Reaction, Star Trek: TNG, 4x12, The Wounded, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! S4Ep12
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2021
- This season we have really got to know more of the enterprise team and these last few episodes we get to look into the past of O'Brien
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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This episode is the beginning of the amazing development of Miles O’Brien as a truly legendary character.
He's awesome
He already pulled off an instant-promotion-worthy maneuver in the climax here haha. Beam through the shields AND talk his crazed former Captain down? Dude deserves his own command!
The episode takes on even more texture when you know Bob Gunton who played Captain Maxwell, himself is a Bronze-Star awarded combat veteran of the Vietnam War. A lot of 90's Star Trek is allusions of the politics of the last previous few decades, as Star Trek always is at it's best.
Woo, I thought I had already read all the trivia about this episode, thank you for adding more! I feel like this one flies under the radar a lot but I sort of rediscovered it 5 years ago and it's become one of my absolute favorites.
This is the effective birth of Deep Space Nine. An essential DS9 episode before it existed. Wow.
lol, so true.
The only thing missing is O'Brien being physically tortured.
@@theevilascotcompany9255 Isn't this the one where he tries Keiko's breakfast? :P
If so, honestly those "early marriage scenes" were HILARIOUSLY awkward. Apparently cohabitation before marriage isn't done in the future.
This is why Bob Gunton is one of the best character actors in the business. From Captain Maxwell to Warden Norton in The Shawshank Redemption... brilliant.
And he's still being obtuse
He's great
He was even used as a CGI body double for the late Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters: Afterlife.
At the end of "The Minstrel Boy" O'Brien solos on the last line: "One faithful harp shall praise thee."
I think that this is symbolic of O'Brien being the one voice that continues to see the good side of Maxwell in spite of what else he has done.
One of the things that stands out to me about this story is how this man, who’s not only suffering from deep-seated PTSD but is also in a position of threat and significant danger to both so many others, his own subordinates, and himself, was talked down by O’Brien through essentially pausing and giving him the empathy O’Brien both saw his former commanding officer needing as well as recognizing what he himself needed to come to terms with. And he gave it to him, not because Maxwell was necessarily right (not in violating the treaty that his duty required him to uphold or killing people from a power the Federation was now at a fragile peace with, however deceptive and manipulative that power may be), not because Maxwell necessarily deserved it esp. after his actions, but because O’Brien recognized it was the shortest path to stopping further bloodshed and trying to salvage what was left of the man he respected.
Marc Alaimo!!! I love his work.
This is such a crucial episode in the whole of Trek. As others have said, this is the first bit of set-up for the spin-off “Deep Space Nine”. Even the music at the end is part of what becomes the DS9 theme. But I also love the massive look into O’Brien’s backstory. By this point, he’s obviously just as important as the regulars. That’s such a great line, “It’s not you I hate, Cardassian. I hate what I became BECAUSE of you!”👏
Semi-unfortunately, it reminds me of the line from _Mean Girls_ - "I don't hate you because you're fat, you're fat because I hate you" :P But, still a great line haha. I just like some of his other scenes better. The "Minstrel Boy" scene is gorgeous.
the best part of the episode for me is that Maxwell wasnt wrong about the Cardassian intentions, just wrong with the way he went about dealing with it
It’s very much the difference at of a warrior and a diplomat. Maxwell was a decorated warrior he knew how his enemy thought and could see through their deception. In the war his actions would have saved lives and been rewarded. His only problem was they weren’t at war and it was the time of diplomats he’d seen to much lost to much to ever be able to sit back and watch the enemy regroup and start it all over again. DS9 proves him even more right but from Picardy side he knows all these things but he also knows that if there’s ever going to be any hope that their will be lasting peace they have to give peace time to prove that it is the best for both sides.
Yeah.. In spite of subspace communication, Starfleet vessels are largely on their own. Thus Starfleet captains have fairly broad discretionary powers, in terms of making first contact with new civilizations, or even representing the UFP when things like negotiating peace treaties are involved and more trained specialists and ambassadors aren’t available.
