Surron vs Talaria Sting .....is the Talaria REALLY better??
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- This video discusses the differences between the Surron and the Talaria. You will see things in this review that have not been covered yet on CZcams regarding the Talaria Sting.
Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
1:06 - Tires, wheels, swing arm
2:24 - Ergonomics, seat height, dimensions
9:29 - Turning radius
11:13 - Suspension linkage issues
13:50 - Gearbox
16:55 - Battery differences
22:09 - Speed and power differences
23:29 - Aerial drag race
24:16 - Regen breaking/coasting
27:30 - Regent coasting amp clamp
28:00 - Differences in weight
Reach us at:
VoltageAdventure1@gmail.com - Věda a technologie
I just found the perfect video for me to play when I can’t fall asleep at night.
This was the most informative comparison that I have seen. Thanks for doing this.
We really appreciate that. Apologies for the substandard video....new to this CZcams video editing stuff. Thanks so much watching.
You answered a lot of questions that I was looking for. I really appreciate the three of you and this video. 🏁
I'm glad it helped! We appreciate you commenting.
Absolutely excellent comparison, thanks!
One critical piece of advice it to make sure you adjust the audio leveling between clips. I had to go from absolutely maxing my speakers (which can at any moment cause literal ear damage from other sound sources) to quickly turning them back down to less than one third of max. Even when maxed out the audio was a whisper at one point. Most editors should have an auto leveling feature to try and make sure most of the video is roughly the same volume. Other than that, super great information and pacing. I love the attention to detail that you've provided in this.
Yes thank you so much for the critique. New to this CZcams editing stuff but are lifelong gear heads. Really appreciate the feedback.
Wow killer video! Y’all had so much info I’m super happy I found this one
I've seen a half dozen other videos on the bike, all of them combined didn't have 20% of the information shared here, Voltage Adventures brought up points I woudn't have even known or thought to ask, example being the surface areas of the battery prongs and the pro/cons to that,
@@EssPhour I thought that was cool too! So much work put into this one 👌
this was the exact kind of extremely thorough walkthrough i was looking for, thank you.
You are so welcome. Thank you for leaving a comment.
Great video!! Big power upgrade kit for Talaria is now available from us.
Thanks for the overview! I've watched a half dozen other reviews of the bike, and they all say the same things, I assume they are all reading off a manufacture supplied bullet point marketing leaflet, "Hey we got a wider fork and swingarm for wider tires, the single battery plugin is awesome, its a bigger bike, and its got a gear drive.....You've given the best review by a long shot, you got my sub.
(edited, I see this was answered elsewhere).... Also, I did see mention elsewhere the mapping on the throttle response was just as you described, real punchy but then it goes super-flat, personally speaking for myself, this is probably my biggest concern, I have the resources to address most of the hardware issues you shared, but when things are off with software that's not anywhere near my wheelhouse, you have a feel or opinion on how responsive Talaria will be in getting out updates for something like this?
The last thing, do you have an opinion on the Talaria's rear swing arm linkage? not the arm itself, and not the poor tolerance in need of a larger bolt or bushing sleeve, but that linkage arm, I'm not sure how I feel about the geometry and the linkage arm between the shock and swingarm, maybe it's just the limited angles I am seeing from the video, but it looks like there could be some unnecessary(questionable) load points there where that linkage will be taking some abuse that the suspension should be dealing with.
Amazing details! Thanks!
13:34 sur ron has this issue where the shock is mounted, I had even more play, one of the two mounting holes where missing a bushing...
The blade type plugs are fine. I believe you'd want to consider surface area of the contactors
... is the Talaria REALLY better? YES
slower, worse handling, way heavier, no more leg room than the sur ron, not upgradable, requires oil for the gearbox (lmao).. i could go on
@@KD-wy2cc your legs must be toothpicks if 25 more lbs is considered "way" heavier
@@rapscallion3421 Baseless ad hominems wont change the fact that the Talaria is an inferior machine. Heavier, uses oil (lmfao), no mods, list goes on and on and on brother
@@KD-wy2cc well any real E dirt bike is going to use a oil🤣. A guy claiming to own both but has zero content of anything... yeah your opinions are about as useless as a fart in the wind. Many parts are in the works. I'm getting the impression you are wishing you had a talaria cause it's all around a better bike but are stuck with the little outdated version aka Sur Ron x.
