Listened to all John,'s latest posts, and have no trouble agreeing with his latest arguments. I like John's thinking on buying the best card no matter what holder. I actually feel SGC is the most consistent grader but I also understand your desire to buy PSA since you participate in the PSA registry. I also agree since I am in my 7th decade wisdom comes with time, as I have made a ton of mistakes and I have learned a lot and continue learn everyday from my many mistakes. Like that philosophy.
Two amazing vintage collectors showing everyone the ropes #YLTSI great conversation guys as always this show stays being a highlight of my week and is a must listen for vintage collectors young and old
Thanks for another great video. have been out of the scen for quite a while, prefer the vintage and always have but am enjoying catching up with pulse of the vintages genre from Mike,John,blue jacket and Rick.. keep it up!!
Great podcast guys! Really enjoyed the discussion and thoughts. Hopefully those new to vintage collecting realize the best ways to be happy with your collection and purchases is to just buy the cards they love. Bottom line. No matter the shape that takes. Slabbed, not slabbed (raw? Hahaha), beat up, card saver, etc…. I’m loving the hobby more than ever as I learn what I like to collector more and more!
With grading prices returning to normal, this may be a great avenue for people to learn more. I buy raw and grade. I started with the 80's and learned quite a bit on how grading companies evaluate cards. With prices returning to $10 to $15 in 2023, this would be a great way for people to learn. HOF rookies from 1981 to 1985 would be prefect for this. I then moved into the 70's, 60's, and 50's. Right now, I will buy anything raw or graded from T206 cards to modern Topps/Panini HOF on-card autos. Making mistakes is important, but don't start any cards over $50 to $100 in the beginning.
I am a collector 99% of the time. I tend to use eBay and I usually only buy graded cards and the grade isn't that important. I've seen 2's and 3's that, in my mind, look like a 5 to 7. Maybe the grader that day had too much to drink the night before? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and at the end of the day in comes down to, do I like the card? That's all that matters. Great video guys!
Mike Thanks for sharing this Hobby History 💯👍 Two Legends on one Stream ❤️🔥 John is one of the first channels I started following in our Hobby 👊🤠🏀🏀 Mike your channel was up there Too 🤣😂❤️🔥❤️🔥 The content
Great chat regarding vintage, grading and "quantity of quality". I have purchased quite a bit through Facebook groups. Never a bad experience there and appreciate the warm communities that look out for one another. Deals to be had there for sure. I've amassed 70 of the Vintage 100 mainly through ebay, PWCC and Facebook groups. Big fan Mike and don't miss any of your vids and thank you for turning me on to Mr Mangini's collection and channel. Definitely following now.
I'm mainly a vintage collector. I love pre 1980 cards. I started in 1985 and always oogled over the 1950s to1970s. I stopped collecting in 1994, and only got back in 2014. I picked up so much vintage in the past 8 years, it's nuts. My goal is to get every set from Bowman, Donruss, Fleer, and Topps from 1948-present. Bowman 1948-1955 is 45% done! Donruss and Fleer 1981-1990 are 98% done! And Topps 1951-present is 60% done! I love this hobby. I never thought in a million years I'd be owning over 20,000 cards before 1980. I love vintage. Oh and my only rule is NO EBAY. Yup I haven't bought a single card for my collection on eBay. I prefer the hunt and the challenge.
I love it that everyone is running towards PSA. I've always been a BGS guy from day one not because they were once the leader of the pack, but because BGS protect my cards better. The extra sealed sleeve under the hard thick case is my savior. Especially during drops and cracks. Please sell me all your BGS 10s. I am willing to pay double the money for BGS10 to your PSA10. BTW: I didn't watch this video because I understood your motive with the title + 52mins speech.
I just recently bought a juan soto optic Rookie silver prizm in a ISA slab. never heard of them. a PSA 9goes for almost $200 while I got this one (9 mint) for $30.