Some tasks may not be their areas of expertise yet they’re still expected to be able to deal with a wide range of challenges based on their best information and judgment in a situation. This includes dealing with delicate political situations, precisely like this.
Maxwell likely should have contacted Starfleet to report his suspicions and findings, and O’Brien implied he’s a man who’s actually disciplined enough to know his duty, even in spite of his own deep personal loss and PTSD. But somehow he was still too in the grips of it to not step over the line.
And, for this time, it was an intriguing complication that the Cardassians really were up to no good as Picard was capable of discerning. The Cardassians really were a kind of replacement for the Romulans in ways that were more interesting.
Actually, I thought that revalation was kind of weak. I think it would have been stronger if Maxwell had been shown to completely wrong in his suspicions
@@redcardinalist I think without having Picard as a counterbalance, Maxwell being completely wrong would work best as a post DS9 story where the Cardassians and more importantly their government are genuinely trying to be better, a problem frequently seen with the federation is that they are willing to let a lot slide to keep the peace and having Maxwell be right in this instance should serve an important message to Starfleet that just because you want peace doesn't mean the other guy does and you shouldn't let your guard down to the extent that they do
This was an excellent introduction to the Cardassians and it was great that O'Brien played such a big part in it! Colm Meany was awesome!
"We do not make surprise attacks on manned outposts."
That's exactly what Maxwell was accused of doing at the start of the episode.
When Picard turns his chair at the end, the music kinda sounds like the start of DS9.
"Never turn your back on a man you fear or respect."
I think Picard had some premonitions of the future.
Around this time, a friend and I began a joke quip between each other: "How much Brien?" *unison "Miles O'Brien!"
This went on for years.
Peak Picard. I still get chills when he threatens to tow the Phoenix back to Starbase in disgrace.
Even that dead stare, "We'll be watching.", then turns his back on the Cardassian. Discussion over
More chills!
and this is why my core management philosophy for decades was, "What would Picard do?". It helped guide me though many scrapes
"There ... are ... four ... lights!!!"
"Sir, this is a Wendy's."
I feel like this episode was the point where they started to lay the groundwork for "Deep Space Nine",
that would be because that is what was happening. The cardasian captain went on to play Ghul Dukat.
@@paulhewes7333 this was also the first year the show ran after Roddenberry's death, and could finally begin to break away from the perfect utopia dream, and the franchise began to recognize their are other societies outside of the federation, that doesnt necessarily value the same things as the federation and that there is still in fact great conflict in space. Season 4 is also the beginning of the death of the "golden era of peace" for the federation
he played a few different Characters throughout the show
@@dustinherk8124 just one thing : Section 31
@@orvoloco8261 from a show running standpoint, section 31 doesnt exist yet, but you can still see the death of the golden era starting in this season. gets WAAAY worse, just with DRUMHEAD in just a few episodes.
Picard played it well with the hard stare at the end. He didn't Chamberlain the Cardassians.
The scene with Picard and Maxwell in the ready room is easily one of the top five best-acted scenes of the entire series.
Just coldly tearing down an illogical, reactionary argument. "WHO is under threat? WHY must we rush into war at this moment? WHERE is your evidence?" Maxwell SOUNDS convincing if the Cardassians are untrustworthy recent and future enemies - WHICH THEY ARE - yet it's a complete no sell for Picard. Man of principle.
Colm Meanie is such a wonderful actor
He's not the Captain of the Flagship of the Federation for nothing! Great episode.
This episode reminded me of a famous line from novelist Josephine Hart: "All damaged people are dangerous. Survival makes them so."
'Why?'
"Because they have no pity. They know what others can survive, as they did."
For Katrina: the Cardassians, introducted here, aren't one of the countless "aliens-of-the-week" of Star Trek. They will be among of the main antagonists of the Federation across the remaining run of TNG and especially in the Deep Space Nine series.
