Eps 364 - LPVO For Hunting - Is It Really Better?
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast!
Affiliate Links - help support the channel at no additional charge to you
Use Code RSO10 at checkout for either Diamond Blade Knives or Knives of Alaska, and get 10% off your first purchase.
www.diamondbladeknives.com/
www.knivesofalaska.com/Home
Shell Shock
Use code RSO10 at checkout to get 10% off your purchase
Shop Shell Shock: alnk.to/6TzzKuj
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
As a north Idaho brush Hunter, the LPVO does exceptionally well at finding a hole through the limbs and brush.
I just bought a new 30-06
Speaking about LPVOs, I bought a cheap 2-7 power with a mildot reticle, that allows me to adjust my hold for range differences. I bought cheap cause I just wanted to try the reticle type. I put it on my BL-22 and found it really helped me adjust my hold out to 100 yards without changing my 50 yard zero. I have thought about swapping it over to my .308 to use out to 200 yards for my cast bullet silhouette matches, so I don't have to adjust my sights for 50-100-150 and 200 yards .
Love you stuff Ron, I watch lots of your no BS non-tacticool programs.
I agree Ron Stick to the two to ten! I hunt Deer in Mississippi and have hunted mainly with leupolds for 45 yrs and I have used a vari x2 in 2-7power and eventually changed to a vari x 3.5 to 10 power! Most of my deer are taken inside 75 yards and most of them are taken under 50 yards! And I have taken a few from 100 yards out to 300 yards . I don’t hunt areas that I have that kind of distance. Hunting in hardwood timber I seldom have a shot over 75 to 80 yards! Oh I hunt with a 270 now but most of my deer were killed with 30-06 Ruger mod77 I purchased in 1979 I passed it on to my Son 4 or 5 yrs ago!
I’ve been using the vx2 2-7 for a long time, light weight and just enough optic for 300 yards though my majority is under 100.
If I buy a 7mm book will you inscribe it “ I wrote this whole book about 7mms but we both know there’s only one… the 7mm Rem Mag!” ?
28 Nosler has entered the chat, 7x57 was already here
@@shootingatshadowcongrats on taking something literal when it was clearly not meant to be such
The 3006 is as good as ever,ditto the 7 rem mag,270 win.this new generation wants high bc high velocity and low recoil.you can't tell an old fart like me that the 6.5 cm is as versatile as my 7mag or my3006.argue as much as you want.im not buying. My answer to the 6.5.the 250 savage in a super slick model 99.no really high bc's but I have my 7mag 160 nosler accubond for long range.look at your numbers a t 600yds.goodluck mr/Mrs Creedmoor. One excellent thing about the 6.5.is the price of used rifles I'm the big 7,the 06,the270.keep up the good work
5
@@dinoquintana4319 the 6.5s of all sorts of cartridges including the cm get used well past 600 yards so not really sure what your point is, someone saying the CM fits there use case better then the 06 doesn’t mean the old gun stops working so not sure why your so butthurt about it. I hunt with lever guns much older then I am because I want to, the 6.5 cm is still a more versatile cartridge then my 30-30, I’m still going to use the 30-30 because I want to. No reason to cry over someone else’s opinion on what the best firearm for them to spend their own money on is.
For the record my wife has a 6.5cm, savage 110 shoots fantastic and I would have no hesitation to use it for elk at range. I prefer my Weatherby in 7rem mag for western hunting but that savage of hers came with as a backup last year.
@@dinoquintana4319idk 7mm prc really makes both seem hard to justify, problem is it's nearly impossible to get
Ron, I have always LOVED your videos and podcasts, and know you to be very knowledgeable, but this episode really got my attention!!
You talked about the different generation's preferred calibers, yours being more 30-06 biased, to the next down generation being in the .308win or 6.5 anything, and the next generation down being more into 7mm something.
SPOT ON!!
My Dad uses a BAR 30-06, I swap between the .308win my Dad gave me, to my newer 6.5cm.
