The Kegworth Air Disaster | British Midland flight 92
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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On the 8th of January 1989, A Boing 737-400 from British Midlands Airways suffered a horrific accident after diversion to East Midlands Airport. This is the story about what happened on BMI flight 92.
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Links:
Kegworth Crash 1: @ meltontimes.co.uk
www.meltontimes.co.uk/images-...
DC9: @ aircharterservice.com
www.aircharterservice.com/air...
BAC 1-11: @ Phillip Capper
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_BA...
Shorts 360: @ Karsten Palt
www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/...
737-300: @ Dylan Ashe
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_...
British Midland 737-400: @ Aero Icarus
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...
37-400: @ Łukasz Golowanow
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Line Training: @ johanpercherin.info
www.johanpercherin.info/airli...
Donnington Hall: @ John Horner
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doningt...
Cabin: @ GETTY
media.cntraveler.com/photos/5...
737-300 Engine: @ wikimedia
www.aircraftnerds.com/2017/04...
CFM-56: @ David Monniaux
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_Int...
CFM56 Fan Blades: @ chaheng.com
www.chaheng.com/english/produc...
Crash Site: @ PA Archive/PA Images
www.nottinghampost.com/news/l...
Crash Site 2: @ PA Archive/PA Images
www.nottinghampost.com/news/l...
Crash Site 3: @ AAIB
AAIB Final Report 4/90
Crash Site 4: @ PA Archive/PA Images
www.nottinghampost.com/news/l...
Engine Wreckage: @ University of Bielefeld
www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publi...
CM56: @ cfmaeroengines.com
www.cfmaeroengines.com/wp-con...
Test Bed: @ calibration.aero
calibration.aero/aircraft-eng...
Pilots 1: @ GETTY
media.cntraveler.com/photos/5...
Pilots 2: @ flightglobal.com
d3lcr32v2pp4l1.cloudfront.net...
Brace: @ MATT DUNHAM/AP
bostonglobe-prod.cdn.arcpubli...
Camera 1: @ Manu Venkat / AirlineReporter
www.airlinereporter.com/wp-co...
Camera 2: @ FLIR Systems
www.flightglobal.com/defence/...
00:00 - Intro
01:08 - Chapter 1: Flight Overview
01:45 - Chapter 2: Upgrades
04:21 - Chapter 3: The Flight Crew
05:18 - Chapter 4: Difference Training
06:17 - Chapter 5: Takeoff
07:23 - Chapter 6: First Sign of Issues
09:40 - Chapter 7: Engine Number Two Fire?
11:31 - Chapter 8: Problem Solved?
12:05 - Chapter 9: A Call to The Company
12:47 - Chapter 10: The Customer is Always Right
14:13 - Chapter 11: Concerned Passengers
15:32 - Chapter 12: Increasing Workload
17:06 - Chapter 13: Situation Review
17:39 - Chapter 14: Final Vectors
18:54 - Chapter 15: Realisations
20:05 - Chapter 16: The Sum of All Fears
21:01 - Chapter 17: Investigations Begin
22:41 - Chapter 18: The Investigation: Vibrations and Smoke
24:27 - Chapter 19: The Investigation: Engine Testing Oversights
26:59 - Chapter 20: The Investigation: Crew Resource Management (CRM)
30:03 - Chapter 21: Lines of Communication
31:54 - Final Chapter: Camera Systems
32:39 - Outro
It's worth a note after all this time, that people on the motorway, stopped, arranged a human chain to help the walking wounded, protected the scene by using car headlights to create a stop line across the motor way and rounded up and deployed as many car fire extinguishers as they could find. The emergency crews were quite impressed by what the public had achieved by the time they arrived.
Impressive!
Yes the public carried out a vital role, in addition as the public on route to the Major Hospitals in Nottingham, Derbyshire and Leicestershire also helped clear the major Highways freeing up the police to carry out more vital rolls.
Didnt hear about this thanks for adding
It is awesome proactive thinking like that
Incredible.
@D close enough
I will just add I have seen many leaders freeze up at things like this
And just as many never led anything become a beast at it
Awesome what our body's can do in times like this
Me and a friend once pulled off a car door one two three off
At the time we just assumed that the car was weak after flying 30ft in the air 100 plus yards down the road
I was later shown the door and there was no weakness
Pure insane human resources that remain untapped untill fight or flight kicks in
I was one of the first people to arrive at the crash scene at 4 years old with my grandad. He left me in the camper while he boarded the wreckage and rescued some of the passengers and crew. He received a bravery award for it which is still on his living room wall.
I was also 4 years old at the time but remember it so well being local. Hats off to your grandad.
You grandpa’s a hero
@@SueP-D thank you! he sure is. Unfortunately he has Alzheimer’s now and and is cared for full time by my mum but he always went out of his way to help people in need and I have always seen him as a hero for that reason.
@@jaygill5795 Bless his heart and you & your mom, too. It sounds like you have a lovely family ☀️
@@tomkeane2629 you don’t forget seeing something like that. I was scared out of my wits sat alone in a camper for hours in the middle of a sea of blue lights at the side of the M1 right next to the plane
My friend was on this flght. He survived, but was only able to tell me the details years later. Trapped with broken bones, passing out repeatedly screaming in pain, covered in blood and vomit in total darkness and distress etc. Startling details of what it was like to survive a plane crash. He still has physical and mental scars. He was serving as a soldier in Northern Ireland at the time.
@@eddiestaunton514 OMG what an insensitive, horrible comment to make!
@@Jennygeee I actually agree :-)
@@Jennygeee better to vent and share someone's experience than to bottle it up and feel his pain too
@@Rainstalker I think the person I was replying to deleted his comment.
Your friend survived. I can't imagine his agony, but he survived. That is something.
Part of my standard passenger safety briefing in the aircraft I flew was to tell passengers to speak up if they saw, heard, smelled or felt anything they thought was unusual. On a couple occasions passengers did indeed point things out that they were unsure about. I have also summoned flight attendants to point out snow buildup on a wing prior to take off, just in case the pilots didn't realize it was happening. Be proactive in your own safety, it may save your life.
Very strange that none of the passengers spoke up , if i saw flames coming from one of the engines I would have a word with the crew , the purser if possible . Also strange that the captain did not ask a member of the cabin crew to take a look at both engines , especially as they had doubts about which engine was at fault
Use all resources. Very safety positive.
@@UserUser-ww2njif im on a plane in the middle of the fucking sky and i look over to see its on fire, im losing my absolute shit even the people on the ground would be able to hear me losing every single one of my marbles
@@3.cstasy In those circumstances most people would react in a similar way , the thing is to remember that most of not all multi engined planes can fly if they lose one
My thoughts too. This is the 2nd accident video I've seen where the passengers saw things that could've prevented disaster if communicated to the pilots.
Unlike current TV-productions, the lack of artificial drama is really refreshing.
And when combined with the depth of the technical information we have a truly top quality production!
"... the lack of artificial drama is really refreshing."
Spot on! Even in the most mundane situations, they have to write a script which says, "But there's a problem". Add to this, some C-grade actor who has to make it sound like a life-or-death situation when it's something utterly trivial.
television unfortunately seeks to brainwash rather than inform or entertain most of the time- hence me stopping paying the lcence fee 6 years ago
I did just watch an Air Crash Investigation episode about the Air Florida crash in the Potomac - I do appreciate the interviews with survivors.
truly. I hate it when what would be a 20 minute documentary is padded out to an hour, with sections repeated 4-6 times, spending more time on what the passengers had that day for lunch than why the plane went down.
I did report an unusual detail on a trans-Pacific flight. I noticed a fluid seeping out of an engine cowling near its front, and trailing all the way to the back of the cowling. I called cabin crew who listened to me in detail, they asked if I may be seeing water condensation and I replied that it looks like a heavy oil. Shortly later, the FO was leaning over me to see my view. The company engineering was contacted and they determined it was an overfilled oil reservoir that was venting excess oil out an its air vent. The cabin crew came back to thank me and explained what actions were taken. There were no further issues so the solution was probably correct. I think this was Delta.
I reported a flap track fairing that was missing on a flight home from Amsterdam. I was assured the captain was aware and that it was "in the book". Shortly after somebody came to look on a cherry picker. We flew home on the thing and I quickly understood how it came off landing at Coventry. They fly it into the ground HARD.
Well done!
i also noticed oil leak seeping all the way to back on the engine cover,,, informed,, FO came, saw,,, then went back to the cockpit and came back to me assuring everything about engine oil,, level pressure is ok so nothing to worry,,,
Did you also mention the vicious little creature tearing a hole in the wing?
Kudos to the cabin crewmember for choosing not to blow you off / patronize you. Well done.
