Why Subaru Engines FAIL
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2022
- In this video we tear down a Subaru Boxer 2.0L turbocharged engine to see what's inside and how it works! We also examine some of the common failure points on these engines and what to look out for if you are looking for a vehicle with a boxer engine.
The Subaru engine in this video was from an early 2000's Impreza WRX with an EJ20 engine. A boxer 4 cylinder engine has pairs of pistons that are horizontally opposed, lending for good engine balance and a low center of gravity. The disadvantages are that the lubrication system takes a longer time to drain back to the sump, making it challenging to maintain proper oil pressure especially if the oil is run low, in addition to maintenance challenges when working on the engine head, such as valve covers, spark plugs, valve adjustments or head gasket replacement.
Common failure points on these engines include connecting rod bearing failure (due to running too low on oil), oil and coolant mixing together (creating a lack of lubrication) due to head gasket failure, weak head bolts or under torque, oil consumption and ring land failure.
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100% do a video on this turbocharger and how it works, I think it would help a lot of people better understand a few things, such as wastegate, wastegate actuator, hot/cold side of the turbo, and it would actually be an interesting watch ngl
Sure! I have a TDI engine here
@@speedkar99 just make sure you make fake blow off valve sounds with your mouth in the video
@@speedkar99 I CANNOT WAIT! Huge TDI fan here
Yeah he would be surprised how many people call my diverter valve sound a wastegate sound. 🤦🏼♂️. Including guys that have been around cars for 20 years
All facts g
I’ve learned so much from these videos, and I am in no way a mechanic. The toothbrush as a pointer is hilarious, but the delivery is extremely professional; no hemming or hawing, just a flow of expert information. Very impressive.
So, bad maintenance is pretty much the #1 cause of failure. Lack of an oil change/running the oil level down, oil starts failing due to excess heat/contamination which clogs the pick-up tube which causes the engine lubrication system to fail which overheats the heads which causes a headgasket to fail which causes the oil to fail even more which helps the make the piston rings fail even more until you have complete engine failure. So... just check the oil and change at reasonable intervals? Gotcha.
My dad drove us for 19 years in a 1983 Subaru GL wagon, 2L carburetor, through Germany, Italy, Texas, California, and Louisiana: he was USAF. Sold it to a college kid with over 200k miles on the clock. Great car. That's why I have an '18 Forester now.
Still, Subaru engines are fragile, too sensitive to maintenance, and more prone to breaking down.
That's the essence of many of these failures. No oil = blown engine. Subarus are just more susceptible to this because the engine design isn't as forgiving as a conventional inline 4, and the types of people who own them don't take care of them.
Not even bad maintenance. Anything less than absolutely perfect maintenance will doom these engines.
And yet tens of thousands of them are on the road, with over 200k miles on the clock. Idk man, I admit there are issues, but you are making them sound like Trabants. Care to point to reports? Evidence? Proof of any kind? You have yet to mention a specific issue. Most engines will destroy themselves when deprived of oil.
... Unless it has "Honda" on the badge...
I really enjoy your tear down videos. You keep up a good pace and you know what you’re doing.
The best breakdown I've seen of a boxer. Learned quite a bit. Keep it up. You'll hit 500k soon!
They are good engines if taken care of.
The problem is people constantly launching and redlining the engine like they are in world rally cross.
redlining doesnt hurt the engine
bad tune and lack of maintenance does
You both are right
The early 2.5 engine had the composite head gasket that was known to fail over time. When they were replaced with MLS head gaskets the problem went away. They also had the small 48 mm main bearing. Now, the 2.2L engines were almost indestructible.
Good to know. I didn't pinpoint the exact spot on the HG where it failed
You meant 2.4L?
@@Ukrainian_Matchstick No he meant EJ22 i think. FA and FB series have no issues aside of mild oil consumption in early run from 2011 till 2013.
Great informative video.
I ran from new a 2005 2.0L WRX with a Prodrive performance pack. I ran it for 8 years and 80k miles, with no issues. The key for me was good maintenance, best oil, 97/99 gas (UK octane)
Great engine walkthrough as always! Thanks!
Thanks
that seems like an EJ without a proper maintenance for a long period of time. not the actual subaru engine fail. dont mislead the public with such kind of headline. However u have the best explanation about EJ engine.
this, it was hard to watch with all of his assumptions about this being subaru's fault, when this car was text book abused and neglected. I also agree that his understanding of engines was spot on. I know many many many EJ20T engines with well over 300k miles with the stock MLS gasket still running strong.
