Has SSD Design gone Too Far?
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- The PCIe Gen 5 SSDs are here and some of them look absolutely crazy. But why do they need to take up so much space and is this type of cooling design even necessary?
0:00 - MSI Fights GPU Size...Maybe
2:55 - There's an Issue with Gen5 SSDs
5:11 - No Fire PCIe Gen5 Cable
6:02 - A Zero Cables Motherboard
7:04 - Direct GPU Airflow Cases
9:17 - The PERFECT Monitor for Flight Sims
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#hardwarecanucks - Věda a technologie
I really hope the industry shifts again to trying to make things smaller, cooler etc. I really don't want to have to actively cool my storage on top of all the other things I need to cool
For sure with 40-series GPUs its very efficient. Overbuilt coolers. A slight undervolt on anything below 4080 can easily make your card never see more than 60c.
We're at the limit of what silicon can do. You'll have to wait for quantum computers.
I agree
@@scifi_shop For GaN (gallium nitride) to be used more.
Ironically if you put two gen 4 SSD's in RAID, you'll have a drive that is faster than a single gen5 drive, smaller than a gen5 drive AND uses less power than a gen 5 drive and runs cooler than a gen5 drive
I think you need to look up the definition of ironic.
@@spewp happening in a way contrary to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.
For a lot of workloads this won't actually be true - RAID has a lot of overhead for small queue depths so this can make responsiveness worse. But in terms of pure throughout, which is all gen 5 gets you that's probably right
@@spewp I think you need to look it up bud
@@spewp Your comment is another example of irony...
It wasn’t long ago that one of the main selling points of m.2 SSDs was the fact that they were nearly invisible, what happened?
they need to just put a heat pipe and fan on them, huge fanless towers are ugly
What happened is customers brainwashed into clear sided PC cases, treated their computers as toys for infants, so now SSDs need to look *spectacular*.
It's still a selling point for me. I would never buy one of those silly heatsink towers on my board.
HDD is also invisible, under the PSU shroud
the main selling point is the speed. Being invisible doesn't matter to a lot of people
which ever engineer thought of adding the yellow color to that plug needs a big raise lol, so simple yet so genius.
It should be standard to have this for all those plugs. Would have saved a lot of people from fried graphics cards
I know right. That was really good
I think people should just not be idiots and actually put the cords in all the way.
@@spikespaz Sometimes the cords don't connect properly because of defects. It might connect and you think it's properly hooked up but it's actually not. So having a color coded plug is a way of helping to see it's not, especially if what your connecting to is also the same color
@@spikespaz absolutely
Corsair with SSD watercooling block earlier than these NVME heatsinks: "They had once called me a madman"
They need to stop with the useless speed and bump the 4K Random Reads like Hypetane tried to do.
Why
@@user-hq9fp8sm8f thats the shit that actually gives you faster load times. how often do you actually need to move a 4k movie compared to how often you start a program?
Who's hypetane? Couldn't find anything with that name
@@datdudeinred Optane*
@@datdudeinred Intel Optane hence the name Hypetane as it was touted to be next sliced bread but it failed but not before I got my hands on a 380gb 905P 2210 m.2
Glad MSI is at least trying to pull back a bit on the oversized cards. The only statement I'd be making if I bought one of the new cards is "I didn't bother reading the max GPU length and width on my case's specs", which shouldn't have been a concern to begin with when I don't use an ITX case.
As someone who didnt read it and has 5 mm left and has to remove the cpu cooler and pcie brackets everytime i want to remove the gpu i agree
there were brands before who were pushing with smaller form factor cards, but today cards are just too huge, it's insane, i had smaller cards than the biggest ones, It's so much better, you dont have to deal with bricks that as heavy as the rest of your system combined with the case probably.
That MSI case Dimitri looked at shows that MSI still haven’t learned what airflow actually means… the whole front of the case is half blocked off with that stupid diagonal accent piece. If they got rid of it, or made it a mesh but painted it light grey to match they wouldn’t need those extra fans on the inside spinning at full speed making a racket. When will they learn. Can’t wait for GN Steve’s reaction to it.
