The One Fatal Design Flaw With Ford's 3.5L & 3.7L Duratec Engines
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
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Man you are a genius. Are you a ford mechanic? I'm glad you posted the video of the ford engines that the spark plugs blow out.
How do you know if the coolant in the oil did not scuff rod and main bearings or piston skirts? Maybe perform a leak down test. It would be a shame if one or more cylinders tested at 30% blow by. Or a rod bearing(s) was ruined by leaky water pump
The Duratec 4cyl I worked on had issue of poor coolant design around the spark plug/combustion chambers. Ford has bad engineering on that. The Triton V10 comes to mind. The sole reason Ford motors do not grenade is knock sensor pulling timing on ridiculously high chamber temps. Lean burn design into the realm of stupid
FordTechMakuloco they too good?
FordTechMakuloco overall as you know can't go wrong with Ford vehicles. We have Ecoboost gen1 & gen2 ..flawless. 3.5L GDI motor Edge approaching 224k mis no issues. We do good general maintenance as u should!
Some engineers just need the shit kicked out of them.
Please
They probably designed it that way on purpose.
In the 90s I was a water pump engineer for a Tier 1 to Ford. I was their Ford product designer. It was in the 90s that Ford started to purge all the old guys who had engineering experience + common sense. The result... see video above
Can't design perfect. Car would be too expensive. At the mileage failure... Ain't bad.
Most do
"Rev up your milkshakes!"
Whoops wrong channel....
Poor Scotty Kilmer has been getting hammered lately!
I am sure he loves the attention though.
@@officialyoutubecommentator4357 or maybe lack there of.
Hahaha!
Hahahahhaha good one.
Just remember, someone who makes wayyyyyy more than us put their stamp of approval on this
Turkum dogruyum caliskanim
-lol thats the problem..!
Engineers make a lot of money to design shit that pisses everyone else off.
Let's put the water pump on the inside of the engine. That's some Wile E. Coyote super genius stuff there Ford!
I love my little ford ranger but I agree! Ford always seems to chose to do things the hardest and most expensive way possible! I'm glad I have the simple 3.0 liter engine in my ranger rather than the 4.0. All this overhead cam stuff is just not needed in a daily driver! I'm not going to race the thing I just want a reliable daily driver.
The reason the water pump was placed inside the timing cover was for added clearance to fit the engine into more cars. with how long these water pumps last, it's a non issue.
My pump went out after just 100k miles @@FM4AMGV
@@FM4AMGV Its what is called engineered failure? Without preventive maintenance, the engine is junk. Preventive maintenance of water pump replacement is expensive. Its like timing belts on an interference engine.
Since the engine uses chains to run everything instead of a timing belt it needs lubricated just as the rest of the engine does. They probably went with a chain driven timing system as it lasts longer than the belts but water pumps won't last as long as the chain drive so people don't think about it until it fails. The mechanic is correct in saying that the water pump in this design should be somewhere else. At least with a belt driven timing system, while it requires replacement far more frequently it is usually within the life of the water pump and can (and should) be replaced when the belt is done. Not all dealers will replace the pump when doing the timing belt so if you do have the timing belt replaced insist that the water pump be replaced as well as it will save you a lot of trouble later when the pump fails which causes the belt to no longer turn the cams and can either be an annoyance (non-interference engine) to catastrophic (interference engine).
Personally, with the oil like that I would probably want the engine torn down completely as there is likely the start of damage to the main and crankshaft bearings and they should be inspected to see if they need replaced.
I have a 2009 Flex with the 3.5L and did the water pump myself. Took me a weekend but saved me a ton of money! BTW it has 335k miles on it and runs like its new! Great engine! ALWAYS BY FORD PARTS, Don't buy cheap Chinese parts! Trust me, you'll be doing this job again soon.
@Bull's Eye I change the oil every 3k miles and coolant every 60-65k miles
@Bull's Eye syn blend. I'm old school I don't trust what oil company's say their oil is good for.
@Bull's Eye like I said, my 09 flex has 335k miles. I changed the water pump for the first time at 320k! I was lucky enough to catch the failure as soon as it started to drip in my driveway while I was doing a oil change.
@@ramtrucks721 I have a 2007 Focus with 235000 and no issues since I bought it with 42000. You need to hush. Every manufacturer makes some good ones and some junk.
@@davidkelp9444 2003 Taurus 2 Valve 3.0 with 341K...with no rust...and I'm no Ford lover.....
My milkshake brings all the tools to the Ford...
😆
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Mazda
My camshaft is bigger than yours 😁
I can torque it, but I have to charge
260K? Wow besides the water pump placement, this engine seems like a winner.
Yeah. If my 3.7 lasts 260k, I am ok just paying for a new engine.
My 2017 explorer 3.7 has 340,000 kms 225,000 miles. Coolant change every 60,000 miles... original water pump. No issues. Corrosive coolant eats the waterpump gaskets
I come to this channel to rekindle my love for pushrods if I ever feel like buying something new.
😂👌👍
👍
This comment deserves an award
I would agree from a simplicity stance but innovative manufacturing processes will eventually be adopted by all car companies aka the modular motor. I've owned alot of Ford's and the common flaw is always in the timing chain setup which leads me to have a firm belief that you may be able to use the same machines for all your engine production but at the expense of constant redesign, not to mention bending your engineers over a barrel every year lol. Love Ford but wish they would stop trying to reinvent the wheel year after year.
