this has been debunked over and over and over, "defense distance" people still aim, having a red dot makes aiming at those close distances FASTER. stop being an old geezer, tons of real life examples out there especially of police using their firearms, they have dots, you still aim..."defense distance" doesnt mean you dont fking aim, thats the dumbest shit ive heard because if thats how you are TRAINING then you are WRONG. also cost is NOT a factor, you can easily get extremely solid affordable dots for around 150-200 bucks for your carry gun, stop acting like dots cost just as much if not more than your pistol. i started out thinking red dots were a gimmick but as soon as i shot one and then trained on it it is 100% faster than irons. stop perpetuating this myth that just because a self defense situation happens at a close range it just means you dont fucking aim your weapon, that shit is stupid and not true. @@thedirtygot9570
Listen here, highspeed. I didn't survive 12 tours at the Golden Corral Endless Buffet for you to flag me with your barrel through the screen like that.
One of the best things I heard in an older video of yours about “finding the red dot” was comparing it to a mouse on a computer. You don’t look for the cursor on the screen then move it, you look on the screen where you want to click and move the cursor to that point.
Or when you throw a baseball, football, softball -- do you watch your throwing hand the entire time? Do you watch it at all? Then why do differently with pistol and RDS?
As someone that has shot irons forever, I recently decided to go with an optic. And yes, some of that reason is because of my aging eyes. But mostly I just wanted to see what it was about. I always said that I target focused with my irons. And I did, but I would also shift my focus during a string of fire occasionally to the sights for realignment. After many many hours of practice and hundreds of draws I decided to take my new optic on my pistol to class. I had no problem “finding my dot” at all upon presentation, but if I lost it during a string of fire I would shift my focus to the optic to “find the dot”. My instructor who is a really cool older retired Marine was watching me knowing it was my first class with the optic. As soon as I “looked for the dot”, he would run right up beside me and in his best Gunny Sergeant Hartman impression screamed right at the side of my face. “I can see your damn eyes shifting focus! Look at the damn target!? Why are you looking at your damn gun!? You’re holding your gun! You know where the hell it is, so stop looking at it! Look at the threat that’s trying to kill you! You’re not holding the enemy. He might move on you and you need to know where he is! So look at the damn target and not your damn gun!!” I yelled “Sir! Yes sir!” Then we had a good laugh. The thing is, you think you’re target focused. But you’d be surprised at how much you’re really not. Especially with a dot.
@@jason200912 Absolutely. Great point. I could instantly tell as soon as I pulled the trigger if I moved the muzzle. It made it a lot easier to “call my shots” after the shot and know where it went before even seeing point of impact. Which is awesome for fixing any problems with your fundamentals. I could kind of do that with irons, but nowhere near as good or accurately with the dot.
Aww good trainer! I don’t shoot firearms much as I only go when my friends invite me shooting, but I have enjoyed using irons and it gave me perspective on the terrible struggle I had with my red dot when I used to play airsoft. It was a confusing experience because I had been a fine shot at paintball, which has no sights at all, but then with a decent airsoft gun with red dot it was a nightmare. Yes, I had red dot focus. I now shoot bows instinctively and I prefer to learn muscle memory and practice consistency to hit my target. I think it translates to firearms because when my buddy had me shoot his 22lr revolver, once I had a feel for it I couldn’t miss the bullseye. Red dots seem fun but even at close range I think someone with great experience with iron sights will do better than someone who is misusing their red dot. Thanks for reading my rambling lol.
Great answer! I only do airsoft. In my experience, red dot is fine for assault-rifles at slightly larger ranges than what we do with pistols. I do not use any red dot on my airsoft pistols. Iron sights is just fine. In fact, it is all about muscle memory, after lots of training. The iron sights are there as a reference point, but not to actually peek through them that much. It takes too much time anyway. I only have scopes on my airsoft DMRs (SR25 and Steyr AUG 0.50) as it makes sense there. My airsoft assaults have their iron sights and occasionally, an ACOG, if I feel like it. The red dots that I own, remain mostly in the closet if I go to a skirm.
Consistency is hard. And I personally find it hard to treat every training and range session as 100% dialed in pew pew time. Sometimes I just want to pew for fun, give 75% of my output. A good goal is to make your 75% results your former 100% results.
I'm 66yo and got my first red dot. Ive been told this by several trainers and have been working hard with my dry fire at home to look thru the dot and find the target. My attitude is "you never stop training" and "you never are to proud to take good advice". I'm inching forward and making progress. Thank you to Ben, Chad Farner from North Shore Sports IL., and my buddy Mark , "fellow retired CPD and trainer" for all the good advice. My red dot work is starting to come together.
