Scope Mounting Myths - BUSTED!
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- I go over the top three myths I regularly hear about scope mounting.
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Stay Armed, Stay Ready!
Gary Melton is a former U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret, Weapons Sergeant, and Sniper Team Leader with 4 combat tours. He has worked full time as a Unit Chief and Special Tactics Instructor at a federal agency and is the owner and Lead Instructor for Paramount Tactical Solutions.
Paramount Tactical Solutions is staffed by Special Operations veterans and cadre that are required to have high level operational experience and to have worked full time as a tactical instructor for Federal Law Enforcement and/or the military. Paramount specializes in training Military and LE units as well as civilians in firearms, tactics, security, and tactical medicine. Most of our courses are located 1.5hrs from Washington DC, near Winchester, VA. We are mobile and can provide onsite training as well.
Survival IS Paramount
Stay Armed, Stay Ready!
Survival IS Paramount
Chapters:00:00 - Intro and Background
04:41 - Myth #1 Scope Turrets/Caps Aren't Level
09:14 - Myth #2 Scope Doesn't Need to Be Leveled To Gun Only Gravity
12:02- Only Need to Level The Reticle Not the Scope - Zábava
LMAO, as a Marine "vet" (whom usually takes the brunt most the time) when you said "I'm not a Navy SEAL, so I don't like to talk about myself" I laughed and hit that like button!
In MY opinion, your 20 MOA rail explanation was "perfect". I found it both understandable a accurate (no pun intended). Hopefully, it helped a lot of people out as I think it may be one of the most misunderstood concepts I see in optics mounting.
I love this guy!!
Oh man!
Finally! Someone that's f'n real about his sheott!!
Thank you!
"I don't like to talk about myself".... proceeds to talk about himself lol. Just poking at you. Great content bro.
I was considering mounting my Leupold Mk-5 to a slightly canted Sig Cross in order to create a custom fit to the most natural/comfortable cheek weld.... Your education on the MOA rail likely saved me a lot of future frustration....
I watched hours and hours of videos and Brownell just released a video saying the same info in this video. That set me on the right path and now I discovered this video. Planning to mount my scope next week
The fact that you're aware of your shortcomings is all that I needed to hear . SUBSCRIBED.
Snag a few stabila levels for the next one
Gary, I just recently discovered your videos/channel and am favorably impressed - not only with the information you present, but perhaps especially with the quality of your presentation. This is yet another excellent instructional video and is very valuable to those of us intent on “getting it right”. Hooo-ah!
Thanks Marty, that means a lot! I’m glad you found us and appreciate your kind words. Hope to see you in the comments often. Join us on Fridays for our livestreams! -Gary
I always appreciate the information you drop on us. Your LPVO mounting video was the one that had me subscribe.
Found this 6 months later than when you posted it, but timely information for a new build. Most appreciated!
Just found your channel and I’m glad I did. I’m just getting in to long distance shooting and your vids are way helpful. Thank you for your service and your info.
i was already familiar with the information but, i really enjoyed the way you came across putting it out there. will be checking out more info from you for sure. thanks
Great video, very thorough explanations! I understood the basics of what you talked about prior to watching the video, but now I understand it more in depth of the what and why.
Hi and I want to say that I have a great deal of respect for your Knowledge and Experience. I have recently purchased a brand new wheeler scope leveling tool. My Father a mechanic by trade that could build houses or do pretty much anything that required intelligence and ambition, taught me a very valuable lesson about buying and testing levels (in fact I remember feeling uncomfortable while he was telling the hardware store owner that he only had one level in the store that was actually level and plum. I would have been about 6 yrs old). The way you prove That a level is actually level is to find a surface that is very very close to level and flat that has position repeatability (lines and edges that are perpendicular to each other). Place the level on the surface and pay an extreme amount of attention to the bubbles position left to right and swing the level 180 degrees to the exact same spot and see if the level bubble placement lands in the exact same spot (If the bubble has shifted the level has error in it my friend). I hope that you double check your levels and then I can tell you how to make them work accurately even though they have error.
Thanks for the Brilliant content and information.