@@Thriving257 No thanks. I don't care for innovation if it means 40ft of timing chain with brittle tensioners and hidden water pumps (not to mention 2 piece spark plugs and cam phasers).
I love Ford; but I feel like their engines are nothing but Rube Goldberg devices.
Good job on the video...I say the dealership you left from are regrets you leaving... BUT NOT US POOR PEOPLE!!!!! Keep em coming buddy you da man...lol...
Excellent and educational video. As a 2015 Taurus 3.5 owner, I appreciate this incite and knowledge.
Here's hoping the Fords obvious decision to keep the water pump inside - by beefing up the parts and changing coolant from orange to yellow - was the right choice to make.
Overall, the Cyclone Duratec 35/3.5L Ti-VCT V6 is a completely satisfactory engine for light duty use and good on power and gas mileage. The engine life expectancy is about 200,000 miles. If we can be diligent in avoiding this $2k overhaul.
Professional and Honest.
We the general public thank you for your service. 👍
Nice video, nice info. I did a 2012 Taurus a few weeks back, double sprocket water pump, leaking behind the alternator, pump was not loose and it had the original single channel gasket/seal etc. I did not use Ford parts, not my choice, but the aftermarket water pump did have a double channel gasket/seal. Luckily for the engine no coolant was mixed in the oil.
Besides the water pump failure that engine looks like it’s in good shape
I fully agree, if you got it that far apart, may as well do the chain, gears and tensioners. Onr thing i'd do, is once back together, i'd run it no more than 3 minutes (to get new oil through the engine) and change the oil and filter again. Just to make sure to get all the milky oil and water out
This reminds me so much of what happened to a next door neighbor of mine. This was years back. But he had a late 80's Ford Ranger with the 2.9. The heads cracked and the coolant ended up in the crankcase. His son and me ended up rebuilding the entire engine. It was a great learning experience for me. But, IMO this was a senseless repair. 2.9 heads were prone to this @ the time.
Itx not a fatal flaw. It's designed to fail to create work for the shops, and or to get them to buy a new automobile
I agree,It's just like the plastic thermostat housing on the 4.0.Most people fry the engine because of the loss of coolant.
Absolutely the truth, design's like this is put there to create problems and make them money. Not even a shade tree mechanic could design this crap and not catch the problem with it.
well, how do they know which mechanic will get to do this job? Selling parts? this guy said it was $37 for the pump. Lets say another $500 for all other original parts. Still, i would think it is more a design flaw. At least, they made those drip holes so you can watch out for the coolant dripping and engine loosing coolant outside first. Obviously, the owner didn't cant that or didn't know where it is coming from.
Exactly, Skotty Kilmer said that vehicles are designed to fail these days.
Engineered obsolescence is the game. Ford intentionally engineered the hell out of the engines to deliver what the customer wants, but for a limited time, and to make high dollar repairs.
The fact that they even thought to accommodate for 1 leak type is a great indicator. I cannot recall any manufacturer with a timing chain drive water pump that has made that accommodation.
My company had one 2010 Flex with the 3.5 and it did this, around 160k miles, we did not get any warning, no coolant consumption or weepage from the weep hole under the alternator. Dumped all the coolant into the engine, and the oil pump ate aluminum and plastic from the pump. We opted to put a junkyard engine with 80k on it instead of trying to fix that engine. Installed our $600 junkyard engine, and it had slight seepage from the weep hole. We sold the vehicle off for cheep. Should have cracked the junker open and replaced the water pump, oh well. Seems like what we can expect for engine life on new cars keeps dropping, I used to consider 200k the benchmark for a good vehicle with original engine and transmission. We are trading tons of reliability for "fancy", power, and MPG. More and more throw away cars.
"no coolant consumption or weepage from the weep hole under the alternator"
Yes, there was. You (or more likely, the idiot you underpay to change your oil from time to time) didn't notice it.
We don’t have to keep buying the sh^t. I’m not.
Your exactly right! I have an 11 Taurus SEL with 142K, no warning, no consumption, no weeping, no seeping, just catastrophic failure! Oil changes faithfully at 3000 mile intervals. I was on the hywy and all of a sudden it sounded like lifter chatter and I thought hmmm, must have gotten some bad gas. The next day the battery was dead. Got a jump and drove home which was 260 miles. About a week after that I got an oil change. Drove my car 2 miles from the lube shop and when I got back in the car the battery was dead again. Btw, my battery isn't even a year old. Got a jump, went to work 26 miles from home when I left work, I drove about 30 miles back to the city and went to turn into a parking lot and while my wheels were turned to the left, the car started lurching and heaving?! Wtf, so I pull into the parking stalls to look at my guages and the temp was just under the "H" and the temp indicator light came on and the car shut down on its own! I got it started a couple more times and drove it approx 10 mile not before adding coolant which I realized was not raising up in the reservoir. 2 days later the car was towed to the dealer and the dealership is waiting for a remanufactured engine with 50K or less. Great car. I have a 2011 up until this point but I'm worried about the tranny having 142K miles versus a healthy lower mileage engine. Should I let it go??
