Busting The Engine Break In Myth | MC Garage
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2018
- How to break-in a new engine is an extremely contentious topic. In this video from the MC Garage we bust the engine break-in myth by building up two engines, breaking them in using drastically different methods, and then tearing them down and comparing the components at the heart of the discussion.
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Getting a new motorcycle is an exciting prospect, but once you fire it up for the first time you’re left with what many deem a great responsibility: breaking in that new engine. What is engine break-in? Fresh from-the-factory parts appear smooth, but they actually have microscopically rough surfaces that need to rub against their counterparts and bed in, and that happens during those first miles of use. Once the components are polished smooth and broken in, friction is reduced, sealing is improved, and you’re ensured good power, fuel economy, and reliability. There are a lot of sliding and rotating parts within an engine, but what everyone gets riled up about when discussing engine break-in is the seal between the piston rings and cylinder walls. And rightfully so. Ring seal is the key condition that’s going to affect performance and longevity, so it’s worth thinking about.
How Should You Break In A New Motorcycle Engine?
What’s the best way to get a good seal on those piston rings? If you follow the break-in procedure outlined in your owner’s manual, it’ll recommend a 600, 1000, or even a 1500-mile process wherein you limit throttle and revs and constantly vary the engine speed. At the other end of the spectrum, there are people that say a gentle break-in is a waste of time and not an effective way seal the rings, and that a more condensed and aggressive break-in-some would say brutal-is the way to go.
How We Conducted Our Engine Break-In Test
To answer the question once and for all, in this MC Garage we assembled two identical Honda CB300F motors with fresh top-end parts, broke them in differently, and then compared the results.
The first engine was installed and run in gently as per the manual, which meant painstakingly limiting and varying the throttle and slowly ratcheting up the revs over the course of 1,000 miles. Then we swapped out the babied motor for engine number two. While engine one didn’t kiss redline until that final 1,000th mile, this second engine was given a minute to warm up and then taken right to the limiter and ridden at or near WOT on the highways of SoCal for the entire 1,000 miles. Both engines were initially filled with Bel-Ray semi-synthetic oil, and we changed the fluid and filter at 600 miles as recommended.
After breaking the engines in using drastically different methods, we performed compression and leak-down tests-which is a standard way of checking top-end health-then disassembled, measured, and inspected the internal parts. And the results, well, they might surprise you.
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Engine Break-In Specs
Engine 1, “By The Book Break-In”
Installed at 1,828 miles, removed at 2,861 miles
Break-In Notes: Ridden gently. Didn’t exceed 50% throttle or 5,000 rpm for the first 600 miles, and didn’t exceed 75% throttle or 7,000 rpm until 1,000 miles. Didn’t experience WOT until 1,000 miles was accumulated. Ridden with constantly varying engine speed and load, no easy task on a slow bike in a busy, urban environment! Oil and filter changed at 600 miles.
Piston OD: 2.9910” at install, 2.9910” after 1,000 miles
Cylinder ID: 2.9925” at install, 2.9930” after 1,000 miles
Top Ring End Gap: 0.0130” at install, 0.0145” after 1,000 miles
Compression: 235 psi hot after 1,000 miles
Leak Down: 4% hot after 1,000 miles
Engine 2, “Brutal Break-In”
Installed at 2,861 miles, removed at 3,890 miles
Break-In Notes: Went to WOT within moments of first starting up, and was ridden hard for 1,000 miles. Did everything we’re told not to-lots of throttle and high-speed droning at steady throttle. Oil and filter changed at 600 miles.
Piston OD: 2.9910” at install, 2.9910” after 1,000 miles
Cylinder ID: 2.9925” at install, 2.9930” after 1,000 miles
Top Ring End Gap: 0.0130” at install, 0.0150” after 1,000 miles
Compression: 235 psi hot after 1,000 miles
Leak Down: 4% hot after 1,000 miles
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After 20 plus years as a factory Honda motor cycle tech , at pre delivery inspection and road test , trust me , most new bikes have already seen the upper rev range before the customer gets it .
