Who is Warhammer The Old World REALLY for?
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2024
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Who is Warhammer Old World REALLY for? We look back at the new Games Workshop Warhammer Fantasy game to see just what it's like. Nostaliga and Old hammer might play a big part in the appeal, but what if you're a new beginner Warhammer player, is it for you? Join Ciara and I as we take a look at and even play a game.
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Guys, guys, guys ... don't forget that a lot of AoS models are compatible with Old World. I mean... obviously Daemons but lots of others too.
I like how you tried to say "Ironically, they're just as expensive as modern models" but got cut off twice XD
Haha.
Not liking the Dwarfs? That's a grudgin'!
THAT'S GOIN IN THE BOOK!
I feel like an issue here was that the dwarfs had a fair amount of what makes dwarfs good - tough infantry and shooting while the Tomb Kings had none of the parts of the tomb king army that actually pack any punch.
Yeh, for sure! It was just the models we had handy so Ciara could roll some dice. The TK definitely need some wizard powers!
The problem with TK back in the day was that they were absolutely horrible rules-wise. 7ed introduced changes to the VC to address some of their problems, but the TK saw none of those changes despite having the exact same problems. It's not exactly fun playing a faction that guarantees you lose ever game you play because your lich priest just gets nuked off the board turn one.
It's a weirdly unacknowledged thing in the hobby, but sales do have a habit of following rules. When you look at the least popular factions in Fantasy or 40k, they tend to have two major things in common - their rules are awful and their model lines don't receive updates (See Dark Eldar for a current 40k example)
This is the game for me, the customization and freedom is what draws me, combined with the really nice gameplay.
Yes. A great deal happened here.
But it's a very long story, and even if we sat for weeks and weeks, I wouldn't be able to tell it properly. Let me use an analogy. Perhaps the first few pages of the 'Long Expected Party' seem quite dull compared to a modern fantasy novel.
But what follows is the Lord of the Rings.
Well said Dr
One thing I've been saying about TOW models compared to the modern kits, is I find the build process of new models really exhausting. The sprues are laid out so randomly combined with there's so many bespoke cuts that you've got to painfully hunt over the sprue for the 1 piece you need. I remember when you could cut everything into piles and just go. Modern models are so packed with fiddly details it feels like they're more designed for macro photography than toys to play with at arms length. The mono pause models also look great as one offs but the minute I get duplicates it's really noticeable. I really appreciate that TOW reminds me of these being toys first. I just wish they were priced accordingly.
I cant wait for the Dwarfs box. I just wish Chorfs came back too.
TOW has got me back since 5th... Wow am I finding this out! Currently assembling a lizardmen army from new models and it's tough going
I do find assembling newer Citadel kits a real hassle, especially compared to the infinite poseability of 2000-ish era plastics.
Got into this game in back in 1990. Best tabletop game ever. So happy they decided to bring this back; hope it is successful!
Play Dragons rampant, much cheaper, wargames atlantic, oathmark and many other companies these days makes multi part miniatures with a huge kitbashing oportunity instead of giving money to a company that's toxic against both staff and fanbase
That kinder egg comment was BRUTAL
It hurt. What hurt more is she actually correct 😂
To be fair, the Tomb Kings models weren't among the better models in their time and in this version of the kit they've actually used some even older VC Skellies as base Skelly Warrior models. While the Skeleton Steeds date to 3rd Edition and the very first plastic Skeleton box.
Tomb Kings were never a popular army, and I think that's because their models (and to a lesser extent their rules) let them down as they became very popular lorewise.
@@philipbowles5397Nah, screw the models - people played Tomb Kings for fun lore and never minded the models. Sucky rules was the main thing that made them unpopular and generally unplayable. They were undead that didn't have access to VC necromantic tricks that made vampiric armies useful.
the sad thing is they WERE cheap gaming peaces. Those skeletons were cheaper than a kinder egg each when I used to collect. It was the idea that every model needed to be master-peace quality and cost more than a full meal each that turned me and lots of player off.
The real saving grace of the older multi-part plastic kits is that you can just clip them out into a pile without having to keep track of what's what. Everything fits with everything else, etc. 20 torsos, 20 legs, 20 sets of arms, 20 heads, and you're golden. You can clip, trim, and then piece them together afterward.
By comparison, putting together my Khorne guys was more trial and error when I first started with AoS.
Same can be said for other manufacturers.
In Oathmark, for instance, arms from one kit will fit a body from another.
It is mostly true for Mantic, as well.
@@user-df5nb8zy7e yep, I do miss this kind of inter adaptability in GW kits. The modern ones go together cleanly, sure, but the lack of differing poses is lame.