Thanks again
Donnie
Sound, solid advice. Thanks for your time.
Thank you for this lecture! I never was aware of it. I followed your instructions and made the necessary corrections. I also used a bubble level that fastens to the rail.
Excellent job. Really appreciate all your videos. Keep up the great work.
Thanks and thanks for watching!
Great video, watched your scope mount video too today, very helpful - thanks from New Zealand.
Thanks for watching! -Gary
Thanks for the info. I am new to scopes and this definitely is good to know. I did use the turrets to mount my scope and i was very cautious to make sure the scope was level with a level.
Thank you for the informative video. I thank you for your service and sacrifice. Best to you.
I like your video. You covered setting up a scope well. Straight and level and you have no problems.
Good stuff. Makes total sense. Thanks man!
Fantastic. Great explanations .
I've found that using a flat steel ruler is even easier than using the wheeler levels. Just get the scope somewhat snug in the rings so it will only rotate with some force applied to it, then rest one edge of the ruler on your pic rail while lifting the other edge to contact the flat bottom of your scope tube. It's super fast and as long as you use a good quality ruler like a Starrett your scope will be perfectly level.
🤔 pretty smart. I can’t think of a reason that wouldn’t work for mounting in rings. Probably wouldn’t work on most mounts given they don’t typically have flats below turret housing but for rings it’s quite brilliant. Thanks for sharing and watching! I might have to do a video on that and I’ll be sure to give you credit. This channel is meant to be a community and sharing info like this is what makes us all better!
Thanks, Gary
Great presentation.
I think that a canted scope poses problems as detailed in the scope erector illustration even with a zero rail/base but only at noticeable distance when substantially elevating.
Bravo on the excellent presentation.
Very informative video. Thanks
There's a lot to take in & I appreciate you taking the time to explain it all. What I discovered recently is a jig you slide between the rail & bottom of the scope& when fully forward creates a perfectly level scope. It's all about geometry (in my mind anyway😁) Not sure if you've seen or had chance to use one.
That was really well explained. I understood everything. Thanks
Thank You Gary!! Great Info.. Opened my eyes on a lot. I didn’t think a bubble level could be off much. I have always used plumb bob and I’ve never shot a tall target to check anything but I will soon.
Definitely shoot a tall target test. You can even make one at home. Shooting that test is the only real way to know your optic is square and tracking correctly. Thanks for watching! -Gary
Great videos , I follow your method after using old school ways. Keep up the good work
👍
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Another great video! Keep up the excellent work!!
Thanks! 👊🇺🇸 -Gary
Thank you, I would have been lost without this video!
Great video. Thanks for posting.
Great info,thanks.
I like your explanation, very nicely done
Much respect for a great video. Its not often that I come across a video that's truly useful. Ive been shooting and hunting for over 40 years and have seen many changes in the industry over that time. You provided one of the best informative and instructional videos I have every viewed. It shows that you enjoy what you do. Thanks for your service and last like you I dont like trolls who know less than nothing and act like clowns. Just keyboard warriors hiding behind a computer screen where they dont have to answer for their actions.
That was a very good presentation . Thank you.
thank you for your precious advice, subscribed!!!
Very informative and very interesting. What you say makes sense. Would like to talk to you more about this
Thanks Gary love your passion for this sport. The more knowledge makes a better community and a better competitor you become. Cheers Andy 🇦🇺
Thanks man! And thanks for watching!
👊🍻🇺🇸
-Gary
Just stumbled upon your channel, great stuff!
Thanks man. Glad you found us! -Gary
Good explanations!
