All Worship Music Sounds The Same | Real Talk #4
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- Äas pĹidĂĄn 6. 12. 2023
- đ Link to the transcript/blog post: guitarforhisglory.com/all-wor...
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"...speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ!- assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."
Ephesians 4:15-32
Thank you sir. I have been subscribed to your channel for a long time. I know I haven't commented much here but I'm the sort of person who says something when I feel lead to talk. I'm also a worship guitar player and have been doing so for about 17 years. I keep coming back to your channel not just as a resource but because I relate to your heart for God. I love listening to you explain what a song means to you and what the song is trying to say to us before you teach how to play it. This video is well said and quite frankly should be a resource for new worship team members across the board. Even some worship members that have been on a team for a while. This should be a video for some worship leaders for that matter. God bless you brother. Thank you for all you do.
Agreed
Great to hear from you, and thank you for your encouragement. Iâm happy to hear the channel has been helpful to you, brother. Also, Iâm Cajun, so it sounds like we have that in common. đ
@@GuitarforHISGlory Well how about that! We need to enjoy some good old cajun food together someday.
I think I fall somewhere in the middle here. I 100% agree that the only requirement is that that praise not be subject to showmanship. However, I find that if the technical aspects of a song are distasteful enough to me, it actively pulls my attention away from the things it should be on. So in my case well-written worship music is legitimately beneficial to me.
I just started learning worship songs . Spent most of my time as a guitar player playing heavy music in bands. But when I Got serious about God a lot of things started to change as well as my musical taste and how I even approach the guitar. I will say at this point in my life there is nothing more satisfying then knowing that your using your talents to serve our creator. I had started my channel awhile back which would have consisted of covers but I stopped because I noticed that while I was learning secular music to cover I would feel a heaviness come over me and it just didnât feel right. As apposed to worship music where I felt happy and hope-full . Easy or not doesnât matter to me what matters is serving the most high thank you Jesus for the changes. Great video bro thank your for speaking truth.
Thank you for sharing this. Much love, my brother. â¤
I'm a worship leader and the music does sound the same, which is not a bad thing, it does have to be easy for the congregation to sing, there are a lot of different styles that sound the some, Rock, country ect....
Thank you for the video!
Well....I found this very convicting. I'm one of those who has made just about all the complaints you mentioned. And I was a worship pastor for 31 years; I should have known better!
I cut my teeth on playing classic and progressive rock guitar. It's still just about my favorite genre. A few years ago I played with a certain very well known worship leader and composer. We discovered that we both had learned a lot of parts by prog guitar legend Steve Howe (of Yes), and we swapped Howe licks for about 5 minutes. I share this to underscore what you've said, Troy. This worship leader has the chops to play very difficult and complex music, but when he's writing and leading worship songs, he puts that to the side for the Greater Purpose.
Thanks for speaking the truth in love. I needed to hear it.
Excellent content brother!
All of it on point.
This is a great message. The Word says to ask God to search our hearts. All those responsible for worship should ask to have our heart examined. Also, there is great power in unity. 1 can put 1,000 to flight and 2 can put 10,000 to flight. It is much more powerful to play something that allows the congregation to fully participate than have a great "performance."
well that was awesome. very well spoken very clear
Thank you. Just thank you.
My opinion on this is that when you serve in the worship team you are there to serve God and the church, not yourself. Everything we do as musicians should stem from that. Why does simplicity have to somehow equal "bad" or "boring"? The interpretation of art is subjective most of the time anyways. Some people can't stand to listen to 10 minutes of jazz, does that mean jazz is bad? Of course not. It comes down to what purpose the art form is serving. And worship music serves the purpose of making music through the word of God, to lead his people into a moment where all the attention is on Him. And we should serve that, not distract from it.
Having said that, many use that as an excuse to never improve. And this is a very personal take, I know. Not everyone wants to become proficient in other types of music. But as a musician, listening, and playing worship music only, will limit you. But it all comes full circle either way, because the Lord's gathering is not where you should be aiming to improve yourself and impress others. But we should always aim to grow, to learn, to expand, and then bring that expertise to the Lord in a way that glorifies Him and help others grow as well.
What a great point!!
I only had to watch the first few minutes to love this. Thereâs times where the guitar parts are boring for me, or not that challenging, but the way I know my own heart is in check is if I get on the stage and donât even think about that, and if it doesnât affect my Sunday experience as far as my own worship, and my ability to lead worship from the stage. The moment I catch myself thinking âman I hate these partsâ on stage during a service, is when I know I need to get myself back in check
You earned my subscription in the first minute of this video. God bless you, Brother.