I felt like I was nodding in agreement the whole video. Thank you for normalizing the struggle. I thought it was just me struggling not being 100% all the time. It’s good to know target focused is something that still has to be worked on/developed by high level shooters. It’s not a “place you arrive at”, it’s continuous development, or the progressive realization of the overall goal. Thanks Ben
@StarWarsSurvivalist the key word is superimpose, you want to superimpose the red dot on the target by focusing on the target only. Shooting with both eyes open helps this.
Ben's comment on the referenced IG video/class, "occluding the dot doesn't force shit" hits like a hammer. Covering it can absolutely help, but eyes are still prone to 'focusing' at arms reach on the shiny thing. Definitely an ongoing awareness and accountability challenge, like all sorts of training disciplines.
This is probably the single best lesson I learned from taking your class that really opened my eyes. My target transitions got so much faster that day by leading with my eyes to the next target and allowing the dot to follow. My biggest struggle today is not letting the dot over run where it's supposed to go on the target I'm transitioning to.
This is awesome. Just got my first red dot for my 43x and never shot one before. Hopefully this helps me not pick up any bad habits with being dot focused. Thanks for the info
My slides are cut specifically for the RMR, which sits lower than if you’re using Glock MOS for example. My buddy was having trouble finding his dot with an RM01 on a G45 MOS, then shot my G19G5 Roland Special with an RM06 no problem. He ended up selling his G45. The fractions do make a difference if you’re having trouble. I have my red dot lollipopped on my Ameriglo GL429 suppressor height sights and never have a problem pressing out and the dot is right there where I want it. Happy shooting!
Ben, you hit the red dot on the Bullseye. I have been shooting a dot for about 18 months. I first was moving with the pistol and dot in focus. Then after some practice I started using the eyes to transition. Thanks for the great video.
Dude thank you so much for this. It’s like driving a car/riding a bike. Look in the direction you want to go and turn to that direction instead of looking at ground and following the lines on the road. Use the dot in your peripheral vision so to speak but focus on the target.
same here, that's how I learned how to shoot. I was completely lost for most of this video like "why don't you want to find the dot?" and then I was like oooo okay different kind of "finding" it
So funny, I was going to say shooting clays is the best way to become instinctive. That ends up translating to any kind of gun. I usually teach new clay shooters with a wood broom stick first to help them understand this concept.
One of the main purposes of a RDS is to acquire a quick sight acquisition, while keeping both eyes open, allowing for greater peripheral vision. It goes without saying that greater vision creates for a safer shooting environment. RDS have also been proven to assist in aiding those who have astigmatism. Focus on the target, not the dot. As far as being able to find the red dot in a timely manner, you must train, train, and train some more, until it becomes muscle memory.
Great video! I was shooting really well the other day and it was all because I was focusing on the target instead of the dot. Other days I focus on the dot and I shoot like crap. I need to work on doing the former and stop doing the latter. Your videos are helping!
Been shooting for over a year now, started off the rip with a RDS. Did what you talked about, focusing on the dot on accident. Thru more dry fire I figured it out. I was laser focused on a small object and just presented… didn’t really notice the optic bezels… or the pew…. Or even my hands and the concept “clicked”. I still catch myself wanting to focus on the dot sometimes, however shooting occluded and doing small transitions while conscience about “eyes first THEN head and hands” helps.
Well done. Thank you. I just bought one (tomorrow, retirement check comes tomorrow) and all the videos I watched did not explain MY part in the Red Dot shooting. They did help me choose one though. I would have followed the sight just like you said, and probably would have trained like that also. You helped a lot.
Im really new to Modern Sights so this is really helpful. I have only used Irons and a Fixed Scope before so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about modern sights for my AR
Found your channel my accident a couple days back and have learned more in those couple days than I have in several years of trial and error and classes. Thank you for the great information and concise explanations!
About 1998, I switched to OPEN for a season and struggled with the dot.....A friend mentioned putting a paster on the front of my C-More. It worked! Our local SWAT guys at the County now train all day long AND qualify with a the dot covered......Good stuff!
I like your style of coaching, you got a good positive vibe. I train shotgun shooters, skeet mainly. The hardest thing for most of my students is to disconnect their eyes from the barrel and focus on the target. Your computer mouse analogy is fantastic, Im gonna use it. I like to find my “gamers” in class to help with the same mindset of disconnecting their eyes from barrel to target , just like red dot to target. Keep doing you man!
