Design Crossovers for HiFi speakers using Xsim - Tips and Tricks
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- #howto #diyaudio #HiFi
Xsim is one of my favorite programs to design a crossover in. It is very powerful and the best part, there are some ways to use this to become even more efficient. In this video I will teach what is needed to get started as well as some shortcuts that you may not be aware of.
Download Xsim for free: www.libinst.com/Xsim/
Find your Z-offset: • Improving your Crossov...
Measurement Equipment used: parts-express.sjv.io/doW1kW
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I learned a lot in this video, but the thing I learned the most is that I know nothing about designing crossovers lol.
Haha! Well good thing we are friends then 😀
Same here. I feel so dumb now... 🙈
Could you please make videos on driver phase alignment and ideally how it should look, also good and bad impedance response for a particular crossover. more tutorials of XSIM will help a lot.. Thanks for all your wonderful videos.
Great video. Didn't know about the component power dissipation functionality. Also learned how to take driver offset into account by comparing an unfiltered driver measurement with an unfiltered simulation. Keep up the good work!
Designing a crossover is just the start. After the speaker cabinet build, you still have to tweak the values as you measure and listen. Excellent software. Thanx for the overview. Shortcuts too 👍
This is a great walk-through of X-Sim, thanks for doing this. I learned quite a few things I didn't know about the program. Looking at your videos makes me realize just how bad my videos are. :)
About time I subscribed - just getting into speaker building and I'm feeling Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and Your channel are my best friends here!
Mind Blown. Crossovers have been a mystery to me
Wow really impressed... Thank you!
Could you please make a video like this, but for measurements? Like from the speaker set up (in box or standalone?) the exact software and what to click to time-gate the response. And maybe other nuances like volume?
Thank you. Very informative. Looking forward to more of these videos
Thanks for watching!
Great video Toid, but I think things like baffle step may be missed out here, is there a way to simulate it in xsim so the filter takes that into account?
Wow perfect timing, ive been planning my crossover in xsim
Greetings, just saw your video for the first time. You're doing some very cool stuff that's way pass my capabilities. I salute you for making it look so easy..Peace out.
Thank you for the kind words. They are much appreciated.
Bookmarked! Thanks for showing!
I am gearing up for a speaker build next year!!
Nice! Let me know if you need any help. I am always up for collaborating
That would be awesome! Thank you for offering!
Great video, can you select the type of capacitor ? Will it change the curve ? And inductor also..
👍👍
Great video! I hope you can show how changing individual values affects time alignment of the drivers. I want do modify my existing crossover to be more time aligned by slightly changing capacitance or inductance.
Great suggestion!
I learned a lot of new stuff! Thanks!
Sweet! Glad to hear it!
do you have a video on how to buy and choose what type of resistor, capacitor, and inductors? also on inductors and capacitors when tuning them what does the esr stand for or mean
Really great video on a really good piece of software.👍
Hello @Toids how are you ? Great video . Very informational . So let's say for a cap, you only find a 6.8uf but you need and 8.0 . Is it best to put two caps together or just one cap and a resistor thank you so very much keep up the great work.
Theoretically I could REALLY use this program! (If I even had a computer AND I knew how to use it anyway)
I'm just a speaker hobbyist, definitely not a professional, but I've always just designed and built everything totally by EAR, and whatever "sounds best", just using my basic knowledge of how individual components work together.
I don't have any kind of real, "professional" audio test equipment, I only have a basic multimeter, and a calculator, because that's all I've ever been able to afford. That results in some decent sounding speaker designs, (I have to just use drivers and parts from speakers I find in the trash or sometimes from my local thrift stores or garage sales, etc.), but this program would definitely take anything I built to the next level!
I REALLY wish I could actually afford a computer AND this program, because what all it can do and show automatically is totally awesome! But I would ALSO need to take a year long college class on how to use it AND the computer itself, because anything related to computers I just DON'T understand. The closest thing I ever get to using a computer is my cellphone that I'm watching this video on, of which I barely even know how to use fully. I'm NOT very computer skilled...
Computers have always totally lost me in the attempted comprehension of what each one of their keyboard buttons do, especially since all of their individual functions change completely, based on whatever screen you're on or what you're doing on it. (And forget about "virtual" buttons on a "touchscreen" itself, that ALSO always change, that just makes it all the more difficult for me to comprehend, lol!) I just never know what to push or in what order, in order to make the computer do anything productive for me.
(I can only remember ONE function for each button, knob, switch, or lever, on ANY piece of equipment or device/machine. I'm just "old skool" like that.)
