I don’t know what your future plans are for the 3.8…but here’s my suggestion. Head down to Home Depot and pick up a 2-1/2” or 3” rubber plumbing cap. Slap it over of the existing throttle body on your ‘blank supercharger. Then take a 4” hole saw and a drill+ tap to your block off plate, and install a 104mm throttle body, connect the turbo and let the little 3.8 eat! 😁 Love this series and most everything you do on your channel. Cheers
For a turbo car the short runner is the way to go. Too many of cars can't hook in the first place so less torque more hp is ideal. Very cool test pulling the plate off the M90. It is well known the blower inlet and TB are restrictive. Many swap to a northstar or LS1 throttle body. I would like to see a comparison using one of those and a blended inlet VS open plate.
I'm guessing since Rich is nearing the end of this 3.8L V-6 build series, he should soon start on a "other guys" 3.8L V-6 build series... Namely: The Ford 3.8L V-6 (Which also came stroked to 4.2L, and was found in the F-150 & Mercury Monterey mini-van) and the Chrysler 3.8L V-6. (Found in the 2007-2011 Jeep Wrangler JK, 1991-1993 Chrysler New Yorker and Chrysler Imperial, 1994-2010 Mopar mini-vans of all divisions and the 2009-2010 Volkswagen Routan) Seeing what was made for those two in the aftermarket, and how the factory Jeep version made 215-hp/245-tq N/A 2001-2007, it should be interesting...! =;D
That was crazy, can't get any less restricted than that one with blower snout block off plate removed. Richard, you are doing great. Keep at it. I'm really enjoying all the madness with the Buick 3800. 😀👍
I'm still hankerin' for mo' cam, mo' boost, and Eric Weingartner's heads. That would be mo' betterer. It'll make 863.3 hp at 21 lbs of boost. At 21.1 lbs., it throws its guts on the floor. That's my guess.
Richard, thanks for this test, it was interesting. Removing the S/C back plate to test air flow demand was genius! Unfortunately, not so easy to do in other applications.
ID like to see a test done with no intake manifold at all. Injectors pointed straight at the ports. We all know how it would affect the RPM band. But would be really cool to see what type of rig you come up with Richard
Something else besides additional air flow had to be going on with the gutted blower manifold with the plate removed. The horsepower gain at 3200rpm was almost identical to the horsepower gain at 6200rpm.
This is the most informative video I have seen with dyno proof of the mods. While the results are what I would expect, the dyno tells it like it really is! But what many people fail to realize is, how often do you buzz up to 5500 plus RPM? Most people spend 99.9% of their time under 5K, and that is where they need the power, so changing parts to have more power at levels of RPM they never use seems counterproductive. If you are building a strictly for race level car, then the mods at 5500 RPM make sense.
Still waiting on the log turbo manifold test versus the long tube header test to see if there is a big change in the power curves. Of course for this to be a decent comparison it needs to be manifolds of equal flow and I know that makes it tricky to do.
I would like to see a cam comparison for turbo. Everything identical minus lobe seperation on whatever engine. Just to see what changes for more or less lobe seperation.
Don't wanna flog a dead horse but my 2 cents on the nitrous debacle....1centavo DON'T KILL THE MESSENGER ! Especially the one that's kind enough to share his vast knowledge with you , like a certain Ninja we know , 1 cent more.... Richard , I have learned over the years that some "Men" are unable to engage in a Man to Man conversation because said conversation is always a Man short and they must resort to more juvenile tactics . I would like to sincerely thank you for sharing the wealth .......
This is info I've been wanting to see for frickin years man! Great info! I'm surprised how well the HV3 insert did. Also surprised how much the throttle body was a restriction too. I'm definitely going to have to start to do some more digging
Long runner aluminum intake for the turbo test. It has a great mid-range torque bulge. The short runner ZZP insert basically rotated the torque curve on the composite intake counterclockwise at 5000 rpm. On the aluminum intake, it rotated the torque curve counterclockwise at 5500 rpm. On the composite intake the low rpm/high rpm tradeoff may be worthwhile if you want maximum peak power. But on the aluminum intake, I don't think the tradeoff would be worthwhile. What were the average power outputs from ~3500-6300 for each setup?