@@ced9973 same here at 180k
@@ced9973 yes depreciation is really bad . my transmission is solid not worried about it but who has time and money to replace this . i did for about $500
I have a ‘13 Flex EB with the updated pump and it failed at about 36k miles/5 years. Never saw a drip on the ground because the aero-shield under the engine was catching them all. There was a sweet aroma from under the hood and some coolant loss so I was able to take it to the dealership before the engine failed.
Planned obsolescence! ;)
After 200k miles? Sure ok.
@@humanbeing-001 after 200k miles when is time to do that job who wants to pay 2k or more for a car worth almost as much?
@@2tooful a lot of cars have really high maintenance/repairs around 200k. Ever replace the failed lifters on a gm Ls with cylinder deactivation?
@@meegstomtom yup I agree, your point being??
@@2tooful not point other then some people buy high milage used cars and complain when things break. Or chew through tires instead of replacing worn components.
It just amazes me how people do no maintenance on a cr and complain when something goes wrong. Out side of oil changes and air filters.
I know this is an old video , but I have a ‘10 Taurus that I preemptively changed water pump and all timing components at the dealership. I bought the car used with 174k miles. After all this work, what’s the reliability of these 3.5’s ? I love the car and it runs great! Thanks for all you’re videos.
Glad I found your page. Have found your videos super helpful. Did the plugs on my 3.7 after seeing your video. Glad your shop is only 2 hours away. When it comes time for this job I’ll probably get my vehicle up to you to service.
I always regard a water pump as a service item if it's driven by the cam chain/belt.
Excellent vid on the water pump issue on the Duratec engines. From what I gather, the engine itself is very quite bullet-proof except for the water pump.
I saw a transit van with a 3.7 with 450k miles the engine is great beside the water pump which is it's Achilles Heel.
I did one on a mks very easy, one of the easiest chains I've done. But many told me the engine had to come out to properly time the engine. I refused to go that far, but I'm Glad too see I was not the only one doing it on the car.👍
I Had a Lincoln MkT stretch limo with the 3.7. Did 200k miles with it. Loaded twice as mich as the normal car. Pulling 6-7000 lbs all day long. Bumper to bumper Chicago traffic as well as higway . winter -30 summer 100. Iddle it all day long to keep interior up to temp. The fleet i work for has like many of them. None of them fail the water pump but they were 2014models. Currently have '18 3.5 ecoboost stretch lincoln mkt. This is a powerful car. 10 adult man in the car and it pulls like a train. My father inlaw has 2012 Mkz that has this 3.5 non turbo and the water pump failed at under 300k miles. Fixed it and now car has 370k miles. Engine runs just like the day it was bought. Absolutely stunning engines as you said
And by the way it won LeMans couple years ago in its GT version
Good to know this, Brian. I'd highly recommend changing all these components at 150k miles just to be sure. Bearings and cams don't like water as a lube!
A friend has an 11 Edge and I have driven it a number of times in all weather and the 3.5l v6 is responsive, like he said smooth, and very reliable as long as you take care of the oil, radiator, trans fluid, etc.
Doesn’t matter..all water Pumps fail at around the 100k mark
Thank you Brian. Good job
I appreciate your videos. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Great work. Something to think about doing if you're going to keep the car.
Never paid any attention on how many miles that engine could achieve. Great Channel you have Brian.
Thanks for sharing this information to the general public.
Very good video.
Great video on this motor. Do you have any suggestions on preventing this failure for our customers? Obviously frequent oil changes with quality oil/filter to keep the timing components operating smoothly. On time or premature tune ups to keep everything smooth. Maybe coolant flush with a lubricity additive? But the real problem here is the bearing failure that in theory should never get wet, correct?
I would like to know too
If I owned one of these, I would probably just replace the water pump every 175k and be done with it.
I’m near finished replacing my dual tooth water pump. 2017 Explorer. The pump was seeping, then later you could hear the bearing clicking. Thankfully there wasn’t a milkshake in there. Painstaking yes if you do it yourself but if you’re semi pro knowledgeable it’s easy.
I had no clue about this issue until joining a FB group for the Fusion and someone mentioned it. I have a 2012 Sport FWD with 86k on it.
I've had customers wanting to change a leaking water pump and when I get in there the guides are crazy worn down and the tensioner is shot! So sometimes these timing belt driven water pumps is a good thing because it gets people to change their timing components, otherwise they don't worry about it till it's too late.
The mech a nic poor maintenance on any vehicle spells trouble dude. Ford is primo in trucks always been . Buy with confidence.
This Ford is chain drive.
True
Great point "The mech a nic"
same design as the 2.7 Chrysler engine, same fatal flaw but the engine was death by 70K miles
@Aluminum Chicken yup i was a tech at Chrysler also from 2014 thru earlier this years, they were no widespread catastrophic pattern failures has those we mentioned, transmissions are way better now and the line up of engine at FCA are quite good like the 3.6 Pentastar or the Hemi
@Aluminum Chicken yup the recalls was installing a 5$ external relay ,i was doing the same procedure the same parts on Grand Caravan & Town and Country easy to do
Hey now...... Im still driving an intrepid with a 2.7 . But your right.... a internal water pump is a bad idea.... I cannot believe another company did the same thing.