My cousin was just starting out as a nurse and this happened in her first week, on her second day working at the hospital. She said that after seeing the injuries of some of the passengers, she thinks she can deal with anything life throws at her. Open and complex fractures, burns, blood everywhere and people screaming for their relatives who were dead. One man's eye was hanging out on his cheek. She said she expected more casualties as the staff were told it was a big plane that had crashed but then it really hit her that a lot of the passengers were dead.
I was on the M1 that night just south of Nottingham. We stopped to help. I will never forget that night. It's great now to know exactly what went wrong. So sorry for the loss of life that night.
The Captain involved honestly thought to his grave he had done everything he possibly could to save all onboard, He was destroyed by this accident was a wonderful guy just a horrible series of events.
Indeed.
RIP Kevin Hunt.
So why not get the purser to actually look out the window and check both engines?
@@Avgeek1564 Because all the indicators pointed to them having made the correct decision in shutting down the RHD engine.
@@-DC- RIP. And to all other victims of this crash.
I had started work as a radiographer at the Leicester Royal Infirmary in August 1988 not long before this crash in early 1989 . A lot of the passengers were brought to the LRI and some went to Nottingham. Many of the Injuries were really rather horrific such as traumatic amputations of extremities and complex open fractures. Also very serious head and abdominal injuries. The bruises are something I won’t ever forget many were massive but also very well delineated in odd shapes and patterns from striking certain objects in the plane.The passengers clothes were generally in a terrible mess also and many had friction burn marks on them from the clothes they wore and this also showed up as some odd patterns created by the texture and buttons zips of the clothes they wore. I I recall later being told that a lot of seats had failed and broken away causing the majority of the crush injuries.I think almost everyone I saw and radiographed had some limb damage. Later on we also sadly had to do X-rays on the bodies of the dead as well as parts of bodies to look for foreign objects such as pieces of metal from the crash to aid the investigation. Really a terrible tragedy and like many should never happened with better training. RIP to the victims.
that's tragic and awful at a human level, but fascinating from an aftermath perspective. We often hear about fatatlities vs survivors, but rarely about the injuries of those survivors. When you think how quickly it came to a stop on that embankment, the negative g-forces and decellerataion must have been massive. Hardly surprising. I work in aircraft maintenance and I remember finding out that a replacement part of of a tray table cost over $1200 and I thought "thats expensive - typical aviation" until and older engineer said "well, its rated to withstand 12g of deceleration in a crash..." and I thought fair enough. I suspect this crash was much much more than 12gs. Basically went from flying to an instant stop. So tragically avoidable.
The seat issue has come up in other accidents. I have cared for a couple of plane cash victims, it is one of the most difficult to deal with afterwards. In the moment you are the professional, but for some reason it lingers. I can still smell the jet fuel, and burnt flesh. I hope you have reprieve and thank you for caring.
Thank you for sharing, this kind of detail is never shared so hard to get a full picture. I hope you were supported during this traumatic time x
@@nicolapegg6429 I was supported by my coworkers they were great. We had follow up, 2 of the 3 passengers survived.
Dark..
Instead of accident reports moldering on a dusty shelf, Mentour Pilot makes these incidents avaialble to all.......im actually wondering if he should be nominated for a flight safety award?......such an important contribution.
As a commercial pilot of some 50 years, and an aircraft engineer, I want to say your commentary, analysis and explanations are very good. Thanks.
No doubt he is saving lives.
As a reader of comments made by pilots who are too aircraft engineer's, I want to say your comment about his commentary is very good. Thanks.
As a passenger, it has been so beneficial watching these videos to learn what incidents are like from the pilots' perspective. If I saw an engine sparking and then the captain started talking about a diversion, I would naturally assume he knew what the engines were doing and just misspoke which engine was misbehaving. This series has taught me to pay attention and sometimes the passengers will be in a position to see more of what's going on. Never be afraid to speak up.
Passengers can view the engines. Pilots cannot.
@@eltigre249 They should instal small cameras to watch the engines.
@@radomircvetic8207 I dont get why this hasnt been realized yet
@@zafert85 True, is it that expensive to put cameras or do engines also have to cope with privacy laws ?
@@radomircvetic8207 Some large airplanes have cameras installed in strategic places. A lot already provide these larger airplanes with some view of the engines. Unfortunately, other manufacturers have not determined that the benefits justifies the cost, especially on smaller aircraft. I believe Mentour has already done an episode where an off duty pilot came into the cockpit and showed the pilots how to view the cameras. Unfortunately, I cant remember what video it's in.
Somehow in all the talk about pilots' actions and left and right engines, one thing that's often forgotten about the Kegworth disaster is that it all started with a brand-new Boeing plane whose engines had been so inadequately engineered/tested that one developed fatigue cracks and failed catastrophically within a few months.
I mean, sure, pilots have to deal with engine failures, but even though they hadn't been given adequate training, maybe in time the pilots would've gotten to know the plane better and figured out for themselves key details like "the air conditioning is coming from the other engine now" and "the vibration indicator actually works" if the engine hadn't failed so soon after delivery.
Your right KISS: Keep it simple stupid
Boeing . 737 Max Anything come to mind ?
@@vp3970 FUBAR.
@@vp3970 I recognize that, but can't remember where I heard it.
@@paulnic7190 boeing doesn't make the engines, this is cfm internationals fault
I was travelling up the M1 when this accident happened and got stuck in the traffic jam it caused for hours, but it wasn't until I got home later that I found out what had happened. Seriously a sad series of events. I also remember an interview with the pilot afterwards and thinking at the time what a broken man he was.
i was on the M1 at the same time i got stopped about 1/2 mile from the scene ..
Most pilots I have met have a very strong sense of responsibility to the passengers they carry and losing half the passengers like this, especially with hindsight knowing they could have prevented it with a little extra time to troubleshoot, would be crushing.
@@douglasphillips1203 it's unimaginable how they must feel. Imagine knowing that by flicking the wrong switch (and theoretically having the information to pick the right one) you killed dozens of people. Accepting that and realizing that there were indeed training and procedural issues other than yourself to blame seems almost impossible. There's only so much psychiatrists can do, and I really hope the pilots could find some happiness in their lives afterwards. They happened to be some of those few unlucky guys for whom a small mistake in a stressful situation is life-changing.
I'm blown away with the experience and knowledge of this dude. And presented in a 2nd language amazingly. Wow
I thought he was Irish, no?
@@christinafacts444 swedish, i believe
@@christinafacts444 i agree there is a hint of irish in his accent, im not sure if that is typical for Swedish
Norwegian would be my guess...I know a Norwegian rally driver named Peter Solberg. But English is very easy to learn for Scandinavian, Dutch and German people. Close enough and very simple
@@Dilley_G45 I think it also helps that Scandinavians usually watch film and tv in original languages with subtitles so they know how the language should sound.
I just watched the analysis of this crash on the National Geograhic channel, before I watched this one. On a scale from one to ten, the NG analysis gets an 8; your analysis gets a 10. Your analysis is free from any sensationalism, it only touches upon what is pertinent to the problem at hand, and the way you put us all into the minds of the pilots is just very illuminating. Keep up the good work.
🎯
This was the first incident which had a new style of passenger seat that was designed to absorb force in an impact (14G comes to mind for some reason). It had curved legs/stanchions which would buckle less severely and more slowly but still produce resistance and avoid a total failure. Sort of like how the crumple zone in your car acts. Was credited with reducing casualties.
We even studied this case in Army flight school, as a discussion about not shutting down the good engine. This has unfortunately happened more than folks would expect, especially when u add in military aviation and general aviation.
I don’t think they would have “shut down the good engine” if they had any indication it was the good engine. “Just have hindsight, hardy-har”
@@fart63 There were. But its not always clear, especially if it happens quickly.
Great job! I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm a fan of the US Television Show "Air Disasters," and, like you, they work off of official reports and strive to get the facts absolutely perfect. You've covered some of the same incidents that they have... but when YOU do it, I end up understanding what happened and why so much more than from watching that show. NetFlix really needs to give you your own program!
Send them an email! 😊
@@MentourPilot You know what? I'm going to do just that.
Also, your videos don't stretch 28 minutes of information into 46 by repeating information over and over in the lead ins and lead outs to commercial breaks.
It’s not a US show it’s a Canadian show
Noooo…. Not unless he has full creative control. I’m so addicted to this channel. I hate flying but watching this channel I swear I feel like doing a career switch to commercial pilot 😂
This videos are always so good - better and more accurate than the overly dramatic documentaries on TV. Thank you for making these.
These is a different word than this
Good youtube content like this really is starting to reach the level of even the actually well made documentaries on TV, not just the history channel style nonsense. This sort of stuff is the best on youtube if you ask me. With production quality and good info like this I find I can watch stuff on any topic and it's great, I've been binging these and I've never had an interest in aircraft before.
@@behindthen0thing525 Wherever Izzie may come from: His or her English will be clearly better than you speaking his or her language!