Monopose kits are an objectively wrong design direction when it comes to kits representing infantry for horde armies (Ork Boyz? Cultists? Seriously?). At the very least, they could be monopose and easy to build - like the mostly single-part (and fun to convert) Poxwalkers.@@DayneGodwin
So hard when someone else doesnt love the thing you do so much!
Haha, nah, it's all good. I'll make sure to set her up with a wood elf dragon next time!
not that hard if you love a pile of scrap sculpted mini that GW make you pay like they are made out with gold.
@@BroadswordWargaming not sure if you could film it, but some of the more modern sculpts for 3d printing might be a nicer army that ciara may care about. but i did not say this *hides from GW wrath*
@@greggtierney8418 highland miniatures, last sword miniatures, onepage rules
also reconquer design has some nice (mostly historical) that would make a nice bretonian army
@@miketogwell1000 I'm currently doing orcs, because I bought the mega paint set from army painter and they gave me so many greens it would be a shame to not do orcs
Tbh Old World is for me. I used to play a lot of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with my friends back in the day and when I finally get to the miniature painting hobby around 2020 I was looking to buy some models from THE Warhammer. Turns out that there are only space warhammers from the future and weird medieval ones which world is completely different from my Warhammer. So with the rerelease of the Empire models I will finally be able to buy warhammer models that I pictured in my mind all those years.
For me the biggest problem is that there are basically two different groups of people interested in this hobby. Old Guard with their old models expecting everything to be as it was in the past. And younger people who grew up playing Total War games and want to use new (usually better) models that don't fit on the bases. Shoutout to my Lizardmen players.
Typical GW nonsense aside, Old World is a wonderful blend of what made each of the recent WHFB editions great. Only quibble with the rules is how toned down and flattened each faction has been written, which was presumably done for balance reasons and a more 6th edition feel. I expect with supplements many of them will come into their own and have more flavor, but even now the game is just as fun as I remember it being. I already have two people with little to no wargaming experience starting armies for it. Once the old Empire plastics go up for sale I will be happy to buy them, but in the meantime I am having a great time with my existing collection that has sat patiently since the end of 8th edition when I was graduating high school.
I had hoped they would get rid of the to-hit tables. Would be so much simpler if units just had a value (eg: 3+) on their WS or BS, at least.
Never gonna play it, but it does seem about as balanced as WHFB ever could be. Barring maybe the dragon spam.
@@pronumeral1446 Get rid of the to-hit tables? Blasphemy!
AOS also started off pretty basic and has added more flavor over time
I’m just happy
Enough to finally make a Bretonnian army without having to do model archeology
Ciara needs the chaos of orcs and goblins clearly 🤣
Crazy mad stuff.. that makes sense. Wait until she starts launching Goblins at my beautiful movement trays.
It's definitely a nostalgia thing. I have my dwarves and elves from 1st and 2nd edition, so it's a great way to get them back on the table top and stick on some late 80's music
Love Ciara's voice and old world phrasing. She really took one for the team in this video.
Haha. She speaks her truth. Kinder egg toys. lol.
I gotta admit one of my favorite things about your content is that you both agree to disagree on things and explain why
Ah thanks! We do try to stay honest. We have very different experiences with gaming, so it's nice to hear it from someone else's perspective. 😊
For me it's all about the lore. Fantastic worldbuilding.
So good. Delighted to have it back.
Totally agree, I think I’d personally be more excited if GW did a more modern ruleset but just set in the Old World. Frankly Age of Sigmar rules or Warcry but in the Old World setting would be good. A Fantasy version of Warhammer Quest or the return of Mordheim would be fantastic.
Yup, kind of really bored with AOS lore.
The whole 15th-16th century look, isn't for me. Whereas the TOW has more of a 12th-13th century look, love that.
I've found that the easiest way to paint skeletons is to undercoat them white, basecoat the armour in metallics and wood brown, then wash the entire model with Agthrax Earthshade. You can easily knock out an entire army over a weekend. (Or a long weekend if you want to spend extra time painting characters.)
"Put on Stargate" you guys are now my favourite youtube channel.
It's a classic hobby show. 👌
@@BroadswordWargaming And there's SO MUCH of it as all of it is good. Almost 350 eps.
me, its for me, when they killed off Fantasy and replaced it with AOS I just was not interested in the lore and it is the lore that makes me want to play the game, now old world is back I am interested again.
My club is participating in Games Workshop book club this Friday evening. Everyone will be reading the rulebook, mostly the index, and frantically searching for rules which weren't listed in the index. Great fun is anticipated!