THIS!!! ☝️☝️☝️
😂😂😂
Very much prefer reasonable sized GPUs. Shouldn't have to worry if a new card will fit in your ATX case. Colored plug to guarantee secure connections is brilliant.
Those MSI cards aren't small enough.
We had single fan ITX 200W GTX 1080s or so, should also be possible with the 4070
The colored connector is a great idea and should be standard for all of these ATX style power connectors.
In regards to GPU sizes I feel like there needs to be standards for maximum sizes for particular form factors. Currently there is only really the slot count for sizes and then you have to check dimensions. I feel like there should be a short, medium, and long spec that provide maximum dimensions for the length so there is more consistency.
Usually there's only a ¼” keep-out behind the motherboard, so new cases need more clearance, not less.
ive always wondered why cables weren't plugged into the back of the mb
I'm waiting for a future scenario where the cooling fans have to work so hard to keep all the components performing at spec, that the fan motors will need their own coolers to stop them from overheating. 🙂
Strong argument for liquid cooling in one's design.
I actually love that they are trying to make gpus more compact, the 4090s are just going too crazy
Thus why more SKUs than before the x090s have water cooling on them from the AIB. Enough heat to justify that there needs to be a water block on it isn't a good thing but it is a thing with the 4090s. They also OC their cards so the water block is kind of needed with them. The cards are smaller than the air cooled ones too. Less length and less width but more height to them. The additional height in most of them is for the water cooling both the AIO ones and custom water cooling ones.
You can get compact m.2 5 heatsinks with built in fans.
All cable connections on the back of motherboards would definitely be nice, especially if manufacturers can agree on a standard.
Would make clean builds a lot easier, while also allowing for thicker radiators in cases.
I do like the idea of the connectors on the back of the board , but I also like the mechanical look of neatly arranged cables on the front, computers are almost getting boring looking., not being able to see the components that make up the board .. one of the reasons I love looking at pcbs! It's like a beautiful Harley engine and you cover it up with body panels...or are they just trying to hide something.
I'm a Car Mechanic where i see a lot of stuff pulled in under the hood. Seeing such stuff like Air admissions thst are sticked to Fans or even the Air Filter are sticked to cylinder head makes me sick. Seeing NOW that on a PC would be a total nightmare all over again
Smaller GPUs man.
I recent got a770. And in my old Antec case, it was quite a snug fit.
Pretty frustrating tbh.
But... What are the pros for average client out of this heat capacity?
I like the idea of reducing cable management issues, but I'm wondering if we might want to go towards, say, having a new PCI-E standard with additional power instead of 75W from the slot and the rest from external cables, and just have one bigger connection from the PSU to the motherboard... I think ASUS had a demo for such a slot with PCI-E and an additional section, so they had a high wattage GPU without any cables
Those SSD coolers are proof we need to start adopting U.2/3 drives into the consumer space. Solidigm and Micron make some fantastic U.2/3 drives that consumers can use. The trouble is you need a PCIe card to attach it, which unless you have an HEDT it will be connected through the chipset lanes. Or you need to use one of those PCIe Gen 4 M.2 adapters.
I don't mind getting back to 2.5/3.5 form factor. The M.2 form factor has been quite limiting in terms of everything.
This is why Frore Systems Airjet is a game changer for cooling. They are at Computex 2023 too.
I love my itx builds, i need dem 2 slot short bois
As long as the fans are quiet even at max speed and there is no coil whine
I love ITX builds, because I like to put my pc in my backpack which allows me to work anywhere on the go, compact gfx cards are really appreciated personally
when is the slim edition releasing from the msi 4070 ti gaming x looks amazing by the way
No visible cables? Like the Mac Pro?
I would prefer slimmer cards. Right now I have a couple of PCI-E slots that I can't use because of the huge GPU card. The only option I have currently would be to water cool the card, which is a hassle I don't want to get into.
these gimmick merchants should take note of the fact that watercooling a GPU makes a lot more sense than CPU but nobody wants to do it
2:00 REALLY?? The 4060 is a 8GB Laptop GPU with 115W TDP. That card is big enough to cool double that, so it is definetly NOT small and it won't even fit my SFF ITX case...
