniLiberal?re...
- Chapters -
(0:00) Tour info 2024
(0:40) Coming up
(1:18) Intro
(2:22) Early days of streaming, how Steven entered political commentary
(7:40) Changes in thinking: shifting to the left
(12:11) The key differences between left and right worldviews
(13:29) Intervention, distribution, gigantism, and populism
(23:42) Redistribution and command economies, can they work?
(29:32) Negative externalities, balancing free markets with incentivized behavior and their effects on the poor
(37:34) Climate and economic models: two Towers of Babel
(40:57) The timeframe of C02 models changes the outlook, so how far back should we consider?
(43:12) The green guise of compassion obscures underlying intent
(47:34) The psychology of those who utter, “There are too many people on the planet”
(49:46) Destiny’s Jenga Tower, an analogy for how people become stuck in their beliefs
(57:00) Why people fear nuclear energy
(58:30) Realities of the green energy pipe dream
(1:00:32) Is it malevolence or ignorance that drives bad ideas? Motives versus public perception
(1:03:19) Both parties wield power when they have it, so how do we mitigate it?
(1:07:37) Was WWII Germany right or left wing?
(1:09:19) Moses and the desert
(1:13:56) Living in separate realities and bridging the divide
(1:15:50) MRNA, validity of rollout and excess deaths
(1:24:34) It wasn’t just the left
(1:26:27) Weighing the fear of a crisis against the use of experimental technology
(1:30:00) Mass consensus
(1:37:38) Psychopathy and levels of malevolence
(1:43:10) Do marriage and society exist without force?
(1:47:50) Tit-for-tat, force or justice?
(1:59:11) Why Steven debates
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This feels like a father and son debating over the dinner table after the rest of the family had enough and went to bed... and its great lol
32:07
🤣 No, kidding ...
Is that what fathers are supposed to do?
@@SB-mr2nk the political/philosophical discussions I have with my father are some of the most important discussions of my life. Without patting myself on the back too much, I feel like I give him a nuance perspective into my generation, and he gives me an extremely grounded perspective into how we got to this point in the world. Best person I know to talk about anything
This is also how adult friends interacted when I was a child. I have wonderful memories of my parents and other couples they were friends with sitting around our kitchen table "debating" issues for hours. Drinking coffee and having some intense conversations with no malice, aggression, or hurt feelings. Even when they disagreed on the topics. And remaining friends despite their differences. Taught me a lot about how to be a real adult, stand for what you believe in while respecting other people's right to do the same. To also respectfully listen to other people's differing opinions with an open mind because we're never too old to learn from each other. I miss that so much these days.
I love a debate with zero personal attacks.
Thats a great point, how rare tbh.
I dont agree with Destiny almost at all but I respect him for being a good faith actor. If only more lefties where like that, conversations could get somewhere.
@@vakuzarthe point is not to get anywhere, as a whole neither side is trying to build something better, each side wants to win for themselves, no matter what, that’s all
@@34fdfgbr I too use insults when I have nothing of substance to say XD
@@34fdfgbr nice personal attack.
@@34fdfgbrWelp. Tick that "personal attacks" counter to 1 because of you.
This is how presidential debates should happen. 2 people and a camera.
not gonna happen with biden and trump. don't see their minds getting that deep.
Agreed. The media, controls way too much of what we have opportunity to see and listen to.
Jp for VP.
@@lisafeck1537they have less control than ever lmfao
That would be nice, but you have to be a pro at recognizing when something has started to go off the rails and be able to bring it back. I don't think most people can do that in a way a psychologist like JBP can because his profession was to sort out thoughts.
Love the arguing with the teacher vibes throughout.
I hope people may see who is the teacher
He is a teacher/instructor/professor by profession.
@@nadeemamode he is a professional instructor.
@@vinnycc06 yes i realise that im just pointing out that hes handled punks like this dude plenty of times in his day job as a psychology professor
@@nadeemamode Good for you 👍
Jordan told Destiny, "You have the right to your own Destiny" without a hint of irony. What a fantastic conversation.
1:13:11
He didn’t even give our girl Destiny a paper to roll up and fidget with. Hitler level evil
Baller!
Oh no I arrived late to comment that! Lol
Yea, great convo.
Never in my life did I think I would see this pairing, I admire the diversity of guests on this podcast.
His daughter is friends with Lauren Southern. Who apparently had his bastard child. After his experiment with cuckoldry and marital failure.
"So maybe it wasn't a good idea to let your wife get ran through by random dudes for money. Okay, okay.."
Always so important to have diverse viewpoints. Good thing there is a strong black italian woman being included in the discourse finally.
Peterson does try to get many more left leaning people on but they almost always refuse. It is very disappointing as I would love to see a divergent range of thought/opinions. Kudos to Destiny for stepping up.
Destiny does always talk more to conservatives than other leftists do. @@zarbins
One of the best debates i've seen in years, What a treat.
You can’t be serious. Jordan’s IQ Is like twice his. This is the equivalent to a phd “debating” a 6th grader.
@@RStories780 Actually amazed that Peterson framed Destiny as a guy who wants to be right, when he insisted so much to prove the veracity of his points all along their conversation...