Honestly the most fun part of the older styles of Warhammer is the list building. Not that I don't love the game and ToW is actually a very tight system, but what it brought back for me was the ability to tell a story when creating my army. I'm not just adding 5 or 10 Dudes who always come equipped identically, I'm building regiments and detachments and modeling specific wargear. I'm telling a story.
Basically, building a list feels like creating an RPG character. Exactly like DnD the game is fun if confusing and a bit overcomplicated for what is really "necessary" but the point is it impacts the list building and adds character. It's not just A Tomb Kings army, it's MY Tomb Kings army.
That’s possible with any warhame
I do like 40k (a lot) and start to gain some sympathy towards AOS - but TOW is what I wanted as a child and dreamt of doing but I was too young, knew no one who had it and probably could have never afforded it. So it gives me the option to build the armies I wanted to around the time 5th Ed. came out. Big nostalgia.
For those not a fan of the old Dwarf sculpts, and you don't mind third party sculpts, consider looking into Oathmark models from North Star Military Figures. They've got a few different Dwarf plastic kits, for making different unit types + loadouts, along with a number of metal models to round out the army. (They've also got a bunch of other fantasy armies in this vein, like Elves, Orcs + Goblins, Humans, and Undead. You know, if any of those are more your speed. The company's Frostgrave line even has plastic kits + metal models for Gnolls and Snakemen, if you want some alternative styles of Beastmen.)
Wow, Broadsword's little heart got broken, stomped, and kicked out of the studio. 😂😂
Just stumbled upon your channel while looking for old world content. So far I havent found anything I really liked, but the brief pseudo battle report you filmed seemed to be exactly what I wanted (abridged gameplay footage with a narration explaining the broad strokes of whats going on)
Subscribed in hopes that yall get deeper into the Old World : )
Love Ciara’s honest opinions and Oliver’s enthusiasm, you two are the best :)
As a new player, I've spent a good amount of money getting models together. But, on the whole, I've been super excited to be getting into the game! Colleccting and paint all my new models has been a lot of fun
Love the dynamic between you guys, hope to see more of you both
Thanks! 😀
It’s a game for me! Someone who couldn’t afford them when I was a kid, but now I can! It was always a dream of mine to have a Tomb Kings army, and now I finally can!
Yep, battle report. Do it.
I do enjoy vids that have balance in them...the fact that one of you enjoys this and the other doesn't helps us make informed decisions because you call out what you do and don't like more naturally. Keep it goin.
Also the aesthetic of a well painted fantasy army just looks so amazing
It's for me because I played Vermintide and Total War Warhammer, I already love playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, I have a bunch of 40k and AOS models painted and now I get to paint Bretonnian Knights, my favorite Warhammer Faction of all time.
I'm 30 WHFB nerd. I am so glad it came back. It takes time to paint, time to play, time to learn but it is sooooooo much more rewarding. I do love 40k but WHFB is what started it all...
This review pretty much sums my feelings up. I went ooooo old Fantasy dug out my old 5th edition Bretonian models which were unassembled from the boxed set (I collected Lizardmen) got them out looked at them for a bit. Then I put them away and have spent the week assembling and painting Cities of Sigmar models.
I may at some point play a game with my old Skaven which are all ready to rumble then I might get the bug again but I can’t see myself collecting much until new more exciting models come out….. I must admit those foot knights for Betonians look cool so they might intice me! 😂
1) Square bases
2) Old Models
3) More models
4) Flanking
Ok, now that you have highlighted the good bits, where are the downsides?
Watching you guys play reminded me that when I started college back in 1998 I had a demo game of Warhammer Fantasy. I didn't like it.
It wasn't until 2015 with a demo of Age of Sigmar that I fell in love with Warhammer, and that opened the door to all sorts of Tabletop games for me.
This game is a fantasy version of historical games, like a napoleonic war with orcs, skelettons and dark elfs in underwear. AOS's miniatures look cool, but it feels like 40k. This is bad because i don't want to play 2 games with almost the same rules. I want to feel like a general, and i want to feel the weight of my army. Instead of rushing for the objectives, even if it means i got killed, but win, i have to maneuver and pick my fights to kill because this is how you win.
I never played it back in the days and i'm a firm believer that even the old models will look dope once painted with modern techniques.
My problem is that people say AoS and 40k are the because they both use the same base system when if you actually play both games you'd understand there are very few similarities. It would be like me saying Conquest and TOW play the same because they're both rank and flank when that's simply not true. I don't mind fantasy players not like AoS but it does irk me when they feel the need to throw in a surface level generalization to justify it instead of "I just don't like it"
Agreed with Kiera, you need a set of models to reel you in
I wasn't vibing with the Old World until I saw the Gnomes by Warp Miniatures
Now I'm running GNOMES!!! as Chaos Dwarfs
I’ve been into warhammer fantasy since the 90’s as well and for the last like 10 years been buying older models on eBay. Love metal 90s minis.