About a year ago I bought my 1st RED DOT. A Leopold Delta Pro II with a 2.5 m.o.a. I have it on a Taurus GS3 Tactical with a 9 pot muzzle comp and suppressor height sights. The red dot and sights coexist. It took a long time for me to find the dot right away and then once I could then to find and hit a target at all let alone consistently. I have over 1500 rounds through it now and I am doing great with it and LOVE it. You are exactly right about finding the target and looking passed the dot focus while maintaining the dot sight. It took me a long time and I still don't know if I've done it right but, it's effective for me. I see my target, grip and present. At that point I can see the dot, the front sight and, the target all at once. At 21 and 30 feet I can dump 10 rounds now in under 4 seconds ( I know, not the quickest) with a 2 inch grouping on target. I think the coexistence of the dot and iron sights helped me a lot to not only be accurate but also to not only focus on the dot itself and look through the glass not at it!
I watched this thinking this is me. I have been training to not be dot focused (dot covered), and be target focused. I agree, it is such a struggle to be target focused. I will get there. One day at a time. These type videos are a big help.
The only reason I was hesitant to have a optic was the extra space when carrying, that said most say it improves accuracy(not to mention looks) and using my brothers I’m going to put one on my shadow 2 comp
Ben speaks the Truth. -> This weekend I had "moments" of target focus. Running into position, get a spot, gun catches up, shoot first target THEN move the dot I've "found" onto the next target in that array. So I'm maybe 50/50... working to get better. 🙂.
The struggle for me is focusing on small spots on the target when transitioning between multiple targets quickly. I think its going to be my biggest focus for a little until it feels comfortable.
Thanks for explaining. Myself running a delta point pro I’ve learned to just keep the big window in front of the target without having to find the dot cause once it’s in the window I know I can get the hit
I've been using one since around 2018. Started with a romeo pro/320 combo. Went back to a glock 19 rmr combo and a g34 w' holosun. I really wanna get my favorite carry gun (CZ-p01) milled for a rmr soon. Thank's for all the info......I'll admit openly it was a big transition from irons to a dot but I can go back and forth fairly well these days. Still learning and trying to target focus always and not slip....when you dot focus you miss at distance at least I do....when moving really bad. Good stuff.....thank you Sir.
Been working on this very thing lately. It's tough after shooting with Irons for so long. For me covering up the optic so I can't see through it has helped the most.
Hi Ben, You are absolutely correct, actually being target focused is difficult and i will often score poorly when I shoot with an awareness to target focused shooting, and that doesn't provide the "fast food, instant gratification" that i want, so then i go back to dot focus, but then i'm slow. oh the struggle.....
The other question is whether it's okay to focus on the dot when shooting red dots. The lens and housing can be large enough to be able to see quite a bit of information in the background. There are also only 2 pieces of key information to focus on rather than 3 like when shooting iron sights. Going from convergence to divergence can happen very quickly, so bouncing back and forth between the 2 might also work. I did 2 years of vision therapy because of a brain injury and have been able to learn vision exercises that have helped shooting.
Coming from shooting stock flat sights on pistols for over 30 years,was a tough transition to a red dot optic. Goes completely opposite of how i was trained to shoot. Took a few times at the range but im more comfortable now. Hopefully i will get just as proficient as i shoot with flat sights
My transition to red dot's was easy for me, but I have great fundamentals. When I train with a timer I honestly don't remember even seeing the sights, but I still get the hits I want.
That little bit of info was very helpful for me, thanks. Also, did you give a pair of safety glasses to a little guy at the pcc championship at Lucas oil years ago?
When I saw the title of the video I was fairly certain where you were going with this. I have been dryfiring in prep for the Area 5 Steel Challenge match where I am shooting three guns with dots. I currently have three stages set up (my worst stages) and the number of times I stop myself and reshoot a string because I was not sure I was target focused is frustrating. My goal is to make GM by the end of the year.
Love your brutal honesty and info sir. How do you place a glock in your firing hand. Every time I grab one it seems it's twisting in my hand when I apply pressure with my support hand.. I'm right handed so the sights dip to the left when I apply pressure. I never know if I'm over wrapping or under wrapping with my fingers. I know I'm doing something wrong but could you shed some light on this in a future video?
I actually learned this at a young age using scoped rifles. If you look through the scope and then try to find the target it is very difficult in the woods. If you pinpoint your target and bring the scope to your eye without breaking concentration the target will be where you are lazer focused with your sight.
You just broke me. I drew my carry on my self in the mirror and then after adjusted on to another object in the mirror and I was chasing the dot on re-aquisition
I spent 10 years doing this wrong, and I did it for a few years of nearly daily dry fire. When you popularized this technique a few years back, the first time I taped the dot I wanted to throw my guns in a swamp. Now after some years of occlusion, I still want to throw guns in swamp when I stare at a taped dot, doing this right is simple but not easy.