He is still debating to be right till this day and he can't even realize it by himself.
The level of projection is insane.
Good thing he didn't become a psychologist.
@@jackporter8877 You clearly don't know anything about Jordan, he *was* a clinical psychologist for the majority of his life, and he lost the title once he started to get more politically active online
@@jackporter8877 you dumb
@@RStories780 Its really cringe that theres 2 hours of discussion to talk about here, issues to take with destiny, and instead you invent both their IQ's and compare them instead. I'd imagine these guys are within 20 IQ points of each other
1:35:23 - After a peak of heated argument, Jordan makes a small non-targeted joke, and they both laugh about it for a second and then move on. Another thing illustrating how surprisingly well this conversation went
The subtle, unspoken, mutual apologies for getting too worked up were things of absolute beauty. I'd love to see much more between these two.
I do see what you're talking about, but I would (somewhat parasocially) guess that destiny does not really see getting "worked up" as a negative thing he'd have to apologize for. He's said before that he enjoys conversations like that much more than never truly getting into the details. My guess is that JBP is probably the same way.
Destiny doesn't view it as a problem, but he absolutely recognizes it normally conveys high tension friction and overly combativeness, which he's specifically tried to not be swept up in. Finkelstein Debate is another such example, he kept his cool, even if just for appearances, so while he personally doesn't dislike the high tension verbal "fights", when it comes to getting your point across to a different audience, he's made a point of making sure not to get swept up in raising the temperature, or mudslinging (although mudslinging didn't occur here, despite the tone almost seeming to indocate it could happen).
If an apology is both subtle and unspoken then that’s not an apology
@@kyle8688if it's heard then it's an apology
@@kyle8688 it doesn't need to be a verbalised apology to recognize there was an acknowledgement of tempers flaring or the temperature increasing, for both parties to feel the need and want to cooperate to decrease the tension in the room. If you want to argue semantics, we'll probably be here all day.
“ guys please you’re ruining Easter for the whole family”
😂😂😂😂😂
BUT I DON'T TRUST PEOPLE THAT USE FORCE, NOW LEMME HALF MY URANIUM ENRICHED KOOL AID. Grandpa, you called the cops on the "shady" people that moved next door. SO?! oh irony. Destiny says there's hypocrisy and abuses of power on both sides. JP: BUT THE LEFT... Just cause you use multi syllable words and have a degree in sociology don't make you an expert in big data modeling, idiot.
Too late, Biden already ruined it.
You mean trans visibility day😂😂😂
@@Snowflake_Destroyer waaahhh
It’s heartening to see lots of comments about the lack of personal attacks, but in all realness it seemed that none of the core issues that came up were resolved. Both passionately wove their own arguments without diving too deep into the others. I would certainly love to see a more structured approach to coming to understanding between the two perspectives.
Yeah, a few hours is not really enough time to delve into complex topics like climate change and vaccines, but hey, this conversation was still good.
@@youtubeviolatedme7123 Agreed. Although in light of that I feel, at least for me, that we would have been greater serviced by an in depth dive into a few topics rather than a surface level evaluation of a multitude.
I’ll help you with climate change. We are currently in an ice age. An ice age is defined as having permanent polar ice caps.
The norm for the earth is not having an ice age. Humans have only existed in an ice age.
The worst outcomes from the models are no where near hot enough to actually cause a catastrophe. We can get a lot hotter.
If you notice, they talk about the rate of change being the problem.
Things will change but it can’t be the end of the world.
Primates, including humans are most adapted to living in the tropics and towards the equator. Higher temperatures means longer growing seasons.
A higher global temperature is actually better for humans. The time of transition is where the danger is.
I agree with Peterson. Let poor people get rich now and we can figure stuff out later when we have better tech.
Also, according to the models we can’t really stop anything unless we de industrialize. Even if the U.S. and Europe take on the most draconian restrictions, we still won’t stop it.
It’s much better to focus on handling the issues caused by global warming than trying to stop it.
Sometimes people act as if we should spend all the money possible to stop global warming.
However, it’s not a world ending event and we should look at what we’re trading for it. Other social programs or a tax break might be a better use of money than limiting carbon.
We need to move our discourse to what to do.
@@jeremymullens7167 Keeping the conversation on stopping an impossible giant like mother nature keeps people ignorant of the true issues, that much seems obvious. I want to imagine there is more to the science than that, but the butterfly effect essentially cements our lack of understanding and predictability of mother nature. So you seem to have a good evaluation of the situation. Hopefully we are allowed opportunities to further advocate for truth.
I became suspicious of stats after reading two books that came to different opposing opinions even though they both seemed rational and well thought out. It causes me to notice manipulation.
NPR ran a global warming story years ago. Gave a water rising range then proceeded to act as if the most extreme worst case is what was going to happen even though it had almost similar odds to basically nothing because not very much increase was in the model. The news story just didn’t talk about it like it was.
Really it was just learning about geology unrelated to global warming that really opened my eyes. I like evolution and paleontology and I came across the definition for Ice Age.
It was verifiable. The norm for the earth was no ice caps. Contrary to what you would think. At time scale that encompasses all time with tetrapods life. we’re at the colder end.