Look at it, the cooler overhangs the card by 5cm, that can be cut off and it would be fine with 1 fan... They should make a 4070 with that cooler and price it at 500$...
Sometimes I wonder, what is paid and what is a honest opinion...
Seems that connectors on back of motherboard are trend and hopefully we will have it maybe in few years as standard :D
so glad their doing this have always thought 4 slots was dumb and will eventually be a big issue for Ewaste. and well I have just prefered a 2 slot design without needing to water cool.
I have RX6700XT with MSI compact Mech X2 cooler. I like the small size and it can keep things cool with reasonable volume. But what I'm not exactly happy about is the hot spot temperature. 30-40C difference to the die. Repasting made no difference. Since it uses direct die heat pipes, I'm a bit afraid it suffers from the heat pipe dryout.
i`m working on an old socket a board rn, memtest is showing 350MB/s PC133 mem bandwidth 😆😆
As far as the graphics card size goes, I like the card with a thicc heatsink. It can be short, but the heat dissipation is beneficial to maintaining boost clock speeds.
I don’t overclock. I care more about size
i'd rather have the smaller gpu. it just means i could fit it into smaller cases which is a good thing for me.
just go with GPU water cooling then. Same size PCB as in the video but which ever card you got though you do have to tag on the cost of the water block, tubing, radiator, pump, and fittings with the supplies for the loop. Less length and width while a little more height. Depending on how you set it up the radiator could be outside the case so you won't have to have a different case just cut 2 holes into it for the tubes. If you go with a custom loop doing both the CPU and GPU would free up more space than just the GPU. Having it outside the case would have with the inside case problem but not the outside case problem but you could just put it on top of the case or on the side though i do suggest to put it in the case not out of it for convenience though outside the case would make it easier for when to bleed the loop for maintenance and fans would be easier to get to to clean. Inside the case would be better for it would not get dusty as fast and no need to cut a hole in the case. Both have pros and cons both are also smaller than uses an air cooler.
I wonder when we see motherboards with no components on the front except sockets?
My decision on which 4090 to buy was entirely dictated by the size of the card. Only a few fits in the NZXT H510.
I need a thinner graphics card. Cards wider than 2 slots will block my motherboard's bottom expansion slot.
I have no issues with front mounted cables. Rear mounted cables will still have cable routing issues. I don’t think it is worth it. New cases, probably new power supplies with shorter cables, etc, etc. Personally, I would make cases deeper and move the motherboards up in the case to give us more room for cabling.
we used to have a nice selection of direct GPU cooling cases before the whole glass/plastic panel BS took over.... HAF-932, Azza Hurrican, MSI Nighthawk, Corsair Carbide 500R... we *REALLY* need to get back into function over form cases like those instead of everything being RGB glass and just turning into a greenhouse with PCBs inside
probably gonna get flamed, but i dont care about cables or not, rgb in pc or not. nor the size of the gpu. i dont look at my pc unless im cleaning it or upgrading it.
all i care about is my peripherals and performance per wattage , i realy love my new 5800X3D, my g900 and my k100. Dual screens is also a must.
I love the huge coolers on GPU's right now, they are needed for the amount of heat the generate but most importantly QUIET. As for the M.2 drives, they will just be located to a good spot by the motherboard makers for active cooling.
it depends on my case size, if my case is a full sized atx case (for my case a fractal torrent then yes bigger gpu is better since it will look better on my case.) else i do prefer a smaller size one
the little details they made added up together and prove their worthyness
4:52 I WANT IT NOWWWWW
The ASUS ProArt 4080 is a step in the right direction for size at the high end, at under 300mm in length while being a 2.5 slot.
Now in need to add an M.2 water cooling loop
I have a 3060 12gb with one fan and never had a cooling problem.
