Should Sanderson finish Kingkiller Chronicles and Game of Thrones?
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- Brandon Sanderson's insane kickstarter has caused a resurgence in the whole "Sanderson can help finish Patrick Rothfuss' and George R.R. Martin's books!" And while it does occasionally seem like Sanderson is an AI of some sort, I have an issue with this line of thinking. Let me know what you think the comments below!
Also, yes, I know the series title is named A Song of Ice and Fire, but as it's more popularly known as Game of Thrones, and that's way shorter to say, I stick with that in this video :)
Chapters
00:00 - Why this is a discussion
00:55 - A history of post-humorous publication
05:05 - Should Sanderson finish other author's works?
09:19 - Poorly finished or left unfinished?
10:44 - Conclusions
Socials
Instagram: / bookborn.reviews
Amazon wishlist: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls... - Zábava
Two things. First I know I pronounced posthumously wrong… you don’t have to be the 100th person to tell me 🤣 just an honest mistake.
Despite me saying Sanderson is my favorite author, some people have take this video as license to trash him. Please stop. I love Sanderson dearly; it’s fine if you don’t like him, but understanding why he wouldn’t be a good fit (like I do) is not reason to belittle his accomplishments. Thanks!
Haters gonna hate..you should know this by now lol
You pronounced posthumously wrong 🙃😂
@@currangill430 ok now it’s WAR 🤣🤣
@@Bookborn Come at me bro!
@@Bookborn czcams.com/video/ZRDpC_QYG5k/video.html
Rothfuss and Martin should just co-author their books with each other. Or combine them and publish them as The Doors of Winter.
The publishers should pay you right now for this absolute money idea
George R.R. Martin and Rothfuss should absolutely bring in co-authors to help them finish their works. Getting help doesn't mean giving total control to someone else, and is certainly better than someone else finishing it after your death. It's as much stubbornness on the part of those two authors that's holding up the last books, as they don't want anyone else to contribute--or even give them help--even if they're patently unable to finish it in a timely manner.
Should Sanderson be the one to finish those? No. I agree with pretty much all of the points you made why he shouldn't, though my personal hope is that someday, someone will get the rights to A Song of Ice and Fire who wants to finish it after Martin is gone, and finds someone who does it as well as Sanderson finished the Wheel of Time. Unless Martin speeds up his pace, he's going to be in at least his late eighties by the time he gets a Dream of Spring out, and that's assuming he doesn't continue to get slower and slower, as he's been doing for decades now. While I do still think the Winds of Winter will eventually get published, the odds of Dream coming out in Martin's lifetime are honestly very slim, and if it somehow does, the rest of us still have over a decade of waiting left.
Ahhh I really like this take. I didn’t even consider the idea that “help” doesn’t mean ALL or nothing. A great point that maybe bringing in an author or editor super familiar and a Fan of the source material might get things rolling a little bit.
I'm also team co writers. Give them the easiest part to write them just re write to fit voice and style.
Sanderson was also essentially "groomed" by Robert Jordan's books. They were his favorite books growing up and he was a hardcore fan as the books came out. They are arguably the biggest inspiration for him to actually becoming a writer. So yeah
Yeah I totally forgot to mention that point but it’s vital. He wasn’t just someone random. He already knew a ton about the series. He was invested in it finishing well as just a fan!
@@Bookborn from what I remember he wrote an eulogy for Jordan and his widow read it and thought he was the right one to finish the story.
I love your take and thought the same thing. Sanderson has stated that he hasn’t read all the of the Song of Ice and Fire because he doesn’t enjoy it. Like you said, Sanderson writes transparent prose and Rothfuss is all about the prose.
Oh I had no idea Sanderson said that canonically! I remember him mentioning something about it when someone asked if he’d finish GoT. Didn’t realize he hadn’t finished the series even. Then that makes my point even more true.
@@Bookborn Yup! Said he found it too dark and repulsive.
The feeling of ownership by fandoms is something that has fascinated me for a long time since being introduced to the SFF community. Love that you tackle these concepts and hold up a mirror to fans relationship to art and artists
It's a tough relationship, for sure. I can understand being heartbroken about series not being finished, but the truth is that people change and what might have seemed like a dream job once may not be any longer.
This is the first time I've ever heard someone pronounce posthumously as "post-humorously." Was that intended as a joke, because I kept laughing every time you did?
lmao, this is what I came to the comments for!
Even slowed down the speed and put on CC to make sure I was hearing it right. Yep. "post-humorous" 😂😂
I have heard it pronounced slightly differently, depending on if someone pronounces the "post" in "posthumously" more like the 'post' in "posture" or the one in "compost" or on whether they pronounce the T & H as one sound or two separate sounds, and/or on how confident they are in knowing how it should be said(like..me..I lack _ANY_ confidence that I'm *ever* pronouncing 'posthumously' correctly myself👀😅😅😶🙃🤣)....buut, yeh, never heard it sound like there's an R in there before either. Cracked me up-thought it was super cute!💜🤭😹 😊
Made me think of Terry Pratchett, for some reason 😄
Heh. Me too. Although anyone finishing Martin’s work would have to do it “Post Humorlessly” to keep the proper tone! 😉
It was not a joke sadly I literally don’t know what’s wrong with me. I know the word and yet said it wrong every single time?? Like 😭😭😭 but it’s objectively hilarious in this context and here we are
Great video...one other thing I'd add about Sanderson's specific strengths in completing Wheel of Time was covered in his video about it, that being that he felt he was in a very small category of person- someone was a mega WoT fan and an accomplished writer. The chances of them getting someone who was both if he passed was slim, so AS A FAN he wanted WoT to do be done as much justice as possible. Even if Martin agreed to allow someone else to finish, and even if Sanderson could do Martin or Rothfuss prose, there is still the glaring issue that Sanderson wouldn't feel he was in that small category for those two series. IF someone should ever finish ASOIAF, it should be James SA Corey, which is Martin's former assistant (Ty Frank) and a well respected fantasy author who is one of George's close friends (Daniel Abraham). But as you said, he says repeatedly he wants nobody to do it haha.
