Kilian and Zach's EMAIL to the ELITES - "Boycott UTMB"
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- čas přidán 21. 01. 2024
- Recently, the ultra-running community has been rocked by an unprecedented move from elite athletes Kilian Jornet and Zach Miller. They have issued a bold call to action, urging top runners to boycott UTMB in favour of an alternative race. This video unpacks the reasons behind this dramatic stance, including concerns about UTMB's points system, aggressive market strategies, and environmental issues.
We discuss the complex Whistler Alpine Meadows controversy involving Gary Robbins, and the firing of commentator Corrine Malcolm by UTMB, shedding light on the growing discontent within the trail and ultra-running community. Additionally, we discuss the influence of UTMB's headline sponsor, Dacia, and The Green Runner's response to this partnership.
The new World Trail Majors series, provides a less uncomfortable alternative to UTMB, and we speculate on the future direction of elite ultra-running competitions. We aim to provide a balanced view, examining the perspectives of both UTMB supporters and critics.
Join us in this exploration of the evolving landscape of ultra-running, the role of big business in the sport, and the potential implications for the future of prestigious races like UTMB. Whether you're a seasoned ultra-runner, a fan of the sport, or just curious about this latest controversy, this video offers valuable insights into another critical moment in ultra-running history. Don't forget to subscribe for more updates on this developing story and insights into the world of trail and ultra running.
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I've been racing IM for well over 30yrs, both in the UK, and Oz. The line '"There will always be local races...", was exactly what we kept hearing over and over in triathlon and look at the state of that of that now.
In particular in the US, there is only one game in town and that's IM. PTO are having a stab but ask nearly anyone stateside and triathlon = IM. So many many indie grass roots races have just gone.
It's not about UTMB taking over every race, it's about UTMB becoming so saturated in the market that the new entrants to the sport with limited disposable income will not want to spend their money on a 'non branded' race. This is what causes the smaller races that haven't been aggressively taken over (and an inferior product put in place) to die out.
We've seen this played out, over and over again in triathlon by the very brand that UTMB have thrown in with. Marketing and crushing the competition in any way possible is the strategy and all I can say is that us older triathletes will get zero satisfaction from saying 'we told you so'
Understand all your points. However, running is different to triathlon, certainly here in the UK. Running is a far more culturally embedded sport. Triathlon is just triathlon. But running is not just trail and ultra running. Athletics, XC, road racing, Fell Running, all very different disciplines run by different organisations with some very big players involved. UTMB isn’t going to take all that on. Triathlon was tiny by comparison. I just don’t see it. London Marathon by UTMB, parkrun by UTMB. Sussex Athletics Association Fun Run League by UTMB. Cumbria Schools XC by UTMB. Ambleside 6K Fell Race by UTMB.
And actually down here the south we do actually have quite a few local triathlon races. Arundel Tri, Brighton Triathlon, Ironbourne in Eastbourne. The Bastion Triathlon. None related to Ironman.
Yeah I get that but you're talking about a couple of different things. The comparison with marathons would really be the same comparison in triathlon with WTS, they are different disciplines in the same wrapper.
Like I said, it's not about UTMB taking over every race, it's about how people will vote with their wallets in the name of 'the brand'. There are a few tris still going but look at the ones that have gone in LD. (which is what we're really talking about if we comparing to ultras).. Forestman, Longest Day, A Day in the Lakes, the list goes on. Surviving races mostly have a severe YoY decrease.
Outlaw is still doing ok but they are a bit of an outlier in LD. I'm just really disappointed because I got of triathlon and in turn IM because it was my sport. I've not just seen it, I've lived it and have countless others, this was our lives.
Qualifying for CCC was what got me interested in ultras 5 yrs ago. The people are chilled, the scene is great and a long way from the business strategies of IM and its decimation of a sport. That's why for me, it's particularly galling to see the Polletis throwing in with IM just for more money.
Anyway, you can buy me a coffee at Arc and convince me I'm wrong. 🤣👍
@@ianl4518 haha let’s do it. I reckon I’m just overly optimistic!!
You know the ironic thing, I'll probably need to bring my IM backpack for registration 🤣
And the only races that are still left are so expensive. A sprint triathlon in Llandudno, Wales is now £90!!!!
Apologies for being corny but this really reminds me of LoTR. There are those who “despair” and think they couldn’t fight a power as big as Ironman so they just let it be; there are those who couldn’t resist the beauty and glory of UTMB. I hope Zach and Kilian manage to get a fellowship and somehow drive the positive changes they want to see.
On the other hand, my partner and I have taken the decision to boycott UTMB. Even as nobodies, we hope to vote with our money. Cancelling Nice and Translantau was hard (UTS is still on though because we already registered since last May). My ambition of running UTMB is down in the dumps… BUT it is now not the same UTMB I aspired to be a part of.
Dragon’s Back, Welsh 3000’s, and Spine Race seem more appealing to us these days…
Good perspective. Thank you
I already boycotted it lol. The idea of running a single track with over a thousand people is a nightmare and never had appeal.
yes, lots of people have exactly the same opinion and thoughts. Thanks Hillrunner
There are always times when a utmb participant is totally alone on the trail. The crowd soon thins out after the initial tailback.
A pattern I tend to see as races become more comercialised, is the reduction of the quality in the ammenities available at the race and the care taken with the participants, all while the price goes up. UTMB wasn't ever really on my list anyway pretty much because of the cost. Difficult to justify £129 for something like the UTS 50k, for example, when we currently have stacks of considerably cheaper alternatives in the UK with a lovely community vibe.
