Mathematics: Beauty vs Utility - Numberphile
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2017
- Should mathematics be done for its pure beauty or should it have practical uses? And why are many mathematicians so bad at outreach?
Discussion with famous French mathematician, Cédric Villani.
More Villani videos: bit.ly/Villani_Videos
Numberphile videos on Magic Squares: bit.ly/MagicSquareVideos
Cédric Villani website: cedricvillani.org
His book Birth of a Theorem (Amazon): bit.ly/BirthOfATheorem
Numberphile is supported by the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute (MSRI): bit.ly/MSRINumberphile
We are also supported by Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science.
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In Cedric Villani's office, entropy clearly increases
ha
there is a hidden order our minds can't guess.
Maybe, the entropy is constant in the system { Villani's office, Villani }.
Is the joke that his office is a closed system?
@@mimerafm3794 Numberphile clearly managed to enter
I sent an email recently to Cedric Villani, asking for a meeting and a long interview about mathematics and poetry, for my slam poetry channel... I am a complete nobody, not a mathematician (although interested in the matter, and in science in general), i have a mere 150 followers... But he accepted my request with pleasure ! This is a sign of true goodness, on top of all the mathematical genius :) Gotta love this guy !
Flojito - Le slam à la paille I met him in 2012, we spend the evening talking about mathematics, science, and politics. He is a great person, he inspired me for my studies, back then I was nobody and now I'm starting my PhD. Anyway if he remembers the evening of May the 9th 2012, tell him the tall long-haired guy says hi. If it helps, we also talked about his trips with Dr Germoni.
That's amazing! A friend of my father's, a leading researcher at Google, Peter Norvig, got to speak to him. I was so incredibly jealous when Peter told me. I'll wait for when the time is right to ask for a meeting with him.
Ne t'ai-je pas déjà vu slammer dans un bar de Belleville ? :) j'ai regardé ta chaîne et, le visage et la voix me sont familiers, je crois.
Ca ne m'étonne pas que Monsieur Villani apprécie l'idée de te rencontrer, d'une part parce que c'est un chic type comme on en a très peu sur la place publique, de l'autre parce que c'est un poète, à sa façon. Rencontrer cet homme ne peut-être qu'enrichissant et super intéressant, tu as bien de la chance :)
Ah ben c'est probablement au Downtown Café non ? Mais oui je slam souvent dans des bars parisiens donc on a dû se croiser !
Malheureusement j'ai dû mettre ma chaîne en stand by pour cause de nouveau boulant très prenant, et du coup mon entretien avec Villani, bah j'ai dû le mettre en stand by lui aussi :/
Mais effectivement c'est un vrai poète pour peu qu'on comprenne son univers !
How did it go? :)
Everything French people say in English sounds philosophical.
"Je vais descendre les poubelles" :)
ÜsernameTaken mais quelle finesse... C'en est pathétique
I'm french, and I can say you that what this guy say when he speaks french alqo sounds philosophical ;)
"J'aime me masturber sur toi pendant ton sommeil et éjaculer dans ton nez."
So philosophical xD
He didn't say that, did he ? -.-
His handwriting when he wrote the Boltzmann equation was so beautiful
Too bad he didn't wrote with a goose feather ^^
I wonder how many times he has written it in his life 🤔
I think it's dangerous to say that doing mathematics for the purpose of utility isn't beautiful..And dangerous to say doing mathematics for the purpose of beauty isn't useful. It is a specturm, and both ends have offered valuable contributions.
Tuc Cop out, but I do agree.
useful for whom?
Tuc I think the point is, not everyone sees the beauty in the utility of mathematics, especially people who don't understand it. Sometimes, in order to get people interested in Mathematics as a whole, one will have to show things that are "cool"
Tuc The concept of doing mathematics for utility is beautiful, it's the "useful math" itself which is usually horrendous (to most people)
I think that's pretty much what he said though. "When it's useful it's even more beautiful." and "Sometimes what's useless will become useful."
It's sort of ridiculous that people are voicing unease or any kind of displeasure at this guy's outfit. He's one of the world's finest mathematical minds, and is comfortable enough with himself to wear what he likes, rather than what arbitrary social convention dictates. And what do we do? We say, "Aha, you might have a beautiful mind, but I can *conform*. How about that, eh?"
they r just jelly bruh
I honestly didn't even notice what he was wearing, so I was pretty confused at the comments. He's not in a fashion show so it's completely irrelevant what he's wearing in this video.
Good to see piano and maths linked ^^
Spot on.