Like to see other v6's. More specific the 3.6 pentastar and or the older what was it, 3.5 in the challengers before the pentastar came out? I know some people are making 4.3 strokers out of that motor so would be interesting to compare too the 4.3 vortec
This is exactly what I am busy with my Toyota 3UZ twin turbo. Can you please do this same test with the turbo. I understand that the result will be same but I am interested how much torque will be lost at lower rpm. I am trying to get the torque less at lower rpm because the sub assembly is std. At this stage we have 700nm at 4000 rpm with minimum boost (0.6 bar) at the wheels. We are convinced that the sub will not handle this. Thanks for the channel. Philip
I modified the stock long Ruben rose to smooth out the hard corners and a few other things I’d be curious to see what it actually did. Idk if it did much or not
Hi Richard, I’ve learnt a lot watching your videos. I’m in Tasmania Australia and have a 1985 Hiace van daily driver with our Holden version of your Buick 3800 v6 and a turbo 700 with 3.58:1 diff. It’s a work van and I want to give it a bit more oomph, I’m looking at doing a cheap eBay turbo setup, low Mount next to the transmission with a water to air intercooler. My question is, what turbo and A.R. Would you recommend to give it minimum lag and good torque? 1:06 I’m not too worried about the top end, it will probably never hit the redline. Just want a good reliable setup that will pull a load well and not be too over the top. Would you recommend an external waste gate ? Or do you think internal will suffice? Thanks heaps in advance. Cheers, Andrew 👍
trying to understand how you went about running the open block off plate without scrambling your fuel trims. Looks like a massive amount of unmetered air...
Im planning on doin a turbo setup on a 99 Camaro with the 3800 motor. Im planning on doing the ported heads and ls6 beehive springs and keep the stock intake. What tune on the holley ho system did you use? I see a lot of people are having drivability issues that are tune related. Its going to ve a daily driver with the aim of 500hp....
@@richardholdener1727 with stock injectors and fuel pressure? I've never used a Holley HP set up, so I'm curious as to the process of tuning it. Thanks
Richard, im currently rebuilding an lm7 for a turbo build. Forged 10.2:1 pistons, forged rods, balanced, stock crank, stock 862’s with a cleanup mill and valve job. Summit stage 2 turbo cam. Wondering if you ever are worried about piston to cylinder wall clearance in a turbo situation? I know ring gap is important, but with these motors barely wearing the cylinders, should i be concerned with pisto/wall clearance? Steve
Dude, who cares about the 3.8 except for the fiero guys.... Every vid for the past month has been the same shit. Move on. Hell build that 2.2 shelby you have, at least its something different.
Who doesn't like a good 3800? There's a good 40 ls videos , 20 5.0 ford videos. I mean hell he's probably uploaded the same amount of videos for the 3800. As you have uploaded for a sbc build and you haven't even got it together yet . And you'll be on of 200 people on CZcams showing off the internals of a sbc. These have been running 10's and 11's for 25 years with only three real aftermarket companies supporting them world wide. They're a cult motor that a lot of people talk smack about it until one that's done right, blows there doors off. I personally enjoyed them and so did a lot of people. And hey! Guess what? Don't own a fiero...
@@hayden6056Yes, the 3800 vids are cool. Richard also has some actual real world personal hands-on experience with Fjords, Honders, Chebbolays, and a least one Suzuki something or other. He recently bought a Chrysler car shaped like one of the old Big Mac styrofoam containers too (anybody remember the McDLT? Hot on one side and cold on the other?). And then there's all those Cadillac, Buick, and Mopar videos. I get non-stop updates about new videos and yadda yadda yadda. I think he has AADHD (automotive attention deficit and hyperactive disorder). Word is that it's being treated with raspberry lemon drops and something from the blue jug in a red solo cup.
I don’t know what your future plans are for the 3.8…but here’s my suggestion.
Head down to Home Depot and pick up a 2-1/2” or 3” rubber plumbing cap. Slap it over of the existing throttle body on your ‘blank supercharger. Then take a 4” hole saw and a drill+ tap to your block off plate, and install a 104mm throttle body, connect the turbo and let the little 3.8 eat! 😁
Love this series and most everything you do on your channel.
Cheers
Should have tried the f body 3800 intake
For my driver cutlass I think that I'll keep my long runner intake because I am almost never at 5000 rpm
For a turbo car the short runner is the way to go. Too many of cars can't hook in the first place so less torque more hp is ideal. Very cool test pulling the plate off the M90. It is well known the blower inlet and TB are restrictive. Many swap to a northstar or LS1 throttle body. I would like to see a comparison using one of those and a blended inlet VS open plate.
I'm guessing since Rich is nearing the end of this 3.8L V-6 build series, he should soon start on a "other guys" 3.8L V-6 build series... Namely: The Ford 3.8L V-6 (Which also came stroked to 4.2L, and was found in the F-150 & Mercury Monterey mini-van) and the Chrysler 3.8L V-6. (Found in the 2007-2011 Jeep Wrangler JK, 1991-1993 Chrysler New Yorker and Chrysler Imperial, 1994-2010 Mopar mini-vans of all divisions and the 2009-2010 Volkswagen Routan) Seeing what was made for those two in the aftermarket, and how the factory Jeep version made 215-hp/245-tq N/A 2001-2007, it should be interesting...! =;D
That was crazy, can't get any less restricted than that one with blower snout block off plate removed.