Yup, I'm aware of that. But just saying so doesn't satisfy anybody. We wanted to do some actual testing to inject some data into the discussion.
What do you scumbags do to them??
@@mareksumguy1887 engines are run in the factory at various rpm's , all manufacturers do this step even the chinese bikes
@@TheHambletonbiker They don't run them hard at the factory; they use light throttle and go through the gears just to make sure everything is mechanically sound. @specialise wasn't talking about that. He was talking about what they do to the bikes on HIS end (after they have left the factory). Thats what i wanted to know.
@@TheHambletonbiker 1. We don't know what throttle position (power level) those engines are run at. 2. Not all manufacturers do this. I'v seen video of Honda factory dyno their CBR1000RR at the end of the assembly line. And they only ran it at low throttle just to make sure there were no obvious problems. Not even half throttle. The engines definitely aren't broken in at the factory. And even then, i don't think they dyno every bike... they batch test them. Like 1 in every 5 or so.
6:09 A third possible reason for long break-in recommendations is that if the manufacturer can convince you to ride gently early on, they are less likely to have to repair anything on warranty.
PMitchell106 yep that makes perfect sense lol. I agree. My uncle has been a professional engine builder for 50 Years. The first thing he does is get sideways pulling out on the street. He says if it hurts it then it wasn’t any good in the first place 😂
Excellent point!!!
@@JohnnyRebKy huu7
this is the real reason.
Well said Pmitchell👌👌👍
Best of luck to you in the future. Sorry to see you leave.
As an old guy that loves riding I want to thank you for being here through the years for all of us on two wheels ! Good luck and come back as a guest when you can.
Wow ... sad for your leaving and injury. Get well and good luck!
Its funny to see your comment here because i follow both of you
@@Druze_Tito sometimes when I’m lonely I will shave one leg so it feels like I’m sleeping with a woman 👱🏼♀️
Let me say this: I inherited a 2001 Yamaha Road Star 1600cc. Way beyond any bike I ever rode before. Because of its age, I had to do the maintenance myself and I didn't know how.
It was when you said you yourself had no formal training - just the maintenance manuals, pretty much - that gave me the courage to take a wrench to the bike.
I have it stripped down now, - I'm restoring it, going broke buying tools, but loving it. - thanks to you.
Best of luck. I wish you well.
-Paul
Broken vehicles, broken houses, two best excuses to buy tools! You got this brother.
Good luck with your rebuild. Hope it goes well. Great opportunity to get in about the bits you don't normally have a lot of access to. Amazing what you learn dismantling and putting back together.
Good man! The best way to learn is to dive in and get hands on. Just take your time, double and triple check things as required and you'll be fine \m/ - Taz.
Hi Paul, thanks for the note. I'm so glad that my own story encouraged you to start wrenching. You'll likely make a few mistakes and screw up a couple of times (like I did!), but you'll learn valuable lessons in the process. Not to mention it's gonna feel great when that Yamaha barks to life again! Good luck on the build, and thanks for watching.
@@hpa101 Hey what are you doing here?. Get back to work! ; )
I think that proper break in is not keeping revs low. Break in is conservatively exploring the entire rev range, slowly working your way to theupper bands. For example, get out on the highway, go 75, but switch between 6,5,4th gears. Then do it at 80. Then at 60. Just focusing on not dogging it out. Also allowing proper heat cycles for start and shutdown. This is what we do with new jet engines and piston motors in most cases. For some jets we go up to slowly work up to 80% rpm, then sustain that for 20 minutes. The next day the jet goes to 100. For our piston airplane motors, most of them need to fly at 2400 rpm, (idle is 800, redline 3500) for 2 hours on the first flight.
In the beginning of this video, I thought to myself; "how can this be so controversial, why hasn't anyone compared methods side by side," and then you did... Thank you 🤘😎
Whassup fellow quad rider🤩😎🤙
@@josantos4543 what up jo 👊
you’re sill here 😎; but it’s your last video here 😢 you’re MC Garage; we will miss you forever. Thanks for all you’re awesome videos.
