Azdel vs Luan in RVs - This Will Be A Surprise!
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2023
- One of the biggest fears of RV owners is water intrusion that does significant and costly damage inside their RV. So in this video I will compare the use of luan in the RV walls with Azdel instead. Luan has been used for decades in RV construction, but Azdel is quickly gaining ground with RV manufacturers. So which one is better? Which material is best for water leaks in your RV? The answer will probably surprise you. Most likely it's not what you think!
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Another great video! I don't know how many people I have seen over the years, that pay a small fortune for an RV, and never do any maintenance on it. Within 3 years it is trashed. I just cant see paying that much for something and not taking care of it. Evidently they have more money to waste then I do.
I so agree with you Bob. Just a little regular maintenance done once in a while makes the RV last so much longer and avoids a lot of expensive repairs down the road. But not many do it like they should. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject!
@@jacksonburleson9533 Please how can I reach her?
I think I should try this woman.
I have heard so much good news about her
Very good video and once again, I learned something. As a side note, one could posit that the down side of Azdel construction, since it doesn't show delamination, is that it could cause delayed recognition of water intrusion and a more costlier repair. Obviously, regardless of the material used in the construction of the wall, careful attention to roof maintenance is the key to avoiding these expensive repairs.
That's actually a good point Robert. Some water leaks are stealthy and it's hard to find evidence of them at times before they get out of control. So regular inspection of joints and seams are vital even if you have Azdel in the sidewalls. Thanks for commenting about that!
Thank you for posting very important RV content. This is the info potential and current rv owners need to know.
I'm glad you enjoyed this video. And thanks for the positive comments and feedback!
Another great video. I have heard the buzz words Luan and Azdel both used many times and now I know the difference. Thanks for the info.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
WOW such a nice show, I really like this channel, always learn something new on here, please keep up the good work !!
I'm glad you enjoyed it Carl. Thanks for watching and leaving a nice comment too!
Azdel is not susceptible to powder post beetle infestations which seem to have popped up across a number of manufacturers RVs who use luan over the past few years. While the manufacturers have generally warranted the work it requires a lot of pushing and patience on the owner's part. It is why all things being equal my preference is for Azdel due to it bug resistance and more forgiving nature in regard to water intrusion.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
Love the graphics!! Seeing is everything.
I'm glad the video was helpful. Thanks for watching and leaving a nice comment!
Great information once again. Thanks Don
Glad it was helpful Don. Thanks for your support of this channel!
We visited the RV historic museum in Elkhart recently, and there’s 2 motor homes that were donated that were 30 plus years old and still being used up until the last couple of years that were in good to great condition inside and out, in the summary of each one it was noted that they were stored inside a building when not being used, one owner stated that the exterior was waxed every year before winter storage, the number one priority for myself of buying another RV will be indoor storage while not being used!
That's a great idea Marty. The sun's UV rays and the elements in general definitely take a toll on RVs that spend a lot of their time outdoors. Thanks for watching!
What about outside usage if it is used full-time? (rhetorical) Clearly the key is maintenance regardless of how an RV is stored or used.
@@doctorkayak Well in that case it would require extra maintenance which would include caulking windows and refinishing roof membrane, covering tires while not traveling, most RV's are not built for 4 season/fulltime RVing, even with a good maintenance plan the RV life will be reduced!
Just had this pop up, and it answered a number of questions I had. Considering that many, if not all RVs have Luan in their roofs, I wonder if Azdel would be a better choice up top as well. You still have to check joints & stuff, but it might help hold things together.
Matt over on Matt's RV like to say that with Azdel your walls wont de-laminate, and I sit there thinking, well....not as soon. Nothing is forever, especially on something as abused as an RV. So, I agree. The more inorganic foundation products the better.
Not trying to throw shade Matt's way, but even RV walls with Azdel can still delaminate. But just not from water penetration, which is the number one cause of delam. And the main point is that if an RV owner stays up with their joint and seam maintenance, the inside construction materials (Azdel or Luan) don't really matter that much. It only matters when water penetration takes place. Thanks for posting your thoughts here!
Very good points!
I'm glad you enjoyed it Ken. Thanks for watching!
Thank you! Fantastic video. Always wondered about this. Would love a video like this comparing the different roof types...tpo, fiberglass, etc.
Great suggestion! I'll see what I can do .... :-)
Easy video ....they are all junk you just get lucky from time to time and they do it right on accident. If you saw some of these 5th wheel roofs youd cringe ! I redid i one with tpo over 1/8 wood that was glued to a 5 inch thick foam block they call a roof but it had zero studs
My bigger interest in Azdel is the reduction of off gassing. Water resistance is an additional benefit.