Then I watched a paleontology video on the Permian extinction event that tried to compare it to current global warming. That didn’t pass the smell test for me so I checked the temperatures.
The temperature increase predicted took us nowhere the Permian mass extinction catastrophe level. It actually brought us up to a comfortable range. And that’s the highest most extreme prediction.
The truth to green house gases and climate change is that volcanic activity dwarfs humans burning coal.
Most of the co2 that stabilizes our climate is sequestered underground in rocks.
The coal we’re digging up are woody plants from the Carboniferous. At the time, fungi weren’t eating wood so it piled up and eventually became coal. It was a 1 time carbon sequester event.
We aren’t actually “adding” carbon. The carbon here has always been here outside meteors hitting the earth.
The climate during the Carboniferous was not unstable.
The warming effect of volcanic activity historically is so much more extreme. Almost coming to the complete extinction of life on earth.
Some of this is just human hubris by my measure. Take the doomsday clock and the threat of nuclear destruction hanging over the planet that could end all life.
Check the energy level of the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. Then compare it to all the nuclear weapons that exist.(I got curious one day). We have baby numbers compared to that thing.
By my estimation, a Cretaceous sized meteor today would not be sufficient to kill humanity.
We are the wrong size to survive. However, we have the right diet.
We can still eat whatever it is our ancestors ate to survive the extinction event. Fungus and small animals is your new food source because every single plant is going dormant for years.(there will be a multi year winter).
However, with our level of technology, we can probably produce enough food to sustain some type of viable population. Even though sans our intelligence we couldn’t get passed the extinction even due to our size. Geothermal and other energy(maybe even fossil fuel) can get us by.
This means every bomb going off at the same time, can not make humanity extinct. It’s just a very bad time(mostly problems due to sun blockage)
Humans are overestimating their ability to manipulate the environment. There’s a reason we’re not quite a type-1 civilization. A type-1 civ could destroy their planet.
Fear sells. If any news story is relying on fear you should automatically be suspicious of it.
The format for this debate/discussion is fire. Thank you thank you thank you Jordan.
51:15 it is weird that destiny's response get muted by a commercial, without pause...
and it happened again at 1:16:34
51 minutes in, things are tense, the fadeaway to the advertisement had me DYING of laughter
Such is the daily wire
the only fadeaway i saw was destiny's beard. dude slipped in the shower while shaving.
@@nothingspecial1241it's likely alopecia barbae. Funny how his recent interviews always have that spot of his beard facing the camera though lol. It can grow back but he should just shave the sides until it does.
@@stillnotchill2560 It is alopecia, Destiny brought it up several times on stream.
Edit: Also he did shave the sides xD
Yo this shit makes me so sick. Why do they cover up the actual content with the ad. Why don't they just pause the content and show the ad?
Wow, what a rarity! A non-moderated, true debate with plenty of yelling and passion, but not a single personal attack! And for 2 hours!
I hope this is a sign that the medium and participants are maturing. Doubtful but I can hope.
@@lameuser1they both have independent platforms. This was organized by themselves and not a network
Probably because it wasn't a debate at all. It was an interview where some disagreements came up. Not sure an actual debate would go the same way.
I love to see passion from both sides!!
I love the passion is this discussion ❤
This is AMAZING!!!!!!!!
This was a great conversation. Im typically more aligned with Petersons point of view. I have to say that Peterson uses quite a few straw man arguments when discussing with people. He incredibly knowledgeable but he doesn’t seem to like to talk about actual solutions.
Destiny is like water. He may have less wisdom but he tries to focus the conversation.
Peterson does do a good job interviewing his guests. But he’s been saying the exact same things for the last ten years. I’m not sure if he is capable of changing his mind.
And I don’t think anyone will respond to this comment, but I would be happy for someone to disagree :)
Jordans suit game is outta this world
Yeah that is a bold choice
@@reghtycringe
It’s awful
He wore that during the visit to sioux-falls. I asked him if he would be willing to trade, straight up, for mine. Got a solid laugh. No blazers were exchanged that evening. But memories were made.
His suit game as of late has actually been pretty cringy/bad, tbh
Mr Vermicelli was surprisingly respectful and well tempered. Great talk.
Yeah he walked the line gracefully
Except during the vaccine bit
Yup Mr barmelli was nice today lol
Mr. Burelli used his wiki knowledge to make the conversation interesting.
Basssseeeddddd
Love this! More of this please! Love watching Peterson getting passionate.
You mean getting angry cause he’s getting cooked
@@zachary_smith1Where did he get cooked?
This was great- I respect both for their thoughtfulness
As a conservative, I am now skeptical aboul both gigantic business and government. It's especially dangerous because they are working together.
Government enables big businesses to exist.
Think back to Teddy Roosevelt you’ll see why he was a Trust Busting conservative
Great comment. Centralized power in general is always concerning to me
Hence why you shouldn't keep voting I'm the same asswipe parties...stop voting republican abd democrat
As a liberal, I am happy conservatives are now seeing the issue with big business. About 10 years back there was a fairly significant libertarian movement on the right, especially regarding Ron Paul and the tea party where they wanted big business to have 0 limitations and ultimately complete control. Scary when those same corporations without limitations would also without limitation take their money in towards lobbyists behind closed doors to basically be the government themselves without anyone seeing it.