Thank you Ari for choosing to complete this video despite your accident. Best wishes and recovery, I hope you heal completely. Best of luck for your next projects. Big love
FINALLY someone who put this topic to the test. Thank you.
WOW! The soft-break-in engine impressed me! ALL engines are broken in roughly - first start, from factory, they warm up the engine then do a full dyno run, 1,2,&3rd. Twice! SO - point is, what impressed me the most is that an engine that did not get its proper wide open first start (which is what they did, when they built the motor themselves, no dyno) I was impressed that it seated the rings at all!! :D Different strokes for different folks, I guess :)
I prefer a "proper" break-in, but the southern version of "proper" lol - not rough, but also not gentle, neither - I don't need to hit redline right out the gate, but get on it!! Keep the RPMs varied, downshift a LOT to maximize blow-by protection, and don't be scared of 'er! Do it right & you can really feel the moment that all the parts hook up!! It's like hitting the power band on a 2-Stroke, and your engines will last you forever!
not even close to "every" factory does that. they also don't dyno every engine. that's a waste of everything lol. and they most definitely don't max it out. they normally just cycle thought the gears lightly to see if she's workin.
So much time, effort and expense went into this video - very impressive and a fitting way to go out on a high. The two best moto journos, bikes, cars whatever - just the best. Thanks for all the back-ins :-)
Agreed! I really wanted to get this video out there.
Mr Hmm Go watch this video. czcams.com/video/LiNsEsU8pGs/video.html
Not an impressive test - no where close to scientific. The results actually prove the opposite. The conclusion is totally false.
@@trevorellis1704 Agree. Go watch the video i linked on my previous comment in this conversation. Cheers
Ride it hard right off the bat. Every engine manufacturer runs them on a dyno all the way to full power. Varying rpm and being gentle does nothing. I've been to Detroit Diesel and Caterpillar while I worked at Texaco Research in Glenarm New York . In the 50s this may have been so, but not anymore. C18 going to Full Rated Power shortly after build. czcams.com/video/oz4ICar2XxA/video.html
Now this is dedication! It takes a crazy amount of time to do this video! Thank you:)
Ok, as an engineer (propulsion specialist) my opinion on this is the manufacturer recommends breaking in the engine slowly because the chances of defects in the materials or manufacturing are still there and failing at 3000rpm with destroy the engine but most likely will not kill you, now 13500rpm and 100+ mph, having a piston blow, stoping your rear wheel will most likely kill you. I actually went through something like this, an intake valve seal failed and because i was at low rpm, was able to drive to the shop with no major damage done.
Man you guys really went all out for this video. Major props, heal up my dude!
Get well soon Ari, what can I say, MC Garage won't be the same without you. Thank you for all your tips and the way you were translating it all to us. Hope to see you elsewhere with a lot thicker wallet - and soon. :) Ride safe mate. All the best.
Best wishes on your new adventure Ari, greetings from Mexico!
Get better soon bro, thanks for all of the knowledge you have given us.
What a horrible accident to go through! Glad your okay! Good luck on your future ventures and will miss you as the host of MC garage!
More power to you dude. Your successor is going to have a lot to live up to. You will be missed.
Enjoyed all your vids and explanations about stuff I didn't know. I pray for you to get better soon. Be safe and thanks for everything.
Never knew about the fireworks mishap. Dang dude! Glad you recovered and came back! You are the reason I watch this channel as much as I do. Great host! Cheers!
Sorry to hear about your accident! Good luck with your new ventures. Thanks for the uploads
Ari, one of your best moments on MC Garage was the tire changing video when you joked about throwing the take-off in the river. Good luck on the other coast.
Sir, this was one of the best videos I have seen. I have always wondered about this process, and if the recommended break-in was just the factories wanting you to "take it easy" with the bike during the recommended break-in period. I want to thank you for all the hard work you put into this endeavor; and good luck on a quick healing from your unfortunate accident.
