The shape of the tire has a lot to do with it. The crown being steeper makes it more flickable, especially when we are talking about front tires. My bike came stock with battleax s21r’s, and the front tire is super steep, so it’s more flickable, while the rear is a lot less steep, so it adds high speed stability. The s22r’s I’m going to replace them with when they’re gone completely have an even steeper front tire, even harder middle strip in the rear, for better longevity, but also a much softer second and third compound, for added traction. They also have improved tread patterns, for better wet traction. Things like tire pressure, temperature, and wear have a lot to do with flickability, as well. Motorcycle tires have come so damn far since I bought my 2006 cbr600rr thirteen years ago. The difference between it and my 2021 cbr1000rr I bought new in august is freakin insane. Same weight, twice the power, and it handles better. What they’re doing with bikes is nuts these days.
@@MrBulli69 absolutely. These new tires are crazy, man. Leagues above what they had a decade ago. I remember when dual compound tires were a big deal expensive af. Now most of them are dual compounds, and my s21r’s are three compound tires. They’ve got blended compound tires that transition from one compound to another gradually, and feel seamless. Gotta love technology.
If you ever get a chance, peep the Pirelli Diablo Rosso tire line. The II is my go to on all my bikes. Amazing grip and flickability. I dont do any highways pulls, but gotta ride highway like a hr or so one way to meets. But im usually slaying backroads, tiwsties, and they work great on the stunt bikes of mine too
I knew a guy that thought the aspect ratio was the actual height of the sidewall in mm. I tried to tell him he was wrong but he didn't listen. So he continued to drive around on 4 different tires because they had the same aspect ratio.
@@JusttheEdge 🤦♂️ half the guys that ride around here all say the same thing too 😅 if your into stanced cars or proper tire fitment you'll learn real fast that you'll rub with certain tires if the aspect ratio is off
💯 spot on. Have been using a 200 for awhile on my 1000 track bike. Chamged yo a 190 as that was all thT was available and the corner transitions and turning was discernibly quicker/easier
Gotta remember that different brands come up different in width when mounted, it’s not a precise science. Rim width will drastically affect aspect as well as radius of the tyre meaning that sometimes, a wider tyre won’t have a greater contact patch as a result of fitting it to a rim too narrow - research is needed on a bike by bike basis.
actually, during product training recently, I learned that the widths aren't universal, depending on the tyre and how it was made, the actual width van be lower, for example, a 180 rear tyre could actually be a 174! (I think that's how he explained it)
Holy crap! Someone who actually knows what they're on about! 100% correct information, mate🙂👍it's crazy how many vids are out there with incorrect information yet have millions of views! 🤦🤦
The key is not aqua-gliding. Tire tread is important. Often occurs in light or slightly wet weather or rain. The main thing is not to slip. No matter narrower or wider tires.
The difference in contact patch is realistically minuscule. Profile has more effect. But mass and more importantly thermal mass is the primary difference. The wider tire having more mass can absorb more heat before it overheats. The greater mass also aids in shedding more heat. Talk to a real pro rider and they will tell you that they pick the smallest tire that can handle the thermal load they put on the tire during a race.
Acctualy... the contact patch ist a little more than with a 190, but its soooo minimal that its not the reason for more grip. The grip is actually almost the same. The advantage of a wider tire is that you have more tire to spread the heat. It wont overheat as fast(for longer faster corners). The little less wide tire is, as you said, more agile, but might overheat at the end of long fast corners
Even when I ran my 2011 r6 I ran a 190 instead of a 180. It made leaning into turns smoother and had slightly more tire on the ground at the contact patch.
You’re literally changing the profile of the tire if you’re forcing a 190 on a 5.5 in rim. It doesn’t feel smoother I’ll tell you that, unless you actually do trackdays, I doubt you can tell the difference.
@@user-fe5bi7ul4t true your right. guess it felt smoother as in the transition from upright to leaning into a turn just felt slower,... like take the same turn on a thin wheel bicycle then one of those fat tire ones. that's the best example I could compare. maybe planted is the word. plus all I cared about was wheelies back then and it hooked better.