Liberals, including myself, nowadays also see the problem with big government in hindsight, especially when war is concerned. If you ask any liberal which president killed the most people in history, it wasn't a conservative, but Barack Obama. Its a fact, and hard for other libs to swallow.
The pure joy Jordan got from an actual debate must be so rewarding 😂
Intellectual honesty. Nice!
This wasn't a debate, really. JP debated Dillahunty, Sam Harris, and Zizek. They were all L's for him.
@@chekz3520facts
lol, what ever you say buddy@@chekz3520
@chekz3520 you are ignorant, wrong and clearly never watched those conversations 😂😂😂😂😂
I’m so thrilled to see a proper “left vs right” debate.
A much missed act of the past.
Hats off to both of you. A perfect example of what needs to again happen more in our societies and NA countries.
I love this conversation. Music to my ears. Great debate
Its good to see destiny in therapy.
Savage
Let’s hope it works.
Exactly
He think he’s so smart but his wife left him for a younger guy and opened relationships didn’t work either ! Looser!
Destiny need more dope or vaccines to keep him going
Thank you for having Mr. Bonerelli on. I always enjoy when people from different sides of the political spectrum talk to each other.
It was great to see Mr. Borelli on here!
Destiny has some reasonable views
Good to know, *HostileTakeover555.*
@@stendaalcartography3436 - Indeed - I like that since JP is a Psychologist that it makes for a more interesting interview/debate unlike one Mr. Cuchinelli has done before.
@@NickTheShark_he doesn't have any views. He is a nihilist internet debate bro. He believes in nothing.
It is INSANE how smart Jordan is. It absolutely blows me away.
There are smarter people out there.
Honestly, it was pretty disappointing as a follower of him. His angry “don’t play Hume with me” at 1:39:45 was pretty lame.
@@Damian-cd2tj Are you saying he isn't insanely intelligent?
The more open educated and research you do the more truth,facts information you have better decisions.
I started to think this interview never happened because it took a long time to be released
Were you edging or were you gooning?
Not everyone uses spotify
@@nyChannel09I don't use Spotify for podcast and I wasn't really complaining
To be fair we had reason to doubt given Destiny used a JP interview as a bait & switch before
@@RedactedUsernameWe certainly had a reason
Bro I’m so here for this. I love how more podcasts are doing the left/right crossover. I respect both these gentlemen.
It would be nice to have more of them but the only people I've seen from the left that are willing to do it are Destiny and Ana Kasparian.
Well, Cenk went on a couple during his 'presidential run' but IMO it was only to grandstand and try for 'gotchas'. He didn't seem interested in having a real discussion.
This used to be the norm.
It's weird you think this is so novel 🙄
@@TheNancypooWhen was it the norm? I’m only 26 and this is pretty unique to me (since I’ve been old enough to remember and appreciate it)
I would n🎉describe Destiny as a gentleman
@@Kurnheliosim 29. This was before our time. Firing line is a good example. Check out Thomas Sowell on there, its incredible.
I’m here for all of this. People of different beliefs in discussion without personally attacking the other. Both had great points and could agree on things like normal human beings.
Super interesting conversation. This is what REAL debate should look like.
The interview is actually real
I still cant believe it, lmao
Thanks Lex
How old is this
@@dashockpixle4140I believe it was filmed on February 2nd or 3rd
lets see how much destiny wanted to cut out
You rarely ever see Peterson like this. It's fantastic to watch.
I've never seen him like this.
He's used to people agreeing with him on everything
@@user-qd8ou9lo4x He's tired of the facade and lies. Quite a lot of us are at this point.
@@user-qd8ou9lo4xhe’s probably not use to talking to midwits that just rattle off talking points that the person saying them doesn’t even understand. Zero original thoughts, all partisan hackery
That's actually the opposite. His rise to fame was because of talking with people that disagreed with him.@@user-qd8ou9lo4x
This was good... Made me think on things deeper than I was able prior
Fantastic debate, It is so refreshing to listen to two people have smart heated conversation. Bravo to the both of you. Thanks for letting me watch. Cheers
Destiny has absolutely zero psychological training and zero credibility! Sorry just saying the obvious!
Ha only Jordan Peterson has smarts and credibility! Destiny is a LEFT wing HACK!!
The debate on vaccines and climate change was actually fun to listen to. I like when debate opponents actually acknowledge what the other one is saying and address it instead of running down their own dialogue tree.
Like how neither of them or you realize that not a single pediatric vaccine in the US has ever been safety tested 😂
Or how there’s no way to record the average temperature of the earth, least of all no way to model the infinite number of variables. If there was, banks and corporations would be using the algorithm, not the fuckin weather man 🤣
You simpletons will fall for any propaganda
You literally have to have 30 iq to not get the "vaccines" was a money grab
@nft3 NPC
@@polpottopgyou’re the npc because you dont know that a single pediatric vax has ever been safety tested 😂
@@zakeaton5632you'd think that would make you more apprehensive about the vaccine not less .
I noticed something very important in this debate. Both were willing to clarify definitions on multiple occasions.