Bought an older 5er that’s got some delamination on the front cap and rear wall, some soft spots on the interior walls to. Might try seeing if I can purchase azdel with 8’ width and reskin the interior and exterior walls. Block foam insulation and aluminum studs. Should be easy enough and be completely rot free
I'm not sure that applying Azdel after delamination is going to work well Mitchel, but I would be interested to hear how it goes for you. Please let me know how it turns out. And thanks for watching the video!
Another excellent video. I’ve seen some delaminated RV’s that didn’t seem to have water damage. Here temps can swing from above 110 down to zero, plus flexing around, I wonder if the adhesive just broke down. I don’t see Azdel as a magic bullet, but I think it may have advantages. As you said, keeping up on seals is vital, azdel or luan. Storing with a cover or carport IMHO would make a much bigger difference in how an RV holds up than what kind of backing is behind the filon.
Hi Jeff. Some people say that Azdel cannot delaminate. But that isn't really true. As you observed, it can separate from the adhesive that bonds it to the wall. Of course, it doesn't happen very often. But it is possible. Thanks for sharing your experience in the comments here!
@@RVInspectionAndCare Hey thanks for creating such excellent content.
It is interesting to stroll through RV salvage. Some ended life due to a collision, or a fire. Many from neglected seals and water intrusion. Some that appeared reasonably kept, though, it appears wide spread delamination was the problem that couldn’t be repaired that totaled the unit.
Someone posted that an RV is like an ice cream cone- if you are careful you can enjoy it for a while, but no matter what you do it started to melt the minute it was made.
Look up a Pause travel trailer and the material they use which is called Transcore
Thanks for the suggestion. Have safe and happy travels!
8:02 Why are RV roof joints so high maintenance? I have a Ford Factory roof on my Econoline Van - 20 plus years old. No leaks, no maintenance beyond weekly wash.
RVs are not built like passenger vehicles. They are much larger and and yet have to be much lighter at the same time.
Getting a new F.River 36’ Salem, should I do a few formaldehyde cook outs before sleeping in it? I worry about it for my wife and kids
I'm not sure I know what you are asking. But all new RVs have a smell that eventually goes away. If you are sensitive to these smells, it can be difficult for the first bit of ownership. I usually recommend that a person who is sensitive to new construction odors just buy a year or two old instead. Usually by that time, the problem has resolved. I hope that helps.
My number one gripe with the RV industry is its inability to design and build watertight shells without needing goop (Yes, I call it goop) inspected and applied once a year or more. The auto industry has been able to do it for decades, why cant the RV industry? An RV costing tens of thousands of dollars or more shouldn't have to have its windows, joints and seals inspected. That line of thinking just keeps brain-washing the public into thinking that poor and lazy RV design and building techniques should remain normal. I have other gripes with the RV industry, but those have nothing to do with the subject matter of this video.
I have a lot of gripes about the RV industry myself, but I also have a certain amount of respect for the challenges that they face on an engineering level. Because an RV is not just an automobile. It is also not just a home. It is a combination of both of those things.
And cars aren't designed to have plumbing, or residential electricity, or multiple rooms that you can stand up in and walk around in, and the list goes on and on. So why not just build a residential home like we live in and make it mobile then? Simply because it would weigh so much that we couldn't safely propel it down the road in traffic and stop it safely as well.
My point is that an RV is a delicate balance between being strong and lightweight at the same time. But one more factor has to be added in, and that is cost. They have to be built with materials that are cost effective enough that the average person can afford them.
So to achieve all of that, RV builders assemble the pieces of an RV using sealants and compounds that are amazingly flexible and strong at the same time. And they last for many years if you simply keep an eye on them and take care of them. To me, that's not too much to ask.
And I am not aware of any RV makers in any part of the world that do not rely on sealants (goop) to prevent water leaks. But if you know something I don't on how it can be done better, I would love to hear about it.
@@RVInspectionAndCare Born Free, Chinook, Coach House, Escape Trailers, Casita Trailers, Scamp Trailers and Oliver Trailers are the only ones I know of that use one piece fiberglass shells that are far superior to other construction methods. (And they're not built like "residential homes")
Northern Lite and Bigfoot truck campers use molded upper and lower fiberglass shells that connect in the middle so there is only one waist-seam to maintain. Kingstar truck campers use stainless steel roofs that has their edges rolled over the sides by a few inches so their is no top seam for water to get through.
So their are a handful of RV manufactures that are trying to build them better. The rest of the industry just wants to crank out a bunch of junk. They wont even switch from their goop to the sealants that the automotive industry uses. But you being an RV inspector already knows that.
By the way, I'm glad I found your channel. Getting advice from a certified RV Inspector will be very helpful in my continuing edification of RVs.
@@renaissancepoet Those are all great RV builders that you mentioned. And yes, fiberglass shell RVs eliminate a lot of the water leak issues because of the way they are made.