These engines easily last 200-300k with no issues. The issue appears to be very rare, to the point where the majority of Ford dealerships I've talked to, have either never seen it, or have only seen it a few times. The issue doesn't seem to exist after the new timing chain design they created.
@@bigd9260 same here. 225k and still going strong. I did replace water pump and timing components last year though.
My 2013 flex had this happen at 45k. Had it fixed under warranty and sold it to carmax as soon as I got it back.
I have a 2 2005 Ford Five hundred Sel’s one with awd w/cvt, and one with 6 speed front wheel drive. Changed oil usually before 4,000 miles and with CVT changed fluid @ 40k and 80k. Zero problems after 18 years, bought new in 2006. Also the water pumps are external on 3.0 Duratec engines.
Thank you for making this video. Been waiting a long time for you to discuss this water pump issue. I still can't believe Ford thought it was a good idea to put the water pump in the crankcase! I'm hoping it'll be a long time before i have to deal with this in my 2016 Flex!
I put out a similar video in may of this year addressing this.
@@FordTechMakuloco Ah, didn't catch that one. Thanks! Keep it up!
Sounds like a darn good engine design & was long lasting. Go Ford!
Those are some HIGH mileage intervals on the 3.5 & 3.7🤔🤔
Is this sarcasm?
A Ford engineer admitted to me that they engineer Fords to last 3 years because “research showed that’s what our customers want”. I couldn’t believe I heard him right so I pressed him a bit for an explanation... he went on to say “ Ford customers want a new car every three years, so we build them to last that long”. This is no BS. This conversation was at a friend’s Christmas party in the Cleveland area in either 1999 or 2000. I decided then and there to never buy a Ford product ever again. It’s a shame too, because their designs are some of the best looking, and I like the way Fords ride.
I have a 2010 fusion sport I bought brand new with the 3.5, now has 130k and have not had any issues with the engine at all
@@bluesbrother2383 I’ve driven several Fusions as rental cars and have found them to be quite nice. They handle well, give a nice ride, are quiet and easy to drive and park. They look nice too. As I understand it, Fusion is a Mazda design, but I think the 3.5L engine and trans are both designed and built by Ford. I have a buddy with that same engine in his Edge and it’s given him very good reliability. The last Fusion I rented was during a business trip where I drove it for about a week. It was a Hybrid and I was surprised by how nice it was.
@@c5back9 the sport is a mazda 6 frame, ford chassis and a Lincoln engine and tranny, in that particular model they took the best part of each car and made it into a really decent super reliable car that just happens to have the ford badge
My understanding is the 3.5 & 3.7 in the Edge requires engine removal to replace the water pump. Big bucks, so replacing the water pump before it fails is still a significant expense. Thanks for the video! Good information.
No, only the Ford Fusion Sport 3.5L requires engine removal.
The standard procedure is to drop the cradle, it makes it easier but it isn’t necessary
Moral of the story. Check your fluids once a week. Get in the habit. Takes 2min tops. I do it every Sunday. Open the hood before starting my truck. Brake fluid, engine oil, coolant level and power steering fluid. You will notice if the coolant level starts to drop, or engine oil is the wrong color. Brake fluid low? Any of these signs warrant a closer inspection to prevent costly repairs or catastrophic engine failure.
@@joejones5491 YOU SAID IT!
Our Flex just decided to do it one day, right outta the Blue.
No warning.
Despite the design flaw, our 2007 Edge AWD 3.5L had the water pump fail at 130,000 miles, pretty much did the same thing minus the timing components and shes still going strong with 245,000 miles, my fords always bite my wallet for about $2000 for some stupid known issue. But having said that, I’ve gotten almost 400,000 miles out of each of my fords and I expect the same from our ‘07 Edge. The damn things just keep running
I have a 2013 edge sport only 52k hopefully i get 150k
My mothers Taurus X had this motor. It was very reliable with 235K miles on the original engine and transmission. We decided to get rid of it though due to it still having the original water pump, if it failed the repair would be more than the car is worth. One thing I've noticed is that on the F-150s the 3.5 Ecoboost and 3.7 have a belt driven water pump instead of a timing chain driven one.
Thanks for the excellent video! I'm trying to upgrade a few years to a 2014 Taurus. I do any repairs I can. I like Fords & in checking the Taurus 3.5 specs I saw the warnings about internal water pumps. Your video gave me the confidence to go ahead. All I have to do is pay attention to your advice of those two fluids.
Tom Z
Same here, with a 2013 flex in almost new condition. It gets almost as good gas mileage as my 2001 Windstar 3.8L around town, maybe a little better at times. On the highway, the Windstar wins, even though it's about 1000 lbs. heavier than the Flex and has 177K miles on it. The Flex just hit 120K. I do like the way the 3.5L runs and how smooth it is. I just don't care much for the 6-speed transmission and the way it seems to pick the wrong gears when downshifting. (Probably from me being used to a 4-speed in the Windstar. I had the same problem with our Navigator, downshifting too many gears on a pass, revving the engine like I'm at Le Mans and making my wife's knuckles turn white and eyes get really big).
I figured out that the Flex is basically a Taurus in disguise with a huge, versatile trunk. It does NOT handle anything like it looks. It handles more like a sport sedan, is pretty quick when needed and cruses very nicely the rest of the time.