Also regarding endings, I think I would prefer a slightly inferior ending...but not a bad ending. Endings are predominantly weighted in people's minds, the endpoint and highpoint of any experience is the part we remember most. So when an ending is bad, it usually blots out a lot of what we loved about something in the first place. People assume they'd rather have "any ending" but this is literally false, unfinished will always be more satisfying from a psychological perspective than a bad ending (although "bad ending" is relative to each individual). I would rather have five ASOIAF novels that I love, and make up an ending in my head, than have Ernest Cline try to finish them and end up giving me ASOIAF PTSD. 😅
As always Kyle we agree completely. Good point about endings too. Like if the ending sucks it would probably be worse over all then it unfinished. But as humans we rarely know what’s good for us so… 😂
I didn’t know James Corey was Martin’s assistant. Someone else mentioned maybe bringing in another author to not write it but rather HELP start it and then the original authors could finish it. That’s an interesting idea to me like not all or nothing.
By the time GRRM dies if there are enough notes you could probably get an AI to do the writing instead 😂
Post-humorously?? Ironically hilarious (edit: and kinda adorbs)
That R will get you every time. 🤣🤣
Kept distracting me every time she said it, but good video otherwise.
@stormd I think it's great. I didn't think it was "otherwise" a good video, but a good video _including_ a great chuckle or two
@@DocHoganThe mishap got an extra dimension when she talked about Eoin Colfer's addition to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I think, Colfer would hope that readers don't think of it as a post-humorous contribution. 😁
Personally if GRRM were to die and leave ASOIAF unfinished I would want to read his notes and unfinished manuscripts. But I also believe in respecting the wishes of authors, so if that's not what he wants then that's okay. Terry Pratchett had all of his unfinished works destroyed by his assistant after his death by crushing his computer and hard drives with a steam roller!
Great discussion. I like to imagine that if Robert Jordan was still alive we would have gotten 9 more wheel of time books before it was all finished. I would have loved that, but I still love what Sanderson did to finish it. On a different note, I wonder if Brandon is almost too good to his fans. Always updating us on where he is at, regularly writing and planning his books.
Lol I’ve always claimed it would’ve been 6 books but seems like we are still on the same page 😂 I felt the last three books were way faster paced so Jordan would’ve done more lol
Yes I think that’s sandersons largest strength. He’s sooo transparent. He’s had delays before but his fans don’t care because he’s so honest about it.
I love all three authors' work very much, and I will say absolutely no. I mean, you could, if you want to destroy their series. To put it simply, the prose in The Kingkiller Chronicle and A Song of Ice and Fire are too vastly different from Sanderson's prose.
I mean, then again, it is perhaps entirely possible[ especially since Sanderson writes his prose the way he does very intentionally-so] that he *_could_* possibly write in a completely different style than he usually does too...buuut YEAH! What you said 👍🏻
Yep absolutely agree!
IMHO GRRM already destroyed his series by selling the TV rights in advance of publishing the fifth book of seven.
Now he has seen the money in Hollywood and he is barely even trying to finish ASOIAF while he laps up all the money Hollywood can give him for basic scriptwriting.
Even if he does finish it there's a high chance it will be polluted by his experience post Game of Thrones popularity - which in my opinion also happened to JK Rowling and Harry Potter once Hollywood started churning out the films.
I agree that its a bit morbid. But that sentiment aside, I'd rather Sanderson focus on his own works. While I have many thoughts on the completion of series by the aforementioned authors (I have stronger opinions on one over the other...) it does lie in the hands of the artist to decide if his work needs to be continued posthumously. It appears that Sanderson might be tapping some people he trusts to be writers in the Cosmere, so that's kinda cool. Really, it just depends on what you're trying to build.
Ah a great point I didn’t bring up. Cosmere is already large enough that fans are worried 50 years in advance of him being able to finish 😂 we don’t need him taking any time away! Also DM me about your spicy opinions about either GoT or NoTW… I’m curious…
Hey! I just found your channel when I was looking for some grace of kings content. After seeing what you do, instant sub! I thought the methodical way you posed the question and then attacked the topic from various viewpoints (historical context, author strengths and weaknesses, etc.) was very scientific, almost lawyerly! Really appreciated this thoughtful take
Thank you so much! And glad to have you aboard :)
Wonderful take and breakdown per usual. Thank you for the extra deep dives into other famous works that were “continued”.
Thanks for watching :)
Happy reading to you!! 😊🦋
No one has to be Brandon Sanderson except Sanderson. Obviously we want to see the endings, but well, I'd rather the authors take their time and give us the legit endings the stories deserve. Let's give authors a break!
Edit: Or not finish too, I guess, if they so desire, but that's sadder for us. lol
Lol yes not finishing is obviously very sad for us. But I have sympathy for their positions tbh. Like I’m sure the ending of the GoT TV show and it’s reception was super hard on Martin. So I’d like to think fans want to give him the space to create what he wants, you know? Even if that sucks for fans.
@@Bookborn honestly i think if someone finished my story for me I'd lose most of my desire to finish it myself and more so with the poor reception. I don't blame him at all.
While it would be good. I say no, he should concentrate on The Stormlight Archive so I can read them all before I shuffle off my mortal coil. I'm 50 and would like to see them finished before I become too infirmed to enjoy reading them :)
The idea of Sanderson finishing anyone else's series is ridiculous. In addition to all the reasons you mentioned, even if Sanderson keeps up his insane pace, he still has another 20 years before he's finished with Stormlight Archive... not to mention the rest of the Cosmere and his other non cosmere works. Let's hope he can stay healthy enough to finish what he started and stop asking him to finish stories others have started. In my mind, asking him to finish their stories is also disrespectful to him. You're basically telling him you care about the worlds they've created more than you care about the worlds he's created.
There’s something both hilarious and dark about mispronouncing posthumously as post-humorously.
I know Sanderson just wrote 4 bonus books but I don't he has extra time to finish other people's novels. He has enough on his plate to trying to finish the Cosmere. The truth is no matter how desperately the fans want those series finished, it is up to the writer to decide to finish it.