But they have their drawbacks too that limits their appeal to a lot of RVers. For instance, the fiberglass construction process only allows an RV to be made that is at most 25 feet long. And to my knowledge there is no manufacturer that has figured out how to make them longer than that. They also don't have slides in them. So they tend to feel very small to a lot of people. Personally, I love these smaller fiberglass travel trailers, but the vast majority of RV buyers these days want something bigger and more spacious.
So the challenge is how do you build an RV that caters to the 26 - 45 foot crowd without using the fiberglass shell method? So far, what we have is what we see today. And that requires lots of sealant to help waterproof the seams and joints.
Hopefully, RV construction will move forward with better building processes in the future, including using more inorganic materials like Azdel in the construction. But what we have available at this point actually works pretty well overall when it is done properly. So for now, we just need to commit to inspecting our RV seams, joints and windows regularly.
Thanks for watching and commenting on the channel. I hope my videos will be very helpful for you!
@@RVInspectionAndCare Don't even get me started on slides! LOL
@@renaissancepoetthe king star stainless steel cap seems the be the best and simple solution to keeping a water tight roof for many decades
I am considering a Cherokee 256rrbl right now. What are your thoughts on that brand? It has wood framing, luan, and fiberglass exterior sides. Thanks, I value your opinions.
Cherokee is made by Forest River and they are not on my recommended brands list. I feel that there are other brands that would be a better choice for similar money.
@@RVInspectionAndCare Thanks
Would a wall made with Azdel be lighter and/or stronger than Luan?
Hi Mike. The marketing materials for Azdel claim both that it is both stronger and lighter than luan, and I believe that may be true. But the difference in these areas is not so dramatic that it makes a huge difference in the finished RV product. As far as I can tell, Azdel in the walls may save a couple of hundred pounds in an RV, which is definitely something, but not a major savings. Once again, RVs have been made very successfully for decades using luan panels in the walls. I think Azdel is a great product and is heading in the direction that RV construction needs to go, but its benefits shouldn't be over-hyped.
What would you recommend for a good sealant for the roof and joints?
Hi Brandon. On horizontal surfaces like the roof I like to use Dicor 501 self-leveling lap sealant. And on vertical joints on the sides of an RV, I often use Geocel Pro Flex. They both do an exceptional job and have lots of positive reviews online from RV owners. I hope that helps.
Thank you for the quick response. Much appreciated
I'm a newbie, looking to buy my first TT. Why don't they use Azdel in the roof, floor, walls? Sorry if this is a dumb question, just curious, this was a great video for me, because, i was looking at an Azdel TT and it was being pumped up as the best thing since sliced bread. Is it maybe a cost issue and trying to keep cost down for the unit? Is Azdel more?
As I said in the video, I would love to see RV builders use as much inorganic material as possible in building RVs. But for many manufacturers, the extra cost of installing Azdel in their products holds them back from making it a standard part of their process. Some RV buyers are very upset about that. But as the video says, if you care for your RV's joints and seams properly, the whole discussion of Azdel vs Luan is moot for the most part.
EmberRV
I have a 2016 Fleetwood Motorhome. How can I tell if it was made using Luan or Azdel construction?
Hi John. Probably the easiest way is just to ask Fleetwood what they used in their wall construction for that year and model. Thanks for watching!
@@RVInspectionAndCarethanks Duane.. I think found it, and it sounds just like you presented it..
- Tuff-Coat Fiberglass walls
- Aluminum Frame
- Solid Bead-Form Insulation
- Vacu-Bond Construction
- No wood substrate on exterior walls.
They don't mention the Azdel trade name, but I think I know what I have.
@@johndowns1986 That's great John. Now you know more about how your RV is made. And that may come in handy in the future. 👍
Thank you so much for explaining this. I have been wondering what Azdel was and what it meant. Your explanation was very easy to understand which I appreciate! I'm also wondering about leveling systems. What's the difference between electric and hydraulic jack systems? What are the pros and cons of each? Also four point vs six point? I have many many questions lol but this is one of my main ones.
I'm glad that this video was helpful for you Wendy. I'll try to put the subject of leveling systems on my list for future videos. Thanks for watching and making a nice suggestion about what you would like to learn more about. :-)
Good morning, friend, I want to buy a custom RV, what company do you recommend?
I’m sorry but I don’t track custom builders much. Before using one, I would do a lot of research on them in advance and check out reviews from former customers thoroughly. Thanks for watching!
Take care. Of your seams especially the roof ? Moot point ?🤔
Well, if you perform the maintenance you should on all of your RV seams no matter whether they are, on the roof or not, it really doesn't matter what building materials are used in the construction of the RV.