This program still LOOKS cool though!
Thank you for sharing this useful information. I am a newby when it comes to building speakers and I am very interested in learning the vital info
You're welcome. If you're a newbie, you might want to check out HiFi Vega channel tonight at 7:00 pm cst. we're going to have a big announcement that might be helpful to you.
m.czcams.com/video/pQtZRy46k2c/video.html
Which do you prefer, X-Sim or Passive Crossover Designer? I'm partial to PCD after watching your excellent tutorial.
I love this one!
Thank you, great stuff
My pleasure!
Do you have any videos where you are actually designing a crossover? Like what characteristics you look for in a well tuned speaker? What should your graphs look like. How do you know if a resistor is going to over heat?
Things like this.
I use Xsim 3D to design active crossovers. It is pretty good. I then transfer the design over to boxsim as it will optimize the design and produce all the directivity plots and things that Xsim won't do.
Hi! Great videos! I was wondering about the ohms, resistence. is that curve at 17:18 ok for a final filter? If mine looks like that can I be happy? Thx!
Hi, have you thought about doing a step by step tutorial of measuring drivers at home? Or can you recommend one. I did not find a simple guide for beginners to measure drivers and create the frd files. Ideally using free software. Thanks
This should help: czcams.com/video/zW5ZjN-gp_Q/video.html
Thanks for posting, always find these videos useful. I have been using PCD for the z offset until now. Didn't realise this did the same, its a bit easier on xsim. One question though. Your video showed 90 odd db as as the sensitivity. mine only shows 66db. I assume you measured 1w 1m to get to that result?
Don't get too caught up in the sensitivity of your drivers for simulation purposes. These were measurements I took myself, so whatever measurements you use will be at the SPL that you took your measurements from. As long as you're above your noise floor, you should be fine. If you want to know the true sensitivity of the speaker system you create, then you would want to measure it at one watt one meter.
You have tutorials on a couple of programs that help you create crossovers...which one is the most accurate?
If or when I could afford the speakers, I'm calling on you bro.
Sounds good 👍
Nice intro to the program.
Glad you like it
Thanks for teaching the keyboard shortcuts. Doing it with mouse only is tedious!
Is Xsim an accurate simulator? Will it get you close enough to fine tune by ear?
Can you explain how you measured the frequency response of the speakers for the frd file?
This should get you started: czcams.com/video/zW5ZjN-gp_Q/video.html
11:54 "three ten watt resistors in parallel" - resistance in series sums. In parallel, the total resistance value would be less, dissipating less wattage.
Thanks a million for this video. It showed me something I didn't know I didn't know. Now I know how to account for it. I'll be sure to do z-offset in the future.
Absolutely. Great point! I wasn't trying to say use the same resistor value (of 10 ohm. That value would need to change. The easiest would be to use three 30 ohm resistors to get the same value of 10 ohm. You would definitely want to simulate that if you weren't sure what to do there. I didn't want to get too deep into that, since that wasn't the topic at hand.
Keep the lighting, it feeds the "Evil Genius" vibe. Mwahahahah.
I seriously need to start messing around with the software more. I kept wondering where you got some of your stats, and now I know (GI Joe!).
Knowing is half the battle 😁
Question when your building a speaker cabinet and it tells you the inside volume of the speaker cabinet does the program also take into account the space used by wood bracing or the ports? or insulation? Also would be great to see you do a build a Sealed enclosure (Not sure if I seen you build one like that.) Perhaps model after the $2,000 pair of Klipsch model 5 speakers. Even considered if you could design a speaker cabinet with used speakers that make them sound good. Or perhaps find a older speaker cabinet that needs a modern crossover to make it sound better then show the before and after. I have lots of great ideas for you lol.
It does not take into account the bracing or the ports. If you use a program like bass box pro, it can take into account the insulation.
I do have some older speakers that I want to do some revisions on basically redo the crossover. But I have a few things ahead of that
I have just one question. When purchasing your Inductors and Capacitors, how do you choose them based on the ESR value you entered for them? I can't find any ESR values listed on the components (air coil or capacitor). For example an Aircoil of 1 mH with an ESR of 350 m[R].
Is the Z-offset the distance horizontally (as viewed from above the speaker cabinet) between the voice coils?
CAN YOU RECOMEND PARTS FOR BUILDING A JBL L100 ??
Currently building a set or 2 of speakers but going through the xsim and fptrace is taxing sometimes. Might have to stop into the forum like you said..