Thank you brother. Keep speaking the truth and honouring God! God bless!
It certainly is a tension because even in other cultures (Iâm thinking Latin American cultures or gospel genre) there is a lot of upbeat, fun high energy songs. For some people in some circles, that is âchurch musicâ and honest worship.
Where in other cultures, such as mainline non-denominational evangelical churches, music is a bit more reserved/restrained. And people in those circles might be tempted to think that is the only way to please God.
I guess itâs all about the posture of the heart, awareness of the cultural context.
I agree with this comment! I think it is 100% about the heart. God desires this who worship in spirit and truth, and musical genre is just the window dressing.
I think CCM is a genre, but I think worship is larger than any one genre, and really any genre can be used to worship the Lord. I would think that knowing your congregation would be a big factor into the style of music is chosen, but I think the heart of worshiping, not performing, is key.
@@JordanFillar yeah knowing the congregation and posturing your heart well !
Thatâs a good point. I have been privileged to worship with African musicians in their homeland, and the last thing you would describe that worship music as is "boring." What I heard takes a high level of skill (something that would take me years to master), but it also connected with the congregation, allowing them to worship freely. There is absolutely no question in my mind that they are truly worshiping through their God-given talents. As a friend of mine once said, God takes delight in seeing His children do what He created them to do.
Why do we settle for the same old 1-6-5-4 progressions in 6/8 time? Do we have such a low view of the average churchgoer's sophistication that we think they cannot be challenged with something other than lowest-common-denominator songwriting?
Very well said!!! â¤
Very well put Brother.
Yes yes yes yes man amen all Glory to him. So much wisdom bro thank you!
Man! Thank You for this
Hi Troy! I am a guitar player and MD for my churchâs worship band, and have been for several years. I appreciate a lot of the videos you have made over the years, very well done and easy to follow along.
I appreciate the talk in this video and for the most part I really agree with you on the difference between music for listening and music for congregational worship, especially when it comes to lyrics and general repetition. I am curious what your thoughts are on scriptures like Psalm 33:1-3 which encourages singing new songs to the Lord and playing skillfully on the strings, making melody etc. I have always taken this section to be an encouragement to play expressively to the Lord with your instrument as well as your voice, and I think it fits the context of congregational worship.
I do this in some of my videos more as a hobby than anything, but at church the same way I would encourage anyone to sing with their voice to the Lord, I use my guitar as a âvoiceâ to the Lord. The goal always being to play skillfully and expressively because the Lord deserves it, and also playing within the context of the song. Not wanting to distract, but still playing parts and styles that are uniquely mine, and not carbon copies of Hillsong or Elevation, etc.
The videos I post with worship music having guitar solos is more in the listening category for me, I donât typically do that on a Sunday service, but I do still think that expression is a good thing in congregational worship.
I know itâs a long message, but you always seem to take time to think through things as biblically as you can, and I would love to know what your thoughts are on this!
Well said brother
Hi Troy, thank you for your message. I have been questioning some of the worship song selections at my congregation. Your message touched on everything that I have been asking myself. I am grateful that God has so loving placed me where I need to be and with gifts to serve.
Thank you
Nice work. You put a lot of heart and sweat into this and it shows. Appreciate the sound Biblical basis for each point.
Thank you for providing this, there is so much wisdom and richness in what you have said. You have a wonderful way of saying things that are meant to challenge us without being overly blunt and aggressive, but without shying away or diluting their importance. Your heart for worship in its truest sense is so evident and it's clear you invest as much time pondering the meaning behind what we do when we gather to worship as you do in honing your musical ability.
I would just be interested to know if you can point me to any particular parts of scripture which support your first point of "there is a difference between songs for listening and songs for congregational singing". It's a point I've agreed with and made myself historically, but more as a practical thing, and I've never really known what scripture there is to back it up
Hello, Jeremy! Thank you for your thoughtful comment, brother. This is where the theme of scripture becomes critical. While there isnât a linchpin verse, we can explore the Psalms to identify the overarching theme. In a congregational setting, we are meant to sing to and about God. If we aim to do this with reverence, awe, and in Spirit and truth, then whatâs the best way to accomplish this? Firstly, we have to actually SING. Secondly, the words and composition of those songs must be truthful and God-centered. They should also be arranged in a way that facilitates a focus on God rather than the entertainment of men. Thereâs much more that can be said, but what do you think about that?