@@rapscallion3421 You haven't made any arguments as to why it is better, and real E-Bikes don't use oil. It's a bad design and you shouldn't have to do an oil change on an E-bike. You literally have one subscriber and I think it's your mom. Eat my grundle
Patiently waiting for the new vid about the updated/upgraded Talaria you have eluded to in other comments.
I’m on the fence and am at the point to where I finally am able to pull the trigger on either, just can’t decide. (I’m coming from riding/racing 250s and 450s all my life and while I know neither will replace that feeling, I’m just wanting the best option possible between these 2. I’ve ridden a sur ron with battery bypassed and emoto Bros controller upgrade (If I could get even close to this kind of power out of the Talaria with the same mods, I’m leaning this direction mainly due to the Talaria size difference)
GLE has a controller out. I got my Talaria last week and there is no play in the rear shock mount bushing. I chose the Talaria because of availability vs the Surron in my country and because I wanted a quieter bike. I am happy with it but it is not silent. I think it’s the gearbox or the chain but you can for sure hear it coming down the street or on the trails especially at higher speeds. The best description I can come up with is back in the day you heard a bicycle that someone put a card in the spokes and it click click clicks really fast going down the road. Not loud but noticeable. As far as size I don’t know how big a Surron is but I’m short and the Talaria still feels good to me so it’s not as big as I thought it would be. Also concerning the turning radius, I never found myself thinking I wish I had a better turning radius but I don’t ride technical mountain bike trails either. Last but not least I have the dnm front forks. To me a novice rider they feel great. There is for very light knocking sound from the front end over bumpy terrain. It’s very faint but on my bike it’s there. Not sure exactly the source.
Looking at generalities this was a great video. The platform availabilities byway of mods is currently the major difference for me. Much like the battle between Microsoft and Apple came down to the number of applications available to the two different platforms. Each player (Talaria vs Surron) needs to decide what it wants to specialize in...right now it appears that the players are competing against each other which is often the case when designeers (and engineers) originate from the same company. I'd prefer them pick a specialty.
Thank you for this!
It's possible that I was distracted at the time, but I don't remember hearing you mention anything about ride quality regarding suspension and the general feel of each bike. Could you possibly provide a little feedback on that? Thank you... And great video.
The Tilaria has a much better suspension and more travel over the Surron.
@@guicohj Thanks for the response, but are you basing this off personal experience, or did they say this in the video, and/or did you just see/hear someone else say this? Thanks
Just makes me feel better about owning a surron x hell yeah baby
Very good, deffinatly a tough call between the two, I'm on the fence still.
That turning radius is kind of a big deal though, I can probably forgive the rest.
I'd love to hear more on these two compared.
Yes the turning radius was the first thing we noticed when we got on it. But that was a little less concerning than some of the other things. And to add more confusion, the second telaria we tested resolved some issues but brought on other concerns (video coming).
@@voltageadventure9071 Was just about to pull the trigger, but I will wait for this next video. Very informative, and much appreciated!
@@voltageadventure9071 you still posting the other video, I'm curious what was improved, & also what was worse, I don't like that kind of inconsistency spending this money!
Check out a Kuberg if you're not familiar with them, they're a really cool looking e-Bike/e-Moto
@@voltageadventure9071 Video coming still?
The Surron has a far better range than the Tilaria, which makes a huge difference.
Very Informative video thank you def going to sub
I think I'm going to wait and save more, hoping they will fix the issues with the sting that are cheap and easier to do while still saving for more modifications for it.
Shiite ONE YEAR AGO!! MX3! vs. Sur-Ron. We need the MX4 vs todays Sur-Ron excellent content subbed and liked and well commented too! Light upgrade for MX4, please. or noticed the rear Sur-Ron shock mud flap, no Talaria flap?
Any TECH info is good info. In Comments so many want to be owners are spectators. I did the same until Talaria MX4 arrived.
