BETTER Than Warhammer?! Zweihander & Warlock! (Ep. 372)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Professor DM reviews Zweihander and Warlock!, two RPGs inspired by Warhammer FRP.
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Thanks for looking over Warlock!, I'm glad you liked it!
THE Greg Saunders?! Cool! I've had that book for awhile, it having been recommended to me by my patrons. I was trying to find the right game to pair it with. Best of luck. Share the video far and wide and tell everyone it's PDM approved!
@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I love Dungeon Craft, and the fact that you review other creators systems is another great reason.
😃😃😃😃
Just got it in the mail! Looking forward to diving in!
Oh hey! Those are my maps in the Zweihander box! Cheers, Prof!!
GREAT maps! Hit me up on Twitter. W should talk.
Wow I'm fan of your art! Didn't know though, very cool!!
Hey Map Crow! Love your maps dude!
great stuff!
dude, you're talented. Is there more material from you out there?
I bought Zweihander in the hopes it was an improvement over WHFRP 1e and 2e. It looked promising at first, but the more I read, the more I realized it added a lot of unnecessary complications.
I agree, I think Zweihander is a good source of house rules to make your current WFRP 1/2e or 4e more interesting/better. Even then, it is hard to justify that purchase.
Yes, not an improvement over the original
I hear the second edition cuts the fat, but the guy who was telling me about was wearing a lot of fun makeup and had found ruin playing with fireworks so grain of salt.
Doesn't even touch old school Warhammer Fantasy. Good Attempt, but not quite.
Was the same. Didn't buy into it but had tried it out during its early testing phases; it really had some odd systems that added unnecessary complications. I've moved onto 4th edition WFRP from 2nd and I'm enjoying that.
I was so enamoured by Warlock! and its very grim British fantasy that I wrote 'Bridgetown' for it. Absolutely brilliant game.
I don't like Zweihander but I love this review ^_^
I've heard nothing but bad things about the author. It's enough to keep me away.
@@dirigoallagash3464Same.
@@dirigoallagash3464 same.
Same@@dirigoallagash3464
@@dirigoallagash3464 Same here
The other clear inspiration for Warlock is obviously the Fighting Fantasy game books from Britain, including The Warlock of Firetop Mountain. As soon as I saw those Stamina and Luck ability scores, and that art style, I instantly flashed back.
Forest of Doom was my first.
@@bluecarpettiles Mine too, and City of Thieves.
Warlock! is magnificent and already has a ton of great supplements.
I helped with " Earn your Crust ". More classes/ professions.
"May all of your rolls be 20s." That's not a half-bad roll in a percentile system.
Indeed!
After playing both, i do have to say whfrpg 1e is still the best option, 4e is also good.
4e is the best. Just hate setting lol
@@coldstream11Like with any setting, I just take what I like and mold into what I want to be. My brain can't handle learning every detail of the lore and history. Give me a vibe and some cool monsters, and im good to go.
4e is a hot mess...
WF2E Forever
WFRP 4E is fine except for having four versions of Fate Pts.
Both WFRP 2E and Zweihander beats WFRP 4E on that, as well as Zweihander having clearer character sheets.
Other than that, both systems are great and quite similar.
WFRP 4E is tied to The Old World setting, and has heaps of supplements and resources.
Zweihander is much more indie, but ideal for making up your own grimdark renaissance setting
I really enjoy learning about TTRPG’s that aren’t D&D on this channel 😊
Glad you like them!
Zweihander is like Warhammer if you had meh rules and no setting.
One thing that isn't meh, this great video.
Warlock is great. And shares a lot with Deathbringer. Abstract ranges/zoned combat, basically sided initiative, and the good old roll a d20 and add. And the various supplements for it add a lot.
You piqued my interest with the deathbringer comparison.
Rules light rules!
