eMTB etiquette: How to Ride eMTB...
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
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00:00 Chapters
1:27 LMNT
2:45 Passing on Climbs
4:44 Climbing trails
5:18 Don’t Ditch
5:36 Access
5:55 Climb Challenges
6:20 Bike Control
7:19 Other trail users
7:39 Yielding
8:08 Horsies
8:27 Drama Free - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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Love this stuff....
Thanks for this. I don’t know if it’s an e-bike thing, or maybe that many of the emtb riders are younger, but I regularly get literally pushed out of the way by emtbs attempting to pass on a climb and they don’t say a damn thing. Rude as hell. I know my human powered ass is slow, just say hello and I’ll do my best to get outta your way. Out of every hundred times I get passed, maybe two or three say anything at all. Most have this weird silent expectation. Half the time I just don’t hear them coming. It’s frustrating and sometimes dangerous. We’re all out there together, enjoy the ride.
Nah thats new mountain bikers in general. You just notice emtb cause they pass u more
@@Kay0Bot You are probably right, hard to tell.
Would completely agree, tons of newer users in the past 4-ish years. So these general rules are less for e bikes and more for just newer mountain bikers
Id say its new riders. since Ive been riding for a long time I already understood the same etiquette if a faster regular bike climber wanted to pass me. you just wait until it safe and that rider can either stop on the side or you have enough space to just go by. With that said I've had people get all flustered when I come up and tell them I'll wait till its ok to pass and they get all upset cuz they feel pressured. Or I get heckled by half the riders about the ebike lol. I just say I will see you in 5-10 years on an ebike and you will happily enjoy it :)
One pet peeve as a local trail maintainer is that ebikers have started to straightline uphill switchbacks, which creates drainage problems because now you have a straight, steep path for the water to flow. Those switchbacks aren't only there to make it easier to climb, they're also an important part of sustainable trail design. Please don't shortcut them.
Great feedback, thank you Ben. I have seen this in a couple spots, but most of our trails are too narrow or steep for lots of this. .I'll include a "don't cut switchbacks" note in the next etiquette vid.
I vote Jeff’s emtb trail etiquette video is a must watch for every emtb purchase! Out by me the emtb riders can be quite unruly crotchety older guys who think they are owed the world!
I find with when encountering people on horses, that even if you do everything right, they often get mad at you when the horse reacts poorly to bikers. And horse shit on trails is the worst. They should to pick up after them like we expect dog walkers to do.
I've had minimal negative interactions with horse people, believe it or not. I am mentally laughing at them- most are just posturing with their ridiculously huge truck and trailer, poorly trained animal, and rarely ride far or often. The legit horse folk, usually found waaay deep in the woods, are cool as shit.
Nice vid Jeff. We need more of these. One thing that some ebikers do fairly often on the trails that we ride is to create their own shortcuts on climbs because they can handle steeper pinches easily. This unfortunately often causes erosion of the trails as the shortcut is not built by the trail builders and so does not have drainage in mind. Really gives me the sh***ts when people do this. Same rules also apply to downhills for the same reason, so no unsanctioned Strava shortcuts please.
Another good general etiquette is if you come up to pass someone to mention if it is just you or how many other riders may be coming up after you.
Love these types of videos. Don't ride an ebike but can't say I'm not guilty of poor etiquette here and there so this definitely keeps me accountable. Thanks, man.
Another thing is also that e bikers need to keep in mind that sometimes they can get overtaken aswell.
Great video
Cheers
I know I can be passed by a fit person on an mtb... I'm on my emtb
One other thing to note for passing on climbs: SAFETY. I was riding up a "1.5 track" trail with a dropoff on one side and an ebike I hadn't heard passed me on the "exposed" side. I was about to move left around a rock and nearly crashed us both out if the timing had been a moment later. Thank you for this! I'm 100% supportive of more people out riding, but trail etiquette is something that doesn't get talked about as much for newer riders - both pedal-assisted mtb and traditional mtb.
Etiquette needs to be talked about more and consistently. Thanks so much for making this the topic of your vid. Especially today with more and more trail users and less trail maintainers
Amazing videos Jeff :) I would love a well put together video on general trail etiquette. I think these kinds of videos give back to the community a lot!