Always such a good explanation from a engineering and tech point of view. You really know your stuff.
Meticulous oil changes, high quality oil and keeping the level up will help them last longer.
And DONT tune them just leave them alone unless you are ready for a full build.
Starting in 2007 the factory Subaru tune is BAD and contributed to the increase of failures. You should 100% get a real tune from a reputable tuner even if your car isn't modified. Not a Cobb Accessport map.
@@seanb9698 oh damn did not know about that I was referring to tuning for more hp in combinations with some bolt on mods which is guaranteed to accelerate failures on a lot of engines.
Whats goofy about the factors tune?
@@alouisschafer7212 The factory tune has lean conditions for emissions reasons, which can lead to detonation
The professor on engines . Always something to learn on this channel.
Thanks my student 🙂
he can picture and build an engine of his own design in his head!!
Oh my God you still have the toothbrush in your hand i could listen to you all day, amazing teacher,I saw a video from 3 years ago because I need to change my AC compressor it's knocking and you had a toothbrush you disassemble the AC compressor that is incredible I love the toothbrush touch,
I think a video from you about how turbos work would instantly be the best video on how turbo works!
I have a 2.5 Forester XT manual 2006, each time I change the oil I hold my breath to see what color comes out 😂 170k on the clock with not much besides a new timing belt. I love the car. It's small, fun, and fast but can fit so much in the trunk and can take forest roads like a dream. I get the hate but my experience so far is that it's super reliable.
Pretty sure it will develop issues around 250-300k 🙁
Just keep on top of the maintenance and keep her going.
Outback '04 H6 here. Blew HG at 240K last year. Still drove it around town - it did not really overheat, just needed to regularly pour coolant from overflow reservoir back to radiator. Finally junked it a month ago. It was a solid car. They don't make them like that anymore.
Get ready for head gaskets change anytime now.
@@DanSlotea I know it could come anytime and I'll cross that bridge if it comes. But from what I've heard the 2.5 turbos used a muti layer steel head gasket which is less likely to leak compared to the 2.0 and other models. Crossing fingers
@@guitaroman101 when, not if. I have a stock 2006 2.5 xt automatic, EJ255 engine. Changed head gaskets at 120 000 km. Not miles, kilometers.
+1 for turbocharger video
Bonus for subaru CVT teardown and explanation
That would be awesome!
Great information as always. Keep up the great work.
Awesome!
@@speedkar99 great information and very helpful review!! What is the best engine of the market for you? Thank you for the answer, i wish you the best😊
Here are some of the problems we encountered with our two Subarus: flimsy heat shields that self destruct; exhaust manifolds that pass directly over the CV boots that cooks the rubber necessitating replacement of the entire CV joint; under engineered front disks that warp (replacement with after market disks solved problem); four speed transmissions that downshifted constantly to be replaced by CVT that has its own problems; inherent engineering deficiencies in the engine that commonly results in head gasket and cylinder over-heating problems not found in other four-bangers. The failure of window design (perhaps improved now) made wind noise irritating and the air venting that introduced very warm air into the cabin (necessitating use of AC even with cool outside temps) was just another problem.
Fantastic video as always, eloquently explained and the perfect amount of information and used clothing.
Seeing the Subaru boxer engine made me think about Porsche’s boxer engines, especially the notorious first gen water-cooled M96/M97 engines with IMS and bore score issues. Maybe one day if possible you could do a video on that series of engines. I think it would be especially fascinating considering how long-lived that engine series was, from 1997 to basically 2009 with a lot of incremental changes but very little architectural differences.
I'd love one day to tear down a Porsche engine.
even my cat understood what he was saying, it tells me Scotty was right, "theyre a royal pain in the rear end to fix when they fail"
Good video, and as always very well explained. Keep going 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you
Thank you for explaining this engine and how it works. You talk very well and in terms I can relate ..Keep the vids coming,love em all
Thanks I'm glad you find it educational
Great video as always, very descriptive & graphic as well, I own one of these '07 Subaru's non turbo & done a lot of work & keep it very stock because I'm sure it won't last as long otherwise..
Any issues with head gasket or coolant ?