One important thing to note is that they're running a kickstarter THIS MONTH to fund the next edition that will replace all the Zweihander stuff (Revised Core Rulebook and even the starter that is only a year and a half old) so caveat emptor. Supposedly they're coming out with a compatibility update/document but I still wouldn't recommend getting something that is already announced to be replaced soon. And I say that as someone who bought the starter just a few weeks before they announced the new edition... :(
one of the core design principles is to be backwards compatible, though. i wouldn’t recommend getting the core book but the starter set will basically be good to use i think
Being German I have to patronize people, else my citizenship gets revoked: just pronounce the 'händ' in 'Zweihänder' like the English word 'hand'. Besides that, your German is pretty good and I enjoy the names in your szenarios.
Thank for educating me. I'll try to correct my pronounciation in future videos!
I agree! Try to pronounce it like „Tsweihander“. The Z in German is also different then in English.
More like
“Ts-vy-handuh” eh, given the ä
@@michaelwelker8759 9/10 Amis würden jetzt "hinder" sagen
@@michaelwelker8759I think he is already pronouncing the ä correctly thus no change is needed.
I think Zweihander has better production values, but like Warlock more personally. It feels more... DIY or gritty. Maybe it's just me.
The genuine excitement on “Oh look, I rolled a one” is terrific.
Dungeon Craft is the best channel for TTRPG and all related topics, reviews, news, and especially creative content like crafting, campaign building, and world building.
I wanted to stop by and say I love all dungeoncraft videos about running games. I disagree with almost half your advice but you always make me think.
And being thoughtful and creative should be rewarded. Thank you!
Thanks for the non-DnD content. It’s good to see more fantasy rpgs out there being talked about.
You are welcome. This Monday I will release a video called something like "The CZcams D&D Scandal Just Got Worse!" It's about WHY D&D is so popular and HOW what we click on supports that narrow view. It sounds like clickbait crap, but you will like it.
Warlock! is sick! Most likely you know about that there's another cool game based on Fighting Fantasy - Troika! Can we count on future review of the game?
Thrilled to see you cover this! I'm currently using Warlock! to play the Enemy Within campaign. Half way through the first book now and it's great! And I've never owned or read WHRP core rules.
Glad I could help!
Zweihander sounds crunchy, I think I’ll stay with 3.5.
Warlock sounds interesting
Look up Questing Beasts more in-depth vid about Warlock!
In high school my friend's dad was a minister. He forbade us from playing D&D because of its reputation. So he okayed Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
Lol. In Power Behind the Throne, Petra Liebkosen means "to touch lovingly." She's obviously a prostitute. Boy did you fool him.
I'm here 7 days after this video got out just so I could stick it to the algorithm!
I got Tomb of Gyzaengaxx backed as soon as it went live. I can't wait
Cool. Thanks!
Hi Prof. DM! Thanks for covering these other games. I'm always looking for something interesting to try.
You are welcome.
Brotherhood of the Wolf--nice! An interesting film that I don't think got the attention it deserved...
I saw it in an empty theater with 3 people total and was blown away. Such a cool movie.
Love to hear more of this content. Great reviews. As a GM for WFRP 4e I'd certainly be tempted to try these systems out.
Glad you enjoyed it. I love showing people cool games.
Thanks for the review PDM.
Thanks for commenting!
Shadow of the Demon Lord is basically Warhammer D20. You should check it out. Written by Robert Schwalb as well.
I have it and agree.
I'd also recommend Blackbirds RPG if you want a more "heroic" style compared to Zweihander!
I just picked up Warlock. I kind of like Zweihander a little better but warlock is really cool too I'm glad I ended up grabbing both. I feel like Warlock will be easier to talk D&D players into like you mentioned. Those damn d20 people *shakes fist*
Been on the fence about Warlock for a couple of years - I'm all in after watching this and regret I didn't go for it earlier.
Thanks for supporting indie games!
Thank you for the review, PDM. I had not heard of either of these products until now.
You are welcome!