Now the li'l biotch brother arrives 3X for 3k. Now Sur-Rons move. Hope they step it up cuz the MX5 may have the 72 V batt. stock?!?!? Next Summer. hahaha get off the fence and ride. Buy used, buy last years, build BUT Ride!
Good info. What size are the talarias spoke lugs?
hello to you I have a question what is the model of your rear wheel guard ?
To me it looks Like a mudhugger
Just ordered a Talaria. Cant wait to get it
good choice - these guys a biased
Just got mine. Had a surron before.
@@45KevinG45 how is it?
@@David_162_ its good! I think i like it more than the surron. It feels quite a bit bigger and heavier, worse turn radius. But overall seems better built, more solid, power is great, shocks are better, overall i prefer it. It is bigger tho. For me being 5’9 190lbs i feel the size difference but its still easy to get both feet flat on the ground.
@@45KevinG45 Did you get the talaria in the U.S.? if so, where did you order it?
Good data. Still thinking Surron because they are more established.
Hey do you think I could fit the Talaria Sting's rear tail fender on a Sur ron? or would it require modification? Thank you :)
Yes they are designed different. You would have to modify. Not sure how much. Thanks for the comment.
@@voltageadventure9071 np man, I appreciate the help
I was wondering about the rear fender.. Please give some info on them. Super interested
So do I !
Mudhugger
You mention you could make the rear shock smaller to lower the seat, would this affect the bike in anyway? make it worse? is having longer shocks better compared to shorter ones?
Yes it would affect the bike. Depending on how much shorter of a shock you put on it would determine your decreased travel and clearance. And it's hard to tell without experimenting but it's likely that a half inch shorter shock could lower the bike by as much as 2in and decrease the travel by the same.
@@landonhilton8845 When you say 'travel' what are you referring to?
@@ChocSloth the front fork has about 8in of travel... that's how much the shock can move.
It's the full distance the rear wheel can travel up (completely offloaded) and down (completely compressed).
Good point about peg to seat height, I thought the frame was just strictly bigger on the talaria, really wanted the talaria but I like the surron size a lot more, maybe I'll just swap the shock after then, ty!
So it's pretty much clear that a great change on the Talaria would be the controller because of the powercurve, or am I wrong there?
That's what I was thinking, either an aftermarket throttle or a tweak to their controller should fix that.
Makes sense, SurRon had the same issues early on before they really got it dialed in I think with the new X controller.
@@PhiTonics if a bac4000 would work just as good as on the surron (don't know if there's a problem with the gearbox) then it should be fine
@@Boingftw so far there’s not a good controller for the Talaria… I saw one with a bac8000 but he may have completely taken the motor apart the adjust the sensors. He didn’t give any information at all, just a super quick video with no talk about the way it changes the ride and no riding footage either. Edit* almost seems lik click bait
Where’d you get that rear fender?
Really happy with your video I’m really struggling to figure out which I want Im wanting to upgrade a lot on the bike I think the surron has more options for upgrades? Im 5’6 150 pounds Im really wanting to like the talaria but idkkkk😭
You're the exact same size as me. I prefer the Surron hands down because of quality control and geometry comfort when riding. However, we haven't been on any of the more recent batches of Talaria. Quality control may have been improved since then. 🤷 Glad you liked the video and thanks for the comment. Really appreciate it.
That rear linkage bolt is not correct for the bike.
The shank of the bolt only goes half to 3/4 of the way through the swingarm/linkage.
The shank should be full length, less a couple of threads into the outer swingarm mount casting.
Still there is slop in the bolt shank to inner bearing/bush clearance.
how did u get the talaria in the U.S.?
may have already been said, but at 13.28 standard bolt shafts are not precision diameter and often undersized, may be worth replacing the bolt with a precision diameter shoulder bolt
Very good video
great channel, the only reason I dont buy a Suron..etc.
Cant lift it over fences 😛
Seeing you guys standing next to bikes, did you mention how tall you are. Trying to get an idea of its size im 5' 8". 160 lbs.
In blue 5'6" 145lbs, Bennie about 5'8" 180lbs. Hope that helps!