@@kevinbates3575 oh good. Yeah I think the original Sus on the TL1000 worked on a strange offset wheel type pulley and could react strangely during bouncing or something like that. It used to throw people off. Is that a 240Z in your display picture btw?
I honestly loved my TLS ! Have ridin many bikes i owned Psycho Cycles in Clearwater FL for quite a while. Its a 1977 280z but yeah she is mine. 29 years of ownership now
Someone told me years ago when I got my brand new 2008 cbr600 that anything less that a 200 was stupid, this video is great! At the time the gsxr1000 was killing the game and then Ducati committed mass homicide, so it was harder for other liter bikes to keep up let alone the 600s, but because I was so much more nimble around the corners I would be 12-18 seconds faster than my buddy on his Ducati at Sebring
Doubt it, 190 is best on 6in rim. The CBR600 has a 5.5in rim so you’re literally changing the tire profile. The 180 is literally more flickable your bike would handle worse with a 190. Just get a 180/60 instead of a 190/55, it’s not meant for your bike.
I love the 200's but wow is there a difference from the 190's. I got Pirelli Diablo supercorsa V3 with 190 on the back and it leans into corners like nothing...got a very tall aggressive profile. If the 200 wasn't as heavy in turns I'd love to rock em they look sweet but they good for the straight that's all imo.
Try increasing the tire pressure around 4-6psi if your still comfortable riding like so it should help immensely with said problem. What kind of riding are you doing? I'm assuming you don't ride to much? Not calling it a problem or down talking. Just from the little I have to go off of I'm trying to help most I can safely
Contact patch doesn't mean more grip..especially on a bike ..bigger contact patch means less weight distribution per square inch ...think of.a tank..very heavy but can run over your foot (probably not) without breaking it also..its a well fact 125 gp bikes have amazing grip ..and they ride on rubber bands in comparison..
Your stats are out dude. All radial tyres have a max sidewall to width ratio of 85%. A /55 ratio tyre therefore is 55% of the 85%. Also, the width of the wheel makes a huge difference. A 5.5” with a 200 causes it to be more profiled than a 190 but it will be nervous at speed on the straight. On a 6” it is correct and you’re right, it turns slower than a 190 so long as the 190 is on a 5.5”. Also, a 200 on a 5.5” brings some gearing benefits as when on full lean the effective gearing reduces and thus increases as you lift from the apex and goes with you delaying the need to change up. It’s very noticeable on a flip flop as you lean from one side to the other, you will hear the revs fall and rise again as it goes from side to side. Horses for courses. 200hp up, you need the 200 section but can play with dynamics
i just began looking into getting a bike after years of not being on a bike. if the tire is slimmer, it’s a tiny bit thicker on the inside right? it has to make up for something? idk
Get the one recommended by the manufacturer. 600s use a 180 and 1000s (with exceptions) use a 190. If you’re going to make the switch to a 200 you already know why and what it’ll do for you. It’s not for beginners to experiment with
Hate a bike that feels like it's falling when turning Iike to hang on it to hold it through the corner and the feeling that it picks it self up going out of the corner twisting the wrist
I think he is wrong, the 200 60 when leaned over has a larger contact patch than the 190, period. No denying this fact. 190 might feel flickable but the patch on the ground is smaller on the 190 vs 200. I have gone thru 400 sets of pirelli’s in the last 6 years, I think he is wrong on the contact patch, but tire pressure changes that as well….