My concern would be that UTMB will begin to push out more grassroots events. We should be pretty safe in the UK partly because of a strong trail running culture and in the event of a corporate led apocalpyse on the trail running world, we at least have Fell running here that will always be a counterculture holdout.
I think there are a lot of things to be concerned about with regards to UTMB, things that have removed any desire for me to ever fork out for a UTMB race. There is a lot that we don't know and a lot that I'm sure will unfold over the coming months.
AGREE!!!!!!!!
Yes this is certainly an issue. When you have a local crew managing one event and putting all their love and passion into that one event, you can't fail to spot when another event seems homogenised and lacks any love, atmosphere or care.
We try to keep prices under control so that more people run, maybe Alan Sugar might not think that's the best strategy! but I think £78 for a 43 mile ultra is fair and we can deliver a good event for that price - do you really need a lot of razzmatazz?
@@gobeyondsport2646 yeah I'd say that's a very reasonable price for a 43 mile ultra. The best events I've been to are ones that do the basics really really well, rather than doing a lot of things poorly.
Very similar situation with World Majors marathons. They are super expensive, really hard to get into, and often times leave you disappointed by the level of service.
Ever since Ironman cancelled the event in Madison due to Covid and refused to refund my money, I’ve decided to never pay a dime to anything they are associated with.
The biggest problem with the UTMB that know one ever mentions is there abuse of volunteers. The top chefs make the big bucks running a company, whilst the volunteers get nothing. For grassroots events, yes volunteers and their passion for a sport is what allows these events to take place, but when you have big name sponsors, yet have a free work force, something isnt right.
many big profile MTB events use free or very low paid day volunteers, its nothing new.
"There will always be local races...", untill UTMB starts making exclusive club-agreements, that restricts the size of the runs, the support that those runs can have, how much YoyTubers can produce of content from the races (as it will be enforced in the UTMB races!).
There is no limit to what ideas and restrictions the board of UTMB can make up.
Has ayone followed the stream of money going in to the UTMB/IronMan?
How much "stays inside" and how much goes back to the runs and activities, and do they actually create anything new?
Thanks for highlighting the question about UTMB/IronMan money greed. That was not addressed in this video. I also agree with the local races slowly losing power to the club-agreements. Something needs to be done and that is what Killian and Zack are doing.
I just can't see it. UTMB aren't interested in my local running club or the local Fun Run League or the XC league or 'parkrun'. These are the grass roots races I'm talking about here in the UK. These are the events which filter through to trail and ultra running. But they also filter through to athletics and marathon running which are controlled by companies like England Athletics, Abbot World Marathon Majors, London Marathon Events, BAA and all the world athletics governing bodies. And then there's nothing to stop Joe Bloggs setting up a race if he wants. I'm not saying it could never, ever happen but I just think that level of monopolisation is highly unlikely.
As for Ironman finances, well that's anyone's guess. Remember Ironman is owned by an even bigger company, Advanced Publications, started by Samuel Newhouse, so most of the money ends up in the Newhouse family bank account I would imagine.
UTMB races look amazing. However the incredible complexity of the entry system (alongside the cost and the apparent overcrowding) is the main reason I’ve not tried any of their races. Great video Stephen. It will be interesting to see where it goes come the summer! All the best
Thanks as always Mike. See you soon.
They’re not that complicated to enter, you just need to run on of their races to enter the ballot, but they are overcrowded. I ran the CCC last year and it was an incredible experience which I enjoyed immensely, but I probably wouldn’t run it again. They’re also not the cheapest races to enter, but you’re getting a lot for your fee in terms of race experience.
You need to look at the Triathlon world to see the strategies of Ironman group play out. The moves you are describing are what has happened over the past decade or so in triathlon. Many smaller races don't exist, either bought up or squeezed out. As they have gained dominance over an area, prices have steadily risen. They are the McDonald's of triathlon. But a very expensive one. If that is what the trail scene wants...
Yes, I've seen what's happened in triathlon. But running I feel is slightly more embedded in society and culture as a thing to do. I just can't see Ironman/UTMB being able to control that.
Exactly. And Ironman is bringing its 30+ years of experience to fast-track changes in ultra running. Only difference is that Ironman series is sponsored by an electric vehicle company 🙂
I certainly agree with a lot of what Killian and Zach are saying...on the flipside it's also very easy for them to say choose another event when they've raced and experienced it many times (Zach less than 6 months ago), whereas many others (myself included) have never had the chance as yet
Yes, I agree. It's very easy for Kilian particularly to boycott UTMB as he has won it so many times. Brave of Zach as his second place shows he's capable of getting close. But I do wonder if he feels that's the best he can do at UTMB. He almost always fades badly in the second half. Was last year a one off or can he sustain that level again? Maybe we'll never know and maybe this is Zach's quiet way of taking that pressure off himself. There are certainly many others who want their shot at a podium or a win.
There are always couple side to the story. We understand Zach and Kilian’s perspective, but they have also done the race over five times with financial success. However, we should also think of it from a pro trail runner who is new to the industry. Sponsorship and earnings are very limited for anyone new into the sport. This is where UTMB is crucial for the young or new Pros.
Keep in mind, UTMB was also a grass-root, family owned business when it started. The Coletti’s aren’t some wealthy corporation out to make a buck.