Well said sir. I would agree - I struggle a little as a lead in a context where people come from very different backgrounds - from rural traditional churches who are used to singing hymns with an organ to those from more âmodernâ worship cultures who are very comfortable with electric guitars, pads, big drums etc. Context is everything - we exist to point people towards God and sometimes the best way to do that is to abandon instruments and just let people sing, likewise sometimes people will be helped by huge track layers and a loud band! Itâs a difficult line we walk to keep all in balance. Thank you for your encouragement and reminder to keep our eyes on Christ above everything else
Well said. Itâs all about intent. â¤
Troy, I'd like to know which church you come from that gives you good theology
Thanks for your thoughts! I often think about the consumeristic mindset of American Christians who only "feel" worship when it's a song they like or when the music sounds cool and have struggled to know when it's okay to add extra big lead parts, solos, etc.
I am also curious - how do you respond when someone encourages your playing? At times, I've felt pride in my heart when people encourage me, but ideally, should I play in a way where I don't get any attention for the playing? I also see that it can be wise for people to encourage those who are utilizing their gifts well, so I've struggled to know what to say when others encourage me or point out my playing at church.
I have felt the same way about playing songs on sunday. I dont want to take a lead role and be noticed over the song as a whole. Now, i focus on adding to the song as a whole and either playing it how the song was made the best as possible so the congregation knows and can be "in" the song all the way or adding something small that doesnt stand out but just adds a little something. I dont want to do anything that would highlight me over the worship of God. Admittedly, it can be a struggle sometimes but its my prayer and focus every sunday we play
You made a great point in that first paragraph. âFeelingâ worship is such a moving target. I believe thereâs more objectivity to it than we care to admit, and I think we need to embrace that.
Concerning the compliments: I respond very awkwardly. I normally say âThank you; thatâs very kind. We enjoy singing with you all. All glory to Godâ, or something like that.
This is a great topic and I am very much in favor of most of those points. Especially the power of the preaching of the Word in Truth over the music. Donât get me wrong I do love the big delay effects and patched inversion type lead satirical style WorshipâŚBut I feel this style has almost but all taken over most of the mainstream worship both commercially and in the churches (both mega and small). Thus sounding the same. I do feel like it is a breath of fresh air sometimes when I hear older praise and worship like: Keith Green, Michael W Smith, or Ron Kenoly. You ever heard of Rich Mullins or Ragamuffin Band?? Wow! Great stuff!! Or Anointed Prophetic style like: Jason Upton, Misty Edwards, Rick Pino and Rita Springer. Or older/newer Pentecostal Style like Psalm 23 (I am not Alone), Went to the Enemyâs Camp/Look What the Lord Has Done (Seen folk get delivered in churches as those 2 songs were played đ). Another heavy anointed song that even uses a pinch harmonic divebomb, a big choir and classical guitar picking melodic notes at the end âŚAll Honor - Church on The Way To Berlin. I Sing Praises To Your Name by Free ChapelâŚThat saxophone is AMAZING!! (Someone in worship please make the sax COOL again haha!)âŚ
However, we do need to use Biblical and Spiritual Discernment if the the song (or parts of the song) is glorifying flesh or God. But also if there is a heavy talent being played in the instrument or voice if the living God and The Holy Spirit are in that part of the song God can very much use that too. The Word says so. Psalm 33:3 KJV â Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.â
Word, brother! Couldn't agree more. It's not about me, it's about Jesus......
Iâve struggled with many of these points for years. I started playing in church back in 02â roughly and have seen the fads change quite a bit. So much of style is regionally or culturally specific that itâs near impossible to pinpoint a genre. What we in the West think of is, unfortunately, commercialized. Even though many of the big churches that write the songs we sing, are their own labels, I imagine they still need to turn a profit of some kind to pay the people involved in writing and production. So I get it. The positive to this is a unified kind of church that isnât âseeker serviceâ oriented. With tracks, synchronization, technology and resources, many people of all ability levels can sound âgoodâ in most environments with an ounce of technological know how. Yes itâs streamlined but I still say the positives outweigh the negatives.
The other point I want to make is that styles do slowly change over time, and thatâs a good thing. Other than âsing to Him a new songâ, I canât think of exact scriptural reference, I still personally believe that artistic changes do need to eventually happen to keep from monotony.
Great points, Erik. Thanks for sharing, brother.
Iâve been following your channel for about a year now and itâs been an amazing resource for my playing and preparing for services. I love what youâre doing and itâs an inspiration. Iâve always agreed with every thought and opinion youâve shared, but with this I think I have to disagree.
Granted this view is based on my background as a lifelong songwriter and guitarist in rock/metal bands, both Christian and secular. I donât think it has to be either or, I think there can be a middle ground. One can acknowledge that yes, worship music can be musically âboringâ at times and sound the same but still enjoy playing it to serve the Lord.