I’m breaking in my new CB650R right now, up to about 100km ridden so far. I was pretty gentle with it for the first 10-20km and then as I got used it it I started riding it similar to how I ride my old bike but just without any WOT and only revving it to like 2/3rds of max rpm at the most. I’m kinda just riding it at medium pace and varying the rpm, gear etc and making sure I don’t lug it at low rpm. Really enjoying it so far and I can’t wait to wind it out to 12,000rpm. Even the taste that I have gotten so far is pretty delicious.
We love you Ari, thank you for everything. 🙌🏼
looks like "the workshop" has some very interesting input on the matter. and he makes sense too.
czcams.com/video/LiNsEsU8pGs/video.html
Very true!
I am sure MC Garage have more understanding of engines than the manufactures do. Right or Right???
@@bobgc1954 "manufacturers"??? what do they know? a bunch of CEO's who want to make money, so they give us the wrong way to break-in our engines so they can make more money from parts :) :) :)
bob cbr
A bunch of CEO’s that lead some pretty big and very talented engineering teams
Stupid comment
Take care Ari...and thanks for all the knowledge..
Heartiest wishes for a very speedy recovery, your videos are best!!!
Ari, I’m gonna miss your excellent informative videos, best of luck in your new venture. Wishing you a speedy recovery from the injury.
Best wishes for your recovery, and your new career
Gonna miss you Ari? thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
good info, get well soon sifu. all the best on your next venture ..
Wow bang whyzul kat sini lah 🤣 idola
私服
CZcamsr yg tak pernah reply
Fantastic fact based content. Just got to MC garage but will watch the rest! Thankyou
Excellent video. Concise and to the point. At this point, three years later, I hope you're fully healed and back to enjoying whatever new ventures you're involved in. Enjoy and stay safe.
You look fine brother. Wear your scars proudly. Keep up the good work and all the best for the future.
Hard to proudly wear a scar that proclaims "I did something stupid." Every year innocent people, children usually, get maimed or killed by idiots with fireworks. It's a shame this happened but his face is a good reminder as to why the use of fireworks should be left only to professionals.
Thanks for another stellar informative video. Glad you are healing. Best!
Thanks for the incredibly comprehensive comparison o break in methods! I'm always in the ride it like your going to camp but nice to know at very least that not doing harm! Cheers and mend well, good luck!
Great to actually hear it from the top! I found a harder break in with BMW twins seemed to give long-term better mpg, performance and less oil use. On the K series, it made no difference, but each could just be the as-built variations of the engine.
Hope recovery goes quickly, looks like it seriously hurt. Good luck in the new venture. I've got so much out of your vids, so thank you.
This guy is my favorite, i probably won't watch this channel upon his departure. Tough break with the firework, i hope it heals up nicely for you. Hope to see you around in something else✌
You analysis at the end about the reasons for a "break-in" period is right on the money - it's in case something comes apart in the early life of the engine. I'll admit that I hadn't considered the engine mapping as a factor or the more modern materials with more advanced metalurgy so that has all added to my understanding. Outstanding video, well done.
Thankyou for all the knowledge you bring forth for the viewers. Without the content I would surely be lost. Buying motorcycle s is the easy part, figuring out how to maintain them is the challenge.
Get well soon. Great videos 👍
*OOF. Sorry to hear man. But dont worry about the scar being unseemly, it'll be barley noticeable after about 6 months, and only be noticeable if your skin ever flushes like when taking a hot shower, working out or if you turn red while drinking. I hope your jaw heals up nicely. You're still beautiful to us so, no worries.*
Im really glad it popped up in my head to look up a proper break in procedure. Buying a new motorcycle had me a little nervous. Thanks!
You are always classy in any situation & an angel of motorcycling advises ! Best wishes to you Brother. I kindly appreciate you, your dedication & Sincerity are Rare.
Thank you Ari for a great last video. All the best with your future ventures. We will miss you.
One of my favorite videos from this channel and from ari. I show this to everyone who rides and has a new bike. My way was to always ride it how you ride normally. My small rule is to let it warm up first and obviously don’t keep banging on redline. You’d be surprised how many people start the bike and ride within 5 seconds.
