How to find Top Dead Centre // Paul Brodie's Shop
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 04. 2022
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"Hang out '" some of us would live under the stairs and eat scraps just to learn what you make look easy but requires much skill. Great job !
Thank you David.
Live under the stairs and eat scraps? That's the life of a true apprentice!
@@rgetso For me, it wasn't quite like that...
âInexperienced machinistâ made me laugh.
A sense of humour is important these days.
Glad to see another Paul and Mitch show uploaded!
For those not brave enough for powered tapping you can just put the tap in the drill press and turn it by hand with gentle pressure on the down feed until itâs bitten in a few turns. Much less scary.
Thanks for commenting :)
Thatâs the way I was shown how to find TDC as an apprentice too many years ago to remember. Top stuff Paul.
Thanks Ian!
Always perfection when you do anything as well as clearly explained. Thanks for the online tutorial.
Thanks Craig.
Thanks you for your time guysđđŠđșâ€ïž
Thanks Angelo.
David A. nailed it, Paul & Mitch! Living under the stairs sounds GREAT! LOL! Your videos are always SO MUCH FUN!
Thank you Tom!
Nice!! The old side valve Dodge 6 engines used a plug in a small hole directly over #6 piston and you used a proprietry depth gauge to do the same job. Thanks Paul.
Good Morning
Starting the day with a nice cup of coffee, you two and life is great.
Have a great day
Thank you Doran.
If you feel the need to use a torque wrench, pull the spark plug, stuff some rope in the hole and jamb the piston against it.
Works for chain saws.
Cheers
Do chainsaws have valves above the piston?
@@paulbrodie No, but they do have flywheels that need to be torqued. Rope is a common method to lock the reciprocating components.
Paul havenât seen this method in 40 years. I attended a Harley Davidson engine school back in 1978.
Sean, am I bringing back memories?
The easiest way to fit a Cub ignition is to spot face the crankcase, and put in threads for pillar bolts, which the stator can be mounted to. There needs to be some degree of movement on the mountings, so the stator can be moved slightly to get the air gap correct.
Next establish the TDC position, using a piston stop, a fixed timing mark, and temporary marks on the rotor. Then, when the motor is ready to run, check the timing with a strobe light, that has an advance feature, so the TDC mark can be used to time the engine.
There are other ways to do these jobs, but the above is very effective and is a lot less time-consuming than most other methods.
brilliant episode !! loved it, and Mitch`s arrow graphics were
deadly accurate too, on the money!! đđđ
Thanks William. I liked those arrows too!
Foot pedal on the drill press sounds like a great addition. Iâll have to add one to mine. Or maybe have it controlled with Siri âHey Siri, turn drill press on.â âHey Siri, turn drill press off QUICK!â âHey Siri, order a new tap.â
Foot pedal is great. I think I paid $200 many years ago. Thanks for watching!
Brilliant as always...
Thanks Brian.
"He was spotted last week inside a hubcap." That was funny.
Did you watch the Oil Lines video?
It is a sign of a good fabricator when you can fix or hide your mistakes, enjoyed it.
Thanks Gordon. I do have a lot of experience fixing my own mistakes!
always thought one had to go only in one direction to time or find TDC, because of the play in he chain...
also, when I need to time an engine precisely (which may or may not be neede on your engine), I don't measure TDC itself, rather a given amount (say 1 or 2mm) before and after TDC via a precision dial gauge, then TDC is in the middle of these 2 angles (this is because the piston moves slower at TDC, so the angular sensitivity of the measure, hence precision, is lowest)
Play in the chain has nothing to do with TDC. You have a flywheel, a connecting rod, and a piston. There is no chain involved. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@paulbrodie not the "links" chain (true, kind of misleading here with an actual transmission chain next to it) rather the "mechanical chain" linking the crank to the rod to the piston etc. (when timing valves as well) if one goes always it the same direction the tolerances are zeroed by contact (just like when the engine is operating), when changing direction the contact is made elsewhere...
@@user-oj4xh8cg2l I have never heard a connecting rod referred to as a Mechanical Chain...