I love writing music without limitations, a harmonized lead in harmonic minor or a song in D Phrygian with a bridge in F, it gives me musical satisfaction. Iâm not a fan of the âmajor scale 1-4-5-6 chord progressionâ limitation of modern worship music. Does it affect how I serve? No, because I know itâs not for me, itâs for God and for the congregation. I enjoy praising God with my talents, I enjoy working on the setlist all week, dialing in the tones, and then worshipping the Lord on Sunday. But the musical satisfaction isnât always there. I love getting to switch from the reverb and delay drenched tones to the heavy tones and write songs with my band in whatever key or tempo or scale or chord progression I want to do. Doesnât mean that I donât have a relationship with Christ or that the music my church plays isnât Biblically sound. I donât agree with making such a blanket statement.
I also get that this may not apply to the person who only plays on Sundays, doesnât have a need to write music or dive in to other styles. They are satisfied with knowing enough to worship on Sundays and thatâs it, no desire to do anything else. And thatâs totally fine, thereâs people like that on my team. But thereâs also those of us who love music so much and enjoy writing and doing things that worship music is not suited for. We have a bass player whoâs a jazz wizard and plays in a jazz band to get all his chops out lol.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Iâll still be here watching every video, getting your Helix patches and copying your ideas haha. God bless!
Hey brother!! đ I canât tell what youâre disagreeing with. If you have time, clarify for me. I got the sense you thought maybe I suggested creative expression was bad altogether, but thatâs not at all what I suggested I suggested that creative expression for the sake of anyone âneeding an outletâ is not appropriate for Lordâs Day. Let me know! Thanks bro!!
@@GuitarforHISGlory Maybe it was just the points you said to consider if you find worship music to be boring, like not having a relationship with Christ or not playing songs that are Biblically sound. Or that most of the people who say that worship music is boring care more about feeling and emotions than truth. Just seemed like it doesnât leave much room in the middle since this is something that will vary from person to person.
Like I said, I think there can be a middle ground of saying that modern worship music can be musically unsatisfying and even boring at times but still play it with a joyous heart every Sunday. I donât think it automatically means that you need to check yourself spiritually if you feel that way. I will clarify that I am strictly speaking about the music, not the lyrics and the purpose of those lyrics. I recognize that Iâm not stepping up there every Sunday to feel musically satisfied and I always pray that I never forget that Iâm not up there for myself but for God. But if Iâve misunderstood anything I apologize, I know you said they were just points to think about. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
@@metalguitar777 Thanks for clarifying, brother! đ I do believe that if believers who play guitar have a hard time getting excited over praise and worship (when the lyrics are biblical and true), should reconsider why theyâre serving. The music isnât at all whatâs important; itâs the words that are important. Our job is to lay a foundation for the God-honoring lyrics to sit on. Thatâs all weâre there for. Who cares if the music tickles our fancy or not, you know? We can scratch that itch somewhere else, other than Lordâs Day.
I love your gentleness and kindness. Thank you for that. đĽ°
My opinion/impression that you didn't ask for...most modern worship music is written by formula to not be easy to sing or perform, but to make money. No thanks. I've played in a few worship bands, to serve (and I like playing), but will always prefer a piano, out of tune choir and old hymns. To each their own though as long as they are worshipping the Lord and not the music or tone or performance.
Hey Russel. Do you have an evidential base for this? Just want to be educated on this opinion. Thanks!
I get where you are coming from. I feel itâs true about the formula to make moneyâŚbut itâs also true that itâs the way music has evolved around us.
I like hyms too, specially when they are way harder to play bc of the harmonic contextâŚbut they do also have âwayâ or âformulaâ.
What about all these âinfluencersâ that post videos with their huge studio, 8+ guitars, tons of amps, pedals, monitors, and more in the background? Is it not easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man getting into Heaven?
Please clarify what you mean by this comment. Are you suggesting that professional musicians who have tools for their trade will have difficulty committing to Christ?
Those who think it's boring have never felt the Holy Spirit wash over them and they are looking for entertainment for themselves...it's about praising the God not the Band...those complaining are probably the ones that are living 6 ways to sunday then play christian on sunday...sad
That is such a horrible immature take. Has anyone heard any commercially successful music in the last twenty years? Its about 3 chords if that. Anyone with that attitude has a chip on their shoulder, I know I used to feel like it myself. We are there ultimately as worshipers who just happen to be playing something
Thank you for the comment. I donât understand if you agree or disagree with the premise of the talk.