To each their own but trying to see things from different viewpoints.
@@mulubear Guys like Zach and Kilian have had their careers promoted a lot because of UTMB and because of their performances there over the years. Yes, it would be very easy for Zach to say he doesn't want to do UTMB this summer because he got into the Hardrock 100 instead! Kilian generally likes more technical trails anyway and has already won UTMB like 4 times....plus he's working hard to promote Nnormal and doing other mountain objectives. There's no place I'd personally rather be at the end of August than in Chamonix. It is like the "SuperBowl " of mountain-ultra trail running and the atmosphere is electric. For newcomers and up and coming elites it is a "must do" destination race and testing ground IMO. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon [and yes I am obviously biased because i have multiple sponsors involved with UTMB].
Great coverage of this ongoing issue Stephen.
Every time I hear a new thing about UTMB (Corinne, Gary, various 'others') right now I lose a bit of faith and lean closer to a personal boycott of their races despite doing a few in the past. But the boycott isn't as much anger toward an organisation than it is just from becoming tiresome of their shit.
I did UTS in 2018 before it was bought out and then again last year. Yes it was much bigger this year and what it had in grandure it clearly lacked an attention to detail that i'm used to in smaller events. (extremely overcrowded tracks, worse food and on course support etc) Now this event could sell out 10 times over mainly for it being a stone gathering exercise. The Facebook group has become insufferable as it's now just a Facebook marketplace for people trying to buy each others places in the race.
I feel very lucky to have done CCC in 2022 as my faith that it'll remain as good as it was dwindles until proven otherwise.
I'm sure the Elite athletes dont want to boycott UTMB, they want them to conduct business better and I admire the fact they are voting with their feet.
In an ideal world they'll clean up their act and we can all get excited about it again.
...If all the elite athletes go then when are they going to bring in the Kenyans?
Thanks Adam. Interesting point about the Kenyans. If the money is there, they will come. The only reason we don't have East Africans dominating the sport right now is prize money. Win a marathon major and you can send money back to your whole extended family. Win an ultra and you can barely afford to pay your own bills.
I appreciate that you've taken the time to present a balanced overview on this. The entry system for UTMB is frustrating but navigable. However, I respect Garry Robbins - as an athlete, a content creator and as a person who, clearly, has the interests of the sport top of mind - and it troubles me that the apparent strategy of Ironman Group is to crowd him and his events out to channel everyone into the UTMB pipeline.
'It started as a movement, became a business, then ended up as a racket'. The alternative race could / should be Ultra Tour Monte Rosa (a vastly better alpine 100 miler experience).Thank you Stephen.
Thanks David. Yes Monte Rosa really would be amazing. But is it high profile enough? I guess it would gain a high profile is 15 top elites suddenly turned up and it's probably more high profile than Ultra Trail Cape Town.
That's exactly what has happened. I noticed it when The North Face pulled out, that seemed to be the turning point.
As an Ironman athlete racer from the 1980's era I have witnessed first hand what the Ironman Group has done, good and bad, to the sport of triathlon over the past 40 years. Before everyone gets their knickers in a knot over this Ultra running story, just take a look at the sport of golf, and see how divided that has become because of the huge amount of money coming into that sport. The Ultra running global community can learn a lot from whats happened in other sports, and instead of "choosing sides" perhaps be adults, sit down together, talk and communicate, and find a happy medium. You will not please all of the people all of the time. If Killian and Zach and others want to be tree hugging, environmentally concerned citizens, then thats their choice, and should be respected. Pro athletes have a very small window of opportunity to secure financially security, and nobody should blame them for doing so. On the flip side, the Ironman Group and others should always be held accountable, and responsible when it comes to their involvement in sport. This can be done in a variety of adult ways, not by throwing the toys out of the sandpit and saying we are not going to play with you.
Kilian has a history of speaking out on subjects he barely understands the basics of. I still remember his tantrum about the illegal referendum in Catalonia
yes boycott UTMB.
Thanks Jack
If you support the “centralization” of everything, then support UTMB and its opportunistic “qualifying” races for the profits they are seeking. Zach is 100% correct in his opinion that these entities are out for profit, not what’s best for the ultra community. 730M to purchase IM in 2020…this isn’t the community I am seeking out. Ultra and IM draw a very different runner to the starting line, it couldn’t be more apparent that they don’t care about the ultra community and are solely for profit. I for one will never run another UTMB/ Western States qualifier, I encourage serious runners to seek out serious events no matter how obscure…one to start with if your in the states in Tempest Adventures out of Colorado. The most amazing RDs out there to support you as you seek your highest. No one is overlooked, every runner is treated as an equal. Enough is enough of pandering to “elites” and “elite” runs when the vast majority are average runners seeking their highest and are always overlooked. This is an ultra revolution! Boycott UTMB and ALL the RDs licking boots. No disrespect intended…the sport is changing and runners need to decide what they stand for…as a runner and as a human being.
I think it's great that elite runner are leading the charge - but it really comes down to average runner taking action too. I've raced 34 x 100 milers over the past 4 years, and despite racing some of the most famous and toughness race, I have yet to qualify for UTMB as I have no stones. This year, I'll be racing several World Trail Major events (along with 100 milers every month). I'd race more if I had the budget, but it's pricey to travel so much. Anyhow, I hope UTMB is listening and planning to change course - because I think it was and is a classic, but their decision is hurting it and their name.