I'm not saying that Sanderson is a bad writer (even though he's not my type of writer) but his typical writing style would ruin the series. Sando is all about hope and uses a very simple prose whereas Martin and Rothfuss have a more distinct voice. In a way, Martin has a voice per character, if you ever read Abercromibe it's much like but Abercrombie has a more dominating character voice. Rothfuss' voice is very flowery which makes sense since he's writing through the eyes of a bard. Like Martin and Abercrombie, he has a very dominant character voice. Obviously, we know who we are following since it's all from his pov.
Sando would be grossed out writing ASOIAF because it contradicts his beliefs especially given the fact that Martin doesn't shy away from writing sex scenes, graphic violence, and uses explicit language quite often. On top of that sexual violence is very prevenient in his writing. Something that Sando also shies away from.
Sand would not be able to replicate Rothfuss' flowery style of writing which he (Rothfuss) is so known for. Sanderson would not be able to overly describe things in such a way that it sounds like poetry. Sanderson has a very plain way of writing which I think is why I have always struggled reading his books.
The only writer who I think could capture Martin's writing if he were to pass would be Abercrombie or Hobb. Abercrombie said in an interview that he would never write for Martin because it would be uncomfortable for him given that he's a big Martin fanboy and that he feels that writing is very personal.
But neither Abercrombie nor Hobb would be able to capture the writing style of Rothfuss. His prose is just too unique and too different from any other author that they would fail miserably to capture his style.
Spot on as usual, bb :) I feel like a lot of times, people think we can separate a book from its author, and I don't think we can. I know it's not true in all cases, but I see books as personal extensions of an author, a piece of art. Books are more than a plot that we just need to see how it ends. They're unique, artistic expressions. It's like asking "who's going to make more Rembrandts, since Rembrandt isn't around to make more?" Nobody can do that.
Great video on an interesting topic. I wanted to add that Steig Larsson's life partner (of 32 years) actually has the manuscripts for the remainder of the Millennium series but because they were not officially married, by law, the estate (the brother and father) and the publisher won't allow her to publish them post posthumously. There is so much to this story. It's actually incredible frustrating when the new trilogy published by a different author, David Lagercrantz, is essentially fan fiction.
posthumously is one of my weaknesses too. That word *always trips me up.
First I just want to say that I love every video of yours they are always so thoughtful.
I agree with everything in this video especially the last point. I don't like posthumous work. I rather have a incomplete manuscript or serie. I can't explain why but for me a novel is something too personal to be write by someone else. This is the reason I never read WoT (I know every fan like the ending and they always tell me that) but the fact that it's not exactly the author ending weird me out (I like Sanderson personal work, nothing against him). ASOIF is my favorite serie of all time. I would rather just stop reading after Dance than reading it if it's written by someone else, same this with work like Berserk (the author died recently and this question was everywhere)
Sorry to nitpick. Nice video , but posthumous and posthumously are the correct versions right? Or is this an American versus British thing Im not aware of? :).
It is Posthumous. Typo, is my guess unless she did it on purpose to be humorous.
@@ugtznun ah okay!
@@ugtznun She was being post....humorous
Great thoughts and info in this video. And I agree with your conclusions here. I can't believe people even ask Sanderson those questions, so weird.
Maybe we should get some help for Melanie Rawn first. I've been waiting over a quarter century for the 3rd book in the Ruins series, lol!
On a serious note. Sanderson did a serviceable job finishing up the WoT, I don't love it, but I don't hate it. Those were obviously more drastic circumstances. Overall, I don't love the idea of other authors taking up someone else's work.
Agree with you. In extreme circumstances maybe, but there is a reason an author created a work. It's most likely uniquely suited to them.
Completely agree with all your points (as usual)! Not only is it insulting to the authors working on those series, but it is kind of insulting to Sanderson too. Like... he has his own stories he wants to write. Why would someone as popular as Sanderson drop everything to write someone else's series?
Sanderson is incredibly talented in specific ways. He would be a horrible choice for the beautiful prose of Rothfuss or the dark nuance of Martin.
Everyone should also read Guy Gavriel Kay. He is so damn talented.
Also, I think your pronunciation of 'posthumous' is very... humorous... 😜
I think there are some people that need to remember that these authors owe us nothing and sometimes we put too much emphasis on their work and nothing towards them as a person. For example I've seen so many people complain about Rothfuss not finishing Doors of Stone but don't care enough to have any sympathy for his mental health. There are reasons as to why he hasn't finished it yet and I think we need to he more understanding of an authors life situation.
There is a series I read that the author hadn't yet finished and was writing the last book. When I read it, the most recent book had already been out 8 years. Now 5 years later I found out he had recently passed away and at first I was upset that he had never finished. But soon felt bad, as I had found out he didn't get around to writing it because one of his sons had serious medical issues and he really wasn't able to write as much as a lot more of his time was invested taking care of his son. I felt bad that my first thought of his passing was anger at him for not finishing, and realized I don't know the full story and am not in a place to judge. Yes we can be disappointed that an author passes before they finish their work, but I think we need not dwell on it.
If GRRM were to pass away before finishing ASoIaF, how many people would obsess about getting it finished? How much would people focus on his unfinished works rather than celebrating the works that he did give us.
That is what bothers me about people constantly asking about series getting finished. Sometimes it feels they don't care too much about the author as a person. We were lucky that Robert Jordan wanted his works to be finished by another author and we need to not expect the same for every series.
100% behind this ☝
Perfect
I only hope Sanderson will be able to finish the stormlight archive! The way he's able to write all these new novellas is beyond me! I only care for SA tho, so I hope he doesn't get lost in his own sea of words
Yes, I love how people commented on something I didn't even say here, which is - we want Sanderson working on his own stuff! We're already worried about not getting our last Hoid book LOL
I someone once suggested Joe Abercrombie finish Game of Thrones.
that said I respect Martin's wishes
Absolutely. (I mean, at least Abercrombie makes more sense in terms of what they write about... but like you said, Martin's wishes are what's important here, imo)
I didn't even know that this was a thing! I've only read Sanderson's works, and haven't gone near either Game of Thrones or Kingkiller Chronicles, so I wasn't even aware that people wanted Sanderson to finish those series. I would say no, because I would like Sanderson to use his time creating more of his stories, rather than someone else's. Although finding *time* to write doesn't seem to be a problem for Sanderson hahaha
like it or not - 75 is pretty much the median age when a person starts winding down. I'm sure GRRM knows this. he's a smart man, and I would be surprised if he doesn't put this down at some point....but I wouldn't be surprised if he just decides to not finish it.
