Can This 1968 4.2L Jaguar Block Be Saved?
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2022
- This is the numbers matching engine block out of a 1968 Jaguar E-Type Series 1.5. Unfortunately, it seems that the 4.2L Jag engines have an inherent design flaw...
Is it salvageable?
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I’m a 73 year old British Car technician (retired) as soon as I saw that block on the stand, I said hey isn’t that a Jag block.
Those overheating and cracking problems were very common with the 4.2 engine and spares were a plenty.
These cars and engines made it to the American market around the same time US car owners were use to “ idiot lights “ and failing to pay attention to their gauges.
It was REAL machine shops like yours that made me the hero every time.
Bob Anderson had a Corvair Monza that was completely set up for crankshaft grinding and cylinder sleeve replacement.
The process you used in the video, I’ve only had to do twice, once on a Jag and again on an older V8 Rolls block ( it was referred to as sweat fitting.
Your preparation was awesome, because in both cases with my experience, decking ( serious decking) was required and the Rolls engine required double head gaskets to correct an external seepage problem.
All of our machinist would say the same thing, that Jag continued to use the same block taking it from 3.4 to 4.2 liters. The 3.4 and 3.8 engines almost never had those problems.
I just wanted to say that it’s guys like you that made me look 👀 good for over 50 years!
Thanks for your wonderful content and precise work out there for all to see.
Most modern engines weren’t designed to be repaired.
Newer materials make um last longer but they’re usually scrap when they let go!😀thanks again! Great channel!
As someone who has an essential tremor seeing someone else dealing with it and just getting on with life is heartening
Mine isn’t too bad but give me a mic & telescoping gauges or a soldering iron and I’m screwed 😂
00l
@@JAMSIONLINE wanted to be an architect as a younger man. Try bringing pen to paper on a bad day. Gave up idea if being a surgeon very early in life
@@JAMSIONLINE yeah! Soldering is also my weakness 🤣 even though mine isn't as bad as yours
Try not to let your difficulties interfere too much with what you want to do. I knew someone with the tremor who worked all his life as a tailor, right up into his 80's. He found ways around the problems it caused.
Hi I worked on a 4.2 jaguar a few years back, we ended up using top hat sleeves or t-sleeve and it worked out great. We pressure tested the block afterwards and it had no leaks.
As he said. We’ve been recently rebuilding 4.2l that cracked like yours. We used top hat sleeves and it end up great.
@brandon kerley , and Krzysztol Pazdziora, Were they cast iron street blocks, or rare aluminum racing blocks? The one in this video is a rare aluminum racing block...A second look at the video reveals the magnetic 🧲 particle inspection being done on the block, with the liners removed... My mistake... It is a cast iron block... Thanks for the heads-up on this one ..
@@michaelmartinez1345 actually that is a cast iron block in the video, if it was an aluminum block they would of not been able to do the magniflux method
@@michaelmartinez1345 aluminium one, almost same case as aluminium rover v8 4.0 and 4.6 from discovery 2 and p38
But did you repair the cracks in the cast-iron block?
I've seen one jag block as bad as that was repaired by grinding out the cracks and brazing them up. It held up very well and is still running beautifully after 20 years.
I agree with this as it would give the most longevity out of the repair and since the parent cylinders need bores because of taper anyway the machining time to clean up the extra braze would be minimal
Don’t know how that would work. Different metals, different coefficients of expansion. Brazing is a melding technique, not a welding technique. Creates a solution of metals. One would think thermal fatigue will occur quickly. Your experience obviously differs, and I’m not saying that you are wrong.
@@BoogWar01 yep you have no idea what youre talking about. Brazing is the way.
@@fuckingpippaman it is a newbie response based on lack of information. Happens all the time.
We had the same type of Crack brazed on an old ferguson tractor engine with wet sleeves it still holds.
My shop specialized in reclaiming numbers matching blocks for rare and top dollar restorations, so these were common issues.
Our procedure was drilling a hole at the end of the crack (when possible) 'V-ing' out the cracks, and having them cast iron welded at an agricultural/commercial cast iron welding company nearby.
It's very common for agricultural/commercial castings to be repair welded as they (as in auto restoration) are often impossible to replace or often VERY expensive, however It must be a shop that specializes in iron welding.
Afterwards cleanup bores were run, then the cylinders sleeved - using a slight step at the bottom of the parent bore, or a flanged sleeve as noted in the vid. Press fit was held to the LOW side and a retaining compound - Made To Transfer Heat! (we moved away from Green Loctite) - used on installation. The retaining compound is the secondary retainer of the sleeve as the step it rests on in the 'parent' bore and the head gasket/head 'trap' the sleeve from moving.
A large contributing factor to these top of the bore cracks is the heat expansion driving the sides of the block Outward - so without stopping the cracking it will continue to travel/grow, eventually causing more problems later.