Whilst we do have a good amount of trail and ultra events in the UK, I think it can be difficult for smaller or newer events to grow or get established when a lot of the 'noise' focuses on big, well known events. I had been looking for a winter 100 miler only to discover that there pretty much aren't any. Was happy to find the LAW100 only to discover that it had already been cancelled due to insufficient entries. Even for a long event in winter ,I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't have been 60 people interested in taking part. I love watching the Arc and the Spine but there could be so much more. As runners, we need to seek out and support these events rather than aspiring to the big shiny events that first spark our interest. Pretty sure that UTMB Ironman will be alright.
There are still a good few 100 milers around the country. Centurion races of course, the Arc and the Hardmoors events. Highland Way, Lakeland 100, SVP100. Lots to choose from and many that sell out quickly and have no affiliation to UTMB and are not looking to sell.
We have a great Ultra called Rose of the Shires, a 54 mile trail run around Northampton, beautiful and varied route but now in its 5th year and still not making big numbers - yes its hard for smaller organisers to get noticed without high dollar marketing budgets!
Ukultra are doing a winter 100 miler this year from Eastbourne building on the winter 55 miler they ran this year
@@FilmMyRun yes quite a few in certain areas in the summer. I would be interested to know how races 'get found'. I suspect that in the modern world, it pays for race organisers to know how to work the Google algorithm. Geographic location probably also helps or hinders. Easier in trendy /more affluent areas. That's probably not the best way to phrase it but you get what I mean.
@@benmartin72the South does seem to be a 100 miler hub! Hope they have a successful event, we definitely need more winter events.
Thanks for the report, we’re certainly interested to see where this goes!! But is it fair to label it "snubbery?", even with the question mark when it is in fact an ethical protest?? That’s kinda sneaky "reporting" in itself!!
Oh totally. It's a clickbait title but I liked the pun on snub and snobbery so I thought I'd go with it. I mean they are still snubbing UTMB regardless of whether it's an ethical protest or not.
I was signed up to the UTMB Thailand and I emailed the organisers before the event asking about nutrition, salt and water at the aid stations. No email back. No information on the dosage of electrolyte water when I was at aid stations which made me guessing how much I was consuming. No vegan food. And a guaranteed dnf due to heat exhaustion, exacerbated by incorrect electrolyte balance.
No warnings on dangerous animals in the jungle either, I nearly ran on top of a banded krate ! I didn’t feel safe on that one. The ‘no communication’ is the worst part of it.
Excellent summary and commentary as ever. No personal opinion really as I have no great desire to do any UTMB events (too crowded and expensive) though I do enjoy your videos of the races as much as any others.
Thank you Juliet. Yes another big complaint about UTMB is how crowded it is and you don't get that sense of wilderness that many trail runners crave.
Great job, Stephen, explaining what that email is all about.
you're welcome. Thanks for watching
Great video Stephen! I still have very mixed feelings. I've only done UTS so far and although I really enjoyed it and overall felt it was well organised (and the volunteers still worked their butts off!), I felt that the lengthy feedback form seemed to focus very much on how effective the advertising of sponsors had been rather than my experience as a runner. It was the same at Amsterdam marathon. It's a real shame because I don't think that's what's behind what the UTS team on the ground are all about - it felt pushed from the top.
I’m still aiming to do the occ or ccc one day, but am frustrated at the process of trying to get in. I’m in the uk, so only option for stones is UTS (without flying somewhere), but it’s timed in a way that even though you have two years before stones expire, you lose a year due to the timing of the race and the lottery.. so will be on a treadmill of continuous UTS races and only ever really have one or two stones.. also I’ve heard how the race appears to be very over crowded now, so not sure what the experience will be like if I ever get in. Thing is, utmb seems to be the only Chamonix race worth doing or available , and it’s perpetuated because it’s the only race content creators seem to show.
Stones never expire. However they will go dormant after two years and you’ll need to get at least one more to reactivate all your stones again. But have you considered TDS? An amazing race, better than UTMB imho and no stones required.
The beauty of utr being such a small sport with a handful of huge names is that sponsors can be damned. 'Oh you want me to do this race I am not keen on Hoka? No worries, I hear Adidas Terrex want another big name runner'.
It's not like tour de France where you need a team to even get in, or road running where there is a bit of saturation with sponsors having fairly stacked rosters.
Elite UTR runners still have sway and say. And KJ and ZMs message seems very balanced and fair.
I think K and Z's message is perfectly fair and balanced. It's just I don't see it swaying enough elite runners to make an impact. But it keeps the ball rolling and the momentum is still for change. I'm not sure I'm 100% with you on the sponsors thing. I think there are only one or two like Jim and Kilian who might really be able to take or leave a sponsor. there aren't that many companies willing to pay an athlete to be a full time trail runner. Most runners are absolutely delighted and grateful to have a sponsor on board and do what it takes to keep them on side. Really appreciate your input though. Thank you so much.
I didn't read their email as a "let's boycott UTMB" but rather closer to what I think would be the ideal solution - the PTRA needs to pick every year THE race that will the be the "World Championship", and make sure it rotates. It shouldn't always be the same. The race itself (UTMB) is a good race, but the absolute power that comes with being De Facto world championship gives them unproportionnal power compared to other races - they get the juicier sponsors, the most attention from everyone, etc. I think the best solution is a rotation of what is THE race of the year. AND I think that having PTRA choose this race would give back power to runners instead of race organization - meaning they could insure that whatever race is picked acted according to trail running values.