@damon waite who wants to do an engine out job of any type at 150k? If u gotta pull the motor at 150k to change head gaskets...u might as well replace half the components while ur there an while the engine is out an that seems like a complete waste of time on a car that has 150k already
Great teardown and explanation
It is so satisfying seeing someone tear this down with tasteful descriptions! Keep up the quality!
great video again my friend. I appreciate these boxers but would never want to own/service one
The Subaru DOHC turbo engines in the EJ serious have always used the MLS head gaskets. They do not fail unless the coolant has the incorrect mix of water to anti freeze and the alloy corrodes. The main reasons for coolant to oil mix are turbo seal failures and oil filter cooler failures. Good video of the turbo boxer tear down.
how do you have incorect antifreeze mix
@@Noooo23523 Too much water and not enough coolant, or contaminated water. Always use distilled or demineralised water in cooling systems, as normal tap water has trace metals and minerals that can promote rust. Alternatively you can use pre-mixed coolant. If using concentrate, try and use a high quality H.O.A.T or O.A.T spec coolant.
@@nzuncovered1845 yes but you can 70-30% in hot climate i think
@@Noooo23523 Yep 30% is good enough
@@nzuncovered1845 normal is 50%
Boxer engines have inherent flaws, too; they are notorious for oil leaks, head gasket failures & oblong cylinder wear- due to the forces of gravity acting on the pistons...
reminds me of the alfa romeo alfasud/33/sprint boxer engine until you get to the block which is one piece (cast iron) on the alfa and split into two parts on the subaru.
Hey dude I would request you to also make a video on how self inflation tyre system works?? Please... You make understand things very good
What a complicated engine. Great work
Knowledgeable video. Thanks.
You replace the headbolts on the boxer 4 as they're all stretch to yield and one use only bolts
Dead give away is a nice new looking belt and the Cams moving freely
Meaning a belt failure and bent valves
Good vid keep it up
Crazy way to take the block apart for access to crank, rods etc, never would have known without this video.
Sure is interesting!!
@@speedkar99 Sure is! Did you have to dirty the tea towel?
You need a set of JIS Screwdrivers and a Metric Allen (Hex) Key set. It will help you a lot with those fasteners.
Amazing video, thanks !!!
You are welcome
Hey there! I’ve been a fan of your videos for a while now. I love your content and I’m planning on repairing an old Chevy Malibu v6 3.5 LX9 engine and I could not find anything online yet. Would you consider this engine for a future video? Thanks for being the best engine channel on CZcams !
Sure! I'd love to get one but GM engines in general are hard to find for sale .. usually they end up scrapping the whole car.
I see most of the fasteners for this engine have the brown (canadian) loctite applied. excellent vid, thanks!
Yes they do!
Yes!!! Absolutely do a video on turbochargers
Sure thing
Honestly I never seen a very detailed video like this before, you are genius man. I really need your advice. I have 2008 subaru legacy 2L TD with 150k km, everyone saying its bad cars, but I see the car have good power and no issues with it, why it have a bad reputation please? Also what I need to keep an eye on, in order to keep it life. Please help me and give me an advice. Thank you so much
This surprises me. The 2L WRX engine of this era with the metal head gasket wasn't known for head gasket failure. NA engines with the composite head gasket always blew. Still, you could expect to get maybe a 100K miles or more before failure. As of a couple of years ago Subaru was still selling this garbage head gasket as a repair part. BTW, this is an interference engine. Extreme care is required when swapping timing belts.
2.5 engines were more susceptible to head gasket failure due to the thinner walls of the cylinders from the previous 2.2 litre displacement.
If I recall I think I might have had to remove a motor mounts and jack up the motor to change plugs on my SVX. It was packed in there.
I have an EJ206 in my legacy GT. i run 95 octane, i think that the 91 causes detonation under some driving conditions, it definitely increases oil consumption, and make the oil get dirty quick..
do i need to have it tuned, like timing and plugs.. it goes real good when necessary,
,but these days im in to fuel economy , does 33mpg [imperial]
Too many avenues for failure. My sister had to have her Forester engine replaced after only 6000 miles(defective piston rings). Watching this video really makes me appreciate the 2.5L 2ARFE engine in my 2017 Camry.
A WRX will run circles around a Camry. More performaance requires much more maintenance.
It’s what’s stopped me from getting the latest outback besides the bad fuel consumption.
Yea, My favorite mechanic is making videos again.
