Media Converter switch your Dac to Fibre optic
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2023
- Reduce noise on your internet line to your Dac with a inexpensive Fibre optic internet converter.
Some Dacs are resilient to internet cable noise but not all are. Don't take a chance, this cheap converter will do the same trick as some selling for thousands of $$$
Pair 2 Pack Single-Mode Fiber to Ethernet Media Converter amzn.to/41COkqR
The one I am using but need separate 2x SFP :
amzn.to/3J4hCYp
SFP: amzn.to/3kEcPU1
Also forgot to mention you need a Cable make sure to order a LC to LC the link may take you to a LC To SC
Unless you get different SFP’s : amzn.to/3YbKF0y
Router with SFP : amzn.to/41P8uhN
IFI power supply : amzn.to/3lFTW3q
Cheap but great Ebay regulator: ebay.us/XyzneZ
Canadian / EU Link:
Pair 2 Pack Single-Mode Fiber to Ethernet Media Converter
amzn.to/3J260VM
The one I am using but need separate SFP :
amzn.to/41COkqR
SFP: amzn.to/41B2Mjj
IFI power supply amzn.to/3IqVQ0o
Router with SFP : amzn.to/3y8qUMs
Also forgot to mention you need Cable : amzn.to/3kChjdN
How to measure power supply ripple down to 1uv • How to measure power s... - Jak na to + styl
Many thanks for the clear instructions and the links on exactly what hardware to buy. I have yet to get a good power supply for the clean side of this setup but already
I can hear an improvement. The soundstage is just bigger all around and more three dimensional coming out of my Sonore ethernet to USB converter.
I had one in my system for 3 months its been a fantastic upgrade to my streaming
Great upgrade 🎉, I use it for 2 years ,cheap and a fantastic upgrade !
Yep, this works, and then put a good switch on the end, and things really clear and light up. The most obvious improvement is in the video stream. Everyone thought I bought a new TV, the PQ improvement was that obvious. Now think what it will do with your streaming music. To power the fiberoptic box I also used an LHY linear power supply to further clean up the noisy electricity.
Great tip. I'm trying it. I have a better power supply on order. It should come tomorrow. It definitely doesn't sound as big or as detailed as my high end ethernet cables. I think thats a function of the wall wart on that tp link Media converter. I can hear the lower noise and I want better sound out of my streaming and hope this will push it. 🤞 I'll keep you posted!
inside the media converter there is a dc-dc converter to reduce the voltage at the input to the roughly 3V required by the electronic... my experience, as I'm using the same trick, is to supply a voltage well below the nominal spec (that on the label), I'm around 6V at the input (I use a linear regulated DIY unit with adjustable output)... that will GREATLY reduce the internal ectrical noise from the dc-dc with immediate, and not small, benefit for the sound quality
That is great, I bypassed the dc to dc converter on mine and now I feed it 3.3v
@@Gabster1 well done! are you going to place a video about that in your channel? would be very interesting for many of your follower ;)
This to me seems to be a very good visual explanation of Galvanic isolation. Thank you
Ethernet is already galvanically isolated! Each connector has a transformer inside
shhhhhh, you'll blow the whole racket!@@Jinguapingi
Great info !
It’d be interesting to compare this to iFi Audio NEO Stream
As understand there’s several types of connections in fiberglass can you describe this?
I am guessing, the fiber optic cable doesn't necessarily has to be two ways right? It's just gonna transmit data from one converter to another.
Excellente vidéo encore une fois! We need a video on how to build that $6 eBay regulator 🙌
I just posted it :) 🙂
Wow c'était vite ça!! Chapeau 🎉
@@hotstuff3243 Merci mon ami
Yes please!
What good is the optical cable if you are going to use poor LAN cables?
Should also put a better clock on this. Let it work on 3.3V via lifo4 batterie plus power regulator. Works
Give it a try.
I did exactly this, though using TrendNet gear. For a little more cost I used 4-port switches that also had the SPF slot. My main switch that is connected to my router is an older 3Com managed switch that has four SFP slots, so I was fortunate to have that capability already.
I bought inexpensive 5-volt power supplies for the switches. The improvement in digital audio from implementing the fibre was not subtle and I think it improved my video (4K) as well. And I have fibre Internet service to start with.
I'm not sure if I agree with you on this. The streamed file looks the same if it's downloaded on fiber optics, ethernet or even coax. A good streamer with a good buffer should make absolutely no difference.
I just saw you use single mode
Thank you, man. You freed my soundstage. The borders dissapeared. Everything became more effortless.