Jeff going full method with the hiking poles and the Sierra club binoculars. 😂 👏
Rule: If you pass someone on the climb, they had better not catch you on the descent
Right?! Hahaha it's not a race though, we're all just out to have fun.
Jeff this is incredibly well done; I'll be using this as a general etiquette video for many years to come by sharing with friends who are newer to the sport. THANK YOU!
Thank you Adrian! I'll do a regular MTB etiquette video shortly too, this one seems to be well received and helpful, and heck, I did promise it with 1000 likes- we're there within 24 hrs! Wow!
@@JeffKendallWeed big respect for publishing this! ive shared this with so many people. love your attitude. you deserve more subs.
I usually give the hikers right of way by pulling over so they can pass on narrow trails. I always greet other riders. I give down riders best line position as it’s easier for me to move over or pull over while climbing. These are rules I use for regular or emtb. It’s just common respect while out sharing the trails.
Thanks for putting out the trails etiquette. It is worth reminding to all of us outdoors enthusiasts.
Wish all interactions on the trails are all this pleasant. Great video Jeff!
Good video, thank you. In the flying business "lowest and slowest" has priority. Kind of works here too, climbers have priority over descenders. Walkers have priority over bikes have priority over ebikes, and feel free to say hello.
This time of year I'm out at 5AM (as it's light early enough but I usually ride at dawn whenever that is) so rarely see people (one the reasons I ride so early), but when I do I'm always stopping way early for uphill traffic, hikers, etc; sometimes they tell me to just go, sometimes they seem to appreciate my stopping. I always great anybody that I see and tell them to have a good ride, hike, nice day, etc. Things would so much more pleasant if people could be just a bit more polite overall.
A simple hi or wave as you go past others goes a long way - it’s good trail karma. Those same people may have to help you if you get injured or have a mechanical.
Another big pet hate - emtb screams past you on the climb then holds you up on the downhill...
Great vid Jeff. Sharing and respect👍. A good loud bell works too...
I've managed to inadvertently have mastered a "you hoo," whistle for when I meet hikers. More than half the time they look at their phones thinking it was a notification.🤣
Living local, I think I know why this was made. Kudos and thanks for your service
LOVE IT! The video is very informative and I learned something new as a new cyclist. Thank you for your time and effort sir.
Excellent video! Should be required viewing for all emtb riders. Good reminder for most but would greatly benefit the many that (bless their little hearts) have no clue of etiquette on the trails.
Great stuff Jeff! Just activating the algo so the videos keep coming
This was a really good video, thank you!
In Washington state a lot of the bad behavior seems to have worked itself out. A lot of eMTB will climb the road instead of climbing trail. I use to get buzzed by all the time now eMTB'rs will generally give you a heads up. I did have one incident where an eMTB gave me a push by rubbing my rear tire and that infuriated me, but for the most part everyone seems to be self-regulating pretty well. Thanks for making this vid. I think videos like this will really help. Also, I want an eMTB.
Thanks for this Jeff! I've been considering doing a general MTB etiquette video on my channel now for some time and this has lit a fire under my ass. Keep it up 🙌🏻
Simple, we continue to use the same terms Bicycle and Mtnbike like we always have. If it has a motor, call it a Motorcycle or Motorbike.
Happy to say I do all of the etiquette things already, it's mostly common sense stuff. Lots of ebikes in the Hawes area (including mine).
I thought it was just me that noticed this , I have only been riding mountain bikes for maybe 15 years or so but local to me at least it seems to be a much less friendly pastime then is used to be , when i used to get passed by other riders they would always speak , at a trial head pleasantry's where exchanged, you would always where respectful of other riders and allowing them to ride by if i was slower ,people always asked if you had a mechanical issue if you where ok etc . I'm now much fitter so not passed as much but still say high to everyone I see, however most but (not all) e bike riders blast by without speaking and those trial etiquette issues I mention and that the video highlights are MUCH less common then they where .
I do wonder why thy do this , and I do miss the common thread we MTB users used to have of the challenge of ride of being both a climb and a descent but done at differing skill levels , that now seems an old fashioned view . I think Strava has a bit to blame for making "just a ride" a competitive one and perhaps more so some e bike riders coming over form dirt bike usage with maybe some different goals and ideas and attitudes from what a traditional mountain bike rider used to have .