I know this might not be exactly a topic you guys speak about. Its not exactly " vintage " only, but I just got back into cards abou t a year ago and I immediately noticed something sketchy about the " enfluencers " surrounded the tradintg card market. Im going to post a comment I left someone earlier, if you have time, please read it and let me know if im right or just missing the point. Thank you guys, love this show, its a nice break from the constant product pushing and bullshit I get elsewhere
Two GOATs of vintage, or should I say ‘vintage GOATs’?!? J/k; I’m older than both of you guys. Thanks for a great video and keep the passion and knowledge coming!👍🏼⚾️🔥
What card shop did you go to in Oklahoma? I'm always looking for a good shop to find cards and if i find anything i'll definately tell them you sent me their way.
Mike, I think a great future show would be to have on a collector who only collected BGS slabs and bought them when they were leading the hobby years ago. How did they feel as they watched PSA become the #1 slab in the hobby? How did they feel that at one time a BGS 9.5 and PSA10 were comparable on comps? Did they ever waver or just stick by BGS? Most CZcamsrs only talk about the rise of SGC but there has to be some old school BGS collectors out there?
I’m still afraid of cards in Beckett holders. Too many times when Beckett cards have been crossed to other grading companies - it comes back as altered (or some other issue that Beckett missed). I have done what your guest does, buy the best deal regardless of holder. Around 2018 I wanted a higher grade 67 Seaver RC. I couldn’t afford PSA ones, so I found a Beckett 7.5 for $675. I want to cross it to PSA hoping for a 7, but it almost looks “too good” and I’m worried about a trimming or other issue that Beckett missed. For completing sets and PC parts of my collection, I want everything PSA. But I’ve left it in the Beckett holder for 4 years now .
I have the same issue on a couple of cards. I have sent in Beckett graded cards to PSA that come back as "Min Size Req". It sucks. Especially when I know the card is good.
In my experience, a lot of the cards Greg Morris lists as near-mint or better have fading issues that render even the nicest centered cards closer to near-mint, than, "better".
Great video… so you both said “vintage” MANY times in this video.. the glaring question to each of you is to define what you believe is a “vintage” card ? There are many variations of what a “vintage” card is in this hobby. I would love to hear what each of you belive a “vintage” card is ???? For me I go with the 50 year old moving scale.. so right now 1972 or earlier is vintage..
@@MrJmangini A cool question I have is SGC seems to be the vintage choice and PSA the modern choice… In 100 years wont everything today and beyond be vintage ? who will be the leader of vintage in 100 years ?
For me vintage is 1885-1980. 1981 is when fleer and Donruss went full swing into yearly sets. I consider 1981-1993 is classic. 1994-2016 is modern and 2017-present is ultra modern.
Lend me yalls ears for a minute please and let me know what yall think, maybe im missing the entire point. Let me know if im a total idiot or possibly Rainman.....Ok....So.....The 80s & 90s without a doubt has the most MVPS, All Stars, HOF, and super stars of any decade with all sports combined. Damn near eveyr game, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Wreslting, whatever yuou like, was a damn all-star game every night. YET, they call it " Junk Wax Era " and keep telling people its over produced, cheap, and anything with value is over time losing it. But then " they " , the youtube/social media trading card enfluencers, constantly push modern sets of cards that are over prices retail, WAY over prices resale, and every god damn card has 20 parallels??!! Thats not over-produced?? They act like thye just randomly ran the numbers and figured this shit out this year, but its been like that since 2013 +/-. Open up a box set of 1990 or 1992 Score, you will find about 200 Prospect cards in one set, of those cards, Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones, Ben McDowell (pushing it LoL), Steve Avery, and Chuck Knoblock are the ONLY names you will recognize, OUT OF 200, during the best decade in sports history. Now image all the Bowman Prospects in a 2022 set, in 30 years, we might remember one!! But the 80s and 90s are the " junk wax"......They are trying to get eveyrone to damange, throw away, give away, or donate all the Junk Waxx cards that they possibly can so that in the next decade or so, when " JUnk Wax " becomes " vintage", you alreayd know who has teh PSA 10s stacked up for CHEAP!!!! Just waiting to sale you a Kenny Lofton Rated Rookie for $500 LoL Do NOT fall for the " Junk War " Error, its an industry play to keep yall idiots buying new shit and giving away the better stuff for dimes. If you don't believe me, do this, go and watch old videos of any card influences, don't listen to walk they arel talking about, look at what is in their case. Look at the graded cards that they keep in their personal collection. The majority of them, are PRE-2002. Do i have on my trading card aluminum foil hat, is this obvious and im just late the show, or am i right and everyone else is just dumb as hell.....Or "D" All of the above
Personally, I'd much rather have ungraded vs. graded. This is the way I had them as a kid, so this is what I want now. Not looking to flip them and not so concerned with value. I buy the highest quality raw cards I can find from reputable dealers. They would probably grade well and be worth a lot more with that grade on them, but I'll stick with the cards I can touch and smell.