I had been looking for a newer ride for my wife and favored the Taurus, but the price of the Flex, I guess because of its unique appearance, got us more bang for the buck but still has the same internal water pump issues. That's why I have been watching these videos.
Sorry for rambling. Have a great weekend!
Good reason to start doing oil analysis periodically on these engines, especially at the higher mileages. That would be a good early indicator of coolant in the oil.
Best comment on this video. Once a year, pull a 2.5 dollar oil analysis.
Thanks for another great video. Should owners of this type of engine have the pump changed preemptively around 200,000?
I’ve put 318954 on my 3.7 non turbo f150 runs great. Only problem is when it’s cold the motor starts slowly but no problems
"Make you loco" :D thank you, now I get it. I was always thinking "he doesn't look Hawaiian!" or maybe doing "The Macarena" dance : D
The stress on the pump is tremendous considering its location, temperatures, and anybody who has turned an engine with a wrench knows the that it isn't easy opening the valves. Especially 24valves and 4 cams.
Next Ford will put the alternator inside the engine driven by the chain.Henry must be rolling in his grave.
@@kevbateup9567
There is a story about Ford and Toyota I read once. Toyota sent a group tasked to look at junked/broken down vehicles.The parts that failed earlier were marked to make better. Story I read goes, Ford did similar. Except his group looked at parts lasting longer than those broken. The opposite basically.
I own a 2015 Exploder AWD Base. Comfortable and no trouble. The water pump, timing adjusters, PTO, rear diff. and exhaust leaks are the bad on these vehicles. For those not mechanical, no garage, tools etc. if looking for lower maintenance, look elsewhere. You have those with 260, 000 miles no trouble but is that the norm with low maintenance? Maybe. Still I'm looking to selling my 80, 678 mile Exploder come spring. Well maintained, solid and original. Just needing a 4x4 pick-up.
I just did this on my 2010 flex ecoboost, which still has the single link chain like this. Wasn't all that difficult and I spend just over 300 on parts
The flex eco is one of the easiest mainly becuase there is no power steering pump to deal with.
Yes, no cursed stretchy belt either.
@@FordTechMakuloco so from my understanding is the single sprocket water pumps are more prone to the failure? I have a 2014 taurus limited with 124k miles and I'm quite bothered about the life left in my pump. It's of course the duel sprocket design. But I hear they can fail just as early. Thinking about doing preventative maintenance on it. But dont want to spend 2k
Hello. My Mazda CX9 has 300,000 km of mileage. I have an original pump. The engine runs fine. Should I change the pump or watch the car and wait for a fault?
Excellent . . . Learned new stuff about my 3.5L 2012 sport Fusion duarte engine . Very Educational
I'm glad you put these videos on. I write down the vehicles you describe for future reference not to buy new or used!
Yea, had to change my water pump in our new Taurus, 66k miles, what a job !
In paying to have mine done :/
@@gkdrummer1461 took me a day and a half 🤨
That’s kind of a big deal, thanks for showing us.
By far, your videos are superb! I am quite thrilled perhaps by hearing you say that the 2012 and newer don't necessarily have this same issue. I have a 12 MKZ with around 82,000. Should I be as concerned? I did cross reference from a few auto part sites that there indeed is a dual sprocket setup that is different from the 2011 MKZ. I feel a little tingle in my stomach as to not be as concerned with this issue as of yet; am I right to feel this way? I am dealing with the AWD as well and your 30,000 mile service is well in my head. No matter what though, thank you for all that you do. It is a major blessing to us common folk.
You’re probably good concerning the water pump issue. Just change the oil regularly and use a high grade oil filter.
Don’t delay changing the oil for the PTU though. If it hasn’t been done it’s past due!
All fwd cars with the 3.5, 3.5 EcoBoost, and 3.7 V6 has that problem no matter what year you get.
Great video. This just happened to me yesterday. Topped off coolant about 3 miles from our shop. Engine did not sieze but was very sluggish to accelerate the last mile. She starts but worried engine is toast even if I get a new pump and chains. 186,000 miles.
A water pump leak that cant been found until it gets into the oil. Brilliant!!
I just did one that had a duel sprocket waterpump! Same as the old ones
What year was yours?
Hi friend, Paulo from Brazil. Excellent analysis! I think that the water pump should be changed when maintaining the chain tension system. That would avoid a big future problem. Hug!
I did one of these! Wasn't bad at all. I beat book time on it with no prior duratec experience
You do great videos, you know what you’re doin, great mechanic !👍
As always... Great videos buddy... Very useful info... Continue with the great job...
I really enjoy your videos. I have a 2012 CX9. It has 205,000 miles. I've had it since it had 58,000 miles, and I've always changed my own oil every 3000-4000 miles with Quaker State Full Synthetic. I change the coolant every 4-5 years. I live in a temperate climate (Ohio), and most of the driving is highway miles for leisure. I just changed my oil tonight, and see no issues. The car runs excellent and is very quiet. We went out west to Wyoming twice in the last 3 years. Should I be proactive in changing the water pump, or hold off?