I was ready to buy a Surron but with all this info , definitely I will consider the telaria
what were the factors for you? Curious because I just bought two surrons and I am still feeling pretty good about it after this video...although I am waiting on shipping and it feels like forever
13:30 why does the swing arm looks like it has a sharp edge and laser cutting marks on it ?
Because it does. Fit and finish isn't like a Surron, but I will say that the second one we test was better specifically in that regard but worse in other aspects (video coming). Be patient they're new. Quality control/fit& finish will come with time. Thanks for you comment.
Gooooood job! Thx
So with one would you recommend?
Also, set playback to 1.25
I appreciate the effort of the video, but I cant help feel this was a bias attempt to shine a light back on the Surron after many others have praised the Talaria so much. There are obviously good and bad points for both, but the obvious negativity and the almost forced acceptance of Talaria "pros" was disappointing. Especially for a new bike vs one that has been on the market for a few years. Not so much of a review, more of a bashing.
Totally agree. For example the battery plug. Talaria is obviously much better. But they try to say well I don’t really know why but I don’t think it’s better.
How can we buy that fender?
Wow that suspension issue... I mean I could make a brass bushing but still...
The Bob Ross' of bike reviewers
I have what I think is a very important question when regarding electric vehicles, and that is efficiency. Timing belts are not very lossy, but churning (gear?) oil in a gearbox can be.
I would like to see a GPS verified comparison of range, riding side by side around town until both bikes hit limp home and shut off. Does the Sting even have a limp home, does it also trigger at 10%? Questions lead to questions I'm afraid. I feel that the additional battery capacity will not even make up for the potential loss in the gearbox. I would like to see it in the real world though!
There's a group ride woth about 23 surrons and 5 talaria. At the end of the ride every talaria had about ten percent more battery left than the surrons.
@@MotoAlias Awesome thanks, maybe the gearbox isn't that much of an energy hog. Good news!
@@KenjiFox the primary belts on surrons are an issue they can be switched to a primary chain but why bother... a closed gearbox is perfect. Just change the oil every so often no big deal. On the surron you need special tools to even work on the jackshaft. Talaria none of that extra work is necessary.
Yes, contrary to what you might think it's looking like the gearbox could be more efficient then the belt drive in this case. But there are other factors to consider when comparing efficiency, like the fact that they have different motors and controllers that would offset or further contribute to better efficiency. With the amp clamp the tilaria showed slightly less draw from the battery than the Surron. But you see, naturally the Surron should pull more power (if at least in our test) it is faster. having more power. I absolutely love the idea of a gearbox as long as it will hold up and be reliable. Just because it's a gearbox doesn't automatically make it reliable. The gears or the bearings could go bad, seals leaking oil...etc. I'm really hoping that it holds up but only time will tell and there hasn't been any time on Talarias yet, especially during the hot season and that can reveal alot. I have seen one CZcams video of a guy complaining that the gearbox is already getting louder. I'm assuming and hoping that's a one-off.
Also, echoing what Alias said above.....the tillaria is showing more range by no small margin. Again, that could be the result of many contributing factors.... battery capacity, more efficient motor, gearbox, it being less powerful, more powerful regen....yada yada yada.
The Sur Ron is a
Segway x260
And what's with all the adds on FB selling Segway x260 for under 100$ .
is that the MX3?
26:16 my onyx gets 68 amps of regen power lol. the regen on the onyx is crazy.
12:42 go in the bolts box in garage n fit a fatter one or sleeve from the surron parts its L55 m8 half thread,
I’d brass shim that linkage asap that will ruin the bearing in real short order
To me the biggest thing is upgrading. I know from having two sur rons that most will upgrade. The battery/controller are the most important/desirable upgrades and you just can't do this very easy with the Talaria.
Give it 3 months. That's going to change
Yeah a stock Talaria battery is $1,300.00 and the gearbox is $300. I
Think the Sur Ron is still a better bike overall.
oh, what a high steering wheel, like mine 😎
how long is the talaria
We actually don't have a Talaria in our possession anymore. However someone on a chat group could definitely measure one for you. I would suggest you specify your question a little further like wheel base or overall length. Thanks for the question, sorry we couldn't help.