With the above repairs we never had an issue, even with some cars driven in cross country events for many years.
Best of luck!!
To make telescopic gauges easier to use with your tremor, use a micrometer holder so you only have to stabilize one thing. As a quadriplegic I have had to figure out work arounds for so many things over the years. If you still require more help try holding the telescopic gauge with a flex mount for dial indicators then you should be able to get everything aligned to measure accurately.
That’s a nice deck bro
When I was in the engine rebuilding trade back in the late 1960's to mid 1970's it was standard procedure to install flanged sleeves in ALL jaguar motors that we did.
The problem was so common that even if the motor was able to be bored 20 thou oversize and it did not already have flanged sleeves, we would fit bore it out and fit the flanged units.
Another thing we would do is order flanged sleeves that were 10 thou oversized on the OD so that we could bore the block to take care of the taper and ovality that ALL the blocks had out of the factory.
Another highly secret "thing" we had was to wash sleeves and block with solvent and give them a good wipe down with urine (piss) and then press them in.
This would cause very slight rust which would lock them in place forever - remember that there was NO LOCTITE or similar available back then.
And it worked - not a single comeback ever.
And even if there was such products available in the US or Europe, due to the sanctions against South Africa back then, we would not have been able to import any such product.
Only problem was when you got a previously sleeved motor back to be resleeve (mostly racing motors) you had the devils own hard time to get the old sleeves out because the rust, heat and whatever chemicals were in the urine really chemically bonded everything together.
Not nice to think about but MAN DID IT WORK WELL.
And it was all we had back then.
I was impressed to see that you checked the flatness of the deck and that the cylinders were perpendicular without reference to the bottom of the block. So many times we see people making the assumption that the deck and base of the block are parallel.
As long as the mains and bores are machined relative to the deck there's absolutely no reason why the base has to be perfectly parallel, usually it's just going to have the sump bolted on, particularly on older engines.
@Chris Hartley, if the pan rails on the lower side of the block are not parallel with the deck surface for the head, then how is the block fastened to the OEM milling machine bench for the initial deck surfacing, cylinder boring and fastener drilling and tapping? My guess is the oil pan rails were machined first, at the OEM, to provide a reliable set of sturdy surfaces to locate the block onto the milling bench, for several of the of the machining process's and operations to take place... And my guess is the machinists are aware of this... Just guessing though...
@@michaelmartinez1345 I'm not sure about engine boring machines. I'm only familiar with Bridgeport style mills. However, if the machine spindle isn't perfectly square with the table of the machine, the deck could be milled flat and the bores put in perpendicular to the deck. But the deck wouldn't be parallel to the pan rails, and the bores wouldn't be perpendicular to the pan rails. The spindle should be checked for squareness to the table by sweeping the table with a dial indicator.
@@michaelmartinez1345 Not all engines have a base "parallel" to the deck, V6 and V8 for instance, so that method could not possibly be used, the block must be clamped by some other method. On "parallel" base engines the same method is used simply because the engine is on an assembly line, they don't have time to waste setting things up perfectly parallel.
The block is held in clamps and rotated as various machining operations take place, so although the surfaces should in theory be parallel there is no guarantee that they will be, particularly on older engines. On the more recent engines the mills and drills rotate around the block so the angles of surfaces are much more accurate relative to each other but they are still not machined with reference to another surface on the block, too time consuming.
@@jeeprenegade1985and Chris Hartley, I remember seeing large machines that held engine blocks on decks that rotate, but those deck surfaces were perpendicular to the machining heads... This way the blocks could be rotated to match the cutting tools... And yes, for high production purposes, v type blocks had numerous machine tooling equipment placed in positions to match the needs to work that block... But the pan rails were still used as a baseline to measure and position the pre-cut block with... Lots of engineering is involved with manufacturing and mass production of equipment like this... Definitely more than one way to do the job...
First I spent 30+ years in an engine manufacturing facility. Repairing and rebuilding machines and doing Tool Work. The way manufacturing lines are set up especially for engine blocks requires the first two surfaces to be machined are the deck and pan rail with the main bearing half rounds. These are located relative to casting features. The second operation would be to drill, ream and chamfer two locating holes in the pan rail. These are located relative to the main bearing half rounds and a casting feature. This feature is usually relative to the two center cylinders inside the coolant passages. All other features during the machining process are dimensioned from the pan rail and the two locating or main manufacturing holes. These holes are typically anywhere from .625/16mm to. 750/19mm in diameter.
Had a MGB block with same problem. Ground down crack area, brazed then installed “top hat” sleeves. Worked fine. Probably came from factory like that. Same block had crank bore misaligned by .008”! Bored that too. Post war England had a lot of issues with engine building and wiring with export cars.