Its a shame that's what has happened E mtb's t cant be uninvited them but maybe if some of these etiquette issues where addressed MTB riding would gain back some of that gloss of a shared common enjoyable pastime it was and less of the friction i now sometimes feel .
I've noticed this too. I don't think it's really the e-bike itself, it's the newer riders that e-bikes seem to attract to (electric) mountain biking. People who otherwise wouldn't have gotten into mtb on a regular pedal bike, put in their dues learning and pedaling up to ride greens, then blues, etc. It's just another quick/cheap thrill for some.
Great job 👍
8:36 this has gotta be one of the most important pieces of advice, regardless of analog or emtb. Chalk up some tallies in the "positive interaction w/ a mountain biker" column for the entire community!!
Yeah I think about this mentality all the time- when traveling internationally as a Caucasian from the USA, when riding my motorcycles, when playing at the park with my kiddo... we all gotta be the best we can be, as our actions can have unexpected consequences. I'd love to see MTBers continue with at least the same amount of trail access we currently enjoy for many, many more years. And hopefully it only gets better!
@@JeffKendallWeed agree 100%!!
Glad to hear you had some sun flurries in the Pacific Northwest! And the simplest rule of thumb is to keep it polite and friendly to everybody! We all win!
It's been straight sun for a week out here. Time to bring back the rain already. Pretty comical actually - my Stockholm syndrome from the winter is so strong I miss the foggy mountain top rides (first full winter in the pnw, it was awesome)
Much needed video...
Great video. We are getting closer and closer to everyone just getting along, but there will always be a**holes (on all sides). Please don't lump everyone that rides a certain type of bike into the same group because of one a**hole. Now that I'm in my mid-50's I ride mostly my mid-power e-bike. Luckily I still climb at "normal" mountain bike speed so most people don't even notice.
meanwhile they are about to ban mountainbikes in any forest here in Germany...
I rode up on a guy with his bike laying across the singletrack while he's standing there picking out rocks. I couldn't give a flying f if you ride an emtb just don't be an idiot.
I ride an e-bike with a friend who has an acoustic bike. I use a kids "ride shotgun" tow rope on the big climbs and we both go up at equal speed with equal effort. I get a better workout that way. It helps that he is not to heavy though.
Would love to see the etiquette
Visited Bellingham from BC last week, and holy crap did we ever see a lot of eMTBs climbing Galbraith. Dozens over the course of a couple hours went by us. I think I've only ever seen 4 or 5 on a weekend day up at mt Fromme.
It's like 80% of the bikes in socal. At least it seems like it. I love it though.
Climbing the fire roads at Galbraith has certainly changed. It's opened up the sport/area to a whole new segment of people. Some are pretty cool and some are...different.
Visiting Bellingham from Australia and using a Transition Relay from Outpost we found everyone regardless of bike super friendly and helpful. Seems like an awesome riding community.
@8:36 "When you're on a bike, it's not just you you're suddenly representative of all mountain bikers everywhere." I actually fired a guy from work: when hiking, the employee was bombing down being an ass verbally and spatially. You also represent more than just mountain bikers, but yourself, your friends and co-workers.
Yeah it's a part of real life, realizing that actions have consequences.
I dont ride often my emtb a rocky altitude but if i do i only take the fire road or im taking it only to places that just suck to climb .
#1 is just be stoked with friendliness to all other trail users.
You hit the nail on the head mate.
When I’m out on the trails I represent mountain biking in general. Common courtesy goes a long way.
Even some ignorant/rude other users that deep down we’d like to say F-off to you’ve just gotta be polite to.
Remember Losing trails is shit people
lol i just realised I do that braking drill when I bed in new pads. I do about a dozen of those and im good to go
If you're passing an E-bike on your non-motorized bike uphill, should you mention the technology (or lack of)?
Most, if not All, of this is just Mountain Bike etiquette. What is E-bike specific here? The Only E-bike specific etiquette thing I can think of is "Stay off non Eeb trails", which duh goes without saying (much like climbing a downhill only trail...on Any bike).