That makes everything consistent and they are both in the same terms in what they're talking about. There's something relaxing and satisfying when the conversation is this clear
Which makes it all very entertaining and engaging right to the end.
Both are also activily engaging ain listening and trying to understand what other person is saying, instead of the usual where there is one person who is doing very little listening but a huge lot of assuming
So much better than name calling
If only more people cared about definitions. Instead we assume the worst and end up arguing about 2 different things, while thinking we are arguing about the same thing. Which is just a waste of time.
Great stuff!!! JP on point.
Bigg props to desteny fore wanting to attemt a discussion
The way Jordan Peterson can review the conversation on command and recall a point from the beginning of the convo to then apply it with surgical precision is quite incredible
Great observation. I just started watching the video but I totally get your point and have seen it many times. I wish I could do that or could even retain just a tiny bit of the things I read like JP can.
He's a clinical psychologist
My wife can do this and I find it OP and unfair lol
@@mandrewski2742 all i can say in regards to such a skill is with great power comes great responsibility 🤣
I thought he lost this argument and I didn't want him to
One of Jordan's best interviews by a large margin.
@@andrewstarr8062you all over the comments crying jp had an interesting conversation, your brain is rotted
@@andrewstarr8062who hurt you lol
yeah i would not declare that so quickly. But i enjoyed it a lot. @@andrewstarr8062
Yep, it was an immaculate debate by two excellent intellectuals on opposite political spectrum.
@@Lol-ww8xd🤣
Great convo with Mr Jordan Peterson and Mr Steven Բոննել.
Great debate would love to see a series of just you guys
These guys had such natural chemistry they could easily do this regularly and have enormous success. Don’t sleep on this rare dynamic that’s been uncovered. It’s special.
Yeah there is something happening here that feels entirely productive.
Good point
I doubt they collaborate again for a while. It’s a shame though, this convo was really good.
Initially I didn't feel it that much, but by the end of the conversation I think it was good.
I agree their chemistry/dynamic completely captured my attention
Probably one of JP’s most interesting talks I’ve heard in a while. Very good pairing here.
Impressed by destiny
These guys should argue more often. I'm a destiny fan but it's so good to see someone intelligently push back and make him go a level or 2 deeper or make him use precise language particularly because Peterson is intently listening and engaging.
Give us a once a month argument about anything 🤣
Yes, I particularly liked their back and forth on vaccines. It really challenged my beliefs on both sides and I think they both made excellent points. It’s very rare to see those sorts of conversations where you can see people with opposing perspectives and agree with both in different aspects.
@@arenegadeboss Right? Feel like Destiny's the only person I've personally seen that had Dr. P stopping and thinking a bit more than usual about his reasoning.
@@drearmouse9510Yes I agree, and coming from the side of a Destiny fan, this is one of the first times I’ve truly seen someone make him stop and think about his reasoning.
This is why it’s so important to have smart people from both sides debate complex topics, it’s the only way we can move forward as a country and as a people. Very impressed by both and I hope they do this again.
Destiny did a good job talking with Jordan. I’m impressed even though I don’t agree with everything he says he made some good points. I really enjoyed this.
This is the only conversation I don't have to 2x the speed.
Exactly!
The clips are not doing this conversation justice. The clips make it seem like the conversation was very contentious but they are very civil to each other. This was wonderful thank you for the video!
Same thing I thought too. Clips really paint the wrong energy of the conversation
100%
That's exactly what I thought.
The clippers strongly rely on the assumption that no one has the attention span to watch the original, that's why they upload strategically clipped shorts to paint the discussion in whatever light they want. Unfortunately it's working, as you can clearly see the difference between the comments section here, vs the comments sections on shorts.
You took the words out of my mouth!
Maybe it's just me, but I really like how animated both of them are in this conversation
@@Noname-lw6hpbrother what lol
@@Noname-lw6hp that sounds like projecting your anxiety
@@Noname-lw6hpIt feels more like destiny is being careful not to be too confrontational, to not shut down the conversation
Yes, (except for at certain micro-points), the animation felt passionate and sincere rather than an explosion of hostility.
how many top comments can you have in one thread
Is there an analysis of how long each of them spoke?
This might be the best debate iv ever seen; so interesting.
This is exactly why free speech is so damn important.
Without it we can never talk to each other
be honest do you even want to talk to them
Peterson didn't let Destiny speak at all though lol
@@victorespino5650no, it’s Destiny that doesn’t have anything to contribute.
He’s an idiot.
Free speech protects you from the government and it has been like that since the dawn of this nation
@@victorespino5650 right? He was shouting the entire time and interrupted him left right and centre. Super disappointed...
This Tyrion vs Tywin Lannister debate was too good
LOL
Holy shit lol
😭😭😭
I felt like I had seen this dynamic before and you just blew my mind
Exactly 👍
lol 😂
Love this!!
More of these debates please
This was fantastic, truly showing how disagreements can be made apparent while respect can still exist.
No ad-hominems. This is the way it should ALWAYS be in debates.
😂❤
Distinction between right and wrong becomes irrelevant upon the unyielding fields of subliminal enterprise, must a discussion pertaining to efficacy denote the honoury? How I admire you both, this is the best advocation for reasonableness yet.