If you have access to a large(er) oven or kiln, and a highly skilled and experienced welder, you could prep the cracks, heat/weld cycles until you get them all repaired then spot face the deck and go to work on the cylinders. Way labor and time intensive, or as others have mentioned, have it done professionally by an external specialist since it is a high value numbers matching block. Thanks for your time on this one, greatly appreciated!
this right here sounds like the "Correct" method of repair.
I was just wondering why welding wasn’t an option. I understand why its not for the avg home gamer. But the pros, with a rock and hard place situation like this have im sure come up with some. Probably not mig, but im fairly certain of some tig rod for casted metal. and ya ya i know heat affected brittle zone next to weld. But with proper heat up and cool down like he’s mentioned here with an oven, it dose a great job of negating those problems. 🤷🏻♂️.
I understand the speciality of it. So im curious if some have specialized in it.
I was wondering the same thing. Why wasn't welding a option. I personally suck at welding but I've seen guys on CZcams do some amazing things.
Dollar to return yield, you can throw all $ at it, in the end will work be worth yield. Only customer can quantify $s.
You don't need an oven or kiln, just a big tub of sand and two guys with weed burners. I saw a very large casting fixed that way.
Back in the old days we used to use a company in LA called Cyclone ExcelWeld...I got to watch as they were putting a Pierce Arrow block back together. They repaired a pair of Max Wedge heads for me. I doubt they are still around. They were old guys 30 years ago.
As an apprentice I worked on these engine blocks in the petrol version of CVR(T) & CVR(W) armoured vehicles. Putting Top Hat liners in was such a common job we had a machinist permanently employed doing them until the engines were replaced with a diesel engine in the early 2000s. These blocks were then seen several times at the workshops not for that repair but for their host vehicles the blocks kept on going. Hope this helps :-)
In the words of Hank Hill, you've got my attention and eager for more!
Metal stitch the cracks and top hat sleeve.
Buy the sleeves from Westwood cylinder liners in the UK.
Most important those cooling channels are clean and free
Looking forward to how this works out. I do believe that you will come up with a method to save this block, it'll be hard on the customer's wallet, but worth it on a restoration like this.
Reminds me of great times with my friend's '69 E-Type with a 4.2... always a head turner and fun. As I recall it was the first car you could license for the road that would do 150 mph... at least that was the story! Changing flat ties with the knock offs was an adventure too... Being familiar with that came in handy when I was riding with a co-worker who had a borrowed E-Type. We got a flat... he had no idea what to do but I knew enough to get the job done. Miss those old days and the then not-so-old cars!
As a retired engine rebuilder I can say the method you have used is by far the best .over the years I have done many engines using flanged cylinder sleeves and never had a problem
2:55 if the tremor is causing issues I suggest laying the telescoping gauge on a flat surface and then measure with the micrometer or calipers. After 20 years of turning wrenches as Airframes mechanic in the Navy my hands are shot and I have trouble with my grip and being steady.
Back in the day, Im 73, My dad had my 440 Chrysler block with these cracks ground V shaped to a set depth by the Machine shop and HeliArc welded. Also for the side before last surfacing of cylinders for new sleeves. Worked great and fixed the issue.
I've used the "top hat" style sleeves in a few "one of none" type builds, and depending on the usage and condition of the block casting, I have actually O ringed quite a few of them to prevent issues. Requires being able to get a copper head gasket, but I've found the combination to be as good as, if not better than factory.
Just my .02
Lani at Copper Gaskets probably has all the specs needed to cut them,
it's pretty surprising just how much stuff he has for all sorts of obscure engines, plus, he offers various thicknesses from about 1/32" to 5/32" (forget exactly as I haven't bought any for a while)
@@1crazypj he did a very custom m110 Mercedes gasket for me several years back. Top quality.
I did that almost identical repair many many times many years ago and found it very successful, almost identical equipment as well but didn't have the digital read out panel back then or the tool head caddy, that,s a awesome addition to that machine . it was all manual lifting tool post swap for me back in the 1980s, now retired but love to follow you young follows. Cheers
Something to consider also. CAT block sealer. We used to use it on cracked blocks and bad head gaskets on Cat and Cummins diesels. Lasted a long time. But you MUST follow the directions. If not you won't have coolant passages. You ad it to the coolant and run the engine and leave it in for a specified time and drain the system. This trick might save the engine if your repair doesn't do the trick or to make it last longer. It will definitely seal those cracks.
Dude, I can't get enough this stuff. So freaking cool. It tickles the part of my brain that makes me happy.
This is one of the reasons I enjoy watching.. thanks for the in detail presentation.