Behindthen0thing grow the fu
These*
I love the concept of "poisee." It reminded me instantly of the classic movie "Apollo 13" when, after hearing nothing but a barrage of bad news and reports about his spacecraft 180,000 miles away, the Flight Director at Houston's Mission Control, gathered his team together and asked them, "Alright Gentlemen! What's GOOD about the spacecraft?" ...and at that moment in cinematic time, the "The Most Successful Failure" in the history of space flight became legendary!!!
Back in the 80’s I was a f/a for SWA. We had more ground time than usual at LAX and I was just hanging out in the aft entry door daydreaming. A 747 taxied by and I noticed the cargo door was open. I wandered up and mentioned it to my captain. The next thing you know the 747 stopped where it was, a truck came screaming up and ground crew closed the cargo door.
Always report anything you see even if you think surely somebody knows about this.
As you advise at the end of your excellent video: I was a passenger landing on an internal flight at Lagos, Nigeria. I looked out of my window and when the pilot applied the brakes, sparks and flames came out of the undercarriage brakes. As Lagos airport had some burnt out wrecked passenger aircraft parked next to the runway I thought it would be interesting to see if the pilot was interested, or if they just accept crashes and fires as routine. I waited till all the other passengers had disembarked and for the pilot to come out. I advised him of the sparks and flames and was very pleased indeed with his reaction. He was genuinely shocked. "This plane isn't going anywhere till that is fixed" he said - and I could see the blood drain from his face. Without being racist, I can honestly say I have never seen a brown man turn pale before. Apparently Shell Oil commissioned a survey to look at routine maintenance done on internal Nigerian airlines and could only find one "with any discernable form of routine maintenance".
Why am I not surprised.
Well done for taking the initiative!
Firstly, I think you will find that those burnt out aircraft are burnt out on a regular basis at various times (unannounced) during the month. The aircraft are there so that the fire brigade gets realistic training on the airfield.
However ............... I just happened to be at Ilorin Airport on 10 January 1987. Nigerian Airways had taken delivery of their DC10 and had to retrain crews onto the aircraft, 5N-ANR. I had parked up my EMB-110 and was waiting for my passenger before flying back to Kaduna. The DC10 was doing 'circuits and bumps' as the temperature rose. The pilots included the Fleet Captain and most of the Training Captains plus Training Engineers (you could not have a more experienced lot) were enjoying themselves.
With a heavy jet, it is (should be) standard practice to leave the undercarriage to cool in the airstream before raising it and going round for another practice landing. This they did not do and I made comment to my co-pilot. Meanwhile the fire truck was parked facing the runway and it's driver had settled, in a chair by the cab, slowly getting bored with the continuous activity. Eventually my passenger arrived and I was cleared to take off (behind yet another rolling take-off of the DC10). (Rolling - when the aircraft does not come to a full stop, taxi off and start again).
Later that evening the jungle drums brought us the news that the DC 10 had been written off. (There was an embargo on official news channels about things that go wrong in Nigeria). The following morning I took a flight to Lagos and 'accidentally' diverted over Ilorin to look at the site...... and take a couple of photographs of a perfectly etched plan of the DC 10 burnt into the ground. Just part of the tail remained.
Explanation:- When the aircraft came in for the final landing, because of the continuous absorbsion of the kinetic energy into the tyres and brake units during these circuits, the whole landing gear system was too hot to stop. The aircaft overran the runway and through the ILS. The fire brigade had fallen asleep in the sun so weren't aware of the overrun. The crew had to evacuate using the escape slide. No-one thought of taking off the cockpit fire extinguisher with them (too many cooks, chefs, sorry chiefs). The overheated brakes caught fire and this went up into the aircraft before there was any ground reaction.
Secondly, well done for speaking to the Captain. You now know why his face drained colour.
Nice initiative.
" I have never seen a brown man turn pale before"
You may have hit on a magnificent scientific discovery here.
It may be that white people are really brown people who are extremely frightened, all the time.
On top of that, brown people may be just black people who are only mildly frightened, all the time.🤣🤣🤣🤣
I joined a few merch and Patreon. It reps your app. I checked skillshare also. Thanks ?& you're welcome. Good luck.
This occurred on the M1 motorway East of the airport runway (East Midlands), west of Kegworth not the M11 as indicated. I remember the incident well as i lived in Leicester which isnt that far from the airport. One thing i dont understand and i know its only indirectly related to your well detailed report is the Kegworth compensation. A large sum of money was set aside for the passengers and victims families yet, a majority went to Kegworth residents who were not only unaware of the incident until it happened outside of their village but were also 100% unaffected. The general consensus at the time was 'stress' and 'fear for life' even though the plane crash was outside of the village boundary by a fair distance. The money should have gone to the passengers and families
This was only a month after Lockerbie. I can only surmise that the PTB assumed the incident would’ve had a similar effect. I doubt they actually asked anyone.
Yes it was M1, I was on the way from Leicester to Lancashire
It was the m1, I also live close to it and can remember it
I don’t know the layout of the area, but if a plane crashed just outside of the town I live in, yeah, I’d probably want the local airport to give me enough money to move to another city that doesn’t have planes crashing around it.
As there is an airport near where I live, when watching Mentour’s video earlier on the Concorde crash all I could think was, as someone who doesn’t like to fly, how absolutely pissed off id be to die in a plane crash when I wasn’t even on the plane.
So if a plane that was supposed to land here instead slammed into a mountain just outside town, yeah, I’d wanna move before the next one slammed into my apartment, and I could see having anxiety over having to continue living next to an airport that had things falling out of the sky around it.
Also, what incident were they supposed to be aware of before the plane crashed? I don’t believe the families of the victims were “aware of the incident” before it happened either… I’m pretty sure that’s not how time works?
@@TheOriginalCFA1979 no, my friend. That’s not it. The plane crashed into the m1. The m1 where it crashed is ALWAYS packed. Not only that, the A453 is the road next to it (sort of full) which is the road where passengers drive to the terminal. So, both of the roads will be hit. Luckily, the A453 wasn’t hit, as the plane hit the sign.
In addition to this, EMA departures and occasionally arrivals land over Donington Park. Had the plane been a few hundered meters off, it would have hit the park, the East mids Aeropark, spectators (if there was a race that weekend) and destroyed the village of Castle Donington- and the famous castle on top of it. It’s scary- very scary!
I think the implementation of external cameras with a view of the engines and maybe one that shows how the tail section is doing is a good idea, knowledge of how badly the tail area is damaged could help pilots in emergencies also
This is an area where Artificial Intelligence (AI) could add a lot of value - if the external camera view was being analysed by AI, it could a) alert the flight crew that looked unusual and b) allow a fast rewind to the start of footage that was anomalous.
@@tlangdon12Maybe but a simpler approach is probably safer.
@@Crabbadabba a simple approach would be cheaper and easier to implement.
Even a dirt cheap option is to tape a camera to the window seat looking at the engine. Not the best position for it but a lot better than nothing.
How did we make it past 2020 without cameras looking at the engines wings and tail?
Should be made mandatory for all commercial and passenger aircraft with more than 1 engine or more than 2 seats.
That would be another system that requires monitoring... In the event of a tyre explosion in your car, would you check the air pressure monitor, or rather focus on stopping asap? At the same time, would you also check your rear mirror?
Mentour
Love your channel and content
I'm retired crew, 20,000+ hours, 30 years airline, 10 years fast jet ex military
Your breakdown and methodical approach is amongst the best in the business
Please continue the excellent programs!
One thing I've learned from this video is to never be complacent when it comes to seeing suspicious events on an aircraft. I think it's common sense to tell someone that there is flames coming out of one of the engines. So many of those lives could've been saved had just a few things been done differently. So sad
Hmm the left engine is burning but the captain said we shut down the right engine. Its fineeeee
@EmreYey unfortunately it's easy to rationalize as "the pilot is the expert, they know better than I do"
I remember I was doing a practice airline sim training for my college. This is where they do a mock type course in this case for the CRJ. The sim we were flying had a lot of issues, and would glitch out every now and then. We were at cruise and the instructor(who was an alumni and current airline pilot) had stepped out to use the bathroom. All of a sudden about 5 or 6 warnings go off at the same time. All I saw on the warnings was left and right engine and red, and multiple other smaller failures, so I assumed we had a dual engine failure. I was the mock first officer so I told the captain this and that we should start the checklist, he starts pushing the airplane nose down to pick up speed for the restart, and I start running through the emergency checklist and start the APU so we can get power. Instructor comes back, “what are you guys doing?”. I tell him we had a dual engine failure and the sim has glitched out. He says “well first off you only have one engine gone, look at your right engine, it’s running fine! Go through the QRH for the failures”. It’s important to remember that quick decisions does not mean being impulsive. Take a good 5 seconds to read exactly what is going on and gather information before making a decision.