Which is why I'm not buying anything else he does.
Totally agree with everything you just said.
(also, I actually very much enjoyed BS's wiring for Mat)
I haven't read Kingkiller, but for ASOIAF Sanderson is definitely not the guy for the reasons you mentioned. He has also stated that he never went past book 1 of the series because it wasn't at all what he likes, so the assumption that he might ever finish it is ludicrous, he respects the writing but isn't a fan of the story. On top of that, Sanderson has also noted that Martin was asked to provide a cover blurb for Elantris, and refused because he didn't think it was the style of fantasy that his readers prefer and giving it a blurb would be misleading people in terms of what to expect from the book. So yeah, definitely don't see that happening at all.
And I 100% agree that it is super disrespectful to talk about this constantly while the authors are still alive. Both for the original author and for authors who get asked if they would finish the series in interviews.
Very good video and discussion 👍
YES!!
I'll watch the video asap.
Agreed with everything you said. Something that people don't always consider is how authors have also their styles that they feel comfortable writing and you can't ask them to simply write a story in a genre they are not familiar or experienced in. The second thing would be how it's not simply ok to ask someone else to continue the work of someone else and many writers don't like it at all. Herge (writer of tin tin series) also said: after me there will be no more Tintin. Tintin is my creation-my blood, my sweat, my guts".
I guess collecting one's notes would be the middle ground in this context, but nothing more than that for my taste.
Have not read Sanderson or Rothfuss,and don't plan to any time soon, but have read all of ASOIAF. And from what I have seen of Sanderson, he wouldn't even crack my top 10 of people to finish ASOIAF.
Just because he cranks out a lot of pages is not an indication of ability to finish someone else's work. If that is the criteria why not ask Stephen King?
Hobb or Lawrence are much more viable options, although I doubt either would even entertain the idea.
And yes, Christopher Tolkein just edited/compiled the notes.The issue with Brian Herbert is that he actually wrote from the notes, allegedly, to various degrees of success.
Yeah I think the even bigger issue is that Martin expressly doesn't want someone writing his work. So WHO would be the best person doesn't even matter lol
I like Rothfuss' "voice", and wouldn't want BS to influence that beyond motivating Patrick to hurry tf up.
As far as GRRM.... I honestly couldn't care less. Unlike Rothfuss, who I feel lacks motivation and/or direction, it has felt more like GRRM abandoned his fanbase.
Rothfuss is a perfectionist he didn't lack motivation rather he was struggling with depression and anxiety. He made a video a while back apologizing. Martin on the other hand I give two fucks whether Winds came out or not. I do agree with you though that I feel Martin has abandon his fanbase and is just eating up the money that GoT made for him.
@@currangill430 i feel as if this is a little harsh .. considering he does give periodic updates to say that he IS actually still working on it .. just because he's also juggling working on a ton of other things at the same time[ largely things he couldn't have anticipated would ever come up at all until after the tv series had come out and also seen the success that it did] doesn't mean he's lying and not actually working on it at all.
I think people's optimism about whether he'll actually finish it or not says more about them than it does about him, honestly. 🤷♀️🤷
And just because GRRM doesn't ever talk about it, doesn't guarantee that his mental health hasn't also been a factor for him also. It is often people who don't talk about it at all, and/or those who always put on big happy smiling faces, who struggle the most. So, you really never know.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 That's fair.
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 It's just frustrating. But at the end of the day if George never finishes ASOIAF it will still go down as one of the best fantasy epics ever imo.
@@currangill430 and I definitely get/understand that-I think that's totally fair, as well. 🙂
(I also have other authors I love who have never finished series too, and it is definitely frustrating sometimes.)
..yet, I just can't help but imagining, just in case...what if he maybe really IS having struggles that no one else even knows about, how much worse is all this open pressure and negativity likely making it?😿 👀 Y'know?
I think too much, I guess 😅😅 😁 Lol 😊
But...memes :'(
For real, this was a great look at the situation. As an aspiring author the idea of someone else writing any of my work feels really invasive. But that's me.
Ok but I do legit find the memes funny lol like the one where they claim Brandon used a hemalurgy spike to steal writing speed LOL I just don't like when it gets serious
RE: The Millennium series/trilogy. It was not exactly done without permission. It was Larsson's partner, Eva Gabrielsson, not his sister, that had his notes for the fourth book. But his estate went to Larsson's father and brother (per Swedish law as they never married) and they are not exactly on good terms. The father and the brother gave the green light to write more books in the series, and the "job" went to David Lagercrantz. Gabrielsson has indicated that she would like to finish the fourth book but as the estate went to Larsson's family, Swedish law obstructs this.
Great video! Every situation is different, so it's hard to have one rule. If a trilogy or series is one long story, then I would like to have the story finished after an author passes. If not, then I'm good.
For instance, Tolkien had already wrapped up LOTR, and the Christopher Tolkien assistance was really on bonus materials. The Brian Herbert stuff (I read the first three) does not hold a candle to Frank, and most of the books are filler rather than a conclusion to the story. The Frank books weren't really one long narrative anyway.
You didn't mention the Stephen King situation, where his near-death experience with the vehicle accident caused him to get writing on the final three Dark Tower books. It's a good reminder that no one is guaranteed a certain number of years, no matter their age. Speaking of age, I would politely disagree with your assertion that someone in their 70's has plenty of time left. He writes one book every 10 years or more, and has at least 2 books left in the series. Are you expecting him to finish the last book when he's 95? I'm not saying it's impossible, and I wish him good health, but maybe it's a smarter move to just get the book written now.