Im a planner also im a god sammemberànd ptint my routesnd it shows fuel stops ànd gogle earttoo
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment here!
I believe that Alliance is now using Azdell in the walls, roof and floor of their RVs now. I think I read that somewhere.
That said, thank you for another informative video.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching and leaving a nice comment too!
Looking at one aspect of using inorganic material "throughout" may provide longevity for the RV however eventually it will end up as landfill fodder which is the less desirable option where our environment is concerned.
We often forget to consider that. Not to mention the effect manufacturing inorganic material has on the environment at the beginning stage of the process. As you state, if you take care of your "organic" RV and regularly inspect it for problem areas they can last every bit as long as RVs made with inorganic materials.
At this point I have to wonder how safe it is to coexist with "Azdel" as we have absolutely no idea what Azdel is, how it is produced and if it is safe... Think Teflon... think PFAS!
I can see you are committed to helping people when it comes to RVing but I have to wonder how committed you are to finding out if the product is even safe.
Well, that's actually a good point. But the point of this video is not to tackle the environmental woes of the world. It's simply a discussion of the practical differences between Azdel and Luan from an RV owner's perspective. But thanks for bringing up another point to think about.
How in the world do you keep those muffins from spoiling? Lol. We are so strict on our maintenance.
Ha! .... At first I didn't know what muffins you were referring to until Cheri reminded me that they were sitting on our kitchen island in the video. BTW, I do love my Costco muffins. Yum! Thanks for watching with an eagle eye! :-)
Don’t protect (inspect and react) your systems especially roofs and seals and you’ll suffer (unless you’re Best Friends at your Dealership $$$$) ? You generally get what you pay for But a well maintained inexpensive Unit can Last almost indefinitely ? Be vigilant ! 😏
Good points Bobby. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject with us here!
?? It seems that the biggest problem is using wood based products and materials instead of synthetics.
That's not what the video says, and I stand behind the video content.
Get an ATC, all aluminum and azdel. Zero wood, all cabinets etc are aluminum.
There are very few RVs without wood of any kind in it. Even those who brag about the use of Azdel in the walls usually use luan and wood in the ceilings and floors. And actually, wood is just fine as a construction component. As long as you maintain your RV seals and joints and keep water out, you'll be just fine.
you are mixing Luan/Azdel delam with water intrusion. Azdel is FAR LESS LIKELY to delam with water intrusion. I'm sure you know that. These should be two different videos. Water intrusion video and a Luan vs Azdel delam video.
Sorry but you are the one that missed the point of the video. Delam takes place mainly BECAUSE of water intrusion. And as I clearly said, if no water intrusion takes place, there is no major advantage of Azdel over luan in RV walls. So like it or not, the real issue is the care being taken to insure water leaks don't happen. And that is easily done by regular maintenance.
@@RVInspectionAndCare I get your point. if you dont have water intrusion, you can make it out of cardboard for that matter. Which means there is no advantage of Azdel over cardboard. Azdel is a far superior product over luan WITH water intrusion. The roof is always the achilles heel. Good stuff.
Yep, I think you've got it. As I said in the video, I am a big fan of Azdel and similar products like it. And if you don't intend to regularly maintain the roof and seams, you better have Azdel in the RV walls. And of course, many people don't maintain their roof and seams like they should, so I can see why Azdel would be a high priority for those folks.
But they should also understand that delam is only one of the headaches that can come from water intrusion, and Azdel will not save them if it is only in the side walls of the RV.
Another thing is that luan gets a lot of bad press. But it is actually a pretty good material for RVs as it is strong, lightweight, accepts screws and glue easily, and is very flexible. But water leaks is it's downfall!
Water will end up on the floor ( gravity) - floors are still made of plywood ? I’ve had Azdel and Luan . Check your seals carefully and often - religiously ! Obviously the roof is most important ! Can be as little as a screw not sealed or a rusted out nail ? Many roof warranties are VOIDED if not “ professionally “ inspected on a SET SCHEDULE ? Read the small print - “extended warranties “unfortunately mean the Dealership/ Manufacturer/ Component Supplier Will Fight You “ over an extended length of time” ? Keep your tools - sealants - crazy glue - Gorilla tape and Your Sense of Humor Close By ! 🤗
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us here.
If you’re too lazy or helpless to check your seals - Nothing can protect you ? 🤭
Well, seals and joints are the main areas where water intrusion takes place as an RV ages. So clearly, the more you check and maintain them, the longer the RV will last without major repairs.
After a delamanation problem with a Keystone impact, from a poor seal around a front top marker light and not being able to get the side wall repaired. And a trip to the factory that didn't get any help on a 2 year old unit. Absolutely no more KEYSTONE products. I will only buy RVs with Azdel.
Sorry to hear about your delamination problems.