I was a CNC consultant at Mack Truck Reman in Pennsylvania for a while. All they did was Mack and Volvo blocks. Looking at this block, they would have scrapped it out a long time ago, but I'm really interested to see what extreme reconstructive surgery you guys come up with for this glorious project. So far, I think you guys might be onto something. Either way, rather you succeed or fail, it's a valuable learning experience and I'm really looking forward to more content.
- new sub
This is some of the last genuine quality content on this platform. Much respect
I have done work with my hands my whole life (im only 21) but my handwriting and fine motor skills have never been that good. To see that you have an essential tremor and are doing all of this work is amazing and motivating
Our 77 MGB had cracks in its head, (can't remember exactly where) but the place that did it, pre heated the head, welded it in a series of cycles and then left it in the oven and very slowly dropped the temperature, it took a long time but it worked.
On blocks like this that are cracked we have done a counter bores that are overlapping, basically the second is cut into the first a little bit and so on with each following one. Loctite is a lifesaver in these cases.
I never commented on the desire for you guys to use a dial indicator, I just assumed you did, but in the end I'm glad you showed it. Puts satisfying CZcams vids to shame.
love the @Abom79 shoutout and love the older engine content
Years ago we used to "stitch" cracks like that with special screwed, taper plugs coated with a product called "Iron Tight) (here in West Oz), and then bored sleeved or whatever to finish. It was very very effective and reliable. However, I do like the way you ended up with your solution.
Yeah I was going to reply with the same thing mate but you beat me to it. I have done this before successfully and if done here in combination with the top hat sleeves it would deal with those cracks growing
I am sure some CZcams expert will chime in and tell you exactly what you need to do. They just got finished making this same repair last night.
Kind of surprising to hear that Jag engines had this issue with all the great engines ( think Merlin ) that England made.
Counter bore, install flanged sleeves, drill crack ends to prevent propogation
Old Jaguar guy
Thx for videos, great refresher.
They can't crack any further now. They are down to the cooling passages
As a mechanical engineer ... nice 3D model explanation .. I approve of your skill ... simple and concise
Thanks for the dial indicator level check. Great video and quality work. Those water passages in the cylinder liner are a terrible design flaw.
@WRXHEAD, Yes, I was thinking the same thing.. Literally an 'open' invitation for very bad corrosion to develop between the block and the sleeve...Luckily, on this engine, the corrosion btwn. The block and that sleeve that the machinist removed appeared to be minimal, probably because the correct anti-freeze concentration was maintained in this engine, and halted the corrosion... But as soon as the concentration of A/F gets below 25%, the corrosion becomes very bad, especially between dis-similar metals like aluminum and steel, or cast iron.... I imagine that after that type of corrosion takes place, coolant starts leaking into the crankcase, and then destroys the bearings of that engine... I don't know WHY Jaguar 🐆 did that, but I certainly don't like those slots, and would consider having them slightly beveled, welded shut, then machined flush with the adjacent surface... Do any other companies do this without using 'O' rings on the outsides of the liners, like the Diesels do?
They worked just fine in the 3.8 engine. When the factory took them to 4.2, they did it with an overbore and those blocks have the cracking issues..
@@TyphoonVstrom So the extra boring of the increased displacement of the cylinders meant the sleeves were too thin at the top of the cylinders, and then caused the sleeves to crack? I now understand an additional reason for the increased size of the step at the top of the cylinder block... To stop the cracking of the sleeve in that high pressure / highly stressed area... I did not notice a crack on the Aluminum casting... A mark of the Dye penetrant bleeding through the cracked liner, yes that is apparent... But I did not notice a specific crack of the Aluminum casting... Is this where the castings are also known to crack?
The Volkswagen Golf engine started out as a 1.5 with water between all cylinders, but the later 1.8 and 2.0 versions had solid metal between the two center cylinders
@@erik_dk842 , that is a good observation... I noticed that several engine manufacturers have done that , especially with their dry sleeve engines... The castings were 'siamesed' joined between the cylinders... I heard that some companies have done away with cast-iron sleeves in aluminum castings, by using the 'nikasil' plating process.. Some of these companies had reasonable success with this technique, while other manufacturers had problems with it... Jaguar 🐆 was one of the companies that had lots of problems with that process... Personally, I don't like major castings like engine blocks to be made in such a way that they can not be restored by machining cylinders to an oversize... And that is precisely the situation with the 'nikasil' process, no machining of any surface treated in this way can be done to restore the surface without replacing an ALUMINUM liner with std. sized pistons, which is also questionable if that can be done reliably.. A single life use of the treated pistons & rings and/or the cylinder liners is all that is practical with that process... My guess, is it could negatively affect the resale value of a vehicle, especially one that was originally sold as a high-end vehicle, like a Mercedes , BMW or even a Porsche... It appears that the use of low sulphur fuels, that is the ONLY type of fuels being sold in certain areas, negatively affects the cylinders and pistons that have been treated with the 'nikasil' process, that could cause the 'nikasil' coating to delaminate from the parent material, causing extensive internal engine damage... No thank you, I'm avoiding that situation like a potentially insane in-law ..