I love the topics of your videos! Keep up the good work. (Pronunciation be damned!)
I think, especially with regards to Rothfuss, wrapping up with an imperfect version would be a travesty, simply because of his prose. I'd actually rather not get the last book in this case. But he'll finish it, eventually. At which point, just like reading Jordan's work from the beginning from 1990 on, if one of the books took a little longer to come out, (some spanned 2-3 years before the next book, and 5 years before Sanderson finished it), I simply reread the entire series to prime myself for the next book. Simple as that. Patience is a virtue...
One other note regarding Sanderson finishing WoT. Jordan was a _huge_ inspiration for him! He _loved_ the WoT series and it was one of the books that inspired him to write. Plus, it was his thoughts on RJ's books, within a blog post shortly after Jordan's passing, that Harriet McDougal approached him with the offer to finish the series. So he had a strong connection with the series and, in the end, after much procrastination, decided he didn't want to see some non-fan or less than stellar writer finish it, making his decision.
P.S. - And I'm sorry, but people are way too self entitled. These authors have lives of their own and have every right to live them as they wish. People change all the time. An author could go into a series thinking this is their dream job, but one day decide they just don't enjoy writing anymore, (not saying this is the case with these authors), or whatever change of heart or mindset they have. We have no right to expect or demand anything from them without being personally attuned to their lives. Sure, it's entirely unfortunate that a book series we love might suffer from this, but if our parents did any kind of good job bringing us up, we've had the "life just isn't fair" discussion. And that's just the way it is. I'm very much a "life is only as bad as your reaction to it", kind of guy, and if some author I like turfs a series, oh well, move on to another, there are many great authors out there!
yes, yes YESSS to all of this. I wish I would have mentioned what a big fan Sanderson was of WOT and how he had followed it for so long, because I do think that just adds another layer to how weirdly specific his ability to finish the series was. And I can't agree more about people changing their mind. Like it sucks, but that's life. Not everything gets finished.
I agree with everything you said besides that people read kkc mostly dor the prose and nit the plot. My fav author is sanderson (in other words i dont care about lyrical prose that much) but i love kkc for the plot and characters. The plot is quite unique in the sense that its a tragedy with a broken man telling his story how he came from the great „wizard“ to be what he is now. Also i love the characters (kvothe is annoying but so well realized and deep and NOT a mary sue) and the world (it isnt the most orginal but feels vers cozy and has so many details)
I fully agree on all counts, and while I was very happy that the Wheel of time got written and thought Brandon did an amazing job of it, I feel like I’d rather he write his own stories than finish those other ones for George or Pat.
Yeah, that's a super important thing I didn't cover in this video - Sanderson has enough to get on to finish the Cosmere as it is 😂
Just saying as huge fan of Jordan, I liked the books of WoT that Sanderson wrote more. Nit just because the story was coming to climax. He gave new life the the story (kind of literaly). I just enjoyed those more.
I think there is a subset of the fandom that for sure feels this way! For me, I just can't separate it being the "end" from whether or not it was Sanderson or Jordan, you know?
Don't get me wrong I loved Jordan's books. Going through the books again, on audio this time, I found it hard to differentiate the authors, let alone pin point the change. Mostly because Sanderson kept as much of Jordan's text as he could to make the story. He stayed true but still some how made it better.
Another thing is that GRRM has time and the opportunity to finish same with Patrick. But recently I just come out that George just didn't work on it doing other stuff. I understand it can be nerve-racking and difficult to write a book for millions of people but there comes a point when you just got to put it out.
From an outsider who knows nothing (lol), I get the sense that Martin doesn't mind working on other things because he doesn't have this BLOCK with it. Like the man LIKES to work but I think right now finishing the series is just so difficult that he avoids it.
I also want to add that a new rumor that Rothfuss' new book is coming out July 11th.
Sanderson touching Rothfuss’s work???? If that’s not the worst blasphemy I have ever heard, I don’t know what is.
All jokes aside, I appreciate your video. There are many branches, styles, and preferences within the fantasy genre. Personally, I despise what Sanderson does, I do not like his writing, worldbuilding, or anything for that matter, whereas Rothfuss is pure reading bliss (although also having flaws, nobody’s perfect). To me, Sanderson touching Rothfuss’s book would be akin to Stephen King touching Dickens or Donna Tartt. You can like whatever you like, but that just doesn’t make sense.
No. He's no poet. Their writing styles are too different and it would be jarring. I disagree completely.
The silmarillion pronunciation is hilarrrriousss😭😭 it’s sim-er-ill-e-on
I know this video has been out for a while but I just discovered it, so it's new to me!
When I hear people say that Sanderson should finish the books (whether they're serious about this suggestion or not), I never took it to mean that they think Martin or Rothfuss are on death's door but that they should just pass on the task to Sanderson while they are still alive.
Therefore, I don't consider the suggestion macabre.
It is very silly, though.
Apart from the fact that Sanderson is more than busy enough with his own universes by this point, his writing style is not the one that would fit best.
By the way, the situation with Larsson is a little different from how you presented it. IIRC, the sequels are authorized by his family who are his legal heirs but his long-time partner is in possession of Larsson's laptop that has the manuscript. They were not married for security reasons; Larsson, due to his journalistic work investigating extremist circles, didn't want to endanger his partner. (I hope I remember this correctly.) So that's why she (his long-time girlfriend) does not have a legal say in potential sequels.
The good thing, for readers, is that the books are structured in a way that you can stop reading after each book without the story feeling incomplete. I read all three books published by Larsson but I didn't read the ones by Lagercrantz because I was simply not interested in a story that he had to make up whole cloth. I would have loved to keep reading Larssons vision (I think he had planned 10 books in total) but alas, it was not meant to be.
I'd rather have Asoiaf left unfinished than see it finished by sanderson
Maybe Patrick and George should finish each other's works.PERHAPS that'll motivate them (I say this with the upmost bitterness)
😭
The doors of stone is finished to some degree. It's not in the perfect state Rothfuss wants it be, but his editor could pull together what he has and publish it. I don't think another author needs to come in and do anything. As for Martin, I think the next book doesn't need a lot of work, but someone could come in pull together what he has for book seven and fill in the gaps. I don't think someone else could end the book series as badly as the tv show (so I've heard since I haven't watched it).