Thank you sir for awsome video 👍
You are welcome
Mostly cylinder number 4 because of the lack of cooling . The headgaskets ports are smaller than the ones one block. The biggest re among is because the exhaust ports on 2 and 4 are not symmetrical. They bend left and right efore exiting into the exhaust. Which then heat soaks the block. Also cylinder number 4 is the guinea pig for the rest of engine because of the knock sensor is located by 4. Hope this helps.
@Michaels Carport i know.
@Michaels Carport yes currently rebuilding an ej253 and ej255
Just like with rotaries they require extra upkeep just to keep them from turning into paperweights
If you happen to get your hands on a hyundai G4ED 1.6, I'd love to see a teardown video for that. It's what I have in my 2009 accent and I'd love to see the inside
Yep I just bought a 2013 1.6 gamma engine last week!
Absolutely beautiful !
As someone with a broken EJ205 in my garage right now I can confirm this is accurate, but I still love my Bugeye and she will be getting a built engine :)
Are you switching it up or getting the same engine
@@goudagramps3719 I'll stick with the 2.0L, the 2.5L have a higher tendency to throw rod bearings than the 2.0L does. Gunna get the engine close-decked, drilled for 1/2" head studs, and forged internals hopefully going for ~450whp
@@Grooove_e that’s Awesome man I hope it’s fun
@@goudagramps3719 thanks I appreciate it, I daily drove the car for 3 years before it broke and I'm doing a full restoration level build with it now, ill try to start posting videos of working on it/driving it once it's done
Thanks for sharing.
Watched video and immediately checked the oil level on my EJ257.
Good call
I would love a video about turbos!
The coolant supply to the body of the turbocharger is there to cool the centre bearing of the turbo.....
So the turbo, when the engine is switched off after a long hard run, and there is no oil circulating.....
the coolant will take away the heat and stop the oil in the turbo bearings from turning into carbon...
This became the solution to stop idling down (turbo timer anyone?) ...after people who didn't know any better had cooked the centre bearing with coked up (carbonised) oil....
Yes exactly.
Well done bro
I had a subaru with a EJ25 Single cam and I learn a lot that they burn a lot of antifreeze and oil I always had to carry a bottle of both lol
Any over heating?
Can a bad no communication ecu malfunction in one way like no spark with soaked plugs then switch to no voltage at any injectors? I'm finally replacing it but it never made sense.
Soaked plugs are from leaking spark plugs tube seals.
No voltage at injectors could be a wiring, ground or ECU problem.
Holy shit, you just convinced me to take my 02 wrx to a mechanic to have the head gasket replaced tomorrow.
These engines can go for a while, can hold 20 psi of boost on a daily with an upgraded medium turbo.
You have to stay on top of oil, timing belt and look after it.
They exit corners fast, good traction off line and in the wet. Good handling too
I've had two wrxs, good cars
fantastic engine, thank you for your video
You are welcome. Do you like boxer engines?
@@speedkar99 I like different approaches, and the legacy of subaru. But i like japanse automotive! I love the japanse 90's 6 in lines the best!!
The ez30 or 3 ltr boxer 6 is a beautiful engine. Almost perfectly balanced. You can see why planes used boxers. Reliable and balanced!
I recently had to sell my Legacy 2.5 GT ‘05 with 207k miles that I owned for almost 10 years because it got a really bad oil leak over the past several months. Loved that thing, especially since it was a manual, but it was becoming a nightmare with constantly having to keep oil in the car and the cost to fix it was way too much since the entire engine had to be taken out to repair it.
I drive a 2016 Lexus IS 300 now. I wouldn’t mind having a Subaru again as a second car, but not as a daily driver, at least not one with a turbo engine.
MY 2018 IMPRESA 20K ALREADY HAD 4 RECALLS AND BATTERY WENT BAD AFTER 6K MILES
STILL HAVE IT
@@ekop1778 Thats good because other manufacturers tend to hide issues from manufacturing. Subaru tries to track down and fix all even most petty issues. Also FB and FA(EZ series too) series of engines are very reliable. All bad reputation is caused by cheap graphite gaskwts on EJ25 naturally aspirated engine and turbo EJs from oil starvation.
Do a video on a vw 1.9 tdi do the 1z version vs the alh
I got a 1.9 TDI setup out of a Jetta I parted out sitting here
Thank You Sir.