on older SBC i have cast iron pinned between the cylinders and sleeved the two cylinders . Then pressurized the block with ceramic sealer, had great luck
We did a number of these repairs. We drilled and pinned the crack. Then placed the block in an oven and heated it to 800 degrees and nickel; welded the pins and placed it back in the oven and cooled the block down over a 24 hr period. Then-cut the cyl at the top accepted the new sleeve and surfaced the deck. As for the cyl tapper, we stone-honed the bottom of the cyl to allow for the proper press fit by eliminating the tapper. We used liquid nitrogen to freeze the sleeve and dropped them in the cyl bore. We never had a comeback.
Did an in-frame on a wet sleeve diesel with similar damage plus lots of pitting on the deck, we just added a thin layer of RTV silicone before installing the head gasket. (Not on the fire rings of course, more like just to fill in the small cavities.) P.S. This was done on a tight budget and to get it back to work sooner, a replacement block has been sourced in the meanwhile if it doesn’t hold up well, although this used to be standard practice on the given engine some time ago. P.P.S. The replacement sleeve plans look excellent, sounds like it’d be a great way to save it, but I’d ask a welder who has experience with cast iron too, in my area there’s a specialist who could repair it.
This is going to be interesting, just how far the customer wants to go, to re-build this. Of the options, I believe the flanged liners would be the most cost effective. However, I would want to have the flanges 'overlap', where they would require machining to mate. With consideration to thermal expansion, I'm curious as to what amount of 'fit' would be necessary, as related to 'flange to flange' clearance.
P
Numbers matching block - difference could be thousands of dollars!
NOT doing it will cost more than saving a numbers matching 68 Jag
saw a little on the 60second utube shorts n really interested in knowing more, time to sit back n enjoy. Thanks for showing us this stuff, there are obviously lots of folks like me who get enjoyment from seeing real problems solved by skilled people.
Metal stitching first thought i had when i saw the crack. Seems to be a lost art in the repair shops but there are a few dedicated metal stitching companies for industrial equipment. Not a lot of information on it but a CZcams search brings up a couple videos. If i remember right one was a repair between valve seats.
It is fun to watch the process as it actually happens. I am still amazed that you can get your machines accurate to the degree that you do. I will never even be close to doing something like this...so its a privilege to tag along as you solve the issues
Put it back together as is. Numbers matching is essential and 10,000 miles of driving is little threat to failure.
Just put the goddamn numbers on a good block
@@erik_dk842 aren't they part of the casting and not on a plate so it can't be removed and done that way to deter engine theft and prove tampering
@@erik_dk842 considering these are rare and any good block would cost more than a salvage car or a car with small issues.. tampering with engine block serial numbers is a felony especially if youre gonna use it on the road..
A fascinating video of an operation I have read about, but never seen. Jaguar produced, (machined) these blocks on machinery that was pre-WW2 ! Workshop techniques were never the best because the machinists and engine assemblers were on piece-work. As far as I know, once top-hat liners are installed, the block is good for many more miles without incident. This assumes everything else on the engine is attended to.
Don't forget to attach the timing cover to the block before facing off the deck !! If you don't you'll probably end up with a lip between block and cover and the head gasket seal will be compromised.
I have to say I am surprised to see a block with the cross passages on a 1968 car, as to the best of my knowledge, the long-stud engines only came in in the 70s with the 7L blocks. The 8L blocks were supposed to be stronger, but still cracked and the issue was only dealt with in the early 80s with the slotted block that is just a spatchcock and unworthy of a company claiming to be good engineers !
Edit
Looking at the video in more detail (stopping to look at things), it is a short stud engine as I can see the tapped holes, so Jaguar must have machined the coolant cross-passages when the 4.2 engine came out. So the cracking problem went on for decades before Jaguar got around to fixing it. By the time they fixed it, the new all-alloy engine was on the starting blocks so one can understand why they didn't spend a lot of time and money on the old engine design
Cool slowmo on the chips. My old boss always wondered why I always would jump on boring bushings for this mining company that was always in need of these brass bushings (I have no idea what sort of machine they are on) especially when they were sort of a pain in the butt to set up.
The reason why I loved doing those parts was because the insert I used at the feed and speed I always used would always throw chips that always looked like a golden fountain. Each took about 40 minutes to bore. I never ever thought of how cool it would look in slow mo!
I would make the top hat ring even larger in diameter. This means machining the flats for each sleeve but that will be needed regardless...