I really wanted to like OG Zwei, ran a campaign for several months. There were things I liked, like the damage threshold and critical hits. But I felt it had too many little subsystems, the weapons were kind of confusing, and we ended switching over to Renaissance Deluxe, a more traditional D100 system. Zwei was also big; 1,200 pages of rules between the core book and 1st supplement. I'll stick with my OG 1E WHFRP for that kind of play.
Warlock looks fun, but I have so many systems already. :)
Renaissance is excellent. As is Clockwork And Chivalry (basically Renaissance engine with clockwork war machines and magic in the 1600s...Great fun).
Your videos, most-best to least-best:
Adventure talk-throughs, Game reviews, (big gap), WotC Goss.
I like all your stuff, but you seem most animated - and therefore most engaging and watchable - when you do videos like this one that you are clearly happy to talk about.
Thanks. You are correct. These videos don't get many views, though. To see why, watch Monday's video. Even though it's click-baity.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Maybe try this title:
BETTER Than Warhammer?! Zweihander & Warlock! (Ep. 372), plus HOTT WotC GOSS!
Then add thirty seconds at the end of the video saying something ludicrously scurrilous about WotC execs.
It would be an inside joke to the big-brained, and clickbait for the small!
I'm really gonna need Deathbringer to up his insult game. Lately he's been informative, but i prefer his deeply personal and hurtful insults of PDM.
Cannibal Kender!
I picked up the Zweihander box set and love it, but I don't have Warlock. I'm going to have to correct that oversight. Fantastic video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really like Warlock I need to read my copy instead of just skimming it. Might convince my group to play it sometime!
I've been waiting to hear about Warlock! from PDM. Our group found Zweihander too tedious, so maybe Warlock is the answer... I always find d20 games to be an easier sell.
Have both… tweaking Warlock! atm to make it more in line with WHFP buuuut keeping the simplicity of Warlock!
Thank you for watching!
What kind of changes did you make? I'd like to see that.
@@n4tune8 Google Warlock RPG house rules. I took liberally from that person's page, notably the willpower stat idea for both sanity/additional casting stat points. I am also adding talents from the whfrp but modified so that each profession opens meaningful options beyond skill purchases... Finally I took ALL the supplements and their professions and made it into a D6 set of tables for character creation. If you keep the random roll results you start with bonus xp
Good review. I remember some friends were so upset with Warhammer 3rd edition.
I was too. Although the art was great.
Warhammer fantasy RPG was my first love in tabletop scene. We moved to 2ed and played many great campaigns. I still have my old beat-up 1ed book. I knew the system had its flaws, but the setting...oh wow so awesome and rich. Thanks for this review, happy the setting and grim dark style continues on
Zweihander's core book has an extensive amount of content in it, alone. It's all you would need and more. I regularly complain about core books providing minimal content for GMs in them just so they can spread it out over multiple costly books. The current WFRP 4e steps a foot into that category. WFRP4 is great but the aforementioned content spread and the large amount of editorial errors in the core book alone are frustrating. At least that's one issue Zweihander doesn't have.
As for Warlock! and it's 40k equivalent, Warpstar, they're great for lightweight and, therefore, are easy to hack and house rule. Warlock also takes some inspiration from Advanced Fighting Fantasy RPG which is another underrated lightweight system that cuts out some slow bits of the action yet still keeps to a skill-based system with plenty options. It's especially good for small or one-PC groups.
I love all Dungeoncraft videos and want to see all of them on my feed.
I love how the idol only has one eye left. lol
Don't think characters have hit points in zweihander. I was under the impression armor did not absorb damage but made your damage threshold higher.
I already got WHFR4e because of one of your videos! So I'm not getting those (yet, Warlock seems nice and easy). I didn't have much else to feed the algorithm with. Thanks for the excellent videos.
Glad you like them!
I'm looking forward to running Warhammer soon, hope my players are ready 😆
Impossible
Okay I wanna get Zweihander just to add the classes to my warhammer 4e games.