So here is the question. Someone is making a kit for the atwin that converts it from 21 90/90 and 18 150/70 to 17" supermoto style. Not sure the exact size. Would it be more or less flickable? (Wheels are alloy instead of spoked)
And how do you know about leaning your bike. Your tires are a clear indication that you don’t. They are not even edged out. Still has factory smoothness on them. At least edge them up some
Not quite how you explained it The reason the heavier wheel is harder to flick is because the wheel is acting as a gyroscope and the heavier the gyroscope the more it wants to stay straight
@@eddieruddock7014 you know nothing then Look up what a gyroscope is It literally means it resists changing angle when spinning fast Heavier wheel equals harder to tilt/change the angle Unless your talking about the steering angle which doesn't get used The only time you steer a motorbike is just before you turn a corner when you actually turn the opposite direction to create the desired lean which is what you use to turn the corner not the steering In fact the gyroscopic effect is what make the bike stand up straight coming out of a corner using the throttle without changing your center of balance Either way you are very wrong and in a big way The key wording being the wheels act like a GYROSCOPE
@@madyottoyotto3055 @madyottoyotto3055 I said, "They resist inputs" (meaning steering inputs) I definitely could of described it better than I did) And you said "It resists changing angle when spinning" We mean the same thing man, we're just describing it differently 👍🏻 I know exactly what a gyroscope is and I know about steering out to turn in etc
In theory yes, in practice mofos out here with like 15 PSI thinking the wider the patch the better. Check your tire pressure and set it to manufacturer specification.
The shape of the tire has a lot to do with it. The crown being steeper makes it more flickable, especially when we are talking about front tires. My bike came stock with battleax s21r’s, and the front tire is super steep, so it’s more flickable, while the rear is a lot less steep, so it adds high speed stability. The s22r’s I’m going to replace them with when they’re gone completely have an even steeper front tire, even harder middle strip in the rear, for better longevity, but also a much softer second and third compound, for added traction. They also have improved tread patterns, for better wet traction. Things like tire pressure, temperature, and wear have a lot to do with flickability, as well. Motorcycle tires have come so damn far since I bought my 2006 cbr600rr thirteen years ago. The difference between it and my 2021 cbr1000rr I bought new in august is freakin insane. Same weight, twice the power, and it handles better. What they’re doing with bikes is nuts these days.
I'd also add how flexible the carcass is makes a big difference to contact patch
@@MrBulli69 absolutely. These new tires are crazy, man. Leagues above what they had a decade ago. I remember when dual compound tires were a big deal expensive af. Now most of them are dual compounds, and my s21r’s are three compound tires. They’ve got blended compound tires that transition from one compound to another gradually, and feel seamless. Gotta love technology.
@@thagingerninjer5391 wait I'm confused, he said that the 200 has a steeper crown but the 190 is more flickable?
Most street riders end up squaring off their tires from not enough leaning, so the shape changes.
If you ever get a chance, peep the Pirelli Diablo Rosso tire line. The II is my go to on all my bikes. Amazing grip and flickability. I dont do any highways pulls, but gotta ride highway like a hr or so one way to meets. But im usually slaying backroads, tiwsties, and they work great on the stunt bikes of mine too
I like my motorcycle like I like my women. With a big back tire !
Thick Rear Rubber😏
The women I date don't have back tires🤨
@@nucleardestruction11 then u aint dating woman
@@mintisgames5266 Damn you got me
@@nucleardestruction11 wait....😳
Hang in their bro
We got this!
I started watching this unable to comprehend and ended with a very simplistic yet comprehensive understanding. Thank you adobo!
Aprilla bikes are so damn beautiful. I love the sound of the v4
Finally someone made a video explaining it clearly. Been trying to tell people this forever!
I knew a guy that thought the aspect ratio was the actual height of the sidewall in mm. I tried to tell him he was wrong but he didn't listen. So he continued to drive around on 4 different tires because they had the same aspect ratio.
@@JusttheEdge 🤦♂️ half the guys that ride around here all say the same thing too 😅 if your into stanced cars or proper tire fitment you'll learn real fast that you'll rub with certain tires if the aspect ratio is off
💯 spot on. Have been using a 200 for awhile on my 1000 track bike. Chamged yo a 190 as that was all thT was available and the corner transitions and turning was discernibly quicker/easier
Gotta remember that different brands come up different in width when mounted, it’s not a precise science.