My younger brother? ...7mm Rem Mag.
You called it so exactly, it's almost weird! 😅
Thank you so very much for sharing all your valuable knowledge, and, for creating such wonderful videos and podcasts!
Thanks Ryan.
Hunted in heavy cover for years with a 2-7X on my BLR. Huge field of view.
Ron this is a great story and thanks again for the great info 👍👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏👏
Thank you Ron for reading my message about the safe queens I have been running the same loads in my collection of calibers for years and the confidence gained is immeasurable. Keep up the good work and the interest up.
Ron, you asked me to let you know about the Ruger SBH in .454casull. Well it still hasnt come in yet.😢 but i will keep you updated as i learn more.
Keep up the interesting and fun videos.
Leupold vx3i 1.5 x 4x20
So you're on the topic of only one rifle so I'm 59 years old and if I could only have one rifle to survive as far as two-legged predators and food on the table, it would most definitely be my Savage 24dh in 22 Magnum and 20 gauge over under single shots!!! And I've been saying that for 40 years. I received that from my dad/ brother when I was 30 years old
The LPVO 1x-up thing is primarily from the AR competition world where the scope acts like a Red Dot for close rapid multi target acquisition stages, ie "CQB" simulation (Close Quarters Battle) and then cranked up to 4x, 6x, 8x or even 10x for longer more precision stages. Hunting were not shooting 5 deer at 10 to 20 yards trying to drop them all before they bolt... Your 100% spot on using 2x and up variable! I used a 2.5 x 10 for years. Worked awesome with my .300Wby Mag stalking in woods for flushing deer up to 425yds across wheat fields! Heck if your ONLY shooting from a blind at a fixed close range, maybe with a shotgun/slugs or straight wall cartridge, like near a feeder, or deer driver in woods, a simple Red Dot may suffice.
I went to an LPVO on my AR in 6.5 Grendel. It is a 1-8X power with a lighted reticle. It's made by Atibal and it has served me well. It doesn't break the bank and the glass is very good. I've taken Whitetails in Georgia from 200 yards and in, with no problem. It's compact, light weight and does the job for me. Thanks for sharing Ron! Good stuff here. God Bless.
DITTOS on the THANKS to Nam Vets. GOD BLESS EM n All Vets
Ron is right that virtually any factory hunting load for the 30-30 is fine for deer at 100 yards and that the +/-3" MPBR does not vary hugely (about 25 yards for the lead-core bullets and about 35 yards if the copper TSX is added in). The difference is for hunters who want to push the 30-30 to longer distances, especially if they want to maintain a certain level of bullet energy at the target.
The big advantage of the Hornady FTX 30-30 cartridge is its longer effective range for deer which can be over 300 yards, well beyond its MPBR of about 235 yards (from a 24" scoped barrel*). The FTX retains about 1000ft-lbs of energy to slightly over 300 yards (where the traditional 3"-high-at-100-yards zero gives 12.5" of drop). This compares to 1000ft-lbs at about 110 yards for Federal's 150gr TSX load or about 160 yards and 200 yards for the 150gr and 170gr classic Core Lokt loads, respectively.
If someone wants 1500 ft-lbs for elk, the FTX doubles effective range to about 125 yards vs the 150 or 170 Core Lokt
*The scope itself adds some distance to MPBR vs iron sights since it is higher above the bore.
Something to keep in mind on LVPO scopes...a 1-10 LVPO will NEVER be as good / usable as a 2-10 scope. CZcamsr "Brass Facts" did a video titled "Is It Possible To Make A Good 1-10x LPVO", and did a good job of showing and explaining why this is the case.