Unfortunately there are so many scammers out there so you have to know how to spot a fake and we are not all that savvy. Slabs, especially PSA make it easier to be sure ur getting the real thing when it comes to vintage and expensive cards.
Listened to all John,'s latest posts, and have no trouble agreeing with his latest arguments. I like John's thinking on buying the best card no matter what holder. I actually feel SGC is the most consistent grader but I also understand your desire to buy PSA since you participate in the PSA registry. I also agree since I am in my 7th decade wisdom comes with time, as I have made a ton of mistakes and I have learned a lot and continue learn everyday from my many mistakes. Like that philosophy.
Two amazing vintage collectors showing everyone the ropes #YLTSI great conversation guys as always this show stays being a highlight of my week and is a must listen for vintage collectors young and old
Great info! I always enjoy listening to the show.
Always enjoy listening to you both. Good knowledge and insights.
Thanks for another great video. have been out of the scen for quite a while, prefer the vintage and always have but am enjoying catching up with pulse of the vintages genre from Mike,John,blue jacket and Rick.. keep it up!!
Great podcast guys! Really enjoyed the discussion and thoughts. Hopefully those new to vintage collecting realize the best ways to be happy with your collection and purchases is to just buy the cards they love. Bottom line. No matter the shape that takes. Slabbed, not slabbed (raw? Hahaha), beat up, card saver, etc…. I’m loving the hobby more than ever as I learn what I like to collector more and more!
I too, buy the vintage. In many ways.
Really enjoyed this conversation about the status of vintage and how and where you can get it!
With grading prices returning to normal, this may be a great avenue for people to learn more. I buy raw and grade. I started with the 80's and learned quite a bit on how grading companies evaluate cards. With prices returning to $10 to $15 in 2023, this would be a great way for people to learn. HOF rookies from 1981 to 1985 would be prefect for this. I then moved into the 70's, 60's, and 50's. Right now, I will buy anything raw or graded from T206 cards to modern Topps/Panini HOF on-card autos. Making mistakes is important, but don't start any cards over $50 to $100 in the beginning.
Two of CZcamss best, great conversation guys.
Great episode with two of he very best.
I am a collector 99% of the time. I tend to use eBay and I usually only buy graded cards and the grade isn't that important. I've seen 2's and 3's that, in my mind, look like a 5 to 7. Maybe the grader that day had too much to drink the night before? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and at the end of the day in comes down to, do I like the card? That's all that matters. Great video guys!
Outstanding Gentlemen. Great show
Mike Thanks for sharing this Hobby History 💯👍 Two Legends on one Stream ❤️🔥 John is one of the first channels I started following in our Hobby 👊🤠🏀🏀 Mike your channel was up there Too 🤣😂❤️🔥❤️🔥 The content
Outstanding discussion John and Mike!
This was super informative, thanks guys
Two of the best in the hobby! Great show guys! I thought "oh no" when you asked John about his eBay buying experience haha
Right?!
Great chat regarding vintage, grading and "quantity of quality". I have purchased quite a bit through Facebook groups. Never a bad experience there and appreciate the warm communities that look out for one another. Deals to be had there for sure. I've amassed 70 of the Vintage 100 mainly through ebay, PWCC and Facebook groups. Big fan Mike and don't miss any of your vids and thank you for turning me on to Mr Mangini's collection and channel. Definitely following now.
Great points. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy John's channel. I am sure that you will.
I never thought about Facebook Groups. What is out there? Which ones do you like and have been good for you? Thanks in advance Pete
I just buy PSA 8s or above, am I doing it right?