Welcome
Hi, will a 2018 subaru outback wagon non turbo have a cam carrier leak/drip at 34,000 miles on the car? bought the car end of 2017. subaru dealer is saying the base price is $3555.
Very possible. That's why I don't like oil interfaces going through multiple parts.
FINALLY !! ITS HERE !
Yep!
Ahh so that is why money was paid for this lump of iron
Inadequate Preventative Maintenance and being raw dogged at the same time generally turn most engines into 1 solid state piece of metal.. subaru handles all that fairly well.. do the PM on your Subaru and you will keep it for a long time barring the unforeseen.
In hot Australia having the turbo on one side giving this engine uneven cooling. The 2L without turbo was too weak in auto hence they went to the 2.5L. I had the previous 2.2L naturally aspirated. It had great bottom end torque but the fuel consumption was way too high.
Fuel consumption was never a strong point especially with AWD. Good point on the heat with the turbo
@@speedkar99 When I bought the Liberty version in 2.2L I narrowly opted out of the 2L turbo because at the time they could not provide a cruise control. Handling was great and for a petrol (gas) it was unusually going thru 3 feet of water at times and never missed a beat! Electrics should be easier to water proof but so far only Chet from chilling with Chet has dared to test the impossible.
Hammer and punch. The tools of the cave mechanic rawr 🐯
You'd be shocked how many times i've used a hammer and puch doing regular maint on a sub 50k car.
Exactly! And it works
its salvaged because of the milkshake probably getting new one is cheaper then getting the engine out then replacing its 2 blown headgaskets ,, keep up the good work
Yes. Easier to replace than repair
Would love a video of how a turbocharger works!
Sure thing!
i like seeing this smart guy do his magic
i rebuild these engines with star gaskets and their easy if you love them as i do the better race bearings gd pistons etc
Very nice
Awesome
What year is that motor from?
Do a video on how a turbocharger works, would be awesome from you! :)
Thanks! I have a VW TDI setup here I'll use for that video.
Love the sound of this setup, HATE the weak engines. Had mine rebuilt twice, and it failed a 3rd time. Never touching a Subaru again. Also the idiocy of not being able to remove individual parts of the engine. Such poor servic-ability from a racing engine, really?
Sounds like poor rebuild, tuning, or maintenance.
I had 2 of them back in 2002, a Type R and RA. I was always shitting it that one of em would spin a bearing or some such! I was lucky but they are a liability.
A friend of mine worked at Honda dealership during early 2000s. And, sometimes if the Subaru guys were really busy, Honda mechanics worked on Subaru engines also, mostly the 2.5L variant (I'm not found of it at all - eg. valve guides coming out of the heads, something I haven't seen on other engines 🥴). Also failed cats (mrau), death CTV trannies. I don't get it what's the whole coolness in owning a Subaru. I heard the 2.0 with Turbo were quite reliable for a Subaru, manual gear box of course.
I've heard the same about the 2.0T. This one still bit the dust
You unbolting edits are so funny, almost musical.
I just tried that in my last two videos. It's cool but a tad longer to edit it like that.
Anyone tear down the new 2.4? Wonder what improvements have been made.
I think you should definitely do a video on how a Turbocharger works, would be interesting!
Would be cool to see a speedkar video explaining a turbo forced-induction setup overall, including the turbocharger itself, the wastegate, the intercooler, all the basics. I think many people would find that interesting.
@@sixstringedthing Precisely 👍
Thanks. I've got a VW TDI setup here to work with
@@speedkar99 looking forward to it mate, cheers from Sydney! Great videos, thanks!
Hot expanding exhaust spins turbine which is connected to compressor wheel. This sucks in and compresses cold air and makes cool spooly noises and car goes vroom.
Seeing how this is a 2.0 turbo ej engine, this is actually quite old and probably a high milage engine. This engine hasn't been used in North America market cars since around 2005.
Thank you!
Definitely do a turbocharger video.
Looks like the video quality isn't awesome for this video.
Seems like the HD version hasn't processed it
@@speedkar99 the video is now okay mate! Thank you 👏🏾
I've owned several Subarus with these boxer engines. The full shop manual for these cars (the models I owned anyway) clearly instructs the head bolts need to be re-torqued on a regular schedule for the first year or so (can't remember now). It's not optional. It seems no Subaru shop does this and Subarus get a reputation for blowing head gaskets. Well, duh. Nice cars, nice video.