Making timely decisions is a very important part of pilot training. You need to collect enough information to make good decisions, but you must not spend so long doing so that a difficult situation turns into a dangerous one.
Perfect. Never assume anything. Slow down and think.
One of my high school art teachers (coincidentally, on a campus across the street from Boeing's Everett plant) said to us once, "Your first idea is not always your best idea."
These dials can be jerky, or at least appear so.
I have had trouble using them and I don't really want them again. These pilots didn't have much experience of how they can behave.
One reason for not using them is simply this: they take too long to give an accurate reading, another is that you can never be sure whether they will go up or down.
Just using them puts up your blood pressure.
Two questions: are there indications of fire? Is it severely damaged, ie you have indications of vibration, or a static N1 or N2 or blanks in gauges (separated)? Asking two very simple questions in your analysis forces you to ‘cage the chimp’ and use COGNITION, not gut, to assess the issue.
It’s NOT a time critical assessment, it needs to be right. There is nothing on a flight deck that can’t be made worse by a pilot.
Love that you made the call for passengers to share. There’s so much social bias to fight against in these situations, where we think someone else knows something so we don’t speak up. It’s always best to speak up, & this will stay with me in my future flights for sure. Great job, I love the technical breakdowns of these, I’ve watched many of the cinematic/emotional breakdowns of these accidents but I’ve always yearned for more of the technical diagnosis.
Also, if you speak up about something that's completely normal, most of the time the flight attendants will just nicely and calmly tell you that that's completely normal and still thank you for being concerned.
On several videos I see where pilots do NOT ask the flight attendants if anyone has SEEN any issues with engines or other equipment. Why not simply ASK? It was good you brought this up later in the video and yes cameras strategically placed to show problem areas like the engines, etc. Today cameras are small and inexpensive.
That has to be the most frustrating, almost infuriating prehistoric sized elephant in the room. I have always wondered that myself through the years while listening to or watching these horrible crash events. They would have to wrap an entire roll of duct tape around my mouth and head before they could shut me up unless the crew acknowledged they got the message.
Amazingly detailed description of the accident. Everything was spot on, however it wasn’t the M11, it was the M1 motorway that the aircraft bounced over. Other than that, an absolutely fantastic explanation of the incident. Thank you Petter
And as someone in the next village it didnt bounce over, it landed on the embankment, period.
Yep. I was on the M1 that day, total Chaos!
This really needs to be edited to say the M1. The M11 is a different motorway in a different part of the country.
@@davidjma7226 Strange how nothing was mentioned about the car,s that crashed on the motorway I was also on the M1 as this was happening and thankfully missed the carnage by about 30seconds. I remember listening on the car radio to the Horrendous traffic jams it caused.
It doesn't seem that long since this happened, can't believe it was over 30 years ago.
Llllpoopp
I discovered your channel two days ago and I'm binge-watching everything. Never thought I would be interested in aircrafts. Thank you for your work. We are learning a lot ❤
Just for information, the plural of Aircraft is Aircraft.
It's aircraft, not aircrafts
Same here, except I discovered it over a year ago and I still can't get enough!
I also recommend 74gear and Captain Joe.
Glad to see someone become interested in aviation. I also love his videos.
I was really curious about what happened to the pilots afterwards so I looked it up. They were both fired by the airline.
BM paid an out-of-court settlement for the First Officer for unfair dismissal.
Tough to spend the rest of your life knowing that you made such a significant mistake, even if it's an understandable mistake.
Manufacturers: Make faulty engine
Airline: Only trains pilots bare minimum of what is acceptable
Engine: Fails
Pilots: Do their best to save everyone
Airline: Nah it's all pilots fault let's fire them
Pilots: Bro wtf
I genuinely feel bad for them both, yes their mistake cost the lives of 47 ppl, but what is criticizing them suppose to u? They probably live with that guilt everyday and it isn’t fair.
@@tammymcinerney7153 It wasn't just the pilots' mistake: it was a series of mistakes along the entire chain from manufacturer through training all the way to the pilots. Arguably the most severe error was Boeing and CFMI deploying a clearly faulty engine.
“I killed people but it’s Mah dweam waaaaaah”
What an entitled spoiled brat. He should be scrubbing toilets to pay the families of the people he killed by being unable to do his job because he’s an entitled incapable manchild who no one ever said “no” to.
mentour's videos are the best, he knows exactly what he's talking about and you can tell he's an excellent pilot. I love how he makes his videos on average of 33 mins which is half the time of others, and that's because he doesn't give us any bs just knowledge. I'm shocked..he looks so young to know this much about planes. Excellent work mentour!!!
He's 40 and hß been flying for 20 years. Probably another 20.
I agree!❤
I'm coming from an amateur drone pilot's point of view who's been following these kinds of posts for a while. I can't remember how many times a catastrophe could have been avoided if only the pilots had 1st hand knowledge of what was actually going on with their plane. Some planes feature a tail view of the plane so the passengers can follow along. It's been numerous times when the passengers knew more than the pilots did when lives are on the line... how in the world does this make any sense to anyone? The camera is not an instrument but how can it not be a tool? I can only imagine how much work goes into preparing for such a post that only lasts 30 minutes... many, many, many thanks for sharing!
Thank you for watching. As mentioned in the video, the question about cameras was raised in the report.
@@MentourPilot I claim 74 years old amateur... sorry, I missed that. Any idea if cockpits today have access to cameras? God's speed and safe travels.
@@manfredseidler1531 Not a pilot, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. One of the Airbus models (320, I think) has a certain amount of this. Aimed at landing gear, if I remember a reference to another video correctly. But as a rule, there is no extensive or wide-spread availability of such systems.
@@manfredseidler1531 I know of a few commercial aircraft models that have external surveillance available to the cockpit crew - the 777, A380s and I think some A340s. They may only monitor the landing gear though... I can’t recall. It does seem like (at minimum) cameras that provide a view of the engines and landing gear would be very useful for any plane to have.
@@redmanish Also flaps and so on.
Two video's in two days. What a treat.
Very interesting story, thanks for you perspective.
In an earlier documentary I heard a passenger being sorry for not speaking up that he saw flames coming out of the left engine and was unhappy with the Captain's PA.
Sometimes speaking up as a passenger can actually save your life and that of others around you.
Absolutely, that’s a point I was trying to raise with this video.
"If u see something, say something"
But why no recommendation for Pilots to order pursers to have a look themselves at problems invisible from the cockpit, and then report their findings in the cockpit??? Now you just have to hope somebody speaks up....
TheNixie1972, you have no idea what apostrophes are for, hey?
@@Lozzie74 He might be using the apostrophe to denote missing letters, abbreviating "videotape". That's the excuse I'd use for such an error if I made it! ;-)
Cameras: Forward looking, rear mounted cameras, that show the wings and the Engines. Considering the cost of so many safety items on a plane, and the 'redundancy' ... you would think that cameras as I described above, would be 'standard-equipment' on ALL Planes. I flew as a passenger on an A-380, and was thrilled by the Rudder-mounted camera, that showed the entire plane, and all that was in front of it. I'm not sure if ALL Airbus planes have this camera, but the entire industry should.
I can't believe it either. There are some very nice external, fixed cameras on Amazon for about £40.00 each. They would show what's actually happening rather than the plots having to interpret what's happening through instrumentation.
@@peterhickey1218 Do you actually think that a £40 camera would do the job? extremes of pressure, thermal stress. mechanical stress, flight approvals, costs of fitting, possible redesign of part of the aircraft to fit it etc.etc. Nothings cheap in aviation,.
@@jackn4853 they’re not saying that airlines should use 40 dollar cameras from Amazon, they’re saying that it is not that difficult or expensive to implement cameras on a structure. Whether or not it is difficult or expensive doesn’t really matter anyway, since airlines should spare no expense to make their planes safer.
@@fart63 right, how many millions was the CEOs bonus this year? Im sure these airlines can figure out how to mount cameras, maybe not for $40 but its not gonna cost $40 million either
I was on holiday in Los Angeles when this catastrophe happened. I was sitting next to a aircraft engineer and we both were watching this on the news, and he said "They have shut down the wrong engine". He seemed to know that this was a "common" fault.
It is.
It’s common because pilots have literally no view of their engines without getting up and making the march down the plane to view them from passenger windows.
Let's hope these days they double and triple check what engine is actually not working. They could put that on a checklist
Remember the event vividly for two reasons. Firstly, so soon after the Lockerbie tragedy and secondly Captain Hunt's sister was my work colleague at the time. I think of the tragedy every time I drive by the location on M1
Prior to take off on a dreamliner a few years ago I noticed the rubber gasket sealing the window had extruded out on the exterior of the aircraft by about an inch beyond the exterior skin.
Pushed the call bell. Cabin crew came to see, then the first officer and then maintenance. Eventually maintenance passed the aircraft as safe to fly.