Richard, you are doing great. Keep at it.
I'm really enjoying all the madness with the Buick 3800. 😀👍
Thanks 👍
I'm still hankerin' for mo' cam, mo' boost, and Eric Weingartner's heads. That would be mo' betterer. It'll make 863.3 hp at 21 lbs of boost. At 21.1 lbs., it throws its guts on the floor. That's my guess.
Richard, thanks for this test, it was interesting.
Removing the S/C back plate to test air flow demand was genius!
Unfortunately, not so easy to do in other applications.
Here Richard I feel the f body intake need a seat at the table I no they are hard to find but I feel they are worth it
That engine sounds like an angry duck. 😛
ID like to see a test done with no intake manifold at all. Injectors pointed straight at the ports. We all know how it would affect the RPM band. But would be really cool to see what type of rig you come up with Richard
Something else besides additional air flow had to be going on with the gutted blower manifold with the plate removed. The horsepower gain at 3200rpm was almost identical to the horsepower gain at 6200rpm.
AGREED
Still no f body intake?
This is the most informative video I have seen with dyno proof of the mods.
While the results are what I would expect, the dyno tells it like it really is!
But what many people fail to realize is, how often do you buzz up to 5500 plus RPM?
Most people spend 99.9% of their time under 5K, and that is where they need the power, so changing parts to have more power at levels of RPM they never use seems counterproductive.
If you are building a strictly for race level car, then the mods at 5500 RPM make sense.
I totally enjoy all of your content as you show all types of builds. Exactly what people need to know. Awesome content Richard from Australia.😎👏🤜🤛🤟💯
Still waiting on the log turbo manifold test versus the long tube header test to see if there is a big change in the power curves. Of course for this to be a decent comparison it needs to be manifolds of equal flow and I know that makes it tricky to do.
EQUAL FLOW?
@@richardholdener1727 …. Yep, 220 or 221. Whatever it takes 🇺🇸
I pulled the runner inserts out of my 3800 N/A intake and ran it like that. It worked well with boost
I would like to see a cam comparison for turbo. Everything identical minus lobe seperation on whatever engine. Just to see what changes for more or less lobe seperation.
Don't wanna flog a dead horse but my 2 cents on the nitrous debacle....1centavo DON'T KILL THE MESSENGER ! Especially the one that's kind enough to share his vast knowledge with you , like a certain Ninja we know , 1 cent more.... Richard , I have learned over the years that some "Men" are unable to engage in a Man to Man conversation because said conversation is always a Man short and they must resort to more juvenile tactics . I would like to sincerely thank you for sharing the wealth .......
This is info I've been wanting to see for frickin years man! Great info! I'm surprised how well the HV3 insert did. Also surprised how much the throttle body was a restriction too.
I'm definitely going to have to start to do some more digging
Very Nice! Looking forward to the next segment
Great info!!! Would be nice to revisit this test to compare the NA F body 3800 upper/lower intake which should be a direct bolt on swap.
should be similar-but I wanted to include that
@@richardholdener1727 The data would be interesting for some of us building a turbo 3800 F body
i have fbody intake manifolds along with manifolds off a holden vy "ecotec" 3800 that could be lent
Long runner aluminum intake for the turbo test. It has a great mid-range torque bulge.
The short runner ZZP insert basically rotated the torque curve on the composite intake counterclockwise at 5000 rpm.
On the aluminum intake, it rotated the torque curve counterclockwise at 5500 rpm.
On the composite intake the low rpm/high rpm tradeoff may be worthwhile if you want maximum peak power. But on the aluminum intake, I don't think the tradeoff would be worthwhile.
What were the average power outputs from ~3500-6300 for each setup?
Love this stuff Richard.. We are right there with the engineers. It is obvious they too know what is going on in airflow
Good Stuff 👍
Now I'm super curious about opening the TB side on a blown version
It's not about the length of your runner it's the tune of the boom.. sound boom
Like to see other v6's. More specific the 3.6 pentastar and or the older what was it, 3.5 in the challengers before the pentastar came out? I know some people are making 4.3 strokers out of that motor so would be interesting to compare too the 4.3 vortec
Seventeen different kinds of awesome!
Yes, I can like my own comment.
How about radising the NA intake ports on the manifold it self? you could do it pretty easy with a router and a carbide round over bit with a bearing.
This is exactly what I am busy with my Toyota 3UZ twin turbo.
Can you please do this same test with the turbo.
I understand that the result will be same but I am interested how much torque will be lost at lower rpm.