@@paulbrodie I guess this generic use of "chain" is more common here than in America... it's been a while since I've freshened up my English with native speakers.
Great video, I like your tap wrench, looks high quality!
Thanks William đ got it from my father many years ago.
Thank you Paul.
It's Saturday, late night and I'm still working... I'm alone in the silence of an empty, old building to do renovation
Doing extra work for extra money because I need it.
I just bought a tig welder a month ago, now I'm collecting the money for an Argon bottle. Looks stupid, I know, but it is the only way in order to be "allowed" to spend the money for "extra" stuff đ. And Argon is not cheap here.
Just to say that I really needed a break, and your video has been really refreshing đđ€. Thank you, as always, keep up the great work.
It takes time and energy to setup a shop. But don't give up! There is a power in being able to make and create stuff, and one day it will all be worth it. Thanks for liking our videos!
Nice work. Watch that chuck key.
Thanks, I will.
Very informative video content.
Thanks Carl.
Good one
Thank you! Cheers!
Excellent skills Paul
Cheers Chris
Hi Chris, thanks!
I was enjoying the series on the Tiger Cub, but havenât seen anything in a few months. Is all OK? I was looking forward to seeing it run!
Superb
Thank you Richard.
Thanks Paul... another of your playlists binge-watched
I'm a bit surprised our paths haven't crossed, or perhaps they actually have - I am a former WMRRA Formula 3 champion (*OMMRA too, but that was, I think, Ultra-Lightweight Superbike *which I always felt was an oxymoron), I was a WMMRA tech inspector, WMMRA novice school instructor, and a Honda Pro motorcycle tech in the Pacific Northwest **Shout out to Millar Farewell! ;)
Hey Millar! Yes, we have both spent a lot of time at race tracks, and our paths have probably crossed at some point in time. I do miss the track and that whole scene, but times have changed and the years are going by. Congrats on all of your achievements! If you're ever in Langley you are welcome to stop by my shop! đ
@@paulbrodie It's ironic, because the one big thing I'm learning watching all your videos is... "we're over the hill" - though guys like Greg Froberg, Bruce Lind, or Doug DuBuque (sic?) might take umbrage with such a statement. :P
*Oh, and I'm not Millar... he's a regular commenter, here, and he was one of my instructors at American Honda (*a very good one at that) ;)
I'm Jeff. I'm a loooong ways from the PNW these days, but if I ever do find myself in Langley I'll stop by.
@@trout4bait549 Hi Jeff. I do recognize Bruce Lind. He raced a sidecar for a while and did quite well. I am what I am, and if that's over the hill, so be it... đ€Ł
Always use this dead stop TDC method with the valve train unassembled. Itâs possible in a lot of engines for a valve to hit the stop. I made the mistake, once, many years ago. đŹ
Yes, I'm always very careful with the pressure.
A little tip: If you set the disc to 0° on the first "stop" you can simply divide the reading at the second one by 2, set the disc to that value und you have the 0° mark at TDC automaticly. Basicly what you did, but you don't have to estimate or calculate differences :-)
Yes, that will work too.
Thats not how it works ;-)
* measure it
* calculate it
* measure it again and check if the calculation based of the measurement is correct. These settings can be very critical high compression bad fuel whatever its useless to save 1 minute of time for this job.
You always rotate the engine at least one more time after change the valve clearance and measure again didnt you?
â@@10zoll It is in fact, how it works. Why shouldn't it? You can check for same readings on both sides afterwards in both cases, mine just makes calculating a little easier to begin with. If there is still any difference, it will be very little and easy to fix. I think you just didn't get what I was going for.
@@andreassiegler2238 sorry i am german and some germans are very meticulous. I do exactly knew what you re going for.
Eg "i" never would turn the degree wheel oposite to the engine rotation like paul did here i would always turn the wheel in that direction the piston is blocked because i am german and i want to limit every minor source of error ;-) btw: i didnt mention that most of the engines started life on my workbench have a compreesion ratio + 13:1 and these "cheap" errors can ruin a very expensive engine and thats just not worth to risk that.
@@10zoll Well, that makes two of us!