Ok so I haven't been following Rothfuss carefully over the years - I like the Kingkiller's but I got bored of updates after the first few years, I'll admit (FAKE FAN lol). But is it finished? I Heard a rumor it was finished a while ago, and then heard that that was a lie, and now I know he's released the first two chapters... so do we think there is A version done now?
When he first got the publishing deal for the trilogy, all three book were finished in some form. I think originally he wrote it as one book that kept growing and growing until he decided to split it up. So when Name of the Wind was published, he thought book 2 would be out soon, but then he realized all the changes he would have to make because of changes he made to book 1, so he spent maybe 4 years getting that rewritten. Book 2 included a bunch of new things on top of what was redone to align with book 1, so he's had to do a lot of rewriting for book 3 to incorporate all of that. It doesn't explain the 11 plus years it's taken him. His dad died and he split with his longtime girlfriend (the mother of his two kids) since book 2 has come out and battled with depression and other things as a result. I also heard a rumor that someone online accurately guessed the ending of book 3 or some major reveal or something that sent Rothfuss into a tailspin trying to rework everything. But I don't put any stock into that rumor because I don't feel like his books are necessarily all about the big reveal or some shocking twist. I've been following his blog since a few years before The Wise Man's Fear came out, so I've cleaned a lot between that and other things he's posted on facebook and CZcams. A fair amount of this is conjecture, but I feel confident if something tragic should happen, there currently exists an amazing if not perfect book 3.
Regarding Christopher Tolkien's work on J.R.R. posthumous works, Christopher was very involved in Tolkien's work during Tolkien's life. "The Hobbit" literally started as a bed time story for Tolkien's children. Beyond that, Christopher was a proof reader, he helped edit, he helped Tolkien with continuity, and was even a member of the Inklings. Their relationship, not just as father and son, but as some semblance of partners in Tolkien's writing was extremely unique.
I agree with you, though, that Sanderson shouldn't finish other living author's stories. For multiple reasons. As you said, that's macabre. It's also not the authors' wishes (which in Martin's case is kind of funny, because he seemed ok with others finishing his story for an HBO show that paid him tons of money). And also, I don't think authors who neglect to finish their own work (for reasons other than some sort of life circumstance that truly prevents them from writing) should get bailed out. I'd love to see a change in the author/publisher/reader relationship where authors don't feel pressured to bite off more than they can chew. Whether this means more stand alone novels or shorter series when an author just doesn't have it in them to write these long epic series. I think it would improve the overall quality of the fantasy genre and would alleviate the frustration from fans when series go unfinished or have huge waiting gaps between books.
I completely agree!! It is inappropriate and I would even take it a step further. I think fans sometimes have an odd idea or conceptions about "ownership" Who do these stories actually belong to? I'm of the mindset that the creations are the property of the creator. As fans we enjoy the art but are not the artist. We are not owed anything, and I think that gets forgotten a lot.
All this 👍
At this point there is a second question to ask... do we even care if these stories are finished now, I was big into ASOIAF but it's been years and i, for one, no longer care if the story is finished or not
I haven't read ASOIAF but I feel the same about kingkillers. I cared for a while but now I barely remember the second book and am over it! But if it DID come out...I'd probably read it haha
That’s a hilarious premise
I like the memes about this. Did you see the one with the Hamilton lyrics of "how do you write like you're runnin out of time"?
Hilarious!
Also does Zack know that Sando is your fav author? 👀👀 lol
Hm... i'd prefer unfinished and publish nothin more. Like the amazing spiderman movie series. I prefer to have the room to imagine rather than have smth canon to limit this imagination, and I think it's not a stretch to say that many would prefer that because many readers have avid imagination.
Also... if I may be so bold to offer... I think an interesting follow up video can be speculation on what prevents authors from finishing their work on time/ in general before they pass away. Maybe have Zack's opinion also.
I have many thoughts about this myself... Like... I can see Martin being unmotivated because his story was told to the end. Some of it in a show, but like, still, the story is told, so u lose some of the drive to finish the writing of the book.
Alsoooooooo
Dragon Lance is another great example that may be worth discussion :)
Should we have some contemporary artist finish the great & notable unfinished paintings or sculptures?
Offering my opinion before being influenced by the vid. In my opinion, no he shouldn’t. I’m not a Sanderson diehard fanboi, but the guy deserves to be known for his own IPs. Also, I don’t think all popular series need to end with a similar author’s style.
How about Abercrombie to finish ASOIAF?
A lot of people also don't realize that Sanderson had the wife's blessing and enough notes for 3 books. Also the ending was given so he just had to sort of cobble it all together. It would be insanely hard to finish Gsame of Thrones or Kingkiller without notes or blessings. The pressure alone would be unfair.
Not to mention Jordan knew he was dying and was getting things ready. I remember reading about it in High School a year or two before he passed. He said he wrote all the important bits of the then final book, including the ending so that someone could come behind him.
Loved the content and subject, but there is no “r” is posthumously. Sorry to troll.
It’s not trolling. Idk what happened to me the day I filmed this like wtf 😭😭😭
Brando Sando said he only read the first ASOIAF. He did not like the grim nature of it.
That's why I don't understand people even on ASOIAF groups saying "Brandon finish ASOIAF for Martin!"
Yeah, we can all think of a number of reasons why it would be a bad idea, for both Sanderson and his peers, but it's just such a funny meme!
If anything, it wouldn't make sense given their writing styles. They're nothing alike. It would be jarring.
As much as I enjoy Sanderson, this would be a bad idea all around. Sanderson is very aware that he is tonally very different. And he is detailed at ideas, but not the king of prose.
They definitely need help to finish but Sanderson might not be the right fit. He said on video he wouldn't finish GoT as its too dark. But he will be better off working on cosmere as we are a long way off.