Two of the best CZcamsrs out there! Great show!
Appreciate that
Even a year later this was a fantastic discussion, especially the focus on the grading services and now SGC being bought by PSA
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.
I'm mainly a vintage collector. I love pre 1980 cards. I started in 1985 and always oogled over the 1950s to1970s. I stopped collecting in 1994, and only got back in 2014. I picked up so much vintage in the past 8 years, it's nuts. My goal is to get every set from Bowman, Donruss, Fleer, and Topps from 1948-present. Bowman 1948-1955 is 45% done! Donruss and Fleer 1981-1990 are 98% done! And Topps 1951-present is 60% done! I love this hobby. I never thought in a million years I'd be owning over 20,000 cards before 1980. I love vintage. Oh and my only rule is NO EBAY. Yup I haven't bought a single card for my collection on eBay. I prefer the hunt and the challenge.
Awsome
Great show....a great vintage tutorial.
Thanks so much!
Great interview between 2 great collectors!
Thanks Eric.
Great discussion Mike!
Thanks John.
I love it that everyone is running towards PSA. I've always been a BGS guy from day one not because they were once the leader of the pack, but because BGS protect my cards better. The extra sealed sleeve under the hard thick case is my savior. Especially during drops and cracks. Please sell me all your BGS 10s. I am willing to pay double the money for BGS10 to your PSA10. BTW: I didn't watch this video because I understood your motive with the title + 52mins speech.
I just recently bought a juan soto optic Rookie silver prizm in a ISA slab. never heard of them. a PSA 9goes for almost $200 while I got this one (9 mint) for $30.
Hey buddy. U going to the Dallas show 8th-11th? I’m actually setting up this time
I know this might not be exactly a topic you guys speak about. Its not exactly " vintage " only, but I just got back into cards abou t a year ago and I immediately noticed something sketchy about the " enfluencers " surrounded the tradintg card market. Im going to post a comment I left someone earlier, if you have time, please read it and let me know if im right or just missing the point. Thank you guys, love this show, its a nice break from the constant product pushing and bullshit I get elsewhere
My preference is PSA. I like the clear, smaller slab with holo security features.
Fantastic discussion fellas!!!!
Thanks Jayson.
Two GOATs of vintage, or should I say ‘vintage GOATs’?!? J/k; I’m older than both of you guys. Thanks for a great video and keep the passion and knowledge coming!👍🏼⚾️🔥
What card shop did you go to in Oklahoma? I'm always looking for a good shop to find cards and if i find anything i'll definately tell them you sent me their way.
Mike, I think a great future show would be to have on a collector who only collected BGS slabs and bought them when they were leading the hobby years ago. How did they feel as they watched PSA become the #1 slab in the hobby? How did they feel that at one time a BGS 9.5 and PSA10 were comparable on comps? Did they ever waver or just stick by BGS? Most CZcamsrs only talk about the rise of SGC but there has to be some old school BGS collectors out there?
Great idea Chris. I don't know any. LOL
@@BenchClear I think that sort of sums up why BGS has fallen so far. Lol
Great discussion. Thank you.
Always easier to sell a Honda over a Rolls Royce. I sell a ton of lower and mid grade. So many collectors can only afford that.
I’m still afraid of cards in Beckett holders. Too many times when Beckett cards have been crossed to other grading companies - it comes back as altered (or some other issue that Beckett missed).
I have done what your guest does, buy the best deal regardless of holder. Around 2018 I wanted a higher grade 67 Seaver RC. I couldn’t afford PSA ones, so I found a Beckett 7.5 for $675. I want to cross it to PSA hoping for a 7, but it almost looks “too good” and I’m worried about a trimming or other issue that Beckett missed.
For completing sets and PC parts of my collection, I want everything PSA. But I’ve left it in the Beckett holder for 4 years now .
I have the same issue on a couple of cards. I have sent in Beckett graded cards to PSA that come back as "Min Size Req". It sucks. Especially when I know the card is good.
Another problem with the raw cards are they typically sell for around what it would grade for. Getting harder to find anything ungraded worth grading.