I briefly had a Christensen Arms Mesa in 6.5 CM. The rifle was an epic POS from the start. The chamber was under cut, so if I chambered a round then extracted it with out firing, the bullet was pulled from the case neck, dumping powder all over. This was with any factory and hand loads. It’s a miracle the gun didn’t blow up from excessive pressure. On top of that, the barreled action was out of square with the stock, causing the barrel to touch the inside of the barrel channel on the left side. I had a gun smith re-cut the chamber, and square the barreled action to the stock, then sold it. As far as the barrel break in, I call BS. I have multiple Tikka rifles, I do zero break in, they shoot sub MOA out of the box. I’ll never buy a CA rifle again.
Hi folks. Take care.
I hunt in AL (not saying everywhere there is the same) but the shot distances I take are very similar to the guy in the video. I agree with skipping the bipod. I even put an unmagnified red dot on one 336 and a fixed 3x prism from primary arms on another. I have hunted with the former but not the latter yet. Very nice for those short shots on the fringes of legal light.
There is a few advantages to shooting a true 1 x scope or an LPVO as you americans call it. Sure one of those are that they are quick to shoot. But what people often seem to forget or at least not mention is the ability to shoot with both eyes open. That gives a better picture of all that is happening both before and after the shot breakes, if you have an iluminatet reticel you can even shot it with the front lens covered. Very handy in rain snow and such. The brain seems to work together the two different pictures the eyes give and that works well. If you have not tried it you should. Branches are much easier to se at 1 x and both eyes open. When shooting with both eyes open many feel their flinch going away enough that they can see through their shot. To see what shotreaction the animal had and direction before it disapears into the brush is very handy and helpfull. Yes as many might think of it is great for driven hunts and moving animals but it is also very handy when using a dog. Makes it easy to know were the dog is. Too bad that most american scopes with a 1x capasity has a tactical reticel not really suited for such hunting...
I hunt in AL (not saying everywhere there is the same) but the shot distances I take are very similar to the guy in the video. I agree with skipping the bipod. I even put an unmagnified red dot on one 336 and a fixed 3x prism from primary arms on another. I have hunted with the former but not the latter yet. Very nice for those short shots on the fringes of legal light.
Cool thing with the prisms is that it’s as much power (3x or 5x depending on which one) to do plenty well up close and out to several hundred yards. They’re about the size of a red dot and lighter than many traditional scopes and LPVOs.
Great show to-day Ron!👏👏🙂
Thanks Wayno.
I'm with you Ron on the walnut stocks. However, where I often hear you say you love a walnut stock and a classic blued style, I love a walnut stock and stainless. I like the blued but I love the look of walnut and stainless together. Dark , high grade walnut. Does me liking wood stocks show my age? Oh well. Thanks for another great show Ron!
Try putting a piece of tape on the stock Ron to line it up with the same spot on the front bag?
Hi Ron , just received my Howa 30-06 with a Tasco 6-18x50 scope...will test 150/180 gr Sellior and Bellot ammo , will send you results.Thanks for all the great information
Knives of Alaska!
Best hunting knife you can own.
@@George-tz1cvsecond best the one your custom knife making friend made you for free is still better but you weren’t too far off🤔😳🤣
Made in China!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Junk.
Hi Ron, just a side note on Copper Bullets. You might want to explain what "Bore-Riders" are compared to Banded and Obturating styles. I know the differences but I'd bet many looking at Barnes' website won't. I'm working up a Barnes TTSX 130gr load for my .300Wby Mag for chrony giggles to see if I can make a fastest flattest best group laser beam "just because" HEHE! If it works I'll probably use it on deer to coyotes.
Thanks for the details
cool that yo have on a Mossberg shirt!!
Love my 1-4 on my 450 bushmaster.
For thick woods it's really solid
I miss fixed power scopes. 3x is pretty much all I've ever needed out to 300 for deer.
Most sold Scopes are 3X and above. Since the 1970's and before, 90% were 3X9 1 " scopes. THey are fine for 40 yds and further. But for close cover, when you spook something 20 yds away, useles. At 1X they work as a illuminated Dot sight, and for accross the fiel 8X(Even10X)
There are LPVO scopes in 1-4, 1-6, 1-8, and i think even 1-10. I would think that depending on the specific size and weight of the scope it could be an ideal brush gun scope and also a mountain scope if weights are the least if the max power is enough.