- climbing up downhill trails (whether specifically marked or commonly downhill only) is easier on emtb so there's greater temptation.
- be extra courteous when wanting to pass other climbers of any kind
- if these were "duh common courtesy" then we wouldn't have to keep saying it to every new batch of riders
@@kkattrap @kkattrap Climbing a downhill only trail is no more a temptation to an Eeb rider than a very physical fit non-Eeb rider. I know many think Eebs are evil but bike cannot posses a rider.
Give me a good reason an Eeb rider should be more courteous when wanting to pass than any other rider. Being passed by a rider is being passed by a rider. It's like saying if you're on a yellow bike you should be MORE courteous when passing. Or if you're a more fit rider passing a less fit rider you should be MORE courteous when passing.
And yes, we have to keep saying all the etiquette rules to all the new riders...not just E-bike riders. Again, a bike cannot dictate your ability to learn. It is an inanimate object. Even electric ones!
Emtbs don’t need to be more courteous. An issue I’ve come across is less experienced riders are not typically the one’s passing everyone on a normal bike. People who have been riding for a while and have the fitness to do it also know not to ride up down trails. While it’s not all emtbers, a lot of the guys/ladies on e-bikes in my area are less experienced riders and may not know some of the etiquette. When I’m descending a clearly downhill trail, and see e-bikes mobbing up it, it seems to be people newer to the sport or local scene.
@@collinandrus6584 Exactly.
Completely agree with everything as the e-mtbiker. I do those things by default. But sometimes I am in temptation to grab can of beer and pass few bio bikers while sipping it 😄
Jeff you never mentioned having a Bell. I use mine alot, and speak up politely. Sometimes established eye contact with hikers and they refuse to move. Alot have ear buds and they love to disassociate themselves with any outside contact.
Video 2 on this subject. should take a "Next Step Approach" when the polite way doesnt work.. Would love to hear your recomendations. thanks!
Wait for a lower effort spot to request to pass someone on a hard climb, hang back while they’re pushing hard. Even if you say “when you have a moment” some might be too polite and get out of your way immediately, thus making their climb a lot harder (sometimes even having to walk the bike). Light hearted self deprecation goes a long way too. “Sorry I’m cheating on an e-bike, do you mind if I pass?”
Can you review dartmoor rocbird enduro thanks
The one issue I have (on MTB trails, but hikers allowed) is a) people walking not having their dog on a leash and poor recall, or b) people walking with bike traffic, even though signs are constantly posted saying to walk the other direction. I'd like to let them know, without "being a dick" so we can both be aware of one another. I can't yield the right of way to them, if they're going the wrong way...
lol how’d you find the music from my work place safety video that was made in 1993?
Love it- funny!
Sooo awesome
I dont ride up "downhill only" labelled trails. But, I will haul my hardtail up steep trails that I dont think are even mountainbike trails on my random journeys, The trail network I ride is in a "red zone" meaning its department of defence territory but theres a bunch of trails with names in it that arent listed on trailforks, I've been told so long I dont cross a chainlink fence I'm safe still, so I know where I can and can't go. I've found lots of defunct out of commission trails that might have been motorcycle trails, as the ruts and tire marks I saw are often way wider than MTB tires, and the chunk is basically not doable to go up with any MTB at any skill level, its hike a bike to to the top and then only some of the decending makes sense, some of it is rock climbing down. I have a smooth brain though, so if I'm going in a direction I just go, it'll probably get me lost, stuck or unalived someday, but I have fun. I dont MTB for speed or times or race, I'm all about exploring and finding new plateaus for sweet views and jibbing stuff along the way, much like growing up as a street bmxer where the journey was just as much fun as the destination.
This is a great video, and a follow up to it with etiquette for all MTB users would be a great idea. I find when i'm close to regular trails theres always people wanting to blaze past me, and often they only say "on your right" as they are already passing you, often not on my right either, its just become a trendy phrase to say, similar to ones that say "dropping" every time they roll down something. It would be nice if more people had bells, or at least wore bearbells like I do, that way people are aware someone else is on the trail before they turn there head and are met with a blur of the other person blazing past them because they are training for some competition or something instead of just enjoying nature. Bumblers gunna bumble, at least let us know your coming up behind to pass, before you nearly hit us on narrow single track.