Wow! Phenomenal! This brings back memories of my '77 MBG I had in High school. Rebuilt the engine and the entire car. Your expertise is wonderful to watch. What a tremendous skill set to have in this day and age! Subscribed! And... besides the machining... Great video production! Keep up the fantastic work! 👍
Bravo to the CZcams algorithm serving this up. Seeing your incandescent competence doing something so deeply tangible somehow invokes a very satisfying feeling that everything is right with the world
I remember helping my dad repair the block to a tractor engine with my brother. We wound up beveling the crack and welding it with a powder spray torch welder.
My uncle then cleaned it up on his machine and we installed sleeves. It has been running like brand new in 1952 for the last 10 years.
I would recommend similar if you could find someone with experience, bore it for tophat sleeves then bevel the crack and spray weld, then clean up with machine.
But it is high risk high reward. If the weld doesn't take you have essentially gapped that crack and caused all sorts of problems.
Very interesting video, This definitely shows how fare you guys are willing to go for your customers. And it makes great content for the channel for sure. These blocks aren't very easy to find, Let alone the matching numbers restoration issue. Unlike GM LS blocks that if you swing a dead cat in any direction you hit 3 of them. Finding a 1968 Jaguar block has to be pretty rare.
They all do that. The factory took to putting a plunge cut between each bore on the deck with a saw, to relieve this area and allow the bores to move independently.
Edit: after watching to the end, I wouldn't worry about the sealing area. Even with the saw cuts I mentioned above, the stock gaskets seal quite well. These are VERY stable blocks (no thin wall casting here!), with head studs and a beefy head casting, so plenty of clamping force available.
What @sideslip said.
I came here to say exactly this (based on many years of professional experience building XK engines)
The way you pop thoses paper thin sleeves out sooo satisfying ❤
I'm a machinist by trade but I have never used an engine boring machine but I have to say I love it. The specialized equipment is amazingly accurate for the job at hand. Decades ago I worked at a job shop and the owner took on some work from an outboard boat motor repair shop. I had to sleeve aluminum motor blocks on a bridgeport and let me say it was a joke in comparison to what you guys do.
Very cool program segment!!! Yes, these vintage cars from the Sixties would be worth a LOT more with their original engines.. Especially a matching #'s unit like this one is for this British car.. It is interesting how the centers of the bores vary slightly between the other adjacent bores on these engines. Is this normal , on these British engines? Just curious..
Wouldn’t the shop “Lock n Stitch “ in Turlock, Ca be able to repair that block? They perform all kinds of miracles.
That's exactly what I was thinking. We have fixed ford diesel tractor engines the very same way. They dont have liners. Yall guys do great work. I enjoy watching!
Nice seeing someone with decent machinery and the knowledge to repair this.
I've had to do this with a chisel and a coal fire before welding. Crude as hell, but it worked.
Very interested in seeing what you do to repair the block.
grind>weld>bore/surface?
Sleeve?
Fancy Coffee Table?
That was my thought too, grind out the crack, weld it up, heat treat, and then machine it.
What will stop it from cracking again?
I feel bad for the owner and his #'s matching British Turd.
What a boat anchor. Good luck with that thing.
Good or Bad block, it all makes for great video content.
i have not dealt specifically with these Jag motors, but I did work for an engine builder for a few years and dealt with cracks along the way. We used to use a guy who specialized in metal stitch repairs of cracked cylinder heads as well as engine blocks.
Have you thought of vacuum brazing that area. I have learned that if the joint is thin enough the brazing material approaches the strength of the parent material. You might want to look into that.
Love your work! Keep the videos coming! ABOM is an excellent machinist!
He sold himself to suppliers and is now their stooge.
There are so many new treatments for essential tremors sir. I wish you the best of luck. Cool that you do not let that hinder you to say f-off to nature and make suuuper exact items still. Hats off to you sir.
Essential tremors ain't no joke, but are mostly manageable. A neighbor has it, moderately advanced, & watching him light a cigarette without setting his cowboy mustache on fire, or chase a Pepsi bottle around to get a drink can be entertaining at times.
I think you are well capable of sorting this block out. Personally I would go with top hat liners that DO overlap and put them in numbers 1,3 and 5 cylinders then boring 2,4 and 6 to get the intersection of the top hats. Then using Loctite completely around the top hat it should in theory seal them perfectly and water should not get up to the deck.
Yep and even if water does get up to the deck, that's what the head gasket is for. Top hat sleeves done right works perfectly on these.
From summer 2020, new 3.8 liter blocks were available from Jaguar for 14,340 pounds each (about $16,000 then).
They will even stamp the original number in them to keep the car "numbers" matching.
@@michaelau5159
Doesn't help if you want a 4.2?
Unless you resleeve it?