Possibly whenever you change bullet type or brand that could use a different alloy it may affect accuracy? Don’t know if anyone has ever done any precision group comparisons and comparing the alloys?
3P=3 position shooting competition. Standing, sitting or kneeling, and prone.
I have a Christensen Arm mesa FFT in 6.5 PRC. My rifle shot very well (.3 to .6 inch groups), but the chamber was tight to the point that if I tried to eject a load round, the bullet would yank out and stay in the barrel and dump powder all over. I sent it back, they recut the chamber throat and fined tuned my magazine. Total turn around time was only three weeks. My rifle still shoots very well, nothing changed there.
Well Done.
Awaiting the updated 06s results n hopefully there a show on 😉
Making a rutting hole in the back yard tonight. We'll see if it works, or if I end up sleeping in it.
I'm really liking lpvo's as a budget scope for general hunting under 300 yards. For $600 (usually less) you get ilummimatiom, bdc, and up to 10 power depending on the scope. It's not a direct replacement for a 2-7, 2-10, or 3-15/18, but in general, you have to step up to the $1000 + range to get into a good quality, lower power scope. Hunting location, animal type, caliber, and most likely shot distance all factor into my final scope choice for a specific rifle.
I believe the max torque on Patriot action screws is only 25ip? I think that's why they apply some sort of red thread locker to the action screws? I once had one in 300 Win Mag and tightened the action screws to a reasonable 40ip. Suddenly, my rifle sprayed the shots all over at 100 yards! Turns out the higher screw torque actually cracked their plastic bedding block! They replaced it. So if your Patriot does not shoot well, remove the action block and inspect it closely for hairline cracks.
The higher the twist, the higher the bc for a given bullet
1/7 for 223 for 16inch barrel and shorter
1/8 for barrels longer than 16. That’s been with my testing
Can you give a shoutout for 6mm Remington brass to the big brass makers. Would love to have some quality brass. Thanks.
LPVO Is the way to go when hunt in WI. A true 1-4 or 1-6 would serve you well. Got Trijicon TR25 1-6 and never look back. Light weight durable but one thing about a true lpvo is cost.
Wonderful show Ron with all the people after lever guns it might be time for comparison between 30/30 and 7mm/30. I forget the name but sizing 30/30 brass to hold 7mm bullet. It was also chamber it TC contender pistol
The 7mm Waters. I cover it in my 7mm book.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast grrr I keep thinking that was what it's called lol
Learning how to use a “hasty sling” might be more useful for a 30-30 than a bipod.
The scope makers have been increasing the magnification ranges of scopes, so there are numerous 1-10x LPVO scopes available that can take the place of traditional hunting 3-9x or newer 2-10x. Not surprisingly, a higher magnification range usually means more money. The main reason for the 1x is a self-defense or military situation in which you want to keep focus with both eyes on the target and still maintain peripheral vision while using the scope. It is largely to keep situational awareness and to make very rapid target acquisition with the rifle. Before the LPVO's had improved to their current level, it was not uncommon to see a small red dot sight on top of a scope or at an angle on a rail for close quarters combat.
150 grain Barnes TSX in a 30-30 is the best combination there is for Deep South woods, swamp and marsh.
I think it depends on your hunting conditions. If you’re a brush hunter or woods Hunter with some open shooting out to about 200yds then I imagine an LPVO will be perfect.
If you’re hunting elk in the Rockies or Pronghorn in the open plains where you’re highly likely to take a 150-200yd shot and might have to take a 300-400yd+ shot, then an LPVO is probably not the right choice.
If it wasn’t for experimental mentality with reloading I would be able to retire! Trying different bullets , calibers, powders can really be addictive.