I visit Galbraith just about every 2 years. I bought my 1st ebike last year. So, this coming July I’m heading out to Bellingham. The question I do have, are E-bikes allowed at Galbraith, Brown Pow and Chuckanut trails?
A+ to so much of this, but especially not tagging locations and riding the access road vs. climb trail. E bikes are at tiger all the time and choose to ride the up trail. I dont care at all that e mtbs are at tiger (they are technically not allowed), but if you are gonna bring an e mtb there you should be on the access road for climbs.
I have ridden up the climb trails on occasion, but it's generally on rainy weekday mornings when no one is around. The access roads make a lot more sense.
Timber! bell
At our local bike park I would say it's now over 90% e-bikes. It is a longer drive for most to get out here (for what is local as I live 12 minutes from it), so people tend to bring their e-bikes to squeeze more laps into a weekend.
The bad part of it is that they neglect the actual climb trail, in the rainy season it gets borderline impossible to ride parts on a normal bike. That sucks big-time, because the shuttle road (where there is no pay shuttle) is so steep it's only suitable for e-bikes. Well, I have and ride both, but I completely understand that less and less people come here on normal bikes.
PS: LMNT eliminated a bunch of flavours :( ... then they put my address on some sh!t-list and cannot ship there. :( anymore (no, nothing bounced, nothing un-paid, they just suddenly cannot ship there)
Sorry to hear about how wrecked the climb trail gets in the wet. Usually the best fix is to add the concrete pavers to it- a big project, and can often be worse than mud. Hope you can sort that!
Man, how do you not wash out the front on every corner with such a permanent rearward weight bias?
Can we make this required watching for emtb purchasers? Thanks Jeff!
Don't be an a-hole, greet people, slow down when passing. Uphill traffic has right of way. Pedestrians always have right of way.
What about one of the biggest etiquette issue - should e-bikers record Strava segments?
EMTB trail etiquette is easy with this mindset:
"It is a privilege to ride here, amongst mtb and other trail users, not a right."
Mind you, I ride, exclusively, full power EMTB's. Im a "dawn patrol" rider on the weekend, and week days, evening into night. Out of sight, out of mind type.
I want an Ebike for DH training as I live in Santa Cruze do you think a Ebike will help with training
Ok
I think the golden rule pretty much covers it.
One would think 😂
#1 pedal assisted mountain bike rule, don't use acoustic, analog or any other name when describing a mountain bike.
Jeff is trolling us a bit, me thinks;)
To be honest, there isn't really a better name for them. When I can, I say the brand and model, but when I'm talking in general, there isn't really a better word than acoustic.
Plus, there is nothing wrong with acoustic as a word, just like guitars acoustic isn't bad, just different
A mountain bike is a mountain bike an e bike bike is an e bike whether is a road , MTB otherwise i don't think you need to preface a traditional MTB road or otherwise with a type unless it an bike.
Lol, I prefer Poverty Bikes.
@@onlysendsmtb By this logic, ebikes are poverty bikes compared to full-power motos or e-motos.
Can you make 5:18 a short, so I can send it to a few "friends".
How about a group of e-bikers announcing their descent and your the analog climber. Are they announcing their right- of- way?
Idea for another video: “Things people say to e-bikers as they are going past”.
I’ve never owned an e-bike but my suspicion for why e bike riders are less likely to say something is because of how many repetitive antagonistic comments they get.
GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!
hahaha i love this video
Climbing. Not even close for trail speed. First time I ran into an ebike it was on a trail they were banned for 1. I’m not the fastest climber but I was in my own world on a long mellow climb and an eMTB came up on me out of no where and startled the shit out of me. Normally I’d hear someone catching up to me and would see them around a turn catching up. This was one of my most ridden local trails. They were just all the sudden on my ass shouting asking to pass and we’re easily climbing 3 time faster than me.
Hence why I made this video explaining how to pass folks... And keep in mind, what you just experienced is what every hiker experiences when a biker approaches them from behind.
If you ride the first Gen Kenevo SL you don't have to say anything. They will hear you coming from a while away.