That rear suspension slop issue is a deal breaker for me for sure. Like you said a huge miss !
Cause you cant bush it?
@@just_one_opinion Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Going to a larger bolt actually might work too. You can't go from 10 to 12mm, but possibly a smaller step using the imperial system going to 7/16". I own a lathe too, so it'll be a quick fix for me.
either a bolt or bush revision will fix it, no big deal at all
I’m sure they’ll come out with an upgraded bushing along with all the other upgrades that will be coming.. one layer of duct tape around the bolt or inside of the bushing might even be a temporary solution
Just got mine.looks like they used a bigger bolt.no slop in the linkage
yes plz level the audio, also you should try not to directly compare or make definitive statements on the fact front shocks are not as good, you should please save that until you actually get the bike into the hills, different riders and many other factors before making a statement that one bikes suspension isn't as good without ever even actually testing them for real... that was just a brand name or a quick look at how it physically looks and making a huge statement without ever riding it or showing clips of how the suspension is better on one or the other, should really never be done..
main thing tho volume leveling, and just ride the bike before u say battery life is better on one or the other, also ride before you say something about ones suspension being better..
otherwise friiggin awesome review vid ill check in on others I am sure.. thanks
thanks!
This video really needs to specify the exact models tested. Maybe it was obvious when the video was new...?
Wake me up when it’s over lol
No disrespect, yet you were talking so slowly I felt like getting out my lawn chair and my fishing rod casting out into the lake pulling my hat down taking a little nap until I heard the little bell on my fishing pole go jingle Lingle ling😂
Just for parts availability I would think the sur ron would be the smart choice.
Talaria parts are in the works.
Good point. Give it a year though and Talaria will have all the same for the most part.
You can’t get any aftermarket stuff for the Sur Ron as it’s always out of stock… when the aftermarket stuff comes out for the new bike maybe you’ll be able to actually get it…. That on the fly regen has sold me
@@MPulicci78 The first talaria we tested had very powerful regen. The second (current) one however is ridiculous. Super weak, weaker than the surround by a long ways at speeds in excess of 5 mph.
I went straight to speed and power.
As a taller ish person the height difference was enough for me to pull the trigger on the talaria
Also the bigger battery, also it was about $1000 dollars cheaper, feels like you are just paying for the name brand for the Sur Ron .
But the problem is that there is no difference in the distance between pegs and seat. Even worse is the smaller difference from seat to handlebar on the Talaria.
First off thanks for your comments. If you knew me at all I'm definitely not a name-brander. In fact I'm very excited that Surron has some competition finally! IMO Surron had too long of a run. The gearbox upgrade alone makes the Talaria worth it, not to mention back tire/wheel/swingarm, bigger battery, display (on-the-fly stronger regen), and better seat. The intention of the video was just to inform people of rather important information that we haven't seen brought up yet. I'm completely with you on that decision.... especially if you got it for $1k less. Unfortunately that's certainly not the case anymore, or at least not around here, Talaria is often $200 more than the Surron....which is still worth it in many regards. Cheers
@@Jitkoa1 I've never been on a surron or even seen one but I own a talaria and it's tall for me. I'm 5'10 and the bikes tall enough I can't walk a wheelie like people can on a surron with 17in supermotos. Def a taller bike. The handlebars were very low when I bought it riser bars and your all good.
@@MotoAlias Ok I'm 6'2. Let's see!
such a hard decision, I can't make up my mind 😩
Seriously
Same
OK I have now , talaria 😂👌
@@0121bassline how is the talaria compared to the surron speed, feel etc?
I'm sure there is a lot of good info here, but nearly all of it is missed because of poor audio.
*Of course the SurRon is quicker off the line being lighter and have a higher tooth sprocket?!*
Talaria might be better all round in what I’ve seen on a lot of vids “but it looks bulky and ugly + heavy” compared to my awesome little surron as I’m only 5’7 and 160lbs😉lol.. Only thing i think they could do with the surron is to make it better to fit a bigger back wheel+tire when stock🤷♂️ just my opinion but I’m well happy with my stock surron and upgrading forks + Bac4000 or nucular with 60v 50ah battery very soon🔥🔥🔥❤️👌🏴🤙🤙🤙🤙
How long did it take for you to get it?