Though the old 1 load for 1 rifle really makes it easy
Hey Ron, when you did the 30.06 rifle contest, I loved the lever action you tested, I think it won the accuracy test? Love your utube stuff
Thanks Jeff. Yes, that Browning lever action was the most accurate of the bunch, but since then I retested the Weatherby bolt action and got a .664" 3-shot group with it. Finding the right load makes a huge difference with most rifles.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast that is awesome. I think that would be a great woods rifle or a mountain rifle, easy to maneuver and plenty of terminal performance for anything in north American
Keep It Sharpen.
Low performance visibility optic
Have you tried the all copper expanding bullets by Maker Bullets?
Hey Ron if you still have that 30.06 lever action you used in your comparison, I think it was a Browning blr , I would love to buy it or you could gift it to me 😄 if you still have it. You may have decided to keep it or return it to the manufacturer. I love that rifle in 30.06 in a lever action
take a look at the Swarovski 1-10x. Amazing
Whats up with not getting notifications for new stuff of yours of late ??? Hummm.
Will figure out.
Another word of wisdom from Ron " Be aware of the man with one gun"
RON ,, ILL let you borrow mine, if you want
LOL, been hunting for over 50 years and I had to google LPVO...TGIHD!
I had to google TGIHD and I’m still not certain what it is.
hunting, shots early morning and dusk I am sure for most of us at least east of the Mississippi . Why give up that extra light gathering with a 32-40 objective to have a tacticool lpvo?
The extra light has never made one lick of difference to me, by the time it’s legal shooting you would have to be blind for the difference to matter. Good quality glass with proper coatings is far more important than the size of the lens for being able to see your game.
@@jaydunbar7538 yup, I only use Zeiss, Leupold
agree a fixed power scope even better.
Orange you glad
I tried an lpvo , limited view when compared to the 2-7x33/33 SO, returned it and picked up a much more versatile than the LPVO in my opinion
Really the only reason imo to go with a LPVO is if you plan to spend time at 1 power, both eyes open with a true 1 power gives the best field of view possible for quick reaction shots. Could be a great choice for driven hunts, but otherwise I doubt it will change anything over 2-3x for most people. I always leave my scope at the lowest magnification and I’ve never turned it up to fire at big game, I do live in MN so most of the deer I shoot I could hit with a decent size stick lol
Does my vari-x3 2.5-8 count as an LPVO? I started with it on my 270 Win at 14 years old 25 years ago. :)
Sounds like there’s needs to be a practice of at least keeping a hunt worth of ammo packaged with your rifle. I have a mantra when I head out to go hunting “gun and bullets”. I figure if I end up in the woods in my birthday suit I can still hunt as long as I’ve got a gun and bullets.
If you don’t have data on 30-06 rifle sales, why speculate about it? Your difficulty procuring one could because they are so popular they’re sold out.
You don’t spend much time at gun shops if you actually think that, they just don’t sell so the gun shops just don’t order them. At least the ones I frequent, and I’m in a rural area where bolt and lever guns still rule the woods. Plenty of the ammunition still being purchased, most of my family hunts with 06, but all of those rifles are 20+ years old with most of them at least double that. My uncles rifle he still uses every year hasn’t been in production since the 80s, but he likes the old pump 06.
He said the manufacturers he spoke with were not making them frequently. That’s different from not being able to purchase one at a store. If they were selling out, rational manufacturers would make more of them.
According to the BackfireTV guy, 30-06 is the 7th most stocked chambering for new rifles. The 6.5CM and 6.5PRC are the only 21st century choices higher on the list. The 30-06 has not fallen out of favor, although the 308 and 300WM are higher on the list, along with the 243 and 7RM.
LPVO’s could be an option for shorter range calibers like say a 45-70 lever gun? I find them sorta heavy for what they are as opposed to say a 2-7 x 33 Leupold. The reticles are often a little busy for my preferences. I’d rather not have Aunt Irma’s buttermilk biscuit recipe transposed over my field of view.