Awesome, pdm gives a shout out to "brotherhood of the wolf"
GREAT movie!
Warlock! Favorite UK gritty wacky grimdark jobbased fantasy i own ^^
Zweihander - when Warhammer is too rules light for you
Zweihänder, when you steal another game's rules.
@nerzenjaeger Except it's not theft.
Even if it was, good artists create, great artists steal.
@@douglascolquhoun8502 It kinda is, especially if you're then alluding to the same setting that's the brainchild of some cool chaps like Rick Priestley. And even though that's a nice saying you have there, you will find it doesn't apply nearly as often in real life.
@@nerzenjaeger it applies to game rules, though (not positioning here, just stating)
@@nerzenjaeger GW: "You're trying to kidnap what I rightfully stolen."
I like the old school approach these games are taking.
It is nice to see a resurgence.
Rules leaving things up to GM's discretion is something I enjoy, because even the same thing can have a different outcome or function different in various situations. That is a bit harder to do with exact & detailed rulings.
The art in both of these are sick!
It's "Tsvi-hender", by the way. The "i" like in "Twilight".
Will correct in future videos.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I remembered how happy you were about knowing the correct pronunciation of "Mörk Börg". :)
A "Z" in German is almost always a "Ts" sound. As hard as you can expect from our language. :D
Warlock is a great system. I kept up with getting all the supporting supplements until the designer decided to drop the cool b&w art and started making books with AI generated art. Wish he would switch back. They also released a Warhammer 40k equivalent called Warpstar using the same rules set that was also really good.
Well, glad I read this comment before I spent money. Guess I'll just stick to Dragonbane...
Thank you for presenting on this game system
Good review- excellent breakdown on the mechanics (with examples) - players need to know there are more games to play besides 5e -
Super interesting video again! Thanks! BTW: About pronunciation of "Zweihänder". The german letter 'ä' is actually pronounced as you would in English (like in 'hand' or 'and'). If its only the 'a' without the dots, then it would be like 'aaah'.
That's a nice Unicursal hexagram
No Zweihänder, thank you. Looking forward the next video
Excellent and brief reviews. I like seeing gritty game system options are still out there. As much as I tried to get into Warhammer back int he day, everyone refused to stray from their monogamous D&D love affair. I like the simple easy to read style of Warlock and Zweihander looks like it really comes with a lot of value the boxed set. I just got my gaming circle interested in playing Deadlands -- now I think I will try one of these puppies in the future!
The Warlock! collection of little hardback books is very large. I know, I own the whole thing near as I can tell. 😅
Thanks for this great review! I've been intrigued by both games and used to play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay back in the late 80's so I have familiarity with the system. I'm now considering grabbing Warlock to get ideas for the campaign I run for my daughter and her friends. Cheers!
Sold out! Zwiehander ist kaput! Not really you can get it other places. The starter kit apparently came out in 2022?
We have restocks on the shop for the remaining inventory we have for Starter Kits. This begins the reprint to get Core Books back on shelves.
@@WorldofGameDesign Thanks. I purchased a copy from Amazon while you were temporarily out.
I've seen a lot of videos in my lifetime and THIS was one of them.
Lol. Good one.
Forgive me, I will never presume to correct a professor or a DM, but the two dots above that A mean that the a in händer would be pronounced like in the English word "hand".
I kept up with German after I took it in college. It's like a second language to me. 😂
As always wonderful material and always a fun learning experience mit herr Professor Dungeon Master.
Tschüss!
I pronounced it wrong. I'll ge tit right in future episodes.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1right on. I felt like a snot nosed punk saying anything because objectively, you're clearly more accomplished and more learned than I am, and I believe it's important to respect that. ✌🏼
The Zweihander link is all sold out, but I found it on Amazon for $17.50.
It's back in stock. We keep bringing more in.
Nice!
Could you please take a look at Streets of Peril? It is Warhammer D6 dice pool
i wrote for the zine! awesome game, super excited for storms over sturmburgh.