I agree that Sanderson would not be a good fit to finish the books of Martin or Rothfuss and people should stop asking for it. It is an interesting question to ask if you would still want the work in an imperfect state from someone else anyway. Wheel of Time was unique that it lined up with Sanderson's schedule so he had time and he was the right writer to do it, with extensive notes and outlines and Jordan's wife/editor to help guide him. Even then fans have complaints about how Sanderson wrote it and Sanderson admits he got some things wrong like how he wrote Mat. But, I am still glad that we got that ending and feel it was the best we could get with Jordan gone. Recently the creator of the manga Berserk has passed away. It is one of the most popular and epic mangas and it is sad that we will never see the ending that he would have intended because even with extensive notes (I don't know if he had any notes left), no one could draw it and create it like he would have. I feel like with Rothfuss, I would maybe want to see a bare bones outline of where the story was going but I wouldn't want to read a full book because it wouldn't have his prose/voice so it wouldn't be worth it. I pray for Sanderson's health so he can finish the Cosmere over the next 20-30 years ;) I know he has notes and outlines, but that is still evolving as he goes and I want to see how it will turn out from him doing it
Pretty much agree across the board with your points here. It's very creepy when people start discussing one author finishing another living author's work. There's a very ugly entitlement and disrespect for all authors evident in that behavior.
Sanderson was well suited to finishing Wheel of Time, for all the reasons you've outlined. Even though I have plenty of problems with those three books, I do still appreciate that they exist. We definitely still retain some of Jordan's voice and vision in those three books. It's pretty unfair to Sanderson that people try to drag him into this conversation for books he doesn't want to write.
Although I'm frustrated that rothfuss Is taking his sweet time to finish king killer, there is no way sanderson could finish the work. Don't get me wrong Sanderson is undoubtedly one of the greatest epic fantasy authors to this day. The problem is the writing styles are so different, sanderson is straight to the point; this guys going here to do this and it will be awesome when he does... where as rothfuss is poetic maybe even shakespearian the way he writes, its more like a play than a novel and sanderson couldn't possibly capture the beauty that rothfuss shows in his literature, even though he's one of the greats of this day and age. They might be the same genre collectively but individually they couldn't be further apart.
Also I agree with you, the fact we're discussing this pre humourless is a little sick and very fucking disrespectful. I just thought I'd show my love for two geniuses anyway. Much love , long live kalladin, long live kvothe lol
Love this comment for the reminder that we can live BOTH STORIES AND AUTHORS without constantly pitting them against each other!
I know I'm late to the party with some of your older postings, but I'm with you 100%
I find it disturbing, and insulting to the authors, to even bother asking if Sanderson or ANYONE would step in and finish a series.
It shows how some fans truly have become vicious, and greedy, and quite entitled where undeserved. I get it, I would love to read the third Kingkiller. When I finally read GoT, I would love for it to be complete and feel satisfied with the conclusion. But I wouldn't have the balls to reach out to any author and make such ridiculous demands or suggestions.
Like when Stephen King sat on the Dark Tower books between installments. I wouldn't think to reach out to my literary hero and say "how about we ask Dean Koontz to wrap up Dark Tower for ya??"
**Fun Fact -- Dacre Stoker teamed up with JD Barker and used Bram Stoker's notes to publish a very, very cool prequel to Dracula. I had a blast reading it. It felt true to the classic!
I agree with your analysis that is kinda creepy that Sanderson is constantly asked to finish other people's work. Not only does he have to work on his series but GOT and the kingkiller Chroncile series. Sanderson probably would reject the offer as both series have different writing style and tone from his past works. The kingkiller Chroncile series will be completed at some point, Rothfuss has a lot of time to spare to complete the trilogy. George R.R Martin on the other hand not so much. As a fan of the books I have accepted the fact GOT will not be completed. It is been over a decade since the fifth book was released and we still have no release date for The Winds of Winter. Do you really think that George RR Martin in his eighties will be working on A Dream of Springs assuming that he completes the sixth book? GOT should serve a reminder why its better to wait until the series is completed before it gets adapted. There is no doubt that the success of the show is the reason why the series is incomplete. It is not accident after the successful premiere of GOT on HBO that The Winds of Winter kept getting delayed.
Personal opinion: final books in A Song of Ice and Fire series are completed since long ago. But Martin just want to troll us and publish them the day after he dies.
Posthumorously because the delays stopped being funny a long long time ago. As to the topic, it’s clear no one can connect the world as well as GRRM, the show is the proof. As for Kingkiller, Rothfuss writes so beautifully that I don’t see anyone matching his style. Still hoping they finish what they started.
I really wish I had made the mistake on purpose so I could claim the joke lol
If he does, then we're officially nicknaming him "The Closer".
I am going to say unfinished. I think that the. Wheel of Time series really needed to be finished by someone. It also leaves Sanderson free for his other series. Very good video by the way.
I would prefer for it to be left unfinished. I like to compare with food. If my grandma started making me some food than she passed and someone else finished making it and it ended up being bad. I would not "feel grateful that I got to eat the food" I would feel grossed out and regretful.
We dune fans are not divided on Brian Herbert our hate for him is what unites us as a fandom
Typo in the description: " A history of post-humorous publication "
I would have to say no. While I love Sanderson, I think his "voice" just wouldn't jell with those two series. If anything, I'd have to give my vote to Joe Abercrombie or just leave them unfinished.
Joe or Hobb imo
Post-humorously
That's perfect unintentional black humour.
I don't need to re-state what you just said. Yes Sanderson and Martin have vastly differenty writing. I also think that Sando would get uncomfortable with the eplicit language that Martin uses. If for example Martin does die only Abercrombie or Hobb imo would be able to capture Martin's world faithfully but that being said Abercrombie said in a recent interview that he would never do it because he has too much respect for Martin and the books to do it plus he said writing is very personal.
I don't think Dune suffered from Brian Herbert as much as it got really weird after the first few books.
I am very frustrated with Patrick and George but they are still alive. Also I believe Sanderson was a big fan of Robert Jordan and am not sure if that is the case of the other two. If they were dead maybe it would be a conversation but they are not.