Whats the best way to design for a speaker with multiple speakers in a line array module such as Martins WPL
Nice
I built a beautiful pair of speakers and I bought the crossover already built from Dayton. The speakers boxes are made from reclaimed hard maple and they look beautiful and they sound good to me but I really need to learn but this is very confusing to me.
Isn't Z-offset already reflected in a phase measurement if it was taken in one session for all drivers on a finished baffle?
So heres a question: what do you do if you have drivers with unknown parameters, unknown manufacturer, and no zma or other files? Is there a generic setup we can use for the frequency responses?
I would like to plan my own floor standing Heco Aurora 1000 copy. If i plan these is there a forum where i can show it for someone with better understanding and experience?
Absolutely. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/forums
@@Toid Also thank you for making these videos! It makes things much easier to understand how things work and makes at least my learning so much faster.
hey man great information in this video but i have a problem i have the sica 8 M 1,5 CS 8Ω mid the sica 10 Fe 3 CP woofer and the visaton SC 10 N - 8 Ohm tweeter and i cannot find frd files for them, which means i cannot operate on xsim do u know where i could find the drivers ??
Seems like everything you did was based on having a model of a driver to start with. Where do you get those models? I use EASE in my pro audio design world to model speaker coverage and most manufacturers provide gll files to use in the model. Do manufacturers provide models for this software?
Thanks
I noticed a lack of ZMR/FRD files for compression drivers, probably because of the horn effect on the response.
What to do then?
Do you measure the actual response and impedance of the drivers or do you just go by the spec sheet?
I use the actual measured responses.
@@Toid OK
Hello sir.... I'm testing woofer with DAT V3 and modelling with Bass box 6....pls HOW DO I UPLOAD T/S PARAMETERS ....or those those files you took from your laptop
Our toid went full halloween with his lighting...!
Haha, you know it.
I m trying to build a 2 way bookshelf speaker, I had one question bugging my mind actually In case of woofer as you put it in a box (I'm making a sealed) the output of the woofer will drop gradually towards low frequencies...so DO YOU NEDD TO COMPENSATE FOR IT ANY WAY?
What is the average wattage goes to the tweeter in a 3 way setup. I need to reduce the tweeter 15db and using a 8 ohm resistor to do so. The graph simulates 91 watts to the tweeter at a 100 watts from the power amp and don't want to overheat it. Should I run a 100w resistor or something else to reduce the dbs.
That sounds more like you would want to rethink the tweeter branch, add a suitable (smaller C) capacitor in series or check if your tweeter impedance is 4 Ohm instead of 8 Ohm for example? :o
шикарно
How do you take impedance measurements if you don't have a dats? I only have a measuring microphone.
There are instructions online to make measurement jigs. Sorry I don't have the sources off the top of my head but try googling "DIY impedance jig" or something similar.
If you don't have Dats, you can build an impedance measuring rig. It is cheap, but you will still need to calibrate it. Honestly at the price DATS is, I would rather just pick it up. It has calibration built into it. And it should last for a very long time. I still use my DATS V2, and I have been using the same one for a very long time.
You seem to be applying full 6dB BSC. Isn't that too much for a normal room?
Okay... And if I don't have the equipment to make the files myself, and they aren't provided by, say, Parts Express or Dayton, how do I get these files?
Hey @Toids how are you? I'm looking to upgrade my crossover in my Polk audio monitor 70 series 2 towers. I'm a little loss. I've been following the channel for some time , but I want to build own crossovers for them speakers. But need guidance. Been watching your videod on how to build your own crossovers but being as though I don't have a laptop nor a CPU it's harder for me to understand the different components and what the numbers mean the type. Is there a way you can help me with this project or if you can point me in the right direction cuz I don't know what components to use or anything like that. Even if you do help or not thank you for what you do I appreciate you still.
Why don't you head over to the Forum and we can see if we can help. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/forums
Hi,where I find the files .frd and .zma of Vifa P17WJ00 04 and Vifa Dx25BG60 04? Thank you!
Quick suggestion; light yourself from above eyes rather than below, also use a modifier (anything, umbrella, softbox, bounce card, doesn't matter). Will help tremendously make you NOT look like a horror movie speaker designer.
Will Xsim model a 4-way system? Also, I don't see a symbol for an L-pad. Is there one?
Yes it will. And I’ll pad is just two resistors, one in parallel and one and series. You would have to design that network yourself.
Yes it will. And I’ll pad is just two resistors, one in parallel and one and series. You would have to design that network yourself.
You said 6db is enough at the crossover point to be in phase I need to know why and where to find that information.