How would a FMC setup compare, technically and practically, to an iFi iSilencer? They both seem to filter the noise out, however, 1 has 2 boxes and 2 power supplies. Whereas the other (iFi) is just a dongle. Both are priced roughly similarly. Perhaps you need 1 of the 2 or perhaps both. Any thoughts/experience?
Maybe a noob question: why not install a 1/10 gbe fiber card in your pc and run a fiber to the dac?
Gabster - I like your attention to videos and how you present material. I too am going to insert fiber between my switch and the streamer (custom fanless PC, with separate 5v LPS driving a JCAT USB card). What have you noticed when the fiber was inserted into the network path? Darker background/quieter?
It all depends on how noisy it was to begin with some hear some differences some do not
Do not expect a huge difference but each small improvement adds up at the end.
What if my DAC/streamer has several optical female connectors? Do I need the second converter box? I don't think so but I'd like to get your opinion. This would eliminate the second short cable and the second media box.
If it has a sfp network slot ( not to confuse it with a toslink input) then no you just connect to it. Rare for a Dac to have sfp slot I know a couple that do but most don’t just toslink which is not the same.
Gabster I would love to see these compared to the pricey DDC I see many "audiophile" DCC running aat $500-600.I was thinkingn maybe about a cheap (read $100) SMSLbut I am not aure that these do more than what you have here.
As far as I understand DDC is usually a re-clocker and buffer. A different problem IMHO.
DDC is on the output, this is for the input
Thanks, Gab! When I shop for those, there is two options. Single mode or multi mode. Any preference?
Yes I am using single mode meaning 2 fibre cables, you can use BIDI single cable for both directions but not worth the price difference
@@Gabster1 thanks
Single mode and multi mode refer to the construction of the strand of fibre. Single mode has a much smaller core allowing extremely high bandwidth while multi mode has a larger core making it more optically durable and forgiving in LAN situations. If your span is
@@Gabster1 Hi Gabster, I'm a bit confused, you say you use single mode cables but the cables you link above are multi mode. Have I got that right?
So, if I want to do the opposite (fiber to ethernet for home wifi), I'll need 2 of those or 1?
Just 1
Hi. Do i need the sfp LX or SX ?
Thanks
SX
I used this one
amzn.to/49Wyfj9
Not to show my inexperience with these things, but why did your link to an optical cable show a LC to SC cable when both converters that you show in the video have LC connectors? Am I missing something (or just less experienced that you expected)? Should I have ordered an LC to LC cable?
Could you say exactly what optical cable type to use between media converters?
Yes in my case they should be both LC so LC to LC sometimes when a item is sold out, Amazon reverts to a similar item in this case not a great one
I will fix the link in a couple days when I am close to my computer again. For now I will add a caution note.
Hi
So, why going through a switch, especially if my router supports spf out..
?????
Thanks :)
No need then that is great just take your SPF from your router but you will need 1 module to convert it back close to your Dac as most Dacs do not accept SPF
I see, thanks.
By the way.... it's also possible to go from a rauter directly into a first converter and from there go optic to the second.
I'm just trying to understand the importance of a switch when it comes to improving sound quality.
Thanks again :)
@@ilanspiro1645 Yes the main Idea is to carry the long distance optically so not to pickup noise on the way and isolate from the main noisy router circuit.
Don't expect huge changes in sound unless you have a very noisy router but every bit adds up at the end
Thanks
Yeah..i know, everything counts in the end;)
Why call it a media converter? It is purely transporting TCP/IP packets from Ethernet to Fiber. Why add extra connections in your chain?
ya just the iFi iPower-X the higher grade psu on Wi-Fi router already can hear the improvement.
Is the fiber to Ethernet converter 9V ?
Yes the TP-Link is 9v
Mine is rigged to take 3.3v but that is a different story.
@@Gabster1 lol. That's above my paygrade
Works even better with 2 Cisco 2960 or Meraki 220 switches that you can get for cheap off ebay, because they have really good 25mhz clocks in them. I got some really good Startech SFP's to futher improve the sound. Modded both switches to use a LPS, added a LC filter and removed the POE and switch mode power supplies. BIG improvement in my streaming.
I bought a Cisco nexus 9372tx switch, which is an enterprise switch. Was 45k new in 2013. Can get now for under a grand. Holy S##T! This thing pure stock module power switch mode supplies and all. WOW. Absolutely blew the 2960's (non gigabet blue version and white gigabit version) and Cisco catalyst 3560CX (which has better internals and cpu/ram than the Meraki 220)
out of the WATER!!!!
I did learn how to basically code/program Cisco switches to make it even better. Basically used chatgpt to learn a new language and setup Qos, increased the MTU buffer to max 9216 packet size which also make a huge difference. These changes can be done on your switches and I highly recommend you learn how. Use chatgpt. I also suggest trying these 9000 series Cisco catalyst switches.... You will be shocked.