Rim width will drastically affect aspect as well as radius of the tyre meaning that sometimes, a wider tyre won’t have a greater contact patch as a result of fitting it to a rim too narrow - research is needed on a bike by bike basis.
Very good explanation of tire dimensions.
actually, during product training recently, I learned that the widths aren't universal, depending on the tyre and how it was made, the actual width van be lower, for example, a 180 rear tyre could actually be a 174! (I think that's how he explained it)
Holy crap! Someone who actually knows what they're on about! 100% correct information, mate🙂👍it's crazy how many vids are out there with incorrect information yet have millions of views! 🤦🤦
200 also requires more lean in corners, because of that sharper 190 profile you are talking about.
A very good explanation kabayan,thanks be to God for sharing,,
well explained and easy for understanding
You forgot to mention that about the width of the rim also. Narrow rims and wide tires will also change the contour of the tire.
Also rim width makes all the difference in these factors.
I like the tires on my Ducati 990, super fat, and super slick.
What a great video. Great to see you my friend!!
The key is not aqua-gliding. Tire tread is important. Often occurs in light or slightly wet weather or rain. The main thing is not to slip. No matter narrower or wider tires.
Nice and simple, for some it will start a life long interest. Excellent job
Taller tires also have more flywheel gyroscopic effect than lower profile tyres.
The difference in contact patch is realistically minuscule.
Profile has more effect.
But mass and more importantly thermal mass is the primary difference.
The wider tire having more mass can absorb more heat before it overheats. The greater mass also aids in shedding more heat. Talk to a real pro rider and they will tell you that they pick the smallest tire that can handle the thermal load they put on the tire during a race.
If you were my neighbor, I would definitely be getting a Ducati instead of a Harley.
Acctualy... the contact patch ist a little more than with a 190, but its soooo minimal that its not the reason for more grip. The grip is actually almost the same. The advantage of a wider tire is that you have more tire to spread the heat. It wont overheat as fast(for longer faster corners). The little less wide tire is, as you said, more agile, but might overheat at the end of long fast corners
Awesome info thanks pal 👍
"flickability" I love this 🤣
I no longer ride. But my '94 ZX7 and '92 CBR900RR both had 180's. I miss those years.
Even when I ran my 2011 r6 I ran a 190 instead of a 180. It made leaning into turns smoother and had slightly more tire on the ground at the contact patch.
You’re literally changing the profile of the tire if you’re forcing a 190 on a 5.5 in rim. It doesn’t feel smoother I’ll tell you that, unless you actually do trackdays, I doubt you can tell the difference.
The 190 will steal ponys from your bike. The 180 is for 5.5”rims, 190 is for 6” rims
@@user-fe5bi7ul4t true your right. guess it felt smoother as in the transition from upright to leaning into a turn just felt slower,... like take the same turn on a thin wheel bicycle then one of those fat tire ones. that's the best example I could compare. maybe planted is the word. plus all I cared about was wheelies back then and it hooked better.
Excellent video. More educational videos please. Love the content. Electric Rider. An Energica or Kymco one day.
And now you know more about motorcycle tires than you ever thought possible
I think they came after C2W, Motonosity, 6fthonda, yammie, dan, etc. like i said. People want new
I think the moto content creators like 44teeth and fort9 have a strategy made for longevity though. Time will tell.
The aspect ratio refers to the sidewall height from the bead, and not the crown of the tire
Bead means which part
@@mryfw edge part of the tire that locks the tire inside the rim
200 section also takes longer to warm up especially on the road
You should have a "little chat" with all the stretched Busa owners....
I loved the old Dunlop D207 cause it was less curved. My TL1000 loved the stability
The rear suspension on the TL1000 was baddd
@@eddieruddock7014 i had ohlins suspension, it was pretty decent
@@kevinbates3575 oh good. Yeah I think the original Sus on the TL1000 worked on a strange offset wheel type pulley and could react strangely during bouncing or something like that.
It used to throw people off.
Is that a 240Z in your display picture btw?