I personally have a 2slot 4070ti, of course it's a bit louder than normal but I hate the fact that most GPU's are like 3slots+ now
as someone who is currently rocking an itx build (thermaltake tower 100), i’d like smaller graphics cards
For GPU heatsinks / cooling I want efficiency in cooling that's going to allow the card to perform as beast as possible also manufactures should have AIO cooled GPU's for the higher cards that are user serviceable or waterblock editions for PC enthusiast that do water cooling.
Every year consumer electronics tech companies have to come up with a new gimmick to sell more product and every year it works. There's a sucker born every minute.
Is size a destruction from the price issue. I want a £999 4090, and the lower cards fit under this.
Advance vapor chamber + 120mm fans.
I fondly remember single slot GPU's these monsters are just to big. Or manufacturers need to make longer motherboards, so you can still use the PCI slots instead of all of them being covered by GPU bulk. And Gen5 SSD's with coolers that make them larger then old-school spinning rust is ridiculous.
I am seeing Gamdias there that's awesome
It's funny how everything internally is getting bigger and then externally its getting smaller ( ITX case trends ).
Remember when 250W on the GTX 480 was outrageous in 2010?
Love the Cables to the back on the motherboards! Best Idea in a decade!
with heat sinks so big, just add a fan...
I don't think it will lead to smaller GPUs but just keep them from getting any bigger when the next gen comes out.
I wish the industry would push for U.2/U.3 in the consumer market. For laptops M.2 might be better, but standard desktops could easily handle U.3 SSDs, that could be way easier cooled.
Dude, i want something to fit in my ITX case that has decent cooling. SO what i want is a 2-3 slot card with noctua fans. Common now. make it happen and ill make you the best coffee you ever had
Oh great now they're as big as 3.5 inch hard drives
They need to use denser fin stack instead of making GPUs bigger.
Not that simple. The denser the finstack that higher power the fan needs to be to move the air out. Thus becoming very loud. I think the vapor chamber design needs work and maybe a bit denser fin stack, but it's not so easy. They would have done it if it was.
Sounds like I should buy MSI GPU next.
My GPU priority list: 1 powerful enough, 2 quiet, 3 efficient, 4 price
Hate the big GPU monstrosities. I keep looking at my 1080ti and then my 3080ti. That thing is 3x my 1080ti.
Lmao that nvme heatsink is doa with that heatsink
My pc case only support up too 330mm of GPU.
That was enough for any GPU a few years ago 😅
I’m. SFF person, I used to have a Dan A4 and now daily drive a LianLi A4 h2o. I don’t need top tier performance because of the games I play, but it’s kind of annoying to have to actively think about what’s compatible when I do plan to upgrade; I prefer AMD’s reference designs because of that USB-C port, but that’s only available on the higher tier, larger cards
Looks good to be used as a gaming phone hot rod cooler lmao
I just hope PCI-e 6 will supply the ENTIRE power to the GPU back to the good o' days. No more power cables. That will be a HUGE help. I think PCIE-5 can't do that yet.
600w through pcie slot? Gimme a break
probably not gonna happen unless gpus use at most ~100w
no way in hell we'll get 600 watt over slot, the most i could see happening is 150.
100% I absolutely hate the power cable for GPU; if the CPU and M.2 socket can provide data and power, why can't the PCI-E slot!!!?
Oh yay, then the price of motherboards will skyrocket
If they keep going this direction, NVMe drives will evolve into a full-fledged PCIe card with a gpu cooler attached to it
Lol, how many lanyards is the girl in 8:15 wearing.
As a gamer and a software developer, I can't think of any situations where pcie5.0 SSDs will make a perceivable difference for me, compared to pcie4.0 or even pcie3.0 ones. Especially with random read/write capabilities they make no significant difference if any.
I'd love to see more efficient and compact gpu coolers instead of the massive ones they are going for this generation.
I miss the RX480 Era of GPUs. VR on a $250 card was a game changer.
No one pushes like Polaris did.
I feel like we need a shift in pc design towards GPU cooling being easy to customize and being sold separately, like CPU coolers.