For reference the miraki does forwarding packets 14 million packets thruput max per second, the 9372tx does 1 billion max per second. The Meraki has 128mb of ram, the nexus 16gb ram. The cpu of thr Meraki is a single core 800mhz arm processor. The nexus quad core 2.5ghz. Packet buffer size max 1.5mb on the Meraki vs 25mb for the nexus.
This makes a hugeeeeeeeee difference. Even the audiophile switches use these cheaper switches and mod the clock and power supply but your still using thr same hardware I noted above. It's like a pc from 1997 vs 2020 here. Massive difference.
The nexus uses a custom crystal for clock, does 50 nano second timing. High end ocxo clocks do 15-50 nano seconds per seocndtdepending on the crystal tolerances. Tcxo, which is FAR more common higher end clocks do 1000ns. Standard switch crystals do like 3-4ms clocking, about 40x slower than the nexus.
Have I convinced you yet, lol? I ordered an ntp clock to use with it that uses GPS and ocxo for clocking which is better than any high end oxco alone and I'll get the nexus to 15ns timing and have the crazy hardware. All for about $1000 out the door. The module switch mode power supplies are also very good with huge capacitor banks so ripple current (aka noise in power supplies) is very low. They use legit transformers and massive amounts of capacitance on the output, better than most mid grade linear power supplies. I might rebuild the power supply to even take it further using higher end caps.
@@badd99 That sounds awesome. Do you get any fan noise from the nexus? Does it run hot if only hooked to streamer?
@@badd99 Do you have it fiber cascaded or just ethernet in and out?
Great idea Pete quality switches and sfp’s are even better for sure specially better clocks
Just use an amplifier with built-in DAC .
No problem when you have some cables run along your HDMI cable. It is digital data, it ignores the interference
Built in Dacs are usually of poor quality, especially if you are referring to an AV receiver. This is why most audiophiles run an external Dac and sometimes even use a separate DDC for jitter reduction. Only makes a difference if your system is revealing enough 👌
@@mikelanier5617 _Built in Dacs are usually of poor quality,_ where do you get that wrong info? And then the Jitter story OMG :-( If Jitter would exists which with a good source is not the case the most DAC s have all a high tolerance to clock jitter
@M Goudsmits 金马桥 Please do more research before criticizing professionals like myself with decades of research and experience in this industry. Use Google and CZcams to educate yourself on DAC conversion types (Delta sigma, R2R and Multibit) plus read the consensus on Femto based clocks, OCXO master clocks, Word clocks and general use examples of external clocks for jitter reduction, and how these designs are implemented. This video literally discusses using an external switch to reduce noise and jitter. This is not "wrong info," as you stated, as it is well documented from digital designers from all parts of the globe working for various manufacturers..."OMG".. I try to educate others, and you oddly intend to correct the experts while not even grasping the original concept. My cheapest Dac is a Schiit Modi 3+ ($150, used on my patio system), and even it outperforms my Denon AVR's internal Dac. The RME Dac ($1250) is a huge upgrade as well, and my Gustard R26 R2R Dac ($1650) is just on a whole new level and is now my reference on my main system. Even with this, I will be buying the matching Gustard external DDC and using an i2s connection. I use an integrated tube amplifier in my reference system, and yes, the tubes make a difference too, and they have been upgraded to 1950s nos versions. If you can't hear these differences, then your system is not at a level to reveal the micro-dynamics associated with such upgrades. The man literally made the video about the reasoning behind using more than just a Cat 5 direct from a cheap router. Good luck with your system and do some homework, please 🙏
@@mikelanier5617 Please do not insult my intelligence by throwing some irrelevant (to audio) terminology around! It does not impress me at all.
Also, please do not lie ! you claim _This video literally discusses .......reduce noise and jitter This is not "wrong info," as you stated,_ I did not state anything with regard to this video as wrong info.
I used "wrong info" with regard to your unfounded claim _Built in Dacs are usually of poor quality_
I know what the video is about, and I address his claim that a cable running next to other cables might pick up interference and other shit , And there I said it is not a problem for digital data!
And please do not say you can hear certain things at your or mine age, we may be happy to hear anything above 15kHz.