Well, you just explained what happened to my wifes Sable 2 weeks ago. 3.5 V-6. 2008 Mercury Sable 191000 on it. She drove to work and it screwed up when she was just about to work. I kept asking her why she didnt stop. She said it never made any kind of noise. No valve pinging or anything and I was scratching my head on how it couldnt have cause she said the temp pegged all of the sudden. Oil was a milkshake. I thought the head gasket blew but now what you are saying explains it.
So that’s what a $1500 water pump looks like. Genius move Ford with the engineered obsolescence in an engine that could very well last 500k+ miles.
The price may have changed for whatever reason since you commented this, but for me, the dealership only quoted me like $180 for the part
Yes, planned obsolescence….the American way. I left the “domestics” in my late 20s…one of the best financial decisions I ever made. I look at my friends and neighbors who for some reason keep buying Fords, GM, and Chrysler products. Some have had ok results and when I say ok I mean 150k miles before major issues. 150k miles for me is about half my expectation in how long a car goes before major repairs are needed. But again, I’m a Toyota guy and can have that expectation.
Glad to see you doing this job inside the engine compartment. Chiltons recommends to pull the engine for this job. Obviously that’s not the case. I got a 2008 sable I am dreading this job. Is there enough room in the sable to pull the timing cover off without pulling the engine? Thanks for the great video.
In another post he said yes, the Taurus and Sable have room. The engine compartments are fairly similar with this engine configuration.
Great job man. I have been a ford fan, since I was a teen and saw a 91 5.0 mustang parked on my neighbors driveway. I recently purchased a 2015 taurus 3.5L. I like it. Very roomy. I will keep on eye on this like that. Good to know thay these engines last forever. Thanks for all the good info
205k my water pump started going out but mine is a 2014 and thankfully the water pump was on the outside of the motor very easy to change
How long can this engine sit with coolant and oil before it has effects on the bearings? Thanks in advance and appreciate all of the videos!!!
BG is in the town iam in. and i know a lot of mechanics. and NONE have any thing bad to say about BG
Yeah my 2014 Ford explorer leaked out the side of block. 80k miles and engine looked so clean inside. So I just replaced the pump took me a entire day not the most accessible water pump that's for sure.
This is a good "heads up" video. Have you ever run into a vehicle that when filling with fuel, it can be filled from empty to almost full with no issues(meaning the pump doesnt continually click off nor does it fill slowly)... However, if the pump is left run until it clicks off, some fuel pours back out of the filler. It is a 2017 police interceptor utility. I disconnected the Vent lines from charcoal canister, same issue.
I always find it a little bit funny when you have an engine with 268K that was running great until the waterpump failed and then you say something about exceeding the life of the engine. Except for the poorly designed water pump location, these engines appear to be designed to last nearly forever. I think that the only thing that kills them are poor maintenance and the cost of doing this service as a preventative maintenance item on a vehicle with that kind of mileage on it and the failures of other components like the transmission or corrosion of the body and chassis. Is maintenance the reason for the relatively little wear on the chain guides unlike what you have shown on some of the other engines that you have worked on? It always amazes me how little maintenance people seem to think is necessary in vehicles which are such an expensive and complex investment.
I have a fleet of 3.7l Explorers and Taurus interceptors.. This was the thing that pushed me over the edge to look at other vehicles. Ford really messed up with the design of these vehicles. On the AWD explorers I cant keep a trans in them either to make it past 100k miles.
I'm guessing you're biased towards ford, I've seen plenty with over 300k without any issues, maintenance goes a long way
dusty fleissner nope. I’m not brand picky. I loved the Crown Vic’s. Just so happens this current product is garbage. These new cars are not built to last in the line of work like the Crown Vic was. But there is a ton of just plain poor engineering on them. Making a $57 water pump with a plastic impeller run of the timing chain thats under the timing cover shoved against the body structure is dumb. Then when it does go out it pumps water into the oil and hydro locks the motor. If it doesn’t it cost $2200 to have it fixed.
Why not general maintenance it? Cause it cost $2200 dollars. Usually when this happens my cars are about 3 years old with 130k miles and I’m getting ready to rotate them out. On a high in the condition they are in they are worth maybe 5k. So there is no reason for me to risk $2200 on them at the end of their life for me. On the other hand i have a 07 Crown Vic that has 130k that the only reason i have to get rid of it is it just got totaled. But since 07 it has hardly cost me any money to keep running. In the 3 years of ownership on the Taurus and Explorer i spend about 15-20k in maintenance and repairs per car.
Not a fan of these.
My retired 3.7 explorer had about 150k and 5600 idle hours on it when the water pump failed. Cost me about $2k to fix. The dealer was experienced in doing them, and did mine in a day and half. I had a 07 CVPI before this, and the water pump failed. Cost me about $300 all in, so I feel your pain!
@@redetroitwing Yeah, he has a negative bias against Ford which is why he purchased them for his fleet. Makes sense, right? I always buy brands that I hate.
Then you blurt out' "I've seen plenty with over 300k without any issues" which is total bullshit. Who has the bias here?
Jake Highland they run almost 24/7. One of my worst cars had 28k in repair and maintenance receipts when i dumped it. Not hard to do when a trans cost 4K and 2 AWD difs at 1k a pop, not to mention the electronic power steering at $1600 that goes out if it touches curb height water. MacPherson strut front suspensions hardly last a few months. Tires, alignments(one car can have up to 15 alignments in a 3 year span). Air conditioning systems never last and also are expensive just to repair due to ford building things into them that use to be a separate piece.