In my experience, a lot of the cards Greg Morris lists as near-mint or better have fading issues that render even the nicest centered cards closer to near-mint, than, "better".
Good content
Great video… so you both said “vintage” MANY times in this video.. the glaring question to each of you is to define what you believe is a “vintage” card ? There are many variations of what a “vintage” card is in this hobby. I would love to hear what each of you belive a “vintage” card is ???? For me I go with the 50 year old moving scale.. so right now 1972 or earlier is vintage..
The old cut off was 1978. That seems to have expanded now.
@@MrJmangini A cool question I have is SGC seems to be the vintage choice and PSA the modern choice… In 100 years wont everything today and beyond be vintage ? who will be the leader of vintage in 100 years ?
@@leehaskins307 they’ll probably come up with new terms. And 100 years from now I won’t care lol
For me vintage is 1885-1980. 1981 is when fleer and Donruss went full swing into yearly sets. I consider 1981-1993 is classic. 1994-2016 is modern and 2017-present is ultra modern.
Wow I haven't ever heard someone or two feel exactly the way I do
I never lose: I either win or I learn.
Cheers vintage goats 🐐
SGC grades way harder than PSA. It's harder to get an SGC 10 than just about anywhere
Lend me yalls ears for a minute please and let me know what yall think, maybe im missing the entire point. Let me know if im a total idiot or possibly Rainman.....Ok....So.....The 80s & 90s without a doubt has the most MVPS, All Stars, HOF, and super stars of any decade with all sports combined. Damn near eveyr game, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey, Wreslting, whatever yuou like, was a damn all-star game every night. YET, they call it " Junk Wax Era " and keep telling people its over produced, cheap, and anything with value is over time losing it. But then " they " , the youtube/social media trading card enfluencers, constantly push modern sets of cards that are over prices retail, WAY over prices resale, and every god damn card has 20 parallels??!! Thats not over-produced?? They act like thye just randomly ran the numbers and figured this shit out this year, but its been like that since 2013 +/-. Open up a box set of 1990 or 1992 Score, you will find about 200 Prospect cards in one set, of those cards, Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones, Ben McDowell (pushing it LoL), Steve Avery, and Chuck Knoblock are the ONLY names you will recognize, OUT OF 200, during the best decade in sports history. Now image all the Bowman Prospects in a 2022 set, in 30 years, we might remember one!! But the 80s and 90s are the " junk wax"......They are trying to get eveyrone to damange, throw away, give away, or donate all the Junk Waxx cards that they possibly can so that in the next decade or so, when " JUnk Wax " becomes " vintage", you alreayd know who has teh PSA 10s stacked up for CHEAP!!!! Just waiting to sale you a Kenny Lofton Rated Rookie for $500 LoL Do NOT fall for the " Junk War " Error, its an industry play to keep yall idiots buying new shit and giving away the better stuff for dimes. If you don't believe me, do this, go and watch old videos of any card influences, don't listen to walk they arel talking about, look at what is in their case. Look at the graded cards that they keep in their personal collection. The majority of them, are PRE-2002. Do i have on my trading card aluminum foil hat, is this obvious and im just late the show, or am i right and everyone else is just dumb as hell.....Or "D" All of the above
Probably D - All of the above
Love your thought process .somebody's thinking outside the modern hyped box.!!
Vintage is always safe investment . Not happy with PSA very poor service SGC BVG,BECKETT much better service .
Personally, I'd much rather have ungraded vs. graded. This is the way I had them as a kid, so this is what I want now. Not looking to flip them and not so concerned with value. I buy the highest quality raw cards I can find from reputable dealers. They would probably grade well and be worth a lot more with that grade on them, but I'll stick with the cards I can touch and smell.
Real collectors are smarter today. We don't need graded stuff. We can spot a "good looking" / collectable card. Forget the grading costs!
Amen
Unfortunately there are so many scammers out there so you have to know how to spot a fake and we are not all that savvy. Slabs, especially PSA make it easier to be sure ur getting the real thing when it comes to vintage and expensive cards.
Grading cards is a complete rip off, f-ck that shit, excuse to raise prices only