I think grip consistency or index is important, it’s like throwing a baseball, you don’t look at the ball. When you get the consistency of draw, grip, keeping both eyes open and focused on target the dot just appears. It took tons of reps but it works for me.
When I work on quick trigger presses I intently focus on the dot watching for movement. Is this wrong? Right after I’m done I switch to focusing on small spots on the target during transitions. I feel like the watching the dot is counter productive to the end goal but necessary for my trigger press.
After watching a video you have done before on this very topic I no longer shoot matches or Dry Fire without the dot occluded. I actually shoot better this way and more accurate, for the simple reason I try my best to focus on the target itself. Hard to do as you say, but I still try.
I was curious so I got a red dot for a range gun to see if I would shoot better. I shoot about the same until my eyes get tired, then I shoot a little better with the red dot. I've been using open sights since 1967 so I prefer them on my carry guns & house gun.
The first time i remember actually being target focused was with an AR at 137yards. I know i was target focused because the only thing i remember from that trip was what the target looked like when the paint chipped and the sound of the steel. I dont even really remember holding the rifle on target or what my sight picture was.
I watched till the end. Did I miss the part where he explains how to use it correctly? Asking honestly. I understand sometimes it’s easy to go off explaining how it’s done wrong, and how so many people get it wrong, that you forget what you came here to say.
Bought the dot. hate the dot. Is like trying to undo 35 years of hard front sight focus. Realize the dot will help me shoot longer if I have eyesight problems. Maybe I should try XS Big Dot?
We understand them, we just don’t think it’s 400$ worth! Optics are for rifles
This is really interesting to me. You really think it’s cost that people don’t have optics on pistols? That maybe right I guess I’m really not sure.
Pin of shame.
Who is We?
@@BenStoeger187 cost is a huge factor for me! At self defense distances a dot is useless!
this has been debunked over and over and over, "defense distance" people still aim, having a red dot makes aiming at those close distances FASTER. stop being an old geezer, tons of real life examples out there especially of police using their firearms, they have dots, you still aim..."defense distance" doesnt mean you dont fking aim, thats the dumbest shit ive heard because if thats how you are TRAINING then you are WRONG. also cost is NOT a factor, you can easily get extremely solid affordable dots for around 150-200 bucks for your carry gun, stop acting like dots cost just as much if not more than your pistol. i started out thinking red dots were a gimmick but as soon as i shot one and then trained on it it is 100% faster than irons. stop perpetuating this myth that just because a self defense situation happens at a close range it just means you dont fucking aim your weapon, that shit is stupid and not true.
@@thedirtygot9570
Listen here, highspeed. I didn't survive 12 tours at the Golden Corral Endless Buffet for you to flag me with your barrel through the screen like that.
Golden Corral huh... Little Rock? iykyk
@@NethezbetWe lost a lot of good men that day.
@@masterofreality230 Their sacrifice won't be forgotten.
Thank you for your service
Dude I came to the comments to say the same thing hahaha
We took a shot every time you said "The Vast Majority of People" and now the vast majority of us are drunk AF... LOL!
Given the context, I thought at first you were referring to the range, not alcohol.
When he said Vast, vast, vast majority did you have to triple chug?
One of the best things I heard in an older video of yours about “finding the red dot” was comparing it to a mouse on a computer. You don’t look for the cursor on the screen then move it, you look on the screen where you want to click and move the cursor to that point.
Or when you throw a baseball, football, softball -- do you watch your throwing hand the entire time? Do you watch it at all?
Then why do differently with pistol and RDS?
That video came to mind for me too. Thought it was a great explanation.
amazing tip, i was having trouble on finding the dot on draw but now i can find it almost instantly
This is fucking legend advice!
This is some solid advice!
As someone that has shot irons forever, I recently decided to go with an optic. And yes, some of that reason is because of my aging eyes. But mostly I just wanted to see what it was about. I always said that I target focused with my irons. And I did, but I would also shift my focus during a string of fire occasionally to the sights for realignment. After many many hours of practice and hundreds of draws I decided to take my new optic on my pistol to class. I had no problem “finding my dot” at all upon presentation, but if I lost it during a string of fire I would shift my focus to the optic to “find the dot”. My instructor who is a really cool older retired Marine was watching me knowing it was my first class with the optic. As soon as I “looked for the dot”, he would run right up beside me and in his best Gunny Sergeant Hartman impression screamed right at the side of my face. “I can see your damn eyes shifting focus! Look at the damn target!? Why are you looking at your damn gun!? You’re holding your gun! You know where the hell it is, so stop looking at it! Look at the threat that’s trying to kill you! You’re not holding the enemy. He might move on you and you need to know where he is! So look at the damn target and not your damn gun!!” I yelled “Sir! Yes sir!” Then we had a good laugh. The thing is, you think you’re target focused. But you’d be surprised at how much you’re really not. Especially with a dot.