Haters gonna hate
"if you don't manage to talk the way they understand, you'll not become their friend"
AzaardStyle earth to all math teacher. Earth to all math teacher~
don vito?
??.
As someone who aspires to the field of education, I have long since found that the most difficult part of teaching is remembering what it is like to not know and understand what you are teaching. Only those who can manage this will be able to sympathize with the perspective of their students.
Too often, when we learn something new, we block out the memories of not knowing, because it conflicts with our new understanding, but this is a mistake. Because too often too, when we try to share that understanding with someone else who doesn't know it, we fail to meet that person halfway.
We must try to remember not only the conclusions we come to in our learning, but also the journeys taken to get there, if we ever hope to guide someone else along that same path.
Damn. Wow, so true 👌
Brilliantly encapsulates the beauty of teaching - it is from this premonition that my underlying passion for teaching became clear. I believe that to inspire others to learn so that they might aspire to a life of education and in turn inspire future generations is among the noblest endeavours one can dream up.
I want him to whisper equations in my ear...
kguy152000 Stop, you're getting me flustered at the thought of it
kguy152000 *whispers*
y = mx+b
kguy152000 *whispers* "x^(a+bi)= (x^a)[cos(b•ln(x)) + i•sin(b•ln(x))]"
*whispers* 0^0=2
😂
He speaks with more eloquence than most native English speakers.
he speaks with more eloquence than most native French speakers too
??.
Brady is a top notch interviewer. Great questions and answers about things that aren't discussed anywhere else.
false.
@@Triantalex care to elaborate?
This guy is renaissance incarnate.
‘ reincarnate
He does look like he time traveled directly from Da Vinci's neighborhood.
false.
Cedric has become one of my scientific heros as of late. His passion for mathematics is contagious. When I'm getting bogged down with my diff eq work I watch a portion of an interview or lecture of his and find the motivation to continue. That's actually what I'm doing right now. Thanks !
I love this guy! I could listen to him teach and speak all day!
ElloetteLightbringer has a very calm voice
Could work on that accent a bit, though - it would help him get da muny for his museum :)
French 's accent is fine ok
I got the same! X)
false.
I see Cedric, I instant watch.
[opens CZcams]
[sees two Cédric Villani videos uploaded today]
[dies]
NoriMori [rip]
Not only is he a genius but he also has a unique style! It's awesome. Honestly he's like my goals right now.
I liked the points he made about how different it is when you're actually in charge of administrating something, and having to portray a certain image or give utilitarian reasons to companies for funding, and at the same time being frustrated as a mathematician that others not always see the beauty of math itself.
Love his outfit by the way.
I like this guy - he has that soft-spoken manner that makes you stop and listen to what he has to say, and what he has to say is very thoughtful.
It's actually rather mesmerizing watching him constantly keep up a mental filter, judging, changing and re-evaluating each and every word he says. There is just so much wisdom behind those eyes which, sadly, never leaves his mouth.
Any chance we could get an extended interview with Cédric Villani?
I loved this, especially because I've been trying to force myself to read Hardy's "A Mathematician's Apology" and keep stalling out. To me he just seems incredibly entitled to insist that 'pure' math--with no thought to usefulness--is superior to math motivated by real-world problems, which he deems beneath him. To hear that conceit called out as 'a little bit of poison' by a Fields Medalist is extremely refreshing.
Some captions are available - you can use the button under the video!
Numberphile Can you do a vid on Pascal's triangle?
Numberphile On behalf of all of us French people, I say sorry for our terrible accent.
+Lord Hades I think the French accent is brilliant.
Glad to see someone appreciates it !
Lol pourquoi s'excuser. L'Anglais de Villani est excellent en plus... Bien meilleur que celui d'autres intervenants de Numberphile d'ailleurs
I was just discussing why math matters with my sister half an hour ago. She basically said it's something that people made up and therefore it doesnt effect herself, that she could view the world differently than how people do in math. Jeez I get worked up even thinking about it
As someone who deals alot with philosophiy of mathematics, I know the claim that mathematics is a kind of invention. What is certainly true is that our numbers and signs are mere conventions. And it would be for sure possible to "invent" other forms of calculus. But they would be of no use. Our mathematic is useful, because it depicts the inherent logic of our nature and thus, it refers to something, which is not invented. Mathematic is mirrored in nature. Just take the golden ratio, for example.
Sinan Şenocak impressive blinkers. though i can understand
Sure, but even if it does have a real bearing on the world, it's still perfectly valid for someone to considering it unnecessary and/or uninteresting for living their life.