But safety is everyone's responsibility. If you see something, say something.
Hey, it's better to be wrong than dead...
Unfortunately David, 80% of the population walk around with their head up their arse 100% of the time.
@@neilfrasersmith he he he he . . . GREAT terminology ! 😀
I once contacted one of the cabin crew and asked them to inform the pilot that I'd seen some sort of black rubber pipe extruding from the underside of the wing that I could see from my window. The cabin crew member looked at me skeptically but she went to inform the pilot. A minute later she came back, quietly leaned down and told me that it was the refueling hose and that as we were still on the ground this was perfectly normal.
But I mean, better safe than sorry.
@@neilfrasersmith True! Although the percentages would be difficult to confirm, too many many of them post b****x on CZcams, fortunately only a few on this genuinely excellent channel.
As a photographer I put together slide presentations of this accident for the CAA, I also worked on the Lockerbie & Manchester disasters plus some other less publicised incidents. I was always amazed at some of the side stories often detailing heroic selfless acts of bravery. The cabin crew for this flight had gone through their retraining (annual?) only weeks earlier which I had photographed. One of the stewards was injured on impact and although he managed to crawl out, and despite the risk of fire, went back into the wreckage numerous times to cut passengers out with, would you believe, a plastic knife !!
Good work MP always interesting videos.
Hi. A quick FYI. As your explainations of events are always crystal clear. I thought I'd let you know that this accident wasn't on M11. It was on M1.
The video with reference to a incorrect QNH of 1011 sprang to mind.... :)
Aha! I was going to mention the M11/M1 confusion but scrolled down to see if it already been addressed, so thanks!
Edited for a typo.
1001 or 1011? :)
I thought that as well!! I was thinking M11?? It happened on the M1 !! It's a very rare error on this channel though!! In fact it's probably the first small detail error I've ever heard on this channel. It's that good and that correct, I was quite surprised!!
As I was watching, I too had the question of why there are not cameras so that cockpit crew can visually monitor the engines. You answered my question before I asked it, which is one of the reasons you channel is so good. I think it would be really good if this was implemented.
You can understand why they didn't have them in 1989, but there's no excuse not having cameras in 2023!
The A380 has a tail camera pointing forward (Well, Quantas does) and you can watch it in flight! Perhaps it also has other cameras available to the flight crew.
@@ajs41 well, there is one though. Electronics and especially cameras are very vulnerable to extreme temperatures like there are in high altitudes, but also on the ground when the plane is sitting on the ground for days and the sun is frying the sensor. You may notice, all of the actual plane electronics are inside the hull precisely to keep them safe from the outside conditions. Cameras are nasty because they are useless when hidden behind insulations, and if the insulation is transparent it won't help against the direct sun anyway. I can't imagine any camera surviving for longer than maybe a few weeks on the top of an airplane.
Not M11, it is the M1.
Thank you for this. I had a friend who was badly injured in this event. Thankfully he recovered. Others sadly were not so lucky.
Best description yet thank you. I live in Kegworth and saw her come down. The wife recalls the flames, for me it was the aircraft being head up and a horrendous 'clanking' coming from the stricken engine. May the Rest In Peace
I heard that a passenger did in fact tell one of the cabin crew that the number one engine was on fire and that this information was relayed back to the captain. However because the flight crew had decided what the problem was the passenger's words were ignored. I remember that story at the time because it added to the tragedy of the crash.
If the passenger took a photo of the engine fire and pass that photo to the pilot, maybe the pilot would believe him. Confirmation bias is hard to overcome.
@@xonx209 Yeah, except it happened in 1989.
@@bereny45 Unless he had a polaroid camera, which we did at the time. Not sure we ever took one on a flight though. Only 3 years later, in 1992, we had a video camera that could play back almost straight away, and we did take it on flights. Not sure if that model was available in 1989.
@@ajs41I can only imagine the quality of a Polaroid image on a moving plane, out of the window, in the dark.
Again so near yet so far and in so many ways!
I recall this disaster clearly and seeing the pictures in the morning papers was horrific, I still can’t imagine what it was like to survive and wait just wait strapped for help. As someone has mentioned many people were available and that did assist in getting many wounded away from the wreck so EMS could work quicker.
Gosh you delivered this report so very well.
Bob
England
Thank you for reaching out to the EASA for an actual answer on the camera systems rather than just stating an opinion as if it were fact. I’ve seen quite a few accident analysis on crashes where pilots were confused by engine readings and passengers could clearly see which engine was causing the problem. Normally someone shows up with an opinion as to why cameras aren’t on modern aircraft, but it’s never made sense to me especially when some carriers have added them to certain areas of the plane solely for passenger entertainment.
As you mentioned there have been a number of incidents where the passengers could see the problem, but the flight crew were never informed.
@@glennfletcher9699 Exactly. When things are clearly going wrong, one hesitates about distracting the cabin crew from their preparations. We assume the pilots know what we are seeing. And, they cannot see the engines. Just cannot. Cameras are an obvious answer.
There is an earlier video about a crash of an Eastern L1011 in 1972. At one point the flight engineer is sent down to the electronics bay to look through a peephole to see if the front gear is down and locked. But that was a new feature on a new aircraft, and he didn't realize that a) the pilot needed to switch on the landing light and b) there was a cover that had to be removed. He couldn't see anything.
Also, back then, TV cameras were much more bulky and prone to failure, so really just more to go wrong.
I'm not sure if I missed it, but did Petter ever get a response from EASA?
@@gregbailey45 They didn't need TV cameras. Just the regular handycams or similar types of cameras inside a protective case and connected with cables to a small screen. The first handycams were released in 1985 ( handycam is a Sony model name) by there were other companies that produced similar type of small cameras.
It is not the lack of technology that prevented the addition of cameras. They haven't add them after all after so many years.
I live 6 miles from East Midlands Airport and remember this like it was yesterday, I frequently drive past the accident site on the M1 and always give a thought to the victims and their families. Great video again
It always jumps to my mind as I pass that spot too
Yep, me too!
I'm on the maintenance side. Once a run/taxi examiner. Had a dc9 at the run pad pulling power to max take off when I felt what I had experienced on the 727, #2 engine run up (notorious), as a stall. Aircraft breaks are set but you feel a jolt forward which would make you feel like the breaks let loose for a second in conjunction with a bang sound. Started feeling the Aircraft vibrate and rock, pulled the #1 back to idle. Vibration continued so I cut fuel. That Aircraft rocked to the last rotation of the fan blades. 1 blade was determined to have cracked at the dove tail and let loose (jt8d). I wasn't in the air but I imagine just as scary, shaking afterwards. You don't want to go through that.
BrAkes
Thousands of Hours flying but you never know when it is your hour.
Thanks for all the pilots out there.
I read another comment by a pilot who said his instructor told him, "Of all the hours you've flown, the next hour is the most important."
@@ohdear2275 The legend Sully also said something along the lines of “you fly with no incidents for your whole career, and then your skill is judged on one incident”
@@fart63 Thank you for that. That's interesting.
It's just amazing what he did, isn't it?
As a frequent flyer with BM at the time I followed the investigation closely. There was a lot of speculation at the time that the engine vibration sensor wiring had been ‘crossed-over’ and caused the pilots to shut down the wrong engine. The wiring was checked on the crashed plane and on other 400 models still flying with no fault found.
The aircraft crashed only a few yards from level ground near the perimeter of the airport, which might have saved many. You could see the new fencing replaced on the motorway for years afterwards.
There was less traffic back then, but having driven that stretch thousands of times, I was amazed no one on the motorway died.
@@Diamondphobe while I live in Birmingham I have also seen that section a few times when in the Castle Donnington area or using East Midlands and even 30 years later I have never been able to fly into the airport via the R27 approach without this awfulness coming to mind, especially as the M1 and A453 whizz past beneath us just before touchdown. As a child I had only being flying commercially since 1984 and the 1/2/3 tragedies of the Manchester fire, the Pan - Am bombing and finallly the Kegworth crash haunted me on many flights during the late 80's . early 90's...
@@Diamondphobe I drove that road every other Sunday between 1986 and 1998. If it had been almost any Friday, and if it hadn't been the Sunday after New Year, it would have been a total disaster. It's almost inconceivable that there could be a major crash on the M1 at that time and nothing on the road was hit. But people had just had two weeks of holidays and tended to stay home for the following weekend.
The quality of these videos is much better that everything I saw on tv
@@cageordie I live in the area and if you are aware of the exect spot for many years afterward there was a very obvious shape of an aircrafts wings and box where it hit. It has grown out now but it was very visible for a very long time.
The quality of these videos, from the narrative to the production quality, is truly outstanding. Thank you.
I worked for Menasco Canada where we made the landing gear of planes but I never realized the significant of what the company was doing. I wish that they would have given us a class on how important the work was.