Red dots also show proof that you pulled the shot too since the dot will Twitch over and show you your point of impact as a result of bad trigger pull
@@jason200912 Absolutely. Great point. I could instantly tell as soon as I pulled the trigger if I moved the muzzle. It made it a lot easier to “call my shots” after the shot and know where it went before even seeing point of impact. Which is awesome for fixing any problems with your fundamentals. I could kind of do that with irons, but nowhere near as good or accurately with the dot.
Aww good trainer! I don’t shoot firearms much as I only go when my friends invite me shooting, but I have enjoyed using irons and it gave me perspective on the terrible struggle I had with my red dot when I used to play airsoft. It was a confusing experience because I had been a fine shot at paintball, which has no sights at all, but then with a decent airsoft gun with red dot it was a nightmare. Yes, I had red dot focus. I now shoot bows instinctively and I prefer to learn muscle memory and practice consistency to hit my target. I think it translates to firearms because when my buddy had me shoot his 22lr revolver, once I had a feel for it I couldn’t miss the bullseye. Red dots seem fun but even at close range I think someone with great experience with iron sights will do better than someone who is misusing their red dot. Thanks for reading my rambling lol.
That’s some good fun training my man!
Great answer! I only do airsoft. In my experience, red dot is fine for assault-rifles at slightly larger ranges than what we do with pistols. I do not use any red dot on my airsoft pistols. Iron sights is just fine. In fact, it is all about muscle memory, after lots of training. The iron sights are there as a reference point, but not to actually peek through them that much. It takes too much time anyway. I only have scopes on my airsoft DMRs (SR25 and Steyr AUG 0.50) as it makes sense there. My airsoft assaults have their iron sights and occasionally, an ACOG, if I feel like it. The red dots that I own, remain mostly in the closet if I go to a skirm.
Agreed - I see it all the time on other folks and sometimes see myself doing it when editing my reviews.
Some days I'm absolutely locked in and other days I wonder how I suck so bad while practicing so much.
Consistency is hard. And I personally find it hard to treat every training and range session as 100% dialed in pew pew time. Sometimes I just want to pew for fun, give 75% of my output. A good goal is to make your 75% results your former 100% results.
Take some classes
Me.
My problem is I train with too many platforms lol.
@Catgat37 why?
I'm 66yo and got my first red dot. Ive been told this by several trainers and have been working hard with my dry fire at home to look thru the dot and find the target. My attitude is "you never stop training" and "you never are to proud to take good advice". I'm inching forward and making progress. Thank you to Ben, Chad Farner from North Shore Sports IL., and my buddy Mark , "fellow retired CPD and trainer" for all the good advice. My red dot work is starting to come together.
I felt like I was nodding in agreement the whole video.
Thank you for normalizing the struggle. I thought it was just me struggling not being 100% all the time. It’s good to know target focused is something that still has to be worked on/developed by high level shooters. It’s not a “place you arrive at”, it’s continuous development, or the progressive realization of the overall goal.
Thanks Ben
Good golfers know the swing, grip, stance always are works in progress, good shooters know the same on fundamentals.
Target focus is easy for me, it's focusing on one tiny spot on the target that's illusive.
Ben, you’re on a roll with these last several vids. Thank you, Sir! 🫡
To make a long story short, focus on the target and not the dot...you're welcome
I hear you, but then what is the point of having a RDS on your pistol to begin with? That is what is confusing me?
@StarWarsSurvivalist the key word is superimpose, you want to superimpose the red dot on the target by focusing on the target only. Shooting with both eyes open helps this.
The hero we needed
Ben's comment on the referenced IG video/class, "occluding the dot doesn't force shit" hits like a hammer. Covering it can absolutely help, but eyes are still prone to 'focusing' at arms reach on the shiny thing. Definitely an ongoing awareness and accountability challenge, like all sorts of training disciplines.
Basically it has to "be in the way" between eye and target, without focusing on the dot itself, where it is, etc.
I have been working on mastering the red dot with both eyes closed.
Ben’s last words “if you want to get good”, this is just as important if you want to stay good.
This is probably the single best lesson I learned from taking your class that really opened my eyes. My target transitions got so much faster that day by leading with my eyes to the next target and allowing the dot to follow. My biggest struggle today is not letting the dot over run where it's supposed to go on the target I'm transitioning to.