I ride with a bluetoth speaker playing "get out the way, get out the way ***** get out the way"
Ha ha ha! I just leave it playing on repeat from my phone everywhere!
People riding with Bluetooth speakers deserve their own special video. 😉
😂😂😂
I don't reqlly I just thought playing that song whilst on an ebike would be funny as hell.@@allenyip5577
I feel like most people that watch this video are already following these commonsense rules :)) The problem is most people that don´t have commonsense will either not watch this or won´t give a F about it :P
LOL of course!
MTB riders who are upset at Emtb are finally getting a taste of what it’s like to be an equestrian or hiker. Just chill and be respectful, it’s not a racecourse. I hike, bike, and ebike. Be considerate so the trails can stay open to all. Or if you’re old like me, don’t give people like Mike Vanderham more reason to complain. Lol
so there are not real tracks around here- which means the most common type of encounter is a dog owner. And with them you have a 50% chance of giving them a heart attack when you use your bell making them jump 2m vertically... and a 50% chance of getting jelled at because you didn't use your bell.
I think it would be good e-bike etiquette if they offered us analogue riders a tow. 😬
EMTB riders must always give way to MTB.
and maybe...
Must always request permission to overtake on single-track.
No and no
@@jmclivaudais3291 care to elaborate? Or are you one of them?
Lordship on horse right of way needs to fucking go, The person riding the dangerous thing should be the one stopping. Not inconveniencing other users. In Australia, they shout this rule at you (in a British accent) while their horse is visibly dumping giant landmines that by the same rules, they HAVE To cleanup. Hands up, whos EVER seen a horse lord, cleaning up their horse shit. I haven't, but I have found tonnes of horse shit stuck to my downtube after a ride.
DO what I do, Next time a horse lord demands you halt, Say, OK, if you get off your horse, go back and check for every shitpile it dropped and clean it. Otherwise you fucking halt I'm coming through.
YES! F horses and especially F the horse people assholes on them.
Never met a bitter or angry E-biker, thinking of getting one.
I prefer the Term Amish bike !
Now I know your mentality calling the "analogue" bikes "peasant" bikes.
It's a joke. The eMTBs are still ridiculously expensive. I ride primarily peasant bikes in real life.
@@JeffKendallWeed It made me snort.
Just ride it lmao
Best way to ride an ebike is with a dress, unless you have some physical handicap where it's kinda necessary
2.30min of the video is just fluff
One of my biggest annoyances not covered in this video is how ebikers are less likely to ask if its okay to drop in before you at the top of a downhill when you were already waiting there first. I get they don't need to stop and rest but I find it so annoying when I've just waited long enough to build a buffer to riders that may have previously dropped in to have an ebiker roll up and just drop in without a word. I wouldn't even expect them to wait, but if they asked I'd either be cool with them going or drop in myself in front of them.
This all sounds good……but in reality, doesn’t happen
I love (hate actually) how gate keepy the current MTB "community" can be, not realizing that they too were gate kept from trails at one time. All the same arguments were used to try to keep Any mountain bike off the trails. Hikers and the Equestrian crowd were just as affronted back then by MTBs as MTBs are now about Eebs. Oh to be young and so uninformed again.
If MTBers (non Eebers) had any idea, they'd be the 1st to lobby for opening all trails to E-bikes. Everybody eventually forgets where they come from.
@mmodtomic7119 I think MTB riders do lobby for ebike access. The problem is old school mtb riders had to fight hard and push for access to trails, but ebike riders are demanding access now and assume the rules will change at some point. Lobby for access, don't poach it because you feel entitled to do so.
And now they're gatekeeping against Surron riders too!! And then it'll be quads after that!
using the 'acoustic' bike term is such annoying! where does it come from ?! if you have to use 'analog' but 'acoustic'? wt.
acoustic and electric guitars
How to ride an e-bike……..go to the gym 🐋
...actually, now with my ebike I can ride all day AND still go to the gym
Don’t pull over.
Please don't call it an acoustic bike 🤣
Horses should not have the right of way, and if the rider isn’t in control of their animal they shouldn’t be out on public trails where they are a hazard to other people. Also equestrians should pick up their animal’s poop.