Jeez, $25 for a pdf?
@@daniell7439 me too, it looks so great. Sadly I do not have a group to play it with at the moment
Zweihander's art is incredible, the system seems polished (I would house rule for less crunchy combat). The Warlock seems like a pretty little game, feels old school and classy!
Thank you for the recommendations I think one my friends gonna love Zweihãnder and Warlock!.
All personality things aside, I like them both OK. I tip slightly in preference of Zwei (clone) to WFRP2 and Warlock is great for testing modules b/c it is an OSR with skills. Zwei had Flames of Freedom (Colonial Gothic adaptation) which is primarily why I tested it.
While i appreciate the reviews i still feel hesitant about buying Zweihander, especially with all the bad press around the creator.
Thanks.
Disclaimer: also not Daniel Fox - go try out the Tiny d6 line from Gallant knight games
@@knicknac95 Disclaimer: still not Daniel Fox - You're welcome, I think I will.
Hi - perhaps a dumb question, but Zweihander is NOT a solo rpg, correct? Separately, I see that the Reforged edition is launching soon on Kickstarter. How is that different than this one? Thank you.
It is not, no.
Not sure about Warlock, but the creator of Zweihänder (Ä = A and E at the same time, not A and O) has the worst reputation for being a nobb end.
Don't worry, we are watching the video! :D
Thank you!
Just a quick comment on Warlock - it may seem to be a a bifurcated version of of Warhammer and D20 Systems but in fact underneath it's very influenced by Fighting Fantasy and Advanced Fighting Fantasy. The detail of the art is a direct take on the Black & Line Work of those books, as well as the use of the two statistics Stamina an Luck, even the title Warlock is a direct take from the title of the Fantasy Fighting Magazine which was published during the eighties. All in all though, it looks like a great, compact, ease of use system if you don't like the idea of having to consult a few thousand charts like you would have too do in system such as Rolemaster. And having watched this channel for a while I would take it that Rolemaster would be seen as form of heresy against the entire idea of functional roleplaying.
True. good point!
I am a big fan of WFRP so thank you for this. I am always looking to other alternatives. I would like to learn more about the setting.
It's funny how much Fox used to absolutely hate when folks compared his game to Warhammer, to the point I won't purchase anything made with his involvement. Warlock! on the other hand is like if we had a B/X version of Warhammer, it's great. I know 4E Warhammer has a lot of classes, but it does let you play those politics games rather than combat heavy ones, so that's fun and I'll probably stick to it.
I will say, much like D&D 4e, WFRP3 lost people but was still something of a commercial success - D&D 4e was way more of a success than its critics often consider...
3rd had GREAT art.
The way Zweihänder handles corruption and alignment is sublime, a great mechanic to actually represent moral grayness and the influence of a violent and dark world on an individual. Never liked Warhammer, mostly the lore but also mechanics-wise, but I'm actually finding it enjoyable to run Zweihänder. My players otoh are ZH 1&2 veterans and they also seem to prefer the ZH mechanics (they are actually way less clunky and more streamlined than it seems), and it's easier for me to diverge from their expectations of dark fantasy and for them to follow when the GW serial numbers have been filed off, so to speak.
As for Warlock - read the rules, seems simple, but didn't click. Maybe I'll give it a chance one day, but definitely keeping ZH's Alignment.
11:36 that artwork is a wonderful omage to the Darkest Dungeon games. Hard not to recognize helion!
This got my attention. Warhammer was the first rpg we played. I'm not in the mood for delving through hundreds pages of rules so I welcome this starting set. Should be enough material for an occasional game.
Any tips on speeding up combat in Zweihander?
Where can we order the nifty dice that are in the box?
Is Zweihander set in the WH world?
Would you consider giving an overview of Zweihander supplements, adventures and other books?
Lots of questions: (1) don't allow dodge and parry. (2) dunno. they come with the box (3) No (4) Probably not, because those videos do not perform well. I reviewed "Power Behind the Throne" for WFRP and it got VERY few views. And it's GREAT!