Bravo 😅
Lol you don’t see much
@@jimjohn9041 nay brother, I see all
I know right! It’s funny/sad how it seems so abnormal and note worthy watching a 2 hour long debate between polar opposites completely devoid of ad hominem lobbing, and only a handful of moments of voice elevation and head shaking. Perhaps these two could conduct debate classes for would be and current politicians alike…🤔🤷🏾♂️
Petition to have multiple conversation between the two forming a playlist
I’d play it at night to fall asleep to.
I was literally about to comment, "Where do I sign the petition to have this be a weekly podcast?"
Glad I wasn't the only one lol
This!! 100%
Yes❤
yepyepyep
Fascinating!! Loved it
This was fantastic. They should definitely do it more often.
So good to see JP looking healthy again.
Amen KetoVore
no
Mr Cincinatti was super respectful in this conversation, great talk.
Mr Martelli
I spit out my coffee at this comment; I regret that I only have one like to give
Mr Spaghetti
Imagine being a jp viewer and seeing all these dgg comments lol
@@aries8910the psyop is in full effect dggL
I can’t wait for their next sitdown.
Excellent conversation to hear attentively
Destiny it was NOT Biden alone that said the vaccine would get rid of transmission. NIH officials and CDC officials said the same thing.
Did they say it got rid? Or reduced?
Fauci himself said it
@@kylemcmahon9868 They absolutely said reduce lol
@SquishJessica in the beginning they said " got rid of"
@@adamcox6960fauci said it 1 time. If you look at the bulk of the messages from the go and people like fauci, then its clear they ran a campaign that said it would reduce.
This interview is giving me nostalgia from Old School JP debates. I'm very encouraged at the intellectual honesty both men had, no personal attacks, no assuming other person's perspective, just speaking about the issues
Just, you know, climate change science is equivalent to nazis...that part is pretty dishonest
Destiny is not an intellectual. Sorry about that. He made his name off of TDS
@FastAndEasy2010 not climate science, the movement behind climate science, you didn't pay enough attention apparently
Yes but the interview is a good example of why the left avoids debate and relies on censorship and paid influencers
@@FastAndEasy2010your right the Nazis raised their people's standard of living
Unbelievable debate. Loved it. Thank you much!
The problem with the comment section on CZcams is that people try to intellectually trample or troll other people without seeing being in contact face to face, either in a zoom meeting or in person. People would not (generally) act is similar ways if they could read others facial expressions or body language, because instantiated in a personal context they provide context. It is actually refreshing to see people disagree and argue in a heated way that remains courteous and restrained. Destiny is an intelligent guy; obviously JP is as well. I don’t know Destiny’s educational history (I’m not one to impose the idea that a university degree is a necessity for someone being deemed an intellectual), but since Jordan Peterson joined the DW I’m a bit hesitant at times (not to listen), but to question implicit bias. I’m not the biggest Ben Shapiro fan, but I really like Brett Cooper. You can tell Destiny does take his time to learn from people of different and diverse fields of study. I thought Destiny did well even though especially on the vaccine and climate change I favor Jordan’s views. At this point in time I find debates kind of redundant (even though I’m glad they are taking place). I try my best being that I have certain biases and with certain subjects tend to be emotional to look at solutions with the idea that there is no such thing as a “pure” solution. There are no solutions in life, only trade-offs; Thomas Sowell changed the way I view the world, so at this point I try to think about what trade-offs result in the best results. To constantly attempt to see the truth you have to love the truth, Blaise Pascal wrote about that very fervently. I think it’s sad that people try to own each other in comments instead of actually farming the grounds of understanding. Love everybody. ❤️
This was probably the best "debate" conversation between these kind of people in a while
I agree it was one of the best debates and the emotional hubris that represents the left Lost again!
@@habitat2990 Dude, I feel like we were watching two different debates lmao. Destiny was doing his usual thing of rapid-firing facts and opinions, Peterson was hyper emotional, esp when they got to the climate change and vaccine stuff.
@@OhWellWhatTheHell1There was crazy emotion flowing from them both of them- they just show it so differently. It was very interesting to watch!
@@OhWellWhatTheHell1 I don't know how many Russian bots are on this thread. Didn't Jordan Peterson go to Moscow for "detox"?
Yeah! I miss debates. CZcams was full of them 6-7 years back!
Please consider a second long-form discussion! The chemistry was through the roof, and there is no better combination of people so politically opposed while remaining a) intellectually respectable, b) clear in expression, and c) civil in conduct.
The unique productivity here would be a gift to the world if you started a podcast together.
"Destiny" is intellectually dishonest. He either plays the contrarian fukhed or is an actual dumass
Definately agree, 2 hours was too short!
Respectable? Destiny is a smug half brain who argues in bad faith. When Jordan calls him out on his worldview and asks him to defend it, Destiny can only scoff and say, “Well what’s your big brain plan?” Destiny doesn’t have the intellectual rigor to even be in the same room, and certainly not debating.
hahaha agreed
absolutely agreed
I really enjoyed this debate. Thank you both.