I honestly loved my TLS ! Have ridin many bikes i owned Psycho Cycles in Clearwater FL for quite a while. Its a 1977 280z but yeah she is mine. 29 years of ownership now
You need to be getting on a bit to get the 200 leaned over.
Clean bikes😍
Someone told me years ago when I got my brand new 2008 cbr600 that anything less that a 200 was stupid, this video is great! At the time the gsxr1000 was killing the game and then Ducati committed mass homicide, so it was harder for other liter bikes to keep up let alone the 600s, but because I was so much more nimble around the corners I would be 12-18 seconds faster than my buddy on his Ducati at Sebring
12-18 seconds is the rider difference, not the bike.
That has nothing to do with the tire. I bet you’d still be 12-18 seconds faster if you swapped bikes
12-18 seconds LMAO. That’s rider difference, neither of you are pushing your bikes limits to 100% so you cannot form a conclusion on what is faster.
Every time you see an American muscle car just look at the rear tires, the only thing that can make it interesting if they got beefy tires
Great vid thanks
on the street i’ll stick with the 180 Michelin Power Cup 2s…
Q3s
On my CBR 600 I was first running 180 but when I changed to the 190 I was on my best on corners
Doubt it, 190 is best on 6in rim. The CBR600 has a 5.5in rim so you’re literally changing the tire profile. The 180 is literally more flickable your bike would handle worse with a 190. Just get a 180/60 instead of a 190/55, it’s not meant for your bike.
Damn, I never knew there was so much I didn’t know about tires. 😂
All I know is...I can hardly touch the floor with a 200 on my V4... 🤷😂
Which one has better braking?
Nice
I love the 200's but wow is there a difference from the 190's. I got Pirelli Diablo supercorsa V3 with 190 on the back and it leans into corners like nothing...got a very tall aggressive profile. If the 200 wasn't as heavy in turns I'd love to rock em they look sweet but they good for the straight that's all imo.
Make a video please how to pull out stuck handlebar ends.. I tried everything but nope it won't move..
This is what I have been looking for bro... Since I changed my tires from 150 to 160 on my ninja 400 I felt like the flickerability has been reduced
So many things in this comment say so much about u
Try increasing the tire pressure around 4-6psi if your still comfortable riding like so it should help immensely with said problem. What kind of riding are you doing? I'm assuming you don't ride to much? Not calling it a problem or down talking. Just from the little I have to go off of I'm trying to help most I can safely
Bro Can you please show all of your bikes ❤️❤️
Contact patch doesn't mean more grip..especially on a bike ..bigger contact patch means less weight distribution per square inch ...think of.a tank..very heavy but can run over your foot (probably not) without breaking it
also..its a well fact 125 gp bikes have amazing grip ..and they ride on rubber bands in comparison..
Your stats are out dude. All radial tyres have a max sidewall to width ratio of 85%. A /55 ratio tyre therefore is 55% of the 85%. Also, the width of the wheel makes a huge difference. A 5.5” with a 200 causes it to be more profiled than a 190 but it will be nervous at speed on the straight. On a 6” it is correct and you’re right, it turns slower than a 190 so long as the 190 is on a 5.5”. Also, a 200 on a 5.5” brings some gearing benefits as when on full lean the effective gearing reduces and thus increases as you lift from the apex and goes with you delaying the need to change up. It’s very noticeable on a flip flop as you lean from one side to the other, you will hear the revs fall and rise again as it goes from side to side. Horses for courses. 200hp up, you need the 200 section but can play with dynamics
Good info👍🏼
Same principle in cars minus the flick ability
i just began looking into getting a bike after years of not being on a bike. if the tire is slimmer, it’s a tiny bit thicker on the inside right? it has to make up for something? idk
Big tire, low pressure, toss on some bicycle pegs and bam, stunt time
The shape makes so much difference my tripumph is so much more playful than my honda
My boy has that 1198😁
Love my Aprilia 🔥
Rim size will alter tire shape and width
There are websites available dude to calculate tyre profile change 😂
👌🏍️🔥
The perfect loop 🔁 😯
never realized that was a percentage
hey which side of the springs is my "unsprung weight" on? 😂😂😂
Old bikes go way harder than new bikes
Yeah but new tire tech goes way harder
I understand.