*GPU get bigger, ssd get heatsink*
Mainboard: why you guy did this to me? Why?
The only important parametr is how silent GPU is, size doesn't matter. I just upgraded from 1080 to RTX 4090 and I finally can play game in silence (with FPS limited to 60 FPS)
i'd rather have 'big' in slotsize rather then length, but frankly as long as theres top tier cards under 280mm im happy
Than.
NOT then.
There's.
NOT theres.
I'm.
NOT Im.
As a mainstream itx user.
I dont see myself ever getting a xx80 class flagahip card for the size
Smaller, slimmer and quieter GPU - with some RGB.
what i've never understood about the GPU market is why companies insist on strapping a triple slot cooler onto a 220 Watt card. If an FE card can handle 320w of power in a 2 slot form factor, there's no excuse.
Can we bring back the AGP slot? 🙏
Waht do you expect from AGP? It was disbandoned after AGP8x due to timing problems.
And compared to PCIe x16, the AGP slot was only able to provide 48.25W instead of 75W, so even with AGP and modern GPUs cables and huge chunky coolers would be necessary.
So why do you want AGP back, it has no advantages over PCIe_x16
Man lost it when he loved 4060Ti 😂
No one is saying that size is mutually exclusive with better cooling design. If I had the option of buying a massive card (within reason) or a small one and both had the same design why wouldn't I choose the bigger card?
Bigger cards can = bigger fans and bigger fans normally = better cooling.
Gen 5.0 SSD are to big to be used in conjunction with Most large GPU cards on crowded Motherboards, that's a real problem. I will stick with my 4.0 SSD and be happy until this size issue gets addressed.
the performance per watt on gen5 is a major step backwards, they are horribly inefficient, thats why they require huge cooling solutions. These gen5 SSD's can pull as many watts as the AMD SoCs used in a thin and light laptop or handhelds. For example, the Steamdeck or ROG Ally, they use as much power as a top of the line Gen5 SSD does today
Just like with engines, there is no replacement to displacement.
Solid State fans such as the AirJet Mini will revolutionize the industry.
Smaller GPUs is what I want. I tend to build mATX or mini ITX machines, so space is at a premium. I have no room in my budget or my cases for 3+slot GPUs that tower above the IO bracket by 2+ inches for no good reason.
A tightly packaged card with efficient cooling in a compact, 2 slot package that doesn't go more than a half inch above the I/O bracket is what's going to get my money.
Right now that seems to be the Powercolor Fighter series. No frills, compact and fits in basically all my cases.
As for SSD's, honestly the placement of m.2 drives is more of an issue than the heat. If they could be placed in the normal airflow path of a case, they'd run nice and cool, maybe with a small heatsink on the controller.
I am finding it hilarious that all those old oddball Thermalright HR series coolers for chipsets and VRMs from like 15 years ago have been reborn as M.2 coolers.
If my entire computer was a 1 inch cube that I could hide behind my monitor I'd get that. Of course that's physically impossible and there are thermals to consider but as small as possible, as quiet as possible, no RGB BS, no stupid gamer designs and shrouds, etc.. Cool and quiet is the name of my game. (Usually buy enthusiast sweet spot - 7800X3D & 4090)
5:13 That is actually very smart and improving safety! They should tell Nvidia 😅
Yeah, the 'because we can' thing with size is going the wrong direction. Can we please strive for a balance of cost and making things reasonably sized?
I'm a fan of SFF build and therefore a gpu larger than 2 slots is a no go for me. They also look vey clumsy imo.
I just want a GPU that's closer to the width of the IO sheild. I don't need a GPU nearly touching the side panel of my case.
I can't stand how large GPU's have gotten. I thought it was getting absurd when they were getting to 2.7-3 slots and 325mm+ in length.
I've got an XFX RX7900XTX with their oversized heatsink. I made a mistake. It's too hot and too big and draws too much power. My system can support it and It's nice but... My other system has an ASROC 2 slot RX6700XT and I actually prefer it. Live and learn.
I really hope other companies follow MSI's example in trying to keep their GPUs at a manageable size.