It is not made up it is how mathematican thinks.
the idea of negative numbers exists because we let it, not because it exists in nature, its an idea we made up, the idea of a deficit etc. So theres an example that math is made up based on its maker upers (the creatures who made it up) I say creatures because it could be any life form that invents a tool, a tool to describe nature as it is? or as how they want it to be? a little of both
The thumbnail shows the Mandelbrot Set, unfortunately it doesn't make an appearance in the video.
+Wargon it is representing the "beauty of math" while the cash on the right is representing "the utility".
I was just hoping that its another video about fractals. Fractal geometry shows the beauty of mathematics but is also useful so I thought the picture would be related to the video more directly.
I thought Brady represented the beauty of math.
Museum of mathematics!? That's my next travel destination!
I would absolutely LOVE to see an interview of Alain Connes on this channel.
He makes a very interesting point about inhabiting a mental world that is completely out of reach for the vast majority of people. I studied maths as part of a physics degree at university having done two maths A levels before that and still all of Villani's work is out of my reach. To most people it is utterly incomprehensible in every respect.
I know some very talented musicians. They are a bit like that as well. At least the end result of a musician's work is easier for most of us to appreciate.
If beauty in mathematics inspires the youth to take it up, then there is real utility in its beauty.
He’s a very empathetic human being. Love his way of explaining many abstract subjects.
His passion is incredible. I find it so inspiring, and also oddly comforting, listening to him and others who are absolutely devoted to their craft. Now I remember why I studied mathematics.
Cedric remains my absolute favourite mathematician. His soul and kindness is incredibly endearing in light of his intelligence and wisdom. A truly rare person.
[correct me if I am wrong]:
When chemists need more funding:
"We are low on [insert highly expensive chemical here]."
When mathematicians need more funding:
"We need more pencils."
Bengineer8 One does not simply have an idea for a meme.
+gates : Pencil is a very useful tool for the mathematician, and I think for many years more and more...
papers*
When mathematicians need more funding:
"We need more coffee."
Fixed it for you.
Steve's Mathy Stuff lol
Genius, he knows what mathematics is and what is the meaning of being a mathematician. Love to listen each of your's interview on any of the topic you choose.A learner, scholar, erudite, pundit.
"There is no shame in something being useful"
This made me laugh xD
Such honesty, I really like this.
It is really rare nowadays to find a video of [9-10[ minutes.
Thank you for not adding unecessary content to the video for the only purpose to reach 10mins
"You sound almost half-politician!" Perhaps foreshadowing Villani's election to the National Assembly? :P
Spoiler ! 😂
@Clad Strife haha un gauchiste ici 😄 ils sont partout!! (Dans les villes, dans les campagnes)
@Clad Strife arrêtez de vous complaire dans l'axe gauche-droite. Autrefois, il servait à situer se opinions politiques. Maintenant, ça ne sert qu'à se faire traiter de gaucho, ou de facho.
Et qui en profite ? Ceux qui utilisent le ras-le-bol de ce manichéisme, comme LREM.
@Clad Strife parce que je ne sais pas comment on mentionne deux personnes dans un commentaire.
@Clad Strife bonjour. Je prends connaissance de vos réponses à l'instant. Ma participation était uniquement à but humoristique, comme le montre l'emoticone et le référence à la célèbre tirade de Marine le Pen; je n'avais aucunement l'intention de dénigrer l'opinion politique de Clad strife. Si mon commentaire a été mal compris, je me suis sûrement mal exprimé et j'aurais dû expliciter davantage l'aspect ironique de celui-ci, d'autant plus que les cons de droite sont nombreux sur internet (tout comme les cons de gauche), ce qui rend la distinction entre un commentaire sérieux et un commentaire ironique peu évidente.
This guy is awesome
Unbelievably enjoyable to listen to Mr. Villani. maybe more of him?
All of the people that you interview here are very fascinating, and it is a very big pleasure to hear them, and to learn from them.
So, good job!
Just discovered Cedric thanks to this video. Very interesting person, both technically and humanly, with a great vision.
I requires a very special way of thinking to be able to talk about something complicated in an understandable manner for non specialists, for simplification requires the understanding of what really matters, why it does, and how it relates to common experience.
Will search for more material about him.
I didn't know what to expect, but this whole video was surprisingly very interesting.
Villani is such a weird, quirky person.. it's beautiful! Thank you Brady, again, for this and all the other work.
mister villani totally brings it on point. i admire him for his clear mind and trait to express himself so reasonable
He is a person from another planet. Enjoyed listening to him.