But still to me it makes absolutely no difference at all, which way one would turn the degree wheel, as long as it's on the crankshaft and not the cams or anything alike. When it comes to the ignition timing, you have to turn the engine in its running direction of course. Or maybe I'm not getting you?!
A tap-o-matic tapping head for your drill press would make power tapping in the drill press a lot easier! As often as you use it, it might be a worthwhile investment!
I have a tapping head that fits in my milling machine. I do use it if I have a LOT of holes to tap. For just a few holes it does not make sense time-wise. Thanks.
Never ever leave the chuck key-in the chuck. They hurt you and the lath!
Thanks for the safety tip. đ
Thanks Paul, that made me think... but I reckon youâve got a good, reliable, method for TDC there. Les in UK
Thanks Les. I have used that method many, many times and it works well.
Obviously relieved after shis was achieved.đ
That was intimidatingly complicated but, a great learning video. Now all I have to do to really "get it", is watch it a couple more times!
Thanks for watching.
It's a lot more 'fun' to degree in camshafts when you have to modify the cam drive. Chain drive is usually pretty easy but gear drive a lot more complicated if manufacturer or aftermarket isn't available (or just too damn expensive)
Lol. I find myself re watching the older videos a lot. I find thereâs always some small detail or move done that I miss. All the tips and tricks, plus the stuff he doesnât even talk about but shows is crazy useful.
Paul, I too use a foot pedal on my drill press but I use a momentary switch type. The click on- click off type are too scary for me. I know i know, safety second.......You're a brave man!
I say Safety Third. First is looking good, Second is going fast, Safety Third.
@@paulbrodie right, got it, carry on! đđ
Good... job.. sir
Thank you Vijay đ
Just find TDC BOLT THE DISC TO THE CRANK OF YOU GO. A BIT OVER THE TOP đ§
Sickkkkk
Exactly.
That long threaded spark plug that you shave down and used as a piston stopper or top dead center finder it should never be substituted for a dial indicator. in this type of precision work.in any event. I liked the meticulous work that you do. That's why I give you the likes and the subscription to this channel
Moris, thanks for watching and commenting.
Johnny Cash would be impressed with all of the âadaptersâ
Great method, in the past I have used a dial indicator, your method should be much more accurate, thanks. đ
Thank you.
I have mixed feelings about Anchorlube- pretty good for slow ops but tends to fling and make a mess on faster ones eg drilling. Will have to try it more for tapping I suppose...
I never use Anchorlube for drilling or machining. Only tapping.
Tap drill is 4.2mm. You knew that, right? No, but I have the chart on my wall. đ
I thought everybody knew that!
Pretty cool Paul, I think it's a bit above my pay grade though! lol
Thanks Jarno.
Did you mean counterbore rather than countersink for the capheads. Nice vid
Stephen, you are 100% correct. I watched the video for the first time this morning, and realized I had called them the wrong name. No one to blame but me. I will get it right next time...
@@paulbrodie no problem only the engineering geeks would notice. Keep up the good work.
đđ
How come you don't drill it all the way and tap it when it's already in the rotary table? It would save you a bit of time I guess! Also, proud that I'm one of the people who spotted Mitch! Keep up the awesome work and the videos, loving both!
Which part of the video are you referring to? I'm glad you spotted the elusive Mitch.
So how and when did You measure how far down into the cylinder the piston stop pin was? I use this method too, but i always make sure i go down equal amount with the piston stop pin, every time!
The piston stop pin. always goes down the same amount because I bottom out the thread each time.
6:18 :D
Iâd like to know 2 things
1) whatâs making the odd background noisesâŠ. Tasmanian devil?
2) why not just use a dial gauge to find tdc?
Keep up the good work lads
I believe Paul has some pet peacocks which is what you are hearing in the background.
1 its a peacock (maybe this peacock is called mitch *scnr*)
2 pure logic whereever that bolt hits the piston it always hits the piston.
It doesnt matter if from one side or the other so the gauge isnt on the piston its on the Crankshaft.