This is awesome. Just got my first red dot for my 43x and never shot one before. Hopefully this helps me not pick up any bad habits with being dot focused. Thanks for the info
Wow. This makes so much sense and thanks for putting in this way and so it will always be an ongoing process...
Thanks for these tips. I just got my first dot yesterday (2/25/24). I got a class next Saturday to start understanding how to use a dot. 👍
My slides are cut specifically for the RMR, which sits lower than if you’re using Glock MOS for example. My buddy was having trouble finding his dot with an RM01 on a G45 MOS, then shot my G19G5 Roland Special with an RM06 no problem. He ended up selling his G45. The fractions do make a difference if you’re having trouble. I have my red dot lollipopped on my Ameriglo GL429 suppressor height sights and never have a problem pressing out and the dot is right there where I want it. Happy shooting!
Ben, you hit the red dot on the Bullseye. I have been shooting a dot for about 18 months. I first was moving with the pistol and dot in focus. Then after some practice I started using the eyes to transition. Thanks for the great video.
Needed to hear this today. And actually answered some questions I've been asking myself
Excellent video. Truth.
Fantastic info and truth speaking. It's a constant struggle and always will be.
Thanks for the tips. Appreciate you Ben.
I’ve noticed after a good stage, that I didn’t even notice the dot. And the complete opposite after a bad run.
Nice dose of brutal honesty for us mere mortal shooters.
Thanks again for providing free quality content Ben!
Dude thank you so much for this. It’s like driving a car/riding a bike. Look in the direction you want to go and turn to that direction instead of looking at ground and following the lines on the road. Use the dot in your peripheral vision so to speak but focus on the target.
So much truth and information. Appreciate you.
As a long time sporting clay shooter, I think that trains you to look at the target instead of the gun.
Agree 100%, moving targets require complete invisible gun technique
same here, that's how I learned how to shoot. I was completely lost for most of this video like "why don't you want to find the dot?" and then I was like oooo okay different kind of "finding" it
So funny, I was going to say shooting clays is the best way to become instinctive.
That ends up translating to any kind of gun. I usually teach new clay shooters with a wood broom stick first to help them understand this concept.
@@callin4_reign878 nice! if you really wanna teach someone to pick up a target, 5 stand will humble you quickly
One of the main purposes of a RDS is to acquire a quick sight acquisition, while keeping both eyes open, allowing for greater peripheral vision. It goes without saying that greater vision creates for a safer shooting environment. RDS have also been proven to assist in aiding those who have astigmatism. Focus on the target, not the dot. As far as being able to find the red dot in a timely manner, you must train, train, and train some more, until it becomes muscle memory.
Very, very informative. I had no idea I was doing this incorrectly. Thank you for posting this.
If you can't find the red dot. You probably can't figure out how to line up iron sights.
So true - it takes a lot of practice to target focus and bring the dot in between eye and target.
A lot of practice !
Excellent. After years of shooting irons, the dots certainly have a learning curve. Thanks.
Great video! I was shooting really well the other day and it was all because I was focusing on the target instead of the dot. Other days I focus on the dot and I shoot like crap. I need to work on doing the former and stop doing the latter. Your videos are helping!
Just brilliant!
A good analogy would be, when steering your car around, you do not look at the steering wheel, you look at the road and your hands follow.
Spot on. Just what I needed to hear over coffee this morning.
Thanks for the insight, am trying to improve, I'll be working on my focus the next range trip. Leaving a note in the range bag.
This simply describes something I’ve been struggling to put into words for awhile.
Well damn done sir. Thanks.
All you needed to say is "Look past the dot at your target instead of looking at the dot."
There I saved you guys nearly 7 minutes.
I didn’t at first, and then tried the dot occlusion stuff and now I get it.
Been shooting for over a year now, started off the rip with a RDS. Did what you talked about, focusing on the dot on accident. Thru more dry fire I figured it out. I was laser focused on a small object and just presented… didn’t really notice the optic bezels… or the pew…. Or even my hands and the concept “clicked”. I still catch myself wanting to focus on the dot sometimes, however shooting occluded and doing small transitions while conscience about “eyes first THEN head and hands” helps.
phenomenally helpful tips!! thank you
Well done. Thank you. I just bought one (tomorrow, retirement check comes tomorrow) and all the videos I watched did not explain MY part in the Red Dot shooting. They did help me choose one though. I would have followed the sight just like you said, and probably would have trained like that also. You helped a lot.
Im really new to Modern Sights so this is really helpful.
I have only used Irons and a Fixed Scope before so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about modern sights for my AR
Found your channel my accident a couple days back and have learned more in those couple days than I have in several years of trial and error and classes. Thank you for the great information and concise explanations!