Thank you for your service and the great info you have shared,,,,
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
I legit was writing a comment on your how to video that my gun would crack a groundhog out to 400 yards no problem but past that im way off and i had no clue what was going on until i watched your how to video for mounting and your long target. I never had a target explained the way u did in that video which opened my eyes. Since i was a kid we always checked to make sure everything was zeroed a inch high at 100 but never once did i see a long target used the way u explained. Im pumped i believe u have changed my game 100%. Every scope ive had put on in the last 30 years is about to get long targeted. But honetly we always used 2nd fp i been using ffp for last couple years on my newer guns and im loving them. With this information it will sure clean up my groundhog percentage past 600. It always took 3 or 4 to get on target if it didnt run by then just assumed it was wind out at distance but now i understand thank u. This just kinda cemented everything from the part 1 and part 2 videos. So glad i humbled myself into watching them. Really appriciate u taking the time to explain all of this to us for free. I bought your scope mounting kit a couple scopes ago but i never watched part 2 til recently. Prob be trying the long target out tmrw if i can find them somewhere if not ill make one but regardless this is happening tmrw. After i set my scope up tonight.
Absolutely love this guy I am now subscribed going to be ordering some parts from you awesome content and thank you for your service
Thanks for watching man! I appreciate the support! 👊🇺🇸-Gary
Awesome. Thanks.
EXCELLENT VIDEO LEARNED ALOT THANKS
I do it exactly how you're describing, but I also incorporate the plumb bob for redundancy, when I have 3 things telling me the same thing, I am satisfied that it must be correct. I'm shooting air guns and still care for it to be perfect. I did learn something in this tutorial so thank you for the lesson.
Great information. Good to know I have been doing it right.
Great video, my takeaway, always verify my mounting work and the scope quality by shooting a turret tracking test no matter what mounting method is used. With your mounting method, I might be tempted to attach the ant-cant bubble while the scope is off the rifle sitting square on it’s bottom turret housing on a level surface if it balanced well.
Couldn’t have said it better! Thanks for watching! -Gary
Thanks very much for the information!
Thank you and thanks for watching!
-Gary
Great information thanks for sharing
There is always someone arguing that you will be wrong.
💯! I don’t mind people thinking I’m wrong as long as I’ve done all I can do to make the case. While it can be frustrating when people say you’re wrong or disagree with you I try to look at it as my fault for not making my case well enough. After a video like this that illustrates why I believe what I do or use the methodology that I use, if you still disagree, well… you do you. 😂
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Great video! Thank you.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
-Gary
New here. I was actually researching new scopes for my crossbow and came about your channel. I watched the one on leveling the gun and mounting the scope to be level to the gun. Being a lifetime engineer this makes total sense. Thanks for sharing your experience in our armed forces and thank you for your service! Keep up the great videos to help us all become better marksmen/markswomen, both on the range, self-defense, and ethical harvesting of our game.
Glad you found us Steve! Welcome to the Paramount family! We look forward to seeing you in the comments often. Make sure to join us live on Fridays! If you ever have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me either on here or via email. Thanks, Gary
Your an excellent teacher. I am brand new to learning about scopes and long distance shooting. Thank you so much. I have one question, what is a turret.
Dude I thought I knew a lot about mounting scopes ! Your videos have shown me I’m ignorant and need you to come to SD and teach me! I love your videos. Your last video on mounting scopes is exactly how I’ve been mounting them for years. But now after this video I realize I know very little. I’d love you to come to my area and give a class for a few days and mount scopes for long range work. Then let’s shoot them and prove out you concepts. I need more of your knowledge please.
Great video!
I didn't know scope mounting was so nit picky. When you talked a little bit about confirming all your levels using a machinist level you gained 10 more points from me.
Lots of great info. I liked the level VS flat part lol
Damn nice job of explaining plum and level and it's Outcome Thank you
Only knew about tall target test as a way to determine velocity w/o a chrono and verify turret tracking accuracy (e.g., how true the MOA/MIL is). This knowledge of erector being square internally vs thinking environmental conditions causing POI being from where doped had my mind going WHOA! That's it! I'm a Subscriber!
I do overkill scope mounting with Wheelers Pro kit and ARISAKA leveling tool, and only have one 20 MOA rail that will get this new info treatment Thanks.
Just sent my PST to Vortex. Thanks for making this video, I also have a dozen levels and obsess over perfection.
Thanks for all these videos, very informative! I'm a former US Army Sapper myself, so I know CQB well enough. Precision long range shooting? Not so much. I've got alot to learn, and it's great to be able to hear it from a subject matter expert.