@@JohnSmith-yv6eq bore spacing between 3.8 and 4.2 is different. 3.8 is slightly offset while 4.2 is evenly centred. I think the best thing for the engine in the video would be new Darton flanged sleeves. They even have coolant ridges to help with keeping the cylinders cool more evenly.
I have essential tremors too and they suck and are embarrassing. I’m glad you’re not letting it stop you from doing your passion though.
I see I was fortunate with my e-type 4.2 made june 1970 . had machine shop magnaflux and bore for oversized pistons . 107,000 Canadian miles before rebuild but no cracks between cylinders . thankfully . Great work your doing
Greetings from the U.K. !! I love the channel, you and your dad do top quality work. For the jaguar block, my main concern is that the block is efectively, split right down the middle. My concern there, is that the block will 'open up ' under extreme load, and odd things might happen to the press fit on the liner. In reality, for most uses, I don't think it would ever really be a problem, but its a risk. A top hat liner will definitely be better, as you rightly point out. If money and time were not a concern, I think the ultimate solution would be to machine down between the bores around the depth of the top of a top hat liner, stich lock or weld repair between the bores, then install a top hat liner. But thats going to be a big bill!
it depends how often it will be driven
No idea what it costs, but Jay Leno has had some things "metal stitched". He had a rod through the side of a one of a kind steam fire engine and they were able to stitch the block back together.
I have done repairs like this and the lock and stitch repair is the best way to fix cracks like these in an iron block . They won't be able to do anything about the cracks between the coolant passages but that's alright. I have never heard of anything bad coming of coolant leaking into coolant.
I’m happy you shouted out @abom79, I’ve been watching him since I was a kid
JB Weld it. Lol. I have no idea what I'm talking about but I hope this build continues and I can learn more.
love the care in setting up and checking everything. fantastic video and very satisfying to watch.
My thoughts on restoring the block is to clean the cylinders really good weld the cracks and bore cylinders back to spec as well as welding across the top where cracks are and resurfacing also may need to grind a groove into cracks before welding with small grinding tool like a dremel tool or similar tool it's alot of work but is the only way I can think of to make the block not leak through the cracks as they wouldn't be there anymore
Laserwelding was coming to my mind, when I saw the video.
That block is savable with cast iron threaded plugs aka lock and stitch seen it done successfully many times!
I wondered about good old Lock and Stitch!
I had a 4.2 block with the same problem and also frost damage around a core plug, but the customer wanted to keep the original block. The coreplug crack was stitched and liners fitted and then sent for ceramic sealing. The block was then cleaned and pressure tested and found to be leak free. It has lasted several years without a problem. Sealing makes a mess but is very effective in sealing leaks.
I love when MACHINISTS gonna fix something old My father was Machinist and was very good at it cool to watch you work
Your idea for flanged sleeves is a good one. But I’m wondering if it would help to braze the cracks?
I remember seeing an article where they did that along with flanged sleeves to save a numbers matching 63 Corvette.
Would using a high nickel welding rod be better. It reduces the heat input to the block immencely. I performed a crack repair many years ago on an old 272 Ford Mercury engine which cracked between two bores. I drilled and tapped a small hole on the crack. The hole had a small lead in chamfer. I used a silver frost paint to coat the screw. This was then cut off and penned in place. Another hole was drilled and tapped which overlapped the first hole. The surface was ground flat after that. I was only a teenager at the time and we had very little access to tooling. Anyway the repair worked well. The engine was in my speed boat so as you would appreciate that motor got a hiding.
@@johnspathonis1078 ah metal stitching Did you use a regular bolt or a specific bolt designed for that purpose.
@@TheMadHatter626 we have used brass 1/8” pipe plugs in 6 cylinder Diesel engines. But that’s on the side of the crankcase and not the deck surface.
@@TheMadHatter626 Hi Wolfman. It was just mild steel 1/4" UNC screws. I was an engineering student in 3rd year of my course so I had next to no excess money. We scrounged as much second hand and free stuff where possible. The block performed a bit like mild steel so I suspect is may have been an early type of SG cast iron. The crack occurred from a blown headgasket between two cylinders. We were on a water skiing expedition a long way from home so it ran for a day or so with bad blowby. The head was a rightoff. I must admit it was entirely a self induced problem.
I like to ideal of using a good machine to drill hole to the bottom of the water jacket and then using a bolt of the right grade with some green loctite I called sleeves compound which I usually use to put the sleeves in re bore the home and maybe put a step sleeve in. And finish off by Decking the block.
The XK Jaguar engine started out life as a 2.4, they tried building 3.0 ( for racing regs ) but it was not successful, later the engine grew to 3.4 & 3.8 both were very very good engines ( gold top triple carb 3.8 were good for not less than 265hp 180++ mph on Mulsanne straight in 1955 at Le Mans they won 55-56-57! partly due to Jaguar being the first and only cars to use disc brakes ALL others did not trust them and stayed with their drum brakes ) the 4.2 engine was a longer stroke larger bore version and does not like to rev too high, i imagine there is a limit how much they can be bored out, otherwise it is resleeve the engine, big job big expense i would guess!!