OK. But I think you did review the ezd6 advertenture book. There should be a new setting book soon.
I have the Warlock ... like it. Haven't seen/purchased Zweihander (yet)
.
Don't fall for it.
So great to see some other games, Nice work, love it.
Cool review! I love it when you talk about Warhammer on your channel. I recommend taking a look at Kobayashi's Fleaux, a WFRP-inspired hack with similar rules to the Black Sword Hack.
That's on my list. I LOVE his games.
You know it's a fantasy game when the career advancement is actually something you can expect to experience
Professor, I really wish you dug a little deeper into the the differences between Warlock! and WFRP. It’s a significantly more streamlined game, and takes quite a few concepts from Fighting Fantasy like the luck attribute.
All true. Time constraints.
Professor, you should really take a look at Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon. The first is a setting, the second a version of D&D that is as medieval-authentic as it gets... Seems right down your alley! :-D
And there's a new edition (of sorts) about to be published, set in 12-13th century Poland, so Witcher vibes, smaller settlements and a more grim world, compared to L&D medieval setting.
Yay, RPG content about how and what to play!
Glad you enjoyed it. There IS a video coming that is very clickbaity, about how TTRPG functions. Watch it anyway. It’s a game changer.
Zweihander Is a great game.
Thanks for commenting!
Zweihander is pretty cool, but much as I love the career system in the Warhammer family, EZD6 really spoiled both me and my players when it comes to rules 😅
I love EZd6, it’s so much fun to run.
Nice review! I had heard of these, but it's great to see what you're getting!
THANK you for watching.
We played a short campaign of Zweihander and the Fire Ruby Design Warlock! books for the core of my homebrew setting. Love both!
I'll have to try this out some day.
My impression...
Warhammer: PCs are incompetent and die quickly.
DnD: PCs are overcompetent and invincible.
I like players to be competent yet vulnerable.
Not sure if Zweihander of Warlock fit that space since I haven't played either.
Warhammer characters are WAY more resilient than AD&D characters because of Fate Points. I'd say they are competent but the power levels are toned down and progress in Warhammer is slower.
The average stat in WH is 30% and progression is very slow. That's why I find WH PCs incompetent. It's like being stuck at level 0 for a very long time. Success rate should be higher than 30%. It should be around 50% and even higher for something you re supposed to be good at.
Elves had higher stats, making everyone wanna be an elf.
Magic users started with one petty spell and suffered even more from slow progression (they get either an extra spell or higher stat but not both).
Other than that, I like d100, inverting fice results, rolling doubles, fate and fortune points, corruption and insanity, lasting injuries and slow healing, social standing... but not the low stat block and stagnant progression.
Thanks for the reviews! You're awsome for sharing this stuff. Warlock looks cool. I wonder about Warpstar, Warlock's sci-fi brother. A review on that would be nice. Still, dependeing on the content, a review on that might be redundant. I know you dont cover much sci-fi but I remeber your review of Vast Grimm. My wife hates tha cover of that book and she calles the game "Thumping Guts". Its a nice rpg in my collectuon I keep hidden from her! :) Ha! Oh well.
I think Warpstar runs best looking at it from a 1st edition 40k setting; chaotic and 80s punk w/out Chaos destroying everything. The empire is 'evil' enough to give you grim dark.
Love all of dungeon craft videos.... ❤
Thank you.
I was a fan of 1e long ago. Glad to see D&D isn't the only OSR going on.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for another awesome video, ProfDM! I've not played either game, but the video inspired me to grab both to at least read. I will admit that Warlock! is the more attractive to me personally and that is purely because I prefer the d20 curve over percentile. I love the world of WFRP, but the system has never been my favorite . I am not a big fan of crunch and prefer to let the story the characters are building take center stage. Again, my personal preference amd I applaud the effort put into the games!
Thank you SO much for watching and taking the time to comment!