I am sure that you are accurate with your description of what occurred in Canada but what you need to understand also is that UTMB is Global with and they franchise different areas so what occurs in one region by one franchisee is not necessarily the case throughout the organization. I have personally attended UTMB Events outside of Canada that were exceptional. I would compare this to me receiving poor service at a McDonald's in one city and then saying all McDonald's are bad. The decisions of the UTMB Franchise Owner in Canada should not impact all of the other UTMB Events throughout the world. My experience with UTMB is very positive and I feel that they work every day on advancing this sport from a niche to a main stream recognized sport world-wide.
Also, I refuse to believe athletes have no say. Zach Miller & Pau Capell are both TNF athletes but Zach is boycotting whereas Pau seems to be not. They could very much convince their sponsors to support them in what I think could be an advantageous publicity for them too.
Oh, at the end of the day an athlete can do what he or she wants, of course. I never said they have no say, just that sponsors do have a say. If a runner doesn't agree with their sponsor they can discuss it and work out what's best for both parties. I'm sure it works out amicably with give and take on both sides usually. But contracts may also have some non-negotiables written in.
Unfortunately, I have a hard time finding alternative races in the same locations. This is probably due in part to UTMBs strategy, so the community needs a new or enhanced platform to advertise other events internationally.
This is a great point... UTMB have bought out some great spots with stunning scenery, and currently there seems to be a lack of cheaper alternatives in those areas.
There is also the Sky Runner series but yes.
Ancient Chinese proverb , “ if you feed the dragon don’t complain about its breath”
Or something like that 🏃♂️🏃♂️
Can't argue with that!
Completely agree. The whole situation is a little murky! Going to be interested to see how this all plays out, i am however pleased to see athletes poking their heads up at risk from their sponsors to better the sport and community.
Hope you are starting to feel better and manage to get back to training when you are ready!
Yes it's an odd one because some people are arguing that the elites are throwing their dummy out of the pram and stamping their feet whereas others see it as the elites standing up for the running community as a whole, which is where I am. I think they are doing it for the good of the sport. Whether it works is another matter.
I agree with completely! We’ll put
It's amazing people are so quick to jump on the 'boycott/cancel' bandwagon without considering the massive hypocrisy on display here.
UTMB has done more than any other organisation in the world to promote ultra trail running and bring in sponsors which allows ultra atheltes the luxury to make a career out of this sport.
20 years ago this was a fringe sport at best and races were badly run, dangerous and not accessible to the average joe.
The UTMB is hugely successful and good for them. Their races are superbly run. well marked and crewed, safe and have huge support - they create memories and experiences to be cherished for a lifetime. But apparently Zach and Kilian aren't happy so neither should we? Really??
My biggest gripe here is that neither Kilian nor Zach make clear what it is they are especially annoyed with!! Other than having Dacia as a sponsor (which I agree is a bad look) what is their actual list of complaints???
I’d never consider a utmb event. Politics aside for a plodder like me it would just be following whoever was in front of me with no opportunity to run my own race. Not for me...
I would just like to point out that Kilian still ran in a UTMB 20k event in Switzerland in 2023. I don't think he faked an injury to stand-up to Dacia.
Yes to local races! No to corporate buy outs of races!
I will always support local races as well as enjoying the big events like UTMB
then no videos of these "influencers", no superstar runner, no superstar races..... LIFE IS NOT SIMPLE.
Come to South Africa and run the Ultra Trail Cape Town
Anyone got a track ID for the back ground music?
Trail and ultra running have reached a tipping point. There is now serious money involved, and I am afraid that will affect smaller races. More new trail runners are racing for the kudos of the big race finish rather than the love of trail running. And they will spend their cash with the UTMB's. Putting races on is getting harder and harder, and as the cost of living squeeze hits, the competition for the pound in runners' pockets gets harder. As part of a team that puts on races, we struggle to find the balance between putting on a great event at an affordable cost and managing to break even. We do it because we love it. UTMB are only here for the profits - and that rarely ends well.
I am proud our sport elites have moral and ethics to a higher degree than others that follow the money. Putting ultra running on the map isn't the highest priority. Living comfortably within your own skin is way more important. Good vid....I know you like UTMB and you presented this well balanced.
I would be interested to know how many stones you had to manage to get into the OCC this year? I have been unsuccessful last 2 years. Thanks
I had 5 stones.
As a distance runner for many decades, although I have done it, paying money to run never made much sense to me. Reflecting, I’d much rather run with my dogs or a group of friends than enrich some sponsors. As for the Green Runners, your running shoes, your clothing, the house you live in, the roads you drive, the vehicle you drive, the jets you fly in, all come from fossil fuels. Just saying.
UMTB will not go out of business anytime soon but they might have overused their powers. Ultrarunning is not Triathlon with a huge logistic setup. Runners can easily choose to do different races and leave all UMTB affiliated races out of their own race calendar. It's really not that difficult.
You know my feelings Stephen after years of racing IM. Good, it's become a bloody circus and ramming all those people on those trails does zero for the amazing environment the races are held in.
The Polletis don't need to be any richer. We've seen this ad nauseum with Messick and his ilk. I won't be watching any films from any UTMB races from here on in.