I would think the sleeves you took would from the factory, i would STRONGLY suggest making contact with Jaguar engine specialists in the UK re those cracks, i imagine they are partly due to the engines being a bored smaller engine to start out life!
Not to forget the Le Mans wins in 51 and 53 with the 3.4 C Type. It was the 53 C Type that won due to the disc brakes.
The XK 120 was a throw together. The MK7 was not ready for the show so they made the XK 120 from MK7 parts. It stole the show. I have worked on many here in Denver.
@@lookronjon I could wrong but the Mk5 & Mk7s were BIG HEAVY cars the XK120 were by comparison light sporty aerodynamic MK5 &7 were a bit of a tank, my grand mother years ago had a BRG XK150 chrome wire wheels green leather 3.4, my grand dad had a MK4 saloon red, chrome wire wheels leather BEAUTIFUL CARS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL, these days NOTHING even gets close not even late model Jags NO Thank you!!!!
The top hat sleeve if installed correctly will be a good solution to restore the engine to good running order .most of these cars are garage queen's and won't see hard use .it's a sure sign of summer when you see a e type on the road !
Now that's what I call agood use of the shorts, no bs intro as we already watched the whole video!
I would put the oversize sleves, but with even more oversize and flattened of edges in between the zylinders. That way, i can make sure, that there is good material on the sealing surface.
For the damage in the zylinders, I personally would slightly bore out the zylinders to a bigger diameter, to clean up the nasty surface before fitting new sleves.
As for fixing the cracks,... Welding can be very difficult, but an other option would be hard solder and a finish pass, to clean the surface. But I have no expertise in this area, so take this idea with a grain of salt. (theoreticaly it should work, practically... you know)
Is there any way to do option #2 but also add fire rings like in a boosted operation? It would help to keep coolant out of the combustion area.
O rings or loctite
I agree on the counter bore sleeve.
I also wonder if could Install some type of support into the water jacket in between where the cracks formed ?
It's all about heat transfer making the cracks.
I think the water jackets were a quick fix without any proof of longevity.
Also I wouldn't be afraid to use a cycle of water glass after engine is assembled an ran to secure the bores etc for ever. We have to do that on out aluminum race engines with copper head gaskets to make the. Stop leaking until they warm up if we don't use it.
Good information an work 👏
I've never worked on an engine in my life so I have no advice on how to fix. However, I repair everything that can be repaired and sometimes this isn't cost effective but I have fun and gain knowledge by doing so. I can't wait to see your fix.
Check out the Barum Engines YT channel. They've got a couple 4.2l Jags they're doing, and could give you a few pointers on how to seal this up. Seems like they have at least one 4.2l a month come through their shop. They're in the U.K., and definitely have a bit of experience machining and rebuilding these engines.
I agree, Lee from barum engines will set you straight
Have you considered welding the cracks? There's a lot of new products that are excellent in dealing with high carbon metals like cast iron.
Yess!!! That's the only way. If he isn't experienced with oxycetylene torch he should pass this part of the repair to someone else.
I love how you are able to do precision work with these machines way beyond capability of hand tools. The patience is impressive. I found this machine very interesting - if you consider this machine your boring machine, I can only imagine the exciting ones😉
Please take time to appreciate the though and effort put into this guys videos. Clearly written and recited script to go along with good footage. Great job man.
Incredible video. I found the work fascinating. Looking forward to the updates!
What I had done is a lock stitch in the very center of the area between cylinders. Then had tophat sleeves put in and the block decked a couple thou. This sealed all directions and worked very well.
MY hat is off to you! The time that you have taken to ensure it done correctly. Wish l paid much more attention in my machine shop. Thanks got to Crack the books. 💯💯💯💯💯💯👍👍👍👍
You had me as a new subscriber before you dropped the nut, but that just confirmed this is a channel for me!! I loved watching the Allis Chalmers build. Reminded me of working in an engineering shop long ago, in my teems. Sadly I've not spent any of my career in engineering, but I should have...... Love the channel.
We redid one of these a few years back same condition, Cracks identical. We contacted jaguar and they said use a top hat sleeve and tour good. Needless to say. Car still runs perfectly fine.
Super informative to verbalize your thoughts, step-by-step approach, and analysis! My analysis is, your customer hired the right shop!!!
I’ve always had the highest respects for automotive machinist y’all do some really cool stuff, working in aerospace part of the industry we get tight tolerances but I would worry to much about working on a customers matching numbers engine. Thanks for sharing.
Very nice machine work. Detailed and precise. I enjoyed video.