September 8th is the 55th birthday of "STAR TREK". Maybe You could then make a reaction video for the "STAR TREK" pilot "The Cage"!?
The space battle as they watched Maxwell destroy the cardassian ship is surprisingly one of my favorite space battles ever. It was not flashy and exciting, it was tense and important.
Being angry for a long time could apply to the Picard and The Borg.
ADORE this episode! Bob Gunton (Captain Benjamin Maxwell) is such a great actor and he had yet another great performance here!
The return of Marc Alaimo as Gul Mace (and the quintessential Cardassian) is also amazing.
Picard's Big D energy was on display when he told the Cardassian hed be watching him and the turned his back on him like a boss💪
I always feel Kira immediately likes O'Brien because he feels this way about the Cardassians.
Garak, on the other hand...
@@marcziegenhain8420 Most people will say Quark but Garak was my favorite of the side characters in DS9. The actor playing him actually wrote a book I have been trying to get my hands on, wherein Garak writes letters to Bashir after the ending of DS9 telling him lies and truth, including about his time on Romulus when high ranking politicians just happened to die a lot lol
@@dxrebel Look, a lot of people like Quark, and deservedly so...but where do you get "most people" like him over Garak haha. Not exactly a unique stance to adore the mysterious and terrifyingly competent spy with a shady past, sneaky ways and a heart of gold :P Also Quark is a main character.
I agree with you on Kira and O'Brien. I feel like they should've connected really naturally, but didn't really do so very much other than that, uh "family connection"...
6:04 The Cardassians obviously underestimated the abilities of Captain Maxwell and his Nebula-Class starship "Phoenix", when they tried to stop him with a single warship.
Hate to say it this way, but this episode mainly is great for what it establishes for the future. The Cardassians, O'Brien's backstory, the Nebula class ship... all important to the later episodes of TNG and DS9.
Nebula class is my favorite class. And the Cardassians are such a great villain.
The seed kernel of Dukat! I didn't even remember this one, but it's so good.
This episode was great, in the end at least to me, Maxwell turns out to be kinda right about the cardassians.......when you get to Deep Space Nine you will see, especially during the Dominion War
On a side Note the Cardassian commander ot Gul, is the same actor who plays Gul Dukat in Deep space Nine ( Marc Alaimo )
This one brings me to tears, Maxwell wasn't wrong in his assessment, just his actions. I'm a veteran who got in trouble more than once for speaking the truth instead of what was politically correct so I feel for him. The tone of this episode is very much in line with DS9, the gray areas. The peace treaty ceded occupied planets and some colonists refused to evacuate their home-worlds. The Bajorans were another aspect, more on that later.
Actor Bob Gunton (Maxwell) was in "Demolition Man", "The Shawshank Redemption", 9 eps. of the Daredevil series, 31 eps. of "24", "Patch Adams" and lots more.
Marc Alaimo playing Gul Macet has a recurring role on DS9 and appears in 35 eps. (I thought it was a lot more, he leaves a big impression) he has a distinctive voice. He was also in 2 earlier TNG eps. and will appear in 1 more, all different characters. He was in the original "Total Recall" with Schwarzenegger, done loads of TV shows, lots of cop shows.
Was doing a rewatch of total recall a few weeks back in the new HD version and then realized it was Alaimo as the airport security captain. I never noticed before.
Starfleet will need a man like Maxwell years later, when special events begin in DS9. I always wanted to know what happene to him then. Was he put back in command?
When one has bean angry for a long time, it becomes comfortable like old leather. After a time you can not feel any other way.
Actually, it's "you can't remember feeling any other way".
This was one of my favorite episodes from TNG. I re-watched it over this last weekend and it still holds up so well. The scene at the end with Maxwell and O'Brien gets me every time.
Maxwell: I'm not going to win this one, am I, Chief?
O'Brien: No, sir.