This is the old model Sting, the new 2023 Sting MXr is better and faster than the LBX and has a 60v battery.
I still prefer a surron the ride is way more comfortable talarias feel weird lol
thats because the talaria is a knock off sur ron. it is too heavy and is an unfinished product.
I really do not like the Gear Oil ? If you bash that motor, your looking at leaks or worse ?? IDK ?? The Sur On is tried and tested while the talaria is still to be determined !
sur ron it is much more reworked today unlike this wonder.
So in conclusion the talaria wins. It I clearly a better bike
Couple Sur Ron fan boys lol
yep totally biased
Just called it surron 2.0 lol 😂
clearly the talaria is better but these guys seem to be biased towards the surron
Nah not really. I own both. They have their pros and cons.
i owned both. sold my talaria
@@KD-wy2cc why?
Here’s the real question get one of these or save up for a storm bee.
Personally I think it depends on the buyer, if you want something right out the box that's going to work well and give you little to no issues, and you aren't really interested in tinkering with the bike much if at all, I would go with the Storm Bee. Out of the box the Sting doesn't offer a whole lot more, the gearbox is kind of a big deal for performace potential, upgrades, and customization that you can't get with the Surons' the other thing is the wider swing arm on the Sting will allow for wider tires, really the reason's to buy the Sting is it will have more upside potential for performance if you want to modify the bike, also accept the fact that as a first adopter you will run into issues that could garage the bike for week or two while you get it sorted out.
I have the Storm Bee (in the UK) but its large and so I'm looking to get a Surron or Talaria too so I can ride in local parks which don't like MX bikes. Surron or Talaria would pass for a mountain bike and so wouldn't have any issues in local parks - but Storm Bee would draw complaints due to the size
@@speedbird737 Talaria looks more like a dirtbike to me In size… but the Talaria frame doesn’t look as cool and aggressive as the SurRon. The seat looks way better on the Talaria though… I wish we could swap features from the Talaria into the surron… or the other way around… they just need to get together and make a bad bike baby. Talaria and Sur Ron sitting in a tree B O I nk I N G
Any electric bike without liquid cooling are junk
The talaria is ugly im js
The Talaria is the better machine. Period. No disrespect to the Sur Ron, it's why the Talaria is what it is today and it is the platform from which the Talaria started but the Talaria out shines the Sur Ron in so many ways.
You need a dead cat on your mic. The wind noise is horrible, and not enough inflection in voice.
Racing towards that little kid is pretty stupid
talaria It's a scumbag and it still looks bad in terms of design there will still be 1,000,000 problems I'd rather not buy it in 3 years if I didn't withdraw it from the market at all. The same components as on sur ron The very lousy processing of the flashlight cover has a large clearance also shows large transmission errors cracks. It's a failure and even so it looks bad looking clumsy no performance just inflated it
ummm.....ummm..ummmmm.....ummmmmmm.. I had to stop watching
I'll work on that. Thanks for you comment.
They both suck.... no regen and you waste half your battery power spinning the tires for no effect... sure rooster tails look cool but it's a waste of energy... now a 2 wheel drive with hub motors like I build... will roxors your boxors....
You cant ride hub motors off road and off jumps
You trash the surron, then go on to promote your own hub builds… dude are you high. Hub motors are so fkn shit for off-road
Better do some research fella.. both bikes have regen and as stated above hub motors are not recommended for any serious offroading. As far as spinning the rear tire...its called throttle control.
Surron all the way. One should be significantly less expensive. I'm just happy that there are so many awesome new dirt e bikes. Can't wait until fusion batteries hit the market. Lol.
I thought the Talaria was the new advanced and problems fixed version of the surron though? why buy the old model when the new is here?
Great job on the video, solid good info compared to some of these youngsters review . Holy smokes , some of these kids reviews are horrible & out of touch with specs & clueless. I subscribed.
There is a lot of information out there that is not very worthwhile. Thanks so much for your comments and subscription. It helps us out a lot.