Good luck and thanks for being with us for all this time.....much love 😊
Great video. Well done. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
These MC garage videos have been my go-to for motorcycle education. Thanks for all if it.
This has always worked for me resulting in long lasting high performing engines. Hard acceleration and the lower gears (1-3) in short bursts is critical for the first 30 miles (rings seating), while letting the revs come down slowly with closed throttle to pull out any break-in particles. Do not lug in higher gears due to the bearings breaking in during the first 600 miles.
After many years of all kinds of crazy, vintage bikes, I today just bought my very first ever brand new motorcycle, an Indian madeTVS 125 Raider, and was shocked to see in the user manual that it wanted me to ride at 50kph for 1000k! Thank you for saving me from this bummer!!
That's is for all the good reviews and motorcycle info and good luck.
Thank you. Been in power sports for 30+ years. Kind of always thought this way, and never broke in anything mildly. 👍
So sorry to hear about your accident hope you're healing well watch all your videos you're great!
Stellar video; just outstanding. Thank you for taking the time and effort!
Good luck with your new adventure. U were awsome at this. Very helpful with info.
I think the video presents some really interesting points regarding engine technology, the fact is that specific design differences are an important consideration. For instance, when I rebuilt my Porsche 914 engine and replaced the cast iron cylinders with nickasil lined aluminum cylinders "ring seating" was no longer a concern and revving to redline wasn't an issue.
Get well soon Ariel!!
Good luck with the new project.
Regards from Oaxaca
México. 👍🍀
Im pretty sure he's fine now. This an old video......
AWESOME WORK AND EFFORT! That was some great info that one can actually use. Thank you! TMF says it so well!
this is one guy who made me like bikes and riding more and more... hope you get better soon... bye and good luck with your future ventures...
Awesome. I've always wondered about engine break in.
Thanks for the painstakingly long process of assembling and disassembling the two engines. Yes I was surprised by the results too. I think the break in periods were a result of older technologies and tolerances. Today's robots make parts within tighter tolerances which help explain your findings. Hope you get well.
Good luck with everything man, thanks for all the great videos!
Cheers for all your vids. It’s been great. All the best to you from down under.
Great video! Whoda thunk? So sorry to hear about your accident. Wishing you a complete and speedy recovery!
Nice, quite informative. Wish you all the best.
Sorry to hear about the accident. Absolute legend videos. Wish you all the best for the next project. Btw great video.. watched all of yours and learnt a lot.
I bet, it will never be the same ever again.. I feel sad mate, will miss you guys.. best of luck for your new adventure.. 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks, and I'll stick to gentle by the book break-ins.
Will really miss you. Your videos have been always so informative for me as a new rider.
Wish you all the best. Get well soon, and good luck on your next steps in life.
And keep riding 🏍🏍🏍
Thks for all the episodes i have enjoyed watching and also have learnt a lot...
Wishing you the best for your new venture ...
Will miss you bro.
Your delivery style and accent is best for auto show imho.
All the best
Been riding for most of my 36 years. I have never bothered breaking in any bike. I just ride them how i normally would. Looks like i was right all along, lol.
The question is: how do you normally ride them? Lol
@@JEFFQUICKLE9 ok kid
Most original owners don't put enough miles on a bike for it to really matter. The most I have put on a bike is 60,000 miles. The next owner might see some issues at 100,000 miles. ;-)
Consistency and proven record worked for you. If it works then why change it? 👍 Ride On! 🏍
I always forget i ride full throttle.
Been following you since you started on FB. Get well soon, and all the best in your future venture.
Great vid! You really put alot of work into this. I found it very informative, thank you
Thanks for the fact base not opinion based video. Great job.
Sad to see you go, I love this channel, learned alot...
Hope your doing great and good luck. Thanks for all your vids.
Man sorry to hear about your accident. You channel is great. Best of luck for a bright future. cheers Rod.
Very nice video. If the hard brake in had more ring wear, it might be due to turning more revolutions in the 1000 miles of riding. Good luck in your venture.