Bob Gunton did a number of roles some of which were quite well known, including some notorious villainous roles, like Warden Norton in Shawshank Redemption around the same time as his TNG guest appearance. Younger viewers might know him as Leland Owlsley, the Kingpin’s mobster money man in the first season of the Netflix Daredevil series.
Third of the forth appearance of an actor named Marc Alaimo, the Cardassian Gul Macet. The Cardassians were created around his specific profile. He would later portray another Cardassian on Deep Space 9 named Gul Dukat.
Love at the end when Picard calls him out and then turns away from him. Like “get out.”
This episode is easily in my top 10 favorites
Hashtag Mouthchops.
That one Cardassian that ordered the drink used a regional dialect. He's not allowed out much anymore.
Must have learned it from the Bajora
It's a really good episode. Some PTSD, some setting things up and some some development of O'Brien
This episode is good on its own but watching it again after watching TNG and DS9 it really takes on new meaning. The introduction of the Cardassians, first mention of the Federation-Cardassian Border Wars, O'Brien's backstory, and how many in the Federation are very dissatisfied with the peace treaty that was signed with the Cardassians. A true must watch episode for any Trek fan.
Yes, even if the writers cannot always agree when the wars took place, that is (some inconsistencies, there)
The treaty is by this year, but the war was still going in 2362 (two years pre season 1) where O'Brien, presumably, was at Setlik III...
@@chrissonofpear1384 From what is said in the Star Trek wiki the Border Wars were on again off again conflict that ran from 2347 till 2367 with the bulk of the fighting happened in the 2350's. Aside from a handful of battles, the 2360's was when the diplomates were working on hammering out a treaty. Considering how important the treaty ending the war is you would think they would try to iron out the details more.
@@Wilahelm2 well, the thing is I find very little evidence for the 2347 date (one ambiguous line from TNG, contradicted by O'Brien's date of service entry as 2351, in DS9) So I tend to think the war started no earlier than 2355, possibly later. It likely did last at least 5 years, though, or with stop/start stages.
Spin off books have contradicted each other on the dates (7 Deadly Sins anthology, Force and Motion, the recent Picard and Janeway autobiographies, Pathways, etc)
@@chrissonofpear1384 Yeah, considering how key this conflict is to the backstories of so many characters they really need to hammer out the details. At this point all we can really say is that most of the heavy fighting happened in the 2350's and it wasn't really a formal war but a series of border skirmishes of varying intensity that fizzled out in the early 2360's as formal peace talks started to take place.
I really, really hope they watch DS9. The differences in the way it tells stories really makes me eager to see their thoughts on various plots and how they grow out of seeds planted here in TNG
DS9 had so many impactful episodes, especially regarding the true glory-less aspects of war, the aftermath of occupation and genocide, the way corruption and fascism sneak their way in with the biggest of smiles, etc. It's a favorite of mine for so many reasons.
In three more seasons of TNG, you’ll learn Maxwell was right to do what he did.
CliffsNotes version (minus spoilers): TNG shows humiliating pacifism at the cost of common sense, while DS9 shows the Greatest Generation having to clean up the mess.
Captain Jellico forever!
Love how Picard dismantles all the cliches that Maxwell offers to justify his actions in their first meeting.
Yeah, in a more simplistic story Maxwell could be the hero. I really like the route Trek writers took and it goes to show how badly those action movie justifications would apply to a real scenario.
Maxwell was owed his revenge, but he took it too far. Though he did end up being right about the spoonheads.
Bob Guntan, the guy that played Maxwell was a vietnam vet. This episode was less than 20 years after the war ended. I love this episode.
This is probably my favorite episode. I think we should have a lot of empathy and compassion for people like Maxwell. War does terrible things to people... And trauma like this perpetuates more violence and mistrust. There are so many soldiers who have returned home and unable to function normally ever again.... We lie to our brothers and sisters to kill for us, and many return to us broken.