I’ve noticed since old world came out suddenly people are charging a fortune for old wood elves and dwarfs etc haha luckily I grabbed most of the classic stuff already 🤙🏻
Did I see her not count 5s as hits for the tomb king archers?
I wish I had bought Battle for skull pass back in the day. I like the old models generally, not all of them. It might be nostalgia but the thing is I never stopped preferring those simpler styled models, and most of what I buy is like that.
Rumour has it that both Skull Pass and Island of Blood will get rereleases, and they've certainly reused the Skull Pass art a lot. If so, though, I expect them to be limited Made to Order things through the GW store, not main range releases - Island of Blood certainly won't get a 'core' release as Skaven aren't a supported faction.
Thanks for the Displate link. Brilliant product
Great video, really enjoyed it. I started playing in ‘92 and being able to get the old models at retail prices is grand. 100% accurate on the kinder egg skellies - they were weedy models back in the day as well!
Great video, I really hope to see the second playthrough of you two! I'm trying to find a nice fantasy miniature game for me and my friend, while I really like the more "realistic" combat in the Old World I'm afraid that the game be to complicated for casual players, so I wonder if I should start Age of Sigmar instead.
The mould lines are absolutely killing me on these guys
Thanka for the video!
I thought tomb king archers always hit on 5+ regardless of modifiers
"They look like kinder egg toys" - ouch!
Yes! More of the Old World please.
Give me those high elves!
"They weigh about a gram..." sounds like Kiera needs some 90's lead models :D
There is an option what me and a friend are going to try and that's use a cardboard standy army army to see if we are going to like it before paying £100-£200 out for a army or 3D printing ones
Kiera mentioned KoW, I’m curious- do you enjoy that and how do you both feel about them rated against each other? I play KoW (badly) and much prefer Mantic’s rules and approach in most ways but I suppose out of curiosity what’s what’s you take?
I quit the hobby when GW dropped fantasy towards the end of 8th edition. I now get a chance to paint my lead Green Knight, my old grail knights and all the mid 90s miniatures I have. I guess its for old and nostalgic people like me, that also love the massive scale of the battles with hundreds of models on the board at time.
I never liked AoS and their over the top models, where every one looks like a mishmash of a hero and a god. It always felt like an amalgamation of fantasy and 40k. So im so happy to see fantasy return with the Old World and some of the new models they made for it are absolutely gorgeous.
8:36 You pulled a bunch of good rolls there. Skeleton Archers ignore to hit penalties. So they always hit on 5+.
Weirdly Ciara I think those are the four things I love about Warhammer Fantasy Battle .
"They look like Kinder Egg toys" is the best condemnation of this sad flaccid nostalgia grab.
Finally an honest review! 🙏 Love your channel, great work!
I appreciate that!
It is so cool that they brought the Old World stuff back but I do hope they update all the old sculpts. The game sounds like fun though
I played the original fantasy battle years ago great game 😊
Would love to see a battle report pls
Battle report please! Thanks for the great video guys!
who in 2012 looks in a car, sees warhammer fantasy miniatures and steals them?? how unlucky is that
"I hate flanking" - "Frontally charges a bunch of tanky dwarves with the light cav" ... auch ... you might not want to give her wood elves ... Chaos warriors or Dark elves maybe?
square bases and old models are the dream.
Yeah! Old Boys rise again.
Lovely dwarfs, please make a video on howb
to batch paint them
Great video! She was fairly more open minded at the end
for me its not just nostalgia, i think the old models had a much more simple design which gave the models alot of charm. and also gave great conversion possibilities. Newer models, especially from GW, have way too much stuff going on on the model. And the over the top style of the poses is really off putting to me.
I have a few of the old minitures that were given to me
I love the game and I'm so glad it's back. When I had to move to 40k with their 360 degree firing archs, I thought it was stupid.
I am currently painting these old dwarfs. Perfect for batch painting.
I am whatever the opposite of a dwarf player is.. but somehow, they're winning me over. I think a small dwarf Detachment is in order!
Aww Ciara you did so well - palpable underwhelment :) smirks made me laugh
Good review
There are not enough CZcams videos from you and Ciara. More videos please...
You can literally see the point where Ciara internally goes "Oh FFS" after "It's like Kings of War, but more complicated!" 😂
Haha. It's fun to mess with her.. especially when its true! 😄
Unless you are looking at end times, when GWs goal was to get you to get as many models on the table.