You know Jordan’s about to cook when he sits up straight and starts moving his hands😂
I applaud both for this conversation. It got heated and yet remained cordial with no personal attacks. Very well done. We need more of this
Destiny was too hasty to conclude that there were predictions by the conservatives about the side effects of the vaccines of which none of the predictions came through. There were actually side effects, although it might not have been pronounced as expected.
I agree. Things have gotten so bad I can't even talk to my best friend about politics it's sad
Which is odd , since Destiny usually leans on personal attacks in debate
Got heated because JP yelled at someone half his age that he doesn't TRUST PEOPLE THAT USE FORCE when that wasn't even the argument in the first place 😂
@@jizim8947do more listening than talking. Also take notes. But Destiny is running laps around JP here. Destiny said we live in different worlds with different facts and that more people should be present in the same space. JP ignored that because he was too busy to yell.
I wish I had professors like Jordan when I was in school
Earlier version of Jordan, yes.
I KNOW. It'd be a DREAM😊
A professor who get's mad when you disagree with him? No thanks
Hes just another stock standard right wing talking head...he just seems smarter.
@@simonfredheim9581 lol great point
Did this guy try and say that progressives are opposed to large, centralized government?! That's the basic idea of progressivism
The concept of progressive thought is that of Unitarian and the government shifting capital to those who the government determines who could use it more. It's not freaking progressive. It's regressive
Incredible discussion. When can we get a round 2?
Get this to the top
Why? To get more:
Peterson: here is hard data
Destiny: yeah but I feel like....
?
@@zlkanglwrth2776 Peterson did this just as much as Destiny
@@Kirito_2016 absolutely.
And his attempt to be full-on anti-vaxxxxer was cringe. Starts with some vaccines might be safe. Then they are safe, but just too many at once. Then it’s just the mRNA that scientifically bad. Then it’s just distrust because of coercion, but the vaccines themselves weren’t the problem.
It wasn't that MRNA is/was bad, just that it wasn't tested enough
This needed to be 3x longer! IMO. It was extremely satisfying to see this conversation happen. Thank you to both Dr Peterson and Destiny. ❤
Thank God it wasn't. Peterson really just talks a lot and could benefit from becoming more concise. Maybe you are a Peterson fan, and it wasn't as noticeable, but coming from Destiny's audience, it made many parts tough to listen to
@joesecord3066 i am a regular destiny viewer and i generally disagree with you. The only times i feel like jordan needs to speed it up is when it is religious, due to my lack of interest.
IKR! Now I want Daily Wire+
@@joesecord3066I really enjoyed Peterson. Although he got a little heated, it was coool to see him actually argue against destiny on shit that conservatives run away from when on destiny’s stream.
Really really enjoyable.
@@joesecord3066
Destiny viewer here. I enjoyed. Acting like destiny fans are used to higher discussion is a joke.
This is core destiny.
Destiny gets his info from MSNBC and CNN.
As an ex con and a trained Criminologist that Destiny makes my spider sense tingle - and not in a good way....and over the years I have meet loads of really smart "Wrong-uns."
How long did you wait for this interview?
Me: 84 years....
I was born 87 years ago. For 65 years I have ruled as Tamriels emperor. But for all these years, I have never been the ruler of my own dreams
For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Corinthians 5:1
It was worth the wait tho haha although more time is needed
Nice Ace Ventura reference 👌
@@JoshC-End-Abortion-Fear-God Isaiah 45:6-7
“I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Thank you for having Ms. Boncinelli on the show. I always appreciate when two people on opposite sides of the autism spectrum can have a civil debate
I’m forever now describing the variation in autism as the Peterson end and the Destiny end. Golden observation
Lmaoo well done
I don’t understand. Is this your attempt at being funny?
In the brilliant words of Mrs Candace Owens to destiny “aren’t you too old to be acting and thinking the way you do?”
Opposite sides of the spectrum, and opposite sexes
That said, it was unique to listen to this spirited debate. Truely delightful to hear both participants passion and perspectives.
Very good debate/conversation! Very opposing points, lots of passion, and both came to the table with valid data. But zero attacks on each other's character. Could listen to another 2 hours of these 2. ❤
The comment section on this alone shows that this was a huge W for both parties involved.
Exactly
Cause they showed humility to agree with each other's good point
Both made good arguments, presented good information, didn't resort to personal attacks. All in all, a good discussion. Tempers got a bit heated tho. Peterson could do with a little less shouting and interrupting. Which surprised me, that's very unlike him. Normally he's very calm and collected in a discussion.
Anybody who thinks "destiny" represented himself well here needs to stop drinking soy lattes. It's hard to watch, or listen to such a sad, indoctrinated, demoralized and effeminate man for this long. If you think he made good points, you need to change yourself fundamentally to become a man. Peterson is also not the way. He merely points in the faint direction of the way.
@@xander9460yes that surprised me, but having a bit of emotion can be interesting for those of us watching.
All this conversation proved is you two should have 1,000 more. You both welcome disagreement and can overcome the generational gap. When’s the next episode…
Most debates would benefit from multiple rounds of long form discussion. Unless your intent is to "win." Often times a chunk of the debate is just understanding what the other person is saying.