About 1998, I switched to OPEN for a season and struggled with the dot.....A friend mentioned putting a paster on the front of my C-More. It worked! Our local SWAT guys at the County now train all day long AND qualify with a the dot covered......Good stuff!
Great video! I have to remind myself constantly to get off the dot and others I train with don’t understand why I’m trying not to stare at the dot
I like your style of coaching, you got a good positive vibe. I train shotgun shooters, skeet mainly. The hardest thing for most of my students is to disconnect their eyes from the barrel and focus on the target. Your computer mouse analogy is fantastic, Im gonna use it. I like to find my “gamers” in class to help with the same mindset of disconnecting their eyes from barrel to target , just like red dot to target. Keep doing you man!
the best way to learn to be target focused is to use a laser training round
Scott from The Modern Samurai Project has some of the best advice I’ve seen on red dot pistol shooting.
About a year ago I bought my 1st RED DOT. A Leopold Delta Pro II with a 2.5 m.o.a. I have it on a Taurus GS3 Tactical with a 9 pot muzzle comp and suppressor height sights. The red dot and sights coexist.
It took a long time for me to find the dot right away and then once I could then to find and hit a target at all let alone consistently.
I have over 1500 rounds through it now and I am doing great with it and LOVE it.
You are exactly right about finding the target and looking passed the dot focus while maintaining the dot sight. It took me a long time and I still don't know if I've done it right but, it's effective for me. I see my target, grip and present. At that point I can see the dot, the front sight and, the target all at once.
At 21 and 30 feet I can dump 10 rounds now in under 4 seconds ( I know, not the quickest) with a 2 inch grouping on target.
I think the coexistence of the dot and iron sights helped me a lot to not only be accurate but also to not only focus on the dot itself and look through the glass not at it!
I watched this thinking this is me. I have been training to not be dot focused (dot covered), and be target focused. I agree, it is such a struggle to be target focused. I will get there. One day at a time. These type videos are a big help.
It can be a tough transition after using iron sights for so many years and being taught to focus on the front sight.
This is another reason why I advise people to NEVER "first learn irons, then move to a dot".
Great points made. Being the realist goes a long way.
Adding sights to act as a reference has helped me move the dot back to the subconscious tremendously.
The only reason I was hesitant to have a optic was the extra space when carrying, that said most say it improves accuracy(not to mention looks) and using my brothers I’m going to put one on my shadow 2 comp
Ben speaks the Truth. -> This weekend I had "moments" of target focus. Running into position, get a spot, gun catches up, shoot first target THEN move the dot I've "found" onto the next target in that array. So I'm maybe 50/50... working to get better. 🙂.
The struggle for me is focusing on small spots on the target when transitioning between multiple targets quickly. I think its going to be my biggest focus for a little until it feels comfortable.
Same. Same. Especially on steel.
CZcams made me watch a foot deodorant commercial before it would let me watch this video. I’m glad the content of the video was worth it. 😂😂😂
Opera browser.
Turn on the Ad block.
Works like a charm.
Hope your toes are still there
Started with a 6. As I got the grip dialed in I prefer the smaller 2 moa dot. No more chasing or looking for the dot.
Thanks for explaining. Myself running a delta point pro I’ve learned to just keep the big window in front of the target without having to find the dot cause once it’s in the window I know I can get the hit
I've been using one since around 2018. Started with a romeo pro/320 combo. Went back to a glock 19 rmr combo and a g34 w' holosun. I really wanna get my favorite carry gun (CZ-p01) milled for a rmr soon. Thank's for all the info......I'll admit openly it was a big transition from irons to a dot but I can go back and forth fairly well these days. Still learning and trying to target focus always and not slip....when you dot focus you miss at distance at least I do....when moving really bad. Good stuff.....thank you Sir.
Been working on this very thing lately. It's tough after shooting with Irons for so long. For me covering up the optic so I can't see through it has helped the most.
Hi Ben, You are absolutely correct, actually being target focused is difficult and i will often score poorly when I shoot with an awareness to target focused shooting, and that doesn't provide the "fast food, instant gratification" that i want, so then i go back to dot focus, but then i'm slow. oh the struggle.....
Outstanding commentary
The other question is whether it's okay to focus on the dot when shooting red dots. The lens and housing can be large enough to be able to see quite a bit of information in the background. There are also only 2 pieces of key information to focus on rather than 3 like when shooting iron sights. Going from convergence to divergence can happen very quickly, so bouncing back and forth between the 2 might also work. I did 2 years of vision therapy because of a brain injury and have been able to learn vision exercises that have helped shooting.
My solution to red dots on handguns is to not use a red dot on a handgun. Especially on one you carry for self defense....