Don’t look at the fact that i drive an old GM truck and say this is ford bashing. I fucking love Crown Vics. They were easy to work on. Cheap to maintain. Built like a truck suspension and chassis wise. They were amazing. I would buy everyone back and just invest the 35k these cars cost me in restoring them cause they will last way longer.
After all the trouble i had with these i started ordering my Taurus interceptors with FWD cause then i don’t have to replace the AWD units on them. But now they aren’t doing them anymore and want me to switch to a fusion or fusion hybrid. Hell no.
I’m going to switch to Jeep Grand Cherokee and see what kinda hell those will give me. At least they are double wishbone suspension with the motor turned the right direction and a RWD. Also the water pump is right on the front of the motor where it belongs.
And for those that don’t get under these cars. The Taurus and the Explorer are the exact same vehicle with different bodies.
Good insights as usual. I agree with what you say about the dealers and manufacturers. They need to slow down and improve their designs...
When do you recommend swapping it out? I have 2 of these engines. One Eco, one not. Both amazing. Recently upgraded from 2 different 3.0's. very reliable
Ford seems to always have good, appealing, and innovative designs all with a fatal flaw that stop the vehicle/drivetrain from being top notch. Shame really.
Question: So my wife really wants a explorer. I'm a mechanic but I dont work on fords like that. I've been looking into these engines and I'm really considering the 2.3l FWD just cause I'm trying to avoid that 3.5l waterpump issue. From your experience on these which engine is overall the best? Also which year explorer, 2015 or 2016? Thanks in advance.
TY for the super informative vid. Between your channel and powerstrokehelp, I'll never buy another!
Reminder that the water pump is only mounted inside on the FWD drive and AWD motors. All rear wheel drive 3.7L Cyclones are mounted outside keeping you from having to worry about this problem.
The internal water pump is one of those harebrained ideas not exclusive to Ford. Chrysler has done this too.
GM has too!
Ya these are not Ford Designed engines but designed by Mazda
Nissan has too.
There are three 3.0 Liter V6 Duratech in my immediate family. GREAT engines. At least they have the external water pumps. LOL!
I also have three of the 3.0's in my family lol. 05 and 06 tribute and 08 mariner. These suckers all leak oil.They are reliable as hell durable.But the oil leaks are a constant battle.seems like every year a new oil leak pops up.Mostly the stupid double gasket double oil pan.Then valve cover gaskets to follow then camshaft seals.
pontiachotshot -
Yep those 3.0 are leakers! One with 200k another with 185k miles. Run good but the driveway is a mess.
I seen on You Tube that there is a shop that drops the motor out of the car to replace the water pump....That is crazy to have to drop an engine out of the car to replace a 60 dollar part...! That needs to be changed to a better way to fix. Also if your Ford has AWD you will have a big bill to replace that unit when it fails due to the area and the heat in that area burns the oil out of the unit and destroys the gear box. Ford has a big problem with that also....!
We have several 3.5's in our fleet. I saw today that a 2014 Taurus had a bad water pump. Just FYI, it was a double-sprocket pump with a loose pulley bearing. Also, it only had one o-ring and not the double one.
I had an 03 Ford Taurus with the duratech. Excellent motor. I drove the car to the junkyard with over 300 THOUSAND miles on it. Unfortunately, the new England weather took its toll on the rockers and floors
An '03 Taurus is actually a very good car overall, the biggest issue with those was the transmission. But if you service it every now and then (adding an external cooler also helps) and don't run it like a race car they hold together quite well. They get a bad rep for being typical rental cars and most of the people who bought them did the typical Ford thing and never did any maintenance, blew it up, then blamed Ford but they're actually a great car if you treat them right.
@@406Steven
Well the car was given to me with about 150,000 miles on it. I had only intended to run for a winter. I was NOT easy on it. The car was loaded. If I could find another one just like it, I would buy it. It took a beating. I changed the struts and put slotted rotors on it because they kept warping. Other than that, I did absolutely nothing to it. I even put a trailer hitch on it to haul my boat. Tough car.
Duratech is an ironic misnomer for a POS, wtf happened to that old 300cid L6 engine? Nothing Ford makes anymore, including PU Trucks are worth a flying F. Found On Road Dead (POS).
Sad to see a good car die of rust cancer
I'm dreading this repair with my 08 Edge. It has 230,000 km
Christopher Mohamed don't dread tackle soon if need be! It's excellent engine. Proven. Always run Mobil1 oil & Motorcraft filters.
@@Davido50 Very good advice! That's all I use in my '08 Edge and my'03 F150 with the 4.6!
I'm a Ford buyer but man it really hurt when ours went at only 58k miles in an 2008 MKZ we just bought 3 weeks before. The motor still turns so I'm going to try flushing it out and running cooling system sealant to see if that works first. Thanks for the video, it gave me hope that we may not have to replace the whole engine.
Did you have any luck flushing the engine?
We flushed out the engine enough to get it running again to put it on a trailer to a Ford dealer where we were able to get a great price on installing a new water pump with a 2-year warranty on the pump and labor.
@@SSecondo1 Thanks for the info! Would you still recommend getting an MKZ after all that?