I'm pretty happy that those sports helmets aren't seen again.
After widespread wedgies the Cardassian Empire did away with their dork-helmets.
13:15 This music reminds me of the DS9 theme. Anyone else?
Ah, always a pleasure to click on these. Thank you, ladies for delightful reactions to this great show!
Goody goody here we go with Cardassians!
Patrick Stewart wouldn't need to deal with the Phoenix until X-Men
That grey blob kind of episode is the template of DS9 episodes where you will see more of Mark Alaimo even if he plays a different Cardassian Gul. Their outfit will also change slightly and abandon the so called empty helmet piece. I guess you'll like that series, it has brillantly written compelling characters who grow a lot.
Picard played on thin ice there with both Maxwell and the Cardassians, using the former to independantly gain information on the latter in order to stealthily verify Maxwell's claims while preserving peace.
if anything a real peace strategist is as dangerous as a war strategist, Picard well demonstrated that.
I liked the mustache/beard shape dark thing around the chin of the Cardassians in this episode, they should have kept it, it gives them a more distinguished look I think. The other modifications that will happen later, are for the better however.
That's the kind of episode that could still work as a period piece between 18th century ship captains.
I love the Minstrel Boy, because of this episode.
Excellent episode. They used it to introduce the Cardassians for deep space 9. DS9 IS WELL WORTH WATCHING. Starts a bit slow but by season 3 - 7 it is really moving.
O’Brien really shines in this one. Picard too.
Also that Cardassian Gul becomes Gul Dukat in DS9
So much DS9 set up!! Bwahaha - Couldn't stop myself!
ooh one of my favourite episodes!!!
First showing of a Nebula class ship ;)
Everyone is the Hero of their own story! There are no real "good guys" or "bad guys" in the universe, just shades of gray!!
Well, at least 50 shades... 😏😏
It is a really tricky situation. What Picard said to Macet at the end may have actually made it worse. Now the Cardassians know they have to try harder to conceal their attempts to rebuild their military.
In the real world, yes . . . definitely. But within an episodic story such as this, it makes for a great dialog, and serves to bring Maxwell's vindication a bit closer.
I'm always relieved when anyone new to the series likes this one. It's become a personal favorite, but I'm still scarred by the time I heard two podcasters who I'd been enjoying but have a very casual way of dealing with episodes they don't like just sort of dismiss this one without even a thought. "So this was like, just crap right?" "Yeah, waste of time. Anyway let's banter about other things for an hour." There are some awkward scenes but I don't know how you can just see nothing of value in Picard and O'Brien here, even if you don't give a crap about Federation politics or the military chase... I couldn't even keep going with that podcast after that. Okay, I'll stop preaching to the choir haha.
There you go Katrina, you said last week that you thought it was nice to get more insight into the character of Chief O'Brien.
The differences in these Cardassians could be explained by them being from a different part of Cardassia. Different dialect, different colouring, facial hair.
Keeping up with the Cardassians
I miss the stupid helmet. It looked like they were wearing models of their space stations on their heads.
Captain Maxwell is pissed not because what happened to his family. But the fact that the war had not resolved anything. The Cardies feel the same way. They believe themselves a powerhouse in the quadrant but are here realizing they are barely one of the top 4. The war with the federation maybe over. But there is still fighting on the boarders. If there was a war here the federation would dominate. A Nebula class flat-out wrecked a Cardi warship. If it wasn't for the Borg, Maxwell may have gotten the end of the war. In six years, the whole quadrant is going to regret Picard not scanning that ship.
Really is a story about revenge but he was right all along
To this day, I associate the Kardashians with the shady alien race called the Cardassians.
Bob Gunton (Captain Maxwell) might be best remembered as the Warden from The Shawshank Redemption.
Who else is sorry we never saw Dukat wear that helmet....
(I know it's the same actor in this epsiode, but it's not the same, anyway... :) )
Marc Alaimo, who plays the lead Cardassian, goes on to play a different Cardassian in DS9 who is, I think, the most complex villain in all of Star Trek.