Bingo. Not able to deploy in most civilian defensive uses anyway.
For a good while i took the rear sight off my carry gun to get good at front sight focus. After i was at around a 5" circle at 7 yds i put it back.
Coming from shooting stock flat sights on pistols for over 30 years,was a tough transition to a red dot optic. Goes completely opposite of how i was trained to shoot. Took a few times at the range but im more comfortable now. Hopefully i will get just as proficient as i shoot with flat sights
Good a fellow American 🇺🇸
LET'S BUILD THAT WALL Y'ALL ONE BRICK AT A TIME! 🧱
My transition to red dot's was easy for me, but I have great fundamentals. When I train with a timer I honestly don't remember even seeing the sights, but I still get the hits I want.
Straight talk. The struggle is real! LOL.
That little bit of info was very helpful for me, thanks.
Also, did you give a pair of safety glasses to a little guy at the pcc championship at Lucas oil years ago?
When I saw the title of the video I was fairly certain where you were going with this. I have been dryfiring in prep for the Area 5 Steel Challenge match where I am shooting three guns with dots. I currently have three stages set up (my worst stages) and the number of times I stop myself and reshoot a string because I was not sure I was target focused is frustrating. My goal is to make GM by the end of the year.
Very similar to shooting a basketball, throwing a baseball or football. Acquire your target and your body will get whatever it is to it.
Love your brutal honesty and info sir. How do you place a glock in your firing hand. Every time I grab one it seems it's twisting in my hand when I apply pressure with my support hand.. I'm right handed so the sights dip to the left when I apply pressure. I never know if I'm over wrapping or under wrapping with my fingers. I know I'm doing something wrong but could you shed some light on this in a future video?
I started with a red dot and was definitely focusing on the red dot not on the target its been a tough thing to get good at
I actually learned this at a young age using scoped rifles. If you look through the scope and then try to find the target it is very difficult in the woods. If you pinpoint your target and bring the scope to your eye without breaking concentration the target will be where you are lazer focused with your sight.
You just broke me. I drew my carry on my self in the mirror and then after adjusted on to another object in the mirror and I was chasing the dot on re-aquisition
I spent 10 years doing this wrong, and I did it for a few years of nearly daily dry fire. When you popularized this technique a few years back, the first time I taped the dot I wanted to throw my guns in a swamp. Now after some years of occlusion, I still want to throw guns in swamp when I stare at a taped dot, doing this right is simple but not easy.
I think grip consistency or index is important, it’s like throwing a baseball, you don’t look at the ball. When you get the consistency of draw, grip, keeping both eyes open and focused on target the dot just appears. It took tons of reps but it works for me.
glad to co-witness this.
When I work on quick trigger presses I intently focus on the dot watching for movement. Is this wrong? Right after I’m done I switch to focusing on small spots on the target during transitions. I feel like the watching the dot is counter productive to the end goal but necessary for my trigger press.
Blackout the front of the red dot with some tape and train that way until you consistently target focus
After watching a video you have done before on this very topic I no longer shoot matches or Dry Fire without the dot occluded. I actually shoot better this way and more accurate, for the simple reason I try my best to focus on the target itself. Hard to do as you say, but I still try.
Well done! Truth born of experience.
How do you feel about the ACSS Vulcan dot for beginners? You can turn the big ring off
I was curious so I got a red dot for a range gun to see if I would shoot better. I shoot about the same until my eyes get tired, then I shoot a little better with the red dot. I've been using open sights since 1967 so I prefer them on my carry guns & house gun.
Great Info! I don’t use a red dot but this gives me the heads up when I do. Thanks for your knowledge!!
What is correct red dot brightness level, which help target focus training?
The first time i remember actually being target focused was with an AR at 137yards. I know i was target focused because the only thing i remember from that trip was what the target looked like when the paint chipped and the sound of the steel. I dont even really remember holding the rifle on target or what my sight picture was.
What distance do you prefer to sight in red dots at?
So unlike irons, I should hard focus on the target instead of the dot and align them that way?
I watched till the end. Did I miss the part where he explains how to use it correctly? Asking honestly. I understand sometimes it’s easy to go off explaining how it’s done wrong, and how so many people get it wrong, that you forget what you came here to say.
Bought the dot. hate the dot. Is like trying to undo 35 years of hard front sight focus. Realize the dot will help me shoot longer if I have eyesight problems. Maybe I should try XS Big Dot?
Appreciate the vid. Makes sense.
If I’m new to shooting do you recommend starting with a dot or get accustomed to traditional no dot before I get one?
When I got my first RDS I did probably a thousand draws till I got used to finding the dot. There's definitely a transition.