I am trying to get the torque less at lower rpm because the sub assembly is std.
At this stage we have 700nm at 4000 rpm with minimum boost (0.6 bar) at the wheels.
We are convinced that the sub will not handle this.
Thanks for the channel.
Philip
THE NA CURVE IS THE SAME AS BOOSTED CURVE (MINUS THE RESPONSE RATE)
I modified the stock long Ruben rose to smooth out the hard corners and a few other things I’d be curious to see what it actually did. Idk if it did much or not
3.4 LQ1 chevy
Hi Richard, I’ve learnt a lot watching your videos. I’m in Tasmania Australia and have a 1985 Hiace van daily driver with our Holden version of your Buick 3800 v6 and a turbo 700 with 3.58:1 diff. It’s a work van and I want to give it a bit more oomph, I’m looking at doing a cheap eBay turbo setup, low Mount next to the transmission with a water to air intercooler.
My question is, what turbo and A.R. Would you recommend to give it minimum lag and good torque? 1:06 I’m not too worried about the top end, it will probably never hit the redline.
Just want a good reliable setup that will pull a load well and not be too over the top.
Would you recommend an external waste gate ? Or do you think internal will suffice?
Thanks heaps in advance.
Cheers, Andrew 👍
gt3076-you might be able to get away with an internal gate on a low hp/boost application
@@richardholdener1727 thanks Richard 🙏👍
I was almost here first
trying to understand how you went about running the open block off plate without scrambling your fuel trims. Looks like a massive amount of unmetered air...
THERE ARE NO FUEL TRIMS
Im planning on doin a turbo setup on a 99 Camaro with the 3800 motor. Im planning on doing the ported heads and ls6 beehive springs and keep the stock intake. What tune on the holley ho system did you use? I see a lot of people are having drivability issues that are tune related. Its going to ve a daily driver with the aim of 500hp....
I tuned the 3800 motor with the holley hp
@@richardholdener1727 with stock injectors and fuel pressure? I've never used a Holley HP set up, so I'm curious as to the process of tuning it. Thanks
we installed injectors sized for our power level, but stock fuel pressure can be used
Personally I blame squirrels
Squirrel. The oher white meat.
Hello! Richard. Any winners in last nights HP guess, Contest?
Hey I got a crazy question boss. If I have the new 4.3 v6 2014 and up could you use a 3.8 v6 crank to de stroke the motor?
nope-different engine family
@@richardholdener1727 thank you for the response. I love your channel. That's what I thought
Richard, did you log AFR when the supercharger plate was removed? Any substantial change?
Keep'em coming. 👍
Anyway to make the old 3.8l sfi intake work? Those were like a mini ram or LT1 intake.
What boost controller do you recommend?
Richard, im currently rebuilding an lm7 for a turbo build. Forged 10.2:1 pistons, forged rods, balanced, stock crank, stock 862’s with a cleanup mill and valve job. Summit stage 2 turbo cam. Wondering if you ever are worried about piston to cylinder wall clearance in a turbo situation? I know ring gap is important, but with these motors barely wearing the cylinders, should i be concerned with pisto/wall clearance?
Steve
YES ON FORGED PISTONS
Those inserts really arn’t worth the price zzp is selling them for for what you get
Dude, who cares about the 3.8 except for the fiero guys.... Every vid for the past month has been the same shit. Move on. Hell build that 2.2 shelby you have, at least its something different.
Hey chad, nobody cares.
He only does LS stuff.
Who doesn't like a good 3800? There's a good 40 ls videos , 20 5.0 ford videos.
I mean hell he's probably uploaded the same amount of videos for the 3800. As you have uploaded for a sbc build and you haven't even got it together yet . And you'll be on of 200 people on CZcams showing off the internals of a sbc.
These have been running 10's and 11's for 25 years with only three real aftermarket companies supporting them world wide.
They're a cult motor that a lot of people talk smack about it until one that's done right, blows there doors off.
I personally enjoyed them and so did a lot of people. And hey! Guess what? Don't own a fiero...
Dude, who cares about the 2.2 when the 3.8 makes so much better power.
Less is not more.
More is more.
@@hayden6056Yes, the 3800 vids are cool. Richard also has some actual real world personal hands-on experience with Fjords, Honders, Chebbolays, and a least one Suzuki something or other. He recently bought a Chrysler car shaped like one of the old Big Mac styrofoam containers too (anybody remember the McDLT? Hot on one side and cold on the other?). And then there's all those Cadillac, Buick, and Mopar videos. I get non-stop updates about new videos and yadda yadda yadda. I think he has AADHD (automotive attention deficit and hyperactive disorder). Word is that it's being treated with raspberry lemon drops and something from the blue jug in a red solo cup.