And this is why I'd never go to war - unless Picard was my captain, and then I'm in!
Omg, Katrina, your funbuns are so adorable here:)
Spoilery spoilers:
I know that the Bajorans aren't introduced for another season, but with the context of the occupation, I gotta say I'm kinda on Maxwell's side. I think the Federation are gutless cowards for not at the very least funding the Bajoran resistance, and I wouldn't blame them for invading Cardassian territory in order to liberate them.
Granted, it's clear Maxwell didn't give a damn about Bajor or anyone else, he was just satisfying his need for revenge. But still, on rewatching TNG I often get cross with Picard's self-righteousness.
As far as we know the Gallitep Labor Camp is still running, which is basically Star Trek's version of Auschwitz. I find it hard to feel sympathy for any Cardassian who isn't taking a stand against their government, so, frankly, to hell with those people who died on the ships and stations Maxwell destroyed.
This grey area is what I liked about DS9 and VOY. Plenty of situations that make you wonder what you would've done.
Another quality grey cat area video!
Gul Dukat!
It's so weird seeing Cardassians with facial hair. Lol
What a great setup to DS9 as well! Now I'm wondering if Paula will be sneaking DS9 in at the correct time, or if they'll wait until after TNG.
I've been re-watching every episode (again) recently and it still amazes me how, over 30 years later, a show can be this relevant and so will written. Then again, there's also TOS, Twilight Zone, MASH...
The answer? Shows today suck. No risk of offending anyone. Today's cancel culture is our Borg. No room for discussion or diversity.
Enjoyed your reaction! 😁
Resistance is futile.
There are always 2 sides, or 3 sides in this case.
If this had been a ST:TOS episode,there no doubt would have been a fist fight with Capt. Kirk! lol
Lots of comparisons get made between Kirk and Picard, and for some very good and obvious reasons. This episode is a prime example of why I like Picard better, personally. That final scene there between Picard and not-Dukat is my favorite example. Kirk would have made the same point, but he would have done so loudly and with a lot of passion. Picard's cold, almost mechanical delivery of those lines made him so much more menacing.
Kirk would have boarded those ships, unveiling Cardassians plans, redeeming captain Maxwell and, in the process, igniting another war
I like Kirk better
Did you watch Levar Burton as guest host on Jeopardy!?
O'Brian: "...around *those* people."
CinemaSins: "That's racist." **DING**
Cardassians are Star Trek's space nazis, so I think it's probably okay.
Never Trust a SpoonHead
Is that the cousin of Dukat?
Ah, yes. The pilot episode of Keeping Up with the Cardassians. Looking forward to more reactions with this race of leather-clad tyrants. ~_^
How come Paula didn't say that the main Cardassian in this episode plays the Cardassian Gul Du Kat in Deep Space Nine ?
Oh, Gul Dukat !!
No, wait... same actor, different character.
Since you don't immediately recognize Maxwell's actor, I guess we can add Shawshank Redemption to the list of movies to watch, if you ever start watching movies on this channel.
Sufferin' Succotash?
Maxwell was right!
A question that’s probably already been answered, but are you planning to watch DS9? And if so, concurrently with tNG or after? Thanks!
When will you gals be able to watch the shows together again?
With the Delta variant on the rise, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Should you believe what a Cardassian says?
Yes, of course
Even the lies?
Especially the lies.
Dastardly Cardasians...
PLEASE tell me that when the time is right you girls plan on doing DS9 reactions? It might have an up and down first season (every Trek Spin off does) but once you get past that, ouut of all the trek shows its probably the best of the bunch for character development and an evolving story with increasing stakes for a good reaction series. Plus almost every character has their hidden side to them.
Can't wait till you start reacting to DS9, these episodes set it up so well.
Is that toxic masculinity I smell? NOPE! Manliness and stoicism!!!