That was not the first time passangers knew something was wrong on the pilot's decisions but decided say nothing because "they are pilots and must know what they are doing". The crash of a boeing on the Amazon Forest in the 80's is another example. The pilot's input the wrong direction into de navigation system confusing the North 027 degrees with the west 270 degrees. Just after take off some passangers used to that route noticed they were going the wrong direction. After hours lost over the rain Forest the plane crashed for no fuel situation. Some of them survived and made a really heroic search for help trough Amazon Forest to finnaly find a Farm and get the help for them and for the others on the crash site. Many perished but the ones who survived are Grateful till now for the bravery of the two or tree guys who had the gut to self rescue on that extremelly dangerous situation.
And yet nobody was brave enough to tell the pilots that they couldn't navigate their way out of an airplane bathroom :/
@@unvergebeneid the airline added a decimal to the navigation chart. The first officer was lead to that mistake. Of course there is no excuse because they are navigating to the sunset direction and everyone is supposed to know that's the west. It's easy to say now the passangers should say something but who knows. I'm not sure i would do It. Maybe they were diverting to avoid bad weather. Anyway find help trough the rain Forest is not for everyone.
@@clairtonrompato3706 but surely the pilots themselves knew that they werent diverting for bad weather. And when they look out the window and see something completely wrong, that even passengers can see is the wrong way, the pilots should have figured it out. The need to have a basic understanding of where their route is taking them, if suddenly a rainforest appears that wasnt supposed to be there, its time to turn around immediately and retrace your route until you get signal again
@@clairtonrompato3706 I wasn't blaming the passengers. I was rather making the point that it takes more courage to speak up when everything seems normal than to trek through the jungle in a life-or-death situation. It's a peculiarity of human psychology that isn't good or bad, it's just fascinating.
@@unvergebeneid yeah. You are right. People seek for confort. Thats' why so many spend their hole life in the same job, or spend two ours on a airport lobby to make a 30 minute travel on an airplane.
Just looking at that wreckage, I am actually surprised that casualties were not higher.
I thought that too.
People were brutally killed in this crash some heads were severed off the bodies
One bonus was that it came to rest on a steep slope, so the leaking fuel ran away from the hot engines and did not ignite. Even the bodies of those who had died in the impact provided useful information for future designs and procedures, as they were not burnt.
Amazingly no cars on the M1 ran into the wreckage.
@@johngoldsmith4844 liquid jet fuel has funny properties it doesn’t set fire in liquid form only in vapours so I think the passengers would be safe
@@ospreyaviation1109 Agreed, but most aircraft crashes result in fuel fires - probably because hot engine parts fall into the leaked fuel.
Mentour,for such a relatively simple looking error,there was nothing simple about it.
Your description of this incident is outstanding here.
This was an exhausting video to sit through simply because of the massive amount of detail you included here.
Great work by you and your crew.
Much respect for the captain and crew of Flight 92.
They did the best they could, at the time, and did save alot of passengers and crew on that jet.
Dern,if they had simply let the engines stay at partial power they might have made it to landing.
But easy for me to say,I fly a keyboard.
Great video examination of a heart breaking accident.
That's good to encourage passengers to speak up about an issue and hopefully the cabin crew wouldn't outright dismiss you if you did so.
Remember that Hawaii Airline flight where the top of the fuselage broke off in mid flight? Well, one of the passengers who had been boarding had noticed a big crack in the fuselage but didn't feel she could speak up about it. (I'm also not sure why the pilots didn't notice that crack during their walk around but that's another issue)
I think this is still such a relevant accident. Having an engine fault in a testing or training environment is worlds apart from the same event on a brand new aircraft type with new instrumentation in passenger service. What a terrible situation this must have been for the flight crew.
I remember this incident well for a number of reasons - I was a active skydiver at the time and knew many pilots that flew for our club, building their twin hours toward a CPL. They had knowledge of this incident from their peers, and were concerned at the time about the procedures. One of my skydiving colleagues at the time was a junior doctor at the Good Hope hospital at Sutton Coldfield that received many of the injured from the incident. He described the lower leg injuries that he had to treat with the old crash position and it was modified to have passengers fold their legs back under the seats to reduce the vertical impact shock. The descending aircraft passed so close to a backup data centre location at Kegworth that it was relocated away from the approach path to EMA to the west of the M6 at the same level. There were miraculously no automobile injuries from the aircraft striking the M1 (not M11).
It was a tragic loss of life, but many lessons were learned.
A very good and detailed explanation of the events that day. Well done.
I'm not a pilot. Never even played flight simulator. But, this guy is absolutely amazing at what he does. I hate stories yet I hang on his every word... Nice job...truly the best!
I've tried flight sims in the past and they are good fun. They give you a good insight of how hard flying actually is. However eventually I get bored after a while and my inner 10 year old comes out and I just crash the planes.
Thank you for your service
My father was a flight instructor all his adult life. He died from natural causes 27 years ago, but I still remember some things about flying from him. He told me the safest place to sit is over the wing, or in front of it. Seeing the crash picture in this video makes me feel pretty good about that advice. If there are any pilots here to wish to come in, to either confirm or deny, feel free.
It depends entirely on the crash. If you’re in a burning plane with lots of fuel on board still, sitting on top of the fuel tanks definitely isn’t the safest place. I’ve heard crash *investigators* say that, basically, if you look at any one crash, you can find a “safest” place to have been sitting, however there’s no singular safest place if you don’t know the future.
Statistically I believe the tail actually has the highest survival chance when you look at gross crash statistics, there was a WWII Gunner who survived falling from bombing altitude in a detached tail. But again, it depends on the circumstances of the crash, and the plane(s) involved.
@@TheOriginalCFA1979 I remember hearing that military passenger aircraft have the seats facing back as it's safer, and that the safest place is near the tail. Can't remember where I learned this though.
Safest place on a plane depends on the plane and what exactly you need to be safe from.
In terms of structural integrity over the wings is the strongest point in the aircraft, as its built to withstand landing forces and the wing root in general must be pretty strong to support the weight of the aircraft in flight. However, it is also the worst place from a fire perspective, as thats where all the fuel is, in the wings and between the wings. So it does very much depend on how your crash and how much fuel is on-board.
@@jumpingjohnflash I have heard he exact same, the safest place for the most part, is as far to the back of the plane as you can
I remember this accident when it happened. The Captain took a lot of flak, if I remember correctly, very unfair given the most unusual circumstances. Lack of adequate training fir the type and the quirks of early automation were clearly the culprits. This is the best review of this dreadful accident that I’ve ever heard.
Read the AAIB report before making such strong statements. It paints a picture very different from the one which entered the public domain.
@@hb1338 Official reports are notorious for bias and whitewash. The flight crew were scapegoats.
What a waste..
Thats exactly why I want to have cameras on all automated or remote controlled processes: "blind" sensors will provide you with bits and bytes, but the Interpretation is up to you. A camera shows the naked truth.
Thanks so much for another great video, well done!!
Thank you for watching. I
I am starting to agree with that point.
Given how bulky even the smallest cameras were back then, I can understand why they weren't used. But considering that you can get full HD from a camera the size of a button, there isn't much excuse not to these days.
And not only that, but adding a second thermal imaging camera would cost peanuts compared to the price of even the cheapest aircraft.
I've made this exact same comment on so many disaster videos...
Yes, also cameras in the cockpit instead of a simple CVR and and make the beacon on the FDR and CVR last longer than 30 days!!! All simple, easily implementable changes that would make the work of air crash investigators 1000 times easier!!! Every time I hear of an aircrash in water, the experts say "we have beacons that can last 6 months but they haven't been implemented yet" WHY NOT??!! So discouraging!
@@malcolm5514 Cause every change in aviation-related technology cries for a recertification. Takes time, takes money. To be honest, I don't think that I would be happy if there would be a camera in the cockpit recording me during my work. I would feel uneasy... that could lead to wrong or overcautionous decisions. Just some cameras around the outside of the plane and the places inside, where nobody can have quick access to, like the cargo hold or the avionics-bay (if there is one).
As a passenger, I appreciate your videos as it gives me faith in the industry and helps me know that this information is/could be useful to the pilot and crew.
Dear friend, ive been watching your videos for some time now. I couldnt thank u enough for the good job youre doing. For all of us who really enjoy aviation but would never closer to a cockpit than being a pax ourselves, this is pure Gold.
Please keep up with the good work.
Greetings from Uruguay
The scary thing about this accident is that I can easily imagine being the pilots who made the mistakes. I can imagine their thought processes and empathise with them.
True for all of Mentour's recountings, which is what i love best about them
Some accidents you really question the sanity of the pilots and the risks they are taking, but those guys called mayday early, didn't lie to air control, decided right away to land on a nearby airport and didn't do crazy dangerous things like landing with no visibility or while disabling safety features.