Come on Ron this guy is asking you a question about Mossberg rifles and the quality. Obviously he wants a good hunting rifle is there not some other really good rifle in this price range that you could suggest? like a Winchester model 70 which is in the same price range and it’s a beautiful Woodstock rifle.
Not everyone wants a wood stock, and a cheap wood stock may look better but functionally it’s worst then the synthetics. I’ve got a savage with a wood stock sitting around barely used because the stock is twisted up and a new stock is the same cost as the rifle was. The cheap ones also tend to not be fully finished so they have lots of exposed wood allowing moisture in the wood to fluctuate drastically which can destroy accuracy and ruin crack or twist the stock. Have plenty of wood in my gun safes and as a hobbyist woodworker obviously I love the look of a good chunk of wood, but that doesn’t make it the best for everything. Won’t see much wood at a target competition for a reason.
Get whatever stock you want. Ron is the one that mention wood but if you prefer a Mossberg rifle well then fantastic great for you.
Raise your hand if you have a 30-06, keep it raised if you’ve ever burned out a barrel.. nobody,
Are you sure? Not a single one?
Lpvo's are fine for hunting/shooting during the day. But, for hunting in the low light hours nothing beats objective size and construction. Lpvo's just don't have the light gathering ability.
Good video. Go Vets. Go Trump.
Come on ron you know what Christiansen arm said your gas lighting us
All the gun writers and videos are gaslighting and if your just now coming to this conclusion your in a pretty sad mental shape😱 Having a life of 60+ years of gun collecting as well as a hunter and reloading and by my last count a little over 2,500 guns bought and owned over that time the writers are here to make a living at what they love and as long as you remember that you will not be so critical of others and you just might learn something new but in your case I doubt it😳
Chistiansen Arms said to send it back and they'd check it out and get back to us. They got back merely saying the rifle had been a rush job (no 30-06 in stock) to meet our filming dates, so they hadn't built it correctly. That's paraphrasing. I've not idea what was built incorrectly. Might have been any number of things, the point being that they were going to correct the incorrect and get the rifle back to us for further testing -- but that hasn't happened yet. I've put in another call for an update. No word yet. Sorry.
1/10 for a 243!
I have my .243win with a 1 in 7.5" twist. I can stabilize upto 115 gr. bullets. I've never shot 115gr in it but I shoot 112gr under moa at 1200 yards.
Way too slow!
@@lucasvaughn629 no it's actually the perfect twist rate from everything from 55 to 100 grains. Its been the industry standard from when it was introduced till the fast twist rage a few years ago. I have two rifles in 1/10 and one each of 1/9, 1/8, and 1/7. The 1/10's will shoot one hole groups measuring .2 to .3 at 200 yards with 55's to 100 grainers. The 1/10's outshoot all three faster twist guns. If I wanted to shoot over a 100 grain bullet, which is what a faster twist is meant for, Id buy larger caliber. Same with all the goofy fast twist .224 rage. 99% of them will be obsolete in the next 3 to 5 years. Just like the ultra mags, WSSM, and WSM's. One or two will stick around and the rest will go by the wayside. All marketing hype and rage imo. At least it gives us something to debate on.
@@tripplebeards3427 I've had better accuracy with the 1-7.5 with 100 gr 105gr 108gr and 112gr . The Barnes match burner 112gr at about 3000fps being the most accurate for long range. I built the rifle for long range. 18.5lbs is not something I would pack around for hunting that's forsure.
My daughter’s 243 shoots moa or better with every thing she’s tried in it which is at least a half dozen different hunting rounds in the 90-100gr, it’s a factory 1/10.
Insurance is a scam, live life at your own risk.
In most things I agree, but it is a risk assessment and we all assess risk for ourselves and will always come to different conclusions.
Ok! This where I get lost! We use to sight our gun and shoot shit white whatever ammo!!! So what’s the deal know?????
Raise your hand if you have a 30-06, keep it raised if you’ve ever burned out a barrel.. nobody,
Are you sure? Not a single one?