I’ve been lucky to race the OCC in 2022 & 2023 there amazing events, this year I’m racing the Lavaredo which is a UTMB event but for me if I was to boycott these events what races do I do ? Golden Trail series which seems impossible to get into. I’ve been going to UTMB since 2017 in my opinion it was better back then
Nicely balanced assessment 👍🏃♂️🏃🏿♀️🏃🏾♂️🏃♀️
Thank you 🙌
Fantatsic Stephen, a well informed, impartial perspective on a very tricky subject.
Thanks Adam. Appreciate that. What are your thoughts on it all?
I would very much love to do the UTMB one day @@FilmMyRun. All the bad press around it dosn't deter me as I would like to find out my self. However I do think that the corporate approach the UTMB have had for expansion, dosn't quite suit the ultra running community, then again, times have changed..... yes on the fence also lol!
i take the other side of the bet. they'll get more than half of the top 15+15 in an alternative race
It will definitely be interesting to see. If they persuade Tom Evans to give up on his dream of winning UTMB I will be amazed. But if they manage it they are on to a winner.
I would say this is probably a fair guess. And i think we all understand the sponsors will have as large an influence on the top athletes as Killian (who left Salomon and started his own company, good timing!) and Zach. Put ourselves in their shoes. This sport isn't a massive advertiser and relatively so few get to do this for a living full time. While it would be great to see a unifying front on not showing up in 2024 and sending a message, again, that's easy for us to say when we don't have skin in the game like the elites.
Brilliant summary. I also am somewhat on the fence regards it all.
I feel like I ought to make a stance one way or another. Perhaps I'm just too weak to decide!! I can see both sides and I just don't think UTMB have been dirty enough yet for me to jump ship.
Just to want to mention that lots of elite athletes are contradicting themselves for example Kilian has been driving around Europe couple years ego with paid sponsorship with Mercedes camper van and now he opposed Dacia it might be different story if Mercedes will be sponsoring UTMB☹️ With full respect to all elite athletes. Keep on running folks😄🏃🏻♂️
Room for all options. I would love to run a UTMB race, but never going to happen in reality. I do run and love the smaller ultras I do run in the UK.
I would like to hear Courtney’s opinion.
I ran UTMB in 2022 and it was awesome. The atmosphere in Chamonix is so nice and it was a great experience. However, that was only possible because I got to run the first edition of Val D'aran, which gave me a secure entry. If not for that lucky ticket, I wouldn't race it. There weren't many races with UTMB points in Portugal and I don't have money and time to go race abroad so often. With the running stones system, it's worse 'cause the races are even more distant and expensive since they became "By UTMB". Right now I feel a bit disappointed with the UTMB organization and the way they seem to put the money over the best interest of the sport and I see myself looking deliberately for races that aren't in the UTMB system.
I don't think this email will make a big difference. The potentially biggest risk for UTMB would be if another race series with much higher prize money shows up, like what Ironman is dealing with from PTO.
Agree. Just subscribed.
Dominating any sport or business never helps
As a regular weekend warrior. All of this has made it clear to me that I have no desire to ever run a UTMB race. Prior to this I would have done it in a heart beat. I am very excited to support local races and look forward to seeing the positive changes that come about in response to this exodus from UTMB
UTMB is not promoting the sport, they're capitalizing on it. Boycotted.
Pardon what exactly is the problem with Dacia?
And Kilian did not fake an injury because of Dacia.
I wonder if someone as influencable as Kilian, first contacted utmb directly with some pleas?
Dacia is a car manufacturer. UTMB have regularly championed themselves as an environmentally conscious group, wanting to preserve the trails and nature for future generations. Having Dacia as a sponsor seems against that principle as they create cars which use fossil fuels and harm the environment.
With regard to Kilian faking an injury, I never said that…. Hahaha I’m sure his injury was genuine. But I’m not sure how you are so certain!
Thanks for this video. Personally I enjoyed my experience at a UTMB event last year.
We love it every year. There's no knocking the atmosphere and excitement generated in Chamonix during that week each year. It's incredible.
As a triathlete since 2008, I have not and will never support WTC/Ironman. They killed the sport because they have exclusive access to IM Hawaii in Kona, and they tried with Road running (remember the Rock 'n' Roll series?) and they're coming for Trail. You've been warned.
Gonna go out on a limb and say this will have no impact on UTMB races and registrations will be at an all time high
It’s a shame that trail running at this level is going this way. It seems so hard to qualify for utmb now. Unless I’ve missed something….. When is your UTMB video being released?
insightful, thanks!
I think the issue is not the UT Mount Blanc event + CCC, TDS, etc event weekend & festival in Chamonix, but rather concerning the UTMB + IM organization taking over so many smaller races around the world. If UTMB had 5-6 "signature" events (like they used to), many people would have no issue. But with them trying to take over in so many other places and put on 20 events around the world just to make more money and funnel people into the brand, that's where the community is taking personal issue.
It feels like UTMB, the organization, is simply getting greedy and trying to make every cent they can off of ordinary ultra runners rather than supporting the sport and putting on a few great events that celebrate the community and are "goal races" for so many people. This is why i believe the boycotts are being called for.
If Adidas, Hoka, et al had any balls they'd organize their own race in Chamonix on the same weekend as UTMB. Or everyone would just go and run the Wyoming Range 100. Denis doesn't truck with BS...His races have everything an ultra runner really needs and wants, even if a starter's pistol, start and finish lines don't, technically, make the list. He'll be there at the finish line to greet all the finishers. Which race director does THAT at Chamo-NIX? Viva Gary Robbins!