Just one point I picked up, as a local to East Midlands, it isn't the M11, it's the M1 motorway that passes the airport. This has been widened since the crash and all traces of the crash site removed, although the memorial is still in place.
I noticed that as well. Another very minor mistake with the video is that it would have been completely dark during the entire flight including take-off at Heathrow, because it was 8th January and 7:52pm.
@@ajs41 exactly. Whether that hindered any of the recovery and emergency services its impossible to say.
I keep seeing the same accidents over and over on different channels. But when Mentour Pilot is through, I understand completely. Both mechanical explanations and human beings experiences are given just the right amount of detail. 😎
As an infrequent passenger, thank you for your channel. It honestly baffles me on why I and so many others are interested in topics like this. But finding someone with actual experience and expertise to put these incidents in proper context has actually made me feel safer.
But as someone who lives next to an airport… it’s made me think a little more. 👀
But I’ve lived next to an airport literally my entire life in two different cities and I’ve never witnessed a plane crash. I’m 25, so there’s that. And it’s really cool to see the big airplanes land/takeoff if you happen to be at the right red light.
A school friend of mine lived at the end of an almost unused airport which mainly served as an emergency backup for Paris and London airports (it had an unusually long and robust runway making it suitable for any aircraft at the time). One day he got home from school to find his mum packing up the house. A couple of months later I visited them at their new house and his mum told me about how she'd been in the garden at the old house, hanging out the washing, when a large plane came in to land. It came in so low it bent the aerial on their roof. She went in and immediately started packing. I don't blame her. They'd lived there over 10 years and see a lot of emergency landing, but that one was too much for her.
I live in Denver, with two of the busiest airports in the country, and right next to an AFB. never seen anything personally, and have only heard of one mayday (plane lost the cowling of the right engine.). I honestly think the interest is a morbid curiosity (knowing bad things happened) mixed with a wonder of why.
I saw an engine fire and told the FA. She said the pilot must know. But I insisted she tell him and shortly after the flames went out. I feel like I may have helped save us all on the flight. My conscience feels secure. What if she did not tell pilots?
From my uninformed perspective, a maxed out vibration meter would warrant a visual warning indication requiring dismissal (say, a changing background to then a yellow outline once dismissed). Did the instrumentation on that airplane call attention to this abnormal parameter? Seems like it would have helped in the decision making if it had.
Regardless, this is such an unfortunate result. I'm glad aviation has learned from it, though I can only wish it wasn't without this loss of life.
The final report agreed with what you said and it was one of the 31 recommendations that came out of this accident.
Another thing about the newer instrumentation: the video shows the LED dial markers moving in a counter-clockwise direction across the bottom of the dial for increased readings, that is left-to-right. This is, with respect to the intuitive reading of the dial, ambiguous. We are accustomed to left-to-right movement associated with an increase, but we are also accustomed to seeing counter-clockwise motion as associated with a decrease. With regard to the intuitive readings that a pilot would take during a quick scan of the instruments under stress, such a format would be sending mixed messages.
Agreed: total UI failure. Make the background RED. Make it flash every few seconds. Grrr.
I remember seeing this on the news as we were in Nottingham at the time. My dad also realised very quickly that he needed to go into work and he would be there for a while - being an orthopaedic surgeon. They changed the brace position because of that crash and how many broken limbs they got. They even had to drive more external fixators (the mecano like cage to hold bone in place) from the warehouse because they almost ran out! It's lucky that they did have so many survive - the airport emergency services getting there so quickly made a big difference.
I'm glad they found the problem and improved it, and RIP and my condolences to any crash victims, so terrifying.
Interested in finding out whether EASA ever got back to you with an answer regarding the outboard cameras being fitted?
i thought i was the only one wondering about this respite it being already so long since the video was posted
@@CristianDF I never go to comments on youtube videos but I also am down here digging through the armchair pilots' criticism' trying to find a highlighted comment from the uploader 😂
Yeah, I am curious too.
It's a European bureaucracy. They never got back to him and never will unless pressured.
@@jimmydesouza4375 you say that like that isn’t every bureaucracy
By far the most detailed analysis of this incident. I remember most TV reports at the time just blamed the pilots for shutting down the wrong engine. As usual, things aren't quite so simple.
I remember this accident vividly and now live about 20 miles south of where it happened. It still gives me the willies every time I drive up and down the M1 (not M11 as per narration) past the crash site, especially if there's a plane passing low over the motorway to land.
RIP to all those killed and I do feel sorry for the flight crew given the circumstances.
Being the granddaughter and niece of three pilots (there were more in my grandfather's extended family as well), I really appreciate the technical breakdown of these videos. I've had a fascination with aircraft and aerodynamics since going on several flights with my grandparents when I was a child, so these types of videos are right up my alley.
Just and FYI, when I tried the Curiosity Stream link and got to the checkout screen, my annual cost with the coupon code was around $52 and change.
When things start happening really quickly, it's often a bad sign..
as a passenger, what I've learnt from this video is to always speak up if we spot any inconsistencies with what the pilot is saying and what we see. learnt that pilots cannot actually see the engines, so as passengers, if we see the left engine is sparking but pilots are saying its the right, speak up and tell the air stewardess. Everyone as a part to play.
The fact they were so close to EMA was a mixed blessing, the descent, approach and frequency changes were compressed into a short timeframe just increasing the workload, the distractions preventing them evaluating everything came thick and fast
If they were further away from a safe to land airport maybe they would find out the truth about engine 1 being the one which is causing problems at a higher altitude and they would have come off easy
I agree. If you think about it, if this had occurred at a moderate distance from a suitable airport it probably wouldn't have happened. They'd have been doing an MCT drift down on the bad engine which would probably have come apart pretty rapidly, rather than idle descent to get down to EGNX with it then failing on the approach once thrust was required. A relight from say 20K would have been very doable whereas from 900' was realistically a no hoper.
There is a reason in modern times we hear a lot of requests for holding patterns.
They give you alitude and distance. And you aim to remain in a safe place for your glide slope before you mess with your systems. Fly, evaluate then communicate.
Lessons learned. Don't pester the pilots
Once the A/C commenced its descent, both thrust levers would have been closed until they levelled off to configure for final approach. Levelling at say 6000ft in the hold adjacent to EMA, for a final review, would clearly have given them time to realise their mistake and correct it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing don’t you think.
@@glenmcgillivray4707 "Don't pester the pilots" - unless you can see something they can't ....
Sometimes simply looking out a window can save a lot of time and mistakes. Pity they had'nt asked the cabin crew for a visual.
Still, it's too easy to sit here and judge in hindsight. Terrible accident !
Thankyou very much for your account of this tragedy. I was (and still am) a truck driver and that day my journey took an extra 9 hours despite diverting. One very minor point to pick up on if I may - East Midlands Airport is by the M1 (one) motorway, not the M11. For clarity, the M11 (eleven) runs close to Stansted Airport. This is such a minor thing that anyone who knows UK road networks may not even notice it, but I am sure you'll agree with your eye for absolute precision that it could confuse other viewers, with unknown consequences! Very easily done though.
I remember this happening and it's always been my opinion that the Pilots were treated very badly and made scapegoats because i thought there was something not right with the systems on the 737-400. Given the problems with the 737-MAX, this opinion this only strengthened. I know the area and it's always stuck with me about how close they were to the runway and had they had just a few more seconds, they could have landed safely.
Absolutely. The aircraft instruments should be much clearer about which engine has a fault. It should not be guesswork under pressure. It's very easy to be 20:20 in hindsight months after reviewing the info with no time constraints.
@@Arctic_Fox_NFFC One of the TV documentaries about this incident mentioned that. They also included that the investigating agency recommended changing the indicators to be more clear on that matter.
This was one of the ones that didn't so much have re-enactments as "we don't want to pay for CGI, so just film someone in a simulator hesitating or frantically using the controls." I don't recall any artificial drama, so it must've been one of the better ones. Heck if I remember the name, though!
I have always believed that it was quite unjust that the two pilots were unceremoniously sacked by British Midland CEO Bishop. He appeared more concerned about his company's damaged safety record than their welfare, but of course, it was just weeks after the PanAm 747 Lockerbie bombing disaster, still looming large in the public eye and mind. Both 737 pilots were seriously hurt and after a considerable time recovering from their injuries, I believe at least one if not both returned to piloting. I have read that following the crash investigation, recommendations were made to strengthen the passenger floor of Boeing 737s because it was found that on impact passenger seats had broken through, and that had possibly contributed to serious injuries and deaths.