I kind of feel like 3rd ed AOS also has a ton of models on the table.
Ive only played a few TOW games, but I'm not fielding as many models as my last few AOS games. This is partly due to how two separate factions play, obviously some factions in either, will field waaay more models than others. Comparing Skaven AOS to Ogre AOS is fairly different.
Well they've left a statement, last I recall hearing anything about this game, about how they wont be releasing for a lot of armies. Like the lizardmen. So if nothing else it's definitely not for me. Or any Skaven mains for that matter.
You didn't mention the most important part of the box; the whippy sticks. I'm building a Warriors of Chaos army using the new Slaves to Darkness stuff so it's less old (cheap looking) models, and more of the new good stuff.
I love a good flank, you could almost say I’m a big flanker
Don't we all!
Are you gonna do something Old World related with Zorpazorp? He teased something about Oldworld a while ago and if you both like it, it would be super fun to see you both at it
I have the Bretonnian box. There’s something lovely about simpler miniatures. They are a breeze to paint.
i put on star trek in the background while painting too :D
I'm looking forward to either a chaos Warriors army using the new models or a vamp count army using the new models also. But like........ Maybe a beastmen.... Or orcs.......
......... Basically there is no reason why you Need to use the old miniatures.
Even empire there is enough new options that can be usable.
Also there is something cathartic about bringing a strategy together with widdle, then grind and flanking an enemy. It's a little bit like a chess strategy that comes together.
Awesome FairPlay
Ah man I forgot about the great theft of 2012, bloody bastards
Square models, old models, ranking send flanking. Drool. You had me at Old World.
What's the issue with square models? I mean it looks way cleaner, and also allows for formations like in classic war :D
My main issue is that everything now seems to be on 25mm bases. So most old models will need to be rebased to be used
Yeah, that is a bit annoying. I've been looking, and there are some good options out there, though. You can get movement trays that space the models apart correctly, so you don't need to rebade actual models. 😀
i had a Empire army back in the 90's. :)
Empire and undead for me. I always wanted more blocks of those plastic halberdiers. 😀
lol my army was mostly halberds and long guns, BOOMSTICKS and CHOPPYCHOPS
@@BroadswordWargaming
A lot of those Tomb kings look like the old skeleton hoard figures i had in the 80s. Possibly the sme moulds.
Yes, i like to see more. Im thinking of starting a dwarf army or beastmen, i havent decided yet.
Man the old models are the draw! They are so good. I much prefer them over the over-designed monopose AOS models!!
But those modern prices for ancient models is….rough
They've been doing it with Skaven and Beastmen for years before The Old World came along.
I loved WH Fantasy back in the day but I completely agree with your point about there being way too many bits to clip out and assemble. I was hoping part of the update would be monopose easy-to-assemble kits for the standard block infantry models (seeing as how GW absolutely LOVES monopose models these days) which would've been perfect for the massive infantry blocks you'd see in Fantasy. I played High Elves, Vampire Counts and Skaven and of those 3 the VC had the absolute worst assembly experience. Skaven were much easier to assemble en masse because all their block infantry were just hunched over rats with either shields and spears or hand weapons, so IRRC each one was 3 maybe 4 parts at most. HE were not super hard to assemble but painting them was tough because I was inexperienced and there was a lot of white on those models.
Old world battle reports would be great. 🤞
Interesting to see
The square bases and lighter models are some of the things that make me happy to see old-world stuff as it makes them more useful for some of the other games I play.
I can totally understand newer players being put-off by the bigger rulebooks, they weren't always reader-friendly.
I love the old models from 6th edition, especially compared to 8th and AoS. The different approach to perspective and proportions makes them look fantastic in formations, while late editions and AoS stuff change from beautiful and detailed sculpts to blob once gathered in a large numbers.
Army sizes will be about the size of 6th or 7th, which translates to similar or smaller numbers of models than in comparably-sized Age of Sigmar armies for most factions, rather than 8th's hordes - it's a myth that WFB has bigger armies than AoS. Tomb Kings specifically are a horde army, and aren't comparable with the more elite AoS incarnation of the same archetype, but stuff like Chaos and Beasts which are literally the same army in both games will be comparably-sized and unit costs are similar. For instance Dryads cost 130pts for 10 in new WFB and 100 in AoS.
Tomb kings and dwarfs do have some of the lightest models in the old world. Hence them not feeling too robust. Plenty of metal coming back which is definitely not light 😅
Wood elves will be good, I remember Ciara painting Araloth in an older vid and it looked great.
Big heavy Durthu needed.
If those models aren't heavy enough for your liking then I would suggest using considerably older ones!