"There will always be..." Is true until it isn't, at which point it's likely too late.
Yea, I just don't see it. UTMB or Ironman just aren't going to be interested in having any say over my local club or our local Fun Run League. UTMB will not be taking a controlling stake in 'parkrun' or the local athletics association Cross Country league events.
Maybe you should have circled South Downs Way as an option as well as Quebec and Cape Town, Steven? Plenty of places left and I quite fancy racing Killian to the car park barriers in the first 200 metres.
Haha, the only reason I didn't is because SDW100 is too early in the season to replace UTMB. I've no idea what race they will choose but it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I often see many people doubting the idea of a mass exodus from the UTMB (Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc) or the notion that the UTMB doesn't threaten local races. And then I wonder: What is the business model of those who are staunchly defending the UTMB? Let's be honest here: all of you, coaches, trainers, film companies, profit from the Ultra-Trail running circus surrounding the UTMB. That's why I find this assessment to be very subjective.
I'm already boycotting, I mean I didn't get in the lottery either 😂 I did the races, got the stones and i didn't get anywhere. UTMR? 🤔
Very interesting mate its hard to speculate on utmbs motivations without being in their boardroom I imagine they are trying to regain some of the revenue lost during covid challenge Roth gave ironman a run in triathlon maybe killian can too . . I'm just happy to race
Yes, it's very difficult to make informed decisions when you really don't have all the information. We can only judge what we see and we all know how things can get twisted and muddied.
I don't think it would work. Those elites would be replaced by the second row elites and it would continue.
My biggest gripe with UTMB is their encouragement of travel ie, the World Series. I would be surprised if this isn't something the green runners have picked up on too. It is not the individual runners, collecting their stones that's the problem, but the influence that UTMB has on so many people.
I bloody hope they bring down the company responsible for 💩ing on smaller race organisers. Too many greedy people in the world. Just have a race or two and make a humble wage.
I think you could have mentioned that UTMB changed significantly once Ironman became the part owner and business model for UTMB. Listen to John Kelly speak about them.
things went down when they started the stones to make sure their circuit makes more money. They should have kept the itra score and a minimum of a ultra finished in the last 9 months. this way local races could be included in ITRA and make sure all trail races across the globe could be in the same circuit, at the same table. This sport is already expensive enough for the normal runner who is passionate about trail running, when they pushed it further it lost its charm. I hope Golden Trail Series develop more and include ultra marathons.
Golden Trail Series is an amazing series. Really enjoyable to watch. Great TV coverage, great scenery and routes and lots of top runners taking part.
It's all about the money, money, money 💰💰💰💰
This is the same reason I don't do Ironman branded events
Personally I back the boycott. I love the idea of utmb and one day hope to run it. However, their organisation definitely doesn't seem to align with actually improving the sport. I also kind of hate the these companies are making shed loads of money while completely relying on volunteers to proceed. Doesn't feel right.
Just did it
Unbroken on the bar MU
115lb bench
Pistols to a bench
He says he has no problem with big business, but then complains that they act as if they can do whatever they like... I don't think he knows what big business is.
Who is this ‘he’ you’re referring to?? Haha you can talk directly to me you know James! When you say ‘ I don’t think he knows what big business is’, I’m not sure what the purpose of that comment is. It almost feels like it was designed to make me look naive and stupid? Maybe not. Insult aside, you make an arguable point that there is a contradiction of sorts in my argument. Perhaps in order to be a big business you have to believe you can simply do whatever you like. Maybe that's how big business works. is it possible to be a big competitive business but work within a moral framework of integrity?
UTMB is a phenomenal world class race. I have nothing against a big, commercial, media hyped event. It’s a different feel and there is nothing wrong with it. BUT changing “UTMB” to “Dacia UTMB” stinks. It’s stupid, it’s a sell out, and it just stinks. It’s announcing to the world that the sponsors and the money are more important than the race. I’m very happy I ran it before it was a car advert. And they skunked Gary Robbins too. Get back to your roots UTMB. Be a world class race first and a business second. Respect the majesty of your course. Have sponsors that mean something to your athletes, and care about the sport. Please make UTMB the classy race it deserves to be.
Really like this comment
"A similar location and a similar time of year"?? No, no, no. UTMB pushed out Gary's race, and took the EXACT weekend and the EXACT COURSE of his race. They didn't even contact him about buying that race, they went to the land owners and had his race pushed out in favour of theirs.
As an age-group Ironman athlete, sadly this isn't all that surprising. Ironman have proven themselves many times to be an immensely greedy corporate business that only cares about the bottom line.
No surprise owned by Ironman. Look at triathlon and the rise of the PTO.
I don't know why you'd want to travel to the US/Thailand/South Africa/etc. to join a race run by people from Chamonix. The whole concept seems wrong to me, and looks like the only reason they're able to expand in this way is due to the influence of their "halo" race of UTMB, and their entry process favouring these events.
Well it doesn’t quite work like that!! They are mostly taking over already established races and using the existing infrastructure there including race director etc. in cases where they set up a new event they use local people who know the area. Also it’s not the team in Chamonix looking after most of this it’s the Ironman team in the USA.
However, all that said I get your point. We don’t want homogenised races around the world which essentially all look the same.