At that time, I used the M1 regularly (not M11 as described in the CZcams video), but after the crash, it was closed in both directions for seven days. Fortunately, traffic on the motorway had been light and no road vehicles were involved, despite the plane crossing both carriageways. The scar left on the motorway embankment by the crash remained for some time but was later removed by the remodelling of the M1 East Midland exits. The video pointed out the failure of passengers and cabin crew alike, who did not report the obvious engine fire, which at least someone must have noticed. In hindsight, reporting the incident might have saved the day. As a regular domestic passenger during the 1980s, usually from Birmingham, variously to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dublin, or Belfast, I always remained aware of each flight, not out of fear, but simply because I am an aeroplane nut. On one occasion aboard a British Airways BAC111 from Birmingham to Glasgow, I noticed a British Midland DC9 that seemed to be at the same flight level and slowly edging towards us. I pointed it out to the purser, who agreed to 'have a word with the Captain'. Within a minute to two, our BAC111 climbed steeply to a higher flight level, and during his pre-descent announcement over Carlisle, he reassured us all that the two aircraft were 1000 feet apart. On arrival, the charming lady purser pointed to the BM DC9, which was by now parked alongside our BAC111. I believe that transponders would have flagged up any danger eventually, but I have often wondered what might have happened if I had failed to raise the matter.
@@Arctic_Fox_NFFC You are working on the assumption that automated systems can decide that an engine is faulty. In a world where false negatives and false positives are highly undesirable, that's a big assumption.
@@CiaranMaxwell Seconds From Disaster most likely.
Really cranking out the awesome content this week, Petter.
Thank you! We are trying our best!
When you mentioned the recommendation for cameras my first thought was that it was technically unnecessary, since there should be more than enough sensors to provide the same or even better information than visuals could, for most situations. However, redundancy is never a bad thing, and this would also have helped in other scenarios. Remember the video where a plane had the wheel stuck in a 90° angle? They did a close flyby to the tower and had a helicopter confirm the position. None of that would have been necessary if they simply had a camera. This could also save time accordingly, which you dont always have. But considering all the things that can go wrong with purely visual feedback, the placement of the cameras would need to be chosen very carefully. There is just so many non-obvious things that might obstruct view, like the wheels, smoke, gear doors, heck even cargo doors, because who knows what might happen.
Do you know if we ever got an answer on why that hasn't been implemented?
@@mustang8258 I had the same question
I dont get this system of adding some dozen recommendations after each air crash. As if the same circumstances are going to get repeated in the next emergency situation. So much extra work load is put on the pilots. For example, in this crash, the captain was trying to solve the issue at hand, when he was interrupted by air traffic control and he never returned to problem solving. Imagine flying with 100s of items on various check lists.
@@indianfan1029 It works tho? Travel by air is the safest form of travel we have. Simply for the fact that we avoid making the same mistake twice. It's not like pilots need to memorize it all, if the workloads gets too high, that's an issue that addressed aswell. The checklists exists so you dont forget something. You are expected to memorize the most important points (like turning off the effected engine in a fire scenario), and then once the situation allows for it, you can make sure you didnt forget the other somewhat important things.
I gasped out loud when you finally revealed the images of the aircraft post-impact, and again when you indicated how many had survived. The only reason I expected *any* survivors from that mess was the fact that you'd mentioned smells and passenger interviews and such - things that voice and data recorders have trouble capturing.
One almost wonders if it wouldn't be advisable for planes on a single engine to do their landing approach while maintaining the ability to perform a glide landing. You know something's wrong with that plane if it's down to one engine, you can't be 100% sure what it is until the maintenance crews have gotten a chance to take a look, therefore I would argue (in perhaps excessive levels of paranoia) that the engine that remains should not be considered 100% reliable. For the vast majority of single-engine landings, this is unwarranted paranoia, but that might just make the difference in disasters like these. As you mentioned, the pilots did their best to glide the last bit when the engine failed and were only a kilometre out from the runway.
(Of course, I'm arguing this in complete ignorance of how difficult that might be. It's entirely possible that glide-landings are landings that border on a dangerously steep descent to the point where it's preferable to avoid a landing like that if there's any chance of a powered landing still on the table. And I know single engine failures are a heck of a lot more common than double engine failures (even if you count accidents like this where the failure of one engine was simply having been identified as the problem engine incorrectly), so if glide-safe landings are potentially risky, then making those approaches with single engine failure craft would increase the odds of things going wrong. It's very easy for me with my complete lack of appropriate training to make suggestions, this doesn't mean they're *good* suggestions.)
Amazing video as always. Every time a new video from you pops out I quit doing what I’m doing and start watching immediately. :P
Aww! That’s great to hear!
This is the most fantastic channel! His way of explaining things in such simple terms really is great. I can not believe though that 32 years later they haven't introduced mandatory cameras on the outside of outside of all commercial aircraft that would have saved every single one of the lives lost in this tragedy.
If Tesla can put them on cars and rockets, why can't the aviation industry. I mean 4k cameras are no bigger than a match box. Not only for real time trouble shooting for the crew, but the value they'd add to post crash investigations.
If you see something, say something. I was on the way to Atlanta GA. I told the FA #3 engine was on fire. She said oh the pilot knows. I QUIETLY asked her to tell him just in case he doesn't know.I didnt scare the passengers but shortly after the flame was extinguished and we landed safely. I still don't know if he had indication in the cockpit or not. I just knew it was not normal and most people were asleep. I never sleep on flights always checking ailerons, flaps, a way out if necessary.just slightly paranoid cautious rather.
I find these presentations really interesting - just one thing on this one - it was the M1 motorway, the M11 is quite a few miles away to the south and east. My friend was in this crash and he has never flown since, such was the effect it had in him.
Another minor mistake is that it would have been totally dark for the entire flight, since it was 7:50pm on 8th January.
Excellent video! Really enjoy and appreciate the pilot's perspective you bring to crash investigation videos. That is so missing in other videos...and is so important! Also love Curiosity Stream - signed up with your link months ago and have been really enjoying it!
I remember this well and turned off the M1 at the time of the crash just a few miles North of the airport. I only found out from a news flash when I got home 30 minutes later. Very sad.
Peter
I’m so happy and proud of you for being an exceptional Pilot , training pilot and now extraordinary educator of aviation for pilots in training and the public
You’re amazing
Please continue
Bravo 👏
i've said this so many times ... it boggles my mind why every aircraft doesnt have cameras looking at each engine and wing for pilots to check on at any point... these kinds of accidents would potentially end much better if cockpit crew had direct view to engines for troubleshooting ... edit: just saw the rest of the video and heard you mention it also -- any response on it?
Airlines and companies don’t like to spend money. Pilots don’t always have the best tools for their job.
If it was as simple as "cameras save lives," I think it would be a done deal. I have nothing to do with the airline industry, but a lot of logistical questions come to my mind. How many cameras, and pointed at what? Where would the monitors be placed in a cockpit already packed with instruments and controls? If there is limited area for screens and/or the views have to be switched in order to see all of them, how much accurate visual information could pilots get in the limited time they have to look at them? How much would viewing screens increase their workload, especially in an emergency? Can camera lenses be kept reliably clean and clear of dirt and moisture on the outside of an airplane? If they're mandated, is it feasible to retrofit existing fleets? To be sure, you could find several clear-cut cases, like this one, where cameras would have saved many lives. But, if they were an unreliable, maybe they would be ignored like those vibration gauges were. Or maybe if they were a distraction, they might cost lives. It doesn't seem like it's just a clear and simple answer to me.
@@waldocreed 2 cameras pointed at front of each engine and 2 at back of each engine. a screen that is fitted with selector switch and placed adjacent to the seat like in business class. or just install the screen at hostess station asking for check and update.
@@sweetcarbine What about the landing gear? What about the trail section? What about... etc, etc, etc... I'm just thinking that a handful of armchair quarterbacks (myself included) commenting on CZcams videos are not going to solve this problem. It's real easy for us to come up with hypothetical solutions when we have no real world experience with this stuff.
@@waldocreed so your idea is not do something for this problem because it won't solve a separate problem. I have a Phd in science and I have run 300 million dollar production plants while being responsible for everyone's safety. I am aware of what process safety is about and how you do risk vs cost analysis.
This guy is fantastic at explaining what happened to the non pilot
These should be put on TV. Absolutely Fantastic!
It has been on tv. One of the air crash investigation episodes on national geographic
@@rabartels doesn't explain it as well as this tho
I was very interested in this video because I was flying the B737-300 (first 'glass-cockpit' version before and after this crash.
Your video brought out several facts which I had not appreciated before.
In fact soon after, but before the report I did a private simulator check with the Chief Pilot of British Midland at their simulator at Coalville Industrial estate to re-new my type rating prior to taking a contract overseas.
On our version of the B737-300 we did have vibration indicators.
I really like the comments on how pilot training has improved as a result of these investigations - it is most important to get that across in the professional pilot community that the purpose of accident investigation is to improve aviation safety, not to apportion blame.
You make us feel like junior pilots during your videos. It shares a deep appreciation for the complexities and nuances of the industry. Thank you.
Did EASA get back to you?