How would you choose between all these tires without trying them all out and spending money
Get the one recommended by the manufacturer. 600s use a 180 and 1000s (with exceptions) use a 190. If you’re going to make the switch to a 200 you already know why and what it’ll do for you. It’s not for beginners to experiment with
How do you flick you bike! 🏍
Hate a bike that feels like it's falling when turning Iike to hang on it to hold it through the corner and the feeling that it picks it self up going out of the corner twisting the wrist
Aprilia 😍
"not only more mass, but also more weight" bruh, that is one of the dumbest tautologies I've heard so far this year.
Would a 195 be considered a good middle ground for both flickability and horsepower ?
No get 200/65 it has a sharper profile and you still get the big contact patch.
No matter how many times tire size is explained to me I still don’t get it
I like my bike to handle, personally
Flickability, that's what she said lol
I think he is wrong, the 200 60 when leaned over has a larger contact patch than the 190, period. No denying this fact. 190 might feel flickable but the patch on the ground is smaller on the 190 vs 200. I have gone thru 400 sets of pirelli’s in the last 6 years, I think he is wrong on the contact patch, but tire pressure changes that as well….
Italian beauties ❤
All i knew till now is 36 psi back and 28 psi front . Thanks for the out of syllabus information
So here is the question. Someone is making a kit for the atwin that converts it from 21 90/90 and 18 150/70 to 17" supermoto style. Not sure the exact size. Would it be more or less flickable? (Wheels are alloy instead of spoked)
What’s the best tyre for yamahaMt 10 17 registration
Great use of YT shorts
Nice Duc ❤
Rim width the same?
MotoGP entered chat..
RSV4 lacks flickability?
Thabks for the Info china man.....china#1
Q3+ FTW
And how do you know about leaning your bike. Your tires are a clear indication that you don’t. They are not even edged out. Still has factory smoothness on them. At least edge them up some
Not quite how you explained it
The reason the heavier wheel is harder to flick is because the wheel is acting as a gyroscope and the heavier the gyroscope the more it wants to stay straight
The more it resists inputs*
They don't have a bias for going straight. They just resist turning more than a lighter wheel
@@eddieruddock7014 you know nothing then
Look up what a gyroscope is
It literally means it resists changing angle when spinning fast
Heavier wheel equals harder to tilt/change the angle
Unless your talking about the steering angle which doesn't get used
The only time you steer a motorbike is just before you turn a corner when you actually turn the opposite direction to create the desired lean which is what you use to turn the corner not the steering
In fact the gyroscopic effect is what make the bike stand up straight coming out of a corner using the throttle without changing your center of balance
Either way you are very wrong and in a big way
The key wording being the wheels act like a GYROSCOPE
@@madyottoyotto3055 @madyottoyotto3055
I said, "They resist inputs" (meaning steering inputs) I definitely could of described it better than I did)
And you said "It resists changing angle when spinning"
We mean the same thing man, we're just describing it differently 👍🏻
I know exactly what a gyroscope is and I know about steering out to turn in etc
Me with my 10 x 1.5 moped tire
Although im a slow biker, i put a s22 200 in my Busa 😎😁
Sonuç nasıl oldu?
Why don’t they just put the number; makin me do math
Bro you're talkin about shit that literally nobody will ever be able to feel.
Im too dumb to remember what you just said🥲
In theory yes, in practice mofos out here with like 15 PSI thinking the wider the patch the better.
Check your tire pressure and set it to manufacturer specification.
So not just round and black with a "Y" then?
I choose 180 its beter for speed and cornering at 650 cc
My bike 160er low-rider S Front 100
600cc vs 1000cc tire sizes
Good tech !
the tyre doesn't equate to the amount of horsepower the engine produces
Saying more mass and "unsprung weight", is redundant.
Mass is weight. Your whole wheel assembly is unsprung.