Pretty sure I will not go back to Song of Fire and Ice as it was getting convoluted in his last book. I have mostly written off the series because it has been so long since the last book. I have no real desire to go back and read it over again to refresh my memory which is kind of needed now.
I really like the Kingkiller Chronicle but am getting close to writing it off too. It has been so long that I am kind of over it. Love the books but not enough to wait indefinitely for the next book. There are plenty of other authors out there with books to read that are not making their fans wait for the perfect book.
Posthumous has no "r" in it, also "post" has a short o. Im not trying to nitpick, I am a fan and enjoy your videos
I'm basically with you on this one. I totally agree, it's completely inappropriate. And, personally, I think it's purely or at least largely self-entitlement and/or impatience driven too.
If fans were entitled to a finished series, no one would ever knowingly publish a first book without also having the last book completed beforehand. Sometimes shite happens, either internally or externally, and things change; sometimes people don't always get what they want, whether they are fans or authors themselves. This is just life.
I'm sure there are some people who would rather not have something at all than have something unfinished forever-but personally I would rather have had and appreciated something at all, than have never had it at all.
Given the amount of great books and sagas out there, asking for a mediocre or even good but not original author sequel/finishing notes is, for me, completely un-understandable. I'd rather sagas are left unfinished ALL THE WAY, no excuses. I've never even read The Silmarillion, which I consider just LOTR fanfic, which I may read on that basis, though XD.
I've never heard of Rothfuss (commences walk of shame I guess) but _everyone_ knows of Martin because of THAT TV show. My personal take on it is that Martin doesn't know how to finish the books now - certainly not in a way that will please both sets of fans - TV and books that is. Hence the procrastination and public hand wringing at semi regular intervals and is why I've regretfully accepted that we will never get the original story by the original author and ASOIAF will remain uncompleted.
With that in mind, I'd rather Sanderson sticks to his own projects. He knows his public well and rarely disappoints them.
Sanderson did show respect to Robert Jordan when he finished his books. If Sandersons name was not on those last 3 books i would have assumed Jordan wrote them. I honestly think that is why his name comes up. Even if it does not match his style. I am mixed on GRRM not wanting anyone to finish his books. They are his creation. But people have paid him millions for these books. Should he give that money back? Kinda like a plumber only plumbing the sink and not the shower and then claiming that it is his plumbing cause he created it.
It is really hard to see an author who has made literal millions from his fans not "give back". But, at the same time, I can sympathize with the pressure he's feeling.
@@Bookborn i guess i am not really interested in reading them anymore. The show took care of that. So i cant fault him for losing interest finishing the series. I just dont understand why he wont get any help. Delegate the responsibility.
I agree that it's morbid in the case of Rothfuss, who is still young. However, Martin is in his mid-70's, has not published in over a decade, and indicates that he doesn't seem all that interested in working on the series anymore. So I think the conversation is fair in his case.
As dumb as it is with all the people being so shitty with Rothfuss and Martin, people were pretty bad with Jordan even AFTER HE DIED. When I first got on Dragonmount in 2008 there were people personally complaining about the unfinished series. It was insane. I wanted to point out that he didn't choose to die. I've even met people personally upset with Sanderson for not publishing Stormlight Archive faster. It's ridiculous. Authors don't owe anybody anything. They write for the same reason trees grow. It's what they do.
SOMEONE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS and it literally blows my mind. how could fans be angry and blaming Jordan after *he died*. The internet really is a cesspool 😭
Yeah, I think the only case where finishing another author's work is acceptable is when that author dies and/or when that author wants someone else to finish their work for them. Personally, if any author passed away before they completed a series, then I would want someone else to step in to finish, but despite that, if an author (like Martin) didn't want anyone to work on it, then I think we should respect their wish, even though that would suck haha
Famous old series were added to by others, the Sherlock Holmes series/Conan Doyle and the Oz books/Baum among them. I'm not sure that modern series won't suffer the same fates, like the Tolkien legendarium (becomes public domain in some countries just next year 2023), and especially when their respective copyrights expire, books as the song of ice & fire series, HP & the wizarding world books, and the dark materials series, and totally irregardless of these books authors' expressed wishes. This is the real world and continuing on with popular series makes $$ and makes some fans happy.
Not gonna lie it will be worth the wait for Harry Potter, because someone will make a series about James and Co. JK really dropped the ball not capitalizing on that.
I don't know the chronicles series or its author, but i seriously would not be surprised if GRRM has the last book finished and it won't be published until after his demise. Rumor said that he did give the TV adapters copius notes on how he expected the series to go, should he pass away, but that does not really jibe with the adapters saying they had no idea how to finish the series and went with what we seen.
Sanderson did a great job with finishing wheel in my opinion, given how long in between books we waited with wheel of time. Was not really too invested in the Dune universe, but beyond children of dune, that series was all over the place anyways. At this point in his career, with his own body of works, I would have no problem if he declined to finish the series. The last thing you want is the fans to lambaste you for completing something not even yours, and fans not being happy or grateful.
Before watching the video, I'm going to come out and say it. No. Not only is he not the correct fit, but Rothfuss has been going on about book 4 (a new series in the same world) on his vlog and he hasn't even published book 3. As far as Martin, Sanderson has stated many times that he is ill fit to write like Martin.
But he should finish Runelords #9 (A Tale of Tales) by David Farland (Dave Wolverton), who was Sanderson's writing professor at BYU and got Brandon started with finding an agent, etc.
Dave died Jan 14, 2022 (64) after suffering injuries from a fall. Book #9 was to be the final book in the series and for the last 2 years has shown 80% done on the first draft. I'm relatively certain it was further than that as Dave wasn't really known for updating his site regularly. I also feel this series suits Sanderson's style well.
Now I'm off to watch the video. Have a great day.
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EDIT: what's with "post-humorous"?
EDIT2: Not making fun. I thought you were funnin* with us until later in the video. I'm sure others have written it out. posthumously
*thinking "funnin" in my best Ron Perlman voice.
EDIT3: Average life expectancy of a man in the US is 78 years, and Martin doesn't exactly look fit. (Most writer live a sedentary life)