Managed to pronounce 'controversy' both ways 🙂
Haha. Yup I have no idea whether I’m going to say a southern baaaath or a northern bath until I open my mouth!! The product of an eclectic upbringing! Shedule or skedule. No idea. Pronunnciation or pronounciation?!! It’s all a mystery to me.
We all like to make money😁. I’ll stick to fell running. Thanks for the info
And fell running is one of those sports almost unique to the UK which I can't see UTMB infiltrating. Thanks Paul.
Its difficult i guess. Utmb is a big part of kilians success. He has made his money and fame through using utmbs infrastructure. The infrastructure contains media, qualifying systems and things to get even more popular. Now complaining about something you have likely taken benefit from seems for me kind of hypocrite. It a pity: i can understand both and like them. But why jzst at the time when your career is at the end (for kilian)
For my part l will not be watching any UTMB race or training videos, including yours Steve.
Haha, thanks for the comment John. Appreciated. Fight the power.
Here is my opinion as an average ultra marathon trail runner. I don’t care about what the elites say or do. I will participate in any race I choose, regardless of the organizers. I don’t care if someone feels burned by it.
In my mind UTMB is a great race organizer who put on excellent events. I’ve run several poorly organized races before and for average runners such as myself the UTMB ones are top notch.
If a few elite runners choose not to participate, it means nothing to me since I don’t care about elite athletes.
Thanks for your input Tony.
Maybe Evans will get his "nutrition" program better dialed in next year.😏
Tom hasn't had an issue with his nutrition before I don't believe. He was unwell for UTMB last year. But you're right to single him out. He's certainly one who is likely to be going for the win this year. If he pulls out then Kilian and Zach are really on to something big.
There are lots of non utmb races. Lots. No need to run something that compromises your personal morals.
Nice video but the music is too distracting.
That’s surprising. Mostly the complaint is that my voice is too loud!! Haha
@@FilmMyRunActually sounds much better on my PC. Listened on my iPhone last night and it sounded terrible.
I missed the Whistler story
Does anyone else find these AI generated images off putting?
I do! BUT be honest now, would you rather look at a mildly amusing AI generated image or my face....I rest my case.
My recommendation to anyone who’s getting into ultras: stay far away from UTMB or big money corporations and organizations. Pick a race that is local, old school, well organized and gritty. There might only be 40 runners. That’s ok - that’s about what the first Western States was. It’s the true spirit of the sport.
UTMB is owned by Ironman. Ironman is the typical bad big industry. If you like ultra running, don't run UTMB events.
I believe Mr robbins
It's tough to know exactly what happened in Whistler, but it seems that most elite runners will now be at UTMB this year. Especially now Dacia are no longer headline sponsors.
Just my $0.02 as a 70 y.o. lifelong running (non-elite) enthusiast. It seems to me this fight is being co-opted by politics of all stripes. I had already been dismayed when as more and more of the ultra race sponsors took the knee to global politics and went woke. Now some are trying to blame "earth-hostile" sponsors for this fight as a means to blame corporate interests (aka sponsors). I think we need to all knock it off about ALL politics, woke and non-woke.
This is about running. not aspiring "influencers" using their "platforms" to value-signal themselves to fame and fortune. That is what got me the most upset about what happened to Gary who had worked his tail off to organically create a world-class ultra-marathon event in his own "backyard" purely for the running community through his own sweat and money and through having earned the love and support of the running community. UTMB destroyed a wonderful event put together by a wonderful guy "just like that!" How easy it was to screw the little guy.
1
So could we please lose the politics please and remember why we run in the first place? Most of us who contribute to the success of ultra races are just runners who participate for the love of it and not for winning nor fame and fortune. Let's not ruin this sport by. Keep politics out of it! For the vast majority of us runners who have out the sport on the map just by participating and following the amazing accomplishments of the elites, it's about RUNNING!!! WOOHOO!!! There is nothing like the ultra running community. We don't need outside interests "investing" the sport out of existence by taking away what makes so many of us love it and converting it into yet another "platform" for political virtue signalling.
PS - People need to stop talking nonsense about UTMB 'pushing out' grass root events like they have some sort of ability to do this. They don't!!!
All the races they have acquired (like the UTS herein the UK) were bought and the people selling those races chose to do so at a price they thought was attractive.
Whistler?
@@Bertie..What do you mean 'Whistler'? Gary Robbins didn't sell to UTMB. He's whining because Vail Resorts chose to go with UTMB as opposed to his own outfit?
So what? Isn't it their choice to do so!?! He makes it sound like he had some god given right to be awarded the rights to run his race - he didn't! He operates a commercial event and so does UTMB. The only difference is UTMB has a proven model that attracts lots of people which is probably why Vail Resorts chose them - who knows?
Seriously, the UTMB aren't perfect by any means and their races are way too expensive but for anyone to paint them as villains is plain ridiculous.
I ran UTMB in 2022, Val D'aran in 2021 and it was amazing. Some of the best experiences of my life. If you want to do it then do it and don't let anyone guilt you into doing otherwise.
nope, ask the guys who were organising a lovely local race before they were pushed out (similarly as what happened with Whistler) and this is now Wildstrubel (incidently the resort is now owned by Vail too).
What do you mean 'pushed out'? Either a race director chooses to sell to UTMB or the people in charge of the local area (such as Vail Resorts) choose UTMB!
They're not the mafia! I know the guy who sold UTS here in the UK and he was very happy to sell to UTMB.