Can you name another vehicle that requires frequent maintenance of the cylinder heads? Subaru has a design flaw that results in head gasket failure and destruction of #3 or cylinder.
I owned a 1979 ford D series truck, they had a reputation for blowing head gasket. manuel said that head needs to be retightened after 1000km. a process I went through, and didn't have any problem @@lewisg1736
Im not surprised to read this, givin the bad rap subs have.. I recon that a quick way to engine failure is to run 91 gas, and flog the arse of it, detonation will be lurking and will mess up things thing too. oil and filter are real cheap really...
Donut media just did a high low season with WRXs and they went through like 3 engines lol. And they took care of them.
You should be a Professor or a teacher, great explaining,!!!
Hello there sir, I have a question, my car's been acting up recently, sometimes during cruising down the road the engine looses power suddenly as if it was going to stall and the car lurches back and forth, lasts only a moment and happens 1-2 times a day during daily driving, do you know what could cause this? The car is 2006 Renault Megane 1.6 grandtour
Has the car been serviced to schedule? if so you may want to take it into a shop and get your E.C.U scanned for fault codes, this may be able to tell you what your problem is.
@@nzuncovered1845 Thanks for trying to help, we've managed to diagnose the problem, turned out it was the engine ground getting loose.
@@sample3279 That's good
Why subaru WRX engines fail:
1. No maintenance. Like checking oil level even once a week, and changing oil regularly goes a loooong way.
2. Excessive mods. Subies are easy to mod, but the stock engine isn't built to handle more boost than it has stock.
3. It goes fast, so owners redline the car and drop the clutch to launch really fast. I know a guy who does this at practically every green light with his WRX.
And often at least two of those three are combined. Sometimes even all three. The car is tortured, often boosted over what the engine and transmission can take, and regular maintenance is a distant dream.
This video is going to blow up
I hope so 😀
Yeah...like a Subie flatty!
I wanted the legacy gt with this engine for a while. Gotta accord v6 instead.
Good choice
Much more reliable
Smart move.
Serviced our 2011 outback regularly, changed tranny fluid every 60,000 and drove it 11 years and 257,000 km. It did blow a HG but other than that…it was a solid car.
257 k (160,000 miles) and a head gasket replacement is OK with you? We sold our Tacoma with 235,000 miles and the young guy who bought it is still driving it (without major mechanical work) years later.
One up for a video on the turbo charger!
Ej20's were very very good. The problem was an extreme lack of maintenance and incredible modification/abuse. Without a turbocharger that engine would easily run 300,000 mi or more. Super thick cylinder walls, long piston skirts, thick robust rods. Ej'25's suck, Subaru cheaped out and used the EJ20 casting. Basically bored out the block bigger and changed the crank for longer stroke.
I would LOVE !!! To see how a Subaru turbo charger works. :)
Same as other turbochargers. Hot expanding exhaust enters the turbine housing and spins the turbine wheel. This is connected to the compressor wheel which sucks in and compresses the incoming fresh air and sends it to the intercooler and then to the engine.
Need a turbo charger video!
Can you do a k24 from a Honda?
14:27, I could see the screws holding the oil pump were starting to back out. Yikes.
I noticed that too after examining the part.
@@speedkar99 I have heard that it's an issue on the 2.5 Turbos in Forester XTs In fact, I was joking with a coworker at the dealership I work at that you want a turbo Subaru until you have to work or have someone work on it.
I wanted to get a BRZ or an 86 before watching this video. Working on these looks like a nightmare now )))
My brother wants a BRZ to replace his supra ..
The FA engines in the 86's/brz/frs don't have near as many issues as the EJs. Just change your damn oil! Lol
Outstanding commentary of the tradeoffs to a boxer engine. It's clear why head gaskets fail, the open deck block. They must have the open deck block for the split block bolts. Timing belt turns to be better than long timing chains that fail from guide wear and tensioner issues.
There are many Subaru EJ engines that aren't open deck, they are known as closed deck, or semi-closed deck, they still have the holes for the block bolts but the rest is closed. They came in early Legacy RS and some version 1-3 WRX Sti's, also the later Sti EJ207 block is closed deck I believe. They also fail due to the head bolts being too small and because there just aren't many of them holding down each head. The head studs can be upgraded.