It's pretty rare to have two people in a room who understand this concept. Hopefully we get more. Took like multiple years to make this convo happen though@@thorinhannahs4614
What info from "Destiny" was accurate and not liberal talking points?
@@tedmonster66 So if you're making the claim all his info was incorrect, the onus is on you to provide the evidence, maybe show us something to tell us what was incorrect. Though also something being a talking point doesn't mean the info isn't inaccurate, I especially for talking points from the left, who prefer to actually reference scientists rather than whatever slop comes out of trumps mouth/twitter that morning.
You had me until you said especially talking points from the left. That is absurd. Both sides routinely speak out their back end with no sources or research to back them up. Watch any politician on the left talk about firearms for an easy example. They have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. It's a massive err to think your side is more intellectual than the other side. Both sides have roughly the same proportion of smart intellectuals to dumb follow the narrative types because that distribution exists in the human species. One side doesn't draw more than the other. @@redeyesb.dragonite8562
I have waited years to maybe finally see this two talk. And i am not dissapointed.
This is so good!!
Thank you for having Destiny on.
It's true you had presence
Facts. Big fan of him and JP.
I wish the left and right could have more respectful yet passionate debates like this.
The problem is there’s money to be made and a cult of personality to be built by polarizing.
Each side has people of different levels of intellect, discussion and argument skillsets, and varying motivations. I enjoy when these people get matched up and talk are the best things to listen to.
Jordan, while not arguing in good faith, is at the bare minimum being respectful to destiny. Every argument I've ever been in with a conservative has devolved into ad hominem attacks, mistaking feelings for facts, or putting up a literal wall between them and simply opening a dictionary or googling a concept they don't understand. I too would love for more discussions like this but Trumps own personal unscrupulous and disrespectful behavior is inspiring the right to act likewise
@@personface108…..that’s exactly what Liberals do.
Call names(Nazis is the go to)
Big thing is that you can’t critique any other race, because that’s….. .
@@personface108 ….. I was reading your obviously false words & wondering when the TDS would come into play..
You nailed it🫡
After this 2 hours, Peterson's core argument always goes back to use of force is bad under any circumstance. He had a hard time actually countering Destiny with reasoning and it was hard to take much of what he said seriously.
@qwerty37381 I don't know what Destiny's life has to do with arguments made in this video.
It's difficult and would be too time-consuming to put all my thoughts down on the 2 hours, but since you didn't bring up a specific point explaining your disagreement, I'll just say the vaccine talk was the most exemplary of where it was hard for me to take Peterson seriously.
I like Jordan and consider myself a fan of his work but some of his fans pretend his undeniable authority in the field psychology somehow extends to politics.
Great talk between Mr. Peterson and Mr. Morelli
No.
😂
@@nft3 Heh I am so cool by writing short edgy responses that are open to diverse interpretation
that's Mr. Motormouth Morelly for you.
@@comicsans6487 no it's Mr. Moronelli
this is my jake paul vs mike tyson
🤌
I’m so excited I’m just sitting in my car
Can't tell who's who
So Mike Tyson wins?
😂😂
TWO GREAT MINDS... I LOVED THIS DEBATE... THE BEST I'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME. THANK YOU GUYS
Such enjoyable debate+
Destiny really looked happy to be there and discuss with JP. I think it shows a lot of respect. And vice versa.
I've been following Destiny for quite a long time at this point, this had to have been his best conversation in years. JBP's a fantastic speaker.
yeah because it was one of his more easy discussions. ran rings around JP. I find JP to keep letting emotions interfere with his thought. he speaks on things he knows nothing about. Wish he would make his bed and make a proper comeback on topics he is well versed in. constantly out of his depth.
@squadedits-ht3tr that's missing the point entirely. They weren't there to "win". If you think that this talk is wasted on you.
@@stysner4580 i dont think you understand how quotes work haha. i never said win, snowflake.
@@stysner4580 learn how quotes work lol. just another over emotional JP stan
This kinda feels like a professor talking to one of the smart students in class and I’m really the shop class guy watching from the window.
LMAO
You give destiny a lot of credit calling him a smart student.
He isn't. He just has a good memory and has read the first 3 results of many Google searches that already agree with what he thinks.
thats one of the more popular definitions of a smart student.@@KurNorock
@@KurNorock my guess is you should be there with Jordan Peterson instead of Destiny? nope you'll still be just a loser throwing shade at him from a youtube comment section, whoops!
you clearly haven't watched a single stream@@KurNorock
I hope Destiny and Dr. Peterson get to have another conversation. It felt like they complemented each other in interesting ways.
What a solid debate. Glad both let each other formulate ideas with Fred back from both.. some ideas i agreed with, some ideas i didn't.. i would say that constitutes a proper debate
This was actually one of the most interesting and dynamic debates either of the participants have engaged in quite some time. Kudos to both Dr. Peterson and Destiny for both giving as good as they got.
Right? I did not expect this level of conversation between a blue haired gamer and an exiled Psychology Professor.
Exiled? You mean thrown out of the Canadian Cult? Because that's exactly what happened.@@SubvertTheState
this was amazing
It's a gem amongst the debates, I hope it will go viral.
I think "thrown out" and exiled can mean the same thing lol@@mikesmith9501