More of this guy!
6:46 Exactly! You can definitely say that again!
Hecatonicosachoron yeah
Congratulations, almost 2mil !! much love from honduras
What a prestigious guest you have today!
A great mathematician
05:06 "and there is no shame in something being useful" - that's like the most mathematician's thing to say ever hahah
Thanks or your time here CV. Been great as a maths teacher watching all you said in these vids.
The next time you meet him, make him say: "Finally, we meet at last, Mr. Sherlock Holmes"
I love this way to interview et ce Villani est très spontané
It would be cool to have more videos where you ask mathematics why they started with their topic, where they find the beauty and why they enjoy doing it. It is very inspiring!
Thanks Brady another nice interview. In addition to the nuts-and-bolts of his mathematics I find Dr. Villani's thoughts on the more Human side (if that's the right term) of his science most interesting.
Cheers,
Mark
***********************************
This is wonderful! Thank you
Hey Numberphile, you should chat with John Urschel about his work sometime if you have a chance. He plays in the NFL and is currently doing his Ph.D. in theoretical mathematics at MIT.
This guy is impressive. A lot is going on between his ears.
Really great talk! I'm a student of philosophy myself, obviously not even close to being anything near as knowledgable about philosophy as he is about mathematics. I am slowly reaching the same conclusion. Philosophy too has to be both.
his reaction when he figured out his theorem 3:03
We need more of Cedric!
I love Cedric Villani's explanations
j'aime beaucoup Cédric Villani =)
Awesome mind and spirit!
really enjoyed this video! shows how the utility of maths can be part of it beauty
personally speaking I see that the utility of maths is the only beauty of it.
Great discussion ! Really like this mathematician :)
Brady asking the tough questions. Another great video.
Very good video thanks brady
+VSilver2 you're welcome
this man is awesome, i had seen some talks by him
Could listen to this man all day.
An intellectual giant and a gentleman. Love this.
LOVE WHEN CEDRIC IS ON NUMBERPHILE
I love that he felt it necessary to qualify "soon" with a time frame. A very math mind thing.
Jeffery Rowan
An example of what he was talking about. Working with those who provide funding, require a project plan, milestones, etc. he's learned he cannot simply leave something described as "soon". It needs to be stated as an actual figure (even if it is an estimate). Maybe?
Such a humble man.....
In his books on architecture, Roman architect Vitruvius emphasised the importance of a balance between beauty, utility and soundness. The same can be applied to mathematics.
Nice interview
listening to this man is a spiritual experience
woah, would love to hear more about this mathematics museum, and maybe attend one day
Clearly a man that have contributed greatly to his field and humanity. But what is with the spider and the big butterfly thingy?
+Søren Sørensen see the other video we uploaded today?
Note sure about the spider, but the fields metal was the thing that got my attention.
ha ha ..... you don't know him ..
He is also contributing to his country (he is a french deputy)
I´ve always been shit in maths. I´ve failed maths at school couple times but i cant stop loving them. Numberphile u have helped a lot in loving maths. Thank you from spain :)
Great video
this clip was dope!
also: Museum of Mathematics is one I would visit right away.
Always kind of fun to look up the people in the videos, and see how much they've done in the world
I really needed to hear Professor Villani critique Hardy's purism.
Such wise and nuanced explanations! It's interesting to hear his opinions on the more political side of the industry.
love your guys vids though, keep up the good work. you guys have reignited my passion for subjects like this
I think that he should have a one-hour special where he discusses his life, education, philosophy etc. I really like the way he thinks and expresses himself.
Good job Sir
what a character....
The need to translate our work into laypersons' terms is SO important. Many are genuinely curious about what we do, but we have to be able to put it into laypersons' terms in order to get the message across.
I love this man!
Would love to see this guy on Objectivity - he seems to have such a deep appreciation of things!
Me too
For me, the most beautiful parts of mathematics are the ones that hold the most significance, the most information. There is a deep, moving beauty in equations that take a vast and complicated topic, and distill it into something that you can explain to a child. Sometimes these equations are pure mathematics, like Euler's identity... but sometimes these equations can be from physics or engineering, like Maxwell's equations or Newton's law of gravitation. They are beautiful in their simplicity, yet hold up entire fields of knowledge.
We want more !!!
This guy is fascinating.
Amazing man. How far have you personally gone in mathematics Brady?
Great guy!
This guy looks awesome. There is something mezmerising in the courage to dress like that nowadays.
Cedric Villani is such amazing mathematicians. I wish that I could attend one of his lectures.