1) maybe a đœ đ
Surely this is more accurate. (Edit) my wife called me for dinner as I was typing, so a bit more... surely with the crankshaft angles involved, this method is more accurate that a dial gauge âestimatingâ where TDC might be. This one divides between the same minus and plus angle of crank rotation. The Dial gauge could well be 10 degrees out as the piston sweeps over the top.. Les in UK
@@leslieaustin151 Naa thats wrong...
This method is more Simple and less buggy.
Its not the method its the Operator that needs to be accurate ;-)
You always have to measure both ways when the piston is high - when (in both directions) is the piston moving down. doesnt matter if via static stop (bolt) ot via a dial gauge.
Paul, use different tool settings for the different holes. No writing needed. E.g. T1 is hole 1, etc. Thank you! All the best, Job
Yes, I know my DRO can do that, but the manual is so useless I never figured it out. True confessions.
@@paulbrodie Paul, hit the "center" button right under the digit display on the left. Then enter a number from zero to nine and confirm with the "load" key. Done. The number you choose is displayed and shows you the tool or datum you are working from. I hope this makes sense to you. Especially on a lathe with a quick change tool post it is really handy. Best, Job
@@jobkneppers Thanks, I will give it a shot.
I've always done it that way.
But why every time turn out the stopper?
You can have half a turn in the other direction to the other stop.
It's longer the other way. You're right. I don't have to take out the stopper.
A shadowy figure in a hub cap wasn't evidence of Mitch being "human". Humanoid robot, that's our guess. C'mon, Paul. We know you made a robot. Also, if I had your shop and talent, my entire house would be made of machined parts.
It all adds to mystique, that's for sure!
Very Skookum Degree wheel mount. Sure beats double sided tape. But I don't know anybody who would use double sided tape?
It needs to be Skookum. I remember once it was not Skookum, I started the engine, the degree wheel fell off, and was spinning quite fast when it hit the concrete floor. Not good!
Use your smartphone camera instead of the DRO camera. I always remember it after the fact.
My DRO has no camera. Are we talking about the same thing?
@@paulbrodie , no. I meant for you to take a pic instead of writing down all the coordinates.
Note to self: proofread before hitting âsend.â
Peacock does not approve of the impact wrench
Peacock responds to any noises in the neighbourhood.
Nice video but we all know the Real TDC is behind the camera.
This is true. Thanks for watching.
czcams.com/video/oNKtp1Y18QQ/video.html for the mysterious Mitch in a Hubcab.
What is the purpose of finding top dead center
Very important for checking ignition timing, and cam timing.
Hello from Ukraine
Greetings Ukraine!
Inexpierienced machinist, hahađ€Ł
A weak attempt at humour.
Ohh c'mon where's the other tiger cub episodes you cant just stop after getting everyone hooked. i used to climb and play over cubs in the garden when i was a little lad they were my climbing frames. and sit on them and pretend to ride them open roads lol
We didn't just "stop". I am in hospital with bone cancer, so you will need a little patience while I pull through. It will all happen in due time đ
@@paulbrodie OHH no I'm so sorry to hear that mate. I hope and wish you a speedy recovery. Bugger do I feel bad now. I look forward to your tiger tinkering but all in good time so rest yourself and take it easy. all the best Chris
@@chrislewis4830 Thanks Chris. I am focussed on getting healthy đ
You wouldn't have this problem if you started using electric motors.... đ
Watch more of Paul's videos. He has a series from his electric bike build.
I have an electric bike. It caught fire. That is a different set of problems.
Then it wouldn't be a Cub...!
@@chrisallen9154 - I know, I've seen it a bunch of times.... We've already had a few "conversations" about electric bikes, I'm sure he knows I'm just messing around w/ him. LoL
@@paulbrodie - Yeah I remember you saying about that before but I'm an electric guy so naturally I always want to make my favorite people I watch on CZcams come over to the electric.... LoL
It's all witchcraft to me!!!!!!!!!!!
It is a bit technical, but I assure you, no witchcraft :)
Paul havenât seen this method in 40 years. I attended a Harley Davidson engine school back in 1978.
MMI grad, all programs 2012, they still teach it in screaming eagle and clinic 9 dyno class