Thanks for your service and thanks for watching! 👊🇺🇸-Gary
Essayons
Essayons!
Your videos are awesome!
Thank you and thanks for watching!
-Gary
Excellent explanation.
Thanks, and thanks for watching!
-Gary
Solid info, thanks. What about height over bore? Does mounting scope higher or lower matter?
The higher a scope is mounted the less elevation adjustment is available. More critical for long range work (e.g., 600 yds +). Also high mounting can interfere with a good consistent cheek weld. Removable cheek risers will help obtain a good cheek weld and you don't have to drill through the buttstock.
Great content, I only wish you could be in Aus. I would support your business 100%. Just keep up the great work. Cheers, mate.
Thanks for the support brother! If you’re ever over here in the DC area hit us up and come out and shoot! -Gary
Good info , thanks
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Great video, glad you ok the plum bob at the end, as that is what I use. I make sure my rifle is level and solid, then use the plum bob. But I seldom shoot more than a hundred yards. At 75 that is far enough to have some fun, and can not afford top notch equipment on a pension. Got my first rifle when I was 11 years old, so have been shooting for some time. I always shot open sights, till my eyes got not so good, and now not shooting as good with a scope as I did with open sights, getting a bit frustrating.
I am impressed with your level of competency and knowledge, and communication skill.
Thanks Bill, and thanks for watching!
-Gary
1st off …. Thank You For Your Service Brother
2nd … I am a long range shooter as well and I agree on 100% of everything you discussed in your video. Nice Job!!
Excellent video. I experienced the same problem but with a red dot mounted on the right side of a scope. The shooter next to me couldn’t manage to zero his red dot for elevation or windage. Since it was a dot there was no way to see if he was holding parallel on target since the red dot was side mounted at around 45 degrees. Every time he changed windage his height also changed. I noticed him becoming extremely annoyed. So I explained it in similar fashion.
Leveling to the rail. I did not consider that one and took it for granted that my rail will be level to my action. I need to go back and confirm. Thanks!
Great information, so many people don't know you can place a small piece of a mirror on the front of their scope [this will give a reflection of the reticle] to check the reticle inside the scope, this will tell if the reticle is centered up-down -left-right..
You absolutely can but that only tells you so much. People also tend to adjust their guns to make the reticle plumb. Just bc your reticle is plumb in the mirror, doesn’t mean your optic is plumb to the gun, or the reticle is plumb to the optic. It all matters. How you mount a scope is ultimately irrelevant. What is important is to test and the only way to confirm all the above (or diagnose issues) is to shoot a tall target test. If you don’t confirm on a tall target, you’re just assuming you’re good. Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Really good stuff
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
I have to admit I was critical of your video. Turns out I have a scope and the turret is not level. It has a screw right in the center of the turret cap. I use levels and the plumb method combined as I am a little ocd about this topic. Awesome job my friend and awesome video.
This Green Beret Bad Ass & I Crossed Paths On My Hops With Tier 1 JSOC 18 Delta Force (CAG) Squad D & G. Ft. Bragg NC. I Opted For Option 40 Out Of High School And Cut My Teeth Becoming An Army Ranger The Command Then Sent Me To Army Sniper & At That Time It Was 10’Weeks At Ft. Benning As Well. This Operator Knows His Shit & Is 1 Of The Very Best With All His Credentials When In Military & Has Still Has The Best Schools For People To Go Attend & Soak Up The Information & Education On Private Civilian Sector. Appreciate You & Yours. Keep It Coming 👍🤛🇺🇸
Thank u!
With knowledge comes a responsibility to share that knowledge. Addressing shortcomings becomes important because we learn from our mistakes while learning little from our success. Liked & subbed.
Never heard of the scope internals like you explained SF - FANTASTIC💥‼️‼️‼️💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🇺🇸
Learning a lot from you. Thanks. I'm learning distance shooting and it's a real eye-opener. Ran out of clicks. Could you do a video on cant shims vs. MOA rails vs. adjustable rings. I apologize in advance if I'm saying something dumb.