It was a great car other than the water pump flaw. If you don't mind knowing that the water pump could randomly fail and cause an expensive repair possibly blowing the engine, it could be ok, just keep an eye on the condition of the engine oil for signs of coolant.
I have the 3.5 in my 2008 Ford Taurus with 178k miles. Maintained well with no problems (so far). When do you recommend to change the water pump as preventative maintenance? I intend on keeping this car as long as it runs.
Seems to be the way of 21st Century automotive engineering. Make a great engine, then throw one achilles heel in there to bring the whole thing down, or destroy it.
GM's LS engines, mainly the 5.3, are a bulletproof design ... but then they went and designed a crappy AFM (Active Fuel Management - aka, 4-cylinder mode for those who aren't familiar) system, with crappy cams, and springs. Turned a 300k + mile engine into a 90k - 130k mile engine.
Also like Ford's 2.0 SPI in the early '00's Focus - that engine would definitely be capable of 300k miles ... but they went and installed sub-par cylinder heads on them that spit valve seats out and destroy the engine, at roughly the same amount of mileage as GM's LS engines.
Makes you wonder if all manufacturers collaborate together these days to make junk, so one doesn't look worse than another ...
Smitty Smithsonite hey I totally agree with you. So are there any good domestic engine and transmission combos left in this world made 1999 and after?
@@youngb1ood - None off the showroom floor, unfortunately. They all can be really great engines with extensive aftermarket modifications. GM's 5.3 is fine after deleting the AFM - swapping the cam, lifters, and springs, and tuning out the AFM.
Makes sense. They want you to buy a new vehicle every 10 years. ;)
I simply disabled the AFM on my 08 5.3. Just passed 220k with no issues with the engine whatsoever since new. at 130k I did replace the belts and idlers though. Pulled the plugs...still looked new so back in they went. I change the oil every 5-7k miles or whenever the OLM reaches 25%...whichever comes first. Yeah...bulletproof for sure. I tow with it, haul heavy loads occasionally and live in a harsh, northern Wisconsin climate where I see -25 in the winter and 95 in the summer. Best engine I've every owned...Oh...it will consume about 1/2qt between changes if towing alot but for 220k...that's nothing.
It's funny that it can be going into nickel-rocket mode on a single component too. GM made some V6's that are perfectly reliable when they have a metal gasket. But instead they used a composite gasket that the acids in Dexcool coolant happen to dissolve in a few years.
Hey thank you for posting your videos. Can you recommend a scanner that monitors (live data) everything including the transmissions on vehicles and is not crazy expensive that say a DIY'er can use? I am learning quite a bit but I'd be willing to say that with so many different technologies being incorporated you'd have to really study the craft like a Dr. If you'd like to master this field but I don't know if the returns will be as rewarding though.
Before I bought my 2018 2.7l Edge Sport I asked the Ford Service manager if the 2.7l has the water pump inside like the 3.5l and he looked at me like I was a space alien so did some research (Rock Auto) and it appears like the 2.7l has the water pump on the outside of the engine...AM I RIGHT????
We have a low kms rig,216kms,for sure keep my four eyes on it. Now I work at a Ford shop,as aparts man,seen one recently done,water pump.blessings from 🇨🇦
Makin me love my ford 4.6L V8. Doesn't suffer form this problem, and has aftermarket upgrades I look forward to if it ever dies. That said, I likely have a few hundred thousand miles to go in order to worry about that.
turnip sucks try new Ecoboost! We have 4 they are excellent! Zero issues 5yrs + now.
@@Davido50 Pass. I'm honestly not a fan of all the gadgets that go into cars these days. It honestly makes them more distracting to do things. Besides, I like the no payment things (cheap). Might grab one used though. thanks for the input Dave. I'll keep it in mind. Big Ford fan BTW.
I’d stay away from anything ecoboost.
Direct injection has issues and I’ve already replaced both turbos and the ptu in my 2012 flex.
It’s got 51,000 rounds on it. Should have just stick with the NA motor. Way less problems as these turbocharged fords have been causing issues in ever car they slap them in
4.6 liter has other problems to worry about.Plastic intake manifold cost me a lot of money.I also heard that the spark plugs holes don't have enough threads to keep them in the heads.
J L intake manifolds for 4.6 2v can be had for under $300 and they should last well over 100k miles with the aluminum crossover update. Plug threads will not be an issue as long as they are not being over tightened. Motor craft coil overs die too but they can be replaced one at a time for under $100. All in all the 4.6 2v is one of the most reliable engines America has ever engineered
Great video, thanks!
Is there anything you can do to prevent this water pump failure, or is it luck of the draw?
No, its a part. Parts will fail, spinning parts especially. Just keep up with your oil maintenance, and drain or flush what systems you can every 75k or so.
i have a cx9 2009 grand touring 8th vin # is A can you please tell me what engine I can replace it with my engine is seized . please
Hello. I have a 60k miles 2011 Ford Fusion sport. Sometimes I can smell coolant in the engine, and I have been adding some coolant (not much, like 1/2 gallon over 1 year 6.5k miles). I changed the oil a month ago and didn't see any milkshake. There is no steam coming out from the rear. What else should I be looking for? Thanks! I really appreciate this video.