Damn that looks nasty, wish you the best love your videos explaining everything
Great information. Now I know not to sweat it if I happen to open up my new motorcycle a little bit here and there. While in the break in period.
This is so true with all modern day manufactured engines. The manufacturing has become so precise that tolerances are nearly identical from one engine to another, machining has improved so much that parts no longer need to wear in. The only ting that does need to be done correctly is to seat the rings, which is done in the first few miles, or in some case, on the assembly line before the engine is even installed. What DOES need to be properly broken in, not so much on a bike, but in cars and trucks is the transmission and final drive. Ring and pinion do need to be broken in properly of they would get abnormal wear patterns, become noisy and eventually fail. Same goes for manual transmissions, yes kids, they do exist. Overall, I am really glad this video was made, it backs up what I have been saying for years. Just drive it! If it's gonna break, it will break no matter how you drive it from the start. The only exception to this rule would be hand built performance engines that don't use factory parts.
As long as the new guy is not Matt LeBlanc, will stayed subscribed. Good luck in your new adventure.
Don't say that. Chris Evans would be much worse.
They need Lemmy and Spurg from RevZilla!
Thanks mate, and greetings from the Philippines 🇵🇭
I must admit that I was totally unsure on how to break in my brand new KTM 390 Adventure 🥴.
Now I am much more at peace and will just do what needs to be done, focus on riding it safely and getting used to the bikes overall handling without worrying to much and simply, just enjoy my new ride 😉
Good luck to you for the future what ever it may bring 🙏🏼👍
Aba teka
It's been a pleasure watching you work. Good luck with your new job :-)
Get well soon. My sympathies with you. Bless your journey ahead. Just play safe. Dont mess with things that are not safe.
Thank you for making this video. I guess we can trust in modern metallurgy, oil, and tolerances. I wonder if an air cooled engine would yield different results.
The best most presise and complete and unbiased video on the internet right now about engine break in
Thanks bro we really enjoyed every video of yours
THANK YOU ...👌👌
Thanks for your. Videos👍 And good luck with your new adventure
Thanks for being a great host. Best of luck and take care. We will be looking for you on Motor Trend.
What effect did that hunk of foil seal that went into the crankcase @ 4:52 have on engine longevity?
Oh man that’s funny 😆
I hope they had a mesh screen at the bottom of the funnel.
Lmfao that's hilarious.
I had to slow it down to .25× to see that foil! That was a great catch!
Bought used boat that would run 10 mins and die.
Found 2 foil tops in gas tank, after pulling out and cleaning with garden hose.
That's crazy! I feel like I've been lied to my whole life 😂
Sucks about the injury!
This video deserves more likes and view. All that work to compare two motors and breaking em in takes dedication.
Thanks man was worried about this topic , good luck with everything dude
Really enjoyed this video and I'm so glad to see you guys finally put this damn topic to rest. I recently broke in a motorcycle and discussed this topic from my own personal opinions and it was pretty much the same thing that you concluded here. Just ride your bike, use common sense and enjoy the process :)
Agreed. I like his final point of not just the engine breaking in, but the tires, suspension, and you getting used to the bike too. Very good points.
As for the controversy, what I've come across is a lot of 'know-it-alls' who don't have a degree in anything, let alone engineering, spouting their opinions as fact, and calling anyone who differs in opinion, every curse word you've ever heard. Clearly, these are highly intelligent individuals. 🙄
For myself, I look at it this way:
If the manufacturer is recommending the process, and ultimately it's going to be the manufacturer who is responsible for replacing any parts (or the entire engine) if anything fails after following their recommended break in process, why not just follow it? It's only 600 miles.
I bet there's already someone typing the response "but if they can't tell if you broke it in hard, then..."
They can tell. This video talked about there not being any discernable difference in the parts, he didn't say anything about there being burned oil on valves or cylinder heads, which is a dead giveaway for excessive heat and rpm.
To each their own. I'd just much rather know that I'm definitely covered under warranty, than be told "sorry, you didn't follow break-in procedure, and thereby voided your warranty".
@@Jeff-Vader_head_of_catering cool story bud