Thanks and glad you found us. I probably won’t do a video on that bc there’s not enough meat on that bone. Here’s what you need to know: if you’re going to shoot beyond 800ish yards you need ~20 MOAs of elevation to augment most optics, especially cheaper ones. Shims IMO or anything adjustable are terrible solutions. You need either 20MOA scope base/rails or one piece mounts. LR is about eliminating variables and cheap gear or poorly designed gear adds variables. Doesn’t mean you have to buy Gucci gear, just be an informed buyer and stick with industry well known brands. I also have 2 virtual optics courses on our channel that I did for livestreams. You should check those out. Or, better yet go to our website and sign up for one of our Long Range courses. It will be a good investment and save you money and frustration. Also on our website, paramounttactical.com we could carry any brand or item I wanted to carry but the only items we carry are items I’ve personally tested so there’s no question if they work or not.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
Thank you for your service brother I love you brother thank you bro.
The four minute intro made me subscribe. Thank you for being realistic, reasonable and easy to listen to. It nice to hear about your expertise, it also nice to know that just being in the service isn't a catch all for your knowledge.
Thanks Ryan, I appreciate that. I’m glad you found us. Be sure to join us on Wednesdays at 7pm ET for our live Dangerous Liberty Podcast.
Wishing you and your a wonderful Thanksgiving. -Gary
I should’ve watched the whole video before commenting because you touched on exactly what I was trying to say, and I have seen over the years
Great explanation and easy to understand. Wondering if a digital level would be any better.
I think with a good digital level it most likely would be better.
I have run across some scopes on the extreme cheap end that the turret and cross hairs didn't match up to level. Half the time they were broken internally.
Arisaka is what I use to level mine.
Ultimately method doesn’t matter. Verification is what matters and I cover that in this video in my Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting video.
But I have run into issues with scope mounting wedges.
I’ll link both videos below for you to check out.
Why Scope Leveling Wedges Don't Work
czcams.com/video/AbvVTIKPh88/video.html
Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2
czcams.com/video/OG8CchRYlDw/video.html
Part 2
Tall Target Test - Critical Step For Long Range Accuracy
czcams.com/video/gsiZKRKnkb0/video.html
Great video! I am in the process of mounting a scope on my cz457. Decided to wait and get some better levels. Thanks for information on the best way to do this. Where is the best place to get the tall target and tracking test?
Thanks for watching! Here you go. Link to the ones I use (not affiliated). www.boxtobenchprecision.com/
@@paramounttactical Thanks! Do you have any videos showing the process when using one of these tracking targets?
So I am a Tool and Die maker, Hitting .0001 of an inch on a CNC is much harder to do than you think, there is also the fitup between the male and female screws, on top of the other surfaces that need to be machined, each one of those things has a tolerance and they stack. A bubble level isn't super precise in the world of machining either, they make specialty machinist levels that are far more accurate.
I am not arguing that this isn't the best way to do it, because that is outside my wheelhouse, I don't level scopes professionally, even if this is the best way of doing it though, there will be error.
I don’t disagree with any of that but with multimillion dollar companies that have decent QC processes in place, the surfaces are flat, level and parallel within a tolerance more than adequate to level the scope. And you’re right bubble levels are not that accurate and that is what you use to level. My point is the surfaces are WAY more accurate than the levels. To properly level a scope we need to get within less than 1 degree. The accuracy of the surfaces even with all tolerances and imperfections stacked will not hold us back from achieving that. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your thoughtful input and experience! -Gary
@@paramounttactical yes sir, keep up the great information!
I like it. You had to dish out some humble pie. Then pulled out the chalk board like Glenn Beck. Kids cutting up in the comments section. Fact is. Results Matter. I’ll be implementing your practices into my firearms. 👍👍👍
Crystal clear. Excellent illustration. Suggestion for content: A cost effective DIY accurate DMR setup AR10 build that can double for a hunting rifle. You assemble it and shoot it 800+ yards.
Thanks for your kind words. It’s appreciated. That is a great suggestion. I’m putting that on my video to do list! Thanks, Gary
@@paramounttactical reviewing your info as tune up to mount a Arken SH4 gen2 on AR10 with 20 moa mount. Very on point to get it right the first time. Per your suggestions gotta purchase some more mounting tools. Nothing is better than using the right tools for the job.