It's all over but here's one source that might be able to explain it for you. testhifi.com/2019/07/05/loudspeaker-phase-response/
@@Toid Thank You
@@noahtheviking1 you're welcome
Brother I need help with JBL 4311b crossover. Can you help?
Simulation is the one part. The correct parts are the other side. Use 400v caps and free air inductors and moc resistors. You build your crossover only once.
Wattage Post CrossOver...................................?
I would be curious to compare gross wattage input versus net wattage per driver driven after the crossover. Or maybe at 1 watt in, as a standard. I would think the difference would indicate a crossover efficiency, if there is such a thing.
I bought me some tweeter midrange and woofer. I need help designing a 3 or 2 way crossover. Can anyone help me?
How to get speaker data FRD sir
I will soon be getting 15" Audio Nirvana speakers. $370 is a bit steep just to create a frd file.
Is it possible to create it from suppliers spec sheet ?
That's to create frd and zma files. You can buy a cheaper mic. But as of right now, at least at Parts Express, most of the cheaper USB mics are out of stock. You do have to take measurements of the drivers inside your cabinet. But if you don't want to buy what you need, you could see if you can find someone that owns the measurement equipment that would be willing to help you out.
So in order to get the z offset you need to make ACTUAL measurements? Not use manufacturer published specs?
i started on xsim a few days ago i want to make a 3 way crossover but because i have professional components, the frd and zma files weren't available i have the sica 10fe 3 cp 8Ω woofer the sica 8m 1,5cs mid and the visaton sc 10 n tweeter i'll send the pdfs too.Now i got the curves from graph tracer and edited them, with paint 3d i erased everything except the frequency and impedance charts everything works in xsim, i noticed tho that the curves of the drivers, are not aligned with the x and y axes of xsim based on the factory pdf. Is it possible to adjust the axes of xsim so that the curves appear as they do in the factory pdf?? and if so how? As you guys can see for yourself in the crossover photo i sent the frequency of each driver if you compare them to the factory pdfs does not align they start at more hz and more dbs i would really appreciate an answer cause i cannot align them.
Is this possible without impedance messurement? If not how do i messure impedance? Thanks
You need proper impedance measurements. The best way to get this is using Dats V3. You can get it from here and use the code TOID to get 5% off. parts-express.sjv.io/jW7oZb
hello brother i need your help
i have B&C 15nw76 speaker and selenium D305ti compression driver i want to make crossover can you help me please
Isn’t resistance measured in ohms?
Take a look at vituixcad. You will like it
why put the resistor first before the capacitor I think it's better the other way around, it levels off the charge of the cap, I always see the resistor first not sure why that is??
This may help: czcams.com/video/zoLBnEdVP6c/video.html
Given that 100W is approaching the threshold of pain, and 5W is plenty for normal listening, what is the relevance of talking about 100W?
link software nya
So basically I don't need to know math anymore.
Whoa that is out of phase
Please, How have I got contact with you by facebook?
This looks too advanced for me... I'd rather buy a premade crossover or component set with crossover included 😅
Haha! Seriously, that's a great way to do it!
I may go that route, but want to know how design works so I know which to buy.
Mid bass is not a sub woofer
You didnt really talk about the impedence graph much. Do we need to care about that when designing? Seems impossible to keep it in range without massive caps.
You do need to worry about the impedance. If you’re having a hard time, keeping it in range it’s possible you have to much overlap in your crossover region. Because there are other things that might be causing this. If you want, you can show your results on the forum and we can see what might be causing the issue. Www.toidsdiyaudio.com/forums
@@Toid by in range, I mean it looks sort of like the one in the video with a huge peak that goes off the chart. It does not drop below the target minimum
@@pilotdog68 I’d recommend you put some pictures on the forum and we can take a look at it
@@Toid just posted, thanks
Solve problem with phase by change + to - is not a best idea, because drivers will work with different phase
This is common practice in crossover design. In fact, reversing polarity has been used in crossover design for years. Of course it always depends on what type of crossover you're doing. For example a second order liquids Riley will always be reverse phase.
Next time no underneath lighting please :) Just screen and voice. :))) Looks like you're very scare to show something useful and try make video longer with no reason . Take various 10 examples of crossover designs and make it in real time? Try it :) Ppl will learn more. Btw passive crossovers not to long will be needed unfortunately ( next 3- 5 years). Active ones become more and more cheaper and easier to work with.
It was all recorded at the same time. I'm just going back and forth between the cameras. So there's no added time, in fact I took over 7 minutes out of the video.
Grosse daube !! si ont a pas le moyen de créer de fichier FRD et ZMA ce logiciel et vos explications ne valent rien !!!