I knew the homework was going to be tough for you, considering the reading comprehension level and your lack of basic knowledge regarding digital conversion . Everything I said was directly audio related, and you can't grasp it, I'm sorry. Now, the fact you admit you can't hear above 15k (yes I can) explains why you think none of this matters. Jitter reduction is very important to anyone who takes this seriously and is not done well at all with cost conscious, built in Dacs. You probably think external linear power supplies are useless, too, since the devices have one built-in already, so that is good enough for you?? Tried to help you understand, but you know best. I get it now that you think an AVR includes a world-class DAC and that digital cables can't be affected by other radiated EMI and RFI sources. Since I'm dying soon, I need to enjoy my time left while helping those with an open mind who appreciate the knowledge rather than debating with someone on CZcams who is too stubborn to read a few white papers on the subject matter at hand. I'm building 3 isolation platforms today. Even though the equipment came with factory supplied footers, I must be nuts to think this tightens up bass and improves detail retrieval. I and thousands of others are nuts evidently according to your logic. Enjoy your music and what time you have left, I know I will !
So why is this needed? If copper Ethernet is working, it's working. It's a digital signal, and noise can only stop it from working, it cannot degrade the digital data. If a burst of noise hashes a couple packets, the receiving end just asks for them to be retransmitted. And it happens so fast it's extremely rare that your DAC buffer has the chance to empty. Don't get me wrong.. I love fiber for it's speed and reliability. It's just not needed for the typical home run.
This is simply not true. Your dac buffer is also very small and its about packet timing, not the loss of packets. Tcp protocol is excellent at not loosing packets the the ms delay in timing which is what jitter is masks a big difference.
I have tried all of this stuff, Cisco 2960 LPS on these tp link ect ect and the best BY FAR sound was from an enterprise Cisco server switch 9000 series that was 45k new in 2013... Can be had now days for 600-800. Stock form these are Jesus level.... They are loud devices so you need to run the cable from this to your gear and put this in another room but holy S##T
Wile most dacs are resilient it is also possible that noise over the cat line will transfer to the clocks, opamp or output section. Not about packets specially wired should be no packet loss as you said they get retransmitted.
Many devices use optical isolation to reduce noise as it has been effective for years. Not really a debate if you have any experience with electrical noise isolation. I had zero noise at my last house, and now I am implementing different filtering techniques to deal with my new electrical supply, which is very noisy. All noise disappears when powered from a DC battery inverter/generator and sounds great for now. Ferrite chokes can do wonders too!
@@mikelanier5617 yes this is true I have 4 dedicated 8 gauge lines on ps audio outlets and a ps audio powerplant. I know power. Trust me - I didn't want to believe it. Fiber optical isolation devices, which I also use but only after the modem, have a built in clock. Sfp models require power and their conversion and jitter specs depending on power. They also have internal clocks... Not all modules are the same. They have clocks of different types, too.
To say you have no noise is also poor form. I have dedicated 8 gauge lines with high end outlets all on seperate grounding rods and then a ps audio powerplant that regenerates new ac off dc and even I still have noise! Just because you can't hear it, doesn't mean it's not there. The more I've learned and tried things the more I've realized we don't know a heck of a lot more that we do know, myself definitely included.
When your talking top tier audio there are so many variables. You never can get rid of any of the problems.
I use chokes on certain things too, but they also have a trade off and will definitely make things worse if used in the wrong place.
Another cheap really good tip for you is buy a roll of Emi tape on Amazon for $20 and put a 2" piece on the ends of all your analog cables rca/xlr /speaker /ethernet cables. Do not put on anything that has has AC Power like Power plugs or transformers. You will get a substantial sound improvement if you have a high end system.
@badd99 Cool story bro. 😎 Before retirement, my client list included little customers like NASA, DOD, US Military, Lockheed-Martin, GE, BAE Systems, corporate and celebrity clients, as well as several classified designs and installations. So, I appreciate that you determined dedicated AC lines are important, they are. I ironically do know just a wee bit about this and glad you were educating me on "poor form" because I said that I had no noise. What odd behavior to act like I would lie about unwanted noise? Sure my oscilloscope would show me the inaudible noise associated with normal AC, but my point stands and I heard no noise in my last system due to several isolation techniques and chokes where appropriate on power cords. I have noise issues now because my RV is in a campground with improper earth grounding while using undersized non-twisted feeder wires to the pedestal. After discussion with the owners and my use of a Fluke meter, they have hired an electrician to rewire the entire campground. RV was more challenging than my house, but diagnosed and scheduled for resolution. I'm old, but I haven't forgot decades of A/V, automation control design, and integration experience. Feel free to help others with offensive remarks said without merit while knowing nothing of their own experience. Kinda cute hearing you say "trust me..I KNOW power" from a consumer keyboard warrior..lol ✌️
Is this satire? April 1st is still nearly a month away. Are users who have switched to this done so because they are getting dropped packets and therefore perhaps hearing artifacts? Is the interest in this because there are still some people that falsely think digital is really analogue? Facts aside, this is a hobby and we audiophiles love to have fun and tweak our systems.
audiophool bs.