@@backwardog1 we try to make things easy. Here’s all my recommendations in one kit. paramounttactical.com/product/scope-mounting-bundle/
Wow! Great stuff!!
We're you trained with the MOA system or MRAD? or both?
Just wondering if you might have a preference for either system,,,
I'm not a long range guy by any means but like to have a complete understanding of my system.
I've recently become a subscriber and am really looking forward to your great work and the insight you share.
You know the deal,,,the learning process never stops,,,,
Thank you for the help and please keep up the great work!
😎👍
Thanks Bill. I know both Mil and MOA and was trained on both. I prefer and recommend MIL. I have some virtual optic classes that I’ve given that you can find if you search the channel. Definitely worth watching and I go into depth about Mil and MOA and discuss why I recommend Mil over MOA.
Glad you found us. Welcome to the Paramount Family!
-Gary
@Paramount Tactical Great! Oh and by the way as I forgot to mention it earlier,,,,
THANK YOU for your service!
Looking forward to becoming familiar with MIL dot characteristics.
😎👍
@@billturner1960 thank you sir!
Fantastic content! While most people are out there just offering opinions, Gary's out here offering opinions backed by experience and backing it with solid, logical, testable, repeatable explanations. To go beyond that 80% most people can get to, it all comes down to the details - and Gary plainly identifies and explains why those details are so important. Doesn't matter if you're shooting competitively, hunting, or just enjoying some alone time on a range while honing your proficiency.
Thank you. I really appreciate your kind words.
I avoided the entire CZcams world for a long time because I didn’t want to be associated with the silliness that makes up 90% of the channels with firearm content. When I made the decision to do YT I wanted to be different and focus on what I believed matters and do it with integrity, not focusing on views or subscribers.
Hopefully we’ll continue to grow and be successful but either way, I’ll still be able to look myself in the mirror. Thanks for watching! -Gary
@paramounttactical I totally agree with your thoughts on YT and those on it. I used to think the same thing a few years ago, but thanks to guys like you and others who actually know what they're talking about, I now come to them for correct information. Thank for your service to our country and to this platform. You are a valuable asset
Nice information. Not an easy subject to explain. When you said elevation becomes windage and windage becomes elevation I got slightly confused until you clarified it a few moments later. Maybe saying windage ends up becomes windage and elevation in this situation. Overall, you explained it wonderfully
I love your videos. I bought my first scope based partly on a review you did comparing the Atacr 5-25x56mm to the Zero Compromise scope. I was wondering how the heck am I going to mount this sucker when I saw your scope mounting video. It was exactly what I needed.
I also watched your scope mounting myth busters video. It was great. My wife says your arms are too big. I have two children. The reality is if I looked like you, I would have 15.
😂 Glad you found us! Welcome to the Paramount Family!
Adjusting windage with a canted scope can also move your vertices causing you to chase impact.
The Test which you did with the Scores in the first Part of your Video, did you Test it with the ZCO too? Can i use the Turret too in the ZCO? Thank you .
Great video! I have a 6.5 x 20 x 50 leupold European scope with a canted reticle that has always caused issues...you convinced me to pull it off my ruger 300 prc. What's your best choice for long range plinking?
Just depends on your budget. I personally like Nightforce. You can’t go wrong with the ATACRs and with a 300 PRC I’d suggest the 7-35 but if that’s not in the budget the NX8s are great too. We are a Nightforce dealer so if you are looking for a NF email us services@paramounttactical.com.
There’s lots of other good options too though. Vortex, Leupold, or if you want a budget optic check out my review on the Arken EP5. Pretty good optic under $500.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
@@paramounttactical email on the way.
Thanks for your service Sir!
Hmmmm...Was at Krieger booth at SHOT, and they enthusiastically recommend a specific break in procedure....
“I’m not a seal, I don’t like to talk about myself” hahahahahha!
I threw that in for you Chuck.
Thanks for watching!